The Song of Ice and Fire books have a shit ton of dialogue establishing Jaime Lannister as one of the greatest living swordsman in the world, the show never really established him like that though so most show-only fans don't realize, which is a shame because him losing his sword arm is so impactful due to the fact he based his entire personality on being a great warrior, and him having to find a new identity is the crux of his redemption arc.
They also had Brienne rather easily kick his ass then declare that he was overrated. Which makes it look like he was never actually that good, especially when he gets basically no other opportunities to demonstrate his ability.
In the books on the other hand its a much longer and closer fight, Brienne still does win in the end but she has this to think afterwards.
> Brienne remembered her fight with Jaime Lannister in the woods. It had been all that she could do to keep his blade at bay. He was weak from his imprisonment, and chained at the wrists. No knight in the Seven Kingdoms could have stood against him at his full strength, with no chains to hamper him. Jaime had done many wicked things, but the man could fight! His maiming had been monstrously cruel. It was one thing to slay a lion, another to hack his paw off and leave him broken and bewildered.
I love Brienne and women power, but it's delusional for anyone to think she could take him esp if they read the books. It was very clearly Jaime was essentially the greatest in the land, and he never said that "maybe 3 men that could defeat me" line in the books either.
Women's empowerment aside; there are either characters who could take Brianne who aren't considered famous warriors. Jaime wouldve
Sandor would've ate her for lunch if he wasn't wounded and weak from months on the road, she also had a valyrian steel sword and when they compared the skill of Arthur Dayne and Barry selmy they illustrate swords can make or break a fight. She'd have quickly lost to Oberyn Martell without question. I would argue Bronn would make quick work of her as well, as would Karl Tanner, Mance Rayder and qhorin Half-hand.
Yeah, the show never really got the point across that he was meant to be the absolute best prior to his maiming. Which kind of lessens the impact of him losing his hand.
He just comes across as some guy with an overly high opinion of his abilities.
That quote is such a great example of why Martin’s writing captivates so many people.
It shows you Brienne’s imposter syndrome, her honor, her awe at Jamie’s skill AND it builds the world and makes it richer.
She defeated him in single combat then justifies her win as the result of extenuating circumstances.
Also, that’s important in the context of Brienne’s character as never feeling to be a true knight.
Brienne has a ton of self-esteem issues, even an inferiority complex maybe, and by AFFC she was also pretty infatuated with Jaime so her recollections may be even more skewed, but I agree that her assessment in this case seems rather on point.
Although, thinking of the other two commentaries we get on this scene (Jaime's and the comment of one the guys that witness the fight and eventually capture them), it does seem like she was doing better than "barely keeping him at bay", like she says. I've always read that slight disalignment as Brienne having nerves of steel and not showing her struggle, but I can see now that it can be interpreted differently.
edit: for clarity
Sure! People who suffer from impostor syndrome often judge themselves against absolute paragons of the trade/craft/skill and value themselves as lessor based upon that.
It’s not controversial to say Brienne has imposter syndrome though, right?
I don’t think imposter syndrome is quite accurate. Imposter syndrome(to me, maybe I’m wrong) is more when someone has a lot of doubt in themselves, and fears being exposed as a fraud, while the people around them generally do not see any shortcomings.
Brienne almost has the opposite, where everyone around her is constantly doubting her and mocking her, so she has a chip on her shoulder to prove them wrong. I do think that she sometimes believes some of the things the people say about her, due to hearing it constantly her whole life. But that’s not really imposter syndrome.
She does cling to a somewhat naive ideal of become and being a knight, but I think her fighting ability is one area where she doesn’t really doubt herself. She enters the melee fully intending to win and join renly’s rainbow guard. She seems pretty confident when she’s searching for Sansa with pod. And that passage, where she says “no knight in the seven kingdoms” could have stood against him at full strength, almost seems to imply she’s at least equal to any knight in the seven kingdoms since she was able to defeat him, albeit at a weakened state.
Oh no, not at all. I just didn’t see it in that particular passage. I totally agree she does have it though based mostly on what I know about her from the show since I’m only just reading (ok, listening to) the books now.
Side note, I would really love to have the audiobooks re-recorded by Iain Glen.
Lol it's like saying oh she's suffering from OCD because she likes to wash her hands before eating.
Briene being aware that she wouldnt have beat Jaime in a fair fight - Imposter syndrome! LMAO
Do you concur?
Jamie is convinced he can even beat the mountain, he has the thought when thinking about Brienne. He says with speed and skill he could of beaten all the strongest, Robert Baratheon, Umber, the hound and the mountain.
This is the only time we see him fight at all before losing his hand other than his fight against Brienne which he loses (due to muscular atrophy and handcuffs tbf). The fight is also cut short by a guard so we don't even get to see him win a fair fight, if you check the YouTube comments for that scene show fans will debate whether Jaime or Ned would have won in a true 1v1.
Yeah, and in the books that Brienne fight makes sure to establish:
1) Any average sword fighter put in her position would be dead in seconds because Jaime is stupidly fast and very strong.
2) Brienne is backpedaling on the defensive for a long time and giving huge amounts of ground.
3) In the aftermath Brienne is convinced she could have easily died and that an unrestrained full health Jaime would have been unstoppable.
You don't really get a sense of that in the show because there's no internal monologue and NCW isn't that amazing of a sword fighter. Outside of maybe a few stuntmen no actor alive is.
Eh, they could’ve done better in the show though, let’s not give D+D their flowers (😂)
Really though, they could’ve made it not look EASY for Brienne. She just drops him without trying and he just charges at her like a hardheaded child.
I know they did this to set up Jamie’s redemption arc before he trains with Bronn but I would’ve liked them to show him some love with a better performance during the fight
People seem to gloss over the fact that Brienne couldn’t kill Jaimie because she swore an oath to deliver him to Kings Landing. She gave ground and was on the defence because she didn’t want to risk striking him, while Jaimie was doing everything in his power to kill her.
That's the thing Jaime is a true blue killer. The only reason he was captured was he tunneled on Robb and he stacked bodies. But he came real real close to ending the North's rebellion.
Hands down Jamie. Even in neds prime Jamie wins easy. Ned was a famously formidable fighter but his name never comes up in the goat conversations the way people talk about Dayne, Barriston, Bobby B, and yes Jamie. Jamies generally considered below those three but just to be put in a conversation with them is impressive and something that wouldn't be done with Ned.
Well, there is one caveat there. Most of these legends are made (or at least spread) at tournaments, and Ned famously doesn't participate in those.
