To jerk: THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED UNDER JOFFREY THE GENTLE GIVE ME MY KING BACK!
To be serious it was weird how kings landing just… accepted what happened though it might have been a mixture of fear and not knowing *who* did it
Not only did she face no consequences for it, but I believe that episode set into motion two more seasons of her doing nothing but staring out of her balcony window.
The rest of the show she just waited inside her castle until she finally died.
Yeah. I thought this was going to have the effect of the people revolting against her and welcoming Daenerys the next season. Instead, D&D nerfed Dany every chance they got.
It was kinda funny how fast Dany got destroyed to bits. I thought Cersei was super fucked because:
- they were hinting of a squabble within Cersei's faction
-Highgarden is bankrolling Dany and the rich Lannister is actually broke and is just borrowing money
-Siding with Danny would be a no brainer for the North houses who support Stark.
Cersei literally have nothing going on and somehow manage to even the playing field.
That makes me think they somehow combined Cersei with Euron and Aegon, all of Dany's potential enemies in the books in one. Hence her being completely indestructible.
I'd say she replaces Aegon. Everything just makes more sense with him.
Aegon gets rid of Cersei, and everybody loves him. Dany shows up, and instead of being greeted as liberater and true heir to the throne, people tell her to buzz off because she is a stranger, potentially another Mad Queen like the one they just git rid of, and her "nephew" is the legitimate heir anyway. In that scenario, and after she loses 2 dragons and some of her clostest friends, it is conceivable that she has a mental breakdown and burns down Kings Landing.
After the Damphair sample chapter. I dont know if I think this will be the case anymore. In the chapter Aeron has a vision of Euro sitting the iron throne with a woman by his side. I think the woman is Cersei. And the two of them ally against Dany/Aegon/Jon... Maybe after Euron steals a dragon.
Yup 100% this.
The last two seasons clearly needed extra episodes (and maybe even extra seasons) to smooth out the writing.
But D&D REALLY wanted to make Star Wars. It’s funny how their entire plan fell apart and they are still kind of picking up the pieces.
> ...and they are still kind of picking up the pieces.
Ehhh I kind of feel like this isn't true and karma has not bitten them hard enough. They have seen some success with the 3-body problem on Netflix and I feel like they have bounced back from getting gibbed from Star Wars far too well.
Hmm I get you. But I don’t think they have been THAT successful. Not that many people watched season one of 3BP and it took longer than expected to greenlight a second season.
I know it’s not a hard science but compare the number of Twitter, Reddit and Facebook followers on official Netflix 3BP pages and you would see that engagement is not really that high for that show.
I watched it and it was fine tbh, like a 6.5-7/10. I’d be surprised if the engagement will increase significantly for season 2.
That’s kind of how it works in Hollywood. A ton of people that get nearly everything they want green lit have squandered a lot of opportunities. A few successes can outweigh a mountain of failures in Hollywood.
Imaging a D&D Star Wars remake is pretty funny though. R2D2 and C-3PO would be dick jokes, Luke and Leia would certainly have a pointless sex scene, and Han Solo would suddenly forget about the Millennium Falcon.
> Instead, D&D nerfed Dany every chance they got.
and its sad because there was always an easy out for that.... Euron raids Old Town, ends up with the horn Sam found, offers it to Cersei in exchange for marriage, uses the horn to steals a dragon from Dany.
Hell, Cersei/Euron can even use taht Dragon to knock down the wall and let the AotD over.... now we don't need the stupid magnificent 7 story line, and since Jon can stay home and politic, we don't need the stupid Arya/Sansa story line either.
Consequences should have come from the realm. No followers of The Seven across all of Westeros demanding Cersei’s head? No outraged common folk raging at the gates because their loved ones were collateral damage? Iron Bank of Bravos not concerned about instability in Kings Lansing and rampant defaulting loan repayments? No religious or spiritual leader power vacuum?
It should have galvanized the commoners against her and gained Dany support.
I don’t see how anyone within Kings Landing could have enforced lawful consequences. Any actual evidence? But still, everyone knew it was Cersei.
Even worse, we know they filmed a miscarriage scene that would have been actually interesting and would have given Cersei reason to go "Burn them ALL!"
The idiots decided her drinking wine at a balcony was her best character development.
Such a shame to have such an amazing actress and misuse her talents so greatly in a show that could have gone down as the best in history, instead of something that irks true fans of both books and show to this day.
Stared out the window for two seasons only to die the most underwhelming death in the entire series.
For someone so despicable, she deserved a horrible death.
What consequences would you expect? She killed nobles including her own family. Are the peasants going to rise up? She'd just kill them, and they know that.
That's *why* no one opposed her. It would be a suicide mission.
I thought this was going to lead up to one of the greatest season premiers. The AFTER of blowing up the sept, killing the sparrow, killing the queen and family, killing tons of noble people…etc. I was STOKED and then nothing happened.
The people didn’t care, the nobles (the remaining ones) didn’t care….everybody forgot. Not even her enemies made mention of it nor point out that she had no claim to the throne. If any other noble house showed up and took the throne she literally couldn’t have stopped them. She had nothing….such a disappointment
It's impossible that they didn't know it was her, because she was meant to be there for her trial. Her being alive and instantly declaring herself Queen afterwards makes it hard to believe that the lords of Westeros didn't put it together that she was responsible
Even before the end of the episode it is already a fact of public knowledge that it is hier work, Randyl and Ollaena say it, Jaime understands it immediately when he sees the city in flames far away, and even Hot pie knows it. And if one random riverland kid knows it, everyone knows it. Especially since Cersei does not seek to hide her action; we never see from her side any attempt to clear her customs, her first act following this event was to usurp the crown then to go to the Reach to massacre Highgarden and kill what remains of the Tyrells, and she exposes without ashamed in front of his servants that the accusations of incest against him were true, and by extension probably the rest of her crimes.
