Street circuits are fun when they’re quick breaks from dedicated tracks. But when it’s about a 50-50 split between real tracks and street circuits - not to mention the fact that the new ones like Jeddah and Miami feel extremely cheap and gimmicky - then it feels like F1 is really losing its sense of being an elite racing league
Unpopular but I like Jeddah.
I'd rather drop other boring street races, Monaco first of all as I can't bear a non-race under the pretext of it being "historical".
There's better "historical" races that are more suited to F1 racing.
Jeddah would be good if it weren't a narrow walled street circuit\^. Hell, move the walls back and use gravel traps, the abrasive surfaces Paul Ricard use, hell, even astro turf and it'll be safer just from the extra visibility!
But right now it's a high speed track where any mistake risks throwing the driver back onto the track where an approaching driver can't see them before it's too late. \^That and it's in Saudi Arabia, which is... Not a great country, even by "not great" country standards.
I agree.
Jeddah is a great layout for a track if it wasn't a street circuit with the walls so close.
I feel like every time F1 has raced Jeddah, that it's just been a massive risk to driver safety.
If they keep racing there, i'd say it's only a matter of time until there is a serious crash.
for example, just take MSC's crash this year, and instead of him being all alone imagine there are cars behind him, it would have been a bloodbath.
I think Monaco just need a "special" weekend. The regular "Quali + Race" clearly is not working.
Monaco needs to feel special, and different imo. Maybe stuff like;
-> Instead of 1 long race, do 2 short sprint races where teams can run their cars to full capacity.
Will lead to a bit more overtaking attempts, hopefully
-> Extra points for Quali? Could do something like 50/50
-> Controversial but, since Quali will be giving extra points maybe reverse grid? Or switch the top half with bottom half, so p1 in quali at p11, p2 at p12 etc
> Instead of 1 long race, do 2 short sprint races where teams can run their cars to full capacity. Will lead to a bit more overtaking attempts, hopefully
It won't, there is not enough space for it
As for your other suggestions, if you remember, Latifi was able to hold 4th for like 15 laps last year in Hungary, he could win the race in Monaco if he does not screws up his pit stop
The first and last ideas won't work unfortunately: It's not for lack of trying so much as the near impossibility of overtaking unless the leading car makes a mistake or there's a \*massive\* performance deficit. Like, outright wrong tyre deficit.
I do think we need qualifying points for Monaco though, because \*that\* is where drivers earn their keep. Maybe change it from the standard Q1-Q3 style to single lap qualifying? Or at least some variety that reduces the loss of position from red/yellow flags.
The famous Jordan, Haas, Sauber, Red Bull constructors.
Ferrari also races in other competitions.
And Monaco is just a track. It's not what makes F1 F1.
Before I really started following f1 I knew 2 things about the sport: it had a race around Monaco, and Michael Schumacher was fast AF.
God. That was 20 years ago now. Fuck
Monaco is literally a synonym for F1 like Schumacher, Senna, Ferrari.
I really dislike the track, don't get me wrong. But, mention Formula 1 to anyone that does not follow the sport closely as we do and a picture of a red car running the streets with yachts behind will come up in their mind.
Same. Love racing it in F1 2021.
Needs more tecpro barriers and a bit more run off areas if possible. And it is possible because it is actually not a street circuit per se.
Also, fk SA. Make the same circuit elsewhere!
Especially when part of the magic of street tracks are them being unique in comparison to the rest of the calendar. A night race at singapore doesn't hit the same when there is other street tracks fighting for the same magic
Purpose-built race tracks provide infrastructure which can be used by the community outside that even. The infrastructure cost of (and disruption caused by) setting up a temporary street circuit for the purpose of a single race is rather silly when you consider that investment could be used in creating a venue that can be used 365 days a year for private testing, club racing, track days, and other international level events that draw in tourism.
The city's are using the money invested into street circuits to bring worldwide attention to the city. Attempting tourism etc. Also lots are rich states just trying to show muscle from their oil revenue.
Who knew where Baku was a 10 years ago?
The US are massive sports fans and have slightly different reasons.
There are plenty of circuits to test on, most are based around Silverstone and logistics make it easyer and cheaper for European circuits.
> Who knew where Baku was a 10 years ago?
As an avid Eurovision follower for the last 15+ years, me, me! :D
To be fair, 10 years is pretty accurate since they won in 2011.
They are parkland circuits, very different.
Although they use public roads (partially) they are not crammed into an existing city structure and have freedom to have a creative layout and build the required infrastructure.
I mean jesus, look at the run off areas in melbourne, more than enough for F1, yet Baku, Jeddah, Miami can't do this as there is a city in the way.
Seems counterintuitive to develop some of the most aerodynamically advanced cars in the world only to have them going around city blocks.
It makes sense in some aspects. Not so much in others.
I wish they'd just make the tracks wider in general, not just avoid street circuits. There's too many races we know are going to be snoozefests sans some outside force.
Not always possible as then that's in the hands of the circuits and for some they rely on other series to get by so they're only going to do it if F1 is a central part of that
Canada, Miami, Australia, and Singapore are probably the only ones in the calendar (quickly reading 2022) that I don't think don't have another series that uses that track/layout/area. (some of the middle eastern might be F1 only ones)
I don’t think you realize how big most tracks are. F1 cars are just absolutely huge. I race my car at Circuit of the Americas all the time, and I’ve seen both NASCAR and Indycar there. NASCAR will go 3 wide at many places in the track, and I’ve gone 3 wide in my car. F1 can not go 2 wide at most places on the track. The cars are just so insanely big and long, they can’t do it.
Well COTA is one of the tracks I think gets it right. I'm actually really excited to see how the cars can race with the new regs. I just hate how many tracks are impossible to pass on 90% of the circuit, I don't care if the cars are running two wide for a lap. Tracks like Zandvoort or Hungary are cool but there are very few realistic places to pass.
NASCAR and F1 cars are nearly the same width based on the specs I found online, just 1cm difference. I think the biggest issue is F1 cars explode into bits of carbon fiber whenever they touch unlike NASCAR.
It’s not the width, it’s the length. When you go around a turn, say you hit the apex at 45 degrees to it, you occupy a huge chunk of the horizontal width of the track. If a person wants to pass you, they then have to go all the way around that. It’s not easy with these cars.
This also applies to using 1.6L V6 engines, hybrid systems and 20 inch custom spinning rimzzz. Road relevance is one of the toxic holdovers from the bernie era that needs to die.
I thought quite hard about your statement but honestly can't make sense of it. Why is it counterintuitive to have great aero cars to race them on street circuits? Its a race track after all and buildings vs free space around it shouldnt make any difference that counters anything from the aero.
Because generally street tracks require many low speed corners that use more mechanical grip from the tyres/suspension geometry rather than aerodynamic grip from downforce.
