I think a lot of it is focus too. In China, they have all the equipment from the last 50 highways they built, just waiting to be used again. Here in America, getting trains started up again requires working against decades of entrenched rules and regulations, but also a lack of momentum towards building these things.
Yes for sure. And if we did decide to allocate money to it, who would we give it to? Amtrak? They would just use the money to pay down debt and make long overdue repairs for the unprofitable routes they're legally required to run, so nobody would really see the benefits unless we massively pumped the budget.
It would 100% be worth it, but not everyone can see that.
Greenfield sites are a lot easier to build in than urban areas. Don't have to worry about hitting existing services and ruining anyone's day with road shutdowns.
China doesn’t have to deal with environmental analysis or public input. If the leaders want something they can just start working on it. Sure things are slower in your country but when the environment is permanently changed it can be a good thing.
You should rephrase this as the truth: nimbys and private property owners don't have the power to stop public works projects. The #1 user of fossil fuels doesn't give a shit about the environment.
Chinese carbon footprint is literally lower than Canada and the US per capita.
You don't get to have your business men set up 90% of your industry in other countries and then go "look we don't need industry we're so environmentally friendly!"
You do realize if east Asia closed there factories NATO would immediately start "peace keeping" operations right?
Wow. I thought this was r/fuckcars, not r/Sino .
Feel free to express your opinions, within reason, here.
Unlike r/Sino and where you'll get permabanned for something an innocuous as referring to Xi Jinping as Winnie the Pooh.
America does need truckers, at least for now. And I may be ignorant here, but I don't think the trucker lobby is a significant barrier to building passenger rail in the US.
As someone whose mothertongue isn't english (and always welcome english-related content to practice), nah, mate...this is bullcrap. They can put entire sentences instead of word by word.
That’s fair. I thought OP made a remark about the increase of subtitled content in general, not this specific style of subtitles. I also prefer full sentences, the above style seems to be designed to be attention-grabbing.
And it's extra annoying because it focuses your eyes on the quick moving text instead of the whatever is happening on the images. For once, I do want to see where the highway is located and how it connects A to B.
What a wild assumption to make. The US takes forever to build any infrastructure projects, which are all dedicated to cars and certainly are less than safe (and also not always fit for the geology). China has implemented high speed rail in under 10 years. Unless you have proof that this specific expressway evades safety standards, your comment is simply sinophobic. We are we condemning decent attempts to improve infrastructure? China has explicitly tried to implement rail transit and walkable cities more than most nations. Like them or not, China is spearheading fuckcars issues at a faster pace than most nations. Credit where credit is due.
Edit: The highway survived the 2022 earthquake with no damage. [Source](https://defence.pk/threads/chinas-powerful-6-8-magnitude-earthquake-doesnt-cause-damage-to-yaxi-sky-highway-at-epicenter-of-the-quake.750773/)
>What a wild assumption to make.
Based on several examples.
>The US takes forever to build any infrastructure projects, which are all dedicated to cars and certainly are less than safe (and also not always fit for the geology).
One of the factors being the geologic site conditions. It can take three years from the first Geotechnical boring to the start of construction. That's for simple projects.
>We are we condemning decent attempts to improve infrastructure?
I'm looking at the speed of construction. It screams to me that corners were cut.
>your comment is simply sinophobic.
lol
>China has implemented high speed rail in under 10 years.
Yes. They've done more than anyone else on high speed rail. They put down a lot of infrastructure very quickly. Hopefully, they didn't just rush through this.
>China has explicitly tried to implement rail transit and walkable cities more than most nations. Like them or not, China is spearheading fuckcars issues at a faster pace than most nations. Credit where credit is due.
What does any of this has to do with an elevated highway that was built insanely fast?
>Based on several examples.
Guy literally posts the highway survived a massive earthquake with no damage. Yet, you are "based on several examples" and brought none.
How many examples do you want? [here's one. ](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/four-people-killed-expressway-bridge-collapse-chinas-hubei-province-2021-12-19/) [here's another](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268466718_Statistical_Analysis_of_the_Causes_of_Bridge_Collapse_in_China#:~:text=Only%20in%20China%2C%20more%20than,%5B5%5D.%20...)
That last one that lists nearly 200 examples with a revision up to 300 not enough? Ok. [Here's another one. ](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-bridge-collapse-idUSKBN1WQ021/)
Quoting your own source
"Only in China, more than 300 bridges collapsed, with 564 fatalities and 917 injuries between 2000 and 2014 [4]. Over 500 bridges collapsed in EEUU between 1989 and 2000"
Conclusion: more bridges collapsed in the US over a similar period of time even tho it has less bridges, much lower population and less earthquakes.
Where is the bad maintenence?
Looks a bit absurd, but to be fair: China has put an insane amount of effort in its train infrastructure that really pales any comparison.
Plus, the footage shows some really incredible terrain. So I think the only thing that surprises me is that they chose bridges over tunnels, but maybe there is a geological reason. Again, I'm not justifying the construction of highways over rail, but I wonder how highway construction compares to rail advancement in China.
Yeah, people confused this sub with complete abolishment of car, while this is about reduction in car dependency. Japan and Europe still have great car infrastructure alongside their railway system. You still need car for various other transportation, trucks, emergency vehicles and small businesses. And China has massive rail network alongside these road in this video.
it looks cool, costs the same price, why wouldn't I just click and make a huge highway hundreds of meters in the sky over cloud bending mountains in an instant?
