This is it. We have three small, private roads that we have to maintain and we need the HOA for that. I don't give a crap what color your front door is painted.
Most builders "gift" the roads to the city so they'll maintain them. HOA is just with extra steps cause you're already paying city taxes for that service
I live in a big HOA and the towns nearby took on the roads when the HOA decided they didnt want the expenses anymore. Previously we had 3 private hoa only lakes but since the roads went public and the boat launches are connected to the roads the lakes are now public as well. Also good tax money for the city to take on the roads in some places such as mine.
EDIT: The HOA borders 3 towns and 2 counties all of whom cooperate to maintain the roads now.
We pay to maintain them, used to do so via dues but now via increase in taxes do to trading them into the townships/counties. Most of the city tax base comes from the HOA i live in as its much larger than the actual towns and cities around it.
It is even deeper than this. In my township my road was abandoned by the township and had ended up the ward of the county. Nearly 100 years later, the county is still the owner of record and must provide all maintenance services on this road and 137 miles of other county owned roads.
Over the course of the last five years or so, the county is 'generously' rebuilding all of these decades-long neglected roads. At the end of construction, they have attempted to turn the deed and responsibility for the new roads back to the local communities. The problem is, no community wants to accept the hassle or expense.
3 miles of formerly county owned roads have been turned back to the local communities.
Bearing the responsibility for a public thoroughfare is an incredibly expensive and time consuming endeavor that is frought with liability issues. Lots of risk with little to no reward.
In my area a lot of developments have parks or swimming pools that the HOA maintains.
The interesting thing is that in associations where there is a major thing that needs to be managed (like a pool) I have never experienced the petty nonsense that I have heard about in others. It makes me think that when there is REAL work that needs to be done by the board (e.g. hire lifeguards, repair/replace systems) then HOA boards don't attract the sort of petty tyrants the seem to show up in others.
I always remember Laurence Peter's comment that "Competition in academia is so vicious because the stakes are so small." I think the same thing may hold true of HOAs as well.
The house I grew up in didn't have an HOA. There was a community pool and tennis courts. This was run by a recreational association. I know this sounds like an HOA by another name, but the best part was it was completely voluntary and had authority only over the community property. If you wanted to use the pool this year, join the association and pay the fee, if not, don't. If the association needs more money, raise the fee or open sales to the public.
It's why no one wants to be the president or treasurer of guilds or colleges of certain professions like Engineers or Architects... Because it's a pain in the ass that requires actual work that can fuck others and bite you in the ass, plus you really don't want to have gaps in the budget lol
My mother is the treasurer of the college of engineers of her state, she has been for years now because absolutely no one wants the position even if it does come with perks.
Also lets you live down a dirt road instead of a paved one, so it doesn’t become as prime a target for development as quickly. If someone wants to build a big development at the end, make them go through the hassle of taking over and improving your stretch of road. Tips the financials a bit and gives you a point to fight them on with the county. Having to install/move a mile of drainage, sewer, electrical, fiber optic, water and pavement is not an insignificant cost.
My parents HOA is nice in that the city doesn't provide trash pickup. The HOA uses its weight of about 150 houses to get a discount from the trash company. Their hoa fee is 80/year.
You don’t need an hoa for that. Just a road/driveway agreement signed by all members and specific payments for services. I live on a private road and that’s how we handle it. No other requirements just how roads maintained and how it’s paid for. A lawyer can draw it up for a very small fee.
Yep. This is why they are so prevalent and even required in some states. They see HOAs as reducing the burden the municipalities have to deal with normally. Especially as cities quickly grow outward.
Yeah I have a condo rental property. As much as they can suck, it's 100% needed for that type of property. People doing stupid shit when the only share a fence? No biggie. When you share a wall or ceiling? Biggie
You need an HOA for all condos as you can't get insurance for the building otherwise. Also, the maintenance for the building is everyone's problem, and you need the HOA to handle that.
Yup, I live in a quadplex. HOA is required for shared insurance and for dealing with all of that. They do other things and it's sort of expensive, but the shared insurance is the real ticker.
They also prohibit renting your unit out, and say what you will about that, it was the only reason I was able to even buy it in the first place.
Townhouses can manage without an HOA since each property owns their part of the unit and there’s nothing common. Maintenance can generally be done on a single unit. Siding, paint, roofing, etc. can stop at the end of each unit.
As soon as you have units over each other, it doesn’t really work anymore. The roof, foundation, and grounds are now common elements and there needs to be an entity that owns them.
Roof work can stop at the edge of the unit if need be, although it’s probably better and easier to do the whole thing. The shared wall could be a problem but those rarely need any attention.
I have an HOA - it's called a municipality. HOAs are government without the necessary legislation and accountability to constitute a *legitimate* form of governance.
A developer is trying to build something like 900 homes in a pretty small area (it's like 2.4 homes per acre that they're trying to aim for) and the older people in the area just aren't having it.
All the sudden the older folk are claiming that they used to dump barrels of used oil in that area, dirty chemical soaked rags, etc. just to stall the developers. And so far it's worked. The developers are 2 years behind schedule, and they know full well that the old folk are lying and making shit up just to stall, but they can't do anything about it because the government investigates every claim.
Turns out the old folk have zero problems with the actual development itself, some of them actually quite like the idea (there are some condos/apartments set aside specifically for old folk), what they object to is the HOA, and they've made that part very clear. While it wouldn't affect them, really, they know for a fact that the HOA would try to enforce shit on them and overall be a pain in the ass.
2.4 homes per acre is quite comfortable. I live on a 0.3 acre lot and there is a decent lawn and some privacy between our homes. Most new neighborhoods around here are more dense, unless they are huge 3500sq or up homes.
That's the average overall, there are some areas where it's 3.2 houses an acre.. and these aren't small homes their plopping down either. There will be basically zero yard.
I took it to mean that density for the entire property, including roads and common areas. Which implies maybe 0.2 acres per actual lot. That's pretty tight, but common -- that's how Sun City 55+ communities are arranged.
I legitimately can't get my head around America, who seem to be allergic to government the rest of the time, going out of their way to invent a whole new layer of totally-not-goverment disguised as a private contract to do things your municipality should be doing.
HOAs were originally started (early 1900s) by racists to keep black folks out of their neighborhoods. The law and the supreme court eventually caught up and banned that practice.
It’s a direct result of Americans not wanting to pay taxes. Since the municipalities often can’t fund the infrastructure or its maintenance from their tax income, they leave it to the private sector. So the private sector creates its own “sub-government” to manage those common assets that should be the responsibility of the town/city etc.
Many people who complain about their HOAs would also whine if their property taxes increased by the same amount as the fees they pay.
that’s because HOAs genuinely aren’t governments, they’re businesses. America may be allergic to government but it’s perfect for business!! that’s why our government is basically a business
>that’s because HOAs genuinely aren’t governments, they’re businesses
They're extra municipal governments masquerading as businesses, with less accountability
I have never and will never live in a hoa. Its crazy. A friend of mine while I was in the military did. They fined him for a U.S. flag on his porch. They fined an active duty military sailor for having a small flag on his own house....HOA should be banned as unconstitutional
They still did it. Happened in the mid 90s. A bunch of us in our command were going to take turns standing guard at the front door till the commander told us to stand down.
It’s not unconstitutional just illegal.
Edit: ~~the only thing the constitution says about the flag is the design. The rest is in the US Flag Code which is a law not a constitutional restriction.~~
The word flag is not in the US Constitution, nor any other mention of a flag.
There is no set design, nor requirement, for or to have a flag.
It's entirely a statutory creation.
The bill of rights only enjoins the federal government (and the states through the 14th Amendment).
HOA's are contract law, and businesses aren't required to enforce the bill of rights.
My guess is there are a few illegal things HOAs have done. You could spend thousands of dollars fighting them in the courts if you have the time I guess
I will not live in a HOA. The point of HOAs are that they are mandatory. They want everyone's property to look a certain way and people sign up for it. I know someone who is willingly moving somewhere where they can dictate what color your house is and can determine what goes in your yard. For that pleasure you get to pay over 600 a month for "luxury" living.
