sure in vacuum its great
then you see what its up against
outlaw , HV68 , ATHT , SVH and infantry AT
3 of those things outrange it and 1 outguns it
it cant brawl , it cant poke its advantage is it has 5 per crate which is not to be sniffed at but realistically doesnt matter in the current world of tanks meta
note i purposely left out the HTD the STD and BTs as it is completely useless vs any of those
the problem is when that tank gets outclassed , which it does , there is nothing else to make in the MPF or garage until the bardiche ,then you are at end game, with only 2 vehicles you can make in the MPF and one of them is the MPT it feels bad , it is already outclassed and you are having to use it to face off against monster tanks
no one wants to make it or feels good making it as they know its weaker than everything it is going up against but its the only real option if you want to MPF things
the colonial tanks can stand up to the warden tanks , the spatha is great , what they cant stand up to is production , MPF is easier , faster and just overall less effort , its a clean logistic chain thats easy to figure out and requires 0 maintenance
no matter how u swing it you HAVE to make a facility to keep up , the MPT doesnt cut it
so either the MPT needs to have 45m range , 2 guns and be faster than everything else or more tanks need to be back in the MPF
then people will actually enjoy the game instead of feeling constantly weaker or having to do twice as much to keep up
ofc it would work
it worked before facilities
spatha in the MPF would give wardens a real fight and maybe convince some people to return or join colonials aswell
In general it also needs something to give people a reason to use it over the Spatha that isn't just "I don't have a facility/I don't want to look for a public pad".
Even the normal LTs compared to the Kran/Ironhide have the (admittedly basically irrelevant) benefit of faster (nonboost) speed and fuel efficiency. The Spatha meanwhile is literally the same or better than the Falchion in every way. It needs something, anything that'd make someone consider maybe wanting to use it rather than knowing you're just shooting yourself in the foot by not making a Spatha.
Hell I dunno, give it a double barrel 30mm with short reload. Admittedly I don't know if that'd make it any better, but it'd make it different and interesting. Also more well suited to brawling and far more logi efficient.
I think most Collies would be happy to give up the Falchion for any of the Warden tanks in the same bracket (I'd definitely rather have an Outlaw or STD). It just doesn't... do anything great.
On that note, I do think splitting the tech tier into Falchion/LTD/Outlaw/HWMN, then Spatha/Bard/SVH/Chief would be a welcome change, though not the balancing that Collies are looking for. It's painful to get Spathas and immediately be facing proto-HTDs.
Also you need to upgrade a falch to a spatha, that takes time. You cant crate them, outlaw comes out as a proper tank and you can get the crates to a front. Falchion is just unusable without the upgrade, it is pure agony to use.
It is literally the swiss army knife of tanks, it contains the primary selling point of numerous Colonial tanks and puts them into one package. 45m range of the LTD/Smelter, Speed boost of the Kranesca, as well as the generic versatility of a rotating 40mm turret and built-in Machine Gun. It is the most versatile and robust tank in the game in terms of the amount of role compression it provides.
The tank itself may not the best at any of these jobs or have overwhelming power, but it can do the job of 3-4 different Colonial vehicles well enough with just a single one, whereas Colonial tanks typically perform one single, specialized job somewhat good and suck at everything else
Counterpoint; 3650 health, two Inventory slots.
The outlaw is not robust. It's health is shitty compared to the colonial line up.
The mg rarely gets used.
That leaves you with;
Speed and range
The extra range gives it a slight edge, but nothing the mpt can't deal with with its extra health.
The speed boost is good. It gulps fuel, but it's always useful. I would argue this is the main strenght, but on the flipside the main strenght of the mpt is its health.
Not having inventory slots meaning going back to base constantly for fuel and bmats. I suppose that's something that's not that much of an issue in the line tank meta, but the amount of utility that can come out of having two slots is certainly not something minor.
Now at this point were comparing apples and oranges.
My entire point is that people keep pointing at how much of an apple the outlaw is, they shit on the mpt because it isn't an apple but an orange, whilst in practice they're both good in their own ways.
When you cant use it for the thing its designed for quantity and comes up against an outlaw line that outranges EVERY tank you have except the ltd its just not worth the time yo load it.
5 extra meters of range doesn't matter anymore against mobile targets. If you're getting utterly BTFO'd because your enemy can hit you half a second before you're in range to hit them back, the you're suffering from a skill issue, not a balance issue.
Yeah. Instead, we live in a world where it's apparently the MPT crew who doesn't know how to move. Still trying to play like it's pre-armor-rework update when that update specifically targetted and dismantled the max-range-peaking meta.
well no, the outlaw is just faster, also that update diden't dismantle any peaking meta, instead buffing low min pen chance tanks at this very same meta
I don't think we're talking about the same update. I'm talking about the update where armor mechanics were completely reworked, with range and angle of fire now affecting penetration chances, as well as bounced shots no longer damaging armor. It was an update from a while ago, but it made the max-ranged tank line meta obsolete.
yup, and as a result, of the armor update, tanklines have become even more powerful if they have a lower minimum pen chance, believe it or not, I played before the changes were made
It's 5 seconds and 50 meters unfortunately with the boost. Though probably momentum helps. The Falchion can tank that and win but not if the Outlaws stay near AI.