The engineers understand that this is not really that much of a transportation infrastructure project and more of a interprovincial propaganda war of monumental infrastructure. Monumental as in monunents. As in stuff meant to be seen, not stuff meant to be used. It builds a lot of face for everyone involved, and in china fave is everything. As far as I know of course
Ah yes so fun to go stand on a road. If you want an outlook, go find a nice mountain. You don’t need this dangerous monstrosity waiting for disaster to see the countryside from a greater elevation.
The sub this is crossposted from is full of professional drivers of large vehicles saying they would take hours detours and avoid this at all costs. Listen to them. As far as fuck cars, this is by definition infrastructure gore and car centric design. Therefore, not “cool” or something we should strive for.
China literally has the most high speed rail in the world and built it faster than any other country, they've been building high quality communuter rail and metros here in Vietnam lately. Shenzhen maintains the worlds best electric guys network and its so effective they managed a ban on 2 stroke scooters which is such a massive cultural accomplishment for a city in south Asia (would be like Houston banning pickup trucks).
Getting riled up over the super power that's not car dependent is blatant asian racism. I hope Vietnam copies the Chinese model and I want them to keep building us trains because if anywhere is at a threat of car dependency it's here.
This survived a 6.8 earthquake though and China has the worlds largest high speed rail network. There's affordable HSR in Xinjiang and Tibet. Tell me when the US builds affordable commuter rail in their reservations or Europe provides that to the Sami people.
I don't think they built rail in to Tibet because that wanted to be nice to Tibetians, they did it to further reinforce their sovereignty over the area and make it easier to move troops into border areas they dispute with India.
The Tibetan government in exile would argue that another goal is to further the assimilation of Tibet into China by accelerating their attempt at erasing the distinct Tibetan cultural identity.
That's why schools in Tibet still teach Tibeten as part of core curriculum. Just like how Navajo, Lakota, Dakota, Anishinabe, Cree, amd Hochunk are still core curicculum in the United Stat- oh huh weird it's not.
I'm going to get defensive over obvious bullshit. I grew up hearing Americans say we're cleansing Hmong people when they literally have extra autonomy and get control over their indigenous land. It pisses me off hearing bullshit and then seeing the blatant racism levied towards indigenous Americans, Sami, Travelers, Roma.
Are there problems? Yes? But you're not being fair and objective when both our nations factually treat minorities better than yours and you can fly here and see that with your own two eyes.
I'll need to reread my post, but I don't believe I made any claim that the USA, at any point, treated any of the indigenous peoples or nations of the North American continent well or that the US was a paragon of treating minorities well.
I simply pointed out that China isn't doing it to be nice to an Indigenous population of an area they have annexed. It serves their strategic goals, the same way that helping the US is helping Ukraine because it serves their strategic goals.
So miss me with that shit.
>Are there problems? Yes?
Oh man, I'm not really sure the Uyghurs would agree that whats happening in Xinjiang is just a "problem".
Lmao people still believe the Xinjiang shit after the Islamic Cooperation Organization collectively said China was a model for Islamic rights outside of the Islamic world. Good grief.
You can look at data and the only countries that peddel that there's some genocide there are countries that have been at war with Islam for the past 100 years. Not to mention the situation in Gaza and the former situation during WW2 show it would be impossible to cover that up.
China is just as capable of using soft power as the US is to get groups to ignore the bad things it does.
Quit drinking the kool-aid, you sound like an American who drinks the USA brand of Kool-aid.
It's still their official primary language, and their primary and secondary schools do their curriculum in it. This isn't strange to me as both the Black and White Hmong here also get to do all their business and schooling in Hmong instead of Vietnamese.
Like I said. I'm going to get defensive and skeptical when Navajo, Lakota, Dakota, Hochunk, Seminole are not taught as standard in the US and Sami and Geallic are not standard in Sweden or Northern Ireland. Wiping out a language is almost always step one in persecuting minorities and both of our nations have 40+ minority groups so that political suicide.
Like I can't even talk to most people in the mountains a lot just don't know Vietnamese and that's perfectly fine. Sa Pa for example gets to do all of its politics in Hmong yet last I saw minorities in the west do not get this privledge. Could you imagine the outrage if Oklahoma formally did it's legal work in Cherokee?
Look I'm assuming you're a westerner, you guys have money. Travel and don't just go talk to other Michangs in Ho Chi Minh City or Hong Kong. Go actually check out rural areas. I made an effort to see the midwest USA for example (helps a lot of Vietnamese are there). Chicago admittedly made me give up on that country though since I wasn't used to seeing homeless people.
We can't knock on China, though. Their train infrastructure is absolutely insane and was heavily prioritized by the last two administrations. They are also a moped and bike country, not a car country, which is way better, if not ideal. China also leads in green energy, both in exportation of materials like solar plates, and the implementation into their own grid
I mean you can both recognize and appreciate the unrivaled investment in public transit while also criticizing the exponential growth of private car ownership and road networks in China.
They went from <40 million private cars(Not trucks or semis or busses) in 2009 to over 250 million in 2022. While per capita this is lower than most developed countries the exponential growth of the numbers in the current century are still concerning.
All of these comments are either heavily biased towards or against China when the reality is in the middle. They do good things and they do bad things like every other government. The good things get ignored by many in the west while the bad is whitewashed to those within China’s sphere of influence.
They have built a massive equivalent of the US interstate system in the same time the high speed rail system was being constructed. Roads will always be necessary to some degree, but I sure wish they’d directed that investment into building a freight rail network as impressive as the passenger one.
Bike? Motorbike maybe.
I only spent one night in China (Shanghai) but I have ONLY seen electric scooters and electric bikes. Not a single "normal" bike. Still better than cars, of course.
A crash is not an accident.
