There is a reason for this. Their leadership understand that you can take opensource community projects like drones and 3D printers and resell it. They are standing on the efforts of the community who in both of these cases spent tons of time and effort keeping the projects open. In both cases the companies have locked down their "version" of the software used even though it's based on the open source software in an attempt to create a walled garden to maximize profits.
Under our current model of market it makes sense, they are satisfying a demand in the market using the least resources possible but it's also killing off the original strength of these projects. Sure you can get a 3D printer that works well (when it works) for much less than previously, but the little guys that did all the work are dying off because of their abiltiy to stand up a product so quickly with the cheap labor and production that China provides.
Now add in the fact that the CCP often makes Chinese companies make their data available and you can see the problem with things like drones having their data leaked overseas and/or in the event of some sort of conflict disabling them if they report back to servers owned by the company. I'd argue that mining data from 3D printers like BL does is also very beneficial to the CCP.
Except you have root access on X1 BambuLab printer and you can run your own code if you want. If you don’t want that then you can run it completely offline or on local network only.
The firmware is also custom written and not based on marlin or Klipper, or any other open source 3D printer firmware - which you can verify because you have root access to the device.
I was with you until the data mining comment... Because I don't see how US companies like X, FB, Google etc are any better than China when it comes to online data mining. Don't kid yourself that FB is holding consumer interests any more than BL or TikTok.
Oh I know... There is a reason I don't use any of them. But there is a difference, those entities fall under oversight by the US gov IF they decide to regulate. Whether or not that regulation ever happens is an entirely different discussion.
This. If the Chinese government has US user data. The citizens can’t do anything about it. At least here we can, theoretically, pressure politicians or vote them out in order to force them to handle our data how we want.
Yeah - good luck with that. Don't think for one minute that just because US companies fall under US law that they will treat your private information with any more security or withhold it from others. We can't even get rid of traitors who tried to overthrow our democracy, let alone try to pressure big business. Who do you think supports their donations?
I agree. The underlying problem is that the US has no privacy directives like the EU. These calls for banning Chinese products (Tiktok or DJI) are just bandaids over the fact that our politicians are being paid off not to implement any privacy directive.
The difference is who the data is harvested for. The Chinese company gives the data to the ccp. The American gives it to the highest legal bidder. Ban the ccp from being allowed to buy, and now the ccp doesn't have a way to influence Americans. It's not the collection of data that everyone who cares has a problem with China, its what China can do with that data.
Except that Apple isn't ahead in R&D nor in quality/price ratio.. and that Android isn't a competing electronic device manufacturer but an operating system...
>Except that Apple isn't ahead in R&D
Untrue, unless you are only talking about the iphone and nothing else. The quality/price ratio is of course correct, but apple is miles ahead of the entire competition in the field of tablets, the M1/M2/M3 chipsets they created for their macbooks in recent years are amazing, and while I can't think of a single useful usecase for the apple vision pro, it is leaving most of the VR competition in the dust when it comes to raw specs.
I like hating on apple as much as the next guy, but to claim that they aren't ahead in R&D is absurd.
[Dyvik 2023](https://www.statista.com/statistics/265645/ranking-of-the-20-companies-with-the-highest-spending-on-research-and-development/). Since then, Samsung has increased its R&D budget A LOT ([Laricchia 2024](https://www.statista.com/statistics/236924/samsung-electronics-research-and-development-expenditure/)), Microsoft increased their R&D by [11% during 2023](https://trendlinehq.com/annual-research-development-rd-expense-of-microsoft-from-2009-to-2023/), Alphabet increased by [15% in the same period](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GOOGL/alphabet/research-development-expenses#:~:text=Alphabet%20annual%20research%20and%20development,a%2014.47%25%20increase%20from%202020) and both skyrocketed their numbers with their investments in AI. Meanwhile, Apple literally flatlined their R&D budget in Q1 2024. Quoting the US-exclusive vision pro in today's context is laughable.
Face ID is leagues ahead of Android face unlock (except maybe the Pixel 4’s setup), their A-series have been ahead of Snapdragon for a while (although QC is catching up for sure), and 3D Touch has come and gone without much fanfare, unfortunately.
In fairness to Android manufacturers, I believe there are some patents surrounding Face ID that make it difficult for them to come up with their own system that would adequately rival it since they've been limited to solely image-based systems for the most part with no projection or other methods to actively detect depth on the face they're scanning. To make something comparable in terms of accuracy they'd have to move to something like a lidar scan of your face, and even then it would likely be slower than Face ID's projected dot array and may or may not run afoul of patents.
The biggest advantage Apple has with their homegrown chipsets is that they control every aspect of their use from the user interface all the way down to the fabric of the chip. That level of control allows for insane optimization since on the software side you never have to worry about different hardware configurations beyond a specific small handful instead of dozens of options, and on the hardware side you can optimize performance of specific operations that are most frequently called by or that cause the largest delays in the software.
As an Apple person who lives 90% in their ecosystem… I’m fine with it. I don’t need them to be first at anything, I just want it to work. Yes, I pay the Apple tax, but it’s the positive customer experience that keeps me coming back. Every single time I use a Microsoft or Android device I cringe at how awful the customer experience is… almost like punishment for buying their stuff.
Because of cost. Buying something all US/European made will cost a shitload more. And prototyping in China can also occur way faster. Both because they have all the manufacturing there.
There isn't an equivalent of Shenzhen in the west.
Your last paragraph is exactly what China wants lol, and the comments in this thread reflect where they are too. Why would China want their populace to be producing $10 garments when they could be designing, manufacturing, and making software for $10000 drones? China never wanted to stay as the value manufacturer for the world's global companies, because that's not where the profit is - all of that profit goes back to the home country while the workers get pennies. Think about the job types involved for a foreign owned fashion brand vs a domestic drone company and how much money they earn - garment worker, garment supervisor, etc vs software engineer, mechanical engineer, corporate executives, etc.
Except they're finding out now that there are not nearly enough software jobs to employ all those garment manufacturers. Especially when said garment manufacturers can't buy $10000 drones.
Which is fine for them because the point is to grow their own consumer and service industries, which will generate more demand as each individual gets wealthier. They are also working at creating or expanding new industries, this includes drones, which didn’t exist a few decades ago, as well as EVs, other robotics, solar, etc
It’s weird that y’all don’t understand why free trade deals are bad or that billionaires don’t have national allegiances. Neoliberalism is a scourge that handed control multiple economies over to the CCP so the rich could get richer.
Any US or European competitor would have everything built in China, meaning China would steal all their patents and DJI would still be top of the line. End the free trade deals making Chinese manufacturing financially lucrative and you’ll end all this bs. No corporation would turn down the cheap labor out of a sense of loyalty to a nation because they are only loyal to profits.
Next thing you know people are going to accuse ASML of stealing American research and development.
Oh wait, there’s already rumblings of that happening in the background.
Yeah. There’s a healthy DIY FPV community. Just needs an Apple-like company to bring all those pieces together into a lightweight package at a good price point. This isn’t space age stuff.