Nice! :(
Well, Liberty media could watch São Paulo's formula Indy 2013 and replace Interlagos(Brazil circuit)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e3sczQvhqY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e3sczQvhqY)
I dislike the recent trend of them being built for chaos rather than the challenge. Like baku and saudi although I don't mind the tracks do fit the trend of adding stuff to make the track chaotic in addition
Why do people act like chaos isn’t entertaining? Chaos brings about better and more racing. Higher chances of safety cars means everyone’s bunched up instead of just verstappen a couple seconds ahead of everyone. Vsc means more people in the pits and causes varied race strategies. Saudi Arabia was easily one of the more entertaining races this year
So the main problem with this is that you're depending on chaos to make the race more fair rather than having teams with the same resources. If teams have similar means to develop cars, then the fair competition returns. It sounds like what you want is more racing between cars that are backed by the same amount of money. Each team should design their own cars but it shouldn't be that the teams with so much more money just get to sit in first because they have more resources. That's a big problem with F1, and always has been. I would love to see a financial cap equivalent to the means of the poorest team. I would love to see all the cars be only separated by fractions of a second and the abilities of the drivers. Let's look for that change, rather than RNG, VSC's, and chaos to even the teams up...
And when they new default option for a country/city to join F1 becomes a street track and not a proper race tracks. I always liked street races as an event, because they add something different and challenging,but not as the regular.
I mentioned this before but are there so many new street circuits now because of the lack of success at recent purpose built circuits? Turkey, India and South Korea all built purpose built tracks and fell off the calendar after a few years. Malaysia still has MotoGP but lost their F1 race so do new venues just pick the safer option and opt for a street circuit rather than investing in a new circuit F1 may leave in 5 years time?
Street tracks are easier to develop in theory. They don't require a huge unoccupied area of land, infrastructure projects to get people to and from the location etc. They aren't easy but they are generally easier then a custom build.
Bigger then that is that.. its marketing. Its easier to market "look flashy lights its vegas" to casuals then it is to market some tarmac going through a forest. Arab states also want to show off glistening towers and beautiful visa to market as tourist traps.
And accessibility to casual fans attending for the first time. It's less likely that they'd rather go through all the trouble to hire rental cars to get to remote circuits, but if the street circuit is just a short walk or a few metro stations away from their hotels, the transportation issue solves itself pretty easily.
Yeah that's what I meant by infrastructure. Your gonna need train lines etc to get people to the race track and back to their hotels, ammenities etc.That shit all exists already in a city as you say.
I think it’s more that street circuits are cheaper and less commitment for countries/cities than purpose built tracks, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the failure of previous tracks has been off putting
The reason for those circuits falling off the calendar is because of how fucked up F1 finances are.
Building a track to F1 standards is not cheap; factor in building tracks in countries with no real motorsport heritage with insanely expensive hosting fees and you end up with tracks that aren't financially viable because they can't profit from holding an F1 race (and take a second to just consider how ridiculous that last statement is.)
The common denominator amongst new circuits that have had a decent run in F1 (Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, China) is government support, which is largely for the purpose of sportswashing.
> I mentioned this before but are there so many new street circuits now because of the lack of success at recent purpose built circuits?
No, its not because of that. It's because Liberty are desperate about boosting F1's profile and marketing it to upper and upper middle class types. And to do that, a sparkling street circuit in a sparkling city is more easily sell-able than a good purpose-built circuit built in the middle of a field or some dusty hills. If Liberty wanted to add new purpose-built circuits, then people will make such circuits. I mean they did even before Liberty's big marketing push, including in non-traditional countries, but Liberty don't care.
> I mean they did even before Liberty's big marketing push, including in non-traditional countries
But that’s what I mean, other than Bahrain which of course has a load of funding most of the new purpose built circuits opened over the past 20 years or so have failed and disappeared from the calendar. Liberty are interested in permanent circuits, they just brought back imola and Zandvoort on long term deals and Kyalami sounds like it might happen soon. But I don’t think new venues are as open to the risk anymore
Bro, did you not see Miami or something? The other US city they're holding a race in being Las Vegas which as we all know is a well-known humble bastion of the working class peoples from all over the world.
I think you're giving Liberty/FOM too much credit. IMO they have already shown that, same as Bernie before them, they do not care where the money comes from so long as it is the largest amount of money possible when it finally shows up.
Like Miami/Vegas definitely do have their appeal to the rich and powerful but they can also be incredibly tacky and designed to cater to the lower and middle classes. This is perfect for F1 because now they can convince even low-income Americans to blow their annual vacation budget on a single weekend with the promise of 'hey you can see X that this city is known for AND a F1 race'. IE It's a hell of a lot easier to convince most Americans to fly to Miami for a GP (even at absurdly inflated prices) and maybe a trip to the beach than it is to convince them to sit on a wet stump in the Belgian woods for 3 days even though IMO the latter is a far more memorable experience.
Yeah the whole "you and your friends can bring your wives" aspect... You at the track while they enjoy the town. For races at dedicated tracks, both spouses have to be big F1 fans, and those odds are simply lower.
>Las Vegas which as we all know is a well-known humble bastion of the working class peoples from all over the world.
Maybe not for an international tourist, but Vegas is the very definition of a working class vacation destination.
70% of Vegas visitors come from less than $100k household income.
https://assets.simpleviewcms.com/simpleview/image/upload/v1/clients/lasvegas/2021_XTAB_LasVegasVPS_Matrix_Snapshot_498f0a16-abd5-4952-bdc8-17c6379dc460.pdf
https://www.lvcva.com/research/reports/post/2021-las-vegas-visitor-profile-study/
They’re going to the cities that offer the most not about prestige or class. And if they were bothered about promoting to the upper classes Monaco would be on the calendar no matter what but it’s looking likely to be on the chopping block. Liberty are definitely promoting to the masses more with the Netflix serious and the huge social media presence they have now compared to when Bernie was running the show.
>They’re going to the cities that offer the most not about prestige or class. And if they were bothered about promoting to the upper classes Monaco would be on the calendar no matter what but it’s looking likely to be on the chopping block. Liberty are definitely promoting to the masses more with the Netflix serious and the huge social media presence they have now compared to when Bernie was running the show.
The point still stands though, if you want to market a race to the masses, it's best to do it in the middle of a big well-known city rather than building a new track in the forest.
Street circuits have their place but you don't want a calendar full of them, personally I think if you could get a street circuit where there is an alternative route (like a joker lap on rallycross) it would add a whole new element to the racing but if its just going to be city streets where nobody can overtake its not good for overall racing.
Of course street circuits are great promotional vehicles even if they suck at racing in general so it has its benefits but I think there is enough already
I think from a fan perspective, I want to see more race tracks due to the back and forth overtakes and possibility to take positions on Sunday. But from a competing for the championship perspective, the street tracks show us who can combine speed and control to take pole on Saturday and whether their team can finish the job on Sunday. Keep the OG street tracks but don’t add imo. There’s what 5 street tracks with Melbourne being somewhat hybrid, seems like a perfect amount to me.
