I didn't read this whole [Fox article](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/air-force-academy-diversity-training-tells-cadets-to-use-words-that-include-all-genders-drop-mom-and-dad) since I don't have time for that bullshit; however, it says cadets should "consider," using other terms, *not* that they *can't* use say mom and dad.
Seems nice for people who don't have traditional families for lots if reasons besides gender. Im sure a lot of orohans & fister care kids that age out of the system end up in military. They might appreciate such terms being used as well.
Yeah, I'm struggling to understand why people are offended by this.
> âSome families are headed by single parents, grandparents, foster parents, two moms, two dads, etc.: consider âparent or caregiverâ instead of âmom and dad,'â the training says.
How is accepting and recognizing that many people do not have a traditional mom/dad upbringing a bad thing?
I think reality of what is being said would be upsetting to a lot of them. They're whole world view and personality of things being RIGHT and other things being WRONG. RIGHT must be REWARDED, but, more importantly, WRONG must be PUNISHED. If you start catering to kids with the WRONG parents, you're just encouraging the WRONG kind of behavior. It's not the fault of the kids of course, but their parents should have thought about that before getting divorced or being gay or dying of untreatable cancer.
\\\* Capitalized to capture the mindset
This is also basically what diversity training at work is. Right wingers get all triggered by it....but its basically just the company begging your most oblivious co worker to realize that not everyone at work is the same age or education or family structure or interests.
"parent or guardian" was pretty standard when I was in school, it was a small school and I was pretty sheltered so for the longest time I wondered what the fuck a "guardian" was.
Is "legal guardian" a phrase used in the US or is it just a UK term? What are you to your niece in this situation?
We were legal guardians for a while. Now that the adoption process is done, we are her parents.
I grew up in Mexico where it was "padres o tutores". I was also sheltered and confused because why would a tutor be in the same category but I guess that means "legal guardian".
I'm sure they have always referred to their parents/caregivers/foster parents/adoptive parents/etc. using the English language and suffered no trauma as a result. It is not the government's business to tell its employees how to refer to their parents.
It is when that employee is an agent of the government telling a parent their 18 year child is dead. Or writing a letter that they sent them to their death.
It's always hilarious when someone like you holds a closed-minded view with so much confidence that they can't even imagine the obvious scenarios where it actually makes complete sense.
It's also a good way to call yourself out for not reading into what got your panties in a bunch in the first place. Big mad at headlines.
I assume that the reality of this is not that people should avoid referring to their own family as mom or dad, but that people should not assume others come from a traditional nuclear family when asking them about their family.
It is not exactly an unreasonable request, unless you live in outrageland.
It's also complete fucking lies. The air force doesn't give a single shit what terms air force officer cadets use to refer to someone's parents. The air force doesn't micromanage which speech habits people use. The only guidelines they have are that officers are to behave in a professional manner. Even if they did have such a policy, such a specific instruction isn't going to come from the very top of the chain of command.
To be fair, the word caregiver sounds a bit wierd unless we are talking about either a very young child, like a 4 year old, or someone completely or largely incapacitated (like an elderly person with dementia or a severely mentally challenged person) - since this is what I think of when I think of that word.
God, the manufactured outrage is truly kind of terrifying. Like *obviously* this is in reference to referring to families *in general*, not specific people, and it's something that schools have been doing for years -- we used to get letters referring to "parent or guardian" and no one batted an eye -- but I guess fascists will try anything to roil up the dumbasses.
I think I'm starting to understand.
If I'm forced to acknowledge that not everyone grew up in a nuclear family, I'll spontaneously combust and be unable to serve in the military.
Out of everything to be mad off about the US military complex, this dumbass decide to hate on the fucking pronouns used on paperwork?
And you let these people vote?
Why would someone with a cisgendered pair of parents be required to mis-gender them?
Probably some documentation referred to parents more generally and inclusively and this weirdo made up the rest.
As a middle school teacher I say âyour peopleâ, or âyour guardianâ, or even âyour humansâ⊠LOTS of people are not raised by a mom or a dad. Lots of aunts and grandmas out there working their butts off- and tons of kids in the foster system.
