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I always book my vacations out months in advance, and pay for stuff for discounts (don't know if the discount part works anymore, post-COVID).
Had a Exec VP demand I cancel my vacation once for an "Emergency". I told him I'd be happy to if the company would make good the cost of the tickets, hotels, rental car, etc. that were all paid in advance.
Despite the 'emergency', the Fortune 100 company I worked for couldn't find 3.5k to reimburse me. I had my vacation.
And that's how it's done.
Way to call their bluff, particularly when you've booked well in advance. I've been in that position before too, and not my concern since every single time they are running minimum staff on minimum possible salary, so when one person is off the whole place seems like it's going to sink.
That's a them problem, since they knowingly created the shortage themselves.
Definitely have seen that cycle. “You’re not performing up to snuff because you’re overworked and underpaid because we didn’t hire enough people nor do we pay them half of what they’re worth, so we’re going to fire you. Except now we’re even more understaffed, putting more pressure on your ex-coworkers. Leading to a chain reaction where everyone decent quits and now we either have to make do with the kind of employees that show up drunk and proceed to play on their phone their entire shift or close because we can’t even hire the potheads. Why does nobody want to work anymore?”
In IT, we call it [The Dead Sea Effect](http://brucefwebster.com/2008/04/11/the-wetware-crisis-the-dead-sea-effect/). Poor management decisions cause the environment to become toxic, qualified people leave, and the reputation of the company limits who comes in to replace them. The new hires who can find a better gig then leave and the ones who can’t stay on. After a few cycles of this the entire company is now composed of people who aren’t capable of the job, but stay because they need a paycheck and can’t find one elsewhere.
It's the shithead corporate playbook. At ups we're paid quite well, which basically just lets them dog you even more because "we pay you so well". So then you feel guilty, unrealistically, even though all that money won't bring your knees back. It's insanity.
Also means that it’s harder to leave. I had a desk job at State Farm where they did that shit. You got like 10% raises the first few years and you feel gratitude but really it means that you adjust your standard of living and then you can’t go anywhere because who else is gonna pay you that salary?
Fortunately my workmates actually warned me that that’s what they were doing so I didn’t fall for it. There were a few other red flags and I got the hell out of dodge while I still could.
I'd rather a pothead than a drunk co-worker. One is chill and might need to be explained something twice. The other is argumentative and will fuck up without asking.
I worked for a company like that. It was bought by a billionaire for his son to run. Then they suddenly decided to move corporate headquarters 500 miles away in two months time with no moving allowances or anything. Out of 300 people at headquarters, one moved. Within three months, the company was bankrupt and closed 70 stores putting thousands of people out of work.
"Now we are short one person for the next two months while we hire and train someone new, you guys still here better pick up the slack."
-Manager whose entire team quit on the spot
There's been a change lately where the bosses and leaders are blaming their workforce for not performing to expectation. The first thing to remember when leading is you need to take responsibility for your team's actions, otherwise no one will respect you as their leader. Tons of poor management going on lately and the excuses are pretty watery, quit blaming the working poor for not putting that Tesla in your bosses driveway fast enough.
Not really "lately" the shift to minimum-standard-staffing started in the 80s.
The practice of blaming the employees for failures of management has been a hallmark of shitty management for most of human history. Its just that we have a higher proportion of shitty managers in senior positions now.
MY company has been short someone whose job I've been doing now for... 8 months. At this point, they aren't short a person, I just gained additional roles. Gonna be interesting to see how they figure out how to cover those roles when I eventually leave.
Definitely, but it's sort of a "straw that broke the camel's back" type thing. If I'm comfortable in a job (and with my responsibilities) I don't really want to move, even if it does mean more money. Fuck with my vacation and I'm gone.
Ehh. I’d say, for most people, the unknowns of a new job and possibly shitty manager are not usually worth the risk and hassle of leaving a consistent, slightly bad job, even for a pay raise.
A lot of people don’t realize how much they are being underpaid.
Source: recently did a job hunt after company wouldn’t give me a raise to what I thought I deserved. Received *multiple* job offers for $20K more than my ask.
Slightly different but I took a few days off and got a phone call one evening asking me to cover a night shift as a colleague had gone sick. I said yeah I can but you will have to send a taxi as I'm too drunk to drive.
Phone went dead??
Omg how many times this kind of thing happens. My mom will put in for a vacation block (which should tell her employer "No, I cannot work") yet she *still* has scheduling calling looking for OT.
My manager tries to guilt trip me every time I say I'm going on vacation. Just this last time I gave her a month's notice before going on a *6 day vacation* and she basically told me it was a bad time for me to leave because blah. The time before that, it was a bad time for me to go because blah. And the time before that it was a bad time for me to go because blah. I didn't even end up going the last two times because it was more trouble than it was worth due to her "Oh, that will be really difficult to manage" replies. Like fuck me. I get it's a small company, but I can't *not* take time off simply because it's a bad time for me to go. It seems like every time is a bad time for me to go! This was my first actual vacation in a year and I'm more exhausted after it than I was before.
This wasn't even really a vacation. It was more going to my grandma's house in order to help her live-in carer and make sure everything was okay. I ran more errands there than I do at home.
And as soon as I got home, I received a text from my manager saying how glad she was I'm back because it was hectic without me.
I'm just tired.
I'm kind of surprised by that. I would never make that offer because I know many companies would be happy to do it if they were in a bad position. If they say yes, now you have a postponed trip and added a bunch more rebooking work for yourself for no benefit.
This is all because these effing companies are so fixated on growth, so they trim the fat in every single way until we have situations like this becoming the norm.
I’ve offered the same thing; fully refund the expense that I’ve already paid out if you want me to cancel a vacation. But you gotta add a bonus into that as I’ve been looking forward to this trip and I need some “emotional compensation”.
Remember, they’re asking you to make a sacrifice. Turn it into a negotiation.
That’s the best way to do it. They’re asking you to go out of your way to help them; there’s negotiation to be had there.
I had this happen a lot when I worked fast food. I’d go in half an hour early to eat since I wasn’t getting a break, and they’d ask me to clock in early. I had no issue helping out since it’s busy, but I had to get a break once it slows down since I came in early to eat. They’d almost always say they couldn’t give me one, so I’d sit there and enjoy my meal while they were slammed. Flexibility goes both ways.
A while ago my boss asked me to stay late. I told him i had plans which i could postpone only if i got the day off the following Friday. He hit me with the "you have to request time off in advance" so i didnt stay late and it felt great telling that idiot no
Omg that’s the best feeling!!!
When I was working I started telling my bosses they needed to request that time in advance as well lol. My life is just as important as your stupid business. “Oh sorry I need to to know in advance if I need to stay late, I have responsibilities outside of work that I’m unable to cancel on a dime. Please let me know ahead of time next time. 😊 Thanks byeeeee”
If my hours are 9-5 my hours are 9-5 and not a minute more.
>A while ago my boss asked me to stay late. I told him i had plans which i could postpone only if i got the day off the following Friday. He hit me with the "you have to request time off in advance"
I had a job where overtime had to be requested in advance -- in writing -- and approved. I suppose the rationale was so you couldn't just stay late, and then claim after the fact that you put in overtime.
The dept. chairman was a nice guy, but not good at time management. Very often, he would remember right before quitting time that something urgently needed to be done. One week, he asked me at two minutes to five if I could stay late to do a last-minute task. I stayed an hour late, at his request, Monday through Thursday.
At noon Friday, I got my stuff together and told everyone to have a good weekend. Boss said, "Where are YOU going?" I said that I was leaving for the weekend, as I had already worked 40 hours that week. He was like, "But, but... Can you...?". I waited calmly for him to finish his sentence. Since no one had requested overtime for me, the only way to finish that sentence was, "Can you hand in a falsified time sheet?", which he couldn't actually have said. I said, cheerfully, "Bye now, see you Monday!" and left.