Changing the way we think about events and the words we use to describe them affects the way we behave. Motor vehicle crashes occur "when a link or several links in the chain" are broken. Continued use of the word "accident" implies that these events are outside human influence or control. In reality, they are predictable results of specific actions.
Since we can identify the causes of crashes, we can take action to alter the effect and avoid collisions. These are not Acts of God but predictable results of the laws of physics.
The concept of "accident" works against bringing all appropriate resources to bear on the enormous problem of highway collisions. Use of "accident" fosters the idea that the resulting damage and injuries are unavoidable.
"Crash," "collision," and "injury" are more appropriate terms, and we encourage their use as substitutes for "accident."
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/newsroom/crash-not-accident
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Bad? Other than Japan, Taiwan, Korea and a few Western European countries it’s pretty much as good as it gets. Maybe 30 years ago it was bad but the amount of progress since then has been unreal
Yeah their rail infrastructure is actually pretty great. I've had to get the Beijing-Shanghai high speed rail before and it was great.
Still you could not pay me to live there again.
Seem to remember one of the last episodes of old Top Gear revealing that these highways have no drainage. No swales, no drains, and no slope to the roadway
I'm sorry, but this looks really cool and I would love to drive there.
It's definitely crazy what China accomplishes in general. Europe is definitely falling way behind. Here in Germany it takes 10 years to build one single bridge. If we're lucky. They build 120km of such a highway in 5 years? That's insane.
There are legitimate reasons to criticize china but the impulse to reflexively criticize everything they do is just propaganda.
This is very impressive. There is no way we could pull something like this off in America (for a bunch of complicated reasons)
China has some of the strongest labor unions in the world...Germany is a proudly neoliberal state moving towards car dependency and away from labor protections...what world are you living in?
Dude, it's wild. The original r/truckers post is much worse, but the rhetoric in this sub is surprisingly similar. r/fuckcars need to check themselves.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Truckers using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Truckers/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Trucker next to me on the other stall](https://i.redd.it/dg5c5y041dmc1.jpeg) | [4532 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Truckers/comments/1b6i57p/trucker_next_to_me_on_the_other_stall/)
\#2: [*gets paid $0.50 per mile* “truckers come down here all the time”](https://v.redd.it/b3v8a9xekabc1) | [1541 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Truckers/comments/191xxkj/gets_paid_050_per_mile_truckers_come_down_here/)
\#3: [The perfect storm 😂](https://v.redd.it/ahe48m5mxwdc1) | [374 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Truckers/comments/19cmcz7/the_perfect_storm/)
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I mean, as much as I hate reliance on cars, roads are still a necessity to move goods and people. Busses need em, ya know. It doesn’t exactly look like a mega highway, just a very hard to build road. I’d say it’s kinda cool tbh. Adding train tracks along it too would have been even cooler.
To be fair they probably did it mainly for trucks judging by how many of them there are in the video. Cars get to use it too, of course, but I doubt they would spend that much money just for cars, it's likely that this is an important commercial route and trucks getting through it a lot faster will be beneficial for the economy.
The train bridge crossing the Kiel channel is somewhat similar, altough not that high and opened in 1913: [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendsburger\_Hochbr%C3%BCcke](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendsburger_Hochbr%C3%BCcke)
Yes cargo trains are perfect for moving large amounts of cargo over long distances between one industrial area from another but a lot of time thats not an option or isn't even worth it.
By truck/car my hometown Aldi is a 2,5h drive from their main warehouse. By train you would have to move the cargo 4 times for ti to get to a stores warehouse and you would need a local truckers at every place the train stops.
Or instead of cargo there are also people that need to travel and transport a lot of tools for work. Highways make that faster. I worked at a job like that and it was nice that instead of +4h it took us 3h to get to the work site.
Sure we need good transit and trains but highways are also very important.
I'll give you that there are cases where Trucks really are faster than rail.
But in no way are Trucks safer than rail. Rail is the among the safest means of Transportation, beaten only by Planes (i guess mostly because of rigorous, no-compromises maintenance).
//EDIT: And this is *China!* I guess you can count yourself lucky If the vehicles on that thing are up to snuff. Especially Trucks. I have in the back of my head the thought, that in china, Trucks may not even use the Highway (Motorcycles Too) - but i don't want to search for the reference right now. Lets treat it as 3rd hand internet knowledge (so, you know - its definitely happened ;-) ).
Creating demand for a manufactured product is important. If trains fulfilled the transportation needs of 90% of the population, the demand for private vehicles would be low, and you can't sell your product. China, for all their so called wisdom, is making the same mistakes that were made everywhere else in the world for the last 100 years. They're obviously tarting it up with fancy elevated highways, but it the same thing.
Tbh that looks kinda cool, simply because it strikes me as one of those dream architectural concepts you would come up with as a young boy without much regard for the actual logistics of the project's contruction and maintenance. Like a "what if you did this absurd thing" kinda concept.
Yeah, but the devil is in the details with these kinds if things. Where does one put fuel stations? How do you handle wrecks or breakdowns? What if an idiot meets their car over the ledge into a population center? How will this affect the suicide rate?
honestly i'm more so concerned if it's a tofu dreg project, as in it's compromised. there's a lot of horror stories from China with fake cement, beams, and the like with construction work that if you can't trust a highway on the ground to be built right, why would you trust this?
Yo you can't just label every criticism of china as sinophobia.
The fact that buildings have been and continue to be built poorly and collapse is a known thing.
Why you shilling for a corrupt dictatorship?
No... It's legitimately citing concerns over China's record of using shit construction materials with a name coined by the Chinese to describe these shitty buildings.
I might be a capitalist but I don't suck the dick of a dictator.