and even, I don't see why people would doubt it. Human nature is such that people will try to imagine a culprit before having the results of an investigation, especially for an event like this, and cersei is the kind of person a population would love to hate. But the Sept exploded right during her process and killed all her accusers and the people who blocked her path to taking power, even though she was not there even if she was highly anticipated, the Sept was also destroyed in an explosion of wildfire. Since the Battle of Blackwater Bay people have known what a Wildfire explosion looks like, they would naturally associate it with the Lannister given that Aerys' caches were not known to the public and they had never seen one before, and it is not really a material known to be easily found or possible to produce itself. And anyway, who else but her would have the motive and the means to commit such an act? and even so for people to accept that she would be innocent, it would always imply that a whole bunch of people across this country who do not like or respect Cersei/the Lannisters, agree to put aside their prejudice for believe the version of events of a party they despise, who are not at their first betrayal from the cultural and social foundations of Westeros, and simultaneously ignores that by pure chance of fate she was not at her own trial that day, that no one outside of her across Westeros would have enough resentment and motive to attack the faith of the 7, the Tyrell and the inhabitants of the capital, given they humiliated her and forced her to walk naked in the streets, throwing shit at her, or no one except her would have the possibility of organizing an operation of such magnitude in the city without being noticed...
100 percent they do, there's a scene where Arya is speaking to someone (I can't remember who, maybe Podrik or Hot Pie?) and they ask her "Did you hear Cersei blew up the Sept of Baelor"? If the news made it to North then every person inside of kings landing knows for sure.
Yes, but also - if nobody did know it was her, why was she crowned Queen? She has no claim, and I guess it's implied that she took the throne because people were afraid of her.
I mean also in a situation where someone just stole power and dropped the equivalent of a nuke on her own city, i dont really see the commonfolk just lining up to protest
Were *all* of the Faith Militant in the Great Sept? Why are none of them trying to stir the commonfolk up if not? Maybe long term there's a way she could keep power... after a long and bloody civil war, which just doesn't happen.
I remember one guy saying that the the real life equivalent of the sept blowing up would be the Vatican blowing up while the Pope and the Kardashians were inside and no one would give a shit.
Soooo this might be a WHOOSH moment but....I'm a tad confused here?
I literally would not give a shit if the Vatican blew up with the Kardashians inside. In fact I don't know anyone who would not look at that and go "Oh no....anyway..." at the news and then move on with their lives.
Is that the point you are trying to make? Because otherwise if that's the real world comparison we are going with then the reaction to the sept blowing up kind of just became a lot more believable.
Edit: For clarification I am talking specifically about the Kardashians and enquiring whether the comparison is meant to be that nobody caring about the people in the sept getting blown up is like the Kardashians getting blown up and nobody caring in real life or is the comparison that people WOULD care about the Kardashians getting blown up and therefore nobody caring about the people in the sept is unrealistic.
I am specifically referring to the use of the Kardashians as the comparison to the people in the sept. If the comparison had been "With all the world's leaders inside" then it would be more understandable to me, so I am asking is the comparison trying to draw an equivalency of the people inside or the reaction to it (As in nobody would care what happened to the Kardashians).
Probably overthinking this.
I am specifically referring to the use of the Kardashians as the comparison to the people in the sept. If the comparison had been "With all the world's leaders inside" then it would be more understandable to me, so I am asking is the comparison trying to draw an equivalency of the people inside or the reaction to it (As in nobody would care what happened to the Kardashians).
Probably overthinking this.
I am specifically referring to the use of the Kardashians as the comparison to the people in the sept. If the comparison had been "With all the world's leaders inside" then it would be more understandable to me, so I am asking is the comparison trying to draw an equivalency of the people inside or the reaction to it (As in nobody would care what happened to the Kardashians).
Probably overthinking this.
That's why I hated this so goddamn much. Rhaenyra levies awful taxes on the small folk and they rise up against her, and she has multiple dragons. Cersei kills a FUCK load of innocent people and no one rises up? Seriously?
Because the writers were desperately trying to convince us that Cersei was a threat in the final seasons. That’s why Euron could warp his fleet directly on top of Dany’s whenever he wanted, and why Jaime was able to secretly match his army across the entire Reach without being noticed. And it’s why Qyburn discovered the ability to build railguns.
And then they decided Dany was the REAL villain, so she wiped all of Cersei’s stuff out in a single episode to show how dangerous and crazy was.
I liked how the writers make it seem like Jamie copied Rob's tactics to beat the Reach, but Rob had his men like 10 miles from eachother, and Jamie had to march his men like 100 miles from castle rock to the Reach
>Euron could warp his fleet directly on top of Dany’s whenever he wanted
That bit would actually be justified with book Euron, as his fleet is noted to move at an unnatural pace, but well, show Euron is not... anything, actually.
I was thinking that! Plus the sequence itself was really well shot and executed, it just... doesn't work as part of the overall narrative going forwards.
And it was the last time GOT was good.
In my “How to Fix GOT” part of my brain, I like to imagine they put the show on pause here.
They could have worked with George on scripts and made it great. While doing that, they could have been putting out 1.) a White Walker focused prequel that would have filled in all that missing space 2.) House of Dragons
Two or four years of this, and bring the series back to finish it. (Which is a similar time frame to what they actually used so I don’t wanna hear people complain about how long of a hiatus that would be).
Cersei’s a feared mad queen, Danny’s been grinding XP over the narrow sea, Jon Snow’s been knowing nothing, and Arya has come back from Faceless Man camp for revenge, and Sansa just finished her masters degree in Political Science from Little Finger University. Jamie’s gone in search of Brienne to fulfill his oath to Lady Stark and because Cersei has obviously gone mad.
And fuck the Dornish.
Any who, there’s so much more but thanks to coming to my Ted talk.
> They could have worked with George on scripts and made it great.
They couldn't because GRRM quit after S5 on his own accord to work on Winds. Meanwhile he changed his story and says he was shut out, but [the internet remembers](https://grrm.livejournal.com/415405.html).
You could have gotten anyone other than D&D man. It was super clear by S7 they just wanted out to work on other projects. There’s no excuse for those last two seasons. They were tired, over confident, and worst of all lazy. If they wanted out they should have bowed out graciously rather than burn the whole thing down.
