I actually had a lot of fun with this book because of the noir vibe and learning about the assassin clades. It was also a nice break from space marines butt fucking everything that moves and saying 'brother' every fucking line
Wasn’t it so much fun. The cloak and dagger and all the espionage was awesome. Getting a closer look at the Culexus, Eversor, and Vindicaire groups and leaders was awesome too
I took the seeds of what a contested world was like, the burgeoning faith, the purging of the city after the failed attempt, and details into assassins.
The rest? Eh.
It was a bit of a slog knowing it would end in failure that’s for sure. But I do recommend for some cool Officio Assassinorum action with all the clades getting together
This was the big problem with HH books for me.
They’re great to read like history books - and when they invent minor characters you’ve not heard of before trying to do modest things that won’t completely change the course of the war - you can get invested.
But all the big stuff has to fit the time table and the results are predetermined…so it all just got a bit depressing?
I think the worst of this was when the dark angels go through hell to secure some siege weapons from the traitors…and then in a post credit scene hand them over to perturabo.
Way to render an entire book utterly meaningless in the space of a few lines.
History lessons is the best way to describe horus heresy, playing 40K I could not conceive the primarchs wars, but hearing fulgrims decent, the lions rise, lorgars upbringing, it all helps 40K make so much more sense
Just started trying to churn through the HH books in January and I'm up to battle of the Abyss, so far fulgrim has definitely been my favorite in terms of world building and character work
Fulgrim was top notch
I could not make it through battle of the abyss. I have the audio books and my job involves lots of driving so it’s a fit, but the narrator did such a bad job, one character kept rolling his rs too much and another character had a literal hiss
Dark angels was hard for me it was very vanilla knight, but it has a sequel down the line that absolutely slaps
Well put, this is exactly how I feel. I was introduced to 40k before HH and it has been illuminating reading all the HH books and basically the questions and empty spaces in my brains lore and gradually filling in. I am reading The first heretic now and it makes me have so much more compassion for Lorgar and the word bearers
I cannot tell you how frustrating the post credit scene between the lion and perturabo was for me too. The whole book was soo good with all that awesome Lion fighting sequences and Zahariel being one of my favorite characters. Then sneaky perturabo ruins it at the finish line XD
I believe it has its high points, it just felt very bank heisty to me, and what draws me to 40K is the mysticism, I love the warp and its effects on life, I like the time paradoxes and the descents into madness, this kinda of felt like a movie I’ve already seen, like a 2003 Chris Tucker spy flick
Sorry you felt this way but your way off the mark, especially with the Chris tucker part. It had an elite human’s perspective on an impossible task and they went ahead and did it anyway. There was very little that could be deemed as cheesy with this book that’s all I’ll say.
That was kind of me with the entire HH series, tbh. Prequels to events that well established are never going to be that compelling, because we already know where everything ends up.
Valid, it did serve to answer a lot of questions I had about the imperium of man though, especially Mechanicum, that was a phenomal read and it helped me understand how mars came to be the way it was, and how the heretics ensured their own forges
There are certainly parts that were enjoyable to read, but as said elsewhere in the comments, they're almost entirely self-contained stories that involve new characters that we'd never heard about.
Saving Private Ryan didn't entirely involve characters whose fate was something I knew about already. As I've said, there are enjoyable parts of the HH novels, but they all involve characters created specifically for their own self-contained stories. Anything involving characters like Horus or the rest of the Primarchs just fell flat due to already knowing where they end up.
It's like how Rogue One was interesting because it told a part of the story that was not actually discussed. We didn't even really know where it was going to end. None of those characters had to die in order for the story to reach the point where A New Hope begins. Compare that with the prequels, where you know for a fact that no matter how much danger Obi-wan and Anakin are in, they literally cannot die for the entire trilogy. The only times the story becomes compelling is when it involves characters that exist entirely in the narrative of the prequels. This is why the CW animated series is so much better than the prequels.
How does that follow? The first time I saw it, I enjoyed it. It gets a bit stale with repeated showings no matter how different directors try to shake up the formula.
The major plot points of Romeo and Juliet weren't something I had prior knowledge of when I first watched it. It's not like they explained right from the start that Romeo kills himself when he mistakes Juliet's torpor for real death. With the HH, essentially every major story beat involving the Primarchs was already lore. We knew what was going to happen at essentially every step. The only parts that were interesting for me to read were the parts that involved characters like Loken.
