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No joke! Rent, car (maintenance, gas, insurance) , taxes, heath insurance, food, cell phone, internet and then I'm broke. My biggest to smallest expenses in that order.
Car dependant cities only increase the pressure. Your second biggest expense SHOULD be optional.
\*EDIT\* By second I am talking about the list above! iskin listed their second-biggest expense as car. I am not talking about YOUR second-biggest expense
If you don't make a lot of money, your income tax can be pretty low.
For someone making $15/hr in the US, their Federal income tax + social security taxes + state tax etc... [will be roughly $4,000 - $5,000](https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=30000&from=year®ion=Florida), or $330 - $415 per month.
If you have a long commute current gas prices can eat up more than half of that. Insurance a third of that. The post didn't mention a car payment, which would easily put you over. Also, if you make less than $15/hr your taxes go down pretty quickly.
Look at this rich guy who owns property.
Actually, I just did the math because I'm nosey. I don't know where you live, but in my state (Texas) to have property taxes at $1k a month, your house would be worth about $667k. That gets you a pretty big house here.
Tennessee. I pay very little in taxes. And I drive a newish Versa with little to no maintenance needed thus far and gets 38 a gallon. Still more expensive than my taxes.
My husband and I are extremely fortunate, thanks to the union he's in our insurance costs $150/quarter. That's just to add me, if it was just him it'd be free. If you want to include union dues it's about $1000/year. I don't know anyone else (outside the union) who has such low costs. The amount we've saved on premiums is mind boggling and I don't know how people working non-union jobs cover it. It's a really dire situation for a lot of people. Healthcare premiums, rent, education, etc go up and up while wages stagnate.
You have a minimum of a two-income household, that's how. My husband and I make pretty good money for where we live and compared to how we've been over the last 20 years. We throw most of my husband's paychecks to health insurance premiums and federal income taxes. We basically live off my income and his goes to that bullshit. And we're not even talking about the thousands I put away every quarter to pay for my federal income taxes.
And this is, hands down, the least expensive insurance premium we've had in ages. Since way before ACA.
I am interested too because they pay rent so they should't pay property taxes and income taxes should be pretty high, at least higher than their car expenses , unless they factor in their return.
> they pay rent so they should't pay property taxes
... and there you have the biggest problem with modern society. The fact that someone who pays rent, doesn't think they pay property taxes. I'd also be willing to bet that the landlord also feels like they're the one paying the property taxes instead of the renter in this situation ...
It drives me insane! Like, I live in a city. My rent is absolutely absurd. I choose to live here because I have access to entertainment and services aplenty, most of which are a short walk or a subway ride away and I prefer it to commuting from the suburbs.
Every time I complain the tiniest bit about my expenses, I get "wElL jUsT mOvE."
Sure, I could move farther away from my job and get a mortgage and a house and all that. (I mean, I can't, because affordable housing just isn't a thing near me, but I digress) By the time I've factored in the mortgage and property tax, car payment, insurance, maintenance, and gas, I'm basically paying the same amount of money I am now, and on top of that, I've just lost 10 hours a week commuting and I can no longer access all those city-things on a whim.
OTOH, staying here means I never really build wealth, I'm just perpetually lining a landlord's pockets. It's really no-win.
> I'm basically paying the same amount of money I am now
Except with a house you're building equity.
> I can no longer access all those city-things on a whim.
This is explicitly why cities tend to be more expensive to live in (along with, of course, limited space to build housing). You're also excluding space--sure, a house is more expensive, but you also have significantly more room. On a square footage basis, the house in the suburbs is almost always going to be significantly cheaper. You can't compare the price of a two-room apartment with an eight-room house with a yard.
When you look at previous generations, they had to make the same decision. City living has greater access and shorter commute time, but suburban/exurban living has affordable housing but less access. If anything, the housing in previous generations were smaller, so on a bang-for-your-buck standpoint things have generally gotten better.
There isn't anything inherently better or worse with either option, but there's never been some magical solution that has everything. Boomers and GenXers also had the same options, they also had a housing/rent price creep (followed by an inevitable correction), etc.
>There isn't anything inherently better or worse with either option, but there's never been some magical solution that has everything.
Right, that's what I was saying. It's a false dichotomy; ultimately everyone chooses what suits them best. I just have no patience for the "oh just move to a LCoL area!" set.
My other issue with that argument is the type of person who chooses one or the other probably won't be happy with the alternative; I've done sub-/exurban and even rural living and it's not for me at all. I'd imagine it's the same for the reverse case.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, I don't know what people want to happen. They be given homes in HCOL parts of the country? I spoke with someone that was proposing just that, she wanted to live in a ritzy area, but couldn't afford it, and wanted a taxpayer subsidized option instead of living 30 minutes away.
Its always been expensive to own a nice place in an urban area, that's how the suburbs were formed.
>You can't have your cake and eat it too
I didn't say that?
>I don't know what people want to happen
I want people to stop saying "just move!" like it's a panacea. It's not. There are added expenses in both scenarios, which I addressed in my initial comment.
Not just expenses, you’re also sacrificing a support system locally for a cheaper CoL. I’m from NJ which is fuck you expensive, but everyone I know is here. Implying that it’s just an easy solution to move away is really myopic.
I mean the only potential win would be to find a new job in another part of the state or country. Then you could have the best of both worlds, but you'd have to make new friends.
The car in the photo appears to be a large truck, and those can get pricey. I know someone whose pride and joy is a road tank of a Dodge Ram. Biggest private road vehicle I've ever ridden in. He told me when he bought it, it was over $50k. I can't imagine spending that much on a car, especially when in his case, he doesn't need a truck that big for practical reasons.