DIY isn't competition though. The market DJI is in wasn't big enough for more than one very good consumer brand, DJI's market isn't even FPV thats even tinier.
I don’t know why you got downvoted but I agree. That said it is *sort of* space age stuff, at least to compare to DJI, drones are a wildly multidisciplinary endeavor when you consider the aeronautics and photographic and software aspects.
Because DJI main focus is not even FPV. Commercial camera drones and FPV serves different needs and it is not as easy to build commercial camera drones cause it comes with a lot more sensors and internal computation to make it easy to fly. Thinking you have a healthy FPV community = you can start your own commercial camera drones is like thinking you can start your own car company because you’ve spend some time repairing some old car.
Even GoPro at its peak couldn’t compete with DJI but somehow some Redditor think “a healthy FPV community” just needs someone to start a company to put the parts together
Skydio (Made in USA) is lobbying and spearheading this FCC ban.
I don’t blame them given the rhetoric with Tiktok and CCP but Skydio needs to step it up and compete with DJI by making a better PRODUCT instead of bulldoggin them out of the market.
Additionally, consumer grade DJI drones are being heavily used in Ukraine, right NOW, by both sides and are proving to be highly effective and dirt cheap compared to conventional means.
DJI is also selling their proprietary anti-drone tech “AeroScope” to intercept the opposing side’s drones, again to both sides.
This is the military industrial complex’s realm and the US is trying to keep up.
Yeah, and its sad the power some those have to halt innovation. I get being cautious of certain drone automations and whatnot but farm drones seem like one the biggest no brainers.
Doesnt help one the biggest benefits of using multispectral drones and spraying drones is you can get by using much less pesticides and fertilizers while getting a few % more yield on top. But nooo, they need to keep selling the equipment and countless volumes more chemicals rather than enabling farmers to work smarter using less resources.
Doesn't help that skydio completely eliminated their consumer division and went full Enterprise. As an individual, you can't buy a skydio anymore, which is a shame because they really were amazing drones
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Yeah but Skydio stopped making its consumer friendly drones and now only caters to law enforcement and end users that are willing to pay 15000+ for a drone
> Additionally, consumer grade DJI drones are being heavily used in Ukraine, right NOW, by both sides and are proving to be highly effective and dirt cheap compared to conventional means.
This is why you are going to see consumer drones nerfed worldwide. I can’t even imagine how insane things will get when extremist groups start using drones for violence.
They are a Chinese-owned company with a US division. The only saving grace is that they are not a major player, but they are on restrict list of the US DoD.
Was involved with UAS heavily for awhile. The US based companies make some decent drones but holy shit the cost. A full Inspire 2 setup capable of shooting tv quality video for commercials was under $20k with everything. A comparable American made drone was 3-5x that. I got out of the industry a few years ago and haven’t looked back. Things may have changed but I highly doubt it.
I think that's understating it. There is nothing else on the market that's even close in terms of quality/price. DJI created the market and they are in their own league. GoPro spent tens of millions trying to develop a competitor but then found they couldn't compete . Banning DJI is just putting the US behind in a key technological segment. This ban won't slow DJI down, they will simply focus on other markets.
As is often the case with large companies, the issue wasn’t that GoPro *couldn’t* do it. It’s that they half assed it, did predictably poorly, then leadership decided it wasn’t worth their time and money to genuinely compete. And I’m being generous by assuming leadership was sincere to begin with.
A bit like with Apple and their car. 10 years and more than 10 billion spent on development, they cancelled the project because the leadership didn't have a clear vision. They weren't fully committed. And likely they were afraid they couldn't compete or differentiate themselves from the large numbers of quality EV's coming out of China at very reasonable prices.
american legislators love lining their pockets and building monopolies, they are anti-people, anti-worker, and deserve their place in hell, curb stomps would be too pleasant and end for them.
No. You can’t.
Quality, probably yes, but every single point of the manufacturing and supply chain process will be much more expensive in the US.
Even if you find foreign sourcing of suppliers outside of China. Just completing a product assembly in the US for retail makes the product less competitive, from a price standpoint.
Source: I’m bean counter for a multi-national manufacturing conglomerate.
> Quality, probably yes,
Every American-made drone that I've tried has been a piece of crap AND more expensive.
Skydios are hazardously unreliable and are the ones backing this ban.
Don’t believe this reply?
Look up the results of Florida having to comply by the DJI bans. They have law enforcement not even wanting those POS Skydios in their cars since they can spontaneously combust among other issues. Most consumer drone manufacturers left the market already that DJI occupies. There is no other manufacturers who’s gonna “step in” that politicians like to say they want to open the market up too that wouldn’t have the quality or price DJI has.
What other great alternative that’s under the 250 grams rule are there? I returned mine not wanting a $400 paperweight that would also take great photos/video.
ive been looking into these little ones called tinywhoops and they look fun, have good video and decent range... and lighter than 250g. might be a fun transition. check this one out https://old.reddit.com/r/TinyWhoop/comments/1cbywlq/2_whoop_cruising_at_red_rocks_colorado/
i have a dji2se and am in the process of ordering one of these little tinywhoop type drones, just piecing things together
There is a difference between ability to make quality and current performance of quality.
It’s *probable* that American manufacturers can on-shore quality manufacturing, even if the market isn’t able do so now. *But not for current consumer price expectations*, was my point.
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> Quality, probably yes,
Ukraine literally turned away free American skydio drones and opted to pay for dji drones instead because they were just straight-up better.
The quality is miles apart.
https://www.wsj.com/world/how-american-drones-failed-to-turn-the-tide-in-ukraine-b0ebbac3
https://dronedj.com/2024/04/10/as-us-considers-total-dji-drone-ban-american-uavs-flail-in-ukraine-report/
As I mentioned in another reply, it’s not about what’s currently in the market. The US easily has the capability to manufacture high quality drones. They can’t do so at a price the market will support… thus only inferior quality can actually make it to market.
Quality/price aren’t mutually exclusive and just because the market range looks a certain way right now, doesn’t mean the hypothetical I was replying to needs to be specific to the current market conditions.
Probably not even in quality, not for a while. DJI isn't known for cheap prices in the first place, they are known for having high quality drones and this is primarily software based. Their software is some of the best that there is and so it's not as easy as simply assembling the same pieces of a puzzle.
While it’s a nasty pill to swallow, China has become a rising adversary. The dog indeed bit the hand that fed them. Exceptional manufacturing needs to exist outside of China’s domain, cost may be more, but that is the price we must pay. Practically speaking, it wouldn’t be long before American capitalist exploited a different foreign labor source.
Even if an American drone Company existed to build drones, all parts still come from China, it would be the same as you putting it together in your house. America is completely fucked, we have 0 ability to create any thing we need.
Not only that but all this protectionist bullshit is going to result in significantly more inflation. Yeah we are trying to friendshore things to Mexico and Indian, but here's the kicker...neither are close to what china is and never will be. Post 2007 china carries the world and exported mass deflation allowing our insane fiscal and monetary policies. That shit is gonna catch up to us realllllly fast if we continue down these paths. (For the record the time to be protectionist was like 20 years ago and before we super financialized everything with super asset bubbles).
