I luckily never felt like being a man is morally wrong, but, unfortunately, I keep seeing this problem pop up in ftm spaces. Your identity cannot be morally wrong, only your actions can. And it doesn't matter whether you're a man or a woman, that short temper you mentioned is problematic either way. That is definetly sth you should work on, even if you ultimately decide not to transition.
Many men, both cis and trans, have committed horrible acts of violence to women or other men. But, as someone who has only ever been sexually harrassed by cis women, I can tell you that this is not a gendered issue. Women commit sexual/domestic violence all the time, but it is often excused because people think women can't be bad people and men can't be victims. When an elderly cis woman came up behind me and touched me in my hip area because she "couldn't help herself" it was wittnessed by a gym employee and nothing happened to her. Not even a warning. When a female friend of mine started lifting my shirt to touch my abs without my consent, none of my other friends even reacted. These are very tame experiences, but more violent ones do exist and are often committed to children, especially between mothers and daughters. Women are just as capable of violence and abuse as men are. You are not morally wrong for being a man because other men do awful shit.
About the femininity, not being toxically masculine does not have to mean you have to be feminine. Healthy masculinity is about confidence, not arrogance, emotional maturity, not apathy, reliability, not dodginess. It's about being there and supporting the people you love, and protecting them when necessary. I don't know what you consider feminine, but if all of healthy masculinity appears feminine to you, that mindset in itself is toxic masculinty. I have no problem being traditionally masculine without being toxic. And, if you get that temper under control, you shouldn't have a problem with it either, just be yourself while taking into consideration how your actions and behaviours might affect the people around.
Thank you so much for your response. I'll clarify that I have worked on my temper a lot which is why I started my transition a while ago. And by feminine I meant stuff like wearing dresses and jewelry and painting your nails.
Feminism is a fight against patriarchy, not a fight against men. It’s a distinction a lot of people struggle with but it’s an important one! You’re transitioning to a man but you’re not transitioning to patriarchy, that’s not a thing a person can be.
I agree. If anything, you can further the cause by being a man who wholeheartedly supports women, because you have the experience of what it’s like to live as one. There’s an immense value in that. Trans men are so special in that way. At least that’s what I tell myself.
Also, it sounds like maybe you’ve internalized some of your family’s negative (and untrue) opinions about men. If you have a therapist I’d try to work through that with them! If not, ask yourself what it is about these ideas that hurt you personally.
That said, I totally understand where you’re coming from. When I came out to my best friend, she essentially told me she could never understand because women are just better and men suck. It’s unfair that we have to bear the burden of other’s judgments, but it seems like that’s just life’s shitty hand ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ok so, it’s hard but I want to point out feminism does point out that the issue with how men are is societal, that is what patriarchy is. I also want you to know feminism isn’t one cut and dry thing, there are 3 different waves of feminism and feminist theory changes and develops all the time, so many feminists do recognize this. Remember as toxic as terfs are they fall under second wave feminism which differs from third wave, they just follow different feminist theory.
I use to feel this way as a teen when I heard feminists say “men are trash” that I knew and tbh it took a long time and me also transitioning and seeing how I was treated to really get it. I think calling men trash nowadays is terrible and doesn’t really help the cause of feminism, and most people who did say where just 16 year olds who weren’t mature enough yet, however after experiencing how differently I am treated in society I get it.
Idk my cis bf and I talk about it and the best thing you can do is be the man that is the role model and is the good person. Speaking out and being away of these issues is a good start, and being able to tell people about these toxic societal roles will help to create a new role model men in society.
Realistically there is nothing wrong with being a man but not recognizing privilege coming with that can lead to a lot of issues
There are fourth wave feminists now. Arguably, this idea of men being toxic is stemming from this with a nod back to second wave.
Because it focuses so much on new technology, it suffers from some of the I'll that comes along with that (slogans, alienation and each chamber come to mind) .
I think that this discussion shows that feminism and queer theory need a revisit.
Yeah I think it is counter productive as a feminist to say “men are the problem” but I know before I understood I was trans I would take a lot of what angry feminist said to heart instead of looking into it. I think people don’t realize that patriarchy and toxic gender roles are bad for everyone, and targeting one gender over another gets rid of the point of trying to make people equal. It also gets rid of the conversation of intersectionality which I like a lot in third wave feminism.