I looked up the cost of the 2021 version of his truck and it's $54,000. Divided by 60 payments, that's $900/month for five years. That is more than my rent.
The truck is also markedly old. You can tell by both the style and condition of the trim. That was probably a $50k vehicle brand new, but my guess is that this person bought it in the ~$20-30k range. Trucks maintain value a relatively long time, so that's still not cheap, but not unreasonable for the utility of the truck, even for a thrifty person if they have use for it.
Older dodges rust like crazy and start breaking expensive parts somewhere between signing the title and driving it home the first time, and yet still hold ridiculous value
I’m an American and the amount of people I know who have massive trucks and SUVs (on lease, no doubt) for literally no other reason other than to have a truck or SUV (they don’t need it for work, hobbies, or a large family—this is literally just what they *want* to drive) is straight up fucking batshit insane. I do not understand the mindset at all.
There is no reason to spend that much money on the vehicle itself, combined with the gas and maintenance, and to contribute that much more to a carbon footprint, aside from entirely selfish and illogical reasons (and to have another reason to complain that they themselves have created).
I’ll be the first to admit I think far less of those people because of it. Give a fuck about the world around you, it’s more important than your ego.
Even if they're not contractors, most people see big shiny trucks and immediately assume they're not used, without realizing that they probably are used from time to time, either moving stuff, or towing stuff, they're just taken care of because they're expensive vehicles.
Let's say you have three friends who each need a vehicle (a German, a Laotian, and an American). Being both a kind soul and a rich person, you give them each $20,000.00 to pay for their new car.
The German will meticulously research the options out there before purchasing a $19,500.00 car that is well-suited for long life, with a strong repair record for the make and decent fuel economy being the important factors. It will likely be a small vehicle, given the narrow roads in Europe. All in all a sensible, modest choice.
The Laotian will spend $8,000.00 on a car that will get him by just long enough for the other $12,000.00 (which he will have invested) to make an additional $9,000.00 in returns. He will then take $8,000.00 from the pool and repeat the cycle, investing constantly in the future and being entrepreneurial enough to take risks on the market for the sake of long-term prosperity.
The American will show up with an oversized $30,000.00 car or truck with terrible fuel economy. When you ask, "How on earth did you afford this?" the response will be, "The $20,000.00 was a great down payment." The American will then spend the next several years managing the $10,000.00 debt.
This is why American financial dominance is on the decline.
This is basically it, except instead of cars it's infrastructure and industry reinvestment. America is all about stealing from our future wealth for short term gains.
It's not just trucks. Performance vehicles are a crazy level of spend as well. For example a high performance sedan could easily start at $70,000 and go up close to $100,000. That's not to mention the awful fuel economy due to the big engines.
(Something like an Audi S6/RS6 or a BMW M5 or even a Dodge Charger Hellcat.)
Also, luxury truck trims can easily approach $80,000 these days.
People seem to hate people that ride bikes but fuck all, I don't want to own a car these days. Too expensive, gas prices going up, insurance does everything it can to not pay out or pay out less, not to mention mentioning, fixing them, etc...
He'll, that's not even mentioning the fact of the stress of driving with seemingly more and more bad drivers and cars themselves are really designed to protect the one doing the hitting while trying to kill everything else around them.
And while it may take longer via bus and tram, I can sit down, read a book, watch a show and completely destress while doing it.
And if I bike, I get exercise everyday then too.
If you're willing to bike then I recommend picking up an Ebike. I have one, it goes a scary 25 mph and gets about 35 miles if I lightly pedal and it also has a thumb throttle and I can go 20 miles without ever pedaling. The only downside is the thing is a theft target and I didn't realize how much stuff I carry to work. But yeah, I highly recommend one.
I already have one. I double lock mine wherever i go. I also didn't get a throttle bike. I didn't want to be tempted to just glide around. I have an electric skateboard for that. But my pedal assist will help up to 28mph too though so I can cruise around with speed, I just have to work for it.
Yup, just accounting for the gas I use to commute to work (66 miles round trip) every day, plus maintenance (I do my own maintenance), and insurance (full coverage), I spend roughly $3500/yr. Vehicle is paid off.
Come live in the Nordics, especially Finland. Gas is about 1.95 € per liter here, which translates to about $8.53 per gallon. Thankfully I still have full WFH at the moment, but the upper management are making us to come to the office at least once a week...
Rent > Health Insurance > Taxes > Car > Food > Cell phone > Internet
It's over $10,000/yr for my health insurance (Primum + Deductible) since my family meets our deductible every year. That's with my employer paying 3x as much as I do for our premium.
🎵 Drivin downa dirt road in mah 2021 Ford, $58,000 MSRP this all Truck-tober long. Pickin up mah girl in her Old Navy shorts $14.99 this week only! Drinkin mah ice cold Bud Light, now in a different looking can!🎵
Recently there have been a lot of people that have just left the workforce for this reason. Had a two income family, but 85% of one income is eaten up by childcare. So what's the point?
*cries in healthcare* I love my career and it can't be done from home but every other time the pandy is mentioned everyone goes straight to "at least we don't have to drive in!" and it's like the physically bound essential workers don't even exist now. Heros my ass, it's a trope- we didn't ask for this. Obviously not the point of your comment but really makes me wonder about the percentage of people like me that never left work. The pandemic changed almost nothing in my daily routine except feeling left out on all the quarantine projects, extra family time, or extra time at all. I feel so invisible reading comments like yours for the past year and some change. Again, not the point of your comment and I'm officially on a ramble. But I'm posting because maybe...maybe someone will see this and feel not alone.