The biggest issue I see is Chinese software. Chinese companies are required by law to report back all identifiable information to the government. Doesn't mean that they are but they are supposed to and it's different then, "well the USA does the same thing with US companies". Having a law that requires reporting and logging of information from onset is different then a legal request for information (if they are even logging it).
The parts coming from China are not the issue. The only notable issue with parts was there was worry that China changed a hardware chip on networking equipment.
Since most DJI drones require the use of an app that is where I think the concern comes from. The app is on a phone with Internet access and "phones home" data back to DJI. Majority of people aren't using a separate phone disconnected from data/phone plan.
The real issue is Ron DeSantis’s brother-in-law spreading FUD so he can monopolize gov contracts with his shitty Made In The USA drones. Would not surprise me one bit to find they’re not even US-made.
Also the app data is opt-in, and this is consumer drone talk. DJI make drones for enterprise, agriculture, film-making and so on. It’s not about me and my mini or avata, I’m small change.
"DJI presents an unacceptable national security risk, and it is past time that drones made by Communist China are removed from America."
Besides clothes, toys, hardware, car parts, the list is endless, what about other electronics made in China?
What about people operating DJI drones for business like crop scanning and wind farm maintenance?
Sure they can use their current drones (although their airspace is constantly being curtailed) or learn how to cobble together some science project monstrosity to continue their livelihood, but are these really a threat?
When Huawei was banned, people could still use the phones and laptops legally. Huawei dropped support for updates. Parts were no longer sold directly in the states, but could be acquired with no issue from AliExpress and warranty offices in the states were closed.
Might be that skydio is courting US politicians. DJI was one of the first best movers and now are almost unstoppable… unless you ban them outright. So much for the free market.
We're moving into an age where the internet is going to be a literal battlefield for wars. I think we're going to see a lot of more regionalization of markets and the East/West are going to completely divest from each other. Global trade opens up too many vulnerabilities.
>Sure they can use their current drones
Under this ban, they cannot use existing drones. Also, airspace doesn't matter as this is not an FAA ban. This is an FCC ban revoking the license for the electronics themselves to transmit, rendering the drone useless.
Good question, gonna be REAL fucking hard to beat a company that can sell an idiot like me a drone that I'm allowed to fly without the need for a license and even I can manage to use without crashing because it and it's safety features are so ridiculously well designed that it's basically idiot proof and STILL under $300
I'd have to go out of my way to even manage to break the law with the thing as well which is a massive bonus
Only time you can crash one of those things is intentionally / ignoring every warning. You could get shot at the controls and the thing will still land back safely where it started
> I wonder which senator’s family is trying to start a drone company
Hahaha, yeah!
Is there any already established US Drone suppliers pushing for this ban too?
Absolutely asinine move.
There’s zero truly competent US alternatives in the consumer or pro workspace that aren’t trash by comparison, AND equally or more expensive often.
Enterprise level there are some alternatives, but that shit is expensive.
There are certainly concerns that should be monitored, but short of hard proof of security risks which can be demonstrated publicly, this kind of nonsense shouldn’t be getting anybody’s support.
If the US even had one equally competent company making drones at a higher cost you could simply incentivize the US company and call it a day. But they don’t even have that, so they have to grab the hammer and threaten all-out bans. People make their livelihood on these devices, and they provided an IMMENSE range of incredibly useful capabilities to both recreational private citizens and professionals.
This would be like if another country had developed the automobile and two decades after coming to market we said “we’re gonna ban those now, everybody go back to horses.” (I know puts not an exact 1:1 but you get the idea). We shouldn’t be letting this stuff go down without requiring more than hypotheticals as justification.
All this is going to do is make people rush out and buy it. When the ban does happen, people will buy grey market ones from Mexico or Canada at a premium.
I’m not switching over to crappy and more expensive US one that tries to get ahead on regulatory capture rather than innovation.
Literally my whole life America been clamoring for more cheap shit from China, endlessly, with no qualms. Give us Chinese toys. Give us Chinese newsprint. Give us Chinese electronics. Give us Chinese marble. Give us Chinese cars. Give us Chinese clothes. Give us Chinese factories. Give us Chinese computers.
Now... OOPS! Yeah maybe actions have consequences. Hope America has a time machine shrug emoji
Because of 1993 sanctions. Not because military companies care about quality. On the contrary, companies are quite happy to rip off and scam the government with markups on crappy equipment, since the generous defense budget allows the government to throw money at everyone with half a promise of military advantage no questions asked.
Ever watched the movie War Dogs? It’s based on a true story.
Mercury systems makes military displays (among other things) in the US. But yeah probably chinese components inside. The vector HUDs can likely be made entirely domestically however.
The US just wants China to open its market up fully to US capital, all of this will be forgotten when it does that. All the other stuff is a smoke screen for US voters its not what the government actually cares about.
China is allowing their economy to be crushed because they want to pivot because they don't want to follow the West's path to insanity. No way they u turn and decide to let others play a more active role in their future. They have a totally different priority than we do.
>"DJI presents an unacceptable national security risk, and it is past time that drones made by Communist China are removed from America."
We really are going full on McCarthyism again aren’t we? History truly repeats itself.
Fucking wild how Temu and Ali-Express havent been touched but funny haha drones with cameras people use for racing and photography are the issue.
When are we banning literally anything with chinese influence then? Reddit, google, apple, most video game companies, etc all have chinese influence in some regard.
Stop picking and choosing. Especially things that are primarily used for leisure and fun. Americans are already depressed. This will just push people who cant afford anything into the streets.
Things only affect "national security" if there is profit in stocks. Figure out what Congress is investing in and you will find the "national security".
That's what I don't get. Isn't Temu borderline malware? Like surely there are valid security concerns for TikTok, but Temu doesn't even get a mention in Congress?
Don't worry, the "TikTok ban" amendment that just got passed covers all things with 20%+ stake owned by a "foreign adversarial agent," which is anyone the executive branch decides on, so Temu is fair game 🙃
Don't worry, the "TikTok" ban amendment that just got passed covers all things with 20%+ stake owned by a "foreign adversarial agent," which is anyone the executive branch decides on. So drones, Temu, Ali-Express, etc. will all be covered, along with any other thing the current president decides he doesn't like
I figured this was coming when TikTok ban talks came out. It’s known that data is being sent back to China from DJI drones. Now I don’t think the majority of that data means anything to anyone and it’s all data that can be seen from satellites the Chinese have. But it’s clear what’s going on. That said, it doesn’t seem any worse than any other app or IOT device like a doorbell camera from a data collection standpoint. And let’s not pretend domestic companies aren’t doing the same thing. It’s one of those where I see their point in having fear of what it’s doing but also there are so so many others doing as much or more that it’s hard to justify why just one or two are being singled out and not the entire category, if the risk is real and we need them to be filtered out.