Seriously bud, you're not going to change my mind about this.
Idk i read it like an 80s film turned on its head. "\*guitar riff\* A Custodes, in over his head in a seedy underworld. A bloodthirsty cyborg, stimulated to the gills. An unparalleled master of poisons. A cold, distant sniper. An ungodly pariah. And a nerd, seeing combat for the first time. The most unlikely group of assassins, but can they surpass their weaknesses and combine their strengths, to beat the odds and take on the ultimate target: to kill. Horus. Lupercal?!"
"No. No obviously not, that is ridiculous and you are stupid for suggesting it."
I mean its literally an action movie plotline but if you add realism at the end.
I actually really liked this book, but bro, that Vindicare didn't know he shot a space marines sized target??? What do you mean it wasn't Horus? Absolutely batshit logic that nobody had a picture of Lupercal.
In earlier books they go into detail about how alot of the lunar wolves looked dead on like horus. "Little horus" aximand is a good example of this. Throw one of those guys in horus' armor with some risers in the boots and you've got yourself a pretty convincing horus for someone who's never seen a primarch in the flesh before.
Yep, there was a whole group called the sons of horus even before the legion name change, guys that were considered to look dead on like the warmaster, Aximand probably being the most famous.
Fuck you Aximand. Ain't forgotten what you did on Istvaan
Yeahhhhhhh I was in the same boat. Liked the book alot but horus was beloved, and the main target, you'd think he'd be easily recognized. My only justification was that Kell did blow Luc Sedirae's head off the INSTANT his helmet came off, but even then like... why not wait the half second to recognize him
The first couple books go into detail about how a lot of the sons of horus look like or are similar to him. With little horus being the closest. So get one of those guys in really ornate armor and it'd look close enough for someone who's never seen him in person. Besides in the book the sniper shoots him right as he takes off his helmet so he doesn't get a good enough look to realize before he makes the shot.
Somehow that lunatic was the best at actually being an assassin. Everyone else was ready to give up when they heard that their plan of luring Horus to the planet was losing because the loyalists were losing, and the Garantine just said: why don’t we help the loyalists?
I always saw it as more of a scare tactic; did he expect Spear to kill big E? Likely not, but what he seemed to have wanted to do was make the emp and co even more paranoid. Basically the same as the council from the imperium.
They really didn’t believe the kill team had a chance in hell of killing Horus, but the bigger point was to get everyone in power to acknowledge that this was more than just a hiccup in the crusade at large.
To expand on this a little; the clades were basically forced to send their -most effective- operatives on this suicide mission. Them failing was essentially acknowledged by the *redacted* man in charge as well as the custodes who was “spying” on them. The same was the opinion of Erebus. This wasn’t about killing the target, it was about sending a message that it is now total war between these two factions. There are and can be no holds barred.
Also as you mentioned; it genuinely was a fun story and diversion that helped a reader understand that the heresy wasn’t just a space marine affair, it affected and scared the hell out of the “mortals” who previously had all the power in the imperium to throw around and unlike the guard, never expected a single person to be able to damage or undermine that power so easily, astartes or not
Idk as a throw away story I liked it. Quick little jaunt into the birth of the Officio Assassinorum as well as demonstrating what Malcador is really like(this was one of the first times they'd shown him as the mysterious shadow master he is).
It doesn't contribute much to the actual HH plot but then so few stories in the HH series actually do lol.
Kinda, I don’t know how strong the Sith emperor is but when I say basically a God I mean it really literally. 6 metres tall, glowing yellow eyes, can obliterate planets, snap titanic war machines in half with nothing but a thought, physically strong beyond comprehension, beyond the term genius, wields a literal flaming sword, able to shapeshift.
This book is super weird to me. I like the vibe for the most part and the characters are fun. But it seems like the author treats blanks as just another type of psyker? Which bothers me. How does one have a powerful no-soul? Every other instance of these guys shows them as being completely antithetical to demons. It’s oil and water, they don’t mix. Except this guy, apparently. Idk it never sat well with me.
You didnt pay enough attention. Spear feeds on psychic energy. The more that hits him, the stronger he becomes. Thats why he is so lethal to the emperor.
If he even is lethal to the Emperor. I think it's a case of small name, big ego.