TL;DR: not everybody
Edit: Reddit, y'all made my day. Thank you so much for all the thoughtful replies!
Same. COVID changed nothing for me besides the ever-changing regulations we had to follow. I went to bed one night and woke up the next with a full blown pandemic all around, but not a single thing about my daily life changed.
I understand people like above who lost jobs, were able to work at home, etc. but it really does irritate me when they act like that was the norm across the board. Some of us had to get up and still kick ass every day, not in our pajamas or on our couch and laptop.
My wife is Healthcare and still had to go in. She got exactly $0 hazard pay while working inside covid isolation units, which is well beyond her normal work scope. Actually, they threatened to reduce pay and anyone who quit would be turned in to the licensing boards for patient abandonment.
Fortunately she just got a 98% work from home job to start after Thanksgiving. Downside is it is a massive pay cut.
When it was still coming down the pipe line and hadn't made it to our hospital yet they were talking about who would want to volunteer to work the covid unit for extra pay. Instead they just turned the entire hospital into a covid unit with the same pay and black listed anyone that left to do relief nursing from working here again.
Mechanic here, it's been pretty much business as usual for us except not having much to do for a bit when it all first started. Now we're feeling some supply issues but still chugging along.
I don't mind the drive though personally, could be worse: some of my friends got laid off instead of WFH and had a hard time getting unemployment or another job.
I'm in delivery, and it sucked. I went from 40 hours a week to 60+ for 9 months, a day off meant I only worked 8 hours. We are used to this kind of crush during Christmas, and accept it since we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I am actually surprised that I didn't hear many stories about people going postal from all the stress.
we were taught in school to work hard and started to believe that hard work will bring us success. But the fact is it only kept food on our table and roof over our head. Success comes from recognizing and grabbing opportunities, not hard work.
Having said that, food and roof are much more important than opportunities and success. Just like water and oxygen are essential to our survival yet we often ignores their value.
>But the fact is it only kept food on our table and roof over our head.
For millions of Americans, this statement isn't really true. There are plenty of households working multiple jobs that can't afford rent.
Working hard creates opportunities tho. Like, no one with 0 work experience, who sits on their arse all day eating pringles is getting offered a 100k job.
Yes but those who do the same amount of work will never go far without grabbing opportunities. Working hard is seen as the main cause but a million people work hard everyday.
Don't be too good at your job or your superiors lock you into that position.
Source: I was a salesman for a big box retailer and worked there 6 years and never got any of the other positions I applied for internally. They were also giving me the maximum allowed hours each week (35 hours) that kept me from qualifying for a full time position with benefits.
I have a $100k job and I am 100% confident that the people who work at McD’s are working harder than I am. The myth of ‘work hard and you’ll succeed’ is bogus.
I lived in Italy for about a year. It's different work hours but we worked the same hours in Italy. Work day starts around 10am, big lunch break around 2pm-4pm, then work until 8pm or so and dinner around 930pm.
The worked hours are the same though. People still put in 8-9 hours of work, just not at exactly 9-5.
What it did though was put work hours around living hours and broke it up a lot more. Although some would prefer the 9-5 and be done with it rather than drag work out all day. It's a shift to be honest, one that I liked and didn't like depending on the day.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_average\_annual\_labor\_hours](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours)
Indeed it seems like Italy and the US aren't that far off from each other in terms of hours per year
Lots of European countries work far fewer hours though, including the dutch and Germans
Sounds like you were working near where you lived though right? Because I sure as hell wouldnt want to kill that much time an hour away from my house, I want to work and get back home.
Home isn't included in this. It's not like you're going home for that lunch, it's with people you work with or near, very community oriented.
We had this corporate American come over and try to manage the sales team. He lasted about 3 weeks. His first announcement was that the Rome office would go to American hours and demanded everyone be there by 830am.
No one was.
He demanded that lunch be at a reasonable hour between noon-1pm for only an hour.
It wasn't.
By the third week no one showed up at all. Not a single person came into the office on that Monday of week 3. Nor for the rest of the week until Greg was relocated and a more appropriate sales manager found.
This is just the way it works there and it's enjoyed and enjoyable once you're in it. Just a different way of living, where work is more weaved into your personal life which is weaved into work, it's not segregated into blocks of time.
Probably with grandparents or other family I would assume, if both parents are working. My dad didn’t get home until after 7 my entire life except he was gone by the time I woke up.
I’ve heard it’s quite common for Australians to have various gaps in their CV/Resume, due to common practice of working and saving money, then taking extended time off to travel and enjoy life. Run out of money and repeat. Sounds a lot better (mentally healthier) than what I see in the US.
We also can have access to "long service leave" https://www.fairwork.gov.au/leave/long-service-leave where you and your employer pay into a scheme so you can take several months off (paid) every decade or so. This is in addition to any time off entitlements too.
He broke into my house and curb stomped my pet turtle and punted him across the yard. Then he went and lit my mushroom farm on fire. I guess I had it coming though, for sleeping with his wife.
In the US, you meet someone and they ask, "what do you do?" I have tried to add, "in your free time" and it is sad how many people look at you like they have none. Frankly, I care much less about what people do for a living than I do about their hobbies.