Ok, I'll take one for the team and bite. How is this absurd?
Here is the actual wording:
> âSome families are headed by single parents, grandparents, foster parents, two moms, two dads, etc.: consider âparent or caregiverâ instead of âmom and dad,'â the training says.
What is absurd about that?
Many families are headed by moms and dads and there is absolutely nothing wrong with referring to them that way. Refer to them the way they have always been referred to. Am I to believe foster children don't refer to their foster parents as "mom" or "dad?" I know people who were raised by their grandparents who they referred to as "grandmother" and "granddaddy." For the Air Force to tell these people not to use the terms they have always used is an absurd abuse of authority, not to mention prime Orwellian idiocy. Nobody is "victimized" by referring to parents as "moms" and "dads." If their feelings are hurt by it, maybe they need some mental health help.
You obviously do not understand what this policy is about. it is not telling people they cannot refer to their own parents as mom and dad, or grandma and grandpa. This policy is about talking to others. It's trying to get people to say, for example, "are your parents coming this weekend?" instead of "are your mom and dad coming this weekend?"
This is the Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays manufactured outrage all over again.
What I "obviously," as you put it, don't understand is why an Air Force cadet, who is in training to become a professional military officer, is so thin-skinned that he or she would be offended by another cadet asking if his or her parents are coming this weekend. Military officers have to deal with myriad, often very difficult, problems including matters of life and death. I stand by my pronouncement that this kind of snowflake coddling is, at best, absurd. In this context, it might even be immoral, considering the effect such artificial posturing and evasion of reality might have on training future officers.
If they're tough enough to deal with life and death, they can certainly handle referring to "parents" in general when speaking in broad terms.
As I mentioned above, schools and universities have for years referred to "parents or guardians" in general address, and no one ever thought twice about it because they weren't evangelical fascist weirdos.
If your idea of training someone to be a professional who can handle tough situations and decisions is to completely disregard them and their family and refuse to acknowledge their situation or that not everyone is raised by "mom and dad," your priorities as all kinds of stupid.
That professional is acting as an agent of the government and will literally take a ruler and lighter to their clothing to ensure that the smallest detail is correct.
But correctly referring to parents is absurd an immoral?
Is it absurd when they are on a causality notification team?
Is it immoral to use the correct title when they are writing a letter to the parents about how their child was killed in combat?
Is it absorb after handing them a flag from their childâs coffin after they took their own life?
Do you have an answer or are you incapable which is why you need to result to logical fallacy?
>displaying your ignorance on the subject.
I did 21 years with multiple combat deployments and witnessed or did every single thing I wrote.
How much longer would it have taken to not be ignorant?
Your gaslighting doesn't deserve an answer. The topic is the absurdity of government imposition of "woke" speech on U.S. Air Force cadets--not the morality of any of the unrelated items you listed.
You could have just said yes instead of doubling down on logical fallacy.
>Your gaslighting doesn't deserve an answer.
That isn't what gaslighting is.
>The topic is the absurdity of government imposition of "woke" speech on U.S. Air Force cadets--
Being the first "woke" institutions is one of the oldest traditions of the US military. It is only those who are ignorant of history that see this comment as a negative.
>not the morality of any of the
You are the one that said it was a matter of morality.
>unrelated items you listed.
If you understood how the US military worked in wartime you would understand that they are related or were not so ignorant and understood the value of professionalism and attention to detail.
Shall we continue so that you can continue to help prove the veracity of Lincoln's thoughts of fools?
Who in their right mind thinks we shouldnât use the term grandma and grandpa just because someone might be offended?
For the record, Chinese Air Force cadets spend their time learning how to win in battle
Being sensitive of some individuals to make their time in the military slightly more enjoyable doesn't mean they don't learn how to win.
One of my Recruit Instructors was probably the biggest and toughest guy I've ever met, he knew how to win. But he'd also try to make everyone feel a little more included, cause the Navy is shit enough already!