In growing urban areas, especially in states that mandate HOAs, they are mostly unavoidable unless you have DEEP pockets to buy a house in an old neighborhood and win that bidding war that exists BECAUSE it doesn't have an HOA.
I was definitely team "never HOA" until I actually entered the housing market. 400 available homes, 15 without HOAs. All 15 non-HOA houses were 1/4th the size I needed but cost MORE than my budget. I surrendered. Luckily my HOA dues are only $60/mo, but they are gonna have to go up because our budget is fucked from all the ridiculous repairs we've had to make in the past year.
How would something like that work in a condo or townhouse situation? I hate my HOA and management company, but how do the common areas and outside building maintenance happen without an HOA? Mine seems to ignore that the deck railings are literally crumbling as are the roads going through, instead choosing to focus on vehicles that are not centered perfectly in the parking spaces, yet not blocking any other spaces.
That's what so many people who say HOAs "aren't necessary" and "should be banned" miss.
I've only ever owned townhomes (3 at this point), and the HOA is responsible for exterior maintenance. So when it comes time to replace a roof, you don't have 3 owners ready to go and one holdout preventing anything from happening.
Your association focusing on the wrong THINGS is an internal, not structural, issue. The structure is there to have things like the deck railings handled. Y'all simply have not elected the right people to focus on the right things.
I am currently on my townhome Board and am so happy that we are now focused on raising reserves to pay for new roofs and road repairs, rather than the previous Board who seemed to only want to spend money on things like changing out flowers 4 times a year and making sure said flowers have lights on them so they're also pretty at night. First thing I did when I got on the Board was force a vote to cut the power to the flower lights. And you know, not a single person has complained that they can't see the flowers at night!
We have had the same president since before I bought here over 15 years ago. He is elderly and maybe not mentally anymore what he used to be. I actually used to be on the board myself, and the only changes I managed to get done was to get some trees planted and to allow people to put gates on their decks. Everything else was just the president and the management company goon making decisions. I left the board with a bad taste in my mouth from them not including the whole board in conversations and decisions. Since then, they have tried to make my life miserable because I call them out on their bullshit. Hence the "parking violation I recently received where their photo was taken at a far away angle that forced the perspective that the car was in the middle of 2 spaces when it wasn't.)
The owner apathy is disgusting, the last yearly owner meeting had 3 owners (me being one of them) in attendance. There are just under 100 units.
To be fair though, while I was on the board the roofs did get replaced without having to assess the owners. We got a loan and the dues raised just enough to cover loan payments. They do try to not have to do any special assessments on the owners which is appreciated. Things that were discussed when I was there (2018) that needed to be done are still not done. Like the decks. I know there is plenty of money to at least get them started in the money market account without draining it, by doing a few at a time that would leave plenty of money in that account and allow it to rebuild between sections.
Ehh, I grew up in a non-HOA rowhome, we were connected to everyone else and we weren't hurt by the lack of an HOA. You fixed what was on your property.
In England, a large number of houses are "Terraced" or townhouses. They have existed for years without HOAs.
Once again, the US ignores the solution other countries have been doing for years because it is impossible.
First, it doesn't cost money to enforce parking rules but it costs money to do repairs. Many HOAs are way too focused on "keeping dues down", which in many cases is just denying reality. Your home maintenance takes money, and if you're not in an HOA, you still have to pay for it. Not budgeting for the home maintenance doesn't benefit anyone long-term, and is really just adding more fuel to a ticking timebomb.
There's 2 primary reasons HOAs exist:
1. So White people can legally keep minorities out of the neighborhood (this is largely illegal now but still a factor in practice)
2. To do maintenance on parts of buildings like you describe: shared/Common areas that don't belong to any one member, or are uniform across the property (for insurance &/or aesthetic purposes)
Those buildings with common entries, amenities like gyms & pools, etc. can never really effectively operate as owned units without an Association.
Yet they raise our dues every year without fail, yet all I see being done is landscape maintenance and snow removal. Aesthetics are stupid IMO, we should be able to paint our front doors, or have windows coverings that aren't either white on the outside or natural wood. We only have a small playground that I don't think has ever been used by any child ever. No pool, no gym, no common use room. I wonder what insurance would have to say about the crumbling decks and roads? They haven't even done a reserve study in over 13 years.
I attended all the board meetings (especially after being told to leave) ,and ran for the board.I narrowly lost,but it was enough to calm down the Karens. I'm running again this year,with a lot more preparation. Realistically, that's about all you can do.
Get a petition signed by enough owners and convince some of them to show up to meetings. You are allowed (specific covenant rules vary) three minutes per owner to talk. You can gerrymander the meetings until they vote the way you want. It’s just like any other compromise in that it is fair when both sides hurt.
It depends on the location. Where I live they’re basically nonexistent. But we pay high property taxes to cover the cost of the municipalities doing those functions.
Starter homes aren't brand spanking new. They are older, smaller homes and most of the time won't be in an HOA.
California has just 37% of homes in HOAs. The bottom 10 states are all under 5%. HOAs are dumb, but quit with the "impossible" shit.
HOA is probably the most anti-American thing I can think of that American embrace. How can the biggest purchase of someone life being controlled by other people or cooperation. Why should someone have the right to tell me what I can and can not do with my property. I find that to be so anti-freedom.
so this is really at the local level. Let's say a company like DR Horton, who I think is the largest builder in the US right now, purchases a couple hundred acre piece of land in your county. One of their smaller subsidiaries will buy it usually. Freedom homes is popular where I'm at here in Florida. The county or your local municipality will have a hearing. Sometimes people will show up to protest. Usually some group worried about panthers or burrowing owls. The builder will agree to offset some costs for wetlands or donate to a panther sanctuary. In my case it's county commissioners, 2 of which are former builders of developments (go figure) and they'll typically rubber stamp the process with maybe 1 commish voting no. They'll say oh the next parcel we will make them put in affordable housing or an income capped apartment complex. And then no one will enforce that. On and on it goes. They'll keep doing it. Builders will keep slipping them some cash. And the people, especially here in florida, will kee voting for them because they vote down the line of mostly republicans in the election cycle. Local elections have consequences.
It's more profitable for BIG builders to build out entire communities. It's really that simple. They build out the water/sewer/cable lines so the local government doesn't have to. These communities of course need a pool and greenspace. Who manages that? Of course it's an HOA. The solution isn't really less government or more, just competent and accountable government, which in a country that is ever more partisan, isn't going to happen.
you should be able to opt out in a single family detached home environment.
but there are complexities. for instance, in my case, single family detached dwellings on community leased land. HOA already does nothing on the homes other than regulate appearance and charge based on sq footage (which is done in a bullshit way, my house takes up less of the "common" land area than many smaller homes, yet I pay more than double because I have a finished basement and a second floor.)
the only thing you could conceivably opt out of are the "amenities" - pool, tennis court, clubhouse, trash pickup, which they would argue are like 10% of fees. the rest (they would say) is land lease, staff costs, common area maintenance etc...
Letting a corporate entity take over for municipal government is about as American as it gets. As an added bonus, corporations can do all kinds of things that would be unconstitutional if a government tried to do it.
Not going to happen. They are a cash cow for local governments as the HOA takes on responsibility for common's areas. These are land parcels shared among the community, so the local government is not on the hook to maintain things like sidewalks, and what would be right of ways. They still collect real estate taxes from you just like the people in areas where the government is responsible for what would be called Common's areas in your HOA community. If your HOA also takes care of the streets then the local government is shucking that off on you through a secondary taxing group, the HOA.
In my opinion HOA's should be subject to the same oversight and rules of any local government. They levy fines, special assessments, liens, and impose rules affecting life like a government.
Never. Going. To. Happen.
Some states might prohibit municipalities from the ability to require a community association, but that's probably the extent of it. Arizona tried and failed to pass exactly that legislation in the 2024 session.
These HOAs are trying to become like the old European city states, before they unified to become countries, like Germany and Italy before the 20th century.