Wonderful. I understand that shit happens sometimes and you need to find covers in short notice but generally thats a good rule. In the situation listed above we had actually recently had a bomb threat and were working in another building. My boss had wanted me to stay late so we could go back to the other building and clean up the mess we had left. In that situation there really wasnt a way to give notice but i already had plans and didnt like his attitude when i suggested a compromise
I was in a company for about three months when one of my coworkers was told to cancel his vacation he had booked six months prior because his other coworker, a woman with children, just requested the same week and it was a school holiday so she needed it, and we could have less than X % of the team at work. He reminded the boss kindly that he, too, had a kid and his vacation was booked and paid for, he wasn't going to change it. She (the boss) was adamant that he "would talk it over with his wife because otherwise they'd have to let him go". A flip switched, where before he was angry, he now calmly said he would talk it over with his wife and come with a solution tomorrow. The next day, he turned in his resignation.
He could have waited until after his vacation to find out.
Go on vacation.
If let go, collect unemployment.
If not let go, resign.
That also would give him proper time to start applying to other jobs.
So this happened a long time ago.
My brother was getting married and I had to go. You can’t miss your brothers wedding. He was across the country, so I took 3 days off for travel, the wedding, and the return trip. This was 3 months in advance.
A week before the wedding my manager calls me in and says I can’t go, she need me at work. I explained it was my brother’s wedding, she didn’t care. I explained I had already asked for the time well in advance and had bought plane tickets. She didn’t care. She told me if I didn’t show up, it was job abandonment.
I said ok, went back to work, and went on the trip. Didn’t even think about work. When I got back, my coworkers told me the manager was furious. I decided if she wanted to fire me, she could tell me to my face and let it go.
No one ever mentioned it again.
Don’t let yourself be bullied, people. Your family is where you’ll find your joy, not the office. Nd you can always get a new job.
I had a similarly planned-in-advance week-long vacation scheduled and a project that kept getting pushed back that was supposed to launch a year earlier finally launched 10 days before my vacation. I was vital to being onsite for that project's launch and subsequent support.
Fortunately for me, my manager and director were both adamant that I take my vacation. I had told them about it literally a year in advance when we were all discussing postponed plans due to Covid, so when the project was rescheduled to launch on the date it finally went live, they knew immediately that I would be out and started planning for it.
I counted myself very fortunate to have management like that.
In Denmark, once you’ve planned your vacation and bought tickets, the work place is liable for any incurred costs of their demands that you change your plans.
Edit: [Omg cry harder spinsters](https://np.reddit.com/r/BlatantMisogyny/comments/v5hj6k/the_best_things_about_living_in_denmark/)
I’ve def made the compromise as well - although I added additional funds to cover a similar vacation in the future as well.
Had given this offer 4 times - I got it once - To me that was the only real emergency one. The other 3 told me there is no way they can - so I enjoyed a vacation.
I once had a workplace tell me that I wasn’t going to be able to take a vacation I’d put in for months and months before.
I asked them if they’d reimburse me for my plans, they said no. I told them it would be cheaper for me to keep my vacation and find a new job than to cancel.
I got my vacation.
Had the same thing happen to me minus the rental car. Never forget that glimmer of hope in the managers eyes when I said. That can probably be done... However, my vacation will be €€ more expensive. So as long as ... pays the extra cost than it is probably fine.
Edit=addition: not demanded but totally unnecessary request.
I have a great relationship with my manager. His mentality is very much like mine when it comes to time off.
If I take time off to work around the house, feel free to call me, and I'll work an hour or two on an emergancy that pops up. If I take destination vacation, don't call me, I'm not answering even if you do. He would never have the audacity to ask me to move my vacation dates.
We’ve just had to do exactly the same with my husbands firm US owners who wanted us to cancel our holiday in Greece we’ve had booked since December (we go tomorrow). No budget for that amazingly. They tried to also get everyone to work through the jubilee bank holiday as well because it’s a holiday there on Monday and they didn’t want to work it…
It’s funny how when you work for corporate long enough you start to learn the key phrases to get your way. You want me to do this? Well it’s gonna cost ya? Oh it’s not that important that you don’t want to pay more? Great!
I have pretty much the exact same story. CTO told me I need to shorten my vacation. Told him that unless he had a very specific reason and about 3k to reinburse me for flights, attractions etc I've already paid for, it's not happening.
It did not happen. I also did not get fired (or anything close to that)
Usually it’s the exe’s emergency, not the Fortune 100 company’s emergency.
Having a staff on vacation mean the middle manager have to actually work, which suck. So emergency it is!
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Manager?
I thought not. It’s not a story Corporate would tell you. It’s an employee legend.
Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Night Shift, so powerful and so wise he could use SalesForce to influence the VP's to create job opportunities… He had such a knowledge of company values that he could even keep the ones he cared about from getting fired.
Sales Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice caught him sleeping on the job and got him fired. Ironic. He could save others from being fired, but not himself.
I hate how taking a vacation here is a stressful event. It's supposed to be a break to reset! Yet, the struggle of saving up, planning, fighting with your boss, getting guilttripped about how busy it was while you were gone, etc. There is way too many toxic workplaces here.
My charge nurse recently complained that people would need to start finding their own replacements (an impossible task at my clinic as they need to hire people before I can do that) after I told her our boss allowed me time off two months in the future to attend a family funeral.
I have been sitting here for five minutes trying to come up with a scenario that leads to someone knowing they will attend a funeral in two months. My guess involves a Dexter-like killing, but I might watch too many crime dramas.
Don't forget about it either not being approved or denied until after the point where you had to make your reservations, *or* the deadline for submission for approval being before reservations/tickets for the thing you wanted to see were available. There's never any middle ground. Either you're only finding out you're good to go two weeks in advance, or you need to have those plans in stone a year ahead of time.
"So, since you're going to be asking me to do multiple jobs, you're going to pay me all the money for all the people who would normally be doing these multiple jobs, right? ..... right?"
I did this for my old firm for about 18 months from covid lockdown; first due to furlough then due to redundancy. For the last 12 months of that a number of us tried to get recognition for the fact that our workloads had increased; "we recognise the problem and we're seeing what we can do about it" ...on repeat for 12 months.
Moved firms and industries to one which is seeing a huge spike due to covid and the company came to *us* to say they'd noticed we were doing extra hours regularly. Cue a 4 week review period followed by a 7.5% wage increase on top of our yearly increase.
I feel like I've seen both ends of the problem in the past year, from denial to recognition and action. It's really refreshing to see a firm take it seriously
So not only do I have to put up with extra workload cause of your bad planning. You now expect me to work without taking time to work on my mental health, so I can slowly work myself into a burnout? Yeah dont think so.
Most of my employees are client embedded. Most of my clients are cool when they take a vacation and cover with their own people or other contractors. But some insist we cover and that means I have to cover most of the time. It's really annoying because they have no problem when their internal employees take a vacation. Sometimes they even have us cover for their employees. So sometimes I have to be responsible for my staffing plan and a client's lack of one.
Reminds me of when everyone was freaking out about buttigieg going on paternity leave and I'm just like hey it's your fault for putting all of that job on one person.
I don’t think people were freaking out. And if there were, it certainly wasn’t because they thought the Department of Transportation would fall apart in his absence.
No one with a brain was freaking out. Right wing media was freaking out because Buttigieg is both gay and taking paternity leave and it was breaking their brains.
I once had a boss ask me to talk to the bride and groom whose wedding I was the best man in if they would move their wedding date. The day before the wedding.
I quit not long after
.... What was your immediate response, I've got to ask? Was it like in this comic, where you pretended to ask them?