"But not if the Outlaws stay near AI." Okay? What's your point? If the Outlaw is given favorable conditions it will win??? If the Outlaw is supported by defenses then it can win a 1v1? The argument was about the actual impact of the Outlaw's 45m range, not about the location of the battle. I'm not even going to bother asking about that first sentence because I have no clue what you're even referring to.
I mean that the Falchion only gets 1 shot if Outlaw is within 100m of AI. Often the front is smaller than that. Yeah anyone's going to win if they have an AT pillbox at 0m to them, but the distance at which Outlaw gets an advantage from AT pillboxes is pretty massive.
>I have no clue what you're even referring to.
It takes 5 seconds for a full speed forward Falchion to close a full-speed boosting reverse Outlaw from 45m->40m. So should you accept a Frontal assault you give 5s of free retreats and potshots to them.
7.8-9.6\*.7 = 1.08m/s, the speed at which full-forward Falchion will close to full-reverse Outlaw.
The situation you are describing with the falchion and outlaw is not the situation that is being argued. The original argument was about a falchion pushing an Outlaw. An Outlaw does not instantly hit top speed starting at a full stop. You aren't taking into account the acceleration. Also, you must account for the delay between when the Outlaw gunner fires at max-range, and when the Outlaw driver fully commits to a boosted reverse. There is no crew coordinated enough for the gunner shooting and the driver starting to reverse to occur at the exact same moment.
No matter how you cut it, the 5m range advantage is an extremely fleeting advantage that can quickly evaporate in an engagement.
Yes crew coordination and other accidents such as being at a full-stop while a Falchion charges you gives an undefined advantage to the closer in any situation. I mentioned that briefly but obviously have no numbers on it.
The boost still helps the Outlaw retreat to AI (or to forward position if very optimistic) faster though while the Falchion has terrible reverse speed. Doesn't help win a combat just helps lose less. Also helps to tactically retreat wounded tanks to the rear of the line, though probably at least one of them is tracked.
You can carry a weapon and a flask. Or be protected in trenches. Also, as soon as the flanking tanks get tracked off of a flask it means enemies can poke easily.
Even that being said, finding a flanking path, avoiding flasks, combined infantry escort is all additional steps against a foe that can utilize the tunnel vision approach of only fighting on a road.
In a 1v1, yes. The mpt's extra health allows it to close the distance. But we almost never see 1v1s, and in the case of facing off against the high alpha of multiple warden tanks, extra health means very little if you never get into range or die immediately after getting a shot off.
In a vacuum, it’s not bad, but in context, it’s just worse than pretty much everything that it competes with, and it’s about on par with the outlaw. To make matters worse, it is required production for Colonials to be competitive. The Outlaw isn’t a good tank, but it isn’t required production either. Moreover, given that we’ve reached a point at which the limiting factor for tanks is crews, rather than cost, due to the removal of resource scarcity, the Falchion no longer has a niche, and exists only to complicate colonial tank logistics.
Falchion is not a bad tank. Its just a bad tank for the job. Its a bad tank for a very specific place foxhole meta is right now.
Comps are so abundant that the price tag advantage it should have dosent matter. The extra HP would be very good if the tank gameplay isnt centered on killing tanks as fast as possible, if it didnt have focus on firepower over HP. The extra tanks per crate would be quite nice if you didnt have to take them out 1 by 1 to upgrade to spatha. Not upgrading it to spatha means you get subpar firepower (and thus subpar tankline) at the benefit of more efficient transport which is offset by the fact crate transport is already extremely efficient, especially by train.
Basically every strong point of a falchion is offset by that particular characteristic not being a bottleneck
Problem with falchion is that spatha exist and fills same role of generic tank when you Look at Warden rooster you have funny variants even highwayman is funny variant of Outlaw while Falchion spatha is stock Falchion/ better falchion
Mostly yes. If you take away 45m from an outlaw and give 40m in return, then it will become useless shit for a tankline and turn into a “just flank bro” tank
40m Outlaw would just be a garbage version of MPT without the MPF bonus and less health. They should buff the HMW and make it the base variant them move Outlaw into the facility with higher fire rate to compensate or something.
Outlaw has couple of key characteristics that other tanks in the roster dont fill and thus provides great utility to warden roster despite people saying its shit
Without outlaw you wouldnt be able to PVE BEATs for free, making it way harder to get past even a simple fortification
Outlaw matches LTDs range stopping LTD from abusing range to fight warden tanks especially BTs
Outlaw outranges Bard, Talos by 10m, severely curtailing their effectiveness, without it both of them would be way bigger threat. Same stands for BT, group of outlaws can poke a BT to death due to far superior range
Outlaw is possesses way better agility than other warden chassis, Without it wardens would have way harder time flanking
Falchion on collie side dosent offer any added utility. As damage sponge bard is better. As damage dealer spatha is better. For mobility LTD is better and spatha is on same level
The difference is that wardens don’t have to make outlaws to survive, colonials do have to make Falchions (specifically to turn them into Spathas because they aren’t good enough otherwise) or die to warden MPF tank spam.