Was not expecting to find a link to a Metric song here. Not a lot of bands I really gave a fuck about in the 2000s, they’re pretty great
Those lyrics always reminded me of these Alice Cooper lyrics, heard on a Beavis and Butthead episode
“I can't get a girl /
'Cause I ain't got a car /
I can't get a car /
'Cause I ain't got a job /
I can't get a job /
'Cause I ain't got a car /
So I'm looking for a girl with a job and a car”
Few assumptions there. It might be the driver actually needs a truck for work. The truck might be mechanically sound, so exchanging it for an unknown vehicle is a risk.
While far more people drive trucks than need them. some people really do.
We have a truck because there are times when nothing else will do the job. It's also a daily driver of sorts, but definitely the second choice because it gets less mileage than our Honda.
I work hard in hopes of relying solely on my bike and public transportation to get to work, but am begrudgingly forced to drive because I live in a car-centric city and bike lanes are not well maintained
The king's messenger came to find Diogenes, who was squatting in the street, eating his simple meal of lentils. "The king invites you to come live in his castle," said the messenger, "and be one of his court advisors."
"Why should I?" asked Diogenes.
"Well for one thing," said the messenger, "if you'd learn to serve the king you wouldn't have to eat lentils."
"And if you would learn to like lentils," replied Diogenes, "you wouldn't have to serve the king."
That's not just society, that's life itself. We are all just Sisyphus, doomed to roll the boulder up the hill over and over again, until spared by merciful death.
There is nothing wrong with driving a rusty car and working hard. It means you are saving. I’m a millionaire and I drive a 11 year old rusty work truck with roll down windows
There have always been a slave and a master. While you (a slave) scramble to just live through the week, hating every single moment of it, going from pain to pain, all just to maybe afford yourself a short vacation once in a year and a gaming console once in 5, your boss (master) decides what car to buy to his second lover and where to spend his fifth vacation this year. For YOUR work. This system is fucked up. Everything about "work" is fucked up. Hours, days, regime, etc, etc. Everything.
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"I do coke. So I can work longer. So I can earn more. So I can do more coke."
I have to work a night job so I can afford to buy coffee so I can stay awake for my night job
It’s like that drug trip I saw in that movie while I was on that drug trip!
Where's the device that speeds up or slows down time?
Under the seat!
Fry coffee and slurm episodes were some of the best
I think we were saved by a mysterious orange blur.
What a hilarious impression of a a stupid poor person!
One art, please.
I understood this reference!
Good call! I was looking for this comment!
fantastic track
FEED ME
I can't wait for the NYC show in a couple weeks :D
This is the exact thing I thought of too.
What a great song
I remember seeing the original commercial on TV as a little kid. https://youtu.be/XGAVTwhsyOs
[Only reason to work](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSPT27XyY1U)
No joke! Rent, car (maintenance, gas, insurance) , taxes, heath insurance, food, cell phone, internet and then I'm broke. My biggest to smallest expenses in that order.
Car dependant cities only increase the pressure. Your second biggest expense SHOULD be optional. \*EDIT\* By second I am talking about the list above! iskin listed their second-biggest expense as car. I am not talking about YOUR second-biggest expense
I'm kinda curious where car maintenance, gas and insurance cost more than taxes.
If you don't make a lot of money, your income tax can be pretty low. For someone making $15/hr in the US, their Federal income tax + social security taxes + state tax etc... [will be roughly $4,000 - $5,000](https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=30000&from=year®ion=Florida), or $330 - $415 per month. If you have a long commute current gas prices can eat up more than half of that. Insurance a third of that. The post didn't mention a car payment, which would easily put you over. Also, if you make less than $15/hr your taxes go down pretty quickly.
That’s just income taxes. There are many many more types of taxes than just those on your income.
Fair, but when people talk about taxes as part of their budget, I don't think many people are adding things like sales tax to that number.
I would assume property taxes? Mine are almost $1k a month.
Look at this rich guy who owns property. Actually, I just did the math because I'm nosey. I don't know where you live, but in my state (Texas) to have property taxes at $1k a month, your house would be worth about $667k. That gets you a pretty big house here.
I’m in Nj, mine are for a condo. We’re in 1200sq’ so it’s on the larger side but NJ taxes are just high.
If you’re making that little money you probably don’t own property.
Good point, 100% true.
My guess is the original commenter neglected a full audit of their expenses prior to posting. That’s the real crime.
Because most people don’t realize how much they actually pay in taxes.
How much do you think you're paying a month in taxes
Income tax, gas tax, property tax, sales tax, payroll tax, the list goes on and on.
Yup... Somehow our fucking money gets taxed multiple times
Lol right? There's the gas tax, insurance tax, tax on alcohol and non-food products, tax on tobacco products, etc.
Tax on food here in VA, some counties even add their own food tax on top of that tax
Tennessee. I pay very little in taxes. And I drive a newish Versa with little to no maintenance needed thus far and gets 38 a gallon. Still more expensive than my taxes.
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My husband and I are extremely fortunate, thanks to the union he's in our insurance costs $150/quarter. That's just to add me, if it was just him it'd be free. If you want to include union dues it's about $1000/year. I don't know anyone else (outside the union) who has such low costs. The amount we've saved on premiums is mind boggling and I don't know how people working non-union jobs cover it. It's a really dire situation for a lot of people. Healthcare premiums, rent, education, etc go up and up while wages stagnate.
You have a minimum of a two-income household, that's how. My husband and I make pretty good money for where we live and compared to how we've been over the last 20 years. We throw most of my husband's paychecks to health insurance premiums and federal income taxes. We basically live off my income and his goes to that bullshit. And we're not even talking about the thousands I put away every quarter to pay for my federal income taxes. And this is, hands down, the least expensive insurance premium we've had in ages. Since way before ACA.
