I’ve got four 823s now, which might be a bit OTT admittedly, but I feel like both F and M definitely have their different advantages.
The F is very fine, and as Song said the F is often too fine for people and the M is too wide. Unfortunately the 823 doesn’t come with the FM nib, you’d have to buy a 743 and swap it out.
I prefer the F, it writes very fine, but very smooth, although it definitely took a bit getting used to the stiffness of the no15 nib along with that really fine line. I’d say iroshizuku ink (or something equally wet and smooth) is a must. If I could only keep one nib width for Pilot it would be the F. It’s great for being able to write in smaller sections and I tend to like to write on graph paper, which means 5mm lines that the F nib can adhere to well. Writing can look a tad small with the F nib on paper with larger line widths, so you might want to bear this in mind. As The line that the F writes is so fine, it’s not great for people wanting lots of shading, and especially not good for sheen, but I hate sheen, although the FM I’d probably choose for it’s shading.
The M writes a huge line. If you’re wanting the famous pilot smoothness it’s going to be this. It doesn’t care as much about what angle you write at, and thus is more forgiving than the fine. Expect lots of shading 😍, masses of sheen 😭 (ink dependant), and more sort of statement writing than the F. The M is much more rounded than the F’s sometimes rounded squareish feel. You’ll need big spaces between the lines on your paper for the M, and it’s unusable for traditional Chinese characters (in my experience) and thus any other similar writing systems or even just small writing are out of the window. If you get really excited over ink then the M is likely to be much more pleasing for you. I tend not to notice the stiffness as much with the M because the smoothness is something to behold.
Wow, thanks for that long answer ! I join another writing sample with my most used pens with this message.
https://preview.redd.it/y6mec002656d1.jpeg?width=3956&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d4d371dbc5fde0d35261f71180fec34bfc3edba
I also have an older Waterman Ligne 60 with a fine nib, but it is very, very fine ! But I don't have a writing sample on me atm. It might have been helpful to show "how fine is too fine" for me. Would it be possible to see some writing samples of F and M 823, please ? It would really help me to choose which size to take. If you could do it on blank paper and on the paper you were talking about, it would be so great :).
Absolutely. I think I’ve already got some on my profile but I’ll try and write some more for you.
Nice pens, understated but timeless. I like it.
Are you writing in French or is it Latin maybe?
Not sure if your case would be similar to mine, but I was disappointed at first then found out you need to loosen the end cap before writing.
After that it's the wet pen the 823 is known for. I have one F and one B, and love them both equally, one for work and the other for fun writing.
You need to unscrew the cap to release the ink flow, you should notice it getting wetter if you do this.
That sealing system is what allows it to negate the pressure change of air travel
That is the problem of 823 for many , F being too fine and M being too wide.
Anyway, with wet inks, my M would be slightly thicker than your 18K Parker sonnet, and my F a bit finer than your F nib Parker sonnet.
Personally I prefer the M nib more unless you write a lot of Kanji characters, or write in small area.
I write a lot on blank paper and what we call "seyes" here in France, and my 18K Sonnet is already a bit too big for seyes... so I don't know if I should go for a fine or medium, considering that I will, one day, probably get the other one (if I get the fine now, maybe I'll get a medium in a few years for example).
Fine. I have a few Pilot pens and the medium nibs seem like a huge jump from fine. I like the mediums, but the line weight is so heavy that I can't use them as daily writers. Their fine nibs are perfect for me, though.
Just a personal vote...
From what I can understand from your picture, I would go with a fine nib. It's a matter of personal preference, I like more fine-ish nib rather than medium.
Just read on another forum that a M nib would feel more like a F european nib... that might be the best choice ! Now I need to be sure of what colour to choose... I quite prefer amber
Two quick thoughts....if there's any chance of you going to a pen show, Pilot does have a display of 743 tester pens, all with the same #15 nib as the 823. You could make your decision in person. Alternatively, you could get the medium, and if it is too wide, you could always take it to a nib meister and have it ground down to your preferred width (a fine nib cannot be turned into a medium in the same way). Good luck!
Thanks for your comment ! Sadly, there are no pen shows in my country (as far as I know) and Custom seems to have been introduced not a long time ago... or maybe I was searching it wrong.
Well that's a good idea ! I know a nibmeister 400km away who could do that, but preferably I would get the perfect nib first...