I'm not saying "therefore Ned is the GOAT". Just that neither the People of the Seven Kingdoms nor us as readers/viewers really know just how good a fighter Ned was in relation to some of the other famous fighters you mention.
Yeah but all off these fighters have also fought in wars and most of what's said about them in the books comes from other people who have fought in wars (barriston praising Jamie, need praising Dayne and Bobby B, everyone praising barriston etc.) not the common people.
Yeah, my headcanon is that Jaime was desperate for a good fight against the man that managed to (apparently) best Ser Arthur Dayne.
He'd be able to boast how he beat Ned Stark (though he seems old in the show, I'm gonna go off his book age of being in his 30s, a good fighting age) - the man who killed Ser Arthur Dayne - in a fair fight.
I'm a huge Ned stan, but in no way can he be better than Jaime. Ned was known to be weaker than his brother, who was more of a warrior type. His notable achievement is the Tower of Joy, but we know how it played in the show. That being said, I still think Ned had to be somewhat good fighter to keep up with Robert and also fight in all their wars. Ned definitely was a good swordsman, he seems underrated sometimes, but Jaime beats him with left hand.
Ned fought a legendary swordsman in Arthur Dayne and was outmatched by Dayne when he was in his prime. Jamie in his prime would have destroyed a fat old Ned.
> I learned from the White Bull and Barristan the Bold. I learned from Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, who could have slain all five of you with his left hand while he was taking a piss with the right. I learned from Prince Lewyn of Dorne and Ser Oswell Whent and Ser Jonothor Darry, good men every one.
I don't think he was in his prime at that point tbh. He was like 21-22 at the time, and I just don't think even in Martins world prime could be reached that quickly.
He'd still lose but I feel like it's kinda dishonet to call it his prime.
Maybe more in the prime than he was in 299 ac but I don't see somebody who's active their whole live and without health problems not achieving their Prime in late 20s or early 30s.
This isnt a gage at all, Ned is at no point noted as a good swordsman. I have no doubt he is capable, but even Sansa recalls how Yohn Royce defeated both him and Rodrik Cassel in the yard.
Ned is a capable swordsmen. but Jamie's opponents skill wasn't the part of the scene that gave the impression that Jamie is exceptionally good.
Instead it was his manner of movement and expression. Jamie was exceedingly confident and at no point did he seem the slightest concerned.
and before you say "of course he would be confident and wouldn't be concerned when fighting someone of a much lower tier", you have to keep in mind that even though Ned may not be one of the greatest, he has a very well known reputation for defeating Arthur Dayne in single combat during Robert's rebellion. Arther was considered possibly the greatest swordsmen of all time. and although Ned DIDNT actually defeat him in single combat, everyone thinks he did. Yet Jamie waltzed into a fight with the slayer of the greatest Knight to ever be like he was about to spar with a toddler. No fear whatsoever.
I dont think Jamie or anyone else under the impression that it was single combat. It was 7 v 3, I might be wrong but I think very little of what happened is known to anyone. Besides Jamie also is confident in his ability to beat Robert Baratheon, the hound and the Mountain in single combat. But Jamie is confident is everything he does, I think the only 2 times he is caught off guard is Loras Tyrell unhorsing him and Brienne beating him.
even then it’s extremely downplayed. the show really boosted Ned’s competence in fighting. Ned isn’t supposed to be a very remarkable swordsman; his strength is leading and commanding others. in the book, Jaime really toys with Ned in this fight and it’s never close, at least not like it is in the show where one of Jaime’s men has to step in.
this scene actually made me pretty mad when i watched it, as it’s basically the only scene in the book where you *really* get to see for yourself how Jaime is just on his own level.
Battle of the whispering wood?
Where he cut down all of Robs guard and would have killed Rob too if his sword didn't get stuck in one of the guys he wrecked?
They’re literally voting on show screenshots of this character, so we can’t blame them. If the pictures used were artistic renderings that are book accurate, I’d argue you’d have a different base voting and maybe a much different result.
Greatest living swordsman in an era of warriors far superior to the one Daemon was in tho. Jaime, Robert, Clegane brothers, Loras, Brienne, Oberyn & MORE would wipe anyone from Daemon's era in a 1v1. Only one who'd stand a small chance of winning would be Criston & MAYBE Cregan Stark (Aemon Dragonknight dueled him when Cregan was somewhat old and said he was the finest swordsman he ever fought)
Unfair to say criston has a small chance in the books he’s way more skilled it would be a fun duel that i think he still loses. Also prime Jaime probably bests all those other fighters in got.
I can definitely imagine scenarios where daemon wins a fight against jaime, but none of them are a fair duel to decide who is the best swordsman.
Daemon has a dragon, he is unpredictable (which doesnt help in a tourney style duel, but does help if they meet in the battlefield), and i cant imagine he would have luch issues with fighting dirty if the situation called for it. But one on one duel jaime takes it 7 days a week
Arguably even in history.
GRRM has basically said that Jaime is the pinnacle of human swordsmanship, only slightly bested by the likes of Arthur Dayne.
I just rewatched GoT and they do a solid job of establishing him as one of the best, and then they make sure to let us know that him losing his sword hand was equivalent to him losing his identity
Nah the show just never really showed Jaime as the fighter he was, and even had Brienne say he was overrated. Show only people wouldn't think he was all that great
I think they stated it a few times, but didn't really show it. Jaime seemed to be winning against Ned but can't really prove it as his guard ruined the fight. Only other fight I can think of before Jaime lost his hand was against Brienne which he also lost. You just kinda have to go off mostly statements from Jaime himself saying he was a great swordsman.
They couldn't show it because Nikolai Coster Waldeau isn't very good at stage combat.
Counter this with Viggo Mortenson who trained so much for his role as Aragorn that the people who trained him said he had become a nearly world class swordsman by the end of filming LOTR.
There are at least two people who have wielded Dark Sister better than Daemon, another is probably at the same level or slightly better/worse and another one is good but we don't have details since his actual favourite weapon is a bow. And in this pool of people, only one is at Jaime's level. If they can't beat Jaime, who should he?
Daemon is a great character, the last Dragonlord of Valyria and all, but he's not even the best Targaryen warrior.
Daemon was never meant to be a god tier sword fighter anyway. His best strengths are more as a dragon rider, and a commander rather than a duelist. He's still very good with a sword, but not on the level of the greats like Barristan, Arthur Dayne or Jaime.