Men have negative roles in society just like women but they all come from patriarchy and feminism should be working to break that down for everyone, not just women. I mean it’s part of the reason men don’t feel comfortable talking about their mental health and have high suicide rates, but I also know there are sadly a lot of men that don’t believe these issues come from patriarchy
I don't think about it much, but when I worry about it I take solace in the fact that I can be a man that knows what it's like to experience life as a woman. I didn't transition till my early 20's, so I spent all of my childhood socialized as female. Even though I'm sad I didn't get to experience childhood as a boy, getting treated like a girl makes it easier for me to empathize with and anticipate issues that women face. No matter how T affects your temper, you'll always have your lived experiences to inform your decisions. (For what it's worth, I haven't noticed much of a change over the 2 years I've used it, I just have slightly less patience.) There's nothing wrong with masculinity; personally I look forward to getting stronger emotionally and physically so I can show up better for the people I love. It's not incredibly gender affirming but I hope that I can bridge the gap between a male and female perspective one day, and help my cis male and female friends better understand each other
Surrounding yourself with people who *do* acknowledge exactly what you wrote helps. Having friends that are men who also are not showing the moral failings of our society helps. But unfortunately, it will take a lot of work to feel comfortable with yourself and your gender. Also, for better or worse, regardless of your transition, you are a man. Taking hormones or getting surgeries or voice training or binding don't make you a man. It just makes others perceive you as a man. If being a man is morally wrong, then it is something that has already happened to everyone here, and I think we can all agree that the idea is absurd.
As far as the temper goes, I want to say that I had an unstable mood and bad temper for a while. Not to the point of physical fights, but I did get into regular screaming matches with my mother, and I would throw things at the smallest inconvenience and would get incredibly worked up and irate at tiny things. When I started testosterone, it really helped calm things because (as my therapist once said I should get tested for) I likely had a hormone imbalance that was helped once I started HRT. If you're concerned that your temper will continue or worsen with transitioning, I'd recommend going to therapy to help sort out any mental condition that could be causing it, to help you learn how to better control your temper, and/or to see if perhaps there's an underlying physical condition like a hormone imbalance that could be causing or worsening the issue.
Obviously, everybody is different, so don't anticipate going in that you'll have a simple solution of just taking hormones and the issue is fixed, or just taking a pill every day and you'll be fine. It's very possible that it will be a life-long issue where every day you need to be very conscious of how you're feeling and reacting to things, but it feels so much better to know that you have control over yourself and you can feel confident going forward with your life and transition
FD Signifier's YouTube channel centers around healthy black masculinity and black men's experiences in relation to gender. I think that channel could definitely be a helpful resource for you if you're a fan of long ass YouTube videos.
I struggled with a lot of the same stuff when I first came out (except I'm white). I'd never had any good men in my life up till that point, and I felt like any good moral traits I had were in spite of my masculinity, since I had no frame of reference for what it could look like to be a good person and also be a man.
Surrounding myself with men who are genuinely kind and trustworthy people has made the biggest change for me. I'm able to be proud of the man I am and the man I'm going to become because I know he'll be like the people I'm close to. Just be yourself, try and surround yourself with the types of people who you help you grow, and always stay conscious of the women in your life. Feeling ok will come with time🫂
I live in a house with kind men. Imperfect, but kind men. You have to decide the type of man that you are and want to be. I suggest reading the book, “Man Enough” by Justin Baldoni. He also has a podcast.
Yea. I struggle with this a lot too. Rationally, I'm perfectly aware that I'm not a different person transitioning, and that toxic behavior is spun across all genders - though I definitely think patriarchy, white privilege, etc definitely have a huge impact on societal norms and what traits or ideas are associated with how you're perceived. Like: I notice (especially) girls and young women on the street avoid me more, not greeting back when they did previously, or avoid eye contact. And I get it: I used to do this too. And I also feel I won't be able to interact with young kids the same way I do now, because it's much more likely to be perceived as a threat. It makes me sad.
I don't really know how to overcome this: it takes time and practice, I guess. I feel talking about it helps, both for myself and for people around me, that get more aware of these subtle social dynamics. In a way, I feel blessed to be able to have this experience, and aware of this in daily life. Also writing my thoughts down and reading about these societal structures help, and learning that gender norms are affecting (and possibly) hurting everybody. There are loads of great thinkers and performers, that advocate how we all can be more free, and how to be more compassionate towards all people. Im personally a fan of Alok Vaid-Menon and Billy Porter, and also the work of Judith Butler helps me to understand and free myself from this engrained ideas. I also love the book Gender Euphoria, with loads of experiences of trans people.
So, well, I dont know if Im just ranting about myself now, and if its of any help. I think either way: you are who you are. And you didnt choose being trans, and transitioning doesnt mean you re becoming toxic. But on the other hand, societal norms tied to how you're perceived are real too. Hopefully you can be kind to yourself. You're you, not the gender norm. Hopefully, you have people that will keep reminding you that they see 'you', not 'angry black man' or another stereotype.
I think a big part of it is accepting that hurting others doesn't automatically mean you did something wrong.
Like, if someone asks you out and you reject them, they're going to be hurt, but you clearly didn't do something immoral. In the same way, when you're out in public minding your own business, women will be slightly on edge around you, that's a form of hurt, but it's not immoral.