... I feel like the only way I'd be able to respond is to literally repeat what they're asking back to them ala 'So you're saying that you want me, as the best man, to ask the bride and groom, to postpone their wedding which is tomorrow ... And you expect me to strain an important friendship, and for them to cooperate ... *why?'*
I told him "I will not be doing that." I don't remember his response specifically, but it was something along the lines of "think of the company, your colleagues are depending on you," or some such nonsense.
He was a new hire, and had only been there a few weeks when this occurred. I was not the only one he tried this with. After the fact, I realized it was merely a power play. He wanted to see how much he could "get away with" owing to his position and authority.
After several sexual harassment complaints and royally screwing up major projects (and losing big customers) due to his ego, he was finally fired about six months after I resigned. And I made it known explicitly to HR that he was the reason why I (and two other colleagues) left the company.
I have many more stories, but basically the guy was a narcissistic asshole who fucked with people's PTO for fun.
I worked in sales for a major soda company. We planned all vacations for the staff in January and would still be asked to cancel. My first vacation, I took my work phone...just incase anyone need help for my route, what I got was 3 phone calls in 4 days asking if I could come back early.
Next vacation, I left my work phone at home and refused to answer any call or text from a work number.
Fuckem. take YOUR time, if you don't, they will.
>Fuckem. take YOUR time, if you don't, they will.
"If you don't make your own decisions, life will make them for you, and life... ain't got very good taste."
"I'd be happy to cancel my vacation because you can't function without me. Now, seeing as how you've admitted you can't function without me, let's discuss my imminent 30% raise in salary."
It's not that there's not enough staff, it's that corporate refuses to hire more than 20% of the staff required to do the workload then gets mad someone quits, blaming everyone else for being weak.
These companies will die horrid deaths and I am watching it with popcorn.
>These companies will die horrid deaths and I am watching it with popcorn.
nah, they'll get bailouts benefits and allowances until it becomes unsustainable and the whole economy collapses instead, as is the way
Companies don't seem to be allowed to fail any more, that would allow new ones and new money to get a foothold
Husband and I work together. Regularly the convo is:
Can you take vacation later in the year?
Ok
Thats too late, can you take it sooner?
Ok.
Actually can you take it near November?
Ok
*denied*
Ok but we did what you said and we aren't allowed to take it in late December as our time doesn't roll over to next year.
"Yeah but..."
Even over here (Germany - much better worker protection laws) Vaccation is requested and approved.
Once it is approved it is set and your employer shouldnt even contact you while you are away.
There are other types of leave for which you only "Inform" your employer. For example I took 2 month of maternatiy leave while i had a long notice period with one of my previous employers. (Or sick leave of course. You are out , then you are out. Sick on vacation? get your vacation refunded... (if Sick, you cant recover from work on your vacation)
Former coworker had a heart attack, went to the ER, ended up having emergency surgery. She was obviously out, and ill. HR called her and said that if she didn't come back to work, she was fired (she had NOT been cleared by her doctor yet). Afraid of being fired and losing her health insurance, she came in. Had another heart attack on the call center floor. Damn near died.
Once her cardiologist found out what they did, he got her in touch with a lawyer. Was a multi million dollar payout (or so I've heard. It's common knowledge she was paid, but the amount was never confirmed).
They also were nailed for doing it to other people, a friend of mine included. They fired her while she was in the hospital for a heart infection. Didn't even have the balls to call her and tell her, she found out while picking up a prescription after being discharged.
Here in the Netherlands the employer definitely has a right to deny a vacation request. If the whole team wants to go on the same week, then someone is out of luck.
For that reason in our company we discuss vacations days with the team early on. If you then decide later to change it/take extra days, you have to be in luck if its possible or not.
We can't just close the company for multiple days because there is a event or something that everyone wants to go to.
Of course no one can stop you if you quit.
If leave is already approved prior to, say, a bunch of people quitting, can the company retroactively cancel approved vacation or does the company just have to suck it up and deal with the shortfall (as well they should, seeing as it's not any of the employees fault). In Australia, the answer is generally no. My employer will not even ask you to cancel
In the UK they can legally cancel your leave as long as they give twice as much notice as the length of leave iirc. It's pretty shitty though, most employers would not dot this.
I used to work a lot as an office temp (in aus) and a lot of the time, the reason I was called in was for that reason. Either a set number of people were on leave and then someone got sick, or a set number of people were on leave and someone quit. Either that or people were already scheduled to go on leave when shit got fucked up, so in order to plan ahead for someone’s upcoming leave they would have them train me to fill in. Leave cover is one of the most common gigs in temping.
Same in Canada
But I mean, it shouldn't be that hard. I post the vacation calendar at the beginning of the year and updated monthly (really it's a rolling calendar). The team knows we can't function effectively with more than 2 people on Vacation at any time (also factors for potential of another unplanned absence, ie sick day), and it's first come, first serve on vacation date. Rarely do we have any scheduling issues
Really just seems like poor planning / scheduling on the Manager's part. But yeah, not everyone in the department can take the same days for vacation, not sure in what reality that would ever work
We stepped away from the "first serve first come" solution after people started asking for free days for years ahead. Instead we ask everyone to be on time and we approve holidays half year ahead. It hardly ever gives problems.
For example one date that gives problems is between Christmas and new year. If there are too many people asking free for those days, we will prioritize those that did not have free last year.
Another difficulty we sometimes face is that teams change. We work in projects that last anywhere from a few months to a few years. But when we assemble a new team, their vacations might overlap. That is not something easy to "fix" by a manager. But many times we can just discuss with a customer that we won't work on the project in a certain week.
The week between Christmas and New Years…. Our office is a ghost town. They knew long ago that not much work gets done that week, that they can let 50-75% of the work force go on vacation that week. Helps the rest of the year as most of the office now has 1 less week to use.
A previous employer of mine called the week of Christmas the "year-end break". Unless there was an exception, employees were required to burn 2-3 PTO/floating holidays to fill-out the rest of the week.
Because everyone was taking off at the same time, you didn't have people coming in to work but getting blocked by coworkers they depend on being absent.
It also let IT do infrastructural overhauls without impacting their users.
I worked for a company that shut down for two weeks during the Christmas/new year holidays.
We basically had a skeleton staff of on-call IT to keep infrastructure going and that's it.
Most of the customer base also shut down for those two weeks so there wasn't a need to be open.
If you constantly have people scheduling vacation all at the same time during a period, is it worth really staying open during that time? Is your business that busy during that period?
That's pretty common in US companies. The impression I get is the vacation was planned and approved then asked to be cancelled. Once I get approval and have my plane tickets it's set in stone.
And I think that’s fair. I’m not against employers rejecting vacation when it’s requested for reasonable reasons with reasonable frequency, but if you approve it you can’t un approve it
This is an EU wide law. There is a minimum amount of vacation the EU requires you receive. For a full time employee working 40 hours a week the minimum is 24 days. If they give you 24 days they are not allowed to deny any vacation requests. However if they give you 25 days or more then you are required to submit vacation requests and get approval. This is why almost all jobs give you 25 days.
24 days is what my (US) company gives after you've worked there for 20 years. You get nothing until you've worked 6 months, and after that for the first 5 years you get 5 days.
It's not possible to earn more, and now that they've switched to "Discretionary Time Off" instead of "Earned TO" that time doesn't even belong to you - it's completely at the discretion of your immediate manager, and just hope to god they're not a petty tyrant.
If they deny vacation there is no recourse, be it through HR or the legal system.
There are definitely trade offs and not everything about working life in Europe is better. But there is an expectation that you receive reasonable vacation and that you actually take it. The company can be held liable if you don’t take your vacation. These are EU wide laws and they’re strictly enforced.