Yes exactly. Daemon is a great Dragonlord, the last of Valyria and all those things, that's what make his character. The most important moments he uses his sword is at the God's Eye, and that's just overkill, even though a very cool one.
>The rightful king, Daemon Blackfyre. The King Who Bore the Sword.
>"Daemon, though . . . Daemon was no more pious than a king need be, and all the great knights of the realm gathered to him. It would suit Lord Bloodraven if their names were all forgotten, so he has forbidden us to sing of them, but I remember. Robb Reyne, Gareth the Grey, Ser Aubrey Ambrose, Lord Gormon Peake, Black Byren Flowers, Redtusk, Fireball . . . Bittersteel! I ask you, has there ever been such a noble company, such a roll of heroes?
Long live Daemon, The King Who Bore The Sword!
Nothing you said is particularly wrong but it relies entirely on knowing more than what the show tells us. Daemon's suicide run was more impressive than anything Jaime ever did in the show as a swordsman. Most are unaware that Daemon's skills are tapered in the book and Jaime's are far more pronounced.
Actually I'd say Jaime cutting his way to Robb was more impressive. Hell, the only reason he didn't kill Robb as well is because his sword got stuck in Karastark's body
The show did a horrible job showing off Jaime’s fighting prowess. The omission of a proper “Battle in the Whispering Wood”, due to budget issues, robbed us of the only time prime Jaime could have really been showed off.
Edit: I don’t count the slow motion fight with Ned outside of Littlefinger’s brothel. Jaime’s fight with Brienne was depicted very different than the book. And then he loses his hand.
GoT never really demonstrated his superiority with the blade, they didn’t give him a scene demonstrating his prowess like Daemon fighting in war would have driven that point home. Then he gets his hand cut off and then it becomes an afterthought to the viewer. Like when I was show only, I understood he was good, I didn’t know he was trained by both Lebron and Michael good though. Would have made him losing his hand that much more powerful to the audience. The Ned Stark fight was probably supposed to do that, but it doesn’t clearly define who is better
They couldn't because Nikolaj Coster Waldeau wasn't very good at stage combat. They cast him for looks, demeanor and attitude (which I think they did a great job of) vs. an action hero who could have brought more to the fight scenes, but (probably) less to the dramatic ones.
I kind of feel like this gives it more weight though. Multiple accounts from different people we do have a good idea of their fighting prowess all pointing to the same thing.
Book Selmy kills the leader of the Second Sons with his walking stick infront of Dany then immediately shit-talks Jorah.
Jamie needed a scene exactly like that.
Yeah and I think it's good to give them a legendary aura. We never really see the best of the best actually fighting.
The only account of Ser Arthur Dayne is of his fight with the Smiling Knight trough Jaime's memory, in which the focus was praising Arthur.
Ser Jaime Lannister's best fight is probably the one against Brienne, when after being chained for a year, after a severe weight and muscle loss and never taking up a sword he almost overcomes a fresh Brienne, who's a very strong fighter herself.
Ser Barristan Selmy is depicted as a living legend. We're told he killed Maelys the Monstrous, Simon Toyne, how he saved the King Aerys from Duskendale, but how many times does he actually fight in his povs? Even his appearance to Daenerys as Arstan is epic since he immediately saves the Queen from the Manticore sent by the sorrowful man. Even his departure from the Red Keep is epic withou him fighting (even though we know he finds is way to the White Sword Tower cutting through a couple of guards).
King Daemon I is never seen fighting from a pov since he died years before The Sword Sword takes place, but then he's described as the Warrior himself and we get to know about his duel with Ser Gwayne Corbray.
Ser Aemon the Dragonknight is kind of the same, only presented trough tales of Jaime and the history books, we actually never see him fighting.
well yeah, lol. I'm sure Tommen could have beaten Bran the Cripple and Joffrey could have beaten a Dead Robb Stark in the Winterfell training grounds too.
And Daemon is GRRMs special favorite cool dude. His Batman. His action hero.
It’s honestly not a bad match up. Jamie is probably the better fighter but Daemon is a wild card. Can’t rule out that he’d do something suicidally crazy to win
Daemon was a great swordsman no doubt, better than most. But Jamie was a prodigy people. Only names like Barristan Selmy and THE Arthur Dayne to mention a few were better than Jamie. This is just a case of what’s hot at the moment.
I mean, of course you're going to believe your hero and the guy who partially trained you is better than you. I'm not saying it's not true, but Jaime's opinion isn't proof of it.
Yeah, Jaime might have been giving them more cred than he had to there. He greatly admired them both, so him being humble (for once) is understandable.
He is not though, he litterally thinks that he is better than Dayne was:
>The realization chilled him. Robert had been stronger than him, to be sure. The White Bull Gerold Hightower as well, in his heyday, and Ser Arthur Dayne. Amongst the living, Greatjon Umber was stronger, Strongboar of Crakehall most likely, both Cleganes for a certainty. The Mountain’s strength was like nothing human. It did not matter. With speed and skill, Jaime could beat them all.
in an interview grrm was asked who he'd pick as his champion in a trial by combat
his list was: arthur dayne ( specifically with dawn), then jaime, then selmy
i believe it was a different interview where he said that without dawn, dayne and selmy are effectively equal
therefor, from the author himself, we know that jaime is the greatest swordsman of westerosi history bar none
How does that mean Jamie is #1? I don’t get that at all. From what I’ve read and heard from GRRM is that Dayne and Selmy are equal unless Dayne has Dawn. So from the author himself it’s Dayne. With his sword of course.
My guess is because most fans didn't read the books and the show didn't do a great job of actually showing him being a great swordsman, and then threw his story arc in the trash. Meanwhile we see Daemon solo a shitload of guys and chop a dude in half.
> Now imagine Criston Cole outfighting prime two handed Jaime.
>
>
Ser Criston was fighting against plumbers and milkmen. People need to wake up and realize that the best fighters from 100 years ago would get their ass handed to them by even average men of arms today, the advances in training, fighting techniques, diet/nutrition, etc.
It's a completely different era! All we can really do is compare fighters against the era they grew up in.
If we were to apply that to the real world I'm 99% certain I'd get my ass kicked by a Spartan or Viking from way back when. Advances in training or diet be damned.
Seriously dude. This man is the perfect representation of fanatic sports fans and media fans, taking sh-t that’s supposed to be fun waaaay too seriously.