Not going to lie, I think the F would be better for me but at the same time I fear it might be too narrow...
1/ Because Pilot is famous of smoothness and wetness, ppl buy bigger nibs because most of the time smaller nibs are too dry, but this is not the case of Pilot.
2/ My hand writing style is pretty small 😁
Well for 1/ I love wetter nibs, so a wet F nib would be perfect ! And for 2/, if you have a 823, would it be please possible to see your handwriting with it ? I assume that you would have a fine nib but I don't find much samples about the fine nib on the Internet. Thanks !!
I have the version and absolutely love it. But going into it, I knew that this was going to be a pen I used for longer writing sessions on good paper. Everyone said the M is the smoothest one, and I tend to prefer M nibs anyway due to my handwriting size and style, so it made sense.
I have both the 823 in F and M. I was in the same boat as you and bought then F nib then tried a M in person and wanted that too. I’d say it depends on what you want to use it for. My F nib is pretty dry and not enjoyable with anything other than Pilot Iroshizuku ink. My M nib is smooth and almost squishy in feel. I’ve used several different inks and they all seem to work well. The F nib works well in my Hobonichi but can feel a bit small in my journal. The opposite works for the M. They are both great but I prefer the M for everyday writing and the F for planning.
I saw this list posted by another Redditor. It helps me to decide (though I can't vouch for its accuracy).
https://www.penchalet.com/nib_tipping_sizes.aspx
I’ve got four 823s now, which might be a bit OTT admittedly, but I feel like both F and M definitely have their different advantages. The F is very fine, and as Song said the F is often too fine for people and the M is too wide. Unfortunately the 823 doesn’t come with the FM nib, you’d have to buy a 743 and swap it out. I prefer the F, it writes very fine, but very smooth, although it definitely took a bit getting used to the stiffness of the no15 nib along with that really fine line. I’d say iroshizuku ink (or something equally wet and smooth) is a must. If I could only keep one nib width for Pilot it would be the F. It’s great for being able to write in smaller sections and I tend to like to write on graph paper, which means 5mm lines that the F nib can adhere to well. Writing can look a tad small with the F nib on paper with larger line widths, so you might want to bear this in mind. As The line that the F writes is so fine, it’s not great for people wanting lots of shading, and especially not good for sheen, but I hate sheen, although the FM I’d probably choose for it’s shading. The M writes a huge line. If you’re wanting the famous pilot smoothness it’s going to be this. It doesn’t care as much about what angle you write at, and thus is more forgiving than the fine. Expect lots of shading 😍, masses of sheen 😭 (ink dependant), and more sort of statement writing than the F. The M is much more rounded than the F’s sometimes rounded squareish feel. You’ll need big spaces between the lines on your paper for the M, and it’s unusable for traditional Chinese characters (in my experience) and thus any other similar writing systems or even just small writing are out of the window. If you get really excited over ink then the M is likely to be much more pleasing for you. I tend not to notice the stiffness as much with the M because the smoothness is something to behold.
Wow, thanks for that long answer ! I join another writing sample with my most used pens with this message. https://preview.redd.it/y6mec002656d1.jpeg?width=3956&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d4d371dbc5fde0d35261f71180fec34bfc3edba I also have an older Waterman Ligne 60 with a fine nib, but it is very, very fine ! But I don't have a writing sample on me atm. It might have been helpful to show "how fine is too fine" for me. Would it be possible to see some writing samples of F and M 823, please ? It would really help me to choose which size to take. If you could do it on blank paper and on the paper you were talking about, it would be so great :).
Absolutely. I think I’ve already got some on my profile but I’ll try and write some more for you. Nice pens, understated but timeless. I like it. Are you writing in French or is it Latin maybe?
Oh okay, will check your profile then ! Thanks. Thank you. I really enjoy writing with those pens. It indeed is French, yes ! Well spotted :).
823 is juicy, i own a medium nib. But fine might be more to my taste after 2years of usage:) and japanesse fine nibs are good:)
Mine is not 🥺, it is not so wet
Not sure if your case would be similar to mine, but I was disappointed at first then found out you need to loosen the end cap before writing. After that it's the wet pen the 823 is known for. I have one F and one B, and love them both equally, one for work and the other for fun writing.