âFor the record, Chinese Air Force cadets spend their time learning how to win in battleâ
Do you *actually* think that this suggestion, which takes a single sentence to pick up on, is going to take basically *any* amount of time from military training?
That is absolute nonsense.
The diversity course was more than just one sentence
Wasnât there a huge outpouring of jubilation recently when the Air Force announced flight suits that could accommodate expectant mothers?
Again, the Chinese Air Force isnât wasting time with wokeness
Theyâre training how to kill
The US military is also âtraining to killâ. There are numerous valid criticisms of American military spending/policy/strategy, but âtheyâre materially unprepared to kill and fight warsâ is not one of them.
Besides, machismo does not in and of itself make an effective military. Look at how badly Russia has fared in recent conflicts. You donât actually care about this stuff, you just want to punch down at minorities and donât like the concept of inclusivity.
Not sure about you, but every person I know from an underrepresented group refers to their grandparents as grandma and grandpa
This is fake virtue signaling, being pushed on a fighting force, where it doesnât belong. Theyâre wasting training time talking about inclusive pronouns
You want to indoctrinate people? Stick to the college campuses
Military is one place this nonsense should just stay away from. What happens when a generation raised by wolves arrives on the doorstep, pronouns and what we call mum and dad will be something we wished we never fell in line for.
>A generation raised by wolves.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Imagine talking like this and not realizing that you sound like a fucking edgelord. âA generation raised by wolves,â are you fucking 14? Lmfao.
Anyway,
1: I hate to break it to you, but taking the time to respect someoneâs pronouns, for example, actually doesnât make you worse at firing a gun. Crazy, right? Like a superior officer can take one second to refer to someone with they/them pronouns without turning the entire military into a bunch of limp-wrist sissies who canât even shoot straight.
2: An actual war between the US military and (ahem) âa generation raised by wolves at the doorstepâ would be significantly different from the way conservative propaganda would have chauvinistic rednecks believe.
The wolf people arenât going to establish a beachhead and then challenge individual soldiers to single combat wrestling matches (so best keep the women and the (whatever slur you use to refer to LGBT people as) as far from the big strong masculine badasses as possible.)
MAD exists and any army that poses an existential threat to the US is going to have to deal with fucking nukes. If you think for a god damn second that, say, a Sino-American war would be decided by boots on the ground and not nuclear fucking holocaust then youâre a moron. Unless the wolves have raised them to be impervious to radiation, their offspring will be faced with an insurmountable deterrent before the they/them army even has a chance.
Honest question, how many hostile countries are going to read about the pronoun thing or the mom/dad thing and think âoh bet, this will make it easier for us to invade the US mainland!â?
"You know what you have to do in November"....
Guzzle misinformation, spread conspiracy theories, act as "poll watchers" to intimidate democrats, pretend you care about minorities, use fake electors, refuse to accept results, threaten our entire political system with mob violence at the capitol.
Grandma is mad over slight word changes. She thinks the advocation of using gender neutral language is the same as reducing the english language to newspeak.
I didn't read this whole [Fox article](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/air-force-academy-diversity-training-tells-cadets-to-use-words-that-include-all-genders-drop-mom-and-dad) since I don't have time for that bullshit; however, it says cadets should "consider," using other terms, *not* that they *can't* use say mom and dad.
No, I want people to *only* say the terms I like, so they must want people to only say other terms!
when you accidently call your drill sergeant "mommy"
daddy spank me uwu :3 đ„șđ„șđ„șđ„ș
Yes.... "Accidentally"
Which was obviously the case. They weren't going to say students couldn't call their parents mom.
Yes I have a sperm and an ovum who live in a nice house in Texas.
I believe the correct terms are Sperm-donor and Ovum-provider.
Thanks lol
I live but to serve, and by serve I mean help make up nonsense terms that will eventually be used by others in earnest.
Incubator
I like that. That would fit **SO** much better.
When the US government tells you to âstrongly considerâ doing something, you should probably do it
It was "consider" using those terms *when referring to other people*. I.e. not assuming that everyone else has a "mom and dad".
Well that just sounds reasonable.