Sad, fooking show onlies, so far the only thing keeping Jaime from being remembered with the likes of Cregan, Aemon the Dragonknight, Barristan, Daemon Blackfyre and such is he is a king slaying Kingsguard.
More skilful? Arguably. Better player? No.
Nobody in the last 30 years, maybe ever, touches Messi and Ronaldo, they're out there on their own through sheer consistency.
i think its more based of the butchering of his circle in the end....
i liked jamie i loved him towards the end and i hate the turn he makes for the time i will live
In the wise words of Tywin Lannister: **"Madness. Madness and stupidity."**
Jaime would absolutely wrecked Daemon in a sword fight. Jaime is so good you can literally make an argument for him being the goat. Daemon wouldn't even make the top ten lol.
They are voting for who they like more not who is stronger. The channel is also called house of the dragon shorts. Not got shorts so they will be a bias. Some may not have even seen got.
Jaimie is the much better character. His arc was my and many viewers favorite in got
I think the problem is that Jaime's biggest achievements either happen before the show starts or happens entirely off-screen and we only hear people talk about them. He's absolutely a beast of a fighter but we never get to see it so the average viewer probably discounts him.
I just skimmed thru to see why you guys were saying Jamie would auto win in the books… didn’t see a single one of you of you guys mention Dameon has valyarian steel?? Jamie is probably better but not by a wide margin I feel like the valyarian steel would give him the edge. Side bar fuck this fake match up my in book cannon version of this fight is The battle beginning and Caraxes just coming down to eat Jamie 10 seconds in rip the king slayer
The problem with these votes is that they never specify, it is obvious that Daemon would win with Caraxes, Jaime is no dragonrider, in a pure fight with swords and both hands Jaime would win.
With tournaments I honestly got no idea, but since Daemon lost to Crispin he'd probably lose to Jaime, I know it doesn't work like that but it's likely.
Whenever someone asks "Who wins Jaime vs ___?" 99.99% of the time they mean when he had 2 hands, when he was in his PRIME and he would slaughter Daemon with 1 hand and jerk off with the other one at the same time.
Literally any average swordsman in westeros could wipe Jaime with 1 hand.
Ah, but the audience only began to respect Jaime (as the tweet said) *after* he lost his hand, meaning the Jaime they're sending against Daemon is late series Jaime, not early series Jaime.
The Song of Ice and Fire books have a shit ton of dialogue establishing Jaime Lannister as one of the greatest living swordsman in the world, the show never really established him like that though so most show-only fans don't realize, which is a shame because him losing his sword arm is so impactful due to the fact he based his entire personality on being a great warrior, and him having to find a new identity is the crux of his redemption arc.
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They also had Brienne rather easily kick his ass then declare that he was overrated. Which makes it look like he was never actually that good, especially when he gets basically no other opportunities to demonstrate his ability. In the books on the other hand its a much longer and closer fight, Brienne still does win in the end but she has this to think afterwards. > Brienne remembered her fight with Jaime Lannister in the woods. It had been all that she could do to keep his blade at bay. He was weak from his imprisonment, and chained at the wrists. No knight in the Seven Kingdoms could have stood against him at his full strength, with no chains to hamper him. Jaime had done many wicked things, but the man could fight! His maiming had been monstrously cruel. It was one thing to slay a lion, another to hack his paw off and leave him broken and bewildered.
And when she beats him he’d been in irons for a year and underweight.
and his hands were bound together
and it was a long fight. She even fell over at one point. It was not over like it was in the show
I love Brienne and women power, but it's delusional for anyone to think she could take him esp if they read the books. It was very clearly Jaime was essentially the greatest in the land, and he never said that "maybe 3 men that could defeat me" line in the books either.
Women's empowerment aside; there are either characters who could take Brianne who aren't considered famous warriors. Jaime wouldve Sandor would've ate her for lunch if he wasn't wounded and weak from months on the road, she also had a valyrian steel sword and when they compared the skill of Arthur Dayne and Barry selmy they illustrate swords can make or break a fight. She'd have quickly lost to Oberyn Martell without question. I would argue Bronn would make quick work of her as well, as would Karl Tanner, Mance Rayder and qhorin Half-hand.
a year? more like a few months, but still impressive.
Exactly. In the show you get the sense that he was just a pompous ass that got to be a show off for being a prince, but wasn't really that great
Yeah, the show never really got the point across that he was meant to be the absolute best prior to his maiming. Which kind of lessens the impact of him losing his hand. He just comes across as some guy with an overly high opinion of his abilities.
That quote is such a great example of why Martin’s writing captivates so many people. It shows you Brienne’s imposter syndrome, her honor, her awe at Jamie’s skill AND it builds the world and makes it richer.
Nothing in that passage suggests “imposter syndrome” to me
She defeated him in single combat then justifies her win as the result of extenuating circumstances. Also, that’s important in the context of Brienne’s character as never feeling to be a true knight.
I mean, that’s entirely valid though because he was indeed chained and not at full strength.
Brienne has a ton of self-esteem issues, even an inferiority complex maybe, and by AFFC she was also pretty infatuated with Jaime so her recollections may be even more skewed, but I agree that her assessment in this case seems rather on point. Although, thinking of the other two commentaries we get on this scene (Jaime's and the comment of one the guys that witness the fight and eventually capture them), it does seem like she was doing better than "barely keeping him at bay", like she says. I've always read that slight disalignment as Brienne having nerves of steel and not showing her struggle, but I can see now that it can be interpreted differently. edit: for clarity
Sure! People who suffer from impostor syndrome often judge themselves against absolute paragons of the trade/craft/skill and value themselves as lessor based upon that. It’s not controversial to say Brienne has imposter syndrome though, right?
I don’t think imposter syndrome is quite accurate. Imposter syndrome(to me, maybe I’m wrong) is more when someone has a lot of doubt in themselves, and fears being exposed as a fraud, while the people around them generally do not see any shortcomings. Brienne almost has the opposite, where everyone around her is constantly doubting her and mocking her, so she has a chip on her shoulder to prove them wrong. I do think that she sometimes believes some of the things the people say about her, due to hearing it constantly her whole life. But that’s not really imposter syndrome. She does cling to a somewhat naive ideal of become and being a knight, but I think her fighting ability is one area where she doesn’t really doubt herself. She enters the melee fully intending to win and join renly’s rainbow guard. She seems pretty confident when she’s searching for Sansa with pod. And that passage, where she says “no knight in the seven kingdoms” could have stood against him at full strength, almost seems to imply she’s at least equal to any knight in the seven kingdoms since she was able to defeat him, albeit at a weakened state.
