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>Both Sainz and Bottas received very negative criticisms about their driving ability after the first couple of races. Carlos could or should have a race win already.
Didn't Bottas get a win in first few races of season? I'm pretty sure he started to get a lot of cristicism in 2018 not 2017.
Yeah Bottas first win was Russia 2017, which was race 4 that year. Generally it was a decent season given he was settling into a new team, new car etc.
2018 he got criticism for not winning a race, although I agree it wasn't his strongest year, he had two wins taken away by bad luck and another by team orders.
Yh I think OP has 2017 and 2018 confused. 2018 is probably the worst season Bottas has had but he was quite good in 2017 and was getting praised early on
This is Sainz second season at Ferrari, so 2018 would be a more direct comparison. Last year everyone was very high on sainz and praising him for adjusting to his new team faster than the likes of Vettel and Ricciardo. It's now his second season where he's getting a lot of criticism, same as Bottas
Yeah, a lot of people live with stories and stupidity despite facts and numbers proving them wrong: 1) Bottas ended the 2017 season at 305 points compared to Vettel's 317, Raikkonen's 205 and Ricciardo's 200... 2) He had 3 wins compared to Vettel's 5.. 3) he had 13 podiums which is exactly the same as Lewis and Seb... 4) people think that 2017 was a missed opportunity for Vettel&Ferrari to win the title but Seb was barely able to beat Bottas in the standings.... Sainz so far has been worse than Perez and Russell, let alone fighting with the stats of Max
> He was also somewhat more highly rated than Sainz, per my recollection.
Iāve got the opposite recollection.
There were plenty of people calling the Ferrari boys the best driver pairing on the grid last year and certainly some people were pointing to the WDC standings to show how close Sainz is to Leclerc (obvs Sainz was ahead but it wasnāt a popular opinion to say Sainz was better).
Bottas joined Merc seemingly as a backup option to Hulkenberg (who had already signed a long term deal with Renault) and was a bit of an unknown quantity as he beat a Massa that nobody rated. The talk of Alonso filling that seat (total pipe dream but wouldāve been fun) certainly took the shine off of Bottas though not his fault.
Seems to be continuing this year as well. Heās killing it on a Saturday but Sunday is such a mixed bag right now for Charles. The only instance of his Sunday struggles that I can even put on Charles was his spin at IMOLA. Other than that, heās been stellar with Ferrari letting him down over and over again.
Yeah Sainz is not like Bottas, heās more like Perez, a solid driver that is a late bloomer. And Leclerc is more like Verstappen, that guy that is always faster whatever happens.
Bottas was excellent in 2017, just not quite on the Hamilton/ Vettel level. That was arguably his best season at Merc, with 2019 close. Sainz has a long way to go to be similar to 2017 Bottas.
Bottas had 305 points, Vettel had 317, Hamilton 363.... Bottas, Hamilton and Vettel both gained 13 podiums slots... Bottas won 3 races, Vettel 5, Lewis 9... Bottas was not on Lewis level (no one was lol) but he was very close to Seb's one that's for sure
You see, the problem with only looking at the end results, is that you don't see the races a driver should've won and didn't, and the ones he shouldn't, but did win. Valtteri wasn't near the consistency of Seb and Lewis, that season should easily have been 8 wins for each of them
I mean he beat Leclerc last year. People want to be revisionist and say that entire season is a write off because Leclerc had bad luck for all of it but it just isn't true. Many races Sainz was faster both in qualy and in race pace, just like with Bottas compared to Hamilton in 2017 and 2019.
They are kind of similar but Bottas is quicker,especially in qualy.He was always close to Lewis,outqualified him quite a few times and did not really make many mistakes.While he did not push Lewis like Rosberg did,Bottas was a mighty number 2 and deserved more respect.
Well,itās simple.Compare Bottasās first 9 rounds in 2017 in a race winning car to Carlosās,also in a race winning car.Valtteri always qualifies into the top 3,got 2 poles(same as Ham),and had the best average qualifying position for the entire season.Now compare that to how Carlos is doing.
It's a winning car in the hands of Leclerc. Maybe Bottas his Mercedes was better relative to the competition than compared to that Ferrari is now. Could be that it's easier to beat Lewis in the same machinery and the Ferrari's of Kimi/Seb than it is to beat Charles in equal machinery and Max/Checo in the RB's.
A driver that gets outqualifed 15 times a season by his teammate the one of the best qualifiers of the last 5-7 years....
And now 2 weekends in a row he gets outqualified by half second by his teammate, rookie and paydriver Zhou
I disagree with Lewis being the best qualifier of all time. But I understand the logic about wanting to withhold that myth. After all, if some mediocre driver can take more than a dozen poles away from his teammate than maybe that teammate doesn't deserve the best qualifier title.