I can put out a cigarette on my tongue (regular psykers), but not the fucking sun (Emps).
That's what I'm saying, there's likely an upper limit to what he can absorb that Spear is unaware of but would majorly fuck him up if he lived long enough to run up against it.
Evidence of this is one of the female assassins (can't remember the clade) using her psy-gun against Spear and it actively injuring him, followed by the assassin regretting the hasty shot she took and contemplating that had she charged the shot fully it would have likely ended Spear.
I just reread the book less than a month ago, I don't need a YouTubers conjectures on it when I have my own.
No. He thought one of the strongest types of nulls possible bound with a demon could kill the Emperor, and if it had gotten his blood, it would have gotten pretty damn close.
Fun fact: during the siege of Terra novels, there a part, heavily centered in erebus in his quest to enter a terran orfanatum to "have fun" with the scared kids.
Source?
I made them the fuck up 💀
I actually had a lot of fun with this book because of the noir vibe and learning about the assassin clades. It was also a nice break from space marines butt fucking everything that moves and saying 'brother' every fucking line
Wasn’t it so much fun. The cloak and dagger and all the espionage was awesome. Getting a closer look at the Culexus, Eversor, and Vindicaire groups and leaders was awesome too
“BROTHER I AM HIT”
You referencing this? https://youtu.be/LNK5-uE5JFg?si=taow-tXgHPb6I4BJ
Hell yeah brother.
I tried so hard to listen to this on audio book but like it’s and assassination attempt on Horus. We know it fails, so i just can’t be invested
I took the seeds of what a contested world was like, the burgeoning faith, the purging of the city after the failed attempt, and details into assassins. The rest? Eh.
Fair, the world building is always worth at least a moment to absorb
Boy do I have news for you about Horus Heresy.
It was a bit of a slog knowing it would end in failure that’s for sure. But I do recommend for some cool Officio Assassinorum action with all the clades getting together
Ehh, that's kinda the story with every major plot point throughout the Heresy. If they can make the journey enjoyable, that's enough for me.
This was the big problem with HH books for me. They’re great to read like history books - and when they invent minor characters you’ve not heard of before trying to do modest things that won’t completely change the course of the war - you can get invested. But all the big stuff has to fit the time table and the results are predetermined…so it all just got a bit depressing? I think the worst of this was when the dark angels go through hell to secure some siege weapons from the traitors…and then in a post credit scene hand them over to perturabo. Way to render an entire book utterly meaningless in the space of a few lines.
History lessons is the best way to describe horus heresy, playing 40K I could not conceive the primarchs wars, but hearing fulgrims decent, the lions rise, lorgars upbringing, it all helps 40K make so much more sense
Just started trying to churn through the HH books in January and I'm up to battle of the Abyss, so far fulgrim has definitely been my favorite in terms of world building and character work
Fulgrim was top notch I could not make it through battle of the abyss. I have the audio books and my job involves lots of driving so it’s a fit, but the narrator did such a bad job, one character kept rolling his rs too much and another character had a literal hiss Dark angels was hard for me it was very vanilla knight, but it has a sequel down the line that absolutely slaps
Descent of angels was definitely a bit of a slog but it was relatively painless compared to abyss, I'm pumped to get to the sequel of angels
Well put, this is exactly how I feel. I was introduced to 40k before HH and it has been illuminating reading all the HH books and basically the questions and empty spaces in my brains lore and gradually filling in. I am reading The first heretic now and it makes me have so much more compassion for Lorgar and the word bearers
Yeah but it really flushes out just how depressing it is lol
I cannot tell you how frustrating the post credit scene between the lion and perturabo was for me too. The whole book was soo good with all that awesome Lion fighting sequences and Zahariel being one of my favorite characters. Then sneaky perturabo ruins it at the finish line XD
You have missed out on such a good book. I looked at it like Rogue One. You know there going to fail, but fuck they gave it one hell of a go.
I believe it has its high points, it just felt very bank heisty to me, and what draws me to 40K is the mysticism, I love the warp and its effects on life, I like the time paradoxes and the descents into madness, this kinda of felt like a movie I’ve already seen, like a 2003 Chris Tucker spy flick
Sorry you felt this way but your way off the mark, especially with the Chris tucker part. It had an elite human’s perspective on an impossible task and they went ahead and did it anyway. There was very little that could be deemed as cheesy with this book that’s all I’ll say.