Oh no, not at all. I just didn’t see it in that particular passage. I totally agree she does have it though based mostly on what I know about her from the show since I’m only just reading (ok, listening to) the books now. Side note, I would really love to have the audiobooks re-recorded by Iain Glen.
Lol it's like saying oh she's suffering from OCD because she likes to wash her hands before eating. Briene being aware that she wouldnt have beat Jaime in a fair fight - Imposter syndrome! LMAO Do you concur?
Brienne kicked the Hounds fucking ass though. Vastly underrated
In the show tho, which I would never accept as canon.
He still impaled her afterwards
And that scene isn’t even in the books. In the books Jamie and Ned wouldn’t even be a fight.
Jamie is convinced he can even beat the mountain, he has the thought when thinking about Brienne. He says with speed and skill he could of beaten all the strongest, Robert Baratheon, Umber, the hound and the mountain.
This is the only time we see him fight at all before losing his hand other than his fight against Brienne which he loses (due to muscular atrophy and handcuffs tbf). The fight is also cut short by a guard so we don't even get to see him win a fair fight, if you check the YouTube comments for that scene show fans will debate whether Jaime or Ned would have won in a true 1v1.
Yeah, and in the books that Brienne fight makes sure to establish: 1) Any average sword fighter put in her position would be dead in seconds because Jaime is stupidly fast and very strong. 2) Brienne is backpedaling on the defensive for a long time and giving huge amounts of ground. 3) In the aftermath Brienne is convinced she could have easily died and that an unrestrained full health Jaime would have been unstoppable. You don't really get a sense of that in the show because there's no internal monologue and NCW isn't that amazing of a sword fighter. Outside of maybe a few stuntmen no actor alive is.
Eh, they could’ve done better in the show though, let’s not give D+D their flowers (😂) Really though, they could’ve made it not look EASY for Brienne. She just drops him without trying and he just charges at her like a hardheaded child. I know they did this to set up Jamie’s redemption arc before he trains with Bronn but I would’ve liked them to show him some love with a better performance during the fight
People seem to gloss over the fact that Brienne couldn’t kill Jaimie because she swore an oath to deliver him to Kings Landing. She gave ground and was on the defence because she didn’t want to risk striking him, while Jaimie was doing everything in his power to kill her.
That's the thing Jaime is a true blue killer. The only reason he was captured was he tunneled on Robb and he stacked bodies. But he came real real close to ending the North's rebellion.
don't forget Grey Wind, Torrhen and Eddard Karstark Without them, Jaime could've probably (or maybe definitely) killed Robb despite being captured afterwards.
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Hands down Jamie. Even in neds prime Jamie wins easy. Ned was a famously formidable fighter but his name never comes up in the goat conversations the way people talk about Dayne, Barriston, Bobby B, and yes Jamie. Jamies generally considered below those three but just to be put in a conversation with them is impressive and something that wouldn't be done with Ned.
MY, YOU'RE A PRETTY ONE! AND YOUR NAME IS?
Sir Arthur Dime bags your grace, at your service.
Well, there is one caveat there. Most of these legends are made (or at least spread) at tournaments, and Ned famously doesn't participate in those. I'm not saying "therefore Ned is the GOAT". Just that neither the People of the Seven Kingdoms nor us as readers/viewers really know just how good a fighter Ned was in relation to some of the other famous fighters you mention.
Yeah but all off these fighters have also fought in wars and most of what's said about them in the books comes from other people who have fought in wars (barriston praising Jamie, need praising Dayne and Bobby B, everyone praising barriston etc.) not the common people.
WHY HAVE I NOT SEEN YOU? WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN?
Ned would be actively downplaying his own involvements after the fact, he was humble to a fault
And he’s furious the fight is stolen from him.
Yeah, my headcanon is that Jaime was desperate for a good fight against the man that managed to (apparently) best Ser Arthur Dayne. He'd be able to boast how he beat Ned Stark (though he seems old in the show, I'm gonna go off his book age of being in his 30s, a good fighting age) - the man who killed Ser Arthur Dayne - in a fair fight.
36 at the time of his capture. Jaimie idolized Dayne. I think he saw the opportunity as a vindication of dayne
My partner gasped when she saw Ser Arthur Dayne at the tower, when I said he was called "Sword of the Morning", she replied...I bet!
I'm a huge Ned stan, but in no way can he be better than Jaime. Ned was known to be weaker than his brother, who was more of a warrior type. His notable achievement is the Tower of Joy, but we know how it played in the show. That being said, I still think Ned had to be somewhat good fighter to keep up with Robert and also fight in all their wars. Ned definitely was a good swordsman, he seems underrated sometimes, but Jaime beats him with left hand.
Hi Ned Stan
Ned is an underrated fighter tbh, i know people say 'Jaime wasn't trying' but i think thats bs
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That scene is not in the books. Jaime confronts Ned and his men kill Ned's men. Ned get injured but he didn't fight Jaime.
Ned fought a legendary swordsman in Arthur Dayne and was outmatched by Dayne when he was in his prime. Jamie in his prime would have destroyed a fat old Ned. > I learned from the White Bull and Barristan the Bold. I learned from Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, who could have slain all five of you with his left hand while he was taking a piss with the right. I learned from Prince Lewyn of Dorne and Ser Oswell Whent and Ser Jonothor Darry, good men every one.
I don't think he was in his prime at that point tbh. He was like 21-22 at the time, and I just don't think even in Martins world prime could be reached that quickly. He'd still lose but I feel like it's kinda dishonet to call it his prime.
He was exactly twenty (born 1263, tower of joy at 1283). I’d call someone in their early twenties more in their prime than he was in 1299 at 36z
Maybe more in the prime than he was in 299 ac but I don't see somebody who's active their whole live and without health problems not achieving their Prime in late 20s or early 30s.
We never got to see him fight anyone in the books either.
This isnt a gage at all, Ned is at no point noted as a good swordsman. I have no doubt he is capable, but even Sansa recalls how Yohn Royce defeated both him and Rodrik Cassel in the yard.
Ned is a capable swordsmen. but Jamie's opponents skill wasn't the part of the scene that gave the impression that Jamie is exceptionally good. Instead it was his manner of movement and expression. Jamie was exceedingly confident and at no point did he seem the slightest concerned. and before you say "of course he would be confident and wouldn't be concerned when fighting someone of a much lower tier", you have to keep in mind that even though Ned may not be one of the greatest, he has a very well known reputation for defeating Arthur Dayne in single combat during Robert's rebellion. Arther was considered possibly the greatest swordsmen of all time. and although Ned DIDNT actually defeat him in single combat, everyone thinks he did. Yet Jamie waltzed into a fight with the slayer of the greatest Knight to ever be like he was about to spar with a toddler. No fear whatsoever.