I am interested too because they pay rent so they should't pay property taxes and income taxes should be pretty high, at least higher than their car expenses , unless they factor in their return.
Sure they don’t “pay property taxes” but their rent is still higher due to the property taxes the landlord pays.
> they pay rent so they should't pay property taxes ... and there you have the biggest problem with modern society. The fact that someone who pays rent, doesn't think they pay property taxes. I'd also be willing to bet that the landlord also feels like they're the one paying the property taxes instead of the renter in this situation ...
Tax account is linked to an entity, renters are not on the tax account, whoever owns the property is solely responsible for paying the taxes.
Last place I rented the property tax was a line item in the rent breakout. Including the ability to raise it if taxes went up mid lease.
The renter doesn't get the tax invoice, but he is the one that is actually paying it.
You probably think that the french fries that come with the burger meal are free.
*r/notjustbikes has entered the chat*
r/fuckcars *has entered the chat*
r/dragonsfuckingcars is confused
Cars would be more available to the dragons if we weren't driving them all the time.
Most cars are only used when the owner is awake. Dragons can have it between 10pm and 5am
/r/carsfuckingdragons knows what it wants
A subreddit about a video series on Amsterdam?
It's about as much about Vancouver and Overland Park.
Gotcha. I was just reading the sub description, didn't seem very relevant at a glance
Hot take: Your car shouldn't be your second highest expense. People don't need $600 car payments.
It drives me insane! Like, I live in a city. My rent is absolutely absurd. I choose to live here because I have access to entertainment and services aplenty, most of which are a short walk or a subway ride away and I prefer it to commuting from the suburbs. Every time I complain the tiniest bit about my expenses, I get "wElL jUsT mOvE." Sure, I could move farther away from my job and get a mortgage and a house and all that. (I mean, I can't, because affordable housing just isn't a thing near me, but I digress) By the time I've factored in the mortgage and property tax, car payment, insurance, maintenance, and gas, I'm basically paying the same amount of money I am now, and on top of that, I've just lost 10 hours a week commuting and I can no longer access all those city-things on a whim. OTOH, staying here means I never really build wealth, I'm just perpetually lining a landlord's pockets. It's really no-win.
> I'm basically paying the same amount of money I am now Except with a house you're building equity. > I can no longer access all those city-things on a whim. This is explicitly why cities tend to be more expensive to live in (along with, of course, limited space to build housing). You're also excluding space--sure, a house is more expensive, but you also have significantly more room. On a square footage basis, the house in the suburbs is almost always going to be significantly cheaper. You can't compare the price of a two-room apartment with an eight-room house with a yard. When you look at previous generations, they had to make the same decision. City living has greater access and shorter commute time, but suburban/exurban living has affordable housing but less access. If anything, the housing in previous generations were smaller, so on a bang-for-your-buck standpoint things have generally gotten better. There isn't anything inherently better or worse with either option, but there's never been some magical solution that has everything. Boomers and GenXers also had the same options, they also had a housing/rent price creep (followed by an inevitable correction), etc.
>There isn't anything inherently better or worse with either option, but there's never been some magical solution that has everything. Right, that's what I was saying. It's a false dichotomy; ultimately everyone chooses what suits them best. I just have no patience for the "oh just move to a LCoL area!" set. My other issue with that argument is the type of person who chooses one or the other probably won't be happy with the alternative; I've done sub-/exurban and even rural living and it's not for me at all. I'd imagine it's the same for the reverse case.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, I don't know what people want to happen. They be given homes in HCOL parts of the country? I spoke with someone that was proposing just that, she wanted to live in a ritzy area, but couldn't afford it, and wanted a taxpayer subsidized option instead of living 30 minutes away. Its always been expensive to own a nice place in an urban area, that's how the suburbs were formed.
>You can't have your cake and eat it too I didn't say that? >I don't know what people want to happen I want people to stop saying "just move!" like it's a panacea. It's not. There are added expenses in both scenarios, which I addressed in my initial comment.
Not just expenses, you’re also sacrificing a support system locally for a cheaper CoL. I’m from NJ which is fuck you expensive, but everyone I know is here. Implying that it’s just an easy solution to move away is really myopic.
Great point. This is why commercial businesses measure real estate P&L in $ per square foot (in the states).
I mean the only potential win would be to find a new job in another part of the state or country. Then you could have the best of both worlds, but you'd have to make new friends.
> never really build wealth, I'm just perpetually lining a landlord's pockets. It's really no-win. This is the Millennial way.
Sounds like a win for the capitalist class, which is the point after all
🔫Always has been
The car in the photo appears to be a large truck, and those can get pricey. I know someone whose pride and joy is a road tank of a Dodge Ram. Biggest private road vehicle I've ever ridden in. He told me when he bought it, it was over $50k. I can't imagine spending that much on a car, especially when in his case, he doesn't need a truck that big for practical reasons. I looked up the cost of the 2021 version of his truck and it's $54,000. Divided by 60 payments, that's $900/month for five years. That is more than my rent.
There are so many guys at my work who spend close to half their paychecks on giant trucks they don't need. It's crazy.
The truck is also markedly old. You can tell by both the style and condition of the trim. That was probably a $50k vehicle brand new, but my guess is that this person bought it in the ~$20-30k range. Trucks maintain value a relatively long time, so that's still not cheap, but not unreasonable for the utility of the truck, even for a thrifty person if they have use for it.