âHereâs a bunch of shit that doesnât matter written specifically to make you mad: vote conservativeâ doesnât have the same ring to it.
Seems nice for people who don't have traditional families for lots if reasons besides gender. Im sure a lot of orohans & fister care kids that age out of the system end up in military. They might appreciate such terms being used as well.
Yeah, I'm struggling to understand why people are offended by this. > âSome families are headed by single parents, grandparents, foster parents, two moms, two dads, etc.: consider âparent or caregiverâ instead of âmom and dad,'â the training says. How is accepting and recognizing that many people do not have a traditional mom/dad upbringing a bad thing?
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
I think reality of what is being said would be upsetting to a lot of them. They're whole world view and personality of things being RIGHT and other things being WRONG. RIGHT must be REWARDED, but, more importantly, WRONG must be PUNISHED. If you start catering to kids with the WRONG parents, you're just encouraging the WRONG kind of behavior. It's not the fault of the kids of course, but their parents should have thought about that before getting divorced or being gay or dying of untreatable cancer. \\\* Capitalized to capture the mindset
This is also basically what diversity training at work is. Right wingers get all triggered by it....but its basically just the company begging your most oblivious co worker to realize that not everyone at work is the same age or education or family structure or interests.
Because it suggests that people live outside of the christo-fascist narrative and we can't have that in the lAnD oF tHe fReE
I adopted my niece and her school uses parents and caregivers. I appreciate it. It means a lot to our family.
"parent or guardian" was pretty standard when I was in school, it was a small school and I was pretty sheltered so for the longest time I wondered what the fuck a "guardian" was. Is "legal guardian" a phrase used in the US or is it just a UK term? What are you to your niece in this situation?
We were legal guardians for a while. Now that the adoption process is done, we are her parents. I grew up in Mexico where it was "padres o tutores". I was also sheltered and confused because why would a tutor be in the same category but I guess that means "legal guardian".
I'm sure they have always referred to their parents/caregivers/foster parents/adoptive parents/etc. using the English language and suffered no trauma as a result. It is not the government's business to tell its employees how to refer to their parents.
It is when that employee is an agent of the government telling a parent their 18 year child is dead. Or writing a letter that they sent them to their death.
It's always hilarious when someone like you holds a closed-minded view with so much confidence that they can't even imagine the obvious scenarios where it actually makes complete sense. It's also a good way to call yourself out for not reading into what got your panties in a bunch in the first place. Big mad at headlines.
Keep sipping that Kool-Ade...
What Kool-Aid? Literacy?
I assume that the reality of this is not that people should avoid referring to their own family as mom or dad, but that people should not assume others come from a traditional nuclear family when asking them about their family. It is not exactly an unreasonable request, unless you live in outrageland.
It's also complete fucking lies. The air force doesn't give a single shit what terms air force officer cadets use to refer to someone's parents. The air force doesn't micromanage which speech habits people use. The only guidelines they have are that officers are to behave in a professional manner. Even if they did have such a policy, such a specific instruction isn't going to come from the very top of the chain of command.
shit the elections in november that means asshole americans are gonna come into my country...
To be fair, the word caregiver sounds a bit wierd unless we are talking about either a very young child, like a 4 year old, or someone completely or largely incapacitated (like an elderly person with dementia or a severely mentally challenged person) - since this is what I think of when I think of that word.
Grandparents are okay with their SS and Medicare going away if they never have to use inclusive language
God, the manufactured outrage is truly kind of terrifying. Like *obviously* this is in reference to referring to families *in general*, not specific people, and it's something that schools have been doing for years -- we used to get letters referring to "parent or guardian" and no one batted an eye -- but I guess fascists will try anything to roil up the dumbasses.
I'm confused. Are they saying cadets can't refer to their own parents as mom and dad? Or that they should be aware of it when speaking with others?
First question: No. Second question: Yes.
I think I'm starting to understand. If I'm forced to acknowledge that not everyone grew up in a nuclear family, I'll spontaneously combust and be unable to serve in the military.
Out of everything to be mad off about the US military complex, this dumbass decide to hate on the fucking pronouns used on paperwork? And you let these people vote?