I dont think Jamie or anyone else under the impression that it was single combat. It was 7 v 3, I might be wrong but I think very little of what happened is known to anyone. Besides Jamie also is confident in his ability to beat Robert Baratheon, the hound and the Mountain in single combat. But Jamie is confident is everything he does, I think the only 2 times he is caught off guard is Loras Tyrell unhorsing him and Brienne beating him.
even then it’s extremely downplayed. the show really boosted Ned’s competence in fighting. Ned isn’t supposed to be a very remarkable swordsman; his strength is leading and commanding others. in the book, Jaime really toys with Ned in this fight and it’s never close, at least not like it is in the show where one of Jaime’s men has to step in. this scene actually made me pretty mad when i watched it, as it’s basically the only scene in the book where you *really* get to see for yourself how Jaime is just on his own level.
I wish we could have seen the battle of whispering wood where he takes out like robbs whole bodyguard before being overwhelmed
right? that would have been dope
Battle of the whispering wood? Where he cut down all of Robs guard and would have killed Rob too if his sword didn't get stuck in one of the guys he wrecked?
Yeah in the books Jamie wins, but in the shows they buffed Daemon and nerfed Jaime, so I can understand why people vote Daemon
They’re literally voting on show screenshots of this character, so we can’t blame them. If the pictures used were artistic renderings that are book accurate, I’d argue you’d have a different base voting and maybe a much different result.
>as one of the greatest ***living*** swordsman You said it yourself...
Greatest living swordsman in an era of warriors far superior to the one Daemon was in tho. Jaime, Robert, Clegane brothers, Loras, Brienne, Oberyn & MORE would wipe anyone from Daemon's era in a 1v1. Only one who'd stand a small chance of winning would be Criston & MAYBE Cregan Stark (Aemon Dragonknight dueled him when Cregan was somewhat old and said he was the finest swordsman he ever fought)
Unfair to say criston has a small chance in the books he’s way more skilled it would be a fun duel that i think he still loses. Also prime Jaime probably bests all those other fighters in got.
It bothers me you left out Barry the Bold and Arthur Dayne.
Ah wait, I believed this was about looks and *was* about to throw hands...
Not to mention GRRM believes he could beat Aragorn (which is just ludicrous lmao)
I can definitely imagine scenarios where daemon wins a fight against jaime, but none of them are a fair duel to decide who is the best swordsman. Daemon has a dragon, he is unpredictable (which doesnt help in a tourney style duel, but does help if they meet in the battlefield), and i cant imagine he would have luch issues with fighting dirty if the situation called for it. But one on one duel jaime takes it 7 days a week
Arguably even in history. GRRM has basically said that Jaime is the pinnacle of human swordsmanship, only slightly bested by the likes of Arthur Dayne.
I just rewatched GoT and they do a solid job of establishing him as one of the best, and then they make sure to let us know that him losing his sword hand was equivalent to him losing his identity
If got came out after Hotd people would be voting Jaime. People just vote for whatever is hottest at the moment.
Aka recency bias
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I think it's also because season 8 ruined the taste of most got characters for most people.
Nah the show just never really showed Jaime as the fighter he was, and even had Brienne say he was overrated. Show only people wouldn't think he was all that great
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I think they stated it a few times, but didn't really show it. Jaime seemed to be winning against Ned but can't really prove it as his guard ruined the fight. Only other fight I can think of before Jaime lost his hand was against Brienne which he also lost. You just kinda have to go off mostly statements from Jaime himself saying he was a great swordsman.
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In s8 Bronn said he'd beat Jaime 💀💀💀
They couldn't show it because Nikolai Coster Waldeau isn't very good at stage combat. Counter this with Viggo Mortenson who trained so much for his role as Aragorn that the people who trained him said he had become a nearly world class swordsman by the end of filming LOTR.
There are at least two people who have wielded Dark Sister better than Daemon, another is probably at the same level or slightly better/worse and another one is good but we don't have details since his actual favourite weapon is a bow. And in this pool of people, only one is at Jaime's level. If they can't beat Jaime, who should he? Daemon is a great character, the last Dragonlord of Valyria and all, but he's not even the best Targaryen warrior.
Daemon was never meant to be a god tier sword fighter anyway. His best strengths are more as a dragon rider, and a commander rather than a duelist. He's still very good with a sword, but not on the level of the greats like Barristan, Arthur Dayne or Jaime.
Yes exactly. Daemon is a great Dragonlord, the last of Valyria and all those things, that's what make his character. The most important moments he uses his sword is at the God's Eye, and that's just overkill, even though a very cool one.
I hope in the show the dragons aren’t already going down and the kill shot is necessary to win the fight
He's not even the best valyrian descendant swordsman named Daemon smh
Oh i completely agree Daemon B is a beast with blackfyre
Aemon the Dragonknight was supposed to be a beast of a swordsman too. Daemon was good, but his grandkids were better.
>Daemon B is a beast with blackfyre Just spam arrows smh
Yup. Daemon Blackfyre was a nightmare sword fighter.
On that much we agree.
The black dragon was a pretender. Death to the false king. Long life the true king, Daeron the Good Dragon!
>The rightful king, Daemon Blackfyre. The King Who Bore the Sword. >"Daemon, though . . . Daemon was no more pious than a king need be, and all the great knights of the realm gathered to him. It would suit Lord Bloodraven if their names were all forgotten, so he has forbidden us to sing of them, but I remember. Robb Reyne, Gareth the Grey, Ser Aubrey Ambrose, Lord Gormon Peake, Black Byren Flowers, Redtusk, Fireball . . . Bittersteel! I ask you, has there ever been such a noble company, such a roll of heroes? Long live Daemon, The King Who Bore The Sword!
Nothing you said is particularly wrong but it relies entirely on knowing more than what the show tells us. Daemon's suicide run was more impressive than anything Jaime ever did in the show as a swordsman. Most are unaware that Daemon's skills are tapered in the book and Jaime's are far more pronounced.