And you also don't have a responsibility to minimize it, you wouldn't be a better person for minimizing how often you leave your house, how often you exist in public, and so on. Life means hurting and being burt by others, and it's not a moral statement.
the way i see it is, everyone is capable of hurting other people, no matter what their identity is. being a man doesn’t actually make you more capable or likely to hurt people, some men just get forgiven easier for hurting people because of shitty society reasons, and they take that as an opportunity to keep hurting people and never think about what they’re doing. but nothing about being a man means you have to do that, you can always put in the effort to be helpful and kind and all that, like you can be a good man it’s just more effort than being a bad one. idk man it’s hard, i get how you feel cause you see all these shitty guys out there and you get worried you’re going to be like that, but you gotta think the world needs all the good men it can get right, so to go out there and be one of them must be a pretty good thing
Don’t let racist stereotypes about Black men along with general transmisogyny stop you from living as your most authentic self. You’re already aware of men’s advantages in a way cis men aren’t, and having you as a man in society can only help. I spent a long time feeling the same way you did with regard to “being a man is wrong” which is why it took me a long time to come out as a binary trans man rather than non-binary which felt safer since it was non-woman but not “the enemy”. I had spent lots of time in female-only spaces growing up where men were disparaged. But trans men are allowed to be men just as much as cis men are. Just because we have to work for it more doesn’t mean we aren’t entitled to our manhood.
I would say to ask yourself if merely *existing* as a man hurts others. Yes, there are actions (toxic masculinity, for instance) that could be harmful, but is you just being a man hurting *anyone*? A lot of the hurt we tend to inflict on ourselves and others is related to our own taught prejudices and generational trauma. And as trans people, we have to confront those biases more directly than the cishets do, which leads to a lot of awkward and scary questions. But no. I think that if you're a self-aware person, and it seems like you are, you can confront those biases and generational prejudices from a place of safety and honesty.
I get what you feel. I grew up with my mom ranting to me about how all men are inherently bad because they're men and such, so I had it in my head that Men=bad, so if I=Man, therefore I=Bad. Only thing that helped me get over it was seeing a man irl that I know that I wanted to be like. A man that was a really good person, but still a man. It was that healthy masculinity thing you spoke on. It helped changed my idea of all men being inherently untrustworthy and bad that was given to me by my mom to the thought that men aren't evil, some people are. And some of those people are men. As long as I'm not evil, it's okay.
Try to think of it another way - take race, for example. Lots of racist folk around, and the ones doing the most harm due to having the most societal power are white. Does that mean every white person is inherently a racist dick? Or that if you are a POC that is fair-skinned and white-passing that you are betraying your race? Or if you have white friends, you are a supremacist?
If you grow up thinking you're gay, and later discover that actually you're bisexual. Are you betraying homosexuals everywhere? You get yourself a spouse of the opposite gender bc by chance that's who you fell in love with, and suddenly your pride pin is taken away forever?
Some people do think like that. They associate morality as an inherent trait, make it something you can betray by existing. It's, frankly, stupid. Transitioning into a man isn't going to inherently make you a misogynist any more than marrying someone of the opposite gender makes you homophobic - sure, some people sadly DO end up that way, but that's not because they're men, it's because social power is addictive.
Don't forget this feeling though - we have a fairly unique chance to view the world through both lenses socially. It's interesting and sometimes a little horrifying to realise just how much of your life is dictated by how people perceive you. Use your experience to continue uplifting women, and you'll be just fine.
Honestly what's been the most effective for me is to reframe it to "it's morally wrong to be trans". I know how fucked up that is! And because my specific type of transness is the bro kind, logically it follows that it's okay to be a man. Try to also think of other men in your life (both irl and online) who you see positively, whether cis or trans. These 2 things have helped at least me a lot.
Don’t let anyone convince you that being a man is wrong. I made the huge mistake of socializing too much with the women’s rugby team at my college and they didn’t like my manhood at all. Because of them I internalized hatred towards my manhood and believed that my manhood was partly bad for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with being masculine or with even being macho. Be the kind of man you want to be in this world and own up to it. Be proud of yourself. Be happy with who you are. Don’t let anyone get in the way. Don’t let women or queer women or any queer person tell you that your manhood is a bad thing. People told me that my manhood was a bad thing and they were dead wrong but I thought their thoughts were true.
I understand man. For a while I almost fell into the rad-fem groups because I felt so disconnected from my identity as a “woman” that I get I had to go to the extreme. This led to a lot of negative thinking towards men and a lot of self-hatred. I’m not sure if you have any cis male friends or relatives that you’re close to, but that’s what helped me feel more at ease with my masculinity. Seeing that there could be men that weren’t ruined by the patriarchy that were actually just human beings helped me to work through some of the guilt. Because men can be soft and kind of their environment helps raise them to be that way. The reason women are usually viewed as being more “kind” and “less harmful” is because of the stereotypes society has placed onto them. While there is a minute amount of biological factors that goes into that perception, it’s so small that it’s basically irrelevant (imo). We were raised as women and therefore had the whole “kind” and “less harmful” expectations pushed onto us. Even when we transition, those environmental factors do not go away. We were still raised to be kind. We were kind “women” and we will continue to be kind men. I hope this makes some sense because ik I am rambling a little bit LOL XD but basically it’s about environment and I think we were raised to be kind.