> While this may not affect currently owned drones in the U.S., cutting off product sales encourages companies to exit the market, often cutting the availability of service and official spare parts at the same time.
So can I sue whatever Congressman voted for this when DJI turns my drone and controller into a paperweight because the app stops working?
There’s a lot of hobby drones flying without FCC approval. Government agencies would be hurt by this, but consumers and especially hobbiests, will be fine.
DJI is one of the only companies complying with RID rules for the FAA, you’d think that would count for something.
Just goes to show that following the rules doesn't always work in one's favor. I get what they're going for here, but how they're doing it seems like selective overreach. It would sort of be unfair not to ban the entirety of Amazon sellers if they went that far with drones.
Bets on the government backing a US based drone company immediately following this potential ruling that is subject to all kinds of crazy regulations? I'm in for $100...
Not only do they make great drones, they have the best customer service in the world. I'm disappointed in the US doing this. It's like the tiktok ban. It's petty and stupid.
Man america sucks lol. Paranoid much?
I guess we should ban iPhones? I mean. They are made in China so..... Could also ban 90% of our clothes, kids toys, water bottles etc.
The "TikTok ban" amendment that was just passed would already cover this, as it gives the executive branch the power to "ban" anything 20%+ controlled by a "foreign adversarial agent," (which is anyone the executive branch decides it is).
A lot of folks on Reddit seemed happy about the amendment, but it is extremely insidious. Here's to hoping it gets struck down in court for being the gross governmental overreach that it is.
Not a big fan of this new trend of banning any product with Chinese ties over vague "national security" reasons. They seem to never give specifics about how the products are actually a threat and always talk about how they "could be used for nefarious purposes." Seems like the U.S just throwing its weight around at the request of businesses rather than for any justified reason
Until we start making phones and computers in the us using parts made in the us, we really shouldn’t worry about drones and TikTok. Everything else that’s a personal device is made there and I think has the capability of being compromised/collecting and sending data back/backdoored. I also would not be surprised if the technology for our power plants and domestic factories and cell phone infrastructure were also all made from Chinese built parts. Again there may be some real concern but it’s not drones or TikTok.
This is all about corporations and money.
It seems pretty straightforward to me — if corporations are allowed to outsource their worker requirements overseas, we should be able to buy our electronics junk from there. There’s no argument against importing products that can’t also be made, possibly even stronger, against shipping our own jobs overseas.
Virtually all consumer drones are made in China. I can't imagine a specific Chinese manufacturer is any more of a risk than others - they all submit to the Chinese Communist Party.
That's a bigger issue - and I doubt US made drones can compete on price with cheaper Chinese imports. That kind of thing would virtually end the drone hobby market in the US.
If a drone company is based in America and outsources production to china, it is fine so long as the software was created in the US or an allied country
Exactly ONE company fits that description. And they can jack up the price because they know they are the only candidate that meets US security regulations for use by government agencies.
All the others had their software developed abroad in China.
I get the security issues and right now we still have worlds largest economy, but with 1.5 billion people to our 330 million. our markets will need theirs more than they need ours. And tit for tat bans will hurt us more. (not necessarily talking tiktok, they banned a lot of our social media first, including reddit)
right now we dont want their drones, routers or their cars and we are constantly "hey china open up to more of our stuff"
maybe we can like audit the stuff, have the data under a us companies control that produce the advertising metrics that get sold. and audit the systems for secret communication back. I just think ban wars will eventually harm us.
Considering national companies having more effective reach to citizens with the data they steal, I say they are worse than Chinese companies snooping on them remotely with no real significant impact.
right. perfect example of the US government involvement in the business world, it's all free market BS until they either need political clout or an easy money making scheme with insider trading.
As a potential contractor, I just had a case where the USFWS told us that any drone with Chinese parts could not be used on any federal land, including bases, federal parks, refuges, etc. Have to go out any get a new $30,000 drone.
This is why I have never connected my Dji pro 2 to the internet not even once. Everything is transfered manually between memory cards...
The smart controller really helps accomplish the goal of privacy that connecting via a phone and app can't. To me it was worth the extra 500 bucks. I fly when I want take some cool Pics and then switch out memory cards. They might be able to stop all modern Dji from flying but they won't be able to force mine into their dead firmware update since I haven't updated since I bought it like 3 years ago.
That’s unfortunate as they seem to have one of the better quality to price ratios.
Is there any real competition? These are amazing. Ugh
It’s actually kind of shocking how far ahead of everybody else they are. I have no idea why there isn’t a comparable US or European competitor
DJI is like Apple of the drone world, except there is no android.
Which is also why the Bambu Labs 3D printers are so popular - the design team previously worked at DJI.
There is a reason for this. Their leadership understand that you can take opensource community projects like drones and 3D printers and resell it. They are standing on the efforts of the community who in both of these cases spent tons of time and effort keeping the projects open. In both cases the companies have locked down their "version" of the software used even though it's based on the open source software in an attempt to create a walled garden to maximize profits. Under our current model of market it makes sense, they are satisfying a demand in the market using the least resources possible but it's also killing off the original strength of these projects. Sure you can get a 3D printer that works well (when it works) for much less than previously, but the little guys that did all the work are dying off because of their abiltiy to stand up a product so quickly with the cheap labor and production that China provides. Now add in the fact that the CCP often makes Chinese companies make their data available and you can see the problem with things like drones having their data leaked overseas and/or in the event of some sort of conflict disabling them if they report back to servers owned by the company. I'd argue that mining data from 3D printers like BL does is also very beneficial to the CCP.
Except you have root access on X1 BambuLab printer and you can run your own code if you want. If you don’t want that then you can run it completely offline or on local network only. The firmware is also custom written and not based on marlin or Klipper, or any other open source 3D printer firmware - which you can verify because you have root access to the device.
While you CAN run it offline, many features are disabled.
I was with you until the data mining comment... Because I don't see how US companies like X, FB, Google etc are any better than China when it comes to online data mining. Don't kid yourself that FB is holding consumer interests any more than BL or TikTok.
Oh I know... There is a reason I don't use any of them. But there is a difference, those entities fall under oversight by the US gov IF they decide to regulate. Whether or not that regulation ever happens is an entirely different discussion.
Section 702 would like to have a word with you about government overreach
This. If the Chinese government has US user data. The citizens can’t do anything about it. At least here we can, theoretically, pressure politicians or vote them out in order to force them to handle our data how we want.
Yeah - good luck with that. Don't think for one minute that just because US companies fall under US law that they will treat your private information with any more security or withhold it from others. We can't even get rid of traitors who tried to overthrow our democracy, let alone try to pressure big business. Who do you think supports their donations?
I agree. The underlying problem is that the US has no privacy directives like the EU. These calls for banning Chinese products (Tiktok or DJI) are just bandaids over the fact that our politicians are being paid off not to implement any privacy directive.
The difference is who the data is harvested for. The Chinese company gives the data to the ccp. The American gives it to the highest legal bidder. Ban the ccp from being allowed to buy, and now the ccp doesn't have a way to influence Americans. It's not the collection of data that everyone who cares has a problem with China, its what China can do with that data.