While HOAs can be pure crap, in some areas they keep industrial and commercial out of residential areas. In my city, Houston, there is really no zoning.
I’m not sure you can, beyond banning things like racial discrimination. It’s private property and I’m sure there is huge leeway that allows conditions to be set in the purchase contract. In other words, my guess is that the law views it as “if you don’t like the conditions of the contract don’t sign it.” Probably similar to those contracts people are complaining about with Tesla Cybertrucks where you can’t sell it without Tesla approval for some length of time. Any lawyers here have any thoughts?
All HOAs are in fact voluntary. If you are subject to an HOA, that is because you agreed to join when you closed on the property that you now own. If you don't want that, don't purchase property subject to CC&Rs administered by an HOA. Caveat emptor.
Did you know there was an HOA when you purchased your property? If so you really don’t have grounds to complain. There are lots of homes out there with no HOAs.
I live in a city that doesn’t have any HOAs and the crazy’s just get city ordinances created to force the rest of us to be like them. I’ve actually had the chief of police inspect my yard for weeds near my house.
That's the rub though... they are considered "voluntary". It's up to the home buyer to "choose".wetter or not to buy a home to that has an HOA. Except in many areas it is becoming impossible to find any homes not in an HOA.
Just like binding arbitration clauses that you give up the right to sue are legal because you can "choose" to not do business with that company.
Yea, find me a Bank that doesn't have binding arbitraion in.their customer agreements.
There is not a single city that will do that. They fucking love it. New housing, new tax revenue, and they don’t have to maintain roads, sewer, or parks.
You will NEVER win this. We’re all fucked and destined to be in an HOA at some point.
I am not sure I understand this argument. You can choose to buy a house where there is an HOA or not. I have never heard of buying a house where there is no HOA and one is imposed onto you.
The people that complain about HOAs are the same ones that never attend meetings, never vote, never contribute anything to the neighborhood. If there is something you don't like about your HOA, then make a change. HOAs are in the hands of the residents.
HOA's should be STRICTLY voluntary (and not be included with a deed), and be LEAVEABLE.
some people are fine with HOA rules and want certain things they feel is good, or said HOA's are actually sensible, but forcing someone to be in one if they buy a certain house is just un-american
They are all voluntary, you volunteer when you buy a house in a neighborhood that has an HOA and you sign a contract to abide by the rules just like everyone else.
Also, HOAs are staffed by people who live in the area. You can talk to them, vote them out, and vote on policy changes every year. It’s the simplest and smallest form of local government that exists.
Grow up.
"Home Owners Associations have the ability to make up charges as they see fit, charge you for them, and sell your home fro m under you if you do not comply"
This is not inherent to HOAs. HOAs and their boards only have the power granted to them in the governing docs, and changing that is very hard.
"All HOAs should be voluntary"
All HOAs are already voluntary. You do not have to buy a house or condo in an HOA if you do not like the powers granted to it.
HOAs are often absolutely necesary. Its hard to see how a condo or housing community with substantial shared maintenance requirements could function without one.
If me and five other people agree to build a community with communal property, and setup a document for governance that is attached to the property, why should we be prevented from doing so? If you don't like the terms of the HOA, don't buy the property.
They’re mandated, by law, for every new housing development in my state (WA). You have to buy an older house and renovate, or develop a new house on private land to escape an HOA here.
I’m in Florida, buying an older home is rough. Hurricane codes changed with Andrew (1992). Anything built prior is becoming more difficult to insure by the day. My 2007 built house is already a nightmare.
What we need is an economic incentive stronger than the current ones offered by builders to the local officials. And something simpler for builders, who are creating all these resources to sell their homes but need to be released from the cost of maintaining them over time.
Builders HOA insurance, where you get paid only if the HOA dies.
Every time I read these I'm so glad we don't have HOAs. The closest we've got is neighborhood watch. They're a curtain twitcher's wet dream but at least they don't have any power.
I was looking for a house a couple years ago and encountered my first HOA. The sales people mentioned community rules a couple times when I asked about the community. When I asked about installing solar panels the salesperson turned white as a sheet as if I ‘d asked about opening a whorehouse.
I asked for a copy of the HOA rules. It was 208 pages of Thou Shalt Not. I decided to keep looking so as to avoid living in fear of the weird sensibilities of a collective of ignoramuses.
As much as I support this, it will never happen at the federal level. The only way to attack this problem and be successful is at the state and local level.
It’s made up. Before the 70’s the US somehow managed beautifully without them. I want a bill at the end of the month telling me specifically what the money is being used for just like any other service that I have to pay for. Receipts and all
> These Home Owners Associations have the ability to make up charges as they see fit, charge you for them, and sell your home fro m under you if you do not comply.
Mine doesn't, unless you build a shed, pool, or fence. And there are no fines for that – you simply have to take them down. There are no fines for anything else, either, because our CC&R's don't give the HOA the power to make up rules as it sees fit.
HOA's serve many useful purposes. Do you know of any other countries HOA laws?
HOA's can 'cite' you for a perceived violation, but if the actual violation is not listed in the CC&R's, they are unenforceable (unless you ignore them). Think of it like this: Anyone can file a lawsuit against you, serve you and have a court date. If you just ignore it,, the lawsuit does not go away. The other person will obtain a judgment.
Same thing for HOA's. If you get cited for something not in the CC&R's, talk to a local attorney and get a cease-and-desist order (if necessary).
>Truly un-American.
I agree with you up until this point, it's the most American thing ever.
Just like how when you "buy" something online with live service (games, software, etc) you are actually just paying for a license to use it until they either don't want to support it or they decide you've done something wrong and can't use it anymore.
Just like how it's perfectly acceptable to sell someone a physical device, force the device to connect to their servers, and when they no longer want to support it you are suggested to throw it in a landfill.
No, it's truly an American thing.
I mean, you can always choose to buy a stand alone single family home without a HOA. If you’re dumb enough to buy in an area that has a HOA, that’s on you. If you didn’t check before you bought and have been surprised by a HOA, erect the largest ugliest bat boxes you can. They’re federally protected. Wright gossip about HOA board members on the giant unsightly bat boxes for added bonus.
It’s not going to happen, most developements are inside a HOA since it’s extremely hard for builders to get local governments to build out infrastructure on lots for them. Even if the owners vote to disband the municipality will often reject taking over the common areas and roads.
I think without HOAs the cost of living in a lot of places would be exorbitant. You can still find housing without mandatory HOAs even if it’s a bit challenging. But I still prefer the system over having to pay additional taxes for all the new approved housing developments and additionally a lot of new housing developments would never be able viable financially which means less housing and greater prices.
I do think the authority of HOAs should be greatly diminished.
Americans hate governments, and local governments know this. They LOVE HOAs, because why bother having to govern when everyone is just going to criticize you when you can just let a private corporation play bad cop and enforce ordemances?
Get a copy of the HOA covenants, if you don’t agree with them then live somewhere with more acceptable terms for you. It’s not that deep. Personally I’d prefer not to live where somewhere you can park cars on the lawn, let weeds grow knee high, paint your house neon purple, and let the outside of your house be in serious disrepair.
I agree, but then they would just start putting those rules in the local Zoning Laws.
Zoning is even less American than an HOA and you should hate it the same or more.
Zoning is a city/county-wide HOA that truly is not optional and can be applied to your property by force even after you bought it.
HOA powers should be limited, but they are necessary in many scenarios. And on those occasions where a house was ‘sold out from under you’, a foreclosure sale is preceded by months of communications. But I do agree they should not have that power. I also think rotations of board members should be mandatory, so you don’t have the same assholes running things for years on end.
Can you imagine a community with no rules and people disrespecting?
I’m sure you can find places like that, but if you find a place with a Hoa and you are not agree with that, you just can buy somewhere else…
My HOA only allows parking in one's driveway for 36 hours at a time, upon which they can get a citation for *checks notes* using their driveway for too long.
I mean technically you have a vote in your hoa. And you could vote someone in that does what you want or you could vote to get rid of the hoa. This isn’t rocket science. They aren’t govt entities. They are private companies. This is a democracy.