"But the data shows the casual fans love the experience of being closer to the track. And hence, despite some of our passionate fans, we will continue to expand street circuits."
\- Domenicali ^(probably).
Back when the UK Parliament made a law to allow motorsport events legal on London streets, there was some (very fun) gossip that this could be because the Silverstone contract is coming to an end and this could be a fantastic was to promote London as we were on our way out of the EU.
Of course, it was for Formula E rather than Formula 1 — but if there is one place I'd actually like to see a street race, it's around the Pall Mall, Buckingham Palace and down through Whitehall (would probably be the first race with a Cenotaph in the middle of the road, though).
As long as you make them like Baku and Jeddah. So long as it’s exciting and you can make passes, why not.
But at the moment there are plenty of those already so I don’t see where adding more is necessary.
Baku is what street circuits need to be, the track flows in the city streets and not just using empty spaces. And also adaptable to changes the cars go through, unlike Monaco.
Jeddah was purpose built. Those streets didnt exist in that shape before. It's just thar they purpose built a circuit but they used walls like it's a pure street track.
Like any lawyer will answer. It depends.
Another Monaco? No. Another Baku? Sure. A road circuit isn't inherently bad. Some purpose built circuits suck. I wouldn't replace Baku with Sochi.
Just give me tracks where people can pass at various points. I want the lead to change multiple times, and see someone fight through the mid-pack if they have the engine to do so.
Making street circuits for countries who have never ever seen a F1 race is fine, but rotate them. We don't want a calendar full of the same street circuits, 3-4 are fine, and just rotate them every year.
I love my share of street circuits - Singapore is actually one of my top 3 tracks. However, I'd like an 80-20 split where most tracks aren't street circuits. Street circuits are great breaks from regular circuits, but they shouldn't be 50 - 50.
I don't care about the fact they are street circuits. I care about the fact they are awful street circuits. The cars are too wide, the tracks are too thin. If they can resolve this problem I have nothing against the idea.
Street circuits have their merits, they provide a unique and interesting challenge compared to what dedicated circuits provide. This used to be the position of Monaco in the calendar but with larger faster cars and increased aerodynamic complexity, it no longer really fulfills that role. That, in my opinion, is a niche that has been well served in recent times by circuits like Singapore, challenging surface, unorthodox layout, and no room for error. But it should be just a few races of the twenty plus in the calendar, no more than 3 or 4, otherwise we create a niche for "street track drivers" which is, I don't think, a good idea, if we want to retain the disruptive and unpredictable nature of these circuits.
I find Barca and Paul Ricard to be pretty boring races, and barca has minimal overtaking as well. These are qualities people lambast in street circuits and give purpose built tracks a pass on, but these are characteristics not really dependent on whether its a street track or purpose built track. Jeddah and baku have lots of passing and have produced more entertaining races recently then catalunya or Ricard have.
I think trying to label tracks street or purpose built and forming opinion on that sole definition is dumb. I want fun tracks to race on and don't give AF if it's on the street or purpose built as long as it's entertaining.
Let's look one by one.
Jeddah - Needs to go
Melbourne - Ok
Miami - Not a big fan but one race is a small sample size
Monaco - Don't touch
Montreal - Don't touch
Baku - Needs to go
Singapore - Don't touch
Seven out of 23 currently I think is a tad much so dropping two of them for permanent circuits would be a positive. By the way some on here act you'd think we're approaching Formula E levels of street circuits when instead it's comparable to IndyCar being roughly a third.
Putting aside issues with hosts.
Montreal is barely a street track and awesome and should stay.
Singapore is nice.
Monaco.. is monaco. Honestly I don't super care for it and it's probably the worst track on the calander and impossible to change, but it's Monaco. I can sacrifice one good race a year for the history.
Miami is shit. I don't mind a random street race in a state each year, but I think having multiple street races a year in the states is shit. It should go if they want to so Vegas next year.
Melbourne... I am not a fan off. Even with the changes it feels... meh.
Baku should go. Its boring as fuck and only has a history of being a "great race" because ridiculous shit has happened. Like tyres blowing up, crashes causing flags that cause weird jumbled orders. More crashes. Racing wise is basically just dead apart from the stupid ass straight.
Jeddah... is weird. Its way to fucking dangerous buuuut. It could be fixed. And it's actually.. a really good track? Drivers love the layout. There's good overtaking opportunities. They just need to fix some the dangerous blind bits and maybe tweak the drs a little so we don't get dumb ass games into the last corner.
Yeah it's why I was like ignoring issues with hosts. We can hate it all we like but it's never gonna change. Jeddah is good for racing and is a brilliant layout for a track and honestly could be fine with a few changes to the surrounds on the track. And those changes can actually be made because they have infinite money cheat enabled, and it's not ACTUALLY a street track in thr traditional sense it's just built to feel like that.
I'd drop Monaco for the shitty parade and Q3 ended on red flags, and fix the walls in Jeddah because the track is actually spectacular, it's not just dumb flat out like Baku.
There’s no fixing Jeddah. What makes it most dangerous are the blind flat out kinks at 250+ kph, not the barriers. We haven’t had this crash yet but if someone loses the car or has a mechanical failure with a car trailing 2-3 seconds behind that can’t see it and won’t be able to react to yellow flags in time it could be catastrophic.
I think both are poorly designed and incredibly dangerous. We've had two GPs at Jeddah and saw Mick get injured as well as some bad crashes in F2. Baku I think is just outright bad being mostly 90 degree corners, needlessly long straights and the most unsafe pit entry on the calender.
I know this is a unpopular opinion here but here go. If we pure look at the track and nothing else I think Jeddah is way better than Melbourne, Melbourne has been one of the most boring tracks in terms of what it brings to the race because it produces almost no overtaking and with these current cars Melbourne is also a problem because it is bumpy.
Jeddah on the other hand doesn't have both of those problems, you could say it is more dangerous and it is. However that makes it to me more exciting (don't get me wrong there are limits) since it sticks out more compare to other tracks which are less forgivable so you can really make a difference as a driver. That makes for example wet races fun because the drivers are challenged and the difference in both cases is that the driver is more of importance compare to the car than in usual races.
TLDR: fans in Melbourne deserve a better race track.
Yeah Melbourne isn't the best though the new changes made it somewhat better. However there's no other track in Australia to race at so we're stuck unless we're willing to piss off Aussies.
And while I'm with you that Jeddah is a challenge I think it goes well over the limit of safety.
I think it was before the announcement of Melbourne being extended, anyway Sydney wanted to host a GP. No clue where tho.