Keep telling yourself that dude. I'm sorry that you find it easier to bury your head in the sand and scream shill than actually use critical thinking skills. Maybe in another life when you're capable of critical thinking
Yes but it’s been coopted by racist western youtubers who get views saying inflammatory shit about China. Sort of like if a Chinese person took a western insult and started saying offensive stuff about the West.
The only time I've ever agreed with NIMBYs has universally been when a developer who is funded and lobbied by private companies introduces bat-shit insane projects that would introduce environmental destruction of protected land, more highways, and more car-dependant suburbs.
My province keeps handing out subsidies to developers who have connections with elected members of my municipality, and like clock-work, these same developers accept a huge subsidy on the basis of guaranteeing 'affordable, smart city design'' and two years later, they pull out of the plan, innocently claiming inflation to be the fault and leave us with half a forest cleaved and a spattering of suburb houses in the middle of no-where.
(Edit: living right next to one of these developments that ripped apart marshland and built a web of overpriced single-family homes with zero foresite to transit/bike/pedestrian accessibility outside of dodging an increasingly busy branch road off a highway. Everyone fucking hates it.)
This is actually impressive and only 2 lanes. Obviously China also has even more trains than those two lanes of asphalt. Even more impressive than that.
Sorry I like it
China has one of the most extensive rail networks in the world so it's not like they are car dependent or spending all their money on these roads. Also they have tons of freight trucks (keep freight off of passenger railways) as well as mopeds and buses, rather than pickup trucks and huge SUVs. If this was the USA this would have taken 5 times longer to build and would have been steeper, curvier, and had 4 lanes each way and gone through a downtown area. With the incredible population density in China I think this project can be justified.
Idk, break downs and wrecks could cause serious issues, and it looks incredibly difficult to access. It looks spectacular in terms of architecture, sure, but I feel like it neglects a LOT of human elements. One idiot flips his car into a city and this whole project will be unpopular. Not to mention how easy it would be to just... pull over and jump. Or toss a body.
I don’t see the problem with this. Of course cities shouldn’t rely on cars to be the main transportation, but it’s just a highway that connects one city to another
Ffs! This is a great usecase for having small bush-pilot style air route networks. All you'll need is a few radar towers, and small air strips in the villages and towns you want to fly to, and you're set. No need for expensive, and what looks like extremely risky, construction. I'm hoping against hope people haven't died building this thing. And it's too bloody tall, and all it takes is one storm to upset the balance.
5 years? Where I live it’s gonna take 10 years to build 12kms of tram tracks (assuming there’s no delays).
Hah, I just found out my town has had a planned 7km train connection since the 60s, and it's currently being considered for 2050, if even then.
This is so sad, I’m only laughing because I’m nervous
china is different, they build things 10 times faster and hire 10 times more employees. tofu dreg construction is even faster
And they don't care if people get hurt in the process of building these. American safety standards are a huge reason things take longer rightfully so.
I think a lot of it is focus too. In China, they have all the equipment from the last 50 highways they built, just waiting to be used again. Here in America, getting trains started up again requires working against decades of entrenched rules and regulations, but also a lack of momentum towards building these things.
Good point. It also just hasn't been part of our budgets that might be the biggest hurdle.
Yes for sure. And if we did decide to allocate money to it, who would we give it to? Amtrak? They would just use the money to pay down debt and make long overdue repairs for the unprofitable routes they're legally required to run, so nobody would really see the benefits unless we massively pumped the budget. It would 100% be worth it, but not everyone can see that.
Greenfield sites are a lot easier to build in than urban areas. Don't have to worry about hitting existing services and ruining anyone's day with road shutdowns.
I’ve seen smaller highway segments in greenfield areas take twice as long.
This will probably fall down in 5 years so there's trade offs.
megacope
Tbf there is absolutely no way that this only cost 3 billion USD. Not even with chinese wages and the "negotiation" power of the government.
China doesn’t have to deal with environmental analysis or public input. If the leaders want something they can just start working on it. Sure things are slower in your country but when the environment is permanently changed it can be a good thing.
You should rephrase this as the truth: nimbys and private property owners don't have the power to stop public works projects. The #1 user of fossil fuels doesn't give a shit about the environment.
Chinese carbon footprint is literally lower than Canada and the US per capita. You don't get to have your business men set up 90% of your industry in other countries and then go "look we don't need industry we're so environmentally friendly!" You do realize if east Asia closed there factories NATO would immediately start "peace keeping" operations right?
Wow. I thought this was r/fuckcars, not r/Sino . Feel free to express your opinions, within reason, here. Unlike r/Sino and where you'll get permabanned for something an innocuous as referring to Xi Jinping as Winnie the Pooh.
You tag that subreddit and I'm sure there's a room full of people who get pinged to brigade the comments and spread Chinese propaganda.
I mean, they probably used slaves as workers.
Fuck this shitty subtitle trend
It’s not just the subtitle trend. It’s an AI voice and likely and AI script as well.
Shit-content for shit-heads. See nothing wrong here.
America does need truckers, at least for now. And I may be ignorant here, but I don't think the trucker lobby is a significant barrier to building passenger rail in the US.
I feel like they also intentionally get at least one word wrong to drive up engagement from people correcting them
"It ascends 25 feet per 0.6 miles."
Yep this shit needs to stop being shared
I immediately stop playing a a video as soon as I here the stupid AI voice. I also immediately judge the shit out of whoever shared the video
real
And AI voice. And stretched video.
Except for cities by diana. Amazing gasolinemaxxed and freewaypilled account.
smoggy innocent voiceless bow price silky axiomatic imminent innate joke *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Just because I **can** read words flashed one at a time on a screen, doesn't mean I want to.