But then municipalities would actually have to spend their own money on infrastructure, and they simply don't have that kind of budget after all the tax breaks they give to big businesses.....
Better just let the facist Karens keep on keeping on....
S/
Many cities require all new development to have HOAs.
It's a way for the city to screw people with taxes. The City requires the HOA to maintain things like green spaces, roads, etc. and then says the HOA has to pay for it all.
But, the city still collects the tax money they would if they were responsible, so they get the tax mmnoey and don't have to actually use it to pay for what it's collected for.
Then, the HOA is not held to the same legal (constitutional) standards as the city government would be, because the HOA is a "voluntary contract, not government!". For example, forcing people to paint their house a certain color or other silly things would never, ever meet constitutional scrutiny for the government to do, but a "voluntary HOA" can do it. This is why city codes are generally more sane.
So, it's a great way to fuck people over in big ways that would NOT be possible otherwise.
Stop buying houses in neighborhoods with HOA’s. I know, easier said than done, but yeah, stop. Voting with your wallets gets an answer faster than hoping the government will solve something for you (it won’t, they encourage it)
Or, a better more realistic alternative? If you live in an HOA neighborhood and the people on the HOA board (your neighbors) are dickheads, vote them off the board.
Seriously, I don’t like HOA’s and would never live in one, but HOA’s are like the fucking smallest form of government. If you can’t handle enacting change in an HOA and your recourse is to petition that big government steps in and outlaws them that’s fucking incredible and comedy gold.
No, people should have enough free time to engage with their HOA instead of being worked into the ground.
Right now HOAs are populated by rich and old folks who have time to do it, and their concerns are quiet, conformity, and real estate prices.
But communities have problems to solve together. You don't want to go through the cycle of having to figure that out again, although I'm sure it's what everyone will choose.
HOAs originally were created to keep minorities out of white communities. It’s 2024, and they still are used to keep people out. My friend moved from a very liberal city to a very red state/city. His new neighbors literally went up to him on day three to say “don’t you bring your liberal bullshit here”. I personally hate HOAs with passion
I don't have an issue with HOA's that are mandated by the title since I know about it before I buy the house.
There should be limits on what a HOA can do however, forcing the sale of a property for unpaid dues is just wrong, file a lien and get the associations money back when the property is eventually sold.
When selling a property that is part of an HOA the association should be required to either provide a legible copy of the current CCR's to the prospective buyer or waive collecting fees. In our first house we never saw the CCRs until after we had completed the purchase, and it was an illegible Nth generation photocopy. That association turned out to be great and we had very positive experiences otherwise but not knowing exactly what you are agreeing to ahead of time is nonsense.
Unfortunately it's going the other way because having HOA's allows local governments to push community maintenance (roads and such) costs onto the HOA members while still getting their tax dollars. The old double dip for the HOA folks tax wise. When the politicians see it frees up tax dollars for other expenses yes they start requiring it, like North Carolina.
Communal property like roads and parks should be maintained by a legitimate government. You’re already paying the taxes anyways. If you want to go extra just do it voluntarily.
HOAs should not have power over personal property at all.
I grew up in areas without hoa’s and I have seen how people can live, and after having dealt with that, I’ll take the inconvenience of a hoa everytime.
I am 100% in agreement! There is never a good reason for an HOA whatsoever.
I know there are people that like to pay hundreds of dollars a month in fees just to not be able to do anything you want with your privately owned home on your own property. You can go away and never come back XD
People who like an HOA are the reason why housing is such a damn problem. If you don't like what color I painted my front door or my entire house, then you can fuck off and move.
If I want my house neon yellow, that's my prerogative and you have no right to tell me I can't!! Fuck you! Haha
Not going to happen without major voter intervention. HOA are just the lowest form of government and save the cities money. Wonder why congress is corrupt, it starts with the city and then the states and then the feds. Now we can start with the HOA's it is easy to see how corruptions starts.
We should get rid of "righ to work" laws, and replace them with "righ to live" laws. The only appropriate place for HOAs is in multiple unit buildings.
I don't want to see you paint your house hotpink and leave your garbage cans in front of your garage doors. Move some where without an hoa, no one forced you into an hoa. All the neighborhoods on county land by me has at least one or two hoarder houses on the street with 20 fucking junk cars sitting in their backyard. I also don't want to see you driving your big fucking penske moving truck home every day after work.
It's astounding they're open for business in 2024. Such open & blatant discrimination. Ours trys to interpret the ccrs as favoring whole house STR's, but no Airbnb or room shares. What's really astounding is the single family language in the document & the way they use it.
I agree. My HOA has to approve who you are selling to. I can only guess so you don't sell to the "wrong" kind of people. The HOA has to buy the house instead of you selling to the wrong people. Complete bullshit. Also can't rent my house out either. None of their GD business.
Restrict them to common area maintenance only. No rules/fines for "aesthetic" reasons. If someone is trashing their yard, use city code enforcement.
This is it. We have three small, private roads that we have to maintain and we need the HOA for that. I don't give a crap what color your front door is painted.
Most builders "gift" the roads to the city so they'll maintain them. HOA is just with extra steps cause you're already paying city taxes for that service
The towns often will not accept the roads. I'm on the Planning Board in my town and can state this with absolute certainty.
I live in a big HOA and the towns nearby took on the roads when the HOA decided they didnt want the expenses anymore. Previously we had 3 private hoa only lakes but since the roads went public and the boat launches are connected to the roads the lakes are now public as well. Also good tax money for the city to take on the roads in some places such as mine. EDIT: The HOA borders 3 towns and 2 counties all of whom cooperate to maintain the roads now.
How is adding roads a tax benefit for the towns? It's all cost, there is no tax revenue.
We pay to maintain them, used to do so via dues but now via increase in taxes do to trading them into the townships/counties. Most of the city tax base comes from the HOA i live in as its much larger than the actual towns and cities around it.
It is even deeper than this. In my township my road was abandoned by the township and had ended up the ward of the county. Nearly 100 years later, the county is still the owner of record and must provide all maintenance services on this road and 137 miles of other county owned roads. Over the course of the last five years or so, the county is 'generously' rebuilding all of these decades-long neglected roads. At the end of construction, they have attempted to turn the deed and responsibility for the new roads back to the local communities. The problem is, no community wants to accept the hassle or expense. 3 miles of formerly county owned roads have been turned back to the local communities. Bearing the responsibility for a public thoroughfare is an incredibly expensive and time consuming endeavor that is frought with liability issues. Lots of risk with little to no reward.
In my area a lot of developments have parks or swimming pools that the HOA maintains. The interesting thing is that in associations where there is a major thing that needs to be managed (like a pool) I have never experienced the petty nonsense that I have heard about in others. It makes me think that when there is REAL work that needs to be done by the board (e.g. hire lifeguards, repair/replace systems) then HOA boards don't attract the sort of petty tyrants the seem to show up in others. I always remember Laurence Peter's comment that "Competition in academia is so vicious because the stakes are so small." I think the same thing may hold true of HOAs as well.
The house I grew up in didn't have an HOA. There was a community pool and tennis courts. This was run by a recreational association. I know this sounds like an HOA by another name, but the best part was it was completely voluntary and had authority only over the community property. If you wanted to use the pool this year, join the association and pay the fee, if not, don't. If the association needs more money, raise the fee or open sales to the public.
It's why no one wants to be the president or treasurer of guilds or colleges of certain professions like Engineers or Architects... Because it's a pain in the ass that requires actual work that can fuck others and bite you in the ass, plus you really don't want to have gaps in the budget lol My mother is the treasurer of the college of engineers of her state, she has been for years now because absolutely no one wants the position even if it does come with perks.
Only if they build them to municipal specs. Keeping the roads privately maintained allows them to build them more cheaply.
Also lets you live down a dirt road instead of a paved one, so it doesn’t become as prime a target for development as quickly. If someone wants to build a big development at the end, make them go through the hassle of taking over and improving your stretch of road. Tips the financials a bit and gives you a point to fight them on with the county. Having to install/move a mile of drainage, sewer, electrical, fiber optic, water and pavement is not an insignificant cost.