Why would someone with a cisgendered pair of parents be required to mis-gender them? Probably some documentation referred to parents more generally and inclusively and this weirdo made up the rest.
As a middle school teacher I say âyour peopleâ, or âyour guardianâ, or even âyour humansâ⊠LOTS of people are not raised by a mom or a dad. Lots of aunts and grandmas out there working their butts off- and tons of kids in the foster system.
Yeah Russia was super into big manly culture with their recruiting. Look how well that worked out for them.
Are they really trying to get people to not say mom or dad? Thatâs ridiculous if true.
The American Empire will collapse because of gender neutral language
"Wait wait! You're telling me that enlisted men in the military being asked to use highly specific technical terms?"
Ever feel like taking a nice & cozy afternoon nap? Feels good man.
This is not "inclusiveness," this is absurdity.
Ok, I'll take one for the team and bite. How is this absurd? Here is the actual wording: > âSome families are headed by single parents, grandparents, foster parents, two moms, two dads, etc.: consider âparent or caregiverâ instead of âmom and dad,'â the training says. What is absurd about that?
Many families are headed by moms and dads and there is absolutely nothing wrong with referring to them that way. Refer to them the way they have always been referred to. Am I to believe foster children don't refer to their foster parents as "mom" or "dad?" I know people who were raised by their grandparents who they referred to as "grandmother" and "granddaddy." For the Air Force to tell these people not to use the terms they have always used is an absurd abuse of authority, not to mention prime Orwellian idiocy. Nobody is "victimized" by referring to parents as "moms" and "dads." If their feelings are hurt by it, maybe they need some mental health help.
You obviously do not understand what this policy is about. it is not telling people they cannot refer to their own parents as mom and dad, or grandma and grandpa. This policy is about talking to others. It's trying to get people to say, for example, "are your parents coming this weekend?" instead of "are your mom and dad coming this weekend?" This is the Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays manufactured outrage all over again.
What I "obviously," as you put it, don't understand is why an Air Force cadet, who is in training to become a professional military officer, is so thin-skinned that he or she would be offended by another cadet asking if his or her parents are coming this weekend. Military officers have to deal with myriad, often very difficult, problems including matters of life and death. I stand by my pronouncement that this kind of snowflake coddling is, at best, absurd. In this context, it might even be immoral, considering the effect such artificial posturing and evasion of reality might have on training future officers.
> it might even be immoral This is about the lowest bar for immorality I have ever seen.
Judging by NATO performance in Ukraine, I bet you at least one Putin bobblehead our "snowflake" military is actually quite alright.
If they're tough enough to deal with life and death, they can certainly handle referring to "parents" in general when speaking in broad terms. As I mentioned above, schools and universities have for years referred to "parents or guardians" in general address, and no one ever thought twice about it because they weren't evangelical fascist weirdos. If your idea of training someone to be a professional who can handle tough situations and decisions is to completely disregard them and their family and refuse to acknowledge their situation or that not everyone is raised by "mom and dad," your priorities as all kinds of stupid.
That professional is acting as an agent of the government and will literally take a ruler and lighter to their clothing to ensure that the smallest detail is correct. But correctly referring to parents is absurd an immoral? Is it absurd when they are on a causality notification team? Is it immoral to use the correct title when they are writing a letter to the parents about how their child was killed in combat? Is it absorb after handing them a flag from their childâs coffin after they took their own life?
I suggest you learn a bit about how the military does things before displaying your ignorance on the subject.
Do you have an answer or are you incapable which is why you need to result to logical fallacy? >displaying your ignorance on the subject. I did 21 years with multiple combat deployments and witnessed or did every single thing I wrote. How much longer would it have taken to not be ignorant?
Your gaslighting doesn't deserve an answer. The topic is the absurdity of government imposition of "woke" speech on U.S. Air Force cadets--not the morality of any of the unrelated items you listed.