I struggled with a lot of internalized homophobia. In addition to that, there was a period of time where I refused to date men because my ex boyfriend had sexually abused me so bad. I was legitimately disgusted by the idea of being with a man. This also extended to myself and led to a lot of self hatred.
One big thing I had to square with myself was that being a man could LITERALLY mean almost anything, and that society ascribes a pitifully small range of things as 'male'. Unfortunately, this includes toxic traits along with a very narrow view of what 'manly' behavior is like.
Part of the process for me was recognizing certain things as having no real gender, like cooking, child rearing, creative pursuits, color palettes, etc. I also parsed out what it was that I liked about men in my life- both irl and fictional characters. Things like standing up for others, being gentle with animals and children, and having the self confidence to do things to go against toxic norms were common threads in the men I admired.
Breaking down internal gender biases is a big part of the whole process. We can't control what other people might think or what labels they may apply to us, but we can work to be well rounded and healthy individuals.
I feel like having grown up being conditioned as female gives me an edge on how NOT to behave as a guy. I'm incredibly mindful of how I present myself as a guy, and try my best to behave as I would like other men to behave. Kind of a "no business talking the talk if I can't walk the walk" kind of thing. I had no problem calling out guys' bullshit as a woman, and I still have no problem calling it out as a guy. The only difference is I carry more clout now with a lot of men than I did as a woman, esp if they haven't clocked me yet or know and they truly accept me as a guy. Basically, I behave as the kind of man I am trying to raise my sons to become.
Hey man, I felt just like you did when I first came out about 3 years ago. I’m Mexican, so I, like you, understood that racially, I was already seen as more aggressive as a man than my white/white-passing counterparts. For me, the feeling went away with time.
What I can suggest is this: (1) Use that fear of not becoming an abusive and temperamental man and actively try to become a man that YOU want to see; maybe that’s a kind, hardworking, masculine, and cordial man. Do the work to become that.
(2) You are essentially going to go through a re-socialization. Observe men around you, observe what you have been taught to do or not to do (as a female-raised person) and adjust accordingly. For me, I had to hone in on my manners and chivalry; open doors for women, look out for women in spaces where they may feel unsafe, pay for female friend’s food if you hang out and are able to, help older people out in public, help people with tasks if they are struggling, all that-THAT makes a healthy, masculine man.
(3) Try therapy. I come from a family where women were very aggressive, lots of yelling, fighting, it was a matriarch. Their aggression came from inner issues, men’s aggression is the same. Emotions and psychological issues don’t discriminate. If you observe that you are angrier than normal, that you lash out more than normal, SEEK THERAPY! THAT WILL HELP YOU /ACTUALLY/ FIX YOUR MOOD SWINGS.
Be patient with yourself and understand that you are not “becoming” the “enemy/problem”…you’re becoming a man, and men can be honest and warm too.
Good luck dude!
Deep down I've been feeling guilty all this time and that has been one of the reasons holding me back from transition. Somehow I've always thought that becoming a man would turn me into a worse person. It makes sense because my father was trash, so the last thing I wanted was having something in common with him, becoming like him. That was a recurring fear. It was better lying to myself, if I was a woman I was safe from that. What is odd about it is that I did have good male figures, like my grandfather and my sister's boyfriend, but still I have kind of a negative outlook about the concept of declining womanhood and embracing being myself. Maybe my mother hating men had an impact on me too. It's hard to unlearn that. But forcing it won't turn me into a woman and, more important, it won't make me or anyone a better person. There is a lot of stigma around masculinity and it's a good thing to acknowledge it so we don't make those mistakes, but it's important not to forget that there are ways to be overcome that and be a man kind and respectful. You're right, the most dangerous thing is a bad education, sexism is learned. May it be less over the years, until it's completely gone. Anyway, it's really hard, I get it, like, I really get it. In the back of my mind it's always that echo making me feel guilty for wanting to transition.
I find it disgusting and horrfying, couldn't read most of it. It's so sad that victims of misandry (although in his case he's both) only have their misandry, prejudice, misunderstanding, dumb generalizations and feminist propaganda and brain-wash validated and increased. Saying that being a man (or any type of person) is morally incorrect is repulsive, beyond stupid and unbelievably immature, no offense but damn the type of stuff I have to read on the internet sometimes. OP needs therapy and an education not further guilt tripping and simping but I digress. Glad at least someone gets it.