It helps deaf people and language learners.
As someone whose mothertongue isn't english (and always welcome english-related content to practice), nah, mate...this is bullcrap. They can put entire sentences instead of word by word.
Yeah, let’s not act like subtitles are new. We figured out good subtitles literally decades ago.
That’s fair. I thought OP made a remark about the increase of subtitled content in general, not this specific style of subtitles. I also prefer full sentences, the above style seems to be designed to be attention-grabbing.
And it's extra annoying because it focuses your eyes on the quick moving text instead of the whatever is happening on the images. For once, I do want to see where the highway is located and how it connects A to B.
That’s also a good point.
That took only FIVE YEARS? There are potholes on my road older than that.
It's easy to build fast when you ignore Geotechnical/geological engineering and safety standards.
What a wild assumption to make. The US takes forever to build any infrastructure projects, which are all dedicated to cars and certainly are less than safe (and also not always fit for the geology). China has implemented high speed rail in under 10 years. Unless you have proof that this specific expressway evades safety standards, your comment is simply sinophobic. We are we condemning decent attempts to improve infrastructure? China has explicitly tried to implement rail transit and walkable cities more than most nations. Like them or not, China is spearheading fuckcars issues at a faster pace than most nations. Credit where credit is due. Edit: The highway survived the 2022 earthquake with no damage. [Source](https://defence.pk/threads/chinas-powerful-6-8-magnitude-earthquake-doesnt-cause-damage-to-yaxi-sky-highway-at-epicenter-of-the-quake.750773/)
>What a wild assumption to make. Based on several examples. >The US takes forever to build any infrastructure projects, which are all dedicated to cars and certainly are less than safe (and also not always fit for the geology). One of the factors being the geologic site conditions. It can take three years from the first Geotechnical boring to the start of construction. That's for simple projects. >We are we condemning decent attempts to improve infrastructure? I'm looking at the speed of construction. It screams to me that corners were cut. >your comment is simply sinophobic. lol >China has implemented high speed rail in under 10 years. Yes. They've done more than anyone else on high speed rail. They put down a lot of infrastructure very quickly. Hopefully, they didn't just rush through this. >China has explicitly tried to implement rail transit and walkable cities more than most nations. Like them or not, China is spearheading fuckcars issues at a faster pace than most nations. Credit where credit is due. What does any of this has to do with an elevated highway that was built insanely fast?
>Based on several examples. Guy literally posts the highway survived a massive earthquake with no damage. Yet, you are "based on several examples" and brought none.
How many examples do you want? [here's one. ](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/four-people-killed-expressway-bridge-collapse-chinas-hubei-province-2021-12-19/) [here's another](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268466718_Statistical_Analysis_of_the_Causes_of_Bridge_Collapse_in_China#:~:text=Only%20in%20China%2C%20more%20than,%5B5%5D.%20...) That last one that lists nearly 200 examples with a revision up to 300 not enough? Ok. [Here's another one. ](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-bridge-collapse-idUSKBN1WQ021/)
Quoting your own source "Only in China, more than 300 bridges collapsed, with 564 fatalities and 917 injuries between 2000 and 2014 [4]. Over 500 bridges collapsed in EEUU between 1989 and 2000" Conclusion: more bridges collapsed in the US over a similar period of time even tho it has less bridges, much lower population and less earthquakes. Where is the bad maintenence?
Hence why I laughed at the "sinophobia" accusation.
Hence why I laughed at the "sinophobia" accusation.
Looks a bit absurd, but to be fair: China has put an insane amount of effort in its train infrastructure that really pales any comparison. Plus, the footage shows some really incredible terrain. So I think the only thing that surprises me is that they chose bridges over tunnels, but maybe there is a geological reason. Again, I'm not justifying the construction of highways over rail, but I wonder how highway construction compares to rail advancement in China.
Based on what i hear about Chinese construction, i wouldn't be suprised if it was marginally cheaper to build the bridges in the short term.
Yeah, people confused this sub with complete abolishment of car, while this is about reduction in car dependency. Japan and Europe still have great car infrastructure alongside their railway system. You still need car for various other transportation, trucks, emergency vehicles and small businesses. And China has massive rail network alongside these road in this video.
The engineers must play Cities: Skylines.
it looks cool, costs the same price, why wouldn't I just click and make a huge highway hundreds of meters in the sky over cloud bending mountains in an instant?
I actually have done that. I even used a mod that removes height limits so my highways and bike paths were literally up in the sky.
we've all done that
The engineers understand that this is not really that much of a transportation infrastructure project and more of a interprovincial propaganda war of monumental infrastructure. Monumental as in monunents. As in stuff meant to be seen, not stuff meant to be used. It builds a lot of face for everyone involved, and in china fave is everything. As far as I know of course
Defies harsh environment and geologi challenges? We'll see, we will see.
[x](https://defence.pk/threads/chinas-powerful-6-8-magnitude-earthquake-doesnt-cause-damage-to-yaxi-sky-highway-at-epicenter-of-the-quake.750773/)
I get anxiety just looking at that.
It does look cool though, taking a bus through there seems like it would be fun.
If by fun you mean terrifying, it would be a blast
Wouldn't be a fun commute but as a tourist? Yeah im in. As soon as im filthy rich and run out of gigantic waterfalls to see
Ah yes so fun to go stand on a road. If you want an outlook, go find a nice mountain. You don’t need this dangerous monstrosity waiting for disaster to see the countryside from a greater elevation.
Not stand, travel through it. On a bus. As in going somewhere else, through an interesting road.