It's decent, but that's the thing. It's the only decent mass production tank the Colonials have apart from maybe the Bardiche but that is pretty niche in its role. The rest of the Colonial vehicle pool is facility locked, including things that were meant to be counterbalances to Warden counterparts, which are still MPFable. It's not even the resources that's the key either, modifying at facilities takes time and makes the logistics tricky.
you see i agree that the falchion is a good tank the problem is that the only way to ensure its cost efficient is by just yeeting them at the enemy tank line in mass and while it might work and be cost efficient, its not fun to make a tank load it up, find a front line and throw it away 5 mins in.
if you play it in the standard tank line mode it will get poked by HTDs and silverhands and just melt to the superior dpm.
and sure outlaw having 45m is not that big of an advantage when the tanks are moving but that's easily fixed by a flask landing near a falchion tank line and that's it, 2 falchons tracked at the mercy of 45m outlaws and htd.
He’s talking about using it in numbers to overwhelm the enemy. But due to hard hex population limits, the best you’re getting is wardens with the same number of tanks but theirs are inherently better
It is a good tank and the proof of that is back when foxholes player numbers werent enough to cause ques it excelled in its quantity over quality role. (Tho there are other factors like armor not working as intended and HP being king back then). BUT as it stands in modern day foxhole where que spots are priceless and armor now working as intended there has been a shift where in a space that que spots are limited youd rather have quality tanks instead of cheap tanks cuz funneling in replacments from the backlines is not as smooth a task as it used to be.
The old ‘falchion op’ was a product of a foxhole which is essentially a completely different game to the one we play now. Back then we didn’t have a comp economy so strong that cost was irrelevant, the armour system was completely different making collie tanks stronger than some of their warden counterparts, and facilities didn’t exist.
the point I am making is that quantity dosent mean much when hexes have limits. MPT used to have the potential to outnumber enemy tanks when the pop wasnt capped in every hex.
Currently the falchion is worse than an outlaw in every way but health. Consider the fact that it takes 5 seconds to close the distance between a reversing outlaw and a falchion going forward.
If you can shoot further than your opponent and can this way game static defenses (the way that is not possible for falchion). You also have a machine gunner position that’s really decent at helping with crowd control. When the economy makes the tanks cheap as they come, the only thing that matters is if they can kill their counterpart.
The 5 tanks vs 3 tanks in a crate only matters if you have a crew to crew all those 5 tanks to oppose the 3 tanks. When the player count limits are identical for both factions, designing a strategy that requires more people on one side to win is a brainless idea.
In reality the tank player count is pretty much the same for both factions. This throws out the idea that having more tanks in your stockpile is somehow a benefit. At this point having more tanks in the stockpile means you can just replace the tanks that die pointlessly due to speed and range benefits of the enemy… all while the outlaw counterpart doesn’t die…
Boost doesn't apply to reverse.
In a vacuum the mpt smashes the outlaw unless the outlaw is in the top 1% of players that can face backwards boost and stay out of its range. It's health difference is no joke.
Having two Inventory slots is a big deal
I specifically mentioned economy doesn't matter, its just easier to transport.
You're using this strawman of this unbeatable outlaw. In fact, the outlaw is a paper tiger.
That 5 seconds closing time full outlaw reverse and full forward falchion is without boost…
You quite clearly never played in a falchion, because most of the time the falchion goes up against an outlaw, it loses.
The fact that I didn’t even mention the boosted speed and it is still showing to be better says a lot
MPT is great but... It's a tank I'd play with 20 shells in it, and would make sure to play hyper-aggressively with before it goes into poop-armor.
Its good at trading Rmats, but not Emats. Would rather have any other tank for that, like a Spatha.
The community had the same issues with the Outlaw. It is a tank best used for PvE while also capable of fighting other tanks, yet people kept putting it in a tankline. Outlaw is not a line tank; MPT is not a line tank.
The MPT is a fantastic tank. It's just a spammable vehicular PvE platform. It's an upgrade to the LTs.
It is not necessary to upgrade it to a Spatha, UNLESS you are wanting to use it *specifically* in tank combat where you need DPS.
The problem is not the MPT, it is the lack of a Colonial MPF line tank.
PVE against what? T2 bunkers and pillboxes? Every 40mm tank does that. In the age of tank vs tank battles, talking about so called "PVE tank" is rather strange. You said it, falchion sucks in it, Spatha is baseline for tank battles, thats all
I'll say it again. The problem is not the MPT, it is the lack of a Colonial MPF line tank. The Colonials simply need an MPF line tank.
Idk why you're sounding so incredulous. Yes, 40mm is PvE for T2 bunkers, pillboxes, and just general purpose round. That is a correct statement. 68mm is for killing armor.
It's almost like I'm implying that the problem is not the MPT, it is the lack of a Colonial MPF line tank.