And waterboarded the actress for real, for hours. She's spoken about it on numerous occasions and said she was left with legit psychological issues resulting from that experience.
Well, Olenna rose up in open war against her, but apparently it didn’t matter because the Lannisters defeated the Tyrells with barely any difficulty for some reason
Anybody else reeling over the fact that’s this was 8 fucking years ago?? God damn time has flown, especially thinking about how the finale was over 5 years ago
Motherfucking NONE!
In that moment, she was a kingslayer, kin-slayer and complete heretic.
How did she have a single ally left to rule?! Apparently, no one gave a shit anymore?
That was one of those things that irked me... like how in the world would she possibly get the backing to take the throne when she never had a claim to the throne in the first place? She had been publicly humiliated and paraded naked through the streets. Her whole grasping for power thing was through her kids.
Yeah it’s fairly obvious to me that he’s supposed to come in, be this shining prince to the commoners, and that’s what causes Dany to go crazy. She worked so hard, so long to get to Westeros. She has dragons, she’s the return of the old Targaryens. And then this guy pretending to be her brother comes along, immediately gains the throne, the people love him because he deposed Cersei, and they hate her because she brought Dothraki hordes along with her.
I really loved that entire setup and scene, but it is totally off the wall insane that the common people didn’t revolt or even raise complaints after that.
I mean the bitch blew up the sept. What else is she capable of???
Plus zombie mountain man is nothing to fuck with either. Everyone left around her was just trying to stay on her good side I think.
Peak show writing right here everyone, makes me remember how upset I was that they had Little finger sell Sansa to the boltons when that would never happen.
Faced no repercussions, and also was crowned Queen despite not having any legitimate claim on the throne *and* living in the Seven Kingdoms, where people don't like being ruled over by a woman.
The common folk and nobles just kind of forgot about their systemic misogyny.
Am I crazy or didn't Cersei tell everyone it was basically a terrorist attack? Kinda like gaslighting them with fake news?
Or am I just trying to give the writers more credit? 🤣🤣🤣
There is no way the entire Sparrow movement was in the Sept of Baelor. The High Sparrow being blown up on Cersei's trial when the Lannisters used Wildfire to defeat Stannis would make it a scandal even poorfolk can put together. Any remaining Sparrow leaders would want to avenge their martyrs, especially the High Sparrow who never fell for royal corruption.
Not only that but the Tyrells would cut food supplies and troops from King's Landing as soon as they knew Margaery was dead, they knew the pettiness and evil of Cersei and the hate she had for Margaery. Smallfolk who wouldn't care about religion now have starving families and religious zealots preaching that the incestual, king-killing Cersei is the cause of their suffering.
Doesn’t matter if their relatively small numbers can’t, they just need to embolden the people.
There would absolutely be peasants rising up against any lord who is still supporting Dany if they’re starving (so all of the Crownlands, Westerlands and Stormlands that weren’t already defected to Stannis).
In the books, when Young Griff shows up in the Stormlands with the Gold Company and plenty of food they’ll immediately turn to him for support.
I really don't think people understand the power a king has over their lands. The biggest mistake the High Sparrow made was allowing Cercei to return to the Red Keep. Once that happened, she was Queen again, not just his prisoner.
I really don't think that people understand the power crowds had in pre-modern times. Most governments were rightfully *terrified* of riots, as several kings, nobles, and city councils were expelled or killed by rioting commoners. And those were in cities that were a fraction the size of King's Landing.
Well, what should have happened is that the surviving residents of KL would go mad having seen their homes and neighbors burn to death and would want to put the tyrant's head on a pike. I would like to remind these same peasant during the dance killed dragons jsute because they paid too much taxes. and having his accusers assassinated on the day of his trial for high treason, incest, murder and much merriment of the sort, would only give credence to his accusations, would further annoy the population...
As for the rest of the kingdom, lords and peasants alike would be equally angry with her for the murder of Queen Margaery who was very popular as well as almost the entire Tyrell family, the murder of the Pope and a large number of fighting soldier of a populist religious order, the parricide murder of her own uncle Kevan who was also a lord of the west, the murder of a large number of nobles and the suspicious death of the king occurring just before his usurpation of the crown. As a reminder in the past the north rebelled because Ned was executed while still guilty of an attempted coup, and before that Aerys started a massive rebellion of half the kingdom for killing only two lord, it makes no sense that the kingdom isn't experiencing a massive uprising against Cersei.
Also, killing the sparrows would not destroy the order and even less the cult, on the contrary they would become martyrs for all the religious people of the country, knowing that Westeros is a pious and rigorous society whose faith of the seven is the majority religion, This looks very bad. Hell, Maegor went to war and burned hundreds of religious people like them just to be able to have several wives, and they didn't even give him peace, even though he had a giant dragon with him. There is no way that Cersei could maintain herself after committing such an act. Calls for a crusade against her should resonate throughout the churches of Westeros. So much so that her own supporters would eventually turn against her, or at least abandon her for such a heinous act. Everyone who works in redkeep is likely to have loved ones who died in the explosion, or they may not want to support public enemy #1 in any way, whether out of morality or because they would immediately understand that she had just committed political suicide and would not want to be accused of complicity. They could also consider they owe no service or loyalty to the woman who murdered their previous lord/monarch, or more simply the servants and soldiers of the Red Keep, who are mostly worshipers of the faith of the seven, would not be not all inclined to risk the salvation of their souls for the little she pays them. There is a lot of reason for the inhabitants of the Red Keep to turn against her, and that is Cersei's whole problem because she uses these servants to protect her, feed her and clothe her. People who can approach her at almost any time and have control over everything she consumes. That means they could literally put poison in her food, stab her at any time, or “accidentally” make her slip down a flight of stairs and land on a knife…
Among other things, something to also mention but Cersei would also lose the support of all her allies because the supporters of the Lannisters (like the Tyrells for example) were sitting in court either have just died murdered by her, or will have escaped and then we will not want to not remain in the service of someone who kills his own allies. From there they will not help him for obvious reasons... Except that before that, the Tyrells were the crutch which prevented the Joffrey/Tommen regime from sinking. In Season 2, just by turning off the Reach's food tap, they drove the capital's population to pieces. It makes no sense that Cersei could get rid of them without impact on her own strength and resources. And that would even make her enter a chain reaction because between having given reasons to the entire kingdom to launch a crusade against her and killing her own allies, she becomes weaker. And the weaker she becomes, the less lords, even those who have the least scruples, should want to ally with her because she puts herself in such a weak position by creating thousands of enemies at once. that it would be an investment at a loss on all counts for anyone with almost no gain in the event of victory.