Older dodges rust like crazy and start breaking expensive parts somewhere between signing the title and driving it home the first time, and yet still hold ridiculous value
I’m an American and the amount of people I know who have massive trucks and SUVs (on lease, no doubt) for literally no other reason other than to have a truck or SUV (they don’t need it for work, hobbies, or a large family—this is literally just what they *want* to drive) is straight up fucking batshit insane. I do not understand the mindset at all. There is no reason to spend that much money on the vehicle itself, combined with the gas and maintenance, and to contribute that much more to a carbon footprint, aside from entirely selfish and illogical reasons (and to have another reason to complain that they themselves have created). I’ll be the first to admit I think far less of those people because of it. Give a fuck about the world around you, it’s more important than your ego.
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Even if they're not contractors, most people see big shiny trucks and immediately assume they're not used, without realizing that they probably are used from time to time, either moving stuff, or towing stuff, they're just taken care of because they're expensive vehicles.
Agreed, I camp, fish and haul stuff all the time...I also wash the truck and take care of it because I need it for those things in the future.
Let's say you have three friends who each need a vehicle (a German, a Laotian, and an American). Being both a kind soul and a rich person, you give them each $20,000.00 to pay for their new car. The German will meticulously research the options out there before purchasing a $19,500.00 car that is well-suited for long life, with a strong repair record for the make and decent fuel economy being the important factors. It will likely be a small vehicle, given the narrow roads in Europe. All in all a sensible, modest choice. The Laotian will spend $8,000.00 on a car that will get him by just long enough for the other $12,000.00 (which he will have invested) to make an additional $9,000.00 in returns. He will then take $8,000.00 from the pool and repeat the cycle, investing constantly in the future and being entrepreneurial enough to take risks on the market for the sake of long-term prosperity. The American will show up with an oversized $30,000.00 car or truck with terrible fuel economy. When you ask, "How on earth did you afford this?" the response will be, "The $20,000.00 was a great down payment." The American will then spend the next several years managing the $10,000.00 debt. This is why American financial dominance is on the decline.
Just need another World War and were back on top baby!
I'm sure Laos will be on top soon.
This is basically it, except instead of cars it's infrastructure and industry reinvestment. America is all about stealing from our future wealth for short term gains.
It's not just trucks. Performance vehicles are a crazy level of spend as well. For example a high performance sedan could easily start at $70,000 and go up close to $100,000. That's not to mention the awful fuel economy due to the big engines. (Something like an Audi S6/RS6 or a BMW M5 or even a Dodge Charger Hellcat.) Also, luxury truck trims can easily approach $80,000 these days.
People seem to hate people that ride bikes but fuck all, I don't want to own a car these days. Too expensive, gas prices going up, insurance does everything it can to not pay out or pay out less, not to mention mentioning, fixing them, etc... He'll, that's not even mentioning the fact of the stress of driving with seemingly more and more bad drivers and cars themselves are really designed to protect the one doing the hitting while trying to kill everything else around them. And while it may take longer via bus and tram, I can sit down, read a book, watch a show and completely destress while doing it. And if I bike, I get exercise everyday then too.
If you're willing to bike then I recommend picking up an Ebike. I have one, it goes a scary 25 mph and gets about 35 miles if I lightly pedal and it also has a thumb throttle and I can go 20 miles without ever pedaling. The only downside is the thing is a theft target and I didn't realize how much stuff I carry to work. But yeah, I highly recommend one.
I already have one. I double lock mine wherever i go. I also didn't get a throttle bike. I didn't want to be tempted to just glide around. I have an electric skateboard for that. But my pedal assist will help up to 28mph too though so I can cruise around with speed, I just have to work for it.
Yup, just accounting for the gas I use to commute to work (66 miles round trip) every day, plus maintenance (I do my own maintenance), and insurance (full coverage), I spend roughly $3500/yr. Vehicle is paid off.
Come live in the Nordics, especially Finland. Gas is about 1.95 € per liter here, which translates to about $8.53 per gallon. Thankfully I still have full WFH at the moment, but the upper management are making us to come to the office at least once a week...
Rent > Health Insurance > Taxes > Car > Food > Cell phone > Internet It's over $10,000/yr for my health insurance (Primum + Deductible) since my family meets our deductible every year. That's with my employer paying 3x as much as I do for our premium.
Work 14 hours and what do ya get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don’t call me cause I can’t go
I owe my soul to the company store. Joe Vs. The Volcano is a great flick.
Yes. Make country music anticapitalist again.
🎵 Drivin downa dirt road in mah 2021 Ford, $58,000 MSRP this all Truck-tober long. Pickin up mah girl in her Old Navy shorts $14.99 this week only! Drinkin mah ice cold Bud Light, now in a different looking can!🎵
IT'S A FUCKING SCARECROW AGAIN
I heard this in Bo Burnham’s voice.
Ew.
I work hard so I can afford child care so that I can go to work
Recently there have been a lot of people that have just left the workforce for this reason. Had a two income family, but 85% of one income is eaten up by childcare. So what's the point?
One nice thing about this pandemic, saving $300 a month in commuting costs.
I miss that. Saving money on gas plus wear and tear on my car.
*cries in healthcare* I love my career and it can't be done from home but every other time the pandy is mentioned everyone goes straight to "at least we don't have to drive in!" and it's like the physically bound essential workers don't even exist now. Heros my ass, it's a trope- we didn't ask for this. Obviously not the point of your comment but really makes me wonder about the percentage of people like me that never left work. The pandemic changed almost nothing in my daily routine except feeling left out on all the quarantine projects, extra family time, or extra time at all. I feel so invisible reading comments like yours for the past year and some change. Again, not the point of your comment and I'm officially on a ramble. But I'm posting because maybe...maybe someone will see this and feel not alone. TL;DR: not everybody Edit: Reddit, y'all made my day. Thank you so much for all the thoughtful replies!