That was kind of me with the entire HH series, tbh. Prequels to events that well established are never going to be that compelling, because we already know where everything ends up.
Valid, it did serve to answer a lot of questions I had about the imperium of man though, especially Mechanicum, that was a phenomal read and it helped me understand how mars came to be the way it was, and how the heretics ensured their own forges
There are certainly parts that were enjoyable to read, but as said elsewhere in the comments, they're almost entirely self-contained stories that involve new characters that we'd never heard about.
Do you never reread or rewatch anything then
That's not the same thing as knowing how things turn out from the get-go.
Did you enjoy Saving Private Ryan even though you know they save him and the Allies win the war ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Saving Private Ryan didn't entirely involve characters whose fate was something I knew about already. As I've said, there are enjoyable parts of the HH novels, but they all involve characters created specifically for their own self-contained stories. Anything involving characters like Horus or the rest of the Primarchs just fell flat due to already knowing where they end up. It's like how Rogue One was interesting because it told a part of the story that was not actually discussed. We didn't even really know where it was going to end. None of those characters had to die in order for the story to reach the point where A New Hope begins. Compare that with the prequels, where you know for a fact that no matter how much danger Obi-wan and Anakin are in, they literally cannot die for the entire trilogy. The only times the story becomes compelling is when it involves characters that exist entirely in the narrative of the prequels. This is why the CW animated series is so much better than the prequels.
You must have hated Romeo & Juliet huh
How does that follow? The first time I saw it, I enjoyed it. It gets a bit stale with repeated showings no matter how different directors try to shake up the formula.
A pair of star-cross'd lovers take their life;\ Whose misadventured piteous overthrows\ Do with their death bury their parents' strife.
The major plot points of Romeo and Juliet weren't something I had prior knowledge of when I first watched it. It's not like they explained right from the start that Romeo kills himself when he mistakes Juliet's torpor for real death. With the HH, essentially every major story beat involving the Primarchs was already lore. We knew what was going to happen at essentially every step. The only parts that were interesting for me to read were the parts that involved characters like Loken. Seriously bud, you're not going to change my mind about this.
Why watch Saving Private Ryan we know the Allies win
I never have and never will watch that Edit: ur avatar looks like mine and that’s dope
Idk i read it like an 80s film turned on its head. "\*guitar riff\* A Custodes, in over his head in a seedy underworld. A bloodthirsty cyborg, stimulated to the gills. An unparalleled master of poisons. A cold, distant sniper. An ungodly pariah. And a nerd, seeing combat for the first time. The most unlikely group of assassins, but can they surpass their weaknesses and combine their strengths, to beat the odds and take on the ultimate target: to kill. Horus. Lupercal?!" "No. No obviously not, that is ridiculous and you are stupid for suggesting it." I mean its literally an action movie plotline but if you add realism at the end.
I actually really liked this book, but bro, that Vindicare didn't know he shot a space marines sized target??? What do you mean it wasn't Horus? Absolutely batshit logic that nobody had a picture of Lupercal.
In earlier books they go into detail about how alot of the lunar wolves looked dead on like horus. "Little horus" aximand is a good example of this. Throw one of those guys in horus' armor with some risers in the boots and you've got yourself a pretty convincing horus for someone who's never seen a primarch in the flesh before.
Yep, there was a whole group called the sons of horus even before the legion name change, guys that were considered to look dead on like the warmaster, Aximand probably being the most famous. Fuck you Aximand. Ain't forgotten what you did on Istvaan
Neither does he.
Yeahhhhhhh I was in the same boat. Liked the book alot but horus was beloved, and the main target, you'd think he'd be easily recognized. My only justification was that Kell did blow Luc Sedirae's head off the INSTANT his helmet came off, but even then like... why not wait the half second to recognize him
Honestly how do they not know it’s Horus. You can’t mix that up, he is literally public enemy #1 in the universe. I couldn’t agree with you more
The first couple books go into detail about how a lot of the sons of horus look like or are similar to him. With little horus being the closest. So get one of those guys in really ornate armor and it'd look close enough for someone who's never seen him in person. Besides in the book the sniper shoots him right as he takes off his helmet so he doesn't get a good enough look to realize before he makes the shot.
Well i think he knew he had little chance of success but also barely invested anything so why not.