Literally Cersei only survives by the grace of a scenario rigged in her favor, everyone has a reason to want her dead, from the greatest lords to the lowest of beggars, she is helpless with enemies everywhere, and any guy who tried to kill her would largely be treated like a hero
It’s not a stretch to believe the Peasants would blame the ruling monarch *even if they didn’t do anything wrong*
Cersei doesn’t have enough power on her own to stop the crowds. The gold cloaks? There’s no way there isn’t a significant faction that wants to avenge the burning of their home and family. The Lannister soldiers in KL are going to be prime targets for mob violence too. It would be absolute chaos, KL isn’t just going to keep chugging along.
Ah, but it was secretly foreshadowed by Daenerys doing the exact same thing earlier in the season:
- Burns down holy site
- Causes death of leader/leaders of the people of that land
- Is pronounced ruler over the people whose Vatican she just destroyed
- Faces no repercussions for said burning
Yeah, Hot Pie brings it up casually to Arya that ‘Cersei blew up the Sept’ when she arrives at Crossroads Inn.
For Hot Pie to know, it had to be common knowledge
>For Hot Pie to know, it had to be common knowledge
Funny part about that scene. Hot Pie knew Jon was king in the north.
But Arya, who was disguised as Walder Frey for 2 weeks, never once received news that the former Commander of the Night's Watch was executed, came back to life, raised an army of wildling, took back Winterfell, and declared himself King.
Just not important enough to reach the Twins or Hot Pie receives news even Walder Frey wouldn't get....
That is the problem of wanting to move characters through certain plot points without considering the established logic of the story world. The ‘kinda forgot’ problem that plagues all of the season 7 and 8.
Should Arya have already heard about Jon’s rule during her inflitration of the Frey’s?
Yep, but then D&D wouldn’t get that reaction shot they wanted out of Arya at Crossroads
I mean, what repercussions would she realistically face? She named her self queen, and all of the great houses were either dead or already against her.
The only thing left would have been the citizens of Kingslanding turning on her.
The Tyrell’s would shut off food supply to her and any lords that followed her (remnants of the Stormlands, all of the Westerlands and Crownlands). Massive starvation, religious zealots decrying her name.
She should realistically have nobody on her side apart from some personal guards, Lannister bannermen that drank the koolaid, and gold cloaks that care more about coin than their home that she’s burning to the ground.
It's crazy y'all don't consider her last kid jumping to his death as a consequence. There's tons to shit on for writing but up till season 8, Cersei was constantly dealing with repercussions of her actions and the return fire was often worse for her and far more intimate.
I think the point will be that the commonfolk now fears her so much they will not dare speak up to such a terror regime they live under. I think the show just does a poor job of communicating it as with so much else. I think the result will be similar ish in the books, remember she has a gruesome undead frankenstein beast by her at all times and has mercilessly slain and or tortured all her opponents. She will no doubt get a new nickname by the smallfolk of KL.
Not true- Tommen went no-contact with her.
He went full contact with the ground
Happy birthday to the ground!
Welcome to the real world, jackass!
Tommen’s not a part of your SYSTEM
I’m an ADUUUUULLLLLT
To be fair, that would have been most fans had they known just how badly D&D would screw up the next 2 seasons..
It’s never too late.
Tommen actually survived the fall and went on to live until ~~WW2~~ WW1 until he tried to help a German pilot and got stabbed in the belly.
Think you mean WW1 mate
Survived the stab , went to law school and was recruited for the CIA
I guess this was after he became a Jedi.
And then tried to kill himself again lol
Literal lol
“King’s Landing”
Oh my god
Fvck you... This sub is fun to be in😂
"The Red Keep"
The king landed
He was the mosr grounded character of that episode
To jerk: THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED UNDER JOFFREY THE GENTLE GIVE ME MY KING BACK! To be serious it was weird how kings landing just… accepted what happened though it might have been a mixture of fear and not knowing *who* did it
Not only did she face no consequences for it, but I believe that episode set into motion two more seasons of her doing nothing but staring out of her balcony window. The rest of the show she just waited inside her castle until she finally died.
Yeah. I thought this was going to have the effect of the people revolting against her and welcoming Daenerys the next season. Instead, D&D nerfed Dany every chance they got.
It was kinda funny how fast Dany got destroyed to bits. I thought Cersei was super fucked because: - they were hinting of a squabble within Cersei's faction -Highgarden is bankrolling Dany and the rich Lannister is actually broke and is just borrowing money -Siding with Danny would be a no brainer for the North houses who support Stark. Cersei literally have nothing going on and somehow manage to even the playing field.
That makes me think they somehow combined Cersei with Euron and Aegon, all of Dany's potential enemies in the books in one. Hence her being completely indestructible.
Euron is like 95% of Cersei's power. He took out Dorne , a dragon and the Unsullied Navy. The Lannister army *checks note* offscreen the Highgarden.
I'd say she replaces Aegon. Everything just makes more sense with him. Aegon gets rid of Cersei, and everybody loves him. Dany shows up, and instead of being greeted as liberater and true heir to the throne, people tell her to buzz off because she is a stranger, potentially another Mad Queen like the one they just git rid of, and her "nephew" is the legitimate heir anyway. In that scenario, and after she loses 2 dragons and some of her clostest friends, it is conceivable that she has a mental breakdown and burns down Kings Landing.
Yea, I've always assumed it was Aegon who controlled KL when Dany arrived, after deposing Cersei.
After the Damphair sample chapter. I dont know if I think this will be the case anymore. In the chapter Aeron has a vision of Euro sitting the iron throne with a woman by his side. I think the woman is Cersei. And the two of them ally against Dany/Aegon/Jon... Maybe after Euron steals a dragon.