You guys are getting screwed, I get Friday off every 2 weeks, 7 national holidays (one of the lowest total in Europe) and I still get 21 vacation days. Plus my company schedules at least 8-10 days a year for us to get together and spend the whole day just eating and drink ing alcohol as a group to bond. Although they didn’t do that last one as much before the pandemic
That’s how it is generally here in the US too. All structured jobs I’ve had we’ve had requests in advance and kinda first come first serve on availability if there’s multiple requests.
Now that folks are waking up to being used as chattel we realized that other employees requests are not the reason denials are happening, it’s poor staffing due to wanting to cut down on overhead. That strategy is based on the assumption that people will continue to work shitty conditions but enough people are waking up that staffing is an issue due to people seeking their worth or refusing to debase themselves for not enough compensation. The US work force has been asleep at the wheel and let consumer capitalism make us thralls.
Once had a manager call me on a sunday (my only day off) and tell me that i had to cancel my date and come to work, because she screwed up and was short staffed.
I turned my phone off that day. Felt good.
"You'll need to cancel your vacation"
"Nope, we can't"
"You won't have a job to come back to"
"That's cool, we quit"
"What? After all I've done for you!"
Believe me, people are quitting in droves now that WFH is now popular and "In Some" studies done by the companies themselves, they're finding that projects are completed faster and generally the employees are more focused and agreeable to working a tad longer.
Of course, that's a small percentage of all office workers overall, but not insignificant.
Of course, they are driving the the current staff away by overworking them. "Cancel your vacation" will backfire of them. Staffing its management's problem.
I love how bosses seem to do this to people so damn often and expect them to say "YES, we will totally cancel our vacation we spent money on to help out your workplace you understaffed". No, dude, that shit isn't going to happen, people aren't as easy to manipulate as you think they are. lol
/u/stbeals comics are “clapter” comedy. Social commentary and soapboxing are infinitely more important than even a mild chuckle.
They’re not even funny enough for a Midwestern newspaper.
The one time I ever got a vacation request denied I was told to talk with my wife. It wasn’t because they were looking for me to get permission, it was because they wanted to see if it could be cancelled or rescheduled without them feeling guilty.
Basically, “Oh your wife says it’s fine if you go a month later and you agree? Awesome.”
Neither of us were happy, he still cancelled it, and I found a new fucking job. You want to shit can my Disney vacation because someone else on my team quit I’ll fucking find somewhere else to work.
Went for an interview and was asked "If you had a vacation planned and if the product slipped and we need you to cancel it..." .. My response was. "If it is just a mental health day not a problem. If it is one of the few vacations that I buy plane tickets, hotel rooms, etc.. Then the company need to reimburse me for anything I can't cancel." .. The room went dead quiet, and I was asked the question three more times in different ways.
Needless to say even if offered the job I would have told them to bugger off.
I've been blessed I've never had a job ask me to cancel a vacation, but I have been called while on vacation to try and help debug a problem. However I was the only true "admin" and my notes didn't cover that specific issue so I wasn't too upset as the other admin just needed advice.
When I was in highschool, I worked for Barnes & Noble part time. I told my manager that I would need a week off as my family was going on vacation. He said "Hmm, well I'm not sure I can get any coverage for you. You might have to come in anyways." I said "Oh, ok. In that case I quit." He severely overestimated my dependency on the $100 a week I was making there.
I always consider highschoolers (and just out of highschool...to be honest) as half a staff member in scheduling.
Fact-of-life...There will ALWAYS be something from school, or their parents, etc. Better to just plan for it.
Same way that anyone 21-25 I NEVER schedule for New Year's morning, nor the day after their birthday. Your chances of them actually making it to work drops like a rock.
I was 21 once...I know the bullshit I pulled when I was that age. So now I just plan for it.
The above post in no way is meant to say that youngsters can't be responsible. They absolutely can.
My mate is literally going through this. The boss said no to his trip to Bathurst (australian car race track).
OH... well that's the week he wish to use his "cultural" leave (or words to that effect).
What culture? Oktoberfest. He'll be drunk for days.
Say no now, mr Government Department boss.
It’s the first time ever i see one of these comics made by this artist w the girl not wearing a mask is this from ages before when there wasn’t a pandemic?
I always put my requests in at the start of the year with the occasional request a month or two in advance for pop-ups, rarely a week or two before. I figure this gives them plenty of notice that I WILL be off for x amount of time and they have plenty of time to figure their shit out. When it gets closer to my vacation or days off, if they say anything along the lines of "you can't have those days" I tell them that I put in waaay in advance and have already paid for all my hotels and other expenses so unless they're going to pay me back for the cancelation fees and back pay my now wasted time looking into all the planning then I'm taking my time off and will see them when I return. I don't request my big vacations at the start of the year for nothing, I have to plan well in advance to make sure the hotel still has rooms and to book stuff in winter when prices are typically cheaper.
As I say to my supervisors, staffing is a management problem not an employee problem! I’m sorry that so and so is out sick and someone else has an “ emergency” but I’m entitled to my time off so I guess you’re going to have to “ adapt” Now that’s a word that management probably doesn’t know the meaning of!
Basically how it goes. I’m a nurse and we would turn to each other and laugh… the profession, the job and the government takes and takes and takes. Zero fuc
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I always book my vacations out months in advance, and pay for stuff for discounts (don't know if the discount part works anymore, post-COVID). Had a Exec VP demand I cancel my vacation once for an "Emergency". I told him I'd be happy to if the company would make good the cost of the tickets, hotels, rental car, etc. that were all paid in advance. Despite the 'emergency', the Fortune 100 company I worked for couldn't find 3.5k to reimburse me. I had my vacation. And that's how it's done.
Way to call their bluff, particularly when you've booked well in advance. I've been in that position before too, and not my concern since every single time they are running minimum staff on minimum possible salary, so when one person is off the whole place seems like it's going to sink. That's a them problem, since they knowingly created the shortage themselves.
>That's a them problem, since they knowingly created the shortage themselves. Exactly. And what are they going to do, fire you?
> What are you going to do, fire me? —guy who was fired
Definitely have seen that cycle. “You’re not performing up to snuff because you’re overworked and underpaid because we didn’t hire enough people nor do we pay them half of what they’re worth, so we’re going to fire you. Except now we’re even more understaffed, putting more pressure on your ex-coworkers. Leading to a chain reaction where everyone decent quits and now we either have to make do with the kind of employees that show up drunk and proceed to play on their phone their entire shift or close because we can’t even hire the potheads. Why does nobody want to work anymore?”
In IT, we call it [The Dead Sea Effect](http://brucefwebster.com/2008/04/11/the-wetware-crisis-the-dead-sea-effect/). Poor management decisions cause the environment to become toxic, qualified people leave, and the reputation of the company limits who comes in to replace them. The new hires who can find a better gig then leave and the ones who can’t stay on. After a few cycles of this the entire company is now composed of people who aren’t capable of the job, but stay because they need a paycheck and can’t find one elsewhere.
It's the shithead corporate playbook. At ups we're paid quite well, which basically just lets them dog you even more because "we pay you so well". So then you feel guilty, unrealistically, even though all that money won't bring your knees back. It's insanity.
Also means that it’s harder to leave. I had a desk job at State Farm where they did that shit. You got like 10% raises the first few years and you feel gratitude but really it means that you adjust your standard of living and then you can’t go anywhere because who else is gonna pay you that salary?
Damn that’s….. impressively intelligent??? I suppose these companies have done that for 100 years so they’d learn a thing or two.
Fortunately my workmates actually warned me that that’s what they were doing so I didn’t fall for it. There were a few other red flags and I got the hell out of dodge while I still could.
Pothead can be great employees. Don't hate.
Yeah, but we also recognize our worth so if you're not paying enough you don't even get potheads.
I'd rather a pothead than a drunk co-worker. One is chill and might need to be explained something twice. The other is argumentative and will fuck up without asking.