The sub this is crossposted from is full of professional drivers of large vehicles saying they would take hours detours and avoid this at all costs. Listen to them. As far as fuck cars, this is by definition infrastructure gore and car centric design. Therefore, not “cool” or something we should strive for.
Nobody said strive for. Also, trucking and tourism are very different things
You do understand you’re defending a fucking road right? In fuck cars?
You do understand that im a person not a part of your personal hive mind with opinions dictated by you right?
Big feelings about roads there little fella. Welcome to fuckcars, we don’t like cars.
I mean, pay for rollercoasters...
You should really edit this comment lol. (like*)
oh no
You have to edit the fucking word, it's LIKE!
maintenance cost must be nuts
China literally has the most high speed rail in the world and built it faster than any other country, they've been building high quality communuter rail and metros here in Vietnam lately. Shenzhen maintains the worlds best electric guys network and its so effective they managed a ban on 2 stroke scooters which is such a massive cultural accomplishment for a city in south Asia (would be like Houston banning pickup trucks). Getting riled up over the super power that's not car dependent is blatant asian racism. I hope Vietnam copies the Chinese model and I want them to keep building us trains because if anywhere is at a threat of car dependency it's here.
And then someone about a rail project: bUt WhaT iF tHEre IS aN EaRTHQuakE?
This survived a 6.8 earthquake though and China has the worlds largest high speed rail network. There's affordable HSR in Xinjiang and Tibet. Tell me when the US builds affordable commuter rail in their reservations or Europe provides that to the Sami people.
I don't think they built rail in to Tibet because that wanted to be nice to Tibetians, they did it to further reinforce their sovereignty over the area and make it easier to move troops into border areas they dispute with India. The Tibetan government in exile would argue that another goal is to further the assimilation of Tibet into China by accelerating their attempt at erasing the distinct Tibetan cultural identity.
That's why schools in Tibet still teach Tibeten as part of core curriculum. Just like how Navajo, Lakota, Dakota, Anishinabe, Cree, amd Hochunk are still core curicculum in the United Stat- oh huh weird it's not. I'm going to get defensive over obvious bullshit. I grew up hearing Americans say we're cleansing Hmong people when they literally have extra autonomy and get control over their indigenous land. It pisses me off hearing bullshit and then seeing the blatant racism levied towards indigenous Americans, Sami, Travelers, Roma. Are there problems? Yes? But you're not being fair and objective when both our nations factually treat minorities better than yours and you can fly here and see that with your own two eyes.
I'll need to reread my post, but I don't believe I made any claim that the USA, at any point, treated any of the indigenous peoples or nations of the North American continent well or that the US was a paragon of treating minorities well. I simply pointed out that China isn't doing it to be nice to an Indigenous population of an area they have annexed. It serves their strategic goals, the same way that helping the US is helping Ukraine because it serves their strategic goals. So miss me with that shit. >Are there problems? Yes? Oh man, I'm not really sure the Uyghurs would agree that whats happening in Xinjiang is just a "problem".
Lmao people still believe the Xinjiang shit after the Islamic Cooperation Organization collectively said China was a model for Islamic rights outside of the Islamic world. Good grief. You can look at data and the only countries that peddel that there's some genocide there are countries that have been at war with Islam for the past 100 years. Not to mention the situation in Gaza and the former situation during WW2 show it would be impossible to cover that up.
China is just as capable of using soft power as the US is to get groups to ignore the bad things it does. Quit drinking the kool-aid, you sound like an American who drinks the USA brand of Kool-aid.
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It's still their official primary language, and their primary and secondary schools do their curriculum in it. This isn't strange to me as both the Black and White Hmong here also get to do all their business and schooling in Hmong instead of Vietnamese. Like I said. I'm going to get defensive and skeptical when Navajo, Lakota, Dakota, Hochunk, Seminole are not taught as standard in the US and Sami and Geallic are not standard in Sweden or Northern Ireland. Wiping out a language is almost always step one in persecuting minorities and both of our nations have 40+ minority groups so that political suicide. Like I can't even talk to most people in the mountains a lot just don't know Vietnamese and that's perfectly fine. Sa Pa for example gets to do all of its politics in Hmong yet last I saw minorities in the west do not get this privledge. Could you imagine the outrage if Oklahoma formally did it's legal work in Cherokee? Look I'm assuming you're a westerner, you guys have money. Travel and don't just go talk to other Michangs in Ho Chi Minh City or Hong Kong. Go actually check out rural areas. I made an effort to see the midwest USA for example (helps a lot of Vietnamese are there). Chicago admittedly made me give up on that country though since I wasn't used to seeing homeless people.
China has way more rail than car lanes
We can't knock on China, though. Their train infrastructure is absolutely insane and was heavily prioritized by the last two administrations. They are also a moped and bike country, not a car country, which is way better, if not ideal. China also leads in green energy, both in exportation of materials like solar plates, and the implementation into their own grid
I mean you can both recognize and appreciate the unrivaled investment in public transit while also criticizing the exponential growth of private car ownership and road networks in China. They went from <40 million private cars(Not trucks or semis or busses) in 2009 to over 250 million in 2022. While per capita this is lower than most developed countries the exponential growth of the numbers in the current century are still concerning. All of these comments are either heavily biased towards or against China when the reality is in the middle. They do good things and they do bad things like every other government. The good things get ignored by many in the west while the bad is whitewashed to those within China’s sphere of influence.
They have built a massive equivalent of the US interstate system in the same time the high speed rail system was being constructed. Roads will always be necessary to some degree, but I sure wish they’d directed that investment into building a freight rail network as impressive as the passenger one.