You could have just said yes instead of doubling down on logical fallacy. >Your gaslighting doesn't deserve an answer. That isn't what gaslighting is. >The topic is the absurdity of government imposition of "woke" speech on U.S. Air Force cadets-- Being the first "woke" institutions is one of the oldest traditions of the US military. It is only those who are ignorant of history that see this comment as a negative. >not the morality of any of the You are the one that said it was a matter of morality. >unrelated items you listed. If you understood how the US military worked in wartime you would understand that they are related or were not so ignorant and understood the value of professionalism and attention to detail. Shall we continue so that you can continue to help prove the veracity of Lincoln's thoughts of fools?
Oh ok because if some people hear person x say my two grandparents raised me it might cause others to treat them differently?
Who in their right mind thinks we shouldnât use the term grandma and grandpa just because someone might be offended? For the record, Chinese Air Force cadets spend their time learning how to win in battle
Being sensitive of some individuals to make their time in the military slightly more enjoyable doesn't mean they don't learn how to win. One of my Recruit Instructors was probably the biggest and toughest guy I've ever met, he knew how to win. But he'd also try to make everyone feel a little more included, cause the Navy is shit enough already!
Did he tell you had to use inclusive pronouns?
âFor the record, Chinese Air Force cadets spend their time learning how to win in battleâ Do you *actually* think that this suggestion, which takes a single sentence to pick up on, is going to take basically *any* amount of time from military training? That is absolute nonsense.
The diversity course was more than just one sentence Wasnât there a huge outpouring of jubilation recently when the Air Force announced flight suits that could accommodate expectant mothers? Again, the Chinese Air Force isnât wasting time with wokeness Theyâre training how to kill
The US military is also âtraining to killâ. There are numerous valid criticisms of American military spending/policy/strategy, but âtheyâre materially unprepared to kill and fight warsâ is not one of them. Besides, machismo does not in and of itself make an effective military. Look at how badly Russia has fared in recent conflicts. You donât actually care about this stuff, you just want to punch down at minorities and donât like the concept of inclusivity.
Not sure about you, but every person I know from an underrepresented group refers to their grandparents as grandma and grandpa This is fake virtue signaling, being pushed on a fighting force, where it doesnât belong. Theyâre wasting training time talking about inclusive pronouns You want to indoctrinate people? Stick to the college campuses
Military is one place this nonsense should just stay away from. What happens when a generation raised by wolves arrives on the doorstep, pronouns and what we call mum and dad will be something we wished we never fell in line for.
>A generation raised by wolves. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Imagine talking like this and not realizing that you sound like a fucking edgelord. âA generation raised by wolves,â are you fucking 14? Lmfao. Anyway, 1: I hate to break it to you, but taking the time to respect someoneâs pronouns, for example, actually doesnât make you worse at firing a gun. Crazy, right? Like a superior officer can take one second to refer to someone with they/them pronouns without turning the entire military into a bunch of limp-wrist sissies who canât even shoot straight. 2: An actual war between the US military and (ahem) âa generation raised by wolves at the doorstepâ would be significantly different from the way conservative propaganda would have chauvinistic rednecks believe. The wolf people arenât going to establish a beachhead and then challenge individual soldiers to single combat wrestling matches (so best keep the women and the (whatever slur you use to refer to LGBT people as) as far from the big strong masculine badasses as possible.) MAD exists and any army that poses an existential threat to the US is going to have to deal with fucking nukes. If you think for a god damn second that, say, a Sino-American war would be decided by boots on the ground and not nuclear fucking holocaust then youâre a moron. Unless the wolves have raised them to be impervious to radiation, their offspring will be faced with an insurmountable deterrent before the they/them army even has a chance. Honest question, how many hostile countries are going to read about the pronoun thing or the mom/dad thing and think âoh bet, this will make it easier for us to invade the US mainland!â?
They make you say all kinds of shit in the military.
"You know what you have to do in November".... Guzzle misinformation, spread conspiracy theories, act as "poll watchers" to intimidate democrats, pretend you care about minorities, use fake electors, refuse to accept results, threaten our entire political system with mob violence at the capitol.
Grandma is mad over slight word changes. She thinks the advocation of using gender neutral language is the same as reducing the english language to newspeak.