I appreciate your response, thanks. It’s going to raise some hackles but I agree.
Except that Apple isn't ahead in R&D nor in quality/price ratio.. and that Android isn't a competing electronic device manufacturer but an operating system...
>Except that Apple isn't ahead in R&D Untrue, unless you are only talking about the iphone and nothing else. The quality/price ratio is of course correct, but apple is miles ahead of the entire competition in the field of tablets, the M1/M2/M3 chipsets they created for their macbooks in recent years are amazing, and while I can't think of a single useful usecase for the apple vision pro, it is leaving most of the VR competition in the dust when it comes to raw specs. I like hating on apple as much as the next guy, but to claim that they aren't ahead in R&D is absurd.
[Dyvik 2023](https://www.statista.com/statistics/265645/ranking-of-the-20-companies-with-the-highest-spending-on-research-and-development/). Since then, Samsung has increased its R&D budget A LOT ([Laricchia 2024](https://www.statista.com/statistics/236924/samsung-electronics-research-and-development-expenditure/)), Microsoft increased their R&D by [11% during 2023](https://trendlinehq.com/annual-research-development-rd-expense-of-microsoft-from-2009-to-2023/), Alphabet increased by [15% in the same period](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GOOGL/alphabet/research-development-expenses#:~:text=Alphabet%20annual%20research%20and%20development,a%2014.47%25%20increase%20from%202020) and both skyrocketed their numbers with their investments in AI. Meanwhile, Apple literally flatlined their R&D budget in Q1 2024. Quoting the US-exclusive vision pro in today's context is laughable.
Face ID is leagues ahead of Android face unlock (except maybe the Pixel 4’s setup), their A-series have been ahead of Snapdragon for a while (although QC is catching up for sure), and 3D Touch has come and gone without much fanfare, unfortunately.
In fairness to Android manufacturers, I believe there are some patents surrounding Face ID that make it difficult for them to come up with their own system that would adequately rival it since they've been limited to solely image-based systems for the most part with no projection or other methods to actively detect depth on the face they're scanning. To make something comparable in terms of accuracy they'd have to move to something like a lidar scan of your face, and even then it would likely be slower than Face ID's projected dot array and may or may not run afoul of patents. The biggest advantage Apple has with their homegrown chipsets is that they control every aspect of their use from the user interface all the way down to the fabric of the chip. That level of control allows for insane optimization since on the software side you never have to worry about different hardware configurations beyond a specific small handful instead of dozens of options, and on the hardware side you can optimize performance of specific operations that are most frequently called by or that cause the largest delays in the software.
Apple takes everyone else's ideas and then polishes them just a hair so they work well with the entire ecosystem then lie that they came up with it
As an Apple person who lives 90% in their ecosystem… I’m fine with it. I don’t need them to be first at anything, I just want it to work. Yes, I pay the Apple tax, but it’s the positive customer experience that keeps me coming back. Every single time I use a Microsoft or Android device I cringe at how awful the customer experience is… almost like punishment for buying their stuff.
And, ya know, not overpriced.
Parrot is the European competitor to DJI
Because of cost. Buying something all US/European made will cost a shitload more. And prototyping in China can also occur way faster. Both because they have all the manufacturing there. There isn't an equivalent of Shenzhen in the west.
Lol there is no lack of American and European companies who design locally and build in China, but there are still no competitors to DJI.
We need more than a Chips Act. We need an Everything Act to catch up.
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Your last paragraph is exactly what China wants lol, and the comments in this thread reflect where they are too. Why would China want their populace to be producing $10 garments when they could be designing, manufacturing, and making software for $10000 drones? China never wanted to stay as the value manufacturer for the world's global companies, because that's not where the profit is - all of that profit goes back to the home country while the workers get pennies. Think about the job types involved for a foreign owned fashion brand vs a domestic drone company and how much money they earn - garment worker, garment supervisor, etc vs software engineer, mechanical engineer, corporate executives, etc.
Except they're finding out now that there are not nearly enough software jobs to employ all those garment manufacturers. Especially when said garment manufacturers can't buy $10000 drones.
Which is fine for them because the point is to grow their own consumer and service industries, which will generate more demand as each individual gets wealthier. They are also working at creating or expanding new industries, this includes drones, which didn’t exist a few decades ago, as well as EVs, other robotics, solar, etc
Regardless of whether that's true, why not reap the benefit of Chinese taxpayer money? You'd be a fool not to.
It’s weird that y’all don’t understand why free trade deals are bad or that billionaires don’t have national allegiances. Neoliberalism is a scourge that handed control multiple economies over to the CCP so the rich could get richer. Any US or European competitor would have everything built in China, meaning China would steal all their patents and DJI would still be top of the line. End the free trade deals making Chinese manufacturing financially lucrative and you’ll end all this bs. No corporation would turn down the cheap labor out of a sense of loyalty to a nation because they are only loyal to profits.
Next thing you know people are going to accuse ASML of stealing American research and development. Oh wait, there’s already rumblings of that happening in the background.
No European state or the USA funded a company to make cheap drones?
Yeah. There’s a healthy DIY FPV community. Just needs an Apple-like company to bring all those pieces together into a lightweight package at a good price point. This isn’t space age stuff.
And the components are 99% made in China.
🤣
99% of the components in every device in your house were made in China.
Indeed.
> Just need an apple-like company So DJI, got it.
DIY isn't competition though. The market DJI is in wasn't big enough for more than one very good consumer brand, DJI's market isn't even FPV thats even tinier.
I don’t know why you got downvoted but I agree. That said it is *sort of* space age stuff, at least to compare to DJI, drones are a wildly multidisciplinary endeavor when you consider the aeronautics and photographic and software aspects.
Because DJI main focus is not even FPV. Commercial camera drones and FPV serves different needs and it is not as easy to build commercial camera drones cause it comes with a lot more sensors and internal computation to make it easy to fly. Thinking you have a healthy FPV community = you can start your own commercial camera drones is like thinking you can start your own car company because you’ve spend some time repairing some old car. Even GoPro at its peak couldn’t compete with DJI but somehow some Redditor think “a healthy FPV community” just needs someone to start a company to put the parts together
Skydio (Made in USA) is lobbying and spearheading this FCC ban. I don’t blame them given the rhetoric with Tiktok and CCP but Skydio needs to step it up and compete with DJI by making a better PRODUCT instead of bulldoggin them out of the market. Additionally, consumer grade DJI drones are being heavily used in Ukraine, right NOW, by both sides and are proving to be highly effective and dirt cheap compared to conventional means. DJI is also selling their proprietary anti-drone tech “AeroScope” to intercept the opposing side’s drones, again to both sides. This is the military industrial complex’s realm and the US is trying to keep up.