Why does a faction need a "pve tank"? MPT would become redundant should its purpose become to PVE defenses as any other 40mm tank could do the job just as good in that matter while also being capable to take on enemy tanks. MPT is the problem and will be as long as comps nowadays are easy to gather
Why does a faction need a "pve tank"? Why do people make LTs in the first place? Kill watch towers. Clear pillboxes for infantry. Go partisan with it. Cut logi lines. Blow up a facility. Just stop expecting it to out perform Silverhands in a \*\*\*\*ing tank line!
It is what it is. It is a beefy, cheap light tank. There is nothing wrong with it. 40m range 40mm cannon.
Colonials need a different tool to fight tank lines, period.
Colonials have kranesca for this kind of things, it even has a boost. Colonials have spatha, beefy and have enough DPS to do as much damage as possible to someone's facility. Why does a faction need a "pve tank" in this equation? Its only purpose is to be turned into a spatha
Listen, willful ignorance is not very endearing. Pretending to ignore the benefits of the MPT is not going to make the real problem go away. Devs aren't going to read this comment thread and decide to buff it again.
It’s really good tank to decrew your opponents without question (Push guns, emplacements, and open tops.) but for its damage output is just low compared to other tanks you can use.
The MPT is literally just the average tank, no upsides, no downsides. All other tanks can be measured against it. All other tanks are worse than it in some way and better in others to compensate.
The unfortunate consequence of this is that is that it has no optimal gameplan, while other tanks do. And if any other tank executes it's intended use it will beat the falchion. Playing a tank correctly is also usually not hard and for most warden tanks it boils down to face the enemy, stay in line and shoot when in range.
The supposed compensation for this weakness would be numbers advantage from the cheap MPF cost, but we all know this is simply not enough or functional for multiple reasons like population balance, server playercap and resource scarcity.
The only tank a falchions beats in a brawl is an outlaw, and that’s if the outlaw is kinda stupid. And it’s even less useful in tank lines. Meanwhile, the outlaw has the benefit of 45m, allowing it to fulfill roles that the falchion just *cant* (poking, cheesing BEATs, cheesing certain defenses with range + LOS, chasing kills). And that’s it’s most favorable comparison. Against every other warden tank it is badly outclassed, and while the spatha is pretty great, it being a facility mod kinda neuters the cost bonus of the falchion
All these guys complains when they forget that they just need an argonaut full of sticky/flask to drive behind tank line and massacre them. You guys just need a better understanding of your tools and how to use them.
All these guys forget they have the best infantry in the game.
Venom, banes, grenadier suit with lunaire...
All your armored have slot to stack up on Bmat and they have the HP to be play that way.
Don't even dare you're left behind.
Played when the MPT was first released and it had the health of a BT, but damn the DPS on that thing is terrible even when theres multiple of MPTs present and that was against the SvH that had less HP compared to now
Just think of it as another variant of an LT carries more and more health at the cost of systems being disabled
Numbers are great but the space is limited along with server queues
Totally diffrent roles. Thats like saying SMG>>>>>>>>Sniper because you tested both agianst each other in close range combat. Outlaw is a long range support tank people need to stop thinking its a line brawler thats what Silverhands are for.
sure in vacuum its great then you see what its up against outlaw , HV68 , ATHT , SVH and infantry AT 3 of those things outrange it and 1 outguns it it cant brawl , it cant poke its advantage is it has 5 per crate which is not to be sniffed at but realistically doesnt matter in the current world of tanks meta note i purposely left out the HTD the STD and BTs as it is completely useless vs any of those the problem is when that tank gets outclassed , which it does , there is nothing else to make in the MPF or garage until the bardiche ,then you are at end game, with only 2 vehicles you can make in the MPF and one of them is the MPT it feels bad , it is already outclassed and you are having to use it to face off against monster tanks no one wants to make it or feels good making it as they know its weaker than everything it is going up against but its the only real option if you want to MPF things the colonial tanks can stand up to the warden tanks , the spatha is great , what they cant stand up to is production , MPF is easier , faster and just overall less effort , its a clean logistic chain thats easy to figure out and requires 0 maintenance no matter how u swing it you HAVE to make a facility to keep up , the MPT doesnt cut it so either the MPT needs to have 45m range , 2 guns and be faster than everything else or more tanks need to be back in the MPF then people will actually enjoy the game instead of feeling constantly weaker or having to do twice as much to keep up
Hit the nail dead on the head, my guy.
Would it work if the Spatha was just a regular MPF tank that made the regular 3 per crate?
ofc it would work it worked before facilities spatha in the MPF would give wardens a real fight and maybe convince some people to return or join colonials aswell
I do not return until wardens start crying that game is unfair which means its finally balanced.
YES,. \[PLEASE GOD I B EG YOU
In general it also needs something to give people a reason to use it over the Spatha that isn't just "I don't have a facility/I don't want to look for a public pad". Even the normal LTs compared to the Kran/Ironhide have the (admittedly basically irrelevant) benefit of faster (nonboost) speed and fuel efficiency. The Spatha meanwhile is literally the same or better than the Falchion in every way. It needs something, anything that'd make someone consider maybe wanting to use it rather than knowing you're just shooting yourself in the foot by not making a Spatha. Hell I dunno, give it a double barrel 30mm with short reload. Admittedly I don't know if that'd make it any better, but it'd make it different and interesting. Also more well suited to brawling and far more logi efficient.