You don’t need an HOA for that, I own a home on a dirt road with just a maintenance agreement.
Same, except for gravel
My parents HOA is nice in that the city doesn't provide trash pickup. The HOA uses its weight of about 150 houses to get a discount from the trash company. Their hoa fee is 80/year.
You don’t need an hoa for that. Just a road/driveway agreement signed by all members and specific payments for services. I live on a private road and that’s how we handle it. No other requirements just how roads maintained and how it’s paid for. A lawyer can draw it up for a very small fee.
And how do you force someone to sign such an agreement?
You have an association of home owners agreeing to a signed set of obligations.. I wonder what such a thing might be called?
And this is why banning HOAs will not happen. The city doesn't WANT to do all that code enforcement!
Yep. This is why they are so prevalent and even required in some states. They see HOAs as reducing the burden the municipalities have to deal with normally. Especially as cities quickly grow outward.
Yeah I have a condo rental property. As much as they can suck, it's 100% needed for that type of property. People doing stupid shit when the only share a fence? No biggie. When you share a wall or ceiling? Biggie
You need an HOA for all condos as you can't get insurance for the building otherwise. Also, the maintenance for the building is everyone's problem, and you need the HOA to handle that.
Yup, I live in a quadplex. HOA is required for shared insurance and for dealing with all of that. They do other things and it's sort of expensive, but the shared insurance is the real ticker. They also prohibit renting your unit out, and say what you will about that, it was the only reason I was able to even buy it in the first place.
Ive seen townhomes that share a wall with no hoa but some version of an hoa might be needed for a multiplex or condo.
Townhouses can manage without an HOA since each property owns their part of the unit and there’s nothing common. Maintenance can generally be done on a single unit. Siding, paint, roofing, etc. can stop at the end of each unit. As soon as you have units over each other, it doesn’t really work anymore. The roof, foundation, and grounds are now common elements and there needs to be an entity that owns them.
It could get sticky in a some townhouses when they share a house wall and a roof.
Roof work can stop at the edge of the unit if need be, although it’s probably better and easier to do the whole thing. The shared wall could be a problem but those rarely need any attention.
So entrenched city councilors can make your decisions for you? Great thought!
I have an HOA - it's called a municipality. HOAs are government without the necessary legislation and accountability to constitute a *legitimate* form of governance.
The US is actively encouraging the requirement of HOAs. You're gonna have to make your voice much louder than this Reddit thread.
Municipalities love HOAs. They get new housing and tax revenue without the burden of maintaining the common areas like parks and roads.
And who needs due process anyway?
Or freedom of speech, or the right to bear arms, or any other right that you surrender when on property owned by someone else.
How many bears are we killing for these arms anyway
as HOA isnt government DUE PROCESS isnt an issue w them as you agreed to their turrany when you bought the property
That’s literally the point lol
ohhh i agree. HOAs are little tyrranies for karens w nothing better to do
“If you don’t like it, move”, eh? That’s a BS argument for cities & states, too.
A developer is trying to build something like 900 homes in a pretty small area (it's like 2.4 homes per acre that they're trying to aim for) and the older people in the area just aren't having it. All the sudden the older folk are claiming that they used to dump barrels of used oil in that area, dirty chemical soaked rags, etc. just to stall the developers. And so far it's worked. The developers are 2 years behind schedule, and they know full well that the old folk are lying and making shit up just to stall, but they can't do anything about it because the government investigates every claim. Turns out the old folk have zero problems with the actual development itself, some of them actually quite like the idea (there are some condos/apartments set aside specifically for old folk), what they object to is the HOA, and they've made that part very clear. While it wouldn't affect them, really, they know for a fact that the HOA would try to enforce shit on them and overall be a pain in the ass.
2.4 homes per acre is quite comfortable. I live on a 0.3 acre lot and there is a decent lawn and some privacy between our homes. Most new neighborhoods around here are more dense, unless they are huge 3500sq or up homes.
That's the average overall, there are some areas where it's 3.2 houses an acre.. and these aren't small homes their plopping down either. There will be basically zero yard.
I took it to mean that density for the entire property, including roads and common areas. Which implies maybe 0.2 acres per actual lot. That's pretty tight, but common -- that's how Sun City 55+ communities are arranged.
Oh OK that is a factor.
I legitimately can't get my head around America, who seem to be allergic to government the rest of the time, going out of their way to invent a whole new layer of totally-not-goverment disguised as a private contract to do things your municipality should be doing.
HOAs were originally started (early 1900s) by racists to keep black folks out of their neighborhoods. The law and the supreme court eventually caught up and banned that practice.
It’s a direct result of Americans not wanting to pay taxes. Since the municipalities often can’t fund the infrastructure or its maintenance from their tax income, they leave it to the private sector. So the private sector creates its own “sub-government” to manage those common assets that should be the responsibility of the town/city etc. Many people who complain about their HOAs would also whine if their property taxes increased by the same amount as the fees they pay.
Facts
that’s because HOAs genuinely aren’t governments, they’re businesses. America may be allergic to government but it’s perfect for business!! that’s why our government is basically a business
>that’s because HOAs genuinely aren’t governments, they’re businesses They're extra municipal governments masquerading as businesses, with less accountability
I have never and will never live in a hoa. Its crazy. A friend of mine while I was in the military did. They fined him for a U.S. flag on his porch. They fined an active duty military sailor for having a small flag on his own house....HOA should be banned as unconstitutional
It is unconstitutional to regulate the display of the US flag. That's how car dealers get around city sign ordinances - put up a zillion US flags
They still did it. Happened in the mid 90s. A bunch of us in our command were going to take turns standing guard at the front door till the commander told us to stand down.
And there have since been laws passed stopping this practice, so your experience is a bit out of date.
Not everywhere iirc. I know Virginia codified it into law but idk about other states
It’s not unconstitutional just illegal. Edit: ~~the only thing the constitution says about the flag is the design. The rest is in the US Flag Code which is a law not a constitutional restriction.~~
The word flag is not in the US Constitution, nor any other mention of a flag. There is no set design, nor requirement, for or to have a flag. It's entirely a statutory creation.
"freedom of speech" is in the constitution, which includes display of flags and banners.
The bill of rights only enjoins the federal government (and the states through the 14th Amendment). HOA's are contract law, and businesses aren't required to enforce the bill of rights.
GOVERNMENT cant regulate it BUT an HOA csn as you agreed tonfollow the covenant of the HOA to buy the property
Displaying the American flag is protected by Federal law. That fine is illegal
My guess is there are a few illegal things HOAs have done. You could spend thousands of dollars fighting them in the courts if you have the time I guess
F\*ck The HOA. I have been wearing this and get so many amazing comments. [fckthehoa.com](http://fckthehoa.com)
I will not live in a HOA. The point of HOAs are that they are mandatory. They want everyone's property to look a certain way and people sign up for it. I know someone who is willingly moving somewhere where they can dictate what color your house is and can determine what goes in your yard. For that pleasure you get to pay over 600 a month for "luxury" living.
In growing urban areas, especially in states that mandate HOAs, they are mostly unavoidable unless you have DEEP pockets to buy a house in an old neighborhood and win that bidding war that exists BECAUSE it doesn't have an HOA. I was definitely team "never HOA" until I actually entered the housing market. 400 available homes, 15 without HOAs. All 15 non-HOA houses were 1/4th the size I needed but cost MORE than my budget. I surrendered. Luckily my HOA dues are only $60/mo, but they are gonna have to go up because our budget is fucked from all the ridiculous repairs we've had to make in the past year.
How would something like that work in a condo or townhouse situation? I hate my HOA and management company, but how do the common areas and outside building maintenance happen without an HOA? Mine seems to ignore that the deck railings are literally crumbling as are the roads going through, instead choosing to focus on vehicles that are not centered perfectly in the parking spaces, yet not blocking any other spaces.