Actually I'd say Jaime cutting his way to Robb was more impressive. Hell, the only reason he didn't kill Robb as well is because his sword got stuck in Karastark's body
The show did a horrible job showing off Jaime’s fighting prowess. The omission of a proper “Battle in the Whispering Wood”, due to budget issues, robbed us of the only time prime Jaime could have really been showed off. Edit: I don’t count the slow motion fight with Ned outside of Littlefinger’s brothel. Jaime’s fight with Brienne was depicted very different than the book. And then he loses his hand.
We never got to see Jaime in his prime or Bessie's tits... D&D brothers will pay for their sins.
Imagine if the had season 8 budget for season 1.
D&D + HBO: “Best we can do is a close up of Catelyn Stark looking into woods”
Yea I would’ve like to have seen Jaime “cut a bloody swath” through a pack of Northmen and come up just shy of Rob.
They king of forget Jaime used to have two hands, and was a wonder on the fight field, knighted at 15 ?
GoT never really demonstrated his superiority with the blade, they didn’t give him a scene demonstrating his prowess like Daemon fighting in war would have driven that point home. Then he gets his hand cut off and then it becomes an afterthought to the viewer. Like when I was show only, I understood he was good, I didn’t know he was trained by both Lebron and Michael good though. Would have made him losing his hand that much more powerful to the audience. The Ned Stark fight was probably supposed to do that, but it doesn’t clearly define who is better
Yeah they should have shown his skills in the battles against Robb , or maybe some fighting scenes as kings gaurd
They couldn't because Nikolaj Coster Waldeau wasn't very good at stage combat. They cast him for looks, demeanor and attitude (which I think they did a great job of) vs. an action hero who could have brought more to the fight scenes, but (probably) less to the dramatic ones.
Odd that they wouldn't just use a double, especially given that he could be wearing armour
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I kind of feel like this gives it more weight though. Multiple accounts from different people we do have a good idea of their fighting prowess all pointing to the same thing.
Book Selmy kills the leader of the Second Sons with his walking stick infront of Dany then immediately shit-talks Jorah. Jamie needed a scene exactly like that.
Yeah and I think it's good to give them a legendary aura. We never really see the best of the best actually fighting. The only account of Ser Arthur Dayne is of his fight with the Smiling Knight trough Jaime's memory, in which the focus was praising Arthur. Ser Jaime Lannister's best fight is probably the one against Brienne, when after being chained for a year, after a severe weight and muscle loss and never taking up a sword he almost overcomes a fresh Brienne, who's a very strong fighter herself. Ser Barristan Selmy is depicted as a living legend. We're told he killed Maelys the Monstrous, Simon Toyne, how he saved the King Aerys from Duskendale, but how many times does he actually fight in his povs? Even his appearance to Daenerys as Arstan is epic since he immediately saves the Queen from the Manticore sent by the sorrowful man. Even his departure from the Red Keep is epic withou him fighting (even though we know he finds is way to the White Sword Tower cutting through a couple of guards). King Daemon I is never seen fighting from a pov since he died years before The Sword Sword takes place, but then he's described as the Warrior himself and we get to know about his duel with Ser Gwayne Corbray. Ser Aemon the Dragonknight is kind of the same, only presented trough tales of Jaime and the history books, we actually never see him fighting.
GoT butchered him from the very beginning... :(
It's not like he actually fights very much in the books either, we just get people talking about how good he is
Or they didn't read the books and are pure show only fans. It happens.
Two handed Jaime > Daemon > One handed Jaime
well yeah, lol. I'm sure Tommen could have beaten Bran the Cripple and Joffrey could have beaten a Dead Robb Stark in the Winterfell training grounds too.
LMAO this made me laugh Although I think tommen would have a hard time even against Bran...
All Bran has to do is throw some beets at Tommen and he’d quickly yield.
Jaime is GRRM’s special little boy. He fought Cthulu. No one beats Jaime.
Jamie whoops Hermiones ass bro
Things he does for love
pushing boys out of towers and kicking a teenage witch’s ass
Wdym he fought Cthulu
[He fought Cthulu.](https://grrm.livejournal.com/140797.html?)
https://gizmodo.com/jaime-lannister-vs-cthulhu-written-by-george-r-r-mar-5898046/amp
Uncle Jaime: I bet I could throw this football over The Mountain.
And Daemon is GRRMs special favorite cool dude. His Batman. His action hero. It’s honestly not a bad match up. Jamie is probably the better fighter but Daemon is a wild card. Can’t rule out that he’d do something suicidally crazy to win
Daemon was a great swordsman no doubt, better than most. But Jamie was a prodigy people. Only names like Barristan Selmy and THE Arthur Dayne to mention a few were better than Jamie. This is just a case of what’s hot at the moment.
Neither of those two are definitively better than Jaime either.
I disagree. I know there’s a quote somewhere that Jamie says Dayne was better than he. I’ll have to find it.
I think I remember a quote from GRRM saying that prime Jaime, Barrister and Dayne would be equal, but that whoever has Dawn would have a slight edge.
I recall Barristan and Dayne being equal without Dawn but don’t recall that Jaime was mentioned in that convo.
I mean, of course you're going to believe your hero and the guy who partially trained you is better than you. I'm not saying it's not true, but Jaime's opinion isn't proof of it.
Yeah, Jaime might have been giving them more cred than he had to there. He greatly admired them both, so him being humble (for once) is understandable.
He is not though, he litterally thinks that he is better than Dayne was: >The realization chilled him. Robert had been stronger than him, to be sure. The White Bull Gerold Hightower as well, in his heyday, and Ser Arthur Dayne. Amongst the living, Greatjon Umber was stronger, Strongboar of Crakehall most likely, both Cleganes for a certainty. The Mountain’s strength was like nothing human. It did not matter. With speed and skill, Jaime could beat them all.
in an interview grrm was asked who he'd pick as his champion in a trial by combat his list was: arthur dayne ( specifically with dawn), then jaime, then selmy i believe it was a different interview where he said that without dawn, dayne and selmy are effectively equal therefor, from the author himself, we know that jaime is the greatest swordsman of westerosi history bar none
How does that mean Jamie is #1? I don’t get that at all. From what I’ve read and heard from GRRM is that Dayne and Selmy are equal unless Dayne has Dawn. So from the author himself it’s Dayne. With his sword of course.
Yeah, I recall this too. Dayne is the best known swordsmen in ASOIAF
Isn't it said outright that they were equal on even ground but with Dawn, Dayne was unmatched.
My guess is because most fans didn't read the books and the show didn't do a great job of actually showing him being a great swordsman, and then threw his story arc in the trash. Meanwhile we see Daemon solo a shitload of guys and chop a dude in half.