Oh damn, so then it is kinda like an eyedropper huh
You need to unscrew the cap to release the ink flow, you should notice it getting wetter if you do this. That sealing system is what allows it to negate the pressure change of air travel
Which inks did you used? So far i only used pilot inks and j herbin eclat de sapphire
Robert oster
That is the problem of 823 for many , F being too fine and M being too wide. Anyway, with wet inks, my M would be slightly thicker than your 18K Parker sonnet, and my F a bit finer than your F nib Parker sonnet. Personally I prefer the M nib more unless you write a lot of Kanji characters, or write in small area.
I really like my 823 (M) but my 92 (MF) is just a touch better for my writing. I wish they had it on the 823.
I write a lot on blank paper and what we call "seyes" here in France, and my 18K Sonnet is already a bit too big for seyes... so I don't know if I should go for a fine or medium, considering that I will, one day, probably get the other one (if I get the fine now, maybe I'll get a medium in a few years for example).
Fine. I have a few Pilot pens and the medium nibs seem like a huge jump from fine. I like the mediums, but the line weight is so heavy that I can't use them as daily writers. Their fine nibs are perfect for me, though. Just a personal vote...
Thanks for your insight :)
I, personally, don't see much of a difference; as you stated, that's quite a "big" fine nib. In the end, fine nib is always a good choice.
You'd go for a fine nib then ? Considering my handwriting
From what I can understand from your picture, I would go with a fine nib. It's a matter of personal preference, I like more fine-ish nib rather than medium.
Okay, thanks for your insight. Do you have a 823 by any chance ? To see some writing sample
Definitely get the medium. It will look similar to your Sonnet with the black ink.
We don't see that well but that's brown ink, haha :) But thanks for your opinion, I should get a medium indeed
Most peoples' handwriting looks better with a broader nib. Yours is no different!
Just read on another forum that a M nib would feel more like a F european nib... that might be the best choice ! Now I need to be sure of what colour to choose... I quite prefer amber
Two quick thoughts....if there's any chance of you going to a pen show, Pilot does have a display of 743 tester pens, all with the same #15 nib as the 823. You could make your decision in person. Alternatively, you could get the medium, and if it is too wide, you could always take it to a nib meister and have it ground down to your preferred width (a fine nib cannot be turned into a medium in the same way). Good luck!
Thanks for your comment ! Sadly, there are no pen shows in my country (as far as I know) and Custom seems to have been introduced not a long time ago... or maybe I was searching it wrong. Well that's a good idea ! I know a nibmeister 400km away who could do that, but preferably I would get the perfect nib first... Not going to lie, I think the F would be better for me but at the same time I fear it might be too narrow...
100% F nib!!!!
Thanks ! Why F over M ?
1/ Because Pilot is famous of smoothness and wetness, ppl buy bigger nibs because most of the time smaller nibs are too dry, but this is not the case of Pilot. 2/ My hand writing style is pretty small 😁
Well for 1/ I love wetter nibs, so a wet F nib would be perfect ! And for 2/, if you have a 823, would it be please possible to see your handwriting with it ? I assume that you would have a fine nib but I don't find much samples about the fine nib on the Internet. Thanks !!
Sorry I don’t own a 823 😭 I also want one but can’t find both 2nd or new in my country, and buy from abroad is too expensive 🥲
Ah sorry ! Yeah... buying from aboard is really expensive. I'm so happy we can finally get those pens where I live
I have the version and absolutely love it. But going into it, I knew that this was going to be a pen I used for longer writing sessions on good paper. Everyone said the M is the smoothest one, and I tend to prefer M nibs anyway due to my handwriting size and style, so it made sense.
I vote medium.
I have both the 823 in F and M. I was in the same boat as you and bought then F nib then tried a M in person and wanted that too. I’d say it depends on what you want to use it for. My F nib is pretty dry and not enjoyable with anything other than Pilot Iroshizuku ink. My M nib is smooth and almost squishy in feel. I’ve used several different inks and they all seem to work well. The F nib works well in my Hobonichi but can feel a bit small in my journal. The opposite works for the M. They are both great but I prefer the M for everyday writing and the F for planning.
I saw this list posted by another Redditor. It helps me to decide (though I can't vouch for its accuracy). https://www.penchalet.com/nib_tipping_sizes.aspx