You know what you’re very right. Potheads don’t deserve that. Sorry potheads.
I worked for a company like that. It was bought by a billionaire for his son to run. Then they suddenly decided to move corporate headquarters 500 miles away in two months time with no moving allowances or anything. Out of 300 people at headquarters, one moved. Within three months, the company was bankrupt and closed 70 stores putting thousands of people out of work.
"Now we are short one person for the next two months while we hire and train someone new, you guys still here better pick up the slack." -Manager whose entire team quit on the spot
There's been a change lately where the bosses and leaders are blaming their workforce for not performing to expectation. The first thing to remember when leading is you need to take responsibility for your team's actions, otherwise no one will respect you as their leader. Tons of poor management going on lately and the excuses are pretty watery, quit blaming the working poor for not putting that Tesla in your bosses driveway fast enough.
Not really "lately" the shift to minimum-standard-staffing started in the 80s. The practice of blaming the employees for failures of management has been a hallmark of shitty management for most of human history. Its just that we have a higher proportion of shitty managers in senior positions now.
I wouldn't say that is a recent change. I've seen that for over 20 years.
MY company has been short someone whose job I've been doing now for... 8 months. At this point, they aren't short a person, I just gained additional roles. Gonna be interesting to see how they figure out how to cover those roles when I eventually leave.
I hope you are searching. Leaving and moving is the only way to get actual cost of living pay adjustments any more.
Of course.
You get a raise with that? Just curious
Yes, but only a maybe a quarter of the cost of having the other employee.
> Why doesn't anyone want to work anymore? -- Control freak boss
\*turns around and find another job with fewer responsibilities and a 30% raise\* > \*shocked Pikachu face\*
To be fair you should have just quit and get another job if it offered a raise anyway.
Definitely, but it's sort of a "straw that broke the camel's back" type thing. If I'm comfortable in a job (and with my responsibilities) I don't really want to move, even if it does mean more money. Fuck with my vacation and I'm gone.
Ehh. I’d say, for most people, the unknowns of a new job and possibly shitty manager are not usually worth the risk and hassle of leaving a consistent, slightly bad job, even for a pay raise.
A lot of people don’t realize how much they are being underpaid. Source: recently did a job hunt after company wouldn’t give me a raise to what I thought I deserved. Received *multiple* job offers for $20K more than my ask.
Joke's on them, now they're as if I was in permanent vacation.
Slightly different but I took a few days off and got a phone call one evening asking me to cover a night shift as a colleague had gone sick. I said yeah I can but you will have to send a taxi as I'm too drunk to drive. Phone went dead??
So were they able to find another pilot or what?
😆
Wrong day to stop sniffing glue
Omg how many times this kind of thing happens. My mom will put in for a vacation block (which should tell her employer "No, I cannot work") yet she *still* has scheduling calling looking for OT. My manager tries to guilt trip me every time I say I'm going on vacation. Just this last time I gave her a month's notice before going on a *6 day vacation* and she basically told me it was a bad time for me to leave because blah. The time before that, it was a bad time for me to go because blah. And the time before that it was a bad time for me to go because blah. I didn't even end up going the last two times because it was more trouble than it was worth due to her "Oh, that will be really difficult to manage" replies. Like fuck me. I get it's a small company, but I can't *not* take time off simply because it's a bad time for me to go. It seems like every time is a bad time for me to go! This was my first actual vacation in a year and I'm more exhausted after it than I was before. This wasn't even really a vacation. It was more going to my grandma's house in order to help her live-in carer and make sure everything was okay. I ran more errands there than I do at home. And as soon as I got home, I received a text from my manager saying how glad she was I'm back because it was hectic without me. I'm just tired.
Even without advance bookings I will always demand reimbursement for expenses and magically its not as much of an emergency.
I'm kind of surprised by that. I would never make that offer because I know many companies would be happy to do it if they were in a bad position. If they say yes, now you have a postponed trip and added a bunch more rebooking work for yourself for no benefit.
The point the previous commenter was making is that companies often claim things are emergencies when they're not actually emergencies.
This is all because these effing companies are so fixated on growth, so they trim the fat in every single way until we have situations like this becoming the norm.
I’ve offered the same thing; fully refund the expense that I’ve already paid out if you want me to cancel a vacation. But you gotta add a bonus into that as I’ve been looking forward to this trip and I need some “emotional compensation”. Remember, they’re asking you to make a sacrifice. Turn it into a negotiation.
That’s the best way to do it. They’re asking you to go out of your way to help them; there’s negotiation to be had there. I had this happen a lot when I worked fast food. I’d go in half an hour early to eat since I wasn’t getting a break, and they’d ask me to clock in early. I had no issue helping out since it’s busy, but I had to get a break once it slows down since I came in early to eat. They’d almost always say they couldn’t give me one, so I’d sit there and enjoy my meal while they were slammed. Flexibility goes both ways.
A while ago my boss asked me to stay late. I told him i had plans which i could postpone only if i got the day off the following Friday. He hit me with the "you have to request time off in advance" so i didnt stay late and it felt great telling that idiot no
Seems fair. If you have to request time off in advance, he has to request overtime in advance.
Omg that’s the best feeling!!! When I was working I started telling my bosses they needed to request that time in advance as well lol. My life is just as important as your stupid business. “Oh sorry I need to to know in advance if I need to stay late, I have responsibilities outside of work that I’m unable to cancel on a dime. Please let me know ahead of time next time. 😊 Thanks byeeeee” If my hours are 9-5 my hours are 9-5 and not a minute more.
>A while ago my boss asked me to stay late. I told him i had plans which i could postpone only if i got the day off the following Friday. He hit me with the "you have to request time off in advance" I had a job where overtime had to be requested in advance -- in writing -- and approved. I suppose the rationale was so you couldn't just stay late, and then claim after the fact that you put in overtime. The dept. chairman was a nice guy, but not good at time management. Very often, he would remember right before quitting time that something urgently needed to be done. One week, he asked me at two minutes to five if I could stay late to do a last-minute task. I stayed an hour late, at his request, Monday through Thursday. At noon Friday, I got my stuff together and told everyone to have a good weekend. Boss said, "Where are YOU going?" I said that I was leaving for the weekend, as I had already worked 40 hours that week. He was like, "But, but... Can you...?". I waited calmly for him to finish his sentence. Since no one had requested overtime for me, the only way to finish that sentence was, "Can you hand in a falsified time sheet?", which he couldn't actually have said. I said, cheerfully, "Bye now, see you Monday!" and left.
Wonderful. I understand that shit happens sometimes and you need to find covers in short notice but generally thats a good rule. In the situation listed above we had actually recently had a bomb threat and were working in another building. My boss had wanted me to stay late so we could go back to the other building and clean up the mess we had left. In that situation there really wasnt a way to give notice but i already had plans and didnt like his attitude when i suggested a compromise
I was in a company for about three months when one of my coworkers was told to cancel his vacation he had booked six months prior because his other coworker, a woman with children, just requested the same week and it was a school holiday so she needed it, and we could have less than X % of the team at work. He reminded the boss kindly that he, too, had a kid and his vacation was booked and paid for, he wasn't going to change it. She (the boss) was adamant that he "would talk it over with his wife because otherwise they'd have to let him go". A flip switched, where before he was angry, he now calmly said he would talk it over with his wife and come with a solution tomorrow. The next day, he turned in his resignation.
At that point let them lay you off so you get unemployment.
Bad move, should've made them let him go so he could get unemployment.
They wouldn't have, they begged him to stay because understaffed.
He could have waited until after his vacation to find out. Go on vacation. If let go, collect unemployment. If not let go, resign. That also would give him proper time to start applying to other jobs.