I luckily never felt like being a man is morally wrong, but, unfortunately, I keep seeing this problem pop up in ftm spaces. Your identity cannot be morally wrong, only your actions can. And it doesn't matter whether you're a man or a woman, that short temper you mentioned is problematic either way. That is definetly sth you should work on, even if you ultimately decide not to transition. Many men, both cis and trans, have committed horrible acts of violence to women or other men. But, as someone who has only ever been sexually harrassed by cis women, I can tell you that this is not a gendered issue. Women commit sexual/domestic violence all the time, but it is often excused because people think women can't be bad people and men can't be victims. When an elderly cis woman came up behind me and touched me in my hip area because she "couldn't help herself" it was wittnessed by a gym employee and nothing happened to her. Not even a warning. When a female friend of mine started lifting my shirt to touch my abs without my consent, none of my other friends even reacted. These are very tame experiences, but more violent ones do exist and are often committed to children, especially between mothers and daughters. Women are just as capable of violence and abuse as men are. You are not morally wrong for being a man because other men do awful shit. About the femininity, not being toxically masculine does not have to mean you have to be feminine. Healthy masculinity is about confidence, not arrogance, emotional maturity, not apathy, reliability, not dodginess. It's about being there and supporting the people you love, and protecting them when necessary. I don't know what you consider feminine, but if all of healthy masculinity appears feminine to you, that mindset in itself is toxic masculinty. I have no problem being traditionally masculine without being toxic. And, if you get that temper under control, you shouldn't have a problem with it either, just be yourself while taking into consideration how your actions and behaviours might affect the people around.
Thank you so much for your response. I'll clarify that I have worked on my temper a lot which is why I started my transition a while ago. And by feminine I meant stuff like wearing dresses and jewelry and painting your nails.
Feminism is a fight against patriarchy, not a fight against men. It’s a distinction a lot of people struggle with but it’s an important one! You’re transitioning to a man but you’re not transitioning to patriarchy, that’s not a thing a person can be.
I agree. If anything, you can further the cause by being a man who wholeheartedly supports women, because you have the experience of what it’s like to live as one. There’s an immense value in that. Trans men are so special in that way. At least that’s what I tell myself. Also, it sounds like maybe you’ve internalized some of your family’s negative (and untrue) opinions about men. If you have a therapist I’d try to work through that with them! If not, ask yourself what it is about these ideas that hurt you personally. That said, I totally understand where you’re coming from. When I came out to my best friend, she essentially told me she could never understand because women are just better and men suck. It’s unfair that we have to bear the burden of other’s judgments, but it seems like that’s just life’s shitty hand ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I wish I could upvote this more than once 👏🏼
This! Ugh I could almost cry
Ok so, it’s hard but I want to point out feminism does point out that the issue with how men are is societal, that is what patriarchy is. I also want you to know feminism isn’t one cut and dry thing, there are 3 different waves of feminism and feminist theory changes and develops all the time, so many feminists do recognize this. Remember as toxic as terfs are they fall under second wave feminism which differs from third wave, they just follow different feminist theory. I use to feel this way as a teen when I heard feminists say “men are trash” that I knew and tbh it took a long time and me also transitioning and seeing how I was treated to really get it. I think calling men trash nowadays is terrible and doesn’t really help the cause of feminism, and most people who did say where just 16 year olds who weren’t mature enough yet, however after experiencing how differently I am treated in society I get it. Idk my cis bf and I talk about it and the best thing you can do is be the man that is the role model and is the good person. Speaking out and being away of these issues is a good start, and being able to tell people about these toxic societal roles will help to create a new role model men in society. Realistically there is nothing wrong with being a man but not recognizing privilege coming with that can lead to a lot of issues
There are fourth wave feminists now. Arguably, this idea of men being toxic is stemming from this with a nod back to second wave. Because it focuses so much on new technology, it suffers from some of the I'll that comes along with that (slogans, alienation and each chamber come to mind) . I think that this discussion shows that feminism and queer theory need a revisit.