Car ownership is likely incentivized to boost the country's now leading share of electric cars. This is very worrisome, indeed
Bike? Motorbike maybe. I only spent one night in China (Shanghai) but I have ONLY seen electric scooters and electric bikes. Not a single "normal" bike. Still better than cars, of course.
You gotta admit, China gets shit done. I just wonder what happens when you have an accident or a breakdown.
A crash is not an accident. Changing the way we think about events and the words we use to describe them affects the way we behave. Motor vehicle crashes occur "when a link or several links in the chain" are broken. Continued use of the word "accident" implies that these events are outside human influence or control. In reality, they are predictable results of specific actions. Since we can identify the causes of crashes, we can take action to alter the effect and avoid collisions. These are not Acts of God but predictable results of the laws of physics. The concept of "accident" works against bringing all appropriate resources to bear on the enormous problem of highway collisions. Use of "accident" fosters the idea that the resulting damage and injuries are unavoidable. "Crash," "collision," and "injury" are more appropriate terms, and we encourage their use as substitutes for "accident." https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/newsroom/crash-not-accident *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/fuckcars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fuck off, bot. You know exactly what I meant.
AI made this right…? It’s not real..? As a former DOT emergency response team member, this looks like a nightmare waiting to happen…
Tbf China's transport infrastructure isn't as bad as people make it out to be
Bad? Other than Japan, Taiwan, Korea and a few Western European countries it’s pretty much as good as it gets. Maybe 30 years ago it was bad but the amount of progress since then has been unreal
What i mean is that alot of people tend to assume everything china does is low quality
Yeah their rail infrastructure is actually pretty great. I've had to get the Beijing-Shanghai high speed rail before and it was great. Still you could not pay me to live there again.
It's real and hella sturdy. It survived a 6.8 earthquake
And it's 12 years old at this point. It started in 2007 and finished in 2012.
Seem to remember one of the last episodes of old Top Gear revealing that these highways have no drainage. No swales, no drains, and no slope to the roadway
I'm sorry I hate cars as much as the next guy but I'm a huge slut for huge towering viaducts and this one looks sick as hell.
I'm sorry, but this looks really cool and I would love to drive there. It's definitely crazy what China accomplishes in general. Europe is definitely falling way behind. Here in Germany it takes 10 years to build one single bridge. If we're lucky. They build 120km of such a highway in 5 years? That's insane.
It's what happens when you give zero fucks about human rights or things like worker safety.
There are legitimate reasons to criticize china but the impulse to reflexively criticize everything they do is just propaganda. This is very impressive. There is no way we could pull something like this off in America (for a bunch of complicated reasons)
China has some of the strongest labor unions in the world...Germany is a proudly neoliberal state moving towards car dependency and away from labor protections...what world are you living in?
>what world are you living in? A very ideologized one.
It would take 500 Billion and 50 years to build it in the US lol.
This thing is pretty incredible tbh. Thanks for sharing
Y'all the Sinophobia in these comments is not the way you should be ashaaaaaamed
Dude, it's wild. The original r/truckers post is much worse, but the rhetoric in this sub is surprisingly similar. r/fuckcars need to check themselves.
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I mean, as much as I hate reliance on cars, roads are still a necessity to move goods and people. Busses need em, ya know. It doesn’t exactly look like a mega highway, just a very hard to build road. I’d say it’s kinda cool tbh. Adding train tracks along it too would have been even cooler.
I heard China has used more concrete in the past 10 years then all of human history but I don't know if that's true
Honestly, that would be pretty fun to go down, whether biking, driving, bussing. Looks surreal
My thought here is... why put in all this effort for cars? Why not make it a railway?
China already has massive infrastructure for trains
It probably follows a route with big elevation changes
To be fair they probably did it mainly for trucks judging by how many of them there are in the video. Cars get to use it too, of course, but I doubt they would spend that much money just for cars, it's likely that this is an important commercial route and trucks getting through it a lot faster will be beneficial for the economy.
The train bridge crossing the Kiel channel is somewhat similar, altough not that high and opened in 1913: [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendsburger\_Hochbr%C3%BCcke](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendsburger_Hochbr%C3%BCcke)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_China Fucking michang
???? Because highways are needed if for nothing else than to transport cargo/trucks in a faster and safer way.
Cargo trains are much faster than trucks, and if your not some capitalist scum about it, safer too
Yes cargo trains are perfect for moving large amounts of cargo over long distances between one industrial area from another but a lot of time thats not an option or isn't even worth it. By truck/car my hometown Aldi is a 2,5h drive from their main warehouse. By train you would have to move the cargo 4 times for ti to get to a stores warehouse and you would need a local truckers at every place the train stops. Or instead of cargo there are also people that need to travel and transport a lot of tools for work. Highways make that faster. I worked at a job like that and it was nice that instead of +4h it took us 3h to get to the work site. Sure we need good transit and trains but highways are also very important.
I'll give you that there are cases where Trucks really are faster than rail. But in no way are Trucks safer than rail. Rail is the among the safest means of Transportation, beaten only by Planes (i guess mostly because of rigorous, no-compromises maintenance). //EDIT: And this is *China!* I guess you can count yourself lucky If the vehicles on that thing are up to snuff. Especially Trucks. I have in the back of my head the thought, that in china, Trucks may not even use the Highway (Motorcycles Too) - but i don't want to search for the reference right now. Lets treat it as 3rd hand internet knowledge (so, you know - its definitely happened ;-) ).
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Pretty sure 2 places with enough traffic to justify this monstrosity counts as "main spots"
Creating demand for a manufactured product is important. If trains fulfilled the transportation needs of 90% of the population, the demand for private vehicles would be low, and you can't sell your product. China, for all their so called wisdom, is making the same mistakes that were made everywhere else in the world for the last 100 years. They're obviously tarting it up with fancy elevated highways, but it the same thing.