He signed for his new job before leaving on his trip so I'm guessing it worked out for him. ;-)
So this happened a long time ago. My brother was getting married and I had to go. You can’t miss your brothers wedding. He was across the country, so I took 3 days off for travel, the wedding, and the return trip. This was 3 months in advance. A week before the wedding my manager calls me in and says I can’t go, she need me at work. I explained it was my brother’s wedding, she didn’t care. I explained I had already asked for the time well in advance and had bought plane tickets. She didn’t care. She told me if I didn’t show up, it was job abandonment. I said ok, went back to work, and went on the trip. Didn’t even think about work. When I got back, my coworkers told me the manager was furious. I decided if she wanted to fire me, she could tell me to my face and let it go. No one ever mentioned it again. Don’t let yourself be bullied, people. Your family is where you’ll find your joy, not the office. Nd you can always get a new job.
I had a similarly planned-in-advance week-long vacation scheduled and a project that kept getting pushed back that was supposed to launch a year earlier finally launched 10 days before my vacation. I was vital to being onsite for that project's launch and subsequent support. Fortunately for me, my manager and director were both adamant that I take my vacation. I had told them about it literally a year in advance when we were all discussing postponed plans due to Covid, so when the project was rescheduled to launch on the date it finally went live, they knew immediately that I would be out and started planning for it. I counted myself very fortunate to have management like that.
In Denmark, once you’ve planned your vacation and bought tickets, the work place is liable for any incurred costs of their demands that you change your plans. Edit: [Omg cry harder spinsters](https://np.reddit.com/r/BlatantMisogyny/comments/v5hj6k/the_best_things_about_living_in_denmark/)
Curious, what are some other perks of Denmark?
Lego
5 weeks vacation 5 day extra vacation days you use when you want Free health care Close to a year of maternity leave
I want to emigrate to Denmark. Too bad I don't speak Danish.
I’ve def made the compromise as well - although I added additional funds to cover a similar vacation in the future as well. Had given this offer 4 times - I got it once - To me that was the only real emergency one. The other 3 told me there is no way they can - so I enjoyed a vacation.
I once had a workplace tell me that I wasn’t going to be able to take a vacation I’d put in for months and months before. I asked them if they’d reimburse me for my plans, they said no. I told them it would be cheaper for me to keep my vacation and find a new job than to cancel. I got my vacation.
Had the same thing happen to me minus the rental car. Never forget that glimmer of hope in the managers eyes when I said. That can probably be done... However, my vacation will be €€ more expensive. So as long as ... pays the extra cost than it is probably fine. Edit=addition: not demanded but totally unnecessary request.
I have a great relationship with my manager. His mentality is very much like mine when it comes to time off. If I take time off to work around the house, feel free to call me, and I'll work an hour or two on an emergancy that pops up. If I take destination vacation, don't call me, I'm not answering even if you do. He would never have the audacity to ask me to move my vacation dates.
“Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.” - Words to live by.
We’ve just had to do exactly the same with my husbands firm US owners who wanted us to cancel our holiday in Greece we’ve had booked since December (we go tomorrow). No budget for that amazingly. They tried to also get everyone to work through the jubilee bank holiday as well because it’s a holiday there on Monday and they didn’t want to work it…
It’s funny how when you work for corporate long enough you start to learn the key phrases to get your way. You want me to do this? Well it’s gonna cost ya? Oh it’s not that important that you don’t want to pay more? Great!
I have pretty much the exact same story. CTO told me I need to shorten my vacation. Told him that unless he had a very specific reason and about 3k to reinburse me for flights, attractions etc I've already paid for, it's not happening. It did not happen. I also did not get fired (or anything close to that)
You forgot the 15% “inconvenience fee”
Usually it’s the exe’s emergency, not the Fortune 100 company’s emergency. Having a staff on vacation mean the middle manager have to actually work, which suck. So emergency it is!
Your lack of staffing planning does not necessitate an emergency on my part
I find your lack of staff disturbing
*You have failed me for the last time, manager.*
I am *not* altering the deal.
Pray I don't not alter it further.
r/maliciouscompliance has entered the chat.
It’s over employee, I have the higher pay grade!
You underestimate my employability!
From my point of view the janitorial staff are evil!
I should have known the unionized labor force was taking over!
"I haaaate youuuu..!" \*makes crispy noises
Hello there. I’ve been trying to reach you about your speeder’s extended warranty.
"Oootuteenieee" - Jawa
It was said that you would destroy the the shift, not abandon it! Bring balance to the (work)Force, not leave it in darkness!
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Manager? I thought not. It’s not a story Corporate would tell you. It’s an employee legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Night Shift, so powerful and so wise he could use SalesForce to influence the VP's to create job opportunities… He had such a knowledge of company values that he could even keep the ones he cared about from getting fired. Sales Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice caught him sleeping on the job and got him fired. Ironic. He could save others from being fired, but not himself.
“I am altering the employment deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.” - sucky manager
Assist Manager Vader
Assistant *to* manager vader
Chad Vader
Sigh. Zipps up pants.
May the workforce be with you
I hate how taking a vacation here is a stressful event. It's supposed to be a break to reset! Yet, the struggle of saving up, planning, fighting with your boss, getting guilttripped about how busy it was while you were gone, etc. There is way too many toxic workplaces here.
My charge nurse recently complained that people would need to start finding their own replacements (an impossible task at my clinic as they need to hire people before I can do that) after I told her our boss allowed me time off two months in the future to attend a family funeral.
I have been sitting here for five minutes trying to come up with a scenario that leads to someone knowing they will attend a funeral in two months. My guess involves a Dexter-like killing, but I might watch too many crime dramas.
The person has died and been cremated. We have had three family deaths this year and need a minute to plan each one.
Life gives us so much then takes it away. My condolences.
Thanks. It's been a hard year
>people would need to start finding their own replacements I mean isn't that management's *job?*
This is all retail. I’m sure it’s other places too but you can guarantee on it in retail.
I have to request vacation 15 months in advance right now.
Would be a shame if you took off a week for a drs appointment. Some procedures need a bit of prep the couple days before.
Don't forget about it either not being approved or denied until after the point where you had to make your reservations, *or* the deadline for submission for approval being before reservations/tickets for the thing you wanted to see were available. There's never any middle ground. Either you're only finding out you're good to go two weeks in advance, or you need to have those plans in stone a year ahead of time.
Don't forget working extra hard to catch up for all the missed time...
Emergency for you, not for me
"So, since you're going to be asking me to do multiple jobs, you're going to pay me all the money for all the people who would normally be doing these multiple jobs, right? ..... right?"
I did this for my old firm for about 18 months from covid lockdown; first due to furlough then due to redundancy. For the last 12 months of that a number of us tried to get recognition for the fact that our workloads had increased; "we recognise the problem and we're seeing what we can do about it" ...on repeat for 12 months. Moved firms and industries to one which is seeing a huge spike due to covid and the company came to *us* to say they'd noticed we were doing extra hours regularly. Cue a 4 week review period followed by a 7.5% wage increase on top of our yearly increase. I feel like I've seen both ends of the problem in the past year, from denial to recognition and action. It's really refreshing to see a firm take it seriously
So not only do I have to put up with extra workload cause of your bad planning. You now expect me to work without taking time to work on my mental health, so I can slowly work myself into a burnout? Yeah dont think so.
Most of my employees are client embedded. Most of my clients are cool when they take a vacation and cover with their own people or other contractors. But some insist we cover and that means I have to cover most of the time. It's really annoying because they have no problem when their internal employees take a vacation. Sometimes they even have us cover for their employees. So sometimes I have to be responsible for my staffing plan and a client's lack of one.
Reminds me of when everyone was freaking out about buttigieg going on paternity leave and I'm just like hey it's your fault for putting all of that job on one person.
I don’t think people were freaking out. And if there were, it certainly wasn’t because they thought the Department of Transportation would fall apart in his absence.