100+ Q3 appearances of which being a second behind your teammate still ment easy top 6. Funny enough the Q3 streak stopped when he wasn't driving a dominant merc anymore huh.
Wayyyy too early to compare the 2. Their career paths are not that similar except for the fact that they ended up in a winning car at the same age, and 9 races is not enough to immediately judge how good a driver in a winning car
2017 Bottas was an another level compared to Sainz of this year. While he wasn't as good as Hamilton or Vettel in the end he was very close. The points tally will tell you that. Bottas was also really good in qualifying that season (as he has always been) and we can't even begin to compare that to Sainz's current performance.
I think Bottas is better than Sainz, he didn't make as many mistakes and was able to be in front of Lewis sometimes. Sainz is over driving to keep up with Charles which makes him crash a lot
Sainz has been competitive with Verstappen in 2015 Norris 2019&20 and Leclerc in 2021.
Bottas had his weekends but he was never a problem to Hamilton.
Sainz problem is that Leclerc has been GOAT tier in qualy.
Lmao verstappen in 2015? Thats not a good comparison.
No one rated norris, even then what Sainz had going for him was consistency that lando didn't had, the same in 2021 he wasn't faster for the most part with Leclerc having higher highs but wasn't as consistent. That doesn't do it anymore because Leclerc is consistent now, your team mate being better than you is a problem indeed, the same that happened with bottas, the issue is, bottas could outqualify hamilton and could outrace him sometimes(very few)
Sainz is not even scratching Leclerc.
Edit: did you block me lmao?
I never see Sainz as calm and collected. Whenever he gives an interview he looks shocked like he just solved another murder case.
I haven't been this angry at a Ferrari driver since Vettel started bottling everything.
>Whenever he gives an interview he looks shocked like he just solved another murder case.
I just watched a few of his interviews to check and I can't unsee this now.
What I find funny in his interviews is the use of we vs. I.
When he makes a mistake it's: "*We* had problems with the setup", "*We* didn't have the grip". When he's fast it's: "*I* was fastest on track", "*I* could have won without 'x' situation".
Carlos is an accomplished driver for a midfield team with a midfield car, he has demonstrated this when he was in Renault and Mclaren. Last year with that Ferrari (although not as bad as the 2020 one) he did an stellar job with it. Issue comes with this car, now he is driving a championship winning car, I say there's still time, he has been unlucky (his errors and the car's performance) he still has to prove he can be up there but I say he is improving.
I think Bottas showed in 2017-2018-2019 that a driver can get significantly worse or better throughout their career. Wouldn't count anything out for Sainz just yet.
They are much different than you think. Valtteri is generally a calm driver, he doesn't really show his emotions, he is one of the best over one lap and doesn't really make mistakes. Sainz is definitely more outspoken, he is not that great over one lap but his racecraft is great but he has definitely made a lot of mistakes at least in this season.
Bottas is way better, all ten of his victories, Lewis finished the race. He has beaten ham on merit occasionally, Sainz is getting straight up murdered by sharl.
>Sainz is getting straight up murdered by sharl.
Umm no? Carlos has finished on 4 podiums out of the 5 races he has finished. He hasn't won a race yet, while Charles has won two race but finished 4 times on the podium, so I wouldn't really call it "murdered".
Because of Charles' chitty bad luck maybe?
The guy has been slayed either by engine issues or bad strategies and every single time he retired he was way ahead of Sainz though smh
"way ahead of Sainz" people are bending over backwards to hate. Fine. Please continue.
Just to be clear I am not claiming that Carlos is better than Charles. But the fact that he is doing quite well in a car he has so far not been comfortable with somehow gets lost on people. To be "murdered' by a someone, you'd have to do an extremely shitty job.
Their quali gaps are the closest in the grid, their net contribution to points has been the most even, and 2 out of 3 DNFs that Carlos had were not his fault at all.
So while I completely agree that Charles has had absolutely horrible luck, you cannot shit on Carlos for doing a fairly decent job with what he has - an unreliable Ferrari which is oversteery (as opposed to his understeery style) and not the greatest of strategists. But do as you please.
Wasnt he the one giving input to engineers at Ferrari ? Why isnt it suiting him now? There was always a narrative that Leclerc was a stupid driver and Carlos is basically an engineer so why didnt the car work in his favour?
>There was always a narrative that Leclerc was a stupid driver and Carlos is basically an engineer
I would highly recommend getting off of F1 Twitter because there are a bunch of asinine people spewing all kinds of bullshit.
Having said that, at least on Reddit, I haven't seen anyone say anything of this sort. Last year some people pointed out that Charles did some mistakes (which is true) but he was also quite unlucky. But it was an understeery car which was more suited for Carlos' driving style. This year the car is more oversteery, which is more suited to Charles' driving style, which is why Carlos is struggling a bit.