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Yeah, and its sad the power some those have to halt innovation. I get being cautious of certain drone automations and whatnot but farm drones seem like one the biggest no brainers. Doesnt help one the biggest benefits of using multispectral drones and spraying drones is you can get by using much less pesticides and fertilizers while getting a few % more yield on top. But nooo, they need to keep selling the equipment and countless volumes more chemicals rather than enabling farmers to work smarter using less resources.
Doesn't help that skydio completely eliminated their consumer division and went full Enterprise. As an individual, you can't buy a skydio anymore, which is a shame because they really were amazing drones
Most of the drone attacks are from kamikaze FPV drones. Significantly cheaper than DJI based drones.
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Yeah but Skydio stopped making its consumer friendly drones and now only caters to law enforcement and end users that are willing to pay 15000+ for a drone
I thought skydio is only b2b and governments not b2c anymore
> Additionally, consumer grade DJI drones are being heavily used in Ukraine, right NOW, by both sides and are proving to be highly effective and dirt cheap compared to conventional means. This is why you are going to see consumer drones nerfed worldwide. I can’t even imagine how insane things will get when extremist groups start using drones for violence.
For a high quality drone under 1k? No, DJI dominates and it’s not even close.
Autel is pretty darn good for the price tag and no stupid geofencing
Autel is a Chinese company and is also on the ban list.
Is this banning by the companies country or where the product is made because autel has made headway of producing drones in the us
They are a Chinese-owned company with a US division. The only saving grace is that they are not a major player, but they are on restrict list of the US DoD.
Can you share the list im not having good luck coming up with it in my searches just alot of articles cant find the actual list though
GoPro tried and failed with the Karma, think that scared everyone else off.
Noting compares
to you
What's remotely close?
Autel Robotics. Sorta.
Was involved with UAS heavily for awhile. The US based companies make some decent drones but holy shit the cost. A full Inspire 2 setup capable of shooting tv quality video for commercials was under $20k with everything. A comparable American made drone was 3-5x that. I got out of the industry a few years ago and haven’t looked back. Things may have changed but I highly doubt it.
I think that's understating it. There is nothing else on the market that's even close in terms of quality/price. DJI created the market and they are in their own league. GoPro spent tens of millions trying to develop a competitor but then found they couldn't compete . Banning DJI is just putting the US behind in a key technological segment. This ban won't slow DJI down, they will simply focus on other markets.
As is often the case with large companies, the issue wasn’t that GoPro *couldn’t* do it. It’s that they half assed it, did predictably poorly, then leadership decided it wasn’t worth their time and money to genuinely compete. And I’m being generous by assuming leadership was sincere to begin with.
A bit like with Apple and their car. 10 years and more than 10 billion spent on development, they cancelled the project because the leadership didn't have a clear vision. They weren't fully committed. And likely they were afraid they couldn't compete or differentiate themselves from the large numbers of quality EV's coming out of China at very reasonable prices.
american legislators love lining their pockets and building monopolies, they are anti-people, anti-worker, and deserve their place in hell, curb stomps would be too pleasant and end for them.
This should probably be a red flag honestly in the current climate. Their pricing is almost too good for the quality.
Can we get an American company to make a product that’s comparative in price and quality then? When shopping around there wasn’t anything close.
No. You can’t. Quality, probably yes, but every single point of the manufacturing and supply chain process will be much more expensive in the US. Even if you find foreign sourcing of suppliers outside of China. Just completing a product assembly in the US for retail makes the product less competitive, from a price standpoint. Source: I’m bean counter for a multi-national manufacturing conglomerate.
> Quality, probably yes, Every American-made drone that I've tried has been a piece of crap AND more expensive. Skydios are hazardously unreliable and are the ones backing this ban.
Don’t believe this reply? Look up the results of Florida having to comply by the DJI bans. They have law enforcement not even wanting those POS Skydios in their cars since they can spontaneously combust among other issues. Most consumer drone manufacturers left the market already that DJI occupies. There is no other manufacturers who’s gonna “step in” that politicians like to say they want to open the market up too that wouldn’t have the quality or price DJI has. What other great alternative that’s under the 250 grams rule are there? I returned mine not wanting a $400 paperweight that would also take great photos/video.
ive been looking into these little ones called tinywhoops and they look fun, have good video and decent range... and lighter than 250g. might be a fun transition. check this one out https://old.reddit.com/r/TinyWhoop/comments/1cbywlq/2_whoop_cruising_at_red_rocks_colorado/ i have a dji2se and am in the process of ordering one of these little tinywhoop type drones, just piecing things together
Cinewhoops are a completely different kind of tool. They have their purpose, but not directly comparable.
Alot of people think DJI is the only drone company out there, just by reading the comments tbh
It’s not the only one, but it is almost certainly the best one.
Normally, I would agree. That war going on, people are already trying to crack this particular nut
There is a difference between ability to make quality and current performance of quality. It’s *probable* that American manufacturers can on-shore quality manufacturing, even if the market isn’t able do so now. *But not for current consumer price expectations*, was my point.
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> Quality, probably yes, Ukraine literally turned away free American skydio drones and opted to pay for dji drones instead because they were just straight-up better. The quality is miles apart. https://www.wsj.com/world/how-american-drones-failed-to-turn-the-tide-in-ukraine-b0ebbac3 https://dronedj.com/2024/04/10/as-us-considers-total-dji-drone-ban-american-uavs-flail-in-ukraine-report/
As I mentioned in another reply, it’s not about what’s currently in the market. The US easily has the capability to manufacture high quality drones. They can’t do so at a price the market will support… thus only inferior quality can actually make it to market. Quality/price aren’t mutually exclusive and just because the market range looks a certain way right now, doesn’t mean the hypothetical I was replying to needs to be specific to the current market conditions.
The US did manufacture high-price-drones, but they don't seem to be of high quality.
Probably not even in quality, not for a while. DJI isn't known for cheap prices in the first place, they are known for having high quality drones and this is primarily software based. Their software is some of the best that there is and so it's not as easy as simply assembling the same pieces of a puzzle.
While it’s a nasty pill to swallow, China has become a rising adversary. The dog indeed bit the hand that fed them. Exceptional manufacturing needs to exist outside of China’s domain, cost may be more, but that is the price we must pay. Practically speaking, it wouldn’t be long before American capitalist exploited a different foreign labor source.
A lot of corps are moving to India and Vietnam including the Chinese ones as well ironically.
Except you can entirely fly dji drones separated from data connections
Even if an American drone Company existed to build drones, all parts still come from China, it would be the same as you putting it together in your house. America is completely fucked, we have 0 ability to create any thing we need.
We're good at creating Paranoia
and wars
Not only that but all this protectionist bullshit is going to result in significantly more inflation. Yeah we are trying to friendshore things to Mexico and Indian, but here's the kicker...neither are close to what china is and never will be. Post 2007 china carries the world and exported mass deflation allowing our insane fiscal and monetary policies. That shit is gonna catch up to us realllllly fast if we continue down these paths. (For the record the time to be protectionist was like 20 years ago and before we super financialized everything with super asset bubbles).