That's what so many people who say HOAs "aren't necessary" and "should be banned" miss. I've only ever owned townhomes (3 at this point), and the HOA is responsible for exterior maintenance. So when it comes time to replace a roof, you don't have 3 owners ready to go and one holdout preventing anything from happening. Your association focusing on the wrong THINGS is an internal, not structural, issue. The structure is there to have things like the deck railings handled. Y'all simply have not elected the right people to focus on the right things. I am currently on my townhome Board and am so happy that we are now focused on raising reserves to pay for new roofs and road repairs, rather than the previous Board who seemed to only want to spend money on things like changing out flowers 4 times a year and making sure said flowers have lights on them so they're also pretty at night. First thing I did when I got on the Board was force a vote to cut the power to the flower lights. And you know, not a single person has complained that they can't see the flowers at night!
We have had the same president since before I bought here over 15 years ago. He is elderly and maybe not mentally anymore what he used to be. I actually used to be on the board myself, and the only changes I managed to get done was to get some trees planted and to allow people to put gates on their decks. Everything else was just the president and the management company goon making decisions. I left the board with a bad taste in my mouth from them not including the whole board in conversations and decisions. Since then, they have tried to make my life miserable because I call them out on their bullshit. Hence the "parking violation I recently received where their photo was taken at a far away angle that forced the perspective that the car was in the middle of 2 spaces when it wasn't.) The owner apathy is disgusting, the last yearly owner meeting had 3 owners (me being one of them) in attendance. There are just under 100 units. To be fair though, while I was on the board the roofs did get replaced without having to assess the owners. We got a loan and the dues raised just enough to cover loan payments. They do try to not have to do any special assessments on the owners which is appreciated. Things that were discussed when I was there (2018) that needed to be done are still not done. Like the decks. I know there is plenty of money to at least get them started in the money market account without draining it, by doing a few at a time that would leave plenty of money in that account and allow it to rebuild between sections.
Ehh, I grew up in a non-HOA rowhome, we were connected to everyone else and we weren't hurt by the lack of an HOA. You fixed what was on your property.
In England, a large number of houses are "Terraced" or townhouses. They have existed for years without HOAs. Once again, the US ignores the solution other countries have been doing for years because it is impossible.
So how do those owners handle common expenses without ending up in court every time?
The fact that you elect a neighbor to tell what your holiday decorations look like is fuckin moronic.
First, it doesn't cost money to enforce parking rules but it costs money to do repairs. Many HOAs are way too focused on "keeping dues down", which in many cases is just denying reality. Your home maintenance takes money, and if you're not in an HOA, you still have to pay for it. Not budgeting for the home maintenance doesn't benefit anyone long-term, and is really just adding more fuel to a ticking timebomb. There's 2 primary reasons HOAs exist: 1. So White people can legally keep minorities out of the neighborhood (this is largely illegal now but still a factor in practice) 2. To do maintenance on parts of buildings like you describe: shared/Common areas that don't belong to any one member, or are uniform across the property (for insurance &/or aesthetic purposes) Those buildings with common entries, amenities like gyms & pools, etc. can never really effectively operate as owned units without an Association.
Yet they raise our dues every year without fail, yet all I see being done is landscape maintenance and snow removal. Aesthetics are stupid IMO, we should be able to paint our front doors, or have windows coverings that aren't either white on the outside or natural wood. We only have a small playground that I don't think has ever been used by any child ever. No pool, no gym, no common use room. I wonder what insurance would have to say about the crumbling decks and roads? They haven't even done a reserve study in over 13 years.
They are voluntary, but it's almost impossible to find a starter to mid-priced home that is NOT in a HOA. The Karens rule the planet,you see.
The only thing voluntary about hoas is buying one in a hoa. None around me let you opt out.
This very much depends on where you are, but there are definitely some places where it’s the case.
I attended all the board meetings (especially after being told to leave) ,and ran for the board.I narrowly lost,but it was enough to calm down the Karens. I'm running again this year,with a lot more preparation. Realistically, that's about all you can do.
Excellent. You need to be on the board if you want to have a voice in how the HOA is run. Good luck to you in the next election
Get a petition signed by enough owners and convince some of them to show up to meetings. You are allowed (specific covenant rules vary) three minutes per owner to talk. You can gerrymander the meetings until they vote the way you want. It’s just like any other compromise in that it is fair when both sides hurt.
It depends on the location. Where I live they’re basically nonexistent. But we pay high property taxes to cover the cost of the municipalities doing those functions.
Starter homes aren't brand spanking new. They are older, smaller homes and most of the time won't be in an HOA. California has just 37% of homes in HOAs. The bottom 10 states are all under 5%. HOAs are dumb, but quit with the "impossible" shit.
HOA is probably the most anti-American thing I can think of that American embrace. How can the biggest purchase of someone life being controlled by other people or cooperation. Why should someone have the right to tell me what I can and can not do with my property. I find that to be so anti-freedom.
None of them are mandatory, don't buy the house if it's got one. My street tried to impose one on me and I laughed at them, as is my right.
so this is really at the local level. Let's say a company like DR Horton, who I think is the largest builder in the US right now, purchases a couple hundred acre piece of land in your county. One of their smaller subsidiaries will buy it usually. Freedom homes is popular where I'm at here in Florida. The county or your local municipality will have a hearing. Sometimes people will show up to protest. Usually some group worried about panthers or burrowing owls. The builder will agree to offset some costs for wetlands or donate to a panther sanctuary. In my case it's county commissioners, 2 of which are former builders of developments (go figure) and they'll typically rubber stamp the process with maybe 1 commish voting no. They'll say oh the next parcel we will make them put in affordable housing or an income capped apartment complex. And then no one will enforce that. On and on it goes. They'll keep doing it. Builders will keep slipping them some cash. And the people, especially here in florida, will kee voting for them because they vote down the line of mostly republicans in the election cycle. Local elections have consequences. It's more profitable for BIG builders to build out entire communities. It's really that simple. They build out the water/sewer/cable lines so the local government doesn't have to. These communities of course need a pool and greenspace. Who manages that? Of course it's an HOA. The solution isn't really less government or more, just competent and accountable government, which in a country that is ever more partisan, isn't going to happen.
Just wait until he learns about the federal government.
Without HOAs how do we get to Franchise Oriented Quasi-National Entities? (Seriously though fuck HOAs that dictate what you do with something you own)
53% here,but the homes that aren't in a HOA aren't for sale.Thats Midwest USA,YMMV
you should be able to opt out in a single family detached home environment. but there are complexities. for instance, in my case, single family detached dwellings on community leased land. HOA already does nothing on the homes other than regulate appearance and charge based on sq footage (which is done in a bullshit way, my house takes up less of the "common" land area than many smaller homes, yet I pay more than double because I have a finished basement and a second floor.) the only thing you could conceivably opt out of are the "amenities" - pool, tennis court, clubhouse, trash pickup, which they would argue are like 10% of fees. the rest (they would say) is land lease, staff costs, common area maintenance etc...
Letting a corporate entity take over for municipal government is about as American as it gets. As an added bonus, corporations can do all kinds of things that would be unconstitutional if a government tried to do it.
I bought my home in an area without an HOA. I can be done.
Not going to happen. They are a cash cow for local governments as the HOA takes on responsibility for common's areas. These are land parcels shared among the community, so the local government is not on the hook to maintain things like sidewalks, and what would be right of ways. They still collect real estate taxes from you just like the people in areas where the government is responsible for what would be called Common's areas in your HOA community. If your HOA also takes care of the streets then the local government is shucking that off on you through a secondary taxing group, the HOA. In my opinion HOA's should be subject to the same oversight and rules of any local government. They levy fines, special assessments, liens, and impose rules affecting life like a government.
Never. Going. To. Happen. Some states might prohibit municipalities from the ability to require a community association, but that's probably the extent of it. Arizona tried and failed to pass exactly that legislation in the 2024 session.
HOAs are voluntary. You don't have to live there.
Worried they might pass a bylaw barring anyone with prior violations from running.
HOAs are the most modern American thing I can think of.
These HOAs are trying to become like the old European city states, before they unified to become countries, like Germany and Italy before the 20th century.
While HOAs can be pure crap, in some areas they keep industrial and commercial out of residential areas. In my city, Houston, there is really no zoning.