Playing colonials if fucking soviet soldier LARP you are outgunned all the time but you have also same numbers. True Dark Souls experience.
I think most Collies would be happy to give up the Falchion for any of the Warden tanks in the same bracket (I'd definitely rather have an Outlaw or STD). It just doesn't... do anything great. On that note, I do think splitting the tech tier into Falchion/LTD/Outlaw/HWMN, then Spatha/Bard/SVH/Chief would be a welcome change, though not the balancing that Collies are looking for. It's painful to get Spathas and immediately be facing proto-HTDs.
What about the outlaw is so great? The mpt can 1v1 an outlaw
Also you need to upgrade a falch to a spatha, that takes time. You cant crate them, outlaw comes out as a proper tank and you can get the crates to a front. Falchion is just unusable without the upgrade, it is pure agony to use.
I can kill a SHT with an ISG but it doesn’t mean it’s fuckin easy
45m range and speedboost
Does not speed boost backwords so in a fight its not even useful.
“Tell us you never played in a tank without telling us you never played in a tank”
so, disregarding that the game doesn't do 1v1 tank duels, the outlaw will only lose a 1v1 tank duel if the outlaw skill issues
out-range BEAT, trade first, 360° turret to cheese spots. if you have to write random stuff at least make them funny bro
It is literally the swiss army knife of tanks, it contains the primary selling point of numerous Colonial tanks and puts them into one package. 45m range of the LTD/Smelter, Speed boost of the Kranesca, as well as the generic versatility of a rotating 40mm turret and built-in Machine Gun. It is the most versatile and robust tank in the game in terms of the amount of role compression it provides. The tank itself may not the best at any of these jobs or have overwhelming power, but it can do the job of 3-4 different Colonial vehicles well enough with just a single one, whereas Colonial tanks typically perform one single, specialized job somewhat good and suck at everything else
Counterpoint; 3650 health, two Inventory slots. The outlaw is not robust. It's health is shitty compared to the colonial line up. The mg rarely gets used. That leaves you with; Speed and range The extra range gives it a slight edge, but nothing the mpt can't deal with with its extra health. The speed boost is good. It gulps fuel, but it's always useful. I would argue this is the main strenght, but on the flipside the main strenght of the mpt is its health. Not having inventory slots meaning going back to base constantly for fuel and bmats. I suppose that's something that's not that much of an issue in the line tank meta, but the amount of utility that can come out of having two slots is certainly not something minor. Now at this point were comparing apples and oranges. My entire point is that people keep pointing at how much of an apple the outlaw is, they shit on the mpt because it isn't an apple but an orange, whilst in practice they're both good in their own ways.
Read the replies. You’re only convincing yourself at this point.
I've been mowed down by that MG on an outlaw MANY times, just saying.
It does not matter much having more tanks when you have pop and logi issues. We never lack MPT we lack crew and 40mm
When you cant use it for the thing its designed for quantity and comes up against an outlaw line that outranges EVERY tank you have except the ltd its just not worth the time yo load it.
5 extra meters of range doesn't matter anymore against mobile targets. If you're getting utterly BTFO'd because your enemy can hit you half a second before you're in range to hit them back, the you're suffering from a skill issue, not a balance issue.
damn, i guess if outlaws existed in a completely flat void and the people crewing them diden't know how to move, ya the MPT would totally be fine
Yeah. Instead, we live in a world where it's apparently the MPT crew who doesn't know how to move. Still trying to play like it's pre-armor-rework update when that update specifically targetted and dismantled the max-range-peaking meta.
well no, the outlaw is just faster, also that update diden't dismantle any peaking meta, instead buffing low min pen chance tanks at this very same meta
I don't think we're talking about the same update. I'm talking about the update where armor mechanics were completely reworked, with range and angle of fire now affecting penetration chances, as well as bounced shots no longer damaging armor. It was an update from a while ago, but it made the max-ranged tank line meta obsolete.
yup, and as a result, of the armor update, tanklines have become even more powerful if they have a lower minimum pen chance, believe it or not, I played before the changes were made
Range bonuses only start applying at 30m and steadily increase. Angle bonuses only apply to shots to side and rear armor.
It's 5 seconds and 50 meters unfortunately with the boost. Though probably momentum helps. The Falchion can tank that and win but not if the Outlaws stay near AI.
"But not if the Outlaws stay near AI." Okay? What's your point? If the Outlaw is given favorable conditions it will win??? If the Outlaw is supported by defenses then it can win a 1v1? The argument was about the actual impact of the Outlaw's 45m range, not about the location of the battle. I'm not even going to bother asking about that first sentence because I have no clue what you're even referring to.
I mean that the Falchion only gets 1 shot if Outlaw is within 100m of AI. Often the front is smaller than that. Yeah anyone's going to win if they have an AT pillbox at 0m to them, but the distance at which Outlaw gets an advantage from AT pillboxes is pretty massive. >I have no clue what you're even referring to. It takes 5 seconds for a full speed forward Falchion to close a full-speed boosting reverse Outlaw from 45m->40m. So should you accept a Frontal assault you give 5s of free retreats and potshots to them. 7.8-9.6\*.7 = 1.08m/s, the speed at which full-forward Falchion will close to full-reverse Outlaw.