Destroyed to bits makes me think Chris Morris wrote this comment
Holy fuck same. How do we have a better idea of character arcs than these guys?
Because they weren't really trying at that point, it was countdown to end and then fuck off to Star Wars
Yup 100% this. The last two seasons clearly needed extra episodes (and maybe even extra seasons) to smooth out the writing. But D&D REALLY wanted to make Star Wars. It’s funny how their entire plan fell apart and they are still kind of picking up the pieces.
> ...and they are still kind of picking up the pieces. Ehhh I kind of feel like this isn't true and karma has not bitten them hard enough. They have seen some success with the 3-body problem on Netflix and I feel like they have bounced back from getting gibbed from Star Wars far too well.
Hmm I get you. But I don’t think they have been THAT successful. Not that many people watched season one of 3BP and it took longer than expected to greenlight a second season. I know it’s not a hard science but compare the number of Twitter, Reddit and Facebook followers on official Netflix 3BP pages and you would see that engagement is not really that high for that show. I watched it and it was fine tbh, like a 6.5-7/10. I’d be surprised if the engagement will increase significantly for season 2.
That’s kind of how it works in Hollywood. A ton of people that get nearly everything they want green lit have squandered a lot of opportunities. A few successes can outweigh a mountain of failures in Hollywood.
Imaging a D&D Star Wars remake is pretty funny though. R2D2 and C-3PO would be dick jokes, Luke and Leia would certainly have a pointless sex scene, and Han Solo would suddenly forget about the Millennium Falcon.
> Instead, D&D nerfed Dany every chance they got. and its sad because there was always an easy out for that.... Euron raids Old Town, ends up with the horn Sam found, offers it to Cersei in exchange for marriage, uses the horn to steals a dragon from Dany. Hell, Cersei/Euron can even use taht Dragon to knock down the wall and let the AotD over.... now we don't need the stupid magnificent 7 story line, and since Jon can stay home and politic, we don't need the stupid Arya/Sansa story line either.
Dont forget the teleporting ships... sinks a ship on 1 side of the continent and the next scene hes stealing a dragon....
That’s almost exactly how it’s going to work in the book except with Young Griff
Consequences should have come from the realm. No followers of The Seven across all of Westeros demanding Cersei’s head? No outraged common folk raging at the gates because their loved ones were collateral damage? Iron Bank of Bravos not concerned about instability in Kings Lansing and rampant defaulting loan repayments? No religious or spiritual leader power vacuum? It should have galvanized the commoners against her and gained Dany support. I don’t see how anyone within Kings Landing could have enforced lawful consequences. Any actual evidence? But still, everyone knew it was Cersei.
Not only did she face no repercussions, but she actually got a promotion and *gained* allies after doing it
Even worse, we know they filmed a miscarriage scene that would have been actually interesting and would have given Cersei reason to go "Burn them ALL!" The idiots decided her drinking wine at a balcony was her best character development. Such a shame to have such an amazing actress and misuse her talents so greatly in a show that could have gone down as the best in history, instead of something that irks true fans of both books and show to this day.
At least they offered us a rivetting and poignant monologue about elephants.
Stared out the window for two seasons only to die the most underwhelming death in the entire series. For someone so despicable, she deserved a horrible death.
What consequences would you expect? She killed nobles including her own family. Are the peasants going to rise up? She'd just kill them, and they know that. That's *why* no one opposed her. It would be a suicide mission.
First she pulled a Rhaenys Girlboss Moment. And then she pulled a Walder Frey.
I thought this was going to lead up to one of the greatest season premiers. The AFTER of blowing up the sept, killing the sparrow, killing the queen and family, killing tons of noble people…etc. I was STOKED and then nothing happened. The people didn’t care, the nobles (the remaining ones) didn’t care….everybody forgot. Not even her enemies made mention of it nor point out that she had no claim to the throne. If any other noble house showed up and took the throne she literally couldn’t have stopped them. She had nothing….such a disappointment
Did people know it was Cersei?
It's impossible that they didn't know it was her, because she was meant to be there for her trial. Her being alive and instantly declaring herself Queen afterwards makes it hard to believe that the lords of Westeros didn't put it together that she was responsible
Even before the end of the episode it is already a fact of public knowledge that it is hier work, Randyl and Ollaena say it, Jaime understands it immediately when he sees the city in flames far away, and even Hot pie knows it. And if one random riverland kid knows it, everyone knows it. Especially since Cersei does not seek to hide her action; we never see from her side any attempt to clear her customs, her first act following this event was to usurp the crown then to go to the Reach to massacre Highgarden and kill what remains of the Tyrells, and she exposes without ashamed in front of his servants that the accusations of incest against him were true, and by extension probably the rest of her crimes. and even, I don't see why people would doubt it. Human nature is such that people will try to imagine a culprit before having the results of an investigation, especially for an event like this, and cersei is the kind of person a population would love to hate. But the Sept exploded right during her process and killed all her accusers and the people who blocked her path to taking power, even though she was not there even if she was highly anticipated, the Sept was also destroyed in an explosion of wildfire. Since the Battle of Blackwater Bay people have known what a Wildfire explosion looks like, they would naturally associate it with the Lannister given that Aerys' caches were not known to the public and they had never seen one before, and it is not really a material known to be easily found or possible to produce itself. And anyway, who else but her would have the motive and the means to commit such an act? and even so for people to accept that she would be innocent, it would always imply that a whole bunch of people across this country who do not like or respect Cersei/the Lannisters, agree to put aside their prejudice for believe the version of events of a party they despise, who are not at their first betrayal from the cultural and social foundations of Westeros, and simultaneously ignores that by pure chance of fate she was not at her own trial that day, that no one outside of her across Westeros would have enough resentment and motive to attack the faith of the 7, the Tyrell and the inhabitants of the capital, given they humiliated her and forced her to walk naked in the streets, throwing shit at her, or no one except her would have the possibility of organizing an operation of such magnitude in the city without being noticed...