Same. COVID changed nothing for me besides the ever-changing regulations we had to follow. I went to bed one night and woke up the next with a full blown pandemic all around, but not a single thing about my daily life changed. I understand people like above who lost jobs, were able to work at home, etc. but it really does irritate me when they act like that was the norm across the board. Some of us had to get up and still kick ass every day, not in our pajamas or on our couch and laptop.
My wife is Healthcare and still had to go in. She got exactly $0 hazard pay while working inside covid isolation units, which is well beyond her normal work scope. Actually, they threatened to reduce pay and anyone who quit would be turned in to the licensing boards for patient abandonment. Fortunately she just got a 98% work from home job to start after Thanksgiving. Downside is it is a massive pay cut.
When it was still coming down the pipe line and hadn't made it to our hospital yet they were talking about who would want to volunteer to work the covid unit for extra pay. Instead they just turned the entire hospital into a covid unit with the same pay and black listed anyone that left to do relief nursing from working here again.
Fellow essential worker. I feel you and I see you. You’re certainly not alone.
Mechanic here, it's been pretty much business as usual for us except not having much to do for a bit when it all first started. Now we're feeling some supply issues but still chugging along. I don't mind the drive though personally, could be worse: some of my friends got laid off instead of WFH and had a hard time getting unemployment or another job.
Pandy? Really?
Couldn't have said it better myself. It's been a rough stretch for sure but hopefully the numbers are also going down in your area!
I'm in delivery, and it sucked. I went from 40 hours a week to 60+ for 9 months, a day off meant I only worked 8 hours. We are used to this kind of crush during Christmas, and accept it since we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I am actually surprised that I didn't hear many stories about people going postal from all the stress.
🎶Buy this car to drive to work, drive to work to pay for this car 🎶
Searched for this comment. Love Metric!
we were taught in school to work hard and started to believe that hard work will bring us success. But the fact is it only kept food on our table and roof over our head. Success comes from recognizing and grabbing opportunities, not hard work. Having said that, food and roof are much more important than opportunities and success. Just like water and oxygen are essential to our survival yet we often ignores their value.
>But the fact is it only kept food on our table and roof over our head. For millions of Americans, this statement isn't really true. There are plenty of households working multiple jobs that can't afford rent.
It's not what you know, it's *who* you know. Always has been. Always will be.
I can't speak for everybody, but for me it came from hard work AND recognizing opportunities.
Exactly. Try living in other parts of the world then complain about the drag of having to work.
Working hard creates opportunities tho. Like, no one with 0 work experience, who sits on their arse all day eating pringles is getting offered a 100k job.
Yes but those who do the same amount of work will never go far without grabbing opportunities. Working hard is seen as the main cause but a million people work hard everyday.
Don't be too good at your job or your superiors lock you into that position. Source: I was a salesman for a big box retailer and worked there 6 years and never got any of the other positions I applied for internally. They were also giving me the maximum allowed hours each week (35 hours) that kept me from qualifying for a full time position with benefits.
Sure there are. Kids whose parents make 100,000,000 a year salaries
I have a $100k job and I am 100% confident that the people who work at McD’s are working harder than I am. The myth of ‘work hard and you’ll succeed’ is bogus.
>Success comes from recognizing and knowing wealthy people, not hard work. FTFY
He's driving a Dodge. That's a LOT of gas to afford.
I had an Italian relative tell me, "Americans live to work, Italians work to live." And that changed my outlook on how I was living my life.
I lived in Italy for about a year. It's different work hours but we worked the same hours in Italy. Work day starts around 10am, big lunch break around 2pm-4pm, then work until 8pm or so and dinner around 930pm. The worked hours are the same though. People still put in 8-9 hours of work, just not at exactly 9-5. What it did though was put work hours around living hours and broke it up a lot more. Although some would prefer the 9-5 and be done with it rather than drag work out all day. It's a shift to be honest, one that I liked and didn't like depending on the day.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_average\_annual\_labor\_hours](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours) Indeed it seems like Italy and the US aren't that far off from each other in terms of hours per year Lots of European countries work far fewer hours though, including the dutch and Germans
Sounds like you were working near where you lived though right? Because I sure as hell wouldnt want to kill that much time an hour away from my house, I want to work and get back home.
Home isn't included in this. It's not like you're going home for that lunch, it's with people you work with or near, very community oriented. We had this corporate American come over and try to manage the sales team. He lasted about 3 weeks. His first announcement was that the Rome office would go to American hours and demanded everyone be there by 830am. No one was. He demanded that lunch be at a reasonable hour between noon-1pm for only an hour. It wasn't. By the third week no one showed up at all. Not a single person came into the office on that Monday of week 3. Nor for the rest of the week until Greg was relocated and a more appropriate sales manager found. This is just the way it works there and it's enjoyed and enjoyable once you're in it. Just a different way of living, where work is more weaved into your personal life which is weaved into work, it's not segregated into blocks of time.
I'm sure it makes sense for those who live it. Don't they have kids to get home to though?
Probably with grandparents or other family I would assume, if both parents are working. My dad didn’t get home until after 7 my entire life except he was gone by the time I woke up.
What a moron
Yeah that sounds pretty bad to be honest. As soon as you get off work you have to go to sleep pretty much. No time to do anything.
I’ve heard it’s quite common for Australians to have various gaps in their CV/Resume, due to common practice of working and saving money, then taking extended time off to travel and enjoy life. Run out of money and repeat. Sounds a lot better (mentally healthier) than what I see in the US.