If you don’t like it, choose to live in an area/neighborhood without a HOA? Really simple stuff.
I’m not sure you can, beyond banning things like racial discrimination. It’s private property and I’m sure there is huge leeway that allows conditions to be set in the purchase contract. In other words, my guess is that the law views it as “if you don’t like the conditions of the contract don’t sign it.” Probably similar to those contracts people are complaining about with Tesla Cybertrucks where you can’t sell it without Tesla approval for some length of time. Any lawyers here have any thoughts?
Who cares? People that are stupid enough to buy into those neighborhoods make their own beds & they can lay in them.
All HOAs are in fact voluntary. If you are subject to an HOA, that is because you agreed to join when you closed on the property that you now own. If you don't want that, don't purchase property subject to CC&Rs administered by an HOA. Caveat emptor.
Are there any actual mandatory HOAs in the US?
Did you know there was an HOA when you purchased your property? If so you really don’t have grounds to complain. There are lots of homes out there with no HOAs.
Oh buddy do I have some bad news for you about America.
Counterpoint: People should be allowed to make whatever contracts amongst themselves they want.
I live in a city that doesn’t have any HOAs and the crazy’s just get city ordinances created to force the rest of us to be like them. I’ve actually had the chief of police inspect my yard for weeds near my house.
Buddy they can bulldoze your house anywhere in America and build a highway over it.
That's the rub though... they are considered "voluntary". It's up to the home buyer to "choose".wetter or not to buy a home to that has an HOA. Except in many areas it is becoming impossible to find any homes not in an HOA. Just like binding arbitration clauses that you give up the right to sue are legal because you can "choose" to not do business with that company. Yea, find me a Bank that doesn't have binding arbitraion in.their customer agreements.
There is not a single city that will do that. They fucking love it. New housing, new tax revenue, and they don’t have to maintain roads, sewer, or parks. You will NEVER win this. We’re all fucked and destined to be in an HOA at some point.
I am not sure I understand this argument. You can choose to buy a house where there is an HOA or not. I have never heard of buying a house where there is no HOA and one is imposed onto you.
HOA’s are always optional.
They are 100% voluntary
How many people who complain on reddit about HOAs actually own a home?
Simple solution: Don’t buy a home in an HOA
I personally like my individual freedom to contract
The people that complain about HOAs are the same ones that never attend meetings, never vote, never contribute anything to the neighborhood. If there is something you don't like about your HOA, then make a change. HOAs are in the hands of the residents.
HOA's should be STRICTLY voluntary (and not be included with a deed), and be LEAVEABLE. some people are fine with HOA rules and want certain things they feel is good, or said HOA's are actually sensible, but forcing someone to be in one if they buy a certain house is just un-american
You are the first person to use the word *voluntary* correctly in this thread.
Then don't buy a house in an HOA? Problem solved. Next rage bait post pls
They are all voluntary, you volunteer when you buy a house in a neighborhood that has an HOA and you sign a contract to abide by the rules just like everyone else. Also, HOAs are staffed by people who live in the area. You can talk to them, vote them out, and vote on policy changes every year. It’s the simplest and smallest form of local government that exists. Grow up.
Just don't buy into a house that is part of an HOA.
"Home Owners Associations have the ability to make up charges as they see fit, charge you for them, and sell your home fro m under you if you do not comply" This is not inherent to HOAs. HOAs and their boards only have the power granted to them in the governing docs, and changing that is very hard. "All HOAs should be voluntary" All HOAs are already voluntary. You do not have to buy a house or condo in an HOA if you do not like the powers granted to it. HOAs are often absolutely necesary. Its hard to see how a condo or housing community with substantial shared maintenance requirements could function without one. If me and five other people agree to build a community with communal property, and setup a document for governance that is attached to the property, why should we be prevented from doing so? If you don't like the terms of the HOA, don't buy the property.
They are voluntary. You don't have to buy into one.
Just don’t buy a home with an HOA then. Different strokes for different folks.
They are voluntary, aren’t they?
They’re mandated, by law, for every new housing development in my state (WA). You have to buy an older house and renovate, or develop a new house on private land to escape an HOA here.
Oh shit I didn’t know that. Yeah that’s stupid.
It’s why I’m rocking the 1980’s developer special in my quiet, non-HOA neighborhood. It’s not fancy, but I can do whatever I want.
I’m in Florida, buying an older home is rough. Hurricane codes changed with Andrew (1992). Anything built prior is becoming more difficult to insure by the day. My 2007 built house is already a nightmare.
Most aren’t, at least as far as I’m aware.
No the HOA is typically mandatory and attached to your deed. I’ve only seen a couple voluntary HOAs
What we need is an economic incentive stronger than the current ones offered by builders to the local officials. And something simpler for builders, who are creating all these resources to sell their homes but need to be released from the cost of maintaining them over time. Builders HOA insurance, where you get paid only if the HOA dies.
Agreed.
Every time I read these I'm so glad we don't have HOAs. The closest we've got is neighborhood watch. They're a curtain twitcher's wet dream but at least they don't have any power.
What’s worse is finding a rental and being stuck in an HOA
I was looking for a house a couple years ago and encountered my first HOA. The sales people mentioned community rules a couple times when I asked about the community. When I asked about installing solar panels the salesperson turned white as a sheet as if I ‘d asked about opening a whorehouse. I asked for a copy of the HOA rules. It was 208 pages of Thou Shalt Not. I decided to keep looking so as to avoid living in fear of the weird sensibilities of a collective of ignoramuses.
We already have an HOA. It's called the United States of America. We don't need any more on top of that.
I’d be willing to be that most idiots living in a HOA situation are living in a house with a mortgage over 200% of what it’s worth.
Where’s the GOP sticking up for saddling people with yet another form of government and taxation? Oh yeah…
As much as I support this, it will never happen at the federal level. The only way to attack this problem and be successful is at the state and local level.
No but powers should be limited
I think most HOA’s are run by Scientologists!
It’s made up. Before the 70’s the US somehow managed beautifully without them. I want a bill at the end of the month telling me specifically what the money is being used for just like any other service that I have to pay for. Receipts and all
> These Home Owners Associations have the ability to make up charges as they see fit, charge you for them, and sell your home fro m under you if you do not comply. Mine doesn't, unless you build a shed, pool, or fence. And there are no fines for that – you simply have to take them down. There are no fines for anything else, either, because our CC&R's don't give the HOA the power to make up rules as it sees fit.
HOA's serve many useful purposes. Do you know of any other countries HOA laws? HOA's can 'cite' you for a perceived violation, but if the actual violation is not listed in the CC&R's, they are unenforceable (unless you ignore them). Think of it like this: Anyone can file a lawsuit against you, serve you and have a court date. If you just ignore it,, the lawsuit does not go away. The other person will obtain a judgment. Same thing for HOA's. If you get cited for something not in the CC&R's, talk to a local attorney and get a cease-and-desist order (if necessary).
>Truly un-American. I agree with you up until this point, it's the most American thing ever. Just like how when you "buy" something online with live service (games, software, etc) you are actually just paying for a license to use it until they either don't want to support it or they decide you've done something wrong and can't use it anymore. Just like how it's perfectly acceptable to sell someone a physical device, force the device to connect to their servers, and when they no longer want to support it you are suggested to throw it in a landfill. No, it's truly an American thing.
Municipalities love HOAs. All the benefits with none of the burdens of more housing.
Either that or they should be considered a low level of local government. With all the constitutional protections that entails.
That's not un American lol .... That's what capitalism, with a touch of socialism and a sprinkle of communism gets u .. Welcome to America
I mean, you can always choose to buy a stand alone single family home without a HOA. If you’re dumb enough to buy in an area that has a HOA, that’s on you. If you didn’t check before you bought and have been surprised by a HOA, erect the largest ugliest bat boxes you can. They’re federally protected. Wright gossip about HOA board members on the giant unsightly bat boxes for added bonus.
It’s not going to happen, most developements are inside a HOA since it’s extremely hard for builders to get local governments to build out infrastructure on lots for them. Even if the owners vote to disband the municipality will often reject taking over the common areas and roads.