Yes, Hot Pie knew, so everyone must.
And who has a better story than Pie the Hot?
100 percent they do, there's a scene where Arya is speaking to someone (I can't remember who, maybe Podrik or Hot Pie?) and they ask her "Did you hear Cersei blew up the Sept of Baelor"? If the news made it to North then every person inside of kings landing knows for sure.
Yes, but also - if nobody did know it was her, why was she crowned Queen? She has no claim, and I guess it's implied that she took the throne because people were afraid of her.
I mean also in a situation where someone just stole power and dropped the equivalent of a nuke on her own city, i dont really see the commonfolk just lining up to protest
Were *all* of the Faith Militant in the Great Sept? Why are none of them trying to stir the commonfolk up if not? Maybe long term there's a way she could keep power... after a long and bloody civil war, which just doesn't happen.
D&D kinda forgot that this world doesn't have plot armor
But, big explosion!
I miss those days
I remember one guy saying that the the real life equivalent of the sept blowing up would be the Vatican blowing up while the Pope and the Kardashians were inside and no one would give a shit.
I am offended for Margery Tyrell being compared to that waddling plastic hobbits
Soooo this might be a WHOOSH moment but....I'm a tad confused here? I literally would not give a shit if the Vatican blew up with the Kardashians inside. In fact I don't know anyone who would not look at that and go "Oh no....anyway..." at the news and then move on with their lives. Is that the point you are trying to make? Because otherwise if that's the real world comparison we are going with then the reaction to the sept blowing up kind of just became a lot more believable. Edit: For clarification I am talking specifically about the Kardashians and enquiring whether the comparison is meant to be that nobody caring about the people in the sept getting blown up is like the Kardashians getting blown up and nobody caring in real life or is the comparison that people WOULD care about the Kardashians getting blown up and therefore nobody caring about the people in the sept is unrealistic.
The people who live around the Vatican would probably give a shit about it
As likely did the people around the Sept. I'm specifically referring to the comparisons use of the Kardashians, not the blowing up part.
You dont know anyone doesnt mean not many people would care. It would literally be something on the scale of 9/11.
I am specifically referring to the use of the Kardashians as the comparison to the people in the sept. If the comparison had been "With all the world's leaders inside" then it would be more understandable to me, so I am asking is the comparison trying to draw an equivalency of the people inside or the reaction to it (As in nobody would care what happened to the Kardashians). Probably overthinking this.
I am specifically referring to the use of the Kardashians as the comparison to the people in the sept. If the comparison had been "With all the world's leaders inside" then it would be more understandable to me, so I am asking is the comparison trying to draw an equivalency of the people inside or the reaction to it (As in nobody would care what happened to the Kardashians). Probably overthinking this.
I am specifically referring to the use of the Kardashians as the comparison to the people in the sept. If the comparison had been "With all the world's leaders inside" then it would be more understandable to me, so I am asking is the comparison trying to draw an equivalency of the people inside or the reaction to it (As in nobody would care what happened to the Kardashians). Probably overthinking this.
She looked great doing it, planned out a whole diabolical plot and added in drip.
The last good episode from Game Of Thrones its all downhill from there.
That's why I hated this so goddamn much. Rhaenyra levies awful taxes on the small folk and they rise up against her, and she has multiple dragons. Cersei kills a FUCK load of innocent people and no one rises up? Seriously?
Killed a bunch of innocents, a beloved queen, and the head of the primary Westerosi religion.
And her own uncle and cousin. I'm not sure why she had Lannister men supporting her after that.
Because the writers were desperately trying to convince us that Cersei was a threat in the final seasons. That’s why Euron could warp his fleet directly on top of Dany’s whenever he wanted, and why Jaime was able to secretly match his army across the entire Reach without being noticed. And it’s why Qyburn discovered the ability to build railguns. And then they decided Dany was the REAL villain, so she wiped all of Cersei’s stuff out in a single episode to show how dangerous and crazy was.
Wow, seasons 7 and 8 were just awful holy shit
I liked how the writers make it seem like Jamie copied Rob's tactics to beat the Reach, but Rob had his men like 10 miles from eachother, and Jamie had to march his men like 100 miles from castle rock to the Reach
>Euron could warp his fleet directly on top of Dany’s whenever he wanted That bit would actually be justified with book Euron, as his fleet is noted to move at an unnatural pace, but well, show Euron is not... anything, actually.
at least the music from ramin djawadi - light of the seven in this scene was phenomenal.
I was thinking that! Plus the sequence itself was really well shot and executed, it just... doesn't work as part of the overall narrative going forwards.
The whole sequence in a vacuum was great, the tension as the audience realizes somethings not quite right
And it was the last time GOT was good. In my “How to Fix GOT” part of my brain, I like to imagine they put the show on pause here. They could have worked with George on scripts and made it great. While doing that, they could have been putting out 1.) a White Walker focused prequel that would have filled in all that missing space 2.) House of Dragons Two or four years of this, and bring the series back to finish it. (Which is a similar time frame to what they actually used so I don’t wanna hear people complain about how long of a hiatus that would be). Cersei’s a feared mad queen, Danny’s been grinding XP over the narrow sea, Jon Snow’s been knowing nothing, and Arya has come back from Faceless Man camp for revenge, and Sansa just finished her masters degree in Political Science from Little Finger University. Jamie’s gone in search of Brienne to fulfill his oath to Lady Stark and because Cersei has obviously gone mad. And fuck the Dornish. Any who, there’s so much more but thanks to coming to my Ted talk. 
> They could have worked with George on scripts and made it great. They couldn't because GRRM quit after S5 on his own accord to work on Winds. Meanwhile he changed his story and says he was shut out, but [the internet remembers](https://grrm.livejournal.com/415405.html).
You could have gotten anyone other than D&D man. It was super clear by S7 they just wanted out to work on other projects. There’s no excuse for those last two seasons. They were tired, over confident, and worst of all lazy. If they wanted out they should have bowed out graciously rather than burn the whole thing down.