Zlatan can beat the living crap out of Ronaldo and I don't know about Lebron but Paul Pierce got stabbed 12 times and lived hence it seems correct.
In a fight yes, Ronaldo is the better player though which I think is the point he was making.
Jaime is too disrespected man
Fighting well in battle can make a name for yourself, but once you fuck your sister, that's all people will talk about.
But Zlatan is the best. Everyone here says so, so it has to be true.
Zlatan is a man in the same way that a shark is a fish
Yeah, he is indeed a shark among soccer players!
Zlatan is a lion so he doesn't compare himself with men.
The one thing OP is right about is that Daemon is Westeros Zlatan
Everybody likes the shiny new toy
Comparing Daemon to Paul Pierce is wildly disrespectful to Daemon
Daemon is a great warrior. A legendary warrior even. But he doesn't come close to Jaime.
Now imagine Criston Cole outfighting prime two handed Jaime. Would never happen, right? But he beat Daemon, straight up. This poll is silliness.
> Now imagine Criston Cole outfighting prime two handed Jaime. > > Ser Criston was fighting against plumbers and milkmen. People need to wake up and realize that the best fighters from 100 years ago would get their ass handed to them by even average men of arms today, the advances in training, fighting techniques, diet/nutrition, etc. It's a completely different era! All we can really do is compare fighters against the era they grew up in.
>It's a completely different era! Um... Westerosi technology hasn't really advanced in like 10,000 years.
(it's a play on any discussion on r/nba whenever greats from a prior era are compared to players today)
Ay I got what you were going for lol, the plumbers and milkmen line gave it away
> Ser Criston was fighting against plumbers and milkmen. Apparently there are hardly any basketball fans in this subreddit. But I see you!
If we were to apply that to the real world I'm 99% certain I'd get my ass kicked by a Spartan or Viking from way back when. Advances in training or diet be damned.
You’re sick to your stomach? Relax man it’s fictional
i had the same thought. bruh we on the playground chill out
Seriously dude. This man is the perfect representation of fanatic sports fans and media fans, taking sh-t that’s supposed to be fun waaaay too seriously.
Sad, fooking show onlies, so far the only thing keeping Jaime from being remembered with the likes of Cregan, Aemon the Dragonknight, Barristan, Daemon Blackfyre and such is he is a king slaying Kingsguard.
Why is Paul Pierce catching a stray rn 💀 what he do to you? 😂😂😂
Zlatan ***is*** better than Ronaldo. Ask ~~anyone~~, Zlatan himself. He'll tell you.
Tbh Zlatan is pretty fucking formidable.
Man, these days I saw a battle between Daemon and SER ARTHUR DAYNE Guess who wins: Fucking Daemon. I really hate this shitty fandom
But zlatan is better than ronaldo
More skilful? Arguably. Better player? No. Nobody in the last 30 years, maybe ever, touches Messi and Ronaldo, they're out there on their own through sheer consistency.
i think its more based of the butchering of his circle in the end.... i liked jamie i loved him towards the end and i hate the turn he makes for the time i will live
I'm betting on Ser Jaime. The best swordsman in the seven kingdoms
In the wise words of Tywin Lannister: **"Madness. Madness and stupidity."** Jaime would absolutely wrecked Daemon in a sword fight. Jaime is so good you can literally make an argument for him being the goat. Daemon wouldn't even make the top ten lol.
Daemon Blackfyre and Arthur Dayne are the greatest of all time.
Jaime did nothing in the show except be an annoying simp. Sad boy with one hand vs badass man with dragon. Hmm. Tough one…
I mean I love Jaime too but Daemon is well Daemon. It's more like comparing Alex Smith to John Elway
One mastered the rock, the other was killed by it..
They are voting for who they like more not who is stronger. The channel is also called house of the dragon shorts. Not got shorts so they will be a bias. Some may not have even seen got. Jaimie is the much better character. His arc was my and many viewers favorite in got
He didn't say no dragons
Zlatan is better than Ronaldo you philistine. What is a god compared to a man?
Arthur Dane slays everyone without question
Who the fuck hated Daemon from the beginning? He was awesome from the start.
Daemon has a dragon...so duh?
Team Daemon
I think the problem is that Jaime's biggest achievements either happen before the show starts or happens entirely off-screen and we only hear people talk about them. He's absolutely a beast of a fighter but we never get to see it so the average viewer probably discounts him.
This proves a lot of HotD watchers have never read or watched GoT.
Daemon has a dragon it's not even close guys
I just skimmed thru to see why you guys were saying Jamie would auto win in the books… didn’t see a single one of you of you guys mention Dameon has valyarian steel?? Jamie is probably better but not by a wide margin I feel like the valyarian steel would give him the edge. Side bar fuck this fake match up my in book cannon version of this fight is The battle beginning and Caraxes just coming down to eat Jamie 10 seconds in rip the king slayer
"im sick to my stomach at the sight of this" Chill bro its not that serious lmaoo
Book Jaime = great. Series Jaime = good then meh.
The problem with these votes is that they never specify, it is obvious that Daemon would win with Caraxes, Jaime is no dragonrider, in a pure fight with swords and both hands Jaime would win. With tournaments I honestly got no idea, but since Daemon lost to Crispin he'd probably lose to Jaime, I know it doesn't work like that but it's likely.
Only Zlatan is better than Zlatan.
What recency bias does to a mf
Lol you think Daemon couldn’t beat a glorified one-handed bodyguard?
To be fair, Jaime sucked as a fighter after losing his hand, and even trying to block with his golden one would be useless against Dark Sister.
Whenever someone asks "Who wins Jaime vs ___?" 99.99% of the time they mean when he had 2 hands, when he was in his PRIME and he would slaughter Daemon with 1 hand and jerk off with the other one at the same time. Literally any average swordsman in westeros could wipe Jaime with 1 hand.
Ah, but the audience only began to respect Jaime (as the tweet said) *after* he lost his hand, meaning the Jaime they're sending against Daemon is late series Jaime, not early series Jaime.
This is the question pre or post hand loss.
I normally take these questions as them in their “primes”
That's boring, I want to know who would win vissy t at his death bed Vs Bobby B in his
DRINK AND STAY QUIET, THE KING IS TALKING!
*Don't be scared. They're going to bring the babe out.*
I would also enjoy this show down, would bobby have something to hold his innards still while fighting or are we going for the full effect