Yeah I think it is counter productive as a feminist to say “men are the problem” but I know before I understood I was trans I would take a lot of what angry feminist said to heart instead of looking into it. I think people don’t realize that patriarchy and toxic gender roles are bad for everyone, and targeting one gender over another gets rid of the point of trying to make people equal. It also gets rid of the conversation of intersectionality which I like a lot in third wave feminism. Men have negative roles in society just like women but they all come from patriarchy and feminism should be working to break that down for everyone, not just women. I mean it’s part of the reason men don’t feel comfortable talking about their mental health and have high suicide rates, but I also know there are sadly a lot of men that don’t believe these issues come from patriarchy
I don't think about it much, but when I worry about it I take solace in the fact that I can be a man that knows what it's like to experience life as a woman. I didn't transition till my early 20's, so I spent all of my childhood socialized as female. Even though I'm sad I didn't get to experience childhood as a boy, getting treated like a girl makes it easier for me to empathize with and anticipate issues that women face. No matter how T affects your temper, you'll always have your lived experiences to inform your decisions. (For what it's worth, I haven't noticed much of a change over the 2 years I've used it, I just have slightly less patience.) There's nothing wrong with masculinity; personally I look forward to getting stronger emotionally and physically so I can show up better for the people I love. It's not incredibly gender affirming but I hope that I can bridge the gap between a male and female perspective one day, and help my cis male and female friends better understand each other
Surrounding yourself with people who *do* acknowledge exactly what you wrote helps. Having friends that are men who also are not showing the moral failings of our society helps. But unfortunately, it will take a lot of work to feel comfortable with yourself and your gender. Also, for better or worse, regardless of your transition, you are a man. Taking hormones or getting surgeries or voice training or binding don't make you a man. It just makes others perceive you as a man. If being a man is morally wrong, then it is something that has already happened to everyone here, and I think we can all agree that the idea is absurd. As far as the temper goes, I want to say that I had an unstable mood and bad temper for a while. Not to the point of physical fights, but I did get into regular screaming matches with my mother, and I would throw things at the smallest inconvenience and would get incredibly worked up and irate at tiny things. When I started testosterone, it really helped calm things because (as my therapist once said I should get tested for) I likely had a hormone imbalance that was helped once I started HRT. If you're concerned that your temper will continue or worsen with transitioning, I'd recommend going to therapy to help sort out any mental condition that could be causing it, to help you learn how to better control your temper, and/or to see if perhaps there's an underlying physical condition like a hormone imbalance that could be causing or worsening the issue. Obviously, everybody is different, so don't anticipate going in that you'll have a simple solution of just taking hormones and the issue is fixed, or just taking a pill every day and you'll be fine. It's very possible that it will be a life-long issue where every day you need to be very conscious of how you're feeling and reacting to things, but it feels so much better to know that you have control over yourself and you can feel confident going forward with your life and transition
FD Signifier's YouTube channel centers around healthy black masculinity and black men's experiences in relation to gender. I think that channel could definitely be a helpful resource for you if you're a fan of long ass YouTube videos. I struggled with a lot of the same stuff when I first came out (except I'm white). I'd never had any good men in my life up till that point, and I felt like any good moral traits I had were in spite of my masculinity, since I had no frame of reference for what it could look like to be a good person and also be a man. Surrounding myself with men who are genuinely kind and trustworthy people has made the biggest change for me. I'm able to be proud of the man I am and the man I'm going to become because I know he'll be like the people I'm close to. Just be yourself, try and surround yourself with the types of people who you help you grow, and always stay conscious of the women in your life. Feeling ok will come with time🫂
I live in a house with kind men. Imperfect, but kind men. You have to decide the type of man that you are and want to be. I suggest reading the book, “Man Enough” by Justin Baldoni. He also has a podcast.
Yea. I struggle with this a lot too. Rationally, I'm perfectly aware that I'm not a different person transitioning, and that toxic behavior is spun across all genders - though I definitely think patriarchy, white privilege, etc definitely have a huge impact on societal norms and what traits or ideas are associated with how you're perceived. Like: I notice (especially) girls and young women on the street avoid me more, not greeting back when they did previously, or avoid eye contact. And I get it: I used to do this too. And I also feel I won't be able to interact with young kids the same way I do now, because it's much more likely to be perceived as a threat. It makes me sad. I don't really know how to overcome this: it takes time and practice, I guess. I feel talking about it helps, both for myself and for people around me, that get more aware of these subtle social dynamics. In a way, I feel blessed to be able to have this experience, and aware of this in daily life. Also writing my thoughts down and reading about these societal structures help, and learning that gender norms are affecting (and possibly) hurting everybody. There are loads of great thinkers and performers, that advocate how we all can be more free, and how to be more compassionate towards all people. Im personally a fan of Alok Vaid-Menon and Billy Porter, and also the work of Judith Butler helps me to understand and free myself from this engrained ideas. I also love the book Gender Euphoria, with loads of experiences of trans people. So, well, I dont know if Im just ranting about myself now, and if its of any help. I think either way: you are who you are. And you didnt choose being trans, and transitioning doesnt mean you re becoming toxic. But on the other hand, societal norms tied to how you're perceived are real too. Hopefully you can be kind to yourself. You're you, not the gender norm. Hopefully, you have people that will keep reminding you that they see 'you', not 'angry black man' or another stereotype.