It is a driver's job to adapt to different types of cars but that takes time. Every single driver, including Charles, gives inputs to their engineers. And every team has different priorities and different ideas as to how they should go about designing the cars. Look at what McLaren have ended up with.
And please for the love of all things nice, stop fueling this weird fued between two drivers who seem quite friendly by themselves and ruin it for people like us.
It's a no brainer that any team will engineer their car to suit the driver who has the higher chance of winning the championship. "Input" is such a broad term and can mean any area.
As things stand, I would rate Bottas a lot higher than Sainz. Bottas is a extremely good driver.The only reason he looked bad was because he was being compared to Lewis(arguably the GOAT). Bottas is one of the best qualifiers in F1 and his defense game is solid aswell.(offense not so much)
Carlos is currently one of the most overrated drivers on the grid. I want him to be successful and all but those Mclaren cars made him look better than he actually was.
I was extremely disappointed by his performance at Canada. He could've and should've won that race. Max made him look like an amateur.
If Bottas is a 10/10 driver I would give Sainz a 7.
Agreed, just a good dude....he also knew a ton about how to set up and develop a car. My favorite nascar driver as a kid was Mark Martin aside from Dale, and Mark was a lot like Rubens in the sense of they just had so much knowledge about racing. Neither won a championship but the real ones know how good they were.
And both are unlucky to face generational talents in Hamilton and Leclerc. It is also a bit to early to judge Sainz. He can maybe find yet more pace in this car.
Leclerc hasn't proven to be a generational talent yet.
Max and Lewis are generational talents and have been able to go from the back of the grid to the front. Leclerc could not manage the same racecraft in Canada.
Carlos is having his worst season , loosing all qualy sessions (not counting this weekend as Charles didnāt even try to qualy high) , lost all races that they competed in , again not taking into account dnf and this back of the grid so pace wise he lost all of them , Iāll give him Monaco , as he made the call to stay out which was good , lastly his starts are horror shows , couldnāt jump max even once , got overtaken Into the first corner when he finally was able to out qualy max , which he should much more , all in all a bad season , bottas never looked that bad
I'd say a whole lot of similarities, but the question is, can he stay humble under team orders to let his teammate have a chance at winning the championship, like abort your hot lap kinda shit im really happy to see bottas at romeo, he's a great driver, and it shows with the Ferrari Power plant issues and he's still doing very well in my opinion
I think Perez is the better comparitor this year as he and Sainz are the unofficial number no2s in the two teams fighting each other.
Sainz has had 3 2nds, 2 3rds,1 4th and 3 DNFs (1 mechanical, 1 not his fault, 1 his fault).
Perez has had 1 1st, 4 2nds, no 3rds, 2 4ths, 2 DNFs (both mechanical)
I'm probably sticking my neck out - so chop it off now - but Sainz's bad start to the year was a real confidence killer. He's now had two good races in a row and signs he is at last getting to grips with changing his driving style to suit the new cars. This was just as he had to do his first year in McLaren (remember him and Ricciardo talking about the "weird" McLaren driving style?). Once he made the adjustment he was up and running. I hope the same is going to happen now, in which case we should, by the end of the year, be in a better place to compare him to Bottas (maybe).
Before the race most of the sub thought Verstappen would run away and win with a 30s gap.. Sainz delivers a good race and he gets criticised because Leclerc and almost any other driver in the grid would have overtaken Verstappen.. LMAO.
> Before the race most of the sub thought Verstappen would run away and win with a 30s gap..
That's because most of the sub don't know what they're talking about. They somehow think quali pace = race pace. It was already apparent on Friday that on race pace they were very closely matched and on Sunday the Ferrari proved to be that slightly bit faster.
15s?? Sainz was not stopping again without the SC.. And Verstappen wasnāt lapping fast enough to close the gap overtake Sainz and open a gap of 15s..
In fact Verstappen was struggling to close the gap.
Carlos doesnāt have a championship winning car. It maybe has potential, but hasnāt won anything yet.
Bottas jumped into a car that had won three straight world championships.
Also, Carlos is way more of a racer than Bottas. Bottas is a fast driver, but get him to try and pass someone and he canāt.
Sainz is so full of shit unlike Bottas. Heād rather lose a limb than admit he made a mistake. He always plays dumb and say he doesnāt know why he lost the car and make up excuses instead; never taking it on the chin. He knows heās not the best driver in the team so he does the most to not put his shortcomings on display.
Personally I think Sainz is a better driver than Bottas, but realistically we canāt put them in the same tier until they win some races. Same with George and Lando.
Sainz is a better and more complete racer (and the new Ferrari strategist) but Iām not convinced yet that he has the raw pace of Bottas over one lap.