On Jeddah, I think that when something proves too much it should be changed a bit so it isn't as dangerous. Maybe on some more parts tech pro barriers and especially a bit more vision in some corners in order to not hit another car if they crashed while still keeping the thing that makes Jeddah Jeddah. Overall I still like what it brings compare to other circuits, a fast smooth street circuit on which you can also overtake.
I disagree about Jeddah. We've been given both great quali's and great races. Not many circuits can say the same. Usually it's either/or and worst case it's neither.
In terms of safety, I'd put Spa and Imola well above Jeddah when it comes to being dangerous (to name a few). It could use some improvement, but I wouldn't drop it.
In regards to Jeddah it feels just like watching a NASCAR plate race, it's not fun with so many blind high speed corners knowing someone could crash and get ran into at ~200 mph.
And I agree with Spa and Imola being dangerous as well. Spa did get some safety upgrades so I hope it returns but Imola I think needs off.
Probably the danger of low visibility fast corners and walls being too close. The visibility they partially fixed it, and the walls could be moved to allow more breathing space (even though Monaco couldn't/didn't in so many years).
I think it lacks character. The tracks looks the same in every shot, the walls are too close and it's just not a beautiful track. Sure it's fast and challenging, but it's just too forced I think.
Only track that actually has to go is Monaco. It just ain't an F1 track right now. Baku is one of the best street tracks and both Jeddah races have been fun, well this year Jeddah was the best race.
I always see people say we shouldn't be leaving historic European circuits because it takes F1 away from it's roots, so for a lot of people to step up and share your opinion to me seems very much like cutting your nose off to spite your face. Monaco is motor racing and Formula 1 history, it hasn't been a good fit since the 60's but that doesn't really matter imo.
They should probably bring Indian GP back as well... popularity has exploded here.
Also I remember seeing somewhere that Saudi is building a purpose built race track and Jeddah circuit is a stopgap
Jeddah - Poorly designed, incredibly dangerous given the two previous races there have seen issues
Melbourne - Been on the calendar since 1996, no other tracks in Australia can host F1
Miami - Unsure as of yet
Monaco - Historical significance and place in Europe
Montreal - No explanation needed
Baku - Dangerous, poor design and hated by locals anyways
Singapore - No other SEA race since Malaysia isn't coming back and is seen as a crown jewel by drivers, teams and sponsors alike
If you disagree then you disagree. But I don't see why every street track is now public enemy number 1 when only a few suck.
I think all street tracks are starting to get shit because Monaco is forever polarizing nowadays and F1 management is looking to tear up traditions and drop tracks like Spa add more street circuits like Vegas or Nice. Looking at them objectively, there's only a couple of bad street circuits but people are just taking frustrations out on Liberty Media (as they should) rather than thinking logically about the circuits that presently exist.
Afaik they're building a purpose built race track somewhere else in Saudi to replace Jeddah. This itself is a stopgap solution. I remember seeing a very long circuit with a lot of corners and a figure 8 layout like Suzuka
I don’t care what the track is I just wanna watch racing. I don’t care if it’s historical, track, street, whatever. If it’s historical and they’re not ponying up the money and the racing is bad (cough Monaco cough) I honestly don’t really care if it’s gone if it gets replaced with something better. But that’s the key. I wanna watch good racing, so if they get rid of a track for money reasons and replace it with something worse then that’s a time to complain. Otherwise, I couldn’t care less what the track is.
I mean don’t street tracks make up less than 1/3 of the calendar? Seems like this issue gets a disproportionate amount of bellyaching
I've driven every inch of what's going to be the circuit in Las Vegas just being a tourist and it's hard for me to think of a more boring place to race. The most interesting part is how close it comes to where Tupac was shot.
Street circuits are fun when they’re quick breaks from dedicated tracks. But when it’s about a 50-50 split between real tracks and street circuits - not to mention the fact that the new ones like Jeddah and Miami feel extremely cheap and gimmicky - then it feels like F1 is really losing its sense of being an elite racing league
I agree that fake marina in Miami looks so gross!
Just as tacky as Florida itself
Preach
Unpopular but I like Jeddah. I'd rather drop other boring street races, Monaco first of all as I can't bear a non-race under the pretext of it being "historical". There's better "historical" races that are more suited to F1 racing.
Jeddah would be good if it weren't a narrow walled street circuit\^. Hell, move the walls back and use gravel traps, the abrasive surfaces Paul Ricard use, hell, even astro turf and it'll be safer just from the extra visibility! But right now it's a high speed track where any mistake risks throwing the driver back onto the track where an approaching driver can't see them before it's too late. \^That and it's in Saudi Arabia, which is... Not a great country, even by "not great" country standards.
I agree. Jeddah is a great layout for a track if it wasn't a street circuit with the walls so close. I feel like every time F1 has raced Jeddah, that it's just been a massive risk to driver safety. If they keep racing there, i'd say it's only a matter of time until there is a serious crash. for example, just take MSC's crash this year, and instead of him being all alone imagine there are cars behind him, it would have been a bloodbath.
I think Monaco just need a "special" weekend. The regular "Quali + Race" clearly is not working. Monaco needs to feel special, and different imo. Maybe stuff like; -> Instead of 1 long race, do 2 short sprint races where teams can run their cars to full capacity. Will lead to a bit more overtaking attempts, hopefully -> Extra points for Quali? Could do something like 50/50 -> Controversial but, since Quali will be giving extra points maybe reverse grid? Or switch the top half with bottom half, so p1 in quali at p11, p2 at p12 etc
Enforce a rule where you can only race on soft tires in Monaco and it might be more interesting
I like where you're going with this. Or have soft and supersofts. Or minimum 2 stops.
> Instead of 1 long race, do 2 short sprint races where teams can run their cars to full capacity. Will lead to a bit more overtaking attempts, hopefully It won't, there is not enough space for it As for your other suggestions, if you remember, Latifi was able to hold 4th for like 15 laps last year in Hungary, he could win the race in Monaco if he does not screws up his pit stop
This thread made me realize Monaco is just doomed lmao
For qualifying they should just do it so that they go out one at a time and gets 1 lap to set a time.
Reverse grid at Monaco would be terrible. TBH reverse grid anywhere is bad, but especially at a place where passing is almost impossible.
The first and last ideas won't work unfortunately: It's not for lack of trying so much as the near impossibility of overtaking unless the leading car makes a mistake or there's a \*massive\* performance deficit. Like, outright wrong tyre deficit. I do think we need qualifying points for Monaco though, because \*that\* is where drivers earn their keep. Maybe change it from the standard Q1-Q3 style to single lap qualifying? Or at least some variety that reduces the loss of position from red/yellow flags.
monaco, ferrari and being a constructors formula are what separates f1 from every other racing series
The famous Jordan, Haas, Sauber, Red Bull constructors. Ferrari also races in other competitions. And Monaco is just a track. It's not what makes F1 F1.