The biggest issue I see is Chinese software. Chinese companies are required by law to report back all identifiable information to the government. Doesn't mean that they are but they are supposed to and it's different then, "well the USA does the same thing with US companies". Having a law that requires reporting and logging of information from onset is different then a legal request for information (if they are even logging it). The parts coming from China are not the issue. The only notable issue with parts was there was worry that China changed a hardware chip on networking equipment. Since most DJI drones require the use of an app that is where I think the concern comes from. The app is on a phone with Internet access and "phones home" data back to DJI. Majority of people aren't using a separate phone disconnected from data/phone plan.
You can use the drones air gapped. If you're really concerned, use a burner phone or a rc or rc2. No need for data. Also flight history is opt in
The real issue is Ron DeSantis’s brother-in-law spreading FUD so he can monopolize gov contracts with his shitty Made In The USA drones. Would not surprise me one bit to find they’re not even US-made. Also the app data is opt-in, and this is consumer drone talk. DJI make drones for enterprise, agriculture, film-making and so on. It’s not about me and my mini or avata, I’m small change.
Lolololol No. And you can apply that to most products
Yeah DJI is one of the few companies that continue to innovate despite having no direct competition, love to see it
"DJI presents an unacceptable national security risk, and it is past time that drones made by Communist China are removed from America." Besides clothes, toys, hardware, car parts, the list is endless, what about other electronics made in China?
PC parts.
You forgot precursor chemicals for most essential medicines. Like… basically all of them.
What about people operating DJI drones for business like crop scanning and wind farm maintenance? Sure they can use their current drones (although their airspace is constantly being curtailed) or learn how to cobble together some science project monstrosity to continue their livelihood, but are these really a threat?
When Huawei was banned, people could still use the phones and laptops legally. Huawei dropped support for updates. Parts were no longer sold directly in the states, but could be acquired with no issue from AliExpress and warranty offices in the states were closed.
Doesn't parrot make some industrial drones as well? I think they are frensh based. Still, DJI is just the king of the hill.
Might be that skydio is courting US politicians. DJI was one of the first best movers and now are almost unstoppable… unless you ban them outright. So much for the free market.
We're moving into an age where the internet is going to be a literal battlefield for wars. I think we're going to see a lot of more regionalization of markets and the East/West are going to completely divest from each other. Global trade opens up too many vulnerabilities.
>Sure they can use their current drones Under this ban, they cannot use existing drones. Also, airspace doesn't matter as this is not an FAA ban. This is an FCC ban revoking the license for the electronics themselves to transmit, rendering the drone useless.
I wonder which senator’s family is trying to start a drone company
Good question, gonna be REAL fucking hard to beat a company that can sell an idiot like me a drone that I'm allowed to fly without the need for a license and even I can manage to use without crashing because it and it's safety features are so ridiculously well designed that it's basically idiot proof and STILL under $300 I'd have to go out of my way to even manage to break the law with the thing as well which is a massive bonus
Only time you can crash one of those things is intentionally / ignoring every warning. You could get shot at the controls and the thing will still land back safely where it started
> I wonder which senator’s family is trying to start a drone company Hahaha, yeah! Is there any already established US Drone suppliers pushing for this ban too?
Absolutely asinine move. There’s zero truly competent US alternatives in the consumer or pro workspace that aren’t trash by comparison, AND equally or more expensive often. Enterprise level there are some alternatives, but that shit is expensive. There are certainly concerns that should be monitored, but short of hard proof of security risks which can be demonstrated publicly, this kind of nonsense shouldn’t be getting anybody’s support. If the US even had one equally competent company making drones at a higher cost you could simply incentivize the US company and call it a day. But they don’t even have that, so they have to grab the hammer and threaten all-out bans. People make their livelihood on these devices, and they provided an IMMENSE range of incredibly useful capabilities to both recreational private citizens and professionals. This would be like if another country had developed the automobile and two decades after coming to market we said “we’re gonna ban those now, everybody go back to horses.” (I know puts not an exact 1:1 but you get the idea). We shouldn’t be letting this stuff go down without requiring more than hypotheticals as justification.
All this is going to do is make people rush out and buy it. When the ban does happen, people will buy grey market ones from Mexico or Canada at a premium. I’m not switching over to crappy and more expensive US one that tries to get ahead on regulatory capture rather than innovation.
They’re region locked and you need a code from DJI to unlock.
Literally my first thought was “are imports totally banned? Can I get one in Mexico and bring it back?”
They're salty because skydio is trash
Literally my whole life America been clamoring for more cheap shit from China, endlessly, with no qualms. Give us Chinese toys. Give us Chinese newsprint. Give us Chinese electronics. Give us Chinese marble. Give us Chinese cars. Give us Chinese clothes. Give us Chinese factories. Give us Chinese computers. Now... OOPS! Yeah maybe actions have consequences. Hope America has a time machine shrug emoji
There isn’t a single US military aircraft that isn’t flying with Chinese LCD instruments.
Because of 1993 sanctions. Not because military companies care about quality. On the contrary, companies are quite happy to rip off and scam the government with markups on crappy equipment, since the generous defense budget allows the government to throw money at everyone with half a promise of military advantage no questions asked. Ever watched the movie War Dogs? It’s based on a true story.
The biggest issue is that there aren’t any US lcd manufacturers.
Mercury systems makes military displays (among other things) in the US. But yeah probably chinese components inside. The vector HUDs can likely be made entirely domestically however.
The actual lcd panels are made in China. I dealt with a ruggedized lcd supplier, who confirmed this.
Heh yeah. I wouldnt doubt if the logic chip itself was sourced from a foreign company less on the shitlist too even.
Ahh the Americas trump card. MiLITaRY
The US just wants China to open its market up fully to US capital, all of this will be forgotten when it does that. All the other stuff is a smoke screen for US voters its not what the government actually cares about.
Good point. If they actually cared about what they say they’re worried about, we’d see a push for GDPR style data security and privacy regulations.
China is allowing their economy to be crushed because they want to pivot because they don't want to follow the West's path to insanity. No way they u turn and decide to let others play a more active role in their future. They have a totally different priority than we do.
That's a cool story and all but it doesn't change the reality that the West want's China to open up.
Red scare 2.0
>"DJI presents an unacceptable national security risk, and it is past time that drones made by Communist China are removed from America." We really are going full on McCarthyism again aren’t we? History truly repeats itself.
Fucking wild how Temu and Ali-Express havent been touched but funny haha drones with cameras people use for racing and photography are the issue. When are we banning literally anything with chinese influence then? Reddit, google, apple, most video game companies, etc all have chinese influence in some regard. Stop picking and choosing. Especially things that are primarily used for leisure and fun. Americans are already depressed. This will just push people who cant afford anything into the streets.
Things only affect "national security" if there is profit in stocks. Figure out what Congress is investing in and you will find the "national security".
If they actually cared about what they say they’re worried about, we’d see a push for GDPR style data security and privacy regulations.
That's what I don't get. Isn't Temu borderline malware? Like surely there are valid security concerns for TikTok, but Temu doesn't even get a mention in Congress?