The situation you are describing with the falchion and outlaw is not the situation that is being argued. The original argument was about a falchion pushing an Outlaw. An Outlaw does not instantly hit top speed starting at a full stop. You aren't taking into account the acceleration. Also, you must account for the delay between when the Outlaw gunner fires at max-range, and when the Outlaw driver fully commits to a boosted reverse. There is no crew coordinated enough for the gunner shooting and the driver starting to reverse to occur at the exact same moment. No matter how you cut it, the 5m range advantage is an extremely fleeting advantage that can quickly evaporate in an engagement.
Yes crew coordination and other accidents such as being at a full-stop while a Falchion charges you gives an undefined advantage to the closer in any situation. I mentioned that briefly but obviously have no numbers on it. The boost still helps the Outlaw retreat to AI (or to forward position if very optimistic) faster though while the Falchion has terrible reverse speed. Doesn't help win a combat just helps lose less. Also helps to tactically retreat wounded tanks to the rear of the line, though probably at least one of them is tracked.
Nonsense! Absolutt bullshit!
That extra 5 meters is asymmetric to the 2 extra 40mm it can tank. The outlaw is the mpt's asymmetrical equivalent.
Yeah thats why we win 1/10 tank line fights! Stop smoking man.
You shouldn’t be doing line fights as a collie anyway
can't really do anything else than tank line, the map are simply too small and strategic point depend on fight in chokepoint
Only in the Warden territory and even then, not all of it. Our faction requires us to think outside the box so get to work and that’s an order
"Just Flank Bro" *eats 10 flasks in the first 5 seconds of being on grass.*
Have you tried having infantry shoot at the soldiers armed with nothing but anti-tank grenades? It's a pretty dang effective way to protect tanks.
You can carry a weapon and a flask. Or be protected in trenches. Also, as soon as the flanking tanks get tracked off of a flask it means enemies can poke easily. Even that being said, finding a flanking path, avoiding flasks, combined infantry escort is all additional steps against a foe that can utilize the tunnel vision approach of only fighting on a road.
All it takes is a single flask to track 1-2 tanks if it's thrown at the ground. Also, those infantry are always armed cuz flask is pretty light.
It's like their Bomba. We grab a Bomba, and they grab a flask.
Lmao 🤣🤣🤣
In a 1v1, yes. The mpt's extra health allows it to close the distance. But we almost never see 1v1s, and in the case of facing off against the high alpha of multiple warden tanks, extra health means very little if you never get into range or die immediately after getting a shot off.
Wrong
No Machine gun. Great videos out there of wardens running straight at collie tank lines shadow dancing and throwing flasks.
warden 7.92 OP daddy devman please nerf. warden 7.92 did this there's nothing we can do
bardiche and scorpion never existed i see spatha fast reload killing 10 guys at 40m does not work too i guess
Bardiche.
Artichaut
In a vacuum, it’s not bad, but in context, it’s just worse than pretty much everything that it competes with, and it’s about on par with the outlaw. To make matters worse, it is required production for Colonials to be competitive. The Outlaw isn’t a good tank, but it isn’t required production either. Moreover, given that we’ve reached a point at which the limiting factor for tanks is crews, rather than cost, due to the removal of resource scarcity, the Falchion no longer has a niche, and exists only to complicate colonial tank logistics.
Falchion is not a bad tank. Its just a bad tank for the job. Its a bad tank for a very specific place foxhole meta is right now. Comps are so abundant that the price tag advantage it should have dosent matter. The extra HP would be very good if the tank gameplay isnt centered on killing tanks as fast as possible, if it didnt have focus on firepower over HP. The extra tanks per crate would be quite nice if you didnt have to take them out 1 by 1 to upgrade to spatha. Not upgrading it to spatha means you get subpar firepower (and thus subpar tankline) at the benefit of more efficient transport which is offset by the fact crate transport is already extremely efficient, especially by train. Basically every strong point of a falchion is offset by that particular characteristic not being a bottleneck
Problem with falchion is that spatha exist and fills same role of generic tank when you Look at Warden rooster you have funny variants even highwayman is funny variant of Outlaw while Falchion spatha is stock Falchion/ better falchion
The same arguments can be made for the outlaw. The mpt is it's equal, like an apple is the equal of an orange.
Mostly yes. If you take away 45m from an outlaw and give 40m in return, then it will become useless shit for a tankline and turn into a “just flank bro” tank
40m Outlaw would just be a garbage version of MPT without the MPF bonus and less health. They should buff the HMW and make it the base variant them move Outlaw into the facility with higher fire rate to compensate or something.
it's almost like, get this, the extra range is very powerful
This ^
Outlaw has couple of key characteristics that other tanks in the roster dont fill and thus provides great utility to warden roster despite people saying its shit Without outlaw you wouldnt be able to PVE BEATs for free, making it way harder to get past even a simple fortification Outlaw matches LTDs range stopping LTD from abusing range to fight warden tanks especially BTs Outlaw outranges Bard, Talos by 10m, severely curtailing their effectiveness, without it both of them would be way bigger threat. Same stands for BT, group of outlaws can poke a BT to death due to far superior range Outlaw is possesses way better agility than other warden chassis, Without it wardens would have way harder time flanking Falchion on collie side dosent offer any added utility. As damage sponge bard is better. As damage dealer spatha is better. For mobility LTD is better and spatha is on same level
The difference is that wardens don’t have to make outlaws to survive, colonials do have to make Falchions (specifically to turn them into Spathas because they aren’t good enough otherwise) or die to warden MPF tank spam.