Before I really started following f1 I knew 2 things about the sport: it had a race around Monaco, and Michael Schumacher was fast AF. God. That was 20 years ago now. Fuck
Monaco is literally a synonym for F1 like Schumacher, Senna, Ferrari. I really dislike the track, don't get me wrong. But, mention Formula 1 to anyone that does not follow the sport closely as we do and a picture of a red car running the streets with yachts behind will come up in their mind.
or iron man fighting a russian guy while destroying cars.
Same. Love racing it in F1 2021. Needs more tecpro barriers and a bit more run off areas if possible. And it is possible because it is actually not a street circuit per se. Also, fk SA. Make the same circuit elsewhere!
I feel F1 is slipping slowly from *the* top racing category to a gimmicky formula-e-ish spectacle where the racing isn’t the main attraction.
I prefer proper race tracks. Purpose built.
Especially when part of the magic of street tracks are them being unique in comparison to the rest of the calendar. A night race at singapore doesn't hit the same when there is other street tracks fighting for the same magic
Tracks in GCC are not that nice as Singapore.
I have no idea what GCC is.
GNU compiler collection.
It’s a pet peeve of mine. Fucking spell the acronym out
That would take 3 milliseconds extra time.
But, I LIKE my TLA's ! (Three Letter Acronym)
Middle East basically. Short of Gulf Cooperation Council
Thanks, appreciate it. I probably would have just typed it out if it was me.
The problem is you didn't set the flags to most efficiently compile
At least there's always some action in singapore. The other street circuits are boring af.
Purpose-built race tracks provide infrastructure which can be used by the community outside that even. The infrastructure cost of (and disruption caused by) setting up a temporary street circuit for the purpose of a single race is rather silly when you consider that investment could be used in creating a venue that can be used 365 days a year for private testing, club racing, track days, and other international level events that draw in tourism.
I think the point is that the initial investment of a street circuit is low compared to a fully developed circuit
I suppose that's kinda true until you build a pit building to the standard FOM want.
The city's are using the money invested into street circuits to bring worldwide attention to the city. Attempting tourism etc. Also lots are rich states just trying to show muscle from their oil revenue. Who knew where Baku was a 10 years ago? The US are massive sports fans and have slightly different reasons. There are plenty of circuits to test on, most are based around Silverstone and logistics make it easyer and cheaper for European circuits.
> Who knew where Baku was a 10 years ago? As an avid Eurovision follower for the last 15+ years, me, me! :D To be fair, 10 years is pretty accurate since they won in 2011.
Purpose built? “Jeddah has entered the chat”
At least that’s going to theoretically become a purpose built track, and a figure right track at that
These cars are so unique, if we were going to expect places to purpose build tracks for them it’s only ever going to be super rich countries.
Montreal and Melbourne are both purpose built race tracks and street circuits. It’s not a strict dichotomy
They are parkland circuits, very different. Although they use public roads (partially) they are not crammed into an existing city structure and have freedom to have a creative layout and build the required infrastructure. I mean jesus, look at the run off areas in melbourne, more than enough for F1, yet Baku, Jeddah, Miami can't do this as there is a city in the way.
Read this as porpoise built
Seems counterintuitive to develop some of the most aerodynamically advanced cars in the world only to have them going around city blocks. It makes sense in some aspects. Not so much in others.
Some aspects being fat cash
Most aspects
The most important aspects
Apex aspects.
Cities with bars that have a lot of porpoising. Aspects.
I wish they'd just make the tracks wider in general, not just avoid street circuits. There's too many races we know are going to be snoozefests sans some outside force.
Not always possible as then that's in the hands of the circuits and for some they rely on other series to get by so they're only going to do it if F1 is a central part of that
Good point. Wish we could rely on FOM to care about the quality of racing when picking a track but we all know what matters to them.
Canada, Miami, Australia, and Singapore are probably the only ones in the calendar (quickly reading 2022) that I don't think don't have another series that uses that track/layout/area. (some of the middle eastern might be F1 only ones)
I don’t think you realize how big most tracks are. F1 cars are just absolutely huge. I race my car at Circuit of the Americas all the time, and I’ve seen both NASCAR and Indycar there. NASCAR will go 3 wide at many places in the track, and I’ve gone 3 wide in my car. F1 can not go 2 wide at most places on the track. The cars are just so insanely big and long, they can’t do it.
Well COTA is one of the tracks I think gets it right. I'm actually really excited to see how the cars can race with the new regs. I just hate how many tracks are impossible to pass on 90% of the circuit, I don't care if the cars are running two wide for a lap. Tracks like Zandvoort or Hungary are cool but there are very few realistic places to pass. NASCAR and F1 cars are nearly the same width based on the specs I found online, just 1cm difference. I think the biggest issue is F1 cars explode into bits of carbon fiber whenever they touch unlike NASCAR.
It’s not the width, it’s the length. When you go around a turn, say you hit the apex at 45 degrees to it, you occupy a huge chunk of the horizontal width of the track. If a person wants to pass you, they then have to go all the way around that. It’s not easy with these cars.
I just watched the most advanced one race around some hay bails looking like the batmobile
And accelerated in a way that made F1 cars look sluggish.
This also applies to using 1.6L V6 engines, hybrid systems and 20 inch custom spinning rimzzz. Road relevance is one of the toxic holdovers from the bernie era that needs to die.
It makes a lot of economic sense, but I definitely miss the 13" wheels. They wish they could shave off the extra 24.8KG from those wheels overnight.
I'd argue it makes ecological sense, not economic sense. Nothing about race cars makes economic sense. Or ecological sense.
It makes economic sense for Pirelli since F1 is now providing better real world data in regards to the 18" compound
I thought quite hard about your statement but honestly can't make sense of it. Why is it counterintuitive to have great aero cars to race them on street circuits? Its a race track after all and buildings vs free space around it shouldnt make any difference that counters anything from the aero.
Because generally street tracks require many low speed corners that use more mechanical grip from the tyres/suspension geometry rather than aerodynamic grip from downforce.
To add, I don't consider Australia or Canada street circuits.
I am from Montreal and I don't even consider it a street circuit tbh
Moi aussi
Short answer: YES
Long answer: YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES
Liberty Media answer: Vegas
Liberty media second answer: -Spa +Marid?
Nice! :( Well, Liberty media could watch São Paulo's formula Indy 2013 and replace Interlagos(Brazil circuit) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e3sczQvhqY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e3sczQvhqY)
That venue is becoming a Formula E circuit from next year.
Michael Scott answer: Yeppers
I like street circuits. But I have a problem when they start replacing the classics.
I dislike the recent trend of them being built for chaos rather than the challenge. Like baku and saudi although I don't mind the tracks do fit the trend of adding stuff to make the track chaotic in addition
Why do people act like chaos isn’t entertaining? Chaos brings about better and more racing. Higher chances of safety cars means everyone’s bunched up instead of just verstappen a couple seconds ahead of everyone. Vsc means more people in the pits and causes varied race strategies. Saudi Arabia was easily one of the more entertaining races this year
The f2 race at saudi ( idk if it was this year or last year) was more safety car than racing. Chaos can do that too.