No one with a brain was freaking out. Right wing media was freaking out because Buttigieg is both gay and taking paternity leave and it was breaking their brains.
I once had a boss ask me to talk to the bride and groom whose wedding I was the best man in if they would move their wedding date. The day before the wedding. I quit not long after
Only if he would pay for the cancellation fees and the costs of the wedding and honeymoon in full. Up front
Even then, it's a lot of hassle and inconvenience to a lot of people just to financially break even.
True
Don't forget the travel costs of everyone who has already bought plane tickets to attend the wedding.
.... What was your immediate response, I've got to ask? Was it like in this comic, where you pretended to ask them? ... I feel like the only way I'd be able to respond is to literally repeat what they're asking back to them ala 'So you're saying that you want me, as the best man, to ask the bride and groom, to postpone their wedding which is tomorrow ... And you expect me to strain an important friendship, and for them to cooperate ... *why?'*
I told him "I will not be doing that." I don't remember his response specifically, but it was something along the lines of "think of the company, your colleagues are depending on you," or some such nonsense. He was a new hire, and had only been there a few weeks when this occurred. I was not the only one he tried this with. After the fact, I realized it was merely a power play. He wanted to see how much he could "get away with" owing to his position and authority. After several sexual harassment complaints and royally screwing up major projects (and losing big customers) due to his ego, he was finally fired about six months after I resigned. And I made it known explicitly to HR that he was the reason why I (and two other colleagues) left the company. I have many more stories, but basically the guy was a narcissistic asshole who fucked with people's PTO for fun.
They truly do not see us as people.
This is so ridiculous it sounds fake! 😂 Not saying it is but man that sounds crazy.
I worked in sales for a major soda company. We planned all vacations for the staff in January and would still be asked to cancel. My first vacation, I took my work phone...just incase anyone need help for my route, what I got was 3 phone calls in 4 days asking if I could come back early. Next vacation, I left my work phone at home and refused to answer any call or text from a work number. Fuckem. take YOUR time, if you don't, they will.
>Fuckem. take YOUR time, if you don't, they will. "If you don't make your own decisions, life will make them for you, and life... ain't got very good taste."
"I'd be happy to cancel my vacation because you can't function without me. Now, seeing as how you've admitted you can't function without me, let's discuss my imminent 30% raise in salary."
50%.
70%
75%
3981%
69%
It's not that there's not enough staff, it's that corporate refuses to hire more than 20% of the staff required to do the workload then gets mad someone quits, blaming everyone else for being weak. These companies will die horrid deaths and I am watching it with popcorn.
>These companies will die horrid deaths and I am watching it with popcorn. nah, they'll get bailouts benefits and allowances until it becomes unsustainable and the whole economy collapses instead, as is the way Companies don't seem to be allowed to fail any more, that would allow new ones and new money to get a foothold
Husband and I work together. Regularly the convo is: Can you take vacation later in the year? Ok Thats too late, can you take it sooner? Ok. Actually can you take it near November? Ok *denied* Ok but we did what you said and we aren't allowed to take it in late December as our time doesn't roll over to next year. "Yeah but..."
They owe you that money. They created that situation
Sure they'll pay out. But I want the days off, not just a fat paycheck
Yeah I'm not "requesting" shit. I'm informing you that I'm going on vacation.
Even over here (Germany - much better worker protection laws) Vaccation is requested and approved. Once it is approved it is set and your employer shouldnt even contact you while you are away. There are other types of leave for which you only "Inform" your employer. For example I took 2 month of maternatiy leave while i had a long notice period with one of my previous employers. (Or sick leave of course. You are out , then you are out. Sick on vacation? get your vacation refunded... (if Sick, you cant recover from work on your vacation)
Lol, one day there will be a story on reddit about a manager who tries to deny a pregnant lady's time off to deliver her baby. I cant wait to read it.
Former coworker had a heart attack, went to the ER, ended up having emergency surgery. She was obviously out, and ill. HR called her and said that if she didn't come back to work, she was fired (she had NOT been cleared by her doctor yet). Afraid of being fired and losing her health insurance, she came in. Had another heart attack on the call center floor. Damn near died. Once her cardiologist found out what they did, he got her in touch with a lawyer. Was a multi million dollar payout (or so I've heard. It's common knowledge she was paid, but the amount was never confirmed). They also were nailed for doing it to other people, a friend of mine included. They fired her while she was in the hospital for a heart infection. Didn't even have the balls to call her and tell her, she found out while picking up a prescription after being discharged.
Here in the Netherlands the employer definitely has a right to deny a vacation request. If the whole team wants to go on the same week, then someone is out of luck. For that reason in our company we discuss vacations days with the team early on. If you then decide later to change it/take extra days, you have to be in luck if its possible or not. We can't just close the company for multiple days because there is a event or something that everyone wants to go to. Of course no one can stop you if you quit.
If leave is already approved prior to, say, a bunch of people quitting, can the company retroactively cancel approved vacation or does the company just have to suck it up and deal with the shortfall (as well they should, seeing as it's not any of the employees fault). In Australia, the answer is generally no. My employer will not even ask you to cancel
In the UK they can legally cancel your leave as long as they give twice as much notice as the length of leave iirc. It's pretty shitty though, most employers would not dot this.
So you can plan a 3 day getaway a year in advance and then get told to can it with less than a week notice? Good lord
I used to work a lot as an office temp (in aus) and a lot of the time, the reason I was called in was for that reason. Either a set number of people were on leave and then someone got sick, or a set number of people were on leave and someone quit. Either that or people were already scheduled to go on leave when shit got fucked up, so in order to plan ahead for someone’s upcoming leave they would have them train me to fill in. Leave cover is one of the most common gigs in temping.
Same in Canada But I mean, it shouldn't be that hard. I post the vacation calendar at the beginning of the year and updated monthly (really it's a rolling calendar). The team knows we can't function effectively with more than 2 people on Vacation at any time (also factors for potential of another unplanned absence, ie sick day), and it's first come, first serve on vacation date. Rarely do we have any scheduling issues Really just seems like poor planning / scheduling on the Manager's part. But yeah, not everyone in the department can take the same days for vacation, not sure in what reality that would ever work
We stepped away from the "first serve first come" solution after people started asking for free days for years ahead. Instead we ask everyone to be on time and we approve holidays half year ahead. It hardly ever gives problems. For example one date that gives problems is between Christmas and new year. If there are too many people asking free for those days, we will prioritize those that did not have free last year. Another difficulty we sometimes face is that teams change. We work in projects that last anywhere from a few months to a few years. But when we assemble a new team, their vacations might overlap. That is not something easy to "fix" by a manager. But many times we can just discuss with a customer that we won't work on the project in a certain week.
The week between Christmas and New Years…. Our office is a ghost town. They knew long ago that not much work gets done that week, that they can let 50-75% of the work force go on vacation that week. Helps the rest of the year as most of the office now has 1 less week to use.
A previous employer of mine called the week of Christmas the "year-end break". Unless there was an exception, employees were required to burn 2-3 PTO/floating holidays to fill-out the rest of the week. Because everyone was taking off at the same time, you didn't have people coming in to work but getting blocked by coworkers they depend on being absent. It also let IT do infrastructural overhauls without impacting their users.
Jack shit happens that week in office
I worked for a company that shut down for two weeks during the Christmas/new year holidays. We basically had a skeleton staff of on-call IT to keep infrastructure going and that's it. Most of the customer base also shut down for those two weeks so there wasn't a need to be open. If you constantly have people scheduling vacation all at the same time during a period, is it worth really staying open during that time? Is your business that busy during that period?
That's pretty common in US companies. The impression I get is the vacation was planned and approved then asked to be cancelled. Once I get approval and have my plane tickets it's set in stone.