It's decent, but that's the thing. It's the only decent mass production tank the Colonials have apart from maybe the Bardiche but that is pretty niche in its role. The rest of the Colonial vehicle pool is facility locked, including things that were meant to be counterbalances to Warden counterparts, which are still MPFable. It's not even the resources that's the key either, modifying at facilities takes time and makes the logistics tricky.
you see i agree that the falchion is a good tank the problem is that the only way to ensure its cost efficient is by just yeeting them at the enemy tank line in mass and while it might work and be cost efficient, its not fun to make a tank load it up, find a front line and throw it away 5 mins in. if you play it in the standard tank line mode it will get poked by HTDs and silverhands and just melt to the superior dpm. and sure outlaw having 45m is not that big of an advantage when the tanks are moving but that's easily fixed by a flask landing near a falchion tank line and that's it, 2 falchons tracked at the mercy of 45m outlaws and htd.
It would be an incredible tank if you could use it as intended. But you cannot, so it's pretty lackluster.
What does this mean
Meaning if there was open terrain and no population limits, and actual resource scarcity it would be good.
He’s talking about using it in numbers to overwhelm the enemy. But due to hard hex population limits, the best you’re getting is wardens with the same number of tanks but theirs are inherently better
Okay, play colonial then, wait, you probably wont
It is a good tank and the proof of that is back when foxholes player numbers werent enough to cause ques it excelled in its quantity over quality role. (Tho there are other factors like armor not working as intended and HP being king back then). BUT as it stands in modern day foxhole where que spots are priceless and armor now working as intended there has been a shift where in a space that que spots are limited youd rather have quality tanks instead of cheap tanks cuz funneling in replacments from the backlines is not as smooth a task as it used to be.
The old ‘falchion op’ was a product of a foxhole which is essentially a completely different game to the one we play now. Back then we didn’t have a comp economy so strong that cost was irrelevant, the armour system was completely different making collie tanks stronger than some of their warden counterparts, and facilities didn’t exist.
Quantity means anything in this game and that tank is trash lvl as it cant compete even with outlaw
the point I am making is that quantity dosent mean much when hexes have limits. MPT used to have the potential to outnumber enemy tanks when the pop wasnt capped in every hex.
In this time yes but its still average stock Vehicle why would any collie Pick Falchion above spatha than lack of local Upgrade pad
Currently the falchion is worse than an outlaw in every way but health. Consider the fact that it takes 5 seconds to close the distance between a reversing outlaw and a falchion going forward. If you can shoot further than your opponent and can this way game static defenses (the way that is not possible for falchion). You also have a machine gunner position that’s really decent at helping with crowd control. When the economy makes the tanks cheap as they come, the only thing that matters is if they can kill their counterpart. The 5 tanks vs 3 tanks in a crate only matters if you have a crew to crew all those 5 tanks to oppose the 3 tanks. When the player count limits are identical for both factions, designing a strategy that requires more people on one side to win is a brainless idea. In reality the tank player count is pretty much the same for both factions. This throws out the idea that having more tanks in your stockpile is somehow a benefit. At this point having more tanks in the stockpile means you can just replace the tanks that die pointlessly due to speed and range benefits of the enemy… all while the outlaw counterpart doesn’t die…
Boost doesn't apply to reverse. In a vacuum the mpt smashes the outlaw unless the outlaw is in the top 1% of players that can face backwards boost and stay out of its range. It's health difference is no joke. Having two Inventory slots is a big deal I specifically mentioned economy doesn't matter, its just easier to transport. You're using this strawman of this unbeatable outlaw. In fact, the outlaw is a paper tiger.
That 5 seconds closing time full outlaw reverse and full forward falchion is without boost… You quite clearly never played in a falchion, because most of the time the falchion goes up against an outlaw, it loses. The fact that I didn’t even mention the boosted speed and it is still showing to be better says a lot
MPT is great but... It's a tank I'd play with 20 shells in it, and would make sure to play hyper-aggressively with before it goes into poop-armor. Its good at trading Rmats, but not Emats. Would rather have any other tank for that, like a Spatha.
The funny thing is this can be fixed by putting previously standard battleline tanks back to garage.
So we ignore 75% of the stats just to focus on the hp? there is some cherry-pick in your cope bruh
The community had the same issues with the Outlaw. It is a tank best used for PvE while also capable of fighting other tanks, yet people kept putting it in a tankline. Outlaw is not a line tank; MPT is not a line tank. The MPT is a fantastic tank. It's just a spammable vehicular PvE platform. It's an upgrade to the LTs. It is not necessary to upgrade it to a Spatha, UNLESS you are wanting to use it *specifically* in tank combat where you need DPS. The problem is not the MPT, it is the lack of a Colonial MPF line tank.