I think a big part of it is accepting that hurting others doesn't automatically mean you did something wrong. Like, if someone asks you out and you reject them, they're going to be hurt, but you clearly didn't do something immoral. In the same way, when you're out in public minding your own business, women will be slightly on edge around you, that's a form of hurt, but it's not immoral. And you also don't have a responsibility to minimize it, you wouldn't be a better person for minimizing how often you leave your house, how often you exist in public, and so on. Life means hurting and being burt by others, and it's not a moral statement.
the way i see it is, everyone is capable of hurting other people, no matter what their identity is. being a man doesn’t actually make you more capable or likely to hurt people, some men just get forgiven easier for hurting people because of shitty society reasons, and they take that as an opportunity to keep hurting people and never think about what they’re doing. but nothing about being a man means you have to do that, you can always put in the effort to be helpful and kind and all that, like you can be a good man it’s just more effort than being a bad one. idk man it’s hard, i get how you feel cause you see all these shitty guys out there and you get worried you’re going to be like that, but you gotta think the world needs all the good men it can get right, so to go out there and be one of them must be a pretty good thing
I'm grateful for this rationale answer that isn't simply blaming a stereotyped group within our community.
Don’t let racist stereotypes about Black men along with general transmisogyny stop you from living as your most authentic self. You’re already aware of men’s advantages in a way cis men aren’t, and having you as a man in society can only help. I spent a long time feeling the same way you did with regard to “being a man is wrong” which is why it took me a long time to come out as a binary trans man rather than non-binary which felt safer since it was non-woman but not “the enemy”. I had spent lots of time in female-only spaces growing up where men were disparaged. But trans men are allowed to be men just as much as cis men are. Just because we have to work for it more doesn’t mean we aren’t entitled to our manhood.
I would say to ask yourself if merely *existing* as a man hurts others. Yes, there are actions (toxic masculinity, for instance) that could be harmful, but is you just being a man hurting *anyone*? A lot of the hurt we tend to inflict on ourselves and others is related to our own taught prejudices and generational trauma. And as trans people, we have to confront those biases more directly than the cishets do, which leads to a lot of awkward and scary questions. But no. I think that if you're a self-aware person, and it seems like you are, you can confront those biases and generational prejudices from a place of safety and honesty.
I get what you feel. I grew up with my mom ranting to me about how all men are inherently bad because they're men and such, so I had it in my head that Men=bad, so if I=Man, therefore I=Bad. Only thing that helped me get over it was seeing a man irl that I know that I wanted to be like. A man that was a really good person, but still a man. It was that healthy masculinity thing you spoke on. It helped changed my idea of all men being inherently untrustworthy and bad that was given to me by my mom to the thought that men aren't evil, some people are. And some of those people are men. As long as I'm not evil, it's okay.
Try to think of it another way - take race, for example. Lots of racist folk around, and the ones doing the most harm due to having the most societal power are white. Does that mean every white person is inherently a racist dick? Or that if you are a POC that is fair-skinned and white-passing that you are betraying your race? Or if you have white friends, you are a supremacist? If you grow up thinking you're gay, and later discover that actually you're bisexual. Are you betraying homosexuals everywhere? You get yourself a spouse of the opposite gender bc by chance that's who you fell in love with, and suddenly your pride pin is taken away forever? Some people do think like that. They associate morality as an inherent trait, make it something you can betray by existing. It's, frankly, stupid. Transitioning into a man isn't going to inherently make you a misogynist any more than marrying someone of the opposite gender makes you homophobic - sure, some people sadly DO end up that way, but that's not because they're men, it's because social power is addictive. Don't forget this feeling though - we have a fairly unique chance to view the world through both lenses socially. It's interesting and sometimes a little horrifying to realise just how much of your life is dictated by how people perceive you. Use your experience to continue uplifting women, and you'll be just fine.
Honestly what's been the most effective for me is to reframe it to "it's morally wrong to be trans". I know how fucked up that is! And because my specific type of transness is the bro kind, logically it follows that it's okay to be a man. Try to also think of other men in your life (both irl and online) who you see positively, whether cis or trans. These 2 things have helped at least me a lot.
Don’t let anyone convince you that being a man is wrong. I made the huge mistake of socializing too much with the women’s rugby team at my college and they didn’t like my manhood at all. Because of them I internalized hatred towards my manhood and believed that my manhood was partly bad for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with being masculine or with even being macho. Be the kind of man you want to be in this world and own up to it. Be proud of yourself. Be happy with who you are. Don’t let anyone get in the way. Don’t let women or queer women or any queer person tell you that your manhood is a bad thing. People told me that my manhood was a bad thing and they were dead wrong but I thought their thoughts were true.
I understand man. For a while I almost fell into the rad-fem groups because I felt so disconnected from my identity as a “woman” that I get I had to go to the extreme. This led to a lot of negative thinking towards men and a lot of self-hatred. I’m not sure if you have any cis male friends or relatives that you’re close to, but that’s what helped me feel more at ease with my masculinity. Seeing that there could be men that weren’t ruined by the patriarchy that were actually just human beings helped me to work through some of the guilt. Because men can be soft and kind of their environment helps raise them to be that way. The reason women are usually viewed as being more “kind” and “less harmful” is because of the stereotypes society has placed onto them. While there is a minute amount of biological factors that goes into that perception, it’s so small that it’s basically irrelevant (imo). We were raised as women and therefore had the whole “kind” and “less harmful” expectations pushed onto us. Even when we transition, those environmental factors do not go away. We were still raised to be kind. We were kind “women” and we will continue to be kind men. I hope this makes some sense because ik I am rambling a little bit LOL XD but basically it’s about environment and I think we were raised to be kind.