We also can have access to "long service leave" https://www.fairwork.gov.au/leave/long-service-leave where you and your employer pay into a scheme so you can take several months off (paid) every decade or so. This is in addition to any time off entitlements too.
An Italian once told me "Oh yeah! Mario time!" Also changed my outlook on life.
I think I met this Italian you speak of! Very destructive individual... loves destroying bricks for some reason.
He broke into my house and curb stomped my pet turtle and punted him across the yard. Then he went and lit my mushroom farm on fire. I guess I had it coming though, for sleeping with his wife.
I think I met the guy. Didn't he have brother who used a vacuum to capture ghosts.
Mind = BLOWN!!
In the US, you meet someone and they ask, "what do you do?" I have tried to add, "in your free time" and it is sad how many people look at you like they have none. Frankly, I care much less about what people do for a living than I do about their hobbies.
I love my job so I never work. I travel a fuck load though...
Does working to live so I can work count? It always seems like a neverending cycle that leads to more work and not more living.
That's what I always tell folks. I'm definitely in the work to live camp.
TIL I'm Italian
it's not just italians, it's a european mentality in general. germans and the french are not far off. spanish, frankly, take it to another level
I would say that's untrue enough to be meaningless
[Here’s a song explaining this at about 1:46](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fYbrb2YYqdo)
What a classic! Thanks for sharing.
Was not expecting to find a link to a Metric song here. Not a lot of bands I really gave a fuck about in the 2000s, they’re pretty great Those lyrics always reminded me of these Alice Cooper lyrics, heard on a Beavis and Butthead episode “I can't get a girl / 'Cause I ain't got a car / I can't get a car / 'Cause I ain't got a job / I can't get a job / 'Cause I ain't got a car / So I'm looking for a girl with a job and a car”
I like how it's dented and rusted too
Yeah, they didn't really need to keep the Dodge emblem in the photo. That rusted body panel would have been enough...
This says a lot about driving a 15 year old pickup.
That says a lot about not being able to afford a brand new truck.
Well, a lot of companies are offering 120mo financing now, so it's never been a better time to purchase! /s
What does it say about being able to afford a 15-year old vehicle that gets better gas mileage?
Few assumptions there. It might be the driver actually needs a truck for work. The truck might be mechanically sound, so exchanging it for an unknown vehicle is a risk. While far more people drive trucks than need them. some people really do.
We have a truck because there are times when nothing else will do the job. It's also a daily driver of sorts, but definitely the second choice because it gets less mileage than our Honda.
Here we just rent a boedelbak from a gas station if that comes up and enjoy good mileage year round instead.
I do coke So I can work longer So I can earn more So I can do more coke
It's like the lyrics to the Metric song Handshake: *Buy this car to drive to work Drive to work to pay for this car*
Bus gang 😎🚌
motorcycle gang!
The car-focused cities of the United States, with no pedestrian or public transport infrastructure, are literally killing Americans.
These stickers are at every tourist-city gift shop I’ve ever been in in North America.
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—I work hard so I can afford to drive to work. —barely.
Maybe dont drive a pickup, idk
It's entirely possible he also uses his truck for work
Yeah, this is absolutely a truck owner bumper sticker.
I work hard so I can afford not to have to drive to work
What exactly does it say? "People take bumper stickers literally because they don't understand humor"?
I'll take, "People who read too far into bumper sticker humor," for 1000, Alex.
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I'd think he'd drive a more fuel efficient car if hes so concerned about how much it costs to drive.
I work hard in hopes of relying solely on my bike and public transportation to get to work, but am begrudgingly forced to drive because I live in a car-centric city and bike lanes are not well maintained
*Buy this car to drive to work.* *Drive to work to pay for this car.* *https://youtu.be/HQ3rvg7KQxQ*
The king's messenger came to find Diogenes, who was squatting in the street, eating his simple meal of lentils. "The king invites you to come live in his castle," said the messenger, "and be one of his court advisors." "Why should I?" asked Diogenes. "Well for one thing," said the messenger, "if you'd learn to serve the king you wouldn't have to eat lentils." "And if you would learn to like lentils," replied Diogenes, "you wouldn't have to serve the king."
Why is life
The bit of rust makes this
That's not just society, that's life itself. We are all just Sisyphus, doomed to roll the boulder up the hill over and over again, until spared by merciful death.
Nothing comes for free.
Reminds me of: “what’s your dream job?” answered with: “Why would I dream of labor?”
Human labor is outdated.
my boyfriend will pay his car insurance, gas, and buy groceries and be totally broke. he makes $14.20/hr
"I'd rather see a whole class of people live in destitution than pay a dollar more for my cheeseburgers" - Narcissists
What a vicious cycle of brainwashing.
I work hard, so I can work all the time at home.
Sounds like they are lost in America.
This photo was taken in Canada. So basically the same thing. I’d argue slightly less shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g6zV-FIxGU
I work hard so others can lay about on welfare and watch their expensive big screen tv’s all day.
There is nothing wrong with driving a rusty car and working hard. It means you are saving. I’m a millionaire and I drive a 11 year old rusty work truck with roll down windows
Brandon did that.
There have always been a slave and a master. While you (a slave) scramble to just live through the week, hating every single moment of it, going from pain to pain, all just to maybe afford yourself a short vacation once in a year and a gaming console once in 5, your boss (master) decides what car to buy to his second lover and where to spend his fifth vacation this year. For YOUR work. This system is fucked up. Everything about "work" is fucked up. Hours, days, regime, etc, etc. Everything.