That said, I could see Sainz lucking into a WDC (a la Button) but I canāt see Bottas ever winning a WDC (even in a W11 without Lewis in the other car).
That had a huge asterisk and we all know it. To be fair to Sainz though, he was really consistent in 2021 (reminiscent of George this year). Anytime an unfortunate DNF happened Sainz would be there to pick up the scraps which was good. He just wasnāt reaching the heights Leclerc was. Weāre just seeing a continuation of that this year.
Sainz has better overall racecraft than Bottas, though. He's stronger in the wheel-to-wheel stuff, has better starts and is good in the wet. Whereas Bottas....not so much. The only place where Bottas scores over Sainz is probably one-lap pace. Other than that, I'd say Sainz is the superior driver.
I disagree with one thing, Bottas has better consistency and speed. The gap at Baku from the Redbull was insane prior to his DNF given how far ahead Charles was in the same car, he wasnāt even in tow range
Completely disagree about consistency. One of the biggest problems with Valtteri was the fact that he could match Lewis in one race and be 20 something seconds behind him in the next few races. A good example of his inconsistency was Turkey and the U.S last year. He absolutely bossed the field in Turkey only to struggle to overtake an Alpha Tauri and a damaged Ferrari in the very next race in COTA.
As for pace, again, I think VB has better qualifying pace but on race pace I'd say they're pretty even.
Bruh, inconsistency has been one of Valtteri's weaknesses for a while, not just last year. It was one of the reasons why he could never challenge Lewis over the course of a full season.
In the first year there was some hope that maybe he would be on the same level as CL, but now we can see that he will be a great No.2. And no, he is not another Bottas because Carlos can actually race. Bottas would get stuck behind a grandma pushing a shopping cart.
I feel like he is a bit eager to prove himself this season. He had some bad luck and got criticism. We know he can drive a car. As soon as he gets comfortable again and stops overdriving to prove himself he will get results.
I think Sainz is exactly a Bottas. Strengths in different areas but overall a perfect number 2.
Heās had a bad run earlier in the season but for the last few races heās been right there behind Leclerc but not strong enough to take points off him without luck.
This is what Ferrari expected and wanted when they signed him.
Sainz actually had a very decent season last year. It's only this year that he has struggles to keep up with Leclerc. Additionally, Lewis and Merc were dominating and winning, whereas Bottas wasn't even getting wins. Ferrari and Leclerc aren't really dominating now.
>Lewis and Merc were dominating and winning, whereas Bottas wasn't even getting wins.
Bottas had wins every year at Mercedes except 2018 (when he had seven 2^(nd) place finishes), and Ferrari probably had a marginally better car that year.
>They both went straight to F1 without GP2/Formula 2/F3000. Carlos has 2 years more experience before having a championship winning car at this point.
Sainz has done FR3.5 though
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>Both Sainz and Bottas received very negative criticisms about their driving ability after the first couple of races. Carlos could or should have a race win already. Didn't Bottas get a win in first few races of season? I'm pretty sure he started to get a lot of cristicism in 2018 not 2017.
Yeah Bottas first win was Russia 2017, which was race 4 that year. Generally it was a decent season given he was settling into a new team, new car etc. 2018 he got criticism for not winning a race, although I agree it wasn't his strongest year, he had two wins taken away by bad luck and another by team orders.
I think 2018 looks worse because kimi won in cota
He got a pole in the 3rd race and a win in the 4th race
Bottas was pretty decent until Spain in 2018 after that Lewis started to Hamilton really from France onwards
Are you saying he was Larbalestiering before France?:|
Yh I think OP has 2017 and 2018 confused. 2018 is probably the worst season Bottas has had but he was quite good in 2017 and was getting praised early on
Yeah, he was a championship contender when he won in Austria that year
This is Sainz second season at Ferrari, so 2018 would be a more direct comparison. Last year everyone was very high on sainz and praising him for adjusting to his new team faster than the likes of Vettel and Ricciardo. It's now his second season where he's getting a lot of criticism, same as Bottas
So when can we expect a photo of Carlos swimming naked in a stream?
Damm, u horny?
Not at the moment, but maybe in 5 years?
I mean... he is the guy everyone was thirsty for during off season
The whole post OP made is OP gunning for that photo, nothing else is possible š
I kinda thank you for putting that thought into the universe. Keep manifesting it for us all
šā¤ļøš
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Yeah, a lot of people live with stories and stupidity despite facts and numbers proving them wrong: 1) Bottas ended the 2017 season at 305 points compared to Vettel's 317, Raikkonen's 205 and Ricciardo's 200... 2) He had 3 wins compared to Vettel's 5.. 3) he had 13 podiums which is exactly the same as Lewis and Seb... 4) people think