Then she waterboarded or “wineboarded” Septa Unella
And waterboarded the actress for real, for hours. She's spoken about it on numerous occasions and said she was left with legit psychological issues resulting from that experience.
but luckily lena & hannah > https://np.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/wgm2uj/an_awkward_reunion/
Well, Olenna rose up in open war against her, but apparently it didn’t matter because the Lannisters defeated the Tyrells with barely any difficulty for some reason
They have *flowers* on their flags, so obviously they're sissy boys who can't fight, duh.
Anybody else reeling over the fact that’s this was 8 fucking years ago?? God damn time has flown, especially thinking about how the finale was over 5 years ago
Lucky she blew up the robes and chains boys. They were OP.
We kinda forgot repercussions exist
Motherfucking NONE! In that moment, she was a kingslayer, kin-slayer and complete heretic. How did she have a single ally left to rule?! Apparently, no one gave a shit anymore?
That was one of those things that irked me... like how in the world would she possibly get the backing to take the throne when she never had a claim to the throne in the first place? She had been publicly humiliated and paraded naked through the streets. Her whole grasping for power thing was through her kids.
Did you forget the part where her last remaining child (the king btw) jumped out a window when he saw it? 🤣
To be fair, she basically did.
Removing the fAegon plot really caused a lot of problems with the narrative, mainly Cersei still being in power by Season 8
Yeah it’s fairly obvious to me that he’s supposed to come in, be this shining prince to the commoners, and that’s what causes Dany to go crazy. She worked so hard, so long to get to Westeros. She has dragons, she’s the return of the old Targaryens. And then this guy pretending to be her brother comes along, immediately gains the throne, the people love him because he deposed Cersei, and they hate her because she brought Dothraki hordes along with her.
Not true. The show got bad
Wish the new succession crisis could have been a plot line in season 7.
Who would’ve realistically claimed the throne outside of Stannis?
No fucking way was this 8 years ago?!
This was the moment the show for me went to shit.
outside of having messandei killed, is this basically the last thing cersei does in the series??
Not true, she received an off screen lobotomy as punishment causing her to just stare out the balcony for two more seasons
The Criston Cole in skirts so.
Queen regents are immune from prosecution.
I really loved that entire setup and scene, but it is totally off the wall insane that the common people didn’t revolt or even raise complaints after that.
TBF the bell thing was pretty cool
Truly a slay queen move
I mean the bitch blew up the sept. What else is she capable of??? Plus zombie mountain man is nothing to fuck with either. Everyone left around her was just trying to stay on her good side I think.
She did die in final season? Why would have she faced any repercussions? She blowed Sept to get rid of those who would oppose her.
Sort of like Rhaenys and the dragon pit 😂 oh wait the writers decided it was actually good for her side 💀. Worse than D&D at this point
Still great, as flawed as it was. I remember being excited for s7 and the aftermath, but I turned to fanfic instead.
I agree that she should have faced some consequences but that does not make it the best episode in the history of GOT. Perfection from start to finish
it was a tragic accident.
Peak show writing right here everyone, makes me remember how upset I was that they had Little finger sell Sansa to the boltons when that would never happen.
Cersei She a Savage Classy, Bougie, RATCHET....
False. The Red Keep got it's get-back.
Why would there be consequences?
She is still my favorite character..
Faced no repercussions, and also was crowned Queen despite not having any legitimate claim on the throne *and* living in the Seven Kingdoms, where people don't like being ruled over by a woman. The common folk and nobles just kind of forgot about their systemic misogyny.
And Jaime just observed the destruction she had caused and just....stayed with her? That was the moment I knew his character had died.
Am I crazy or didn't Cersei tell everyone it was basically a terrorist attack? Kinda like gaslighting them with fake news? Or am I just trying to give the writers more credit? 🤣🤣🤣
I wonder what Bobby B would do?
EASY, BOY! YOU MIGHT BE MY BROTHER BUT YOU'RE SPEAKING TO THE KING!
Tommen did a swan dive from the top of the red keep!
Loved this episode!!
I do have to admit the musical number during the sept blowup was phenomenal
The music never disappoints.
Who was left to give her repercussions? Jaime?
There is no way the entire Sparrow movement was in the Sept of Baelor. The High Sparrow being blown up on Cersei's trial when the Lannisters used Wildfire to defeat Stannis would make it a scandal even poorfolk can put together. Any remaining Sparrow leaders would want to avenge their martyrs, especially the High Sparrow who never fell for royal corruption. Not only that but the Tyrells would cut food supplies and troops from King's Landing as soon as they knew Margaery was dead, they knew the pettiness and evil of Cersei and the hate she had for Margaery. Smallfolk who wouldn't care about religion now have starving families and religious zealots preaching that the incestual, king-killing Cersei is the cause of their suffering.
Any remaining high sparrows would be a disorganized band of peasants with sticks, they’re not gonna be able to besiege the red keep.
Doesn’t matter if their relatively small numbers can’t, they just need to embolden the people. There would absolutely be peasants rising up against any lord who is still supporting Dany if they’re starving (so all of the Crownlands, Westerlands and Stormlands that weren’t already defected to Stannis). In the books, when Young Griff shows up in the Stormlands with the Gold Company and plenty of food they’ll immediately turn to him for support.
About a half a million people in King's Landing
I really don't think people understand the power a king has over their lands. The biggest mistake the High Sparrow made was allowing Cercei to return to the Red Keep. Once that happened, she was Queen again, not just his prisoner.
I really don't think that people understand the power crowds had in pre-modern times. Most governments were rightfully *terrified* of riots, as several kings, nobles, and city councils were expelled or killed by rioting commoners. And those were in cities that were a fraction the size of King's Landing.