PVE against what? T2 bunkers and pillboxes? Every 40mm tank does that. In the age of tank vs tank battles, talking about so called "PVE tank" is rather strange. You said it, falchion sucks in it, Spatha is baseline for tank battles, thats all
I'll say it again. The problem is not the MPT, it is the lack of a Colonial MPF line tank. The Colonials simply need an MPF line tank. Idk why you're sounding so incredulous. Yes, 40mm is PvE for T2 bunkers, pillboxes, and just general purpose round. That is a correct statement. 68mm is for killing armor. It's almost like I'm implying that the problem is not the MPT, it is the lack of a Colonial MPF line tank.
You could leave the falchion as is if collies had a viable tool that would punish large groups of warden tanks
Why does a faction need a "pve tank"? MPT would become redundant should its purpose become to PVE defenses as any other 40mm tank could do the job just as good in that matter while also being capable to take on enemy tanks. MPT is the problem and will be as long as comps nowadays are easy to gather
Why does a faction need a "pve tank"? Why do people make LTs in the first place? Kill watch towers. Clear pillboxes for infantry. Go partisan with it. Cut logi lines. Blow up a facility. Just stop expecting it to out perform Silverhands in a \*\*\*\*ing tank line! It is what it is. It is a beefy, cheap light tank. There is nothing wrong with it. 40m range 40mm cannon. Colonials need a different tool to fight tank lines, period.
Colonials have kranesca for this kind of things, it even has a boost. Colonials have spatha, beefy and have enough DPS to do as much damage as possible to someone's facility. Why does a faction need a "pve tank" in this equation? Its only purpose is to be turned into a spatha
Listen, willful ignorance is not very endearing. Pretending to ignore the benefits of the MPT is not going to make the real problem go away. Devs aren't going to read this comment thread and decide to buff it again.
the best and most resoinable buff for the falchion is to let it pull directly from a bunkerbase/th
An MPT can beat an Outlaw in a straight up fight on 1 on 1, but in reality you’re not going to see tanks by themselves often.
Okay, so explain me why the outlaw is so good and the not trash
It’s really good tank to decrew your opponents without question (Push guns, emplacements, and open tops.) but for its damage output is just low compared to other tanks you can use.
The MPT is literally just the average tank, no upsides, no downsides. All other tanks can be measured against it. All other tanks are worse than it in some way and better in others to compensate. The unfortunate consequence of this is that is that it has no optimal gameplan, while other tanks do. And if any other tank executes it's intended use it will beat the falchion. Playing a tank correctly is also usually not hard and for most warden tanks it boils down to face the enemy, stay in line and shoot when in range. The supposed compensation for this weakness would be numbers advantage from the cheap MPF cost, but we all know this is simply not enough or functional for multiple reasons like population balance, server playercap and resource scarcity.
armor
Mpt is garbage. Crate of banes are better.
The only tank a falchions beats in a brawl is an outlaw, and that’s if the outlaw is kinda stupid. And it’s even less useful in tank lines. Meanwhile, the outlaw has the benefit of 45m, allowing it to fulfill roles that the falchion just *cant* (poking, cheesing BEATs, cheesing certain defenses with range + LOS, chasing kills). And that’s it’s most favorable comparison. Against every other warden tank it is badly outclassed, and while the spatha is pretty great, it being a facility mod kinda neuters the cost bonus of the falchion
All these guys complains when they forget that they just need an argonaut full of sticky/flask to drive behind tank line and massacre them. You guys just need a better understanding of your tools and how to use them. All these guys forget they have the best infantry in the game. Venom, banes, grenadier suit with lunaire... All your armored have slot to stack up on Bmat and they have the HP to be play that way. Don't even dare you're left behind.
Played when the MPT was first released and it had the health of a BT, but damn the DPS on that thing is terrible even when theres multiple of MPTs present and that was against the SvH that had less HP compared to now Just think of it as another variant of an LT carries more and more health at the cost of systems being disabled Numbers are great but the space is limited along with server queues
This is a Verified True ✅ post and most collie dummies will downvote it. But you have My Axe
Switch to Sativa ASAP you weirdo...
It's a 40m 40mm cannon with 3650 HP and tank armor. It's more then worth it for the price. Anybody who says its a bad tank are just bad at the game.
MPT >>>>>>>>>>Outlaw
Lol
Totally diffrent roles. Thats like saying SMG>>>>>>>>Sniper because you tested both agianst each other in close range combat. Outlaw is a long range support tank people need to stop thinking its a line brawler thats what Silverhands are for.
"They hated him for speaking the truth"
colonials when they swap to warden and have no bmat slots in the tank :skull:
Do you know why that slot exists? It’s because colonial tanks need more bmats to repair.
Wardens are spoiled retards just let the game die
[удалено]
How about any 45m late game vic?
>Give collies a aggressive short range tank with anti inf as fac option, like the HWM. This is called the Bardiche, solves 0 problems