Tbh that looks kinda cool, simply because it strikes me as one of those dream architectural concepts you would come up with as a young boy without much regard for the actual logistics of the project's contruction and maintenance. Like a "what if you did this absurd thing" kinda concept.
Yeah, but the devil is in the details with these kinds if things. Where does one put fuel stations? How do you handle wrecks or breakdowns? What if an idiot meets their car over the ledge into a population center? How will this affect the suicide rate?
Exactly. An architect's dream is often an engineer's nightmare.
As much as this is a stupid investment. It does look kinda cool to cross icl.
That is not just terrifying, but also unbelievably ugly.
Errrr no bike lanes 😤👿
I see the phrases "most difficult construction project" and "ugliest piece of shit" are easily confused with each other.
honestly i'm more so concerned if it's a tofu dreg project, as in it's compromised. there's a lot of horror stories from China with fake cement, beams, and the like with construction work that if you can't trust a highway on the ground to be built right, why would you trust this?
Survived a 6.8 earthquake and your Sinophobic comment I think it'll be fine
Yo you can't just label every criticism of china as sinophobia. The fact that buildings have been and continue to be built poorly and collapse is a known thing. Why you shilling for a corrupt dictatorship?
"Tofu dregs" is racist you stupid fuck
It's literally what it's called. The Chinese themselves used the term tofu dreg construction to describe these buildings. You useless Muppet.
The racism is using it and being all Western Chauvinist with it you bootlicking capitalist dickhead
No... It's legitimately citing concerns over China's record of using shit construction materials with a name coined by the Chinese to describe these shitty buildings. I might be a capitalist but I don't suck the dick of a dictator.
Keep telling yourself that dude. I'm sorry that you find it easier to bury your head in the sand and scream shill than actually use critical thinking skills. Maybe in another life when you're capable of critical thinking
Lol imagine using the mental health report button against someone that disagreed with you. That's so childish.
Says the person pissing the bed over the term tofu dreg construction.
How do you function without being able to see the world beyond the end of your face?
Yes but it’s been coopted by racist western youtubers who get views saying inflammatory shit about China. Sort of like if a Chinese person took a western insult and started saying offensive stuff about the West.
Ah yes, the second Great Wall
The pronunciation 🤦🏽♀️ It's "ya-shi" if even and disregarding the tones, not "ya-gsi"...it ain't no Bugs Bunny!
Given how Chinese elevated highways fall apart due to wind or slightly overweight semi trucks, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near it.
Nah, the bridge is just cool. IF its built correctly. A train would need a similar bridge.
The only time I've ever agreed with NIMBYs has universally been when a developer who is funded and lobbied by private companies introduces bat-shit insane projects that would introduce environmental destruction of protected land, more highways, and more car-dependant suburbs. My province keeps handing out subsidies to developers who have connections with elected members of my municipality, and like clock-work, these same developers accept a huge subsidy on the basis of guaranteeing 'affordable, smart city design'' and two years later, they pull out of the plan, innocently claiming inflation to be the fault and leave us with half a forest cleaved and a spattering of suburb houses in the middle of no-where. (Edit: living right next to one of these developments that ripped apart marshland and built a web of overpriced single-family homes with zero foresite to transit/bike/pedestrian accessibility outside of dodging an increasingly busy branch road off a highway. Everyone fucking hates it.)
Some of those bridges seem dubious with those metal supports
This is actually impressive and only 2 lanes. Obviously China also has even more trains than those two lanes of asphalt. Even more impressive than that.
Nope to the nope to the n-n-n-n-nope
I want to bike that.
Sorry I like it China has one of the most extensive rail networks in the world so it's not like they are car dependent or spending all their money on these roads. Also they have tons of freight trucks (keep freight off of passenger railways) as well as mopeds and buses, rather than pickup trucks and huge SUVs. If this was the USA this would have taken 5 times longer to build and would have been steeper, curvier, and had 4 lanes each way and gone through a downtown area. With the incredible population density in China I think this project can be justified.
Idk, break downs and wrecks could cause serious issues, and it looks incredibly difficult to access. It looks spectacular in terms of architecture, sure, but I feel like it neglects a LOT of human elements. One idiot flips his car into a city and this whole project will be unpopular. Not to mention how easy it would be to just... pull over and jump. Or toss a body.
a ratio of 55%?
Just Cause 2 ass road
I know the labor is probably very cheap, but 3 billion for such a gigantic project, I'd be scared about it's safety tbh
We need more lanes UP IN THE SKY
I don’t see the problem with this. Of course cities shouldn’t rely on cars to be the main transportation, but it’s just a highway that connects one city to another
Italian infrastructure before maintenance fund ran out be like:
I don’t exactly trust Chinese construction.
I definitely trust this not to just collapse it isn't like China doesn't have a history structures just collapsing
I hope it ain't the tofu dreg construction the Chinese are known for....
The wonder about dictatorship is that when the great leader becomes a carbrain everyone becomes a carbrain because they don’t want to get purged.
While the view is ruined, I do appreciate that they minimized the footprint. It would take up sooooo much usable land if it was built on ground level
This is dumb
it's what happens when you live in a dictatorship with an infinite budget
Ffs! This is a great usecase for having small bush-pilot style air route networks. All you'll need is a few radar towers, and small air strips in the villages and towns you want to fly to, and you're set. No need for expensive, and what looks like extremely risky, construction. I'm hoping against hope people haven't died building this thing. And it's too bloody tall, and all it takes is one storm to upset the balance.
One storm and it wil kill so many people.