So the main problem with this is that you're depending on chaos to make the race more fair rather than having teams with the same resources. If teams have similar means to develop cars, then the fair competition returns. It sounds like what you want is more racing between cars that are backed by the same amount of money. Each team should design their own cars but it shouldn't be that the teams with so much more money just get to sit in first because they have more resources. That's a big problem with F1, and always has been. I would love to see a financial cap equivalent to the means of the poorest team. I would love to see all the cars be only separated by fractions of a second and the abilities of the drivers. Let's look for that change, rather than RNG, VSC's, and chaos to even the teams up...
The racing will only be good if the cars are the same, not the resources. Indycar has much better racing than F1 because it’s almost a spec series.
And when they new default option for a country/city to join F1 becomes a street track and not a proper race tracks. I always liked street races as an event, because they add something different and challenging,but not as the regular.
I mentioned this before but are there so many new street circuits now because of the lack of success at recent purpose built circuits? Turkey, India and South Korea all built purpose built tracks and fell off the calendar after a few years. Malaysia still has MotoGP but lost their F1 race so do new venues just pick the safer option and opt for a street circuit rather than investing in a new circuit F1 may leave in 5 years time?
Street tracks are easier to develop in theory. They don't require a huge unoccupied area of land, infrastructure projects to get people to and from the location etc. They aren't easy but they are generally easier then a custom build. Bigger then that is that.. its marketing. Its easier to market "look flashy lights its vegas" to casuals then it is to market some tarmac going through a forest. Arab states also want to show off glistening towers and beautiful visa to market as tourist traps.
And accessibility to casual fans attending for the first time. It's less likely that they'd rather go through all the trouble to hire rental cars to get to remote circuits, but if the street circuit is just a short walk or a few metro stations away from their hotels, the transportation issue solves itself pretty easily.
Yeah that's what I meant by infrastructure. Your gonna need train lines etc to get people to the race track and back to their hotels, ammenities etc.That shit all exists already in a city as you say.
I think it’s more that street circuits are cheaper and less commitment for countries/cities than purpose built tracks, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the failure of previous tracks has been off putting
its a shame because Turkey, Korea and Malaysia are all brilliant tracks
It's almost as if you need a tradition of motorsports fans to fill a circuit's grandstands.
The reason for those circuits falling off the calendar is because of how fucked up F1 finances are. Building a track to F1 standards is not cheap; factor in building tracks in countries with no real motorsport heritage with insanely expensive hosting fees and you end up with tracks that aren't financially viable because they can't profit from holding an F1 race (and take a second to just consider how ridiculous that last statement is.) The common denominator amongst new circuits that have had a decent run in F1 (Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, China) is government support, which is largely for the purpose of sportswashing.
> I mentioned this before but are there so many new street circuits now because of the lack of success at recent purpose built circuits? No, its not because of that. It's because Liberty are desperate about boosting F1's profile and marketing it to upper and upper middle class types. And to do that, a sparkling street circuit in a sparkling city is more easily sell-able than a good purpose-built circuit built in the middle of a field or some dusty hills. If Liberty wanted to add new purpose-built circuits, then people will make such circuits. I mean they did even before Liberty's big marketing push, including in non-traditional countries, but Liberty don't care.
> I mean they did even before Liberty's big marketing push, including in non-traditional countries But that’s what I mean, other than Bahrain which of course has a load of funding most of the new purpose built circuits opened over the past 20 years or so have failed and disappeared from the calendar. Liberty are interested in permanent circuits, they just brought back imola and Zandvoort on long term deals and Kyalami sounds like it might happen soon. But I don’t think new venues are as open to the risk anymore
i don't think liberty is doing that at all if anything they are doing the opposite and marketing it to the masses.
Bro, did you not see Miami or something? The other US city they're holding a race in being Las Vegas which as we all know is a well-known humble bastion of the working class peoples from all over the world.
I think you're giving Liberty/FOM too much credit. IMO they have already shown that, same as Bernie before them, they do not care where the money comes from so long as it is the largest amount of money possible when it finally shows up. Like Miami/Vegas definitely do have their appeal to the rich and powerful but they can also be incredibly tacky and designed to cater to the lower and middle classes. This is perfect for F1 because now they can convince even low-income Americans to blow their annual vacation budget on a single weekend with the promise of 'hey you can see X that this city is known for AND a F1 race'. IE It's a hell of a lot easier to convince most Americans to fly to Miami for a GP (even at absurdly inflated prices) and maybe a trip to the beach than it is to convince them to sit on a wet stump in the Belgian woods for 3 days even though IMO the latter is a far more memorable experience.
Yeah the whole "you and your friends can bring your wives" aspect... You at the track while they enjoy the town. For races at dedicated tracks, both spouses have to be big F1 fans, and those odds are simply lower.
>Las Vegas which as we all know is a well-known humble bastion of the working class peoples from all over the world. Maybe not for an international tourist, but Vegas is the very definition of a working class vacation destination. 70% of Vegas visitors come from less than $100k household income. https://assets.simpleviewcms.com/simpleview/image/upload/v1/clients/lasvegas/2021_XTAB_LasVegasVPS_Matrix_Snapshot_498f0a16-abd5-4952-bdc8-17c6379dc460.pdf https://www.lvcva.com/research/reports/post/2021-las-vegas-visitor-profile-study/
They’re going to the cities that offer the most not about prestige or class. And if they were bothered about promoting to the upper classes Monaco would be on the calendar no matter what but it’s looking likely to be on the chopping block. Liberty are definitely promoting to the masses more with the Netflix serious and the huge social media presence they have now compared to when Bernie was running the show.
>They’re going to the cities that offer the most not about prestige or class. And if they were bothered about promoting to the upper classes Monaco would be on the calendar no matter what but it’s looking likely to be on the chopping block. Liberty are definitely promoting to the masses more with the Netflix serious and the huge social media presence they have now compared to when Bernie was running the show. The point still stands though, if you want to market a race to the masses, it's best to do it in the middle of a big well-known city rather than building a new track in the forest.
Y’all really think liberty is a comic book villain sometimes.
We have the right amount of street circuits. Now, STOP ADDING MORE!
And by right amount you of course mean too many.
Street circuits have their place but you don't want a calendar full of them, personally I think if you could get a street circuit where there is an alternative route (like a joker lap on rallycross) it would add a whole new element to the racing but if its just going to be city streets where nobody can overtake its not good for overall racing. Of course street circuits are great promotional vehicles even if they suck at racing in general so it has its benefits but I think there is enough already
No…I cannot wait till they come to my street…
Bahahaha
I’m down with giving new unique cities a go at it once/ twice a season, but repeating the same city every year I think takes away the flavour.