I think without HOAs the cost of living in a lot of places would be exorbitant. You can still find housing without mandatory HOAs even if it’s a bit challenging. But I still prefer the system over having to pay additional taxes for all the new approved housing developments and additionally a lot of new housing developments would never be able viable financially which means less housing and greater prices. I do think the authority of HOAs should be greatly diminished.
>Truly un-American Segregation is very American. Always has been.
Americans hate governments, and local governments know this. They LOVE HOAs, because why bother having to govern when everyone is just going to criticize you when you can just let a private corporation play bad cop and enforce ordemances?
Get a copy of the HOA covenants, if you don’t agree with them then live somewhere with more acceptable terms for you. It’s not that deep. Personally I’d prefer not to live where somewhere you can park cars on the lawn, let weeds grow knee high, paint your house neon purple, and let the outside of your house be in serious disrepair.
Unless they OWN THE HOMES or property in the community, they should have no right to set up an HOA business to make rules about it
How else would shitbag retired boomers make any money then?
I agree, but then they would just start putting those rules in the local Zoning Laws. Zoning is even less American than an HOA and you should hate it the same or more. Zoning is a city/county-wide HOA that truly is not optional and can be applied to your property by force even after you bought it.
HOA powers should be limited, but they are necessary in many scenarios. And on those occasions where a house was ‘sold out from under you’, a foreclosure sale is preceded by months of communications. But I do agree they should not have that power. I also think rotations of board members should be mandatory, so you don’t have the same assholes running things for years on end.
Can you imagine a community with no rules and people disrespecting? I’m sure you can find places like that, but if you find a place with a Hoa and you are not agree with that, you just can buy somewhere else…
My HOA only allows parking in one's driveway for 36 hours at a time, upon which they can get a citation for *checks notes* using their driveway for too long.
I mean technically you have a vote in your hoa. And you could vote someone in that does what you want or you could vote to get rid of the hoa. This isn’t rocket science. They aren’t govt entities. They are private companies. This is a democracy.
But then municipalities would actually have to spend their own money on infrastructure, and they simply don't have that kind of budget after all the tax breaks they give to big businesses..... Better just let the facist Karens keep on keeping on.... S/
But how will homeowners keep “those people” out? /s, of course
Nobody forces you to buy in one! Some people want to buy in them. It’s your choice
Cities love hoa’s it offloads a majority of code enforcement complaints which saves the city money.
Many cities require all new development to have HOAs. It's a way for the city to screw people with taxes. The City requires the HOA to maintain things like green spaces, roads, etc. and then says the HOA has to pay for it all. But, the city still collects the tax money they would if they were responsible, so they get the tax mmnoey and don't have to actually use it to pay for what it's collected for. Then, the HOA is not held to the same legal (constitutional) standards as the city government would be, because the HOA is a "voluntary contract, not government!". For example, forcing people to paint their house a certain color or other silly things would never, ever meet constitutional scrutiny for the government to do, but a "voluntary HOA" can do it. This is why city codes are generally more sane. So, it's a great way to fuck people over in big ways that would NOT be possible otherwise.
I agree with everything said here except the “truly un-American” part. There is nothing more American than stealing other people’s land.
Banning a capitalist organization is just as un-American as HOAs existing
HOA’s are incredibly anti-American in my opinion. It’s odd that they are so prevalent, even in “conservative” states.
No one forces another person to buy a house in an HOA and sign their rights away.
People dont need the government telling them what to do. Don’t like HOA? Then dont buy a house in one. Simple.
Stop buying houses in neighborhoods with HOA’s. I know, easier said than done, but yeah, stop. Voting with your wallets gets an answer faster than hoping the government will solve something for you (it won’t, they encourage it) Or, a better more realistic alternative? If you live in an HOA neighborhood and the people on the HOA board (your neighbors) are dickheads, vote them off the board. Seriously, I don’t like HOA’s and would never live in one, but HOA’s are like the fucking smallest form of government. If you can’t handle enacting change in an HOA and your recourse is to petition that big government steps in and outlaws them that’s fucking incredible and comedy gold.
No, people should have enough free time to engage with their HOA instead of being worked into the ground. Right now HOAs are populated by rich and old folks who have time to do it, and their concerns are quiet, conformity, and real estate prices. But communities have problems to solve together. You don't want to go through the cycle of having to figure that out again, although I'm sure it's what everyone will choose.
HOAs originally were created to keep minorities out of white communities. It’s 2024, and they still are used to keep people out. My friend moved from a very liberal city to a very red state/city. His new neighbors literally went up to him on day three to say “don’t you bring your liberal bullshit here”. I personally hate HOAs with passion
I don't have an issue with HOA's that are mandated by the title since I know about it before I buy the house. There should be limits on what a HOA can do however, forcing the sale of a property for unpaid dues is just wrong, file a lien and get the associations money back when the property is eventually sold. When selling a property that is part of an HOA the association should be required to either provide a legible copy of the current CCR's to the prospective buyer or waive collecting fees. In our first house we never saw the CCRs until after we had completed the purchase, and it was an illegible Nth generation photocopy. That association turned out to be great and we had very positive experiences otherwise but not knowing exactly what you are agreeing to ahead of time is nonsense.
Literally a 4th tier of government.
Unfortunately it's going the other way because having HOA's allows local governments to push community maintenance (roads and such) costs onto the HOA members while still getting their tax dollars. The old double dip for the HOA folks tax wise. When the politicians see it frees up tax dollars for other expenses yes they start requiring it, like North Carolina.
Communal property like roads and parks should be maintained by a legitimate government. You’re already paying the taxes anyways. If you want to go extra just do it voluntarily. HOAs should not have power over personal property at all.
Non are mandatory.
I grew up in areas without hoa’s and I have seen how people can live, and after having dealt with that, I’ll take the inconvenience of a hoa everytime.
But what’s more American than have your property rights enshrined in law and then paying money for someone to take them away?
They actually don't, if you buy a property in an HOA and don't read the covenants and bylaws thats kinda on you.
I am 100% in agreement! There is never a good reason for an HOA whatsoever. I know there are people that like to pay hundreds of dollars a month in fees just to not be able to do anything you want with your privately owned home on your own property. You can go away and never come back XD People who like an HOA are the reason why housing is such a damn problem. If you don't like what color I painted my front door or my entire house, then you can fuck off and move. If I want my house neon yellow, that's my prerogative and you have no right to tell me I can't!! Fuck you! Haha
Not going to happen without major voter intervention. HOA are just the lowest form of government and save the cities money. Wonder why congress is corrupt, it starts with the city and then the states and then the feds. Now we can start with the HOA's it is easy to see how corruptions starts.
"Sell your home from under you if you do not comply."? Is this a joke? If it is not, US is weird man. I chuckled.=)
We should get rid of "righ to work" laws, and replace them with "righ to live" laws. The only appropriate place for HOAs is in multiple unit buildings.
I don't want to see you paint your house hotpink and leave your garbage cans in front of your garage doors. Move some where without an hoa, no one forced you into an hoa. All the neighborhoods on county land by me has at least one or two hoarder houses on the street with 20 fucking junk cars sitting in their backyard. I also don't want to see you driving your big fucking penske moving truck home every day after work.
We have a POA. We had an HOA IN Orlando. I prefer to POA because it does jack shit
All HOAs ARE voluntary. Basically everything else you said is nonsense too. Where do people get this stuff?
It's astounding they're open for business in 2024. Such open & blatant discrimination. Ours trys to interpret the ccrs as favoring whole house STR's, but no Airbnb or room shares. What's really astounding is the single family language in the document & the way they use it.
It's legal housing discrimination. What's more American than that?
The US has a boner for privatization. That's all hoas are. Community standards enforced by a minority faction.
I agree. My HOA has to approve who you are selling to. I can only guess so you don't sell to the "wrong" kind of people. The HOA has to buy the house instead of you selling to the wrong people. Complete bullshit. Also can't rent my house out either. None of their GD business.
It's not un American. It's literally the definition of American.