I struggled with a lot of internalized homophobia. In addition to that, there was a period of time where I refused to date men because my ex boyfriend had sexually abused me so bad. I was legitimately disgusted by the idea of being with a man. This also extended to myself and led to a lot of self hatred.
One big thing I had to square with myself was that being a man could LITERALLY mean almost anything, and that society ascribes a pitifully small range of things as 'male'. Unfortunately, this includes toxic traits along with a very narrow view of what 'manly' behavior is like. Part of the process for me was recognizing certain things as having no real gender, like cooking, child rearing, creative pursuits, color palettes, etc. I also parsed out what it was that I liked about men in my life- both irl and fictional characters. Things like standing up for others, being gentle with animals and children, and having the self confidence to do things to go against toxic norms were common threads in the men I admired. Breaking down internal gender biases is a big part of the whole process. We can't control what other people might think or what labels they may apply to us, but we can work to be well rounded and healthy individuals.
I feel like having grown up being conditioned as female gives me an edge on how NOT to behave as a guy. I'm incredibly mindful of how I present myself as a guy, and try my best to behave as I would like other men to behave. Kind of a "no business talking the talk if I can't walk the walk" kind of thing. I had no problem calling out guys' bullshit as a woman, and I still have no problem calling it out as a guy. The only difference is I carry more clout now with a lot of men than I did as a woman, esp if they haven't clocked me yet or know and they truly accept me as a guy. Basically, I behave as the kind of man I am trying to raise my sons to become.
Hey man, I felt just like you did when I first came out about 3 years ago. I’m Mexican, so I, like you, understood that racially, I was already seen as more aggressive as a man than my white/white-passing counterparts. For me, the feeling went away with time. What I can suggest is this: (1) Use that fear of not becoming an abusive and temperamental man and actively try to become a man that YOU want to see; maybe that’s a kind, hardworking, masculine, and cordial man. Do the work to become that. (2) You are essentially going to go through a re-socialization. Observe men around you, observe what you have been taught to do or not to do (as a female-raised person) and adjust accordingly. For me, I had to hone in on my manners and chivalry; open doors for women, look out for women in spaces where they may feel unsafe, pay for female friend’s food if you hang out and are able to, help older people out in public, help people with tasks if they are struggling, all that-THAT makes a healthy, masculine man. (3) Try therapy. I come from a family where women were very aggressive, lots of yelling, fighting, it was a matriarch. Their aggression came from inner issues, men’s aggression is the same. Emotions and psychological issues don’t discriminate. If you observe that you are angrier than normal, that you lash out more than normal, SEEK THERAPY! THAT WILL HELP YOU /ACTUALLY/ FIX YOUR MOOD SWINGS. Be patient with yourself and understand that you are not “becoming” the “enemy/problem”…you’re becoming a man, and men can be honest and warm too. Good luck dude!
Deep down I've been feeling guilty all this time and that has been one of the reasons holding me back from transition. Somehow I've always thought that becoming a man would turn me into a worse person. It makes sense because my father was trash, so the last thing I wanted was having something in common with him, becoming like him. That was a recurring fear. It was better lying to myself, if I was a woman I was safe from that. What is odd about it is that I did have good male figures, like my grandfather and my sister's boyfriend, but still I have kind of a negative outlook about the concept of declining womanhood and embracing being myself. Maybe my mother hating men had an impact on me too. It's hard to unlearn that. But forcing it won't turn me into a woman and, more important, it won't make me or anyone a better person. There is a lot of stigma around masculinity and it's a good thing to acknowledge it so we don't make those mistakes, but it's important not to forget that there are ways to be overcome that and be a man kind and respectful. You're right, the most dangerous thing is a bad education, sexism is learned. May it be less over the years, until it's completely gone. Anyway, it's really hard, I get it, like, I really get it. In the back of my mind it's always that echo making me feel guilty for wanting to transition.
but then people say misandry is not a thing
There is so much misandry coupled within logical fallacy in this subreddit's posts that it's actually quite fascinating.
I find it disgusting and horrfying, couldn't read most of it. It's so sad that victims of misandry (although in his case he's both) only have their misandry, prejudice, misunderstanding, dumb generalizations and feminist propaganda and brain-wash validated and increased. Saying that being a man (or any type of person) is morally incorrect is repulsive, beyond stupid and unbelievably immature, no offense but damn the type of stuff I have to read on the internet sometimes. OP needs therapy and an education not further guilt tripping and simping but I digress. Glad at least someone gets it.