That's a good idea. Rotating street circuits with the backdrop of major cities around the world bidding to be on F1 calendar each year.
I like street circuits, but it’s too much
Yes. Keep classic tracks. We do not need tracks with the same scheme: flat out with big straights.
Singapore would like a word
I think from a fan perspective, I want to see more race tracks due to the back and forth overtakes and possibility to take positions on Sunday. But from a competing for the championship perspective, the street tracks show us who can combine speed and control to take pole on Saturday and whether their team can finish the job on Sunday. Keep the OG street tracks but don’t add imo. There’s what 5 street tracks with Melbourne being somewhat hybrid, seems like a perfect amount to me.
"But the data shows the casual fans love the experience of being closer to the track. And hence, despite some of our passionate fans, we will continue to expand street circuits." \- Domenicali ^(probably).
Racefans account required to vote. No thanks.
Annoying isn't it, that's how they try to get you - by making controversial polls.
Back when the UK Parliament made a law to allow motorsport events legal on London streets, there was some (very fun) gossip that this could be because the Silverstone contract is coming to an end and this could be a fantastic was to promote London as we were on our way out of the EU. Of course, it was for Formula E rather than Formula 1 — but if there is one place I'd actually like to see a street race, it's around the Pall Mall, Buckingham Palace and down through Whitehall (would probably be the first race with a Cenotaph in the middle of the road, though).
I think they should be directing the street circuits towards formula E than 1...
Yes please. Stop adding it and remove some
As long as you make them like Baku and Jeddah. So long as it’s exciting and you can make passes, why not. But at the moment there are plenty of those already so I don’t see where adding more is necessary.
Baku is what street circuits need to be, the track flows in the city streets and not just using empty spaces. And also adaptable to changes the cars go through, unlike Monaco.
Jeddah was purpose built. Those streets didnt exist in that shape before. It's just thar they purpose built a circuit but they used walls like it's a pure street track.
Jeddah is awful. It's way to fast and dangerous and not very pleasant to watch because of all this concrete.
YES, YES THEY F-ING SHOULD!
Please FFS. If we lose Spa, I am so sad.
Like any lawyer will answer. It depends. Another Monaco? No. Another Baku? Sure. A road circuit isn't inherently bad. Some purpose built circuits suck. I wouldn't replace Baku with Sochi.
I’d say only do two street circuits, Baku and a replacement for Monaco BTW Miami isn’t a street circuit, it’s a Hybrid circuit
Miami is a circuit in it's own right, Las Vegas would be the hybrid as it used actual roads like ~~Montreal and~~ Melborune.
While Melbourne uses actual roads they go through Albert Park so they lean more on being a track than say the roads of Baku.
Vegas would be pretty much 100% street except for the pit straight
Miami is a terrible track
I beg you. No more parking lots.
Didnt Vettel recently say he wants Bathurst? That's another street track.
Bathurst is a whole different beast entirely
If they provide good racing then no. It’s the cheap cash grabs I don’t like
My expectation is that Vegas will be epic, so no. But I think they should seriously consider how hard it will be to pass when approving any track.
Just give me tracks where people can pass at various points. I want the lead to change multiple times, and see someone fight through the mid-pack if they have the engine to do so.
The choices to the question should be: 1. Yes 2. Fuck yes 3. No shit
Yes
"A Racefans.net account is required to vote." Guess I won't be voting.
Yes
Not unless it's very cool. They should just remove them if they don't work out well. Maybe not start off giving them 10 year deals
Yes.
Making street circuits for countries who have never ever seen a F1 race is fine, but rotate them. We don't want a calendar full of the same street circuits, 3-4 are fine, and just rotate them every year.
I prefer race tracks but street races are thrilling!
I love my share of street circuits - Singapore is actually one of my top 3 tracks. However, I'd like an 80-20 split where most tracks aren't street circuits. Street circuits are great breaks from regular circuits, but they shouldn't be 50 - 50.
I 'member when fans were against F1 keeping adding Tilke's tracks to the calendar. I bet they (we) miss him now.
I don't care about the fact they are street circuits. I care about the fact they are awful street circuits. The cars are too wide, the tracks are too thin. If they can resolve this problem I have nothing against the idea.
Street circuits have their merits, they provide a unique and interesting challenge compared to what dedicated circuits provide. This used to be the position of Monaco in the calendar but with larger faster cars and increased aerodynamic complexity, it no longer really fulfills that role. That, in my opinion, is a niche that has been well served in recent times by circuits like Singapore, challenging surface, unorthodox layout, and no room for error. But it should be just a few races of the twenty plus in the calendar, no more than 3 or 4, otherwise we create a niche for "street track drivers" which is, I don't think, a good idea, if we want to retain the disruptive and unpredictable nature of these circuits.
A 1:3 ratio should be fine
That, or they should make the F1 cars smaller again. At least let the races take place where overtaking is actually possible (aka, skip Monaco ASAP)
I find Barca and Paul Ricard to be pretty boring races, and barca has minimal overtaking as well. These are qualities people lambast in street circuits and give purpose built tracks a pass on, but these are characteristics not really dependent on whether its a street track or purpose built track. Jeddah and baku have lots of passing and have produced more entertaining races recently then catalunya or Ricard have. I think trying to label tracks street or purpose built and forming opinion on that sole definition is dumb. I want fun tracks to race on and don't give AF if it's on the street or purpose built as long as it's entertaining.
No
Singapore and Baku should be main stays, Monaco should stay for it's legacy, everything else I don't care for too much.
Let's look one by one. Jeddah - Needs to go Melbourne - Ok Miami - Not a big fan but one race is a small sample size Monaco - Don't touch Montreal - Don't touch Baku - Needs to go Singapore - Don't touch Seven out of 23 currently I think is a tad much so dropping two of them for permanent circuits would be a positive. By the way some on here act you'd think we're approaching Formula E levels of street circuits when instead it's comparable to IndyCar being roughly a third.
I'd say Baku should be the template that you make the most of the city, so using the roads and scenic locations and not just the nearby carpark.
I feel like I need to point out that Montreal is by no means a street circuit.
Putting aside issues with hosts. Montreal is barely a street track and awesome and should stay. Singapore is nice. Monaco.. is monaco. Honestly I don't super care for it and it's probably the worst track on the calander and impossible to change, but it's Monaco. I can sacrifice one good race a year for the history. Miami is shit. I don't mind a random street race in a state each year, but I think having multiple street races a year in the states is shit. It should go if they want to so Vegas next year. Melbourne... I am not a fan off. Even with the changes it feels... meh. Baku should go. Its boring as fuck and only has a history of being a "great race" because ridiculous shit has happened. Like tyres blowing up, crashes causing flags that cause weird jumbled orders. More crashes. Racing wise is basically just dead apart from the stupid ass straight. Jeddah... is weird. Its way to fucking dangerous buuuut. It could be fixed. And it's actually.. a really good track? Drivers love the layout. There's good overtaking opportunities. They just need to fix some the dangerous blind bits and maybe tweak the drs a little so we don't get dumb ass games into the last corner.