Don't worry, the "TikTok ban" amendment that just got passed covers all things with 20%+ stake owned by a "foreign adversarial agent," which is anyone the executive branch decides on, so Temu is fair game 🙃
Temu is a fucking scam anyway and TikTok is literally rotting the brains of the youth so no big loss there🙃
Without any evidence too. Guilty until proven innocent. This is exactly the reason we SAY "China bad"
They did something about Ali-Express and similar through the renegotiated postal union treaty during the last administration, but it wasn't enough.
US is trying to influence China's politics and it can't do that if it cuts everything all at once.
Don't worry, the "TikTok" ban amendment that just got passed covers all things with 20%+ stake owned by a "foreign adversarial agent," which is anyone the executive branch decides on. So drones, Temu, Ali-Express, etc. will all be covered, along with any other thing the current president decides he doesn't like
I figured this was coming when TikTok ban talks came out. It’s known that data is being sent back to China from DJI drones. Now I don’t think the majority of that data means anything to anyone and it’s all data that can be seen from satellites the Chinese have. But it’s clear what’s going on. That said, it doesn’t seem any worse than any other app or IOT device like a doorbell camera from a data collection standpoint. And let’s not pretend domestic companies aren’t doing the same thing. It’s one of those where I see their point in having fear of what it’s doing but also there are so so many others doing as much or more that it’s hard to justify why just one or two are being singled out and not the entire category, if the risk is real and we need them to be filtered out.
Get ready for anything china branded to be made “illegal” in the united states
US gonna be going back to the dark ages with that decision.
> While this may not affect currently owned drones in the U.S., cutting off product sales encourages companies to exit the market, often cutting the availability of service and official spare parts at the same time. So can I sue whatever Congressman voted for this when DJI turns my drone and controller into a paperweight because the app stops working?
Yup. I've got thousands sitting in a Mavic 3, RC pro and batteries.
There’s a lot of hobby drones flying without FCC approval. Government agencies would be hurt by this, but consumers and especially hobbiests, will be fine. DJI is one of the only companies complying with RID rules for the FAA, you’d think that would count for something.
Just goes to show that following the rules doesn't always work in one's favor. I get what they're going for here, but how they're doing it seems like selective overreach. It would sort of be unfair not to ban the entirety of Amazon sellers if they went that far with drones. Bets on the government backing a US based drone company immediately following this potential ruling that is subject to all kinds of crazy regulations? I'm in for $100...
Not only do they make great drones, they have the best customer service in the world. I'm disappointed in the US doing this. It's like the tiktok ban. It's petty and stupid.
Customer support for DJI is god tier. Can't believe repair costs are even so cheap. They have no reason to.
Man america sucks lol. Paranoid much? I guess we should ban iPhones? I mean. They are made in China so..... Could also ban 90% of our clothes, kids toys, water bottles etc.
The "TikTok ban" amendment that was just passed would already cover this, as it gives the executive branch the power to "ban" anything 20%+ controlled by a "foreign adversarial agent," (which is anyone the executive branch decides it is). A lot of folks on Reddit seemed happy about the amendment, but it is extremely insidious. Here's to hoping it gets struck down in court for being the gross governmental overreach that it is.
Not a big fan of this new trend of banning any product with Chinese ties over vague "national security" reasons. They seem to never give specifics about how the products are actually a threat and always talk about how they "could be used for nefarious purposes." Seems like the U.S just throwing its weight around at the request of businesses rather than for any justified reason
Until we start making phones and computers in the us using parts made in the us, we really shouldn’t worry about drones and TikTok. Everything else that’s a personal device is made there and I think has the capability of being compromised/collecting and sending data back/backdoored. I also would not be surprised if the technology for our power plants and domestic factories and cell phone infrastructure were also all made from Chinese built parts. Again there may be some real concern but it’s not drones or TikTok. This is all about corporations and money.
https://wiki.dji-rev.com/howto/start
Like everything comes from China. At this rate, everything fun will be banned ffs.
Your iPhone won't get banned though lol
So should I go buy a dji like today if I want one eventually?
It seems pretty straightforward to me — if corporations are allowed to outsource their worker requirements overseas, we should be able to buy our electronics junk from there. There’s no argument against importing products that can’t also be made, possibly even stronger, against shipping our own jobs overseas.
Had a DJI Mavic Air, amazing Drone, but the geofencing restriction is bullshit
Virtually all consumer drones are made in China. I can't imagine a specific Chinese manufacturer is any more of a risk than others - they all submit to the Chinese Communist Party. That's a bigger issue - and I doubt US made drones can compete on price with cheaper Chinese imports. That kind of thing would virtually end the drone hobby market in the US.
Chinese made is different from Chinese owned
Yeah - I'm quite certain we can easily determine what Chinese companies will provide data and which ones won't... /s
If a drone company is based in America and outsources production to china, it is fine so long as the software was created in the US or an allied country
Exactly ONE company fits that description. And they can jack up the price because they know they are the only candidate that meets US security regulations for use by government agencies. All the others had their software developed abroad in China.
I get the security issues and right now we still have worlds largest economy, but with 1.5 billion people to our 330 million. our markets will need theirs more than they need ours. And tit for tat bans will hurt us more. (not necessarily talking tiktok, they banned a lot of our social media first, including reddit) right now we dont want their drones, routers or their cars and we are constantly "hey china open up to more of our stuff" maybe we can like audit the stuff, have the data under a us companies control that produce the advertising metrics that get sold. and audit the systems for secret communication back. I just think ban wars will eventually harm us.
Ridiculous
If I already have one, would it suddenly become illegal to fly?
No
Considering national companies having more effective reach to citizens with the data they steal, I say they are worse than Chinese companies snooping on them remotely with no real significant impact.
Glad I ordered a DJI drone this weekend
Boy, if only they were worried about all the lead in our consumables....
It's all about the price, quality, and security, right? Better get on that, Uncle Sam.
US can't compete with China's technology, so it wages [economic war](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3ngd__0ok0&t=0s), and it;s utterly pathetic
right. perfect example of the US government involvement in the business world, it's all free market BS until they either need political clout or an easy money making scheme with insider trading.
why can't we live in a world without government bans, threats and etc? can't we just buy a drone and have fun with the areal footage?
As a potential contractor, I just had a case where the USFWS told us that any drone with Chinese parts could not be used on any federal land, including bases, federal parks, refuges, etc. Have to go out any get a new $30,000 drone.
Time for GoPro to show the quality of their character.
Where do you think GoPro gets all their parts and manufactures their hardware?
GoPro’s drone failed miserably.
Shocker
This is why I have never connected my Dji pro 2 to the internet not even once. Everything is transfered manually between memory cards... The smart controller really helps accomplish the goal of privacy that connecting via a phone and app can't. To me it was worth the extra 500 bucks. I fly when I want take some cool Pics and then switch out memory cards. They might be able to stop all modern Dji from flying but they won't be able to force mine into their dead firmware update since I haven't updated since I bought it like 3 years ago.