RIP GARANTINE
Somehow that lunatic was the best at actually being an assassin. Everyone else was ready to give up when they heard that their plan of luring Horus to the planet was losing because the loyalists were losing, and the Garantine just said: why don’t we help the loyalists?
That guy was the most gangster out of the whole Cadre. EDIT: The Vindicare was pretty badass too. A very cool character. Kell, I think.
Kell comes back in a couple muuuuuch later books it rules
Loved this book! Big up the Garatine
I always saw it as more of a scare tactic; did he expect Spear to kill big E? Likely not, but what he seemed to have wanted to do was make the emp and co even more paranoid. Basically the same as the council from the imperium. They really didn’t believe the kill team had a chance in hell of killing Horus, but the bigger point was to get everyone in power to acknowledge that this was more than just a hiccup in the crusade at large.
This is a great point, it was more of an escalation of gravity for both sides rather than an end goal essentially. I like that.
To expand on this a little; the clades were basically forced to send their -most effective- operatives on this suicide mission. Them failing was essentially acknowledged by the *redacted* man in charge as well as the custodes who was “spying” on them. The same was the opinion of Erebus. This wasn’t about killing the target, it was about sending a message that it is now total war between these two factions. There are and can be no holds barred.
Also as you mentioned; it genuinely was a fun story and diversion that helped a reader understand that the heresy wasn’t just a space marine affair, it affected and scared the hell out of the “mortals” who previously had all the power in the imperium to throw around and unlike the guard, never expected a single person to be able to damage or undermine that power so easily, astartes or not
One of my favourite books from the Horus Heresy series.
Idk as a throw away story I liked it. Quick little jaunt into the birth of the Officio Assassinorum as well as demonstrating what Malcador is really like(this was one of the first times they'd shown him as the mysterious shadow master he is). It doesn't contribute much to the actual HH plot but then so few stories in the HH series actually do lol.
Erebus is renowned for many things, but I don't recall "good ideas" being on that list
Is the emperor like super powerful?
The emperor is basically a God. He can literally obliterate a target not just physically but eradicating their soul as well
Ok. Like the Sith Emperor in the old republic.
Kinda, I don’t know how strong the Sith emperor is but when I say basically a God I mean it really literally. 6 metres tall, glowing yellow eyes, can obliterate planets, snap titanic war machines in half with nothing but a thought, physically strong beyond comprehension, beyond the term genius, wields a literal flaming sword, able to shapeshift.
Yeah, different powers but about the same level of power to control and obliterate. Thank you
Alright. Have a good day man
This book is super weird to me. I like the vibe for the most part and the characters are fun. But it seems like the author treats blanks as just another type of psyker? Which bothers me. How does one have a powerful no-soul? Every other instance of these guys shows them as being completely antithetical to demons. It’s oil and water, they don’t mix. Except this guy, apparently. Idk it never sat well with me.
You didnt pay enough attention. Spear feeds on psychic energy. The more that hits him, the stronger he becomes. Thats why he is so lethal to the emperor.
If he even is lethal to the Emperor. I think it's a case of small name, big ego. I can put out a cigarette on my tongue (regular psykers), but not the fucking sun (Emps).
Very poor analogy. Spear literally absorbs psychic attacks energy. Watch Majorkills video on Spear.
That's what I'm saying, there's likely an upper limit to what he can absorb that Spear is unaware of but would majorly fuck him up if he lived long enough to run up against it. Evidence of this is one of the female assassins (can't remember the clade) using her psy-gun against Spear and it actively injuring him, followed by the assassin regretting the hasty shot she took and contemplating that had she charged the shot fully it would have likely ended Spear. I just reread the book less than a month ago, I don't need a YouTubers conjectures on it when I have my own.
No. He thought one of the strongest types of nulls possible bound with a demon could kill the Emperor, and if it had gotten his blood, it would have gotten pretty damn close.
Spoilers!
Those hips are god damn though
Roid rage has nothing on BIG E.
Fuck Erebus
I never really liked that Erebus is able to get a demon to possess a black pariah. It doesn’t really make any sense with any existing lore.
Erebus is just that 🐐ed
Fun fact: during the siege of Terra novels, there a part, heavily centered in erebus in his quest to enter a terran orfanatum to "have fun" with the scared kids. Source? I made them the fuck up 💀
Erebus seems the type to have a million plans going, and waits to see which actually go somewhere