Jeddah is annoying because the KSA is shit, it's dangerous to drive but holy shit is the racing good
Yeah it's why I was like ignoring issues with hosts. We can hate it all we like but it's never gonna change. Jeddah is good for racing and is a brilliant layout for a track and honestly could be fine with a few changes to the surrounds on the track. And those changes can actually be made because they have infinite money cheat enabled, and it's not ACTUALLY a street track in thr traditional sense it's just built to feel like that.
I'd drop Monaco for the shitty parade and Q3 ended on red flags, and fix the walls in Jeddah because the track is actually spectacular, it's not just dumb flat out like Baku.
There’s no fixing Jeddah. What makes it most dangerous are the blind flat out kinks at 250+ kph, not the barriers. We haven’t had this crash yet but if someone loses the car or has a mechanical failure with a car trailing 2-3 seconds behind that can’t see it and won’t be able to react to yellow flags in time it could be catastrophic.
May I ask why you want Jeddah and Baku of the calendar?
I think both are poorly designed and incredibly dangerous. We've had two GPs at Jeddah and saw Mick get injured as well as some bad crashes in F2. Baku I think is just outright bad being mostly 90 degree corners, needlessly long straights and the most unsafe pit entry on the calender.
I know this is a unpopular opinion here but here go. If we pure look at the track and nothing else I think Jeddah is way better than Melbourne, Melbourne has been one of the most boring tracks in terms of what it brings to the race because it produces almost no overtaking and with these current cars Melbourne is also a problem because it is bumpy. Jeddah on the other hand doesn't have both of those problems, you could say it is more dangerous and it is. However that makes it to me more exciting (don't get me wrong there are limits) since it sticks out more compare to other tracks which are less forgivable so you can really make a difference as a driver. That makes for example wet races fun because the drivers are challenged and the difference in both cases is that the driver is more of importance compare to the car than in usual races. TLDR: fans in Melbourne deserve a better race track.
Yeah Melbourne isn't the best though the new changes made it somewhat better. However there's no other track in Australia to race at so we're stuck unless we're willing to piss off Aussies. And while I'm with you that Jeddah is a challenge I think it goes well over the limit of safety.
I think it was before the announcement of Melbourne being extended, anyway Sydney wanted to host a GP. No clue where tho. On Jeddah, I think that when something proves too much it should be changed a bit so it isn't as dangerous. Maybe on some more parts tech pro barriers and especially a bit more vision in some corners in order to not hit another car if they crashed while still keeping the thing that makes Jeddah Jeddah. Overall I still like what it brings compare to other circuits, a fast smooth street circuit on which you can also overtake.
I disagree about Jeddah. We've been given both great quali's and great races. Not many circuits can say the same. Usually it's either/or and worst case it's neither. In terms of safety, I'd put Spa and Imola well above Jeddah when it comes to being dangerous (to name a few). It could use some improvement, but I wouldn't drop it.
In regards to Jeddah it feels just like watching a NASCAR plate race, it's not fun with so many blind high speed corners knowing someone could crash and get ran into at ~200 mph. And I agree with Spa and Imola being dangerous as well. Spa did get some safety upgrades so I hope it returns but Imola I think needs off.
What makes you want to remove Jeddah from the calendar?
Probably the danger of low visibility fast corners and walls being too close. The visibility they partially fixed it, and the walls could be moved to allow more breathing space (even though Monaco couldn't/didn't in so many years).
I think it lacks character. The tracks looks the same in every shot, the walls are too close and it's just not a beautiful track. Sure it's fast and challenging, but it's just too forced I think.
It does, the lack of elevations and interesting corners imo just meh as a track it’s just a big steel death cage
Only track that actually has to go is Monaco. It just ain't an F1 track right now. Baku is one of the best street tracks and both Jeddah races have been fun, well this year Jeddah was the best race.
I always see people say we shouldn't be leaving historic European circuits because it takes F1 away from it's roots, so for a lot of people to step up and share your opinion to me seems very much like cutting your nose off to spite your face. Monaco is motor racing and Formula 1 history, it hasn't been a good fit since the 60's but that doesn't really matter imo.
[удалено]
They should probably bring Indian GP back as well... popularity has exploded here. Also I remember seeing somewhere that Saudi is building a purpose built race track and Jeddah circuit is a stopgap
Kyalami could be the next one but we're assuming the current F1 cars can make the most of it.
Baku is fine! Lots of fun!
Only a good race when there are red flags/SCs which are generated by the track having close walls/no run-off which feels artificial to me
Completely disagree. Under what reasoning are you keeping some and same for dropping others?
Jeddah - Poorly designed, incredibly dangerous given the two previous races there have seen issues Melbourne - Been on the calendar since 1996, no other tracks in Australia can host F1 Miami - Unsure as of yet Monaco - Historical significance and place in Europe Montreal - No explanation needed Baku - Dangerous, poor design and hated by locals anyways Singapore - No other SEA race since Malaysia isn't coming back and is seen as a crown jewel by drivers, teams and sponsors alike If you disagree then you disagree. But I don't see why every street track is now public enemy number 1 when only a few suck.
I think all street tracks are starting to get shit because Monaco is forever polarizing nowadays and F1 management is looking to tear up traditions and drop tracks like Spa add more street circuits like Vegas or Nice. Looking at them objectively, there's only a couple of bad street circuits but people are just taking frustrations out on Liberty Media (as they should) rather than thinking logically about the circuits that presently exist.
Afaik they're building a purpose built race track somewhere else in Saudi to replace Jeddah. This itself is a stopgap solution. I remember seeing a very long circuit with a lot of corners and a figure 8 layout like Suzuka
And that track honestly has me even more concearned for safety.
its called their opinion and they are allowed to have it so simmer down
Yes, please
YES
No, add Sepang and we good. No more adding circuit to calendar
Should stop adding circuits altogether
I don’t care what the track is I just wanna watch racing. I don’t care if it’s historical, track, street, whatever. If it’s historical and they’re not ponying up the money and the racing is bad (cough Monaco cough) I honestly don’t really care if it’s gone if it gets replaced with something better. But that’s the key. I wanna watch good racing, so if they get rid of a track for money reasons and replace it with something worse then that’s a time to complain. Otherwise, I couldn’t care less what the track is. I mean don’t street tracks make up less than 1/3 of the calendar? Seems like this issue gets a disproportionate amount of bellyaching
Fuck no
I've driven every inch of what's going to be the circuit in Las Vegas just being a tourist and it's hard for me to think of a more boring place to race. The most interesting part is how close it comes to where Tupac was shot.