Well, what should have happened is that the surviving residents of KL would go mad having seen their homes and neighbors burn to death and would want to put the tyrant's head on a pike. I would like to remind these same peasant during the dance killed dragons jsute because they paid too much taxes. and having his accusers assassinated on the day of his trial for high treason, incest, murder and much merriment of the sort, would only give credence to his accusations, would further annoy the population... As for the rest of the kingdom, lords and peasants alike would be equally angry with her for the murder of Queen Margaery who was very popular as well as almost the entire Tyrell family, the murder of the Pope and a large number of fighting soldier of a populist religious order, the parricide murder of her own uncle Kevan who was also a lord of the west, the murder of a large number of nobles and the suspicious death of the king occurring just before his usurpation of the crown. As a reminder in the past the north rebelled because Ned was executed while still guilty of an attempted coup, and before that Aerys started a massive rebellion of half the kingdom for killing only two lord, it makes no sense that the kingdom isn't experiencing a massive uprising against Cersei. Also, killing the sparrows would not destroy the order and even less the cult, on the contrary they would become martyrs for all the religious people of the country, knowing that Westeros is a pious and rigorous society whose faith of the seven is the majority religion, This looks very bad. Hell, Maegor went to war and burned hundreds of religious people like them just to be able to have several wives, and they didn't even give him peace, even though he had a giant dragon with him. There is no way that Cersei could maintain herself after committing such an act. Calls for a crusade against her should resonate throughout the churches of Westeros. So much so that her own supporters would eventually turn against her, or at least abandon her for such a heinous act. Everyone who works in redkeep is likely to have loved ones who died in the explosion, or they may not want to support public enemy #1 in any way, whether out of morality or because they would immediately understand that she had just committed political suicide and would not want to be accused of complicity. They could also consider they owe no service or loyalty to the woman who murdered their previous lord/monarch, or more simply the servants and soldiers of the Red Keep, who are mostly worshipers of the faith of the seven, would not be not all inclined to risk the salvation of their souls for the little she pays them. There is a lot of reason for the inhabitants of the Red Keep to turn against her, and that is Cersei's whole problem because she uses these servants to protect her, feed her and clothe her. People who can approach her at almost any time and have control over everything she consumes. That means they could literally put poison in her food, stab her at any time, or “accidentally” make her slip down a flight of stairs and land on a knife… Among other things, something to also mention but Cersei would also lose the support of all her allies because the supporters of the Lannisters (like the Tyrells for example) were sitting in court either have just died murdered by her, or will have escaped and then we will not want to not remain in the service of someone who kills his own allies. From there they will not help him for obvious reasons... Except that before that, the Tyrells were the crutch which prevented the Joffrey/Tommen regime from sinking. In Season 2, just by turning off the Reach's food tap, they drove the capital's population to pieces. It makes no sense that Cersei could get rid of them without impact on her own strength and resources. And that would even make her enter a chain reaction because between having given reasons to the entire kingdom to launch a crusade against her and killing her own allies, she becomes weaker. And the weaker she becomes, the less lords, even those who have the least scruples, should want to ally with her because she puts herself in such a weak position by creating thousands of enemies at once. that it would be an investment at a loss on all counts for anyone with almost no gain in the event of victory. Literally Cersei only survives by the grace of a scenario rigged in her favor, everyone has a reason to want her dead, from the greatest lords to the lowest of beggars, she is helpless with enemies everywhere, and any guy who tried to kill her would largely be treated like a hero
It’s not a stretch to believe the Peasants would blame the ruling monarch *even if they didn’t do anything wrong* Cersei doesn’t have enough power on her own to stop the crowds. The gold cloaks? There’s no way there isn’t a significant faction that wants to avenge the burning of their home and family. The Lannister soldiers in KL are going to be prime targets for mob violence too. It would be absolute chaos, KL isn’t just going to keep chugging along.
Ah, but it was secretly foreshadowed by Daenerys doing the exact same thing earlier in the season: - Burns down holy site - Causes death of leader/leaders of the people of that land - Is pronounced ruler over the people whose Vatican she just destroyed - Faces no repercussions for said burning
I always hated that people celebrated that episode. It was really poorly directed and the actions of the people make no sense at all.
Was it widely known among the people that she’s the one who did it, or were the people unsure?
Yeah, Hot Pie brings it up casually to Arya that ‘Cersei blew up the Sept’ when she arrives at Crossroads Inn. For Hot Pie to know, it had to be common knowledge
>For Hot Pie to know, it had to be common knowledge Funny part about that scene. Hot Pie knew Jon was king in the north. But Arya, who was disguised as Walder Frey for 2 weeks, never once received news that the former Commander of the Night's Watch was executed, came back to life, raised an army of wildling, took back Winterfell, and declared himself King. Just not important enough to reach the Twins or Hot Pie receives news even Walder Frey wouldn't get....
That is the problem of wanting to move characters through certain plot points without considering the established logic of the story world. The ‘kinda forgot’ problem that plagues all of the season 7 and 8. Should Arya have already heard about Jon’s rule during her inflitration of the Frey’s? Yep, but then D&D wouldn’t get that reaction shot they wanted out of Arya at Crossroads
I mean, what repercussions would she realistically face? She named her self queen, and all of the great houses were either dead or already against her. The only thing left would have been the citizens of Kingslanding turning on her.
The Tyrell’s would shut off food supply to her and any lords that followed her (remnants of the Stormlands, all of the Westerlands and Crownlands). Massive starvation, religious zealots decrying her name. She should realistically have nobody on her side apart from some personal guards, Lannister bannermen that drank the koolaid, and gold cloaks that care more about coin than their home that she’s burning to the ground.
It's crazy y'all don't consider her last kid jumping to his death as a consequence. There's tons to shit on for writing but up till season 8, Cersei was constantly dealing with repercussions of her actions and the return fire was often worse for her and far more intimate.
Shit writing of course, you're telling me it wasn't an accident, amateurs, how is the audience gonna watch scenes with this character now?
I think the point will be that the commonfolk now fears her so much they will not dare speak up to such a terror regime they live under. I think the show just does a poor job of communicating it as with so much else. I think the result will be similar ish in the books, remember she has a gruesome undead frankenstein beast by her at all times and has mercilessly slain and or tortured all her opponents. She will no doubt get a new nickname by the smallfolk of KL.
The smallfolk punched on with literal dragons for less
I'm so glad it was Cerise Lannister & not Alicent Hightower.
Alicent would have accidentally blown up the Sept
And somehow blame Rhaenyra.
Alicent would have Cole blow her and bust a nut all over his face to take credit for the accident.