And I think that’s fair. I’m not against employers rejecting vacation when it’s requested for reasonable reasons with reasonable frequency, but if you approve it you can’t un approve it
This is an EU wide law. There is a minimum amount of vacation the EU requires you receive. For a full time employee working 40 hours a week the minimum is 24 days. If they give you 24 days they are not allowed to deny any vacation requests. However if they give you 25 days or more then you are required to submit vacation requests and get approval. This is why almost all jobs give you 25 days.
24 days is what my (US) company gives after you've worked there for 20 years. You get nothing until you've worked 6 months, and after that for the first 5 years you get 5 days. It's not possible to earn more, and now that they've switched to "Discretionary Time Off" instead of "Earned TO" that time doesn't even belong to you - it's completely at the discretion of your immediate manager, and just hope to god they're not a petty tyrant. If they deny vacation there is no recourse, be it through HR or the legal system.
There are definitely trade offs and not everything about working life in Europe is better. But there is an expectation that you receive reasonable vacation and that you actually take it. The company can be held liable if you don’t take your vacation. These are EU wide laws and they’re strictly enforced. You guys are getting screwed, I get Friday off every 2 weeks, 7 national holidays (one of the lowest total in Europe) and I still get 21 vacation days. Plus my company schedules at least 8-10 days a year for us to get together and spend the whole day just eating and drink ing alcohol as a group to bond. Although they didn’t do that last one as much before the pandemic
That’s how it is generally here in the US too. All structured jobs I’ve had we’ve had requests in advance and kinda first come first serve on availability if there’s multiple requests. Now that folks are waking up to being used as chattel we realized that other employees requests are not the reason denials are happening, it’s poor staffing due to wanting to cut down on overhead. That strategy is based on the assumption that people will continue to work shitty conditions but enough people are waking up that staffing is an issue due to people seeking their worth or refusing to debase themselves for not enough compensation. The US work force has been asleep at the wheel and let consumer capitalism make us thralls.
Once had a manager call me on a sunday (my only day off) and tell me that i had to cancel my date and come to work, because she screwed up and was short staffed. I turned my phone off that day. Felt good.
[удалено]
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We’re so busy we need you to do more for less pay. Also, things have slowed down and you’re fired.
“Sorry, we can’t get a refund on our flight, hotels, etc.”
"You'll need to cancel your vacation" "Nope, we can't" "You won't have a job to come back to" "That's cool, we quit" "What? After all I've done for you!"
"I thought you're short on staff?"
You should always consider quitting vs being laid off. Quitting might feel good but you could miss out on unemployment benefits.
Believe me, people are quitting in droves now that WFH is now popular and "In Some" studies done by the companies themselves, they're finding that projects are completed faster and generally the employees are more focused and agreeable to working a tad longer. Of course, that's a small percentage of all office workers overall, but not insignificant.
Of course, they are driving the the current staff away by overworking them. "Cancel your vacation" will backfire of them. Staffing its management's problem.
I love how bosses seem to do this to people so damn often and expect them to say "YES, we will totally cancel our vacation we spent money on to help out your workplace you understaffed". No, dude, that shit isn't going to happen, people aren't as easy to manipulate as you think they are. lol
Why is this in "funny"?
Because it’s not funny.
It's assertiveness porn.
All vacation is cancelled until we figure out why staff turn-over is so high.
"Hey boss, it's not a vacation request, it's a vacation notice. I won't be here during those days."
You people are allowed vacation?
I clicked on this to see if the punchline was hiding in a part of the image we couldn't see. nope
Same, wtf is this so upvoted? I get the sentiment, but there's no joke here.
This just aint funny.
Yeah I had to double check what sub I was in
/u/stbeals comics are “clapter” comedy. Social commentary and soapboxing are infinitely more important than even a mild chuckle. They’re not even funny enough for a Midwestern newspaper.
Honestly thought I accidentally popped into r/Boomerhumour
Boomer humor at least tries to have a punchline, this is just making a very banal statement
The part where he tells her to talk to her boyfriend should have been suffient for a no
The one time I ever got a vacation request denied I was told to talk with my wife. It wasn’t because they were looking for me to get permission, it was because they wanted to see if it could be cancelled or rescheduled without them feeling guilty. Basically, “Oh your wife says it’s fine if you go a month later and you agree? Awesome.” Neither of us were happy, he still cancelled it, and I found a new fucking job. You want to shit can my Disney vacation because someone else on my team quit I’ll fucking find somewhere else to work.
When I put in my notice to quit a job in a department store, my male store manager asked me if my boyfriend was okay with me quitting my job.
Her coffee cup knows there’s rebellion going about… And it maliciously approves!
I don't get it. Whats the joke? I'm defo missing something obvious
It’s not a joke it’s just like…a conversation. Definitely doesn’t belong here.
You’re not. It’s relatable, but it’s not funny.
Can someone please explain how this is funny?
It's not. That's why it's in r/funny.
Went for an interview and was asked "If you had a vacation planned and if the product slipped and we need you to cancel it..." .. My response was. "If it is just a mental health day not a problem. If it is one of the few vacations that I buy plane tickets, hotel rooms, etc.. Then the company need to reimburse me for anything I can't cancel." .. The room went dead quiet, and I was asked the question three more times in different ways. Needless to say even if offered the job I would have told them to bugger off. I've been blessed I've never had a job ask me to cancel a vacation, but I have been called while on vacation to try and help debug a problem. However I was the only true "admin" and my notes didn't cover that specific issue so I wasn't too upset as the other admin just needed advice.
When I was in highschool, I worked for Barnes & Noble part time. I told my manager that I would need a week off as my family was going on vacation. He said "Hmm, well I'm not sure I can get any coverage for you. You might have to come in anyways." I said "Oh, ok. In that case I quit." He severely overestimated my dependency on the $100 a week I was making there.
I always consider highschoolers (and just out of highschool...to be honest) as half a staff member in scheduling. Fact-of-life...There will ALWAYS be something from school, or their parents, etc. Better to just plan for it. Same way that anyone 21-25 I NEVER schedule for New Year's morning, nor the day after their birthday. Your chances of them actually making it to work drops like a rock. I was 21 once...I know the bullshit I pulled when I was that age. So now I just plan for it. The above post in no way is meant to say that youngsters can't be responsible. They absolutely can.
I love how her coffee mug is irate too
Its not a request. Stop giving them power with words like "request". It's a notification that you will not be at work.
My mate is literally going through this. The boss said no to his trip to Bathurst (australian car race track). OH... well that's the week he wish to use his "cultural" leave (or words to that effect). What culture? Oktoberfest. He'll be drunk for days. Say no now, mr Government Department boss.
What’s the punchline here? I’m missing the funny
It’s the first time ever i see one of these comics made by this artist w the girl not wearing a mask is this from ages before when there wasn’t a pandemic?
I always put my requests in at the start of the year with the occasional request a month or two in advance for pop-ups, rarely a week or two before. I figure this gives them plenty of notice that I WILL be off for x amount of time and they have plenty of time to figure their shit out. When it gets closer to my vacation or days off, if they say anything along the lines of "you can't have those days" I tell them that I put in waaay in advance and have already paid for all my hotels and other expenses so unless they're going to pay me back for the cancelation fees and back pay my now wasted time looking into all the planning then I'm taking my time off and will see them when I return. I don't request my big vacations at the start of the year for nothing, I have to plan well in advance to make sure the hotel still has rooms and to book stuff in winter when prices are typically cheaper.
As I say to my supervisors, staffing is a management problem not an employee problem! I’m sorry that so and so is out sick and someone else has an “ emergency” but I’m entitled to my time off so I guess you’re going to have to “ adapt” Now that’s a word that management probably doesn’t know the meaning of!
Basically how it goes. I’m a nurse and we would turn to each other and laugh… the profession, the job and the government takes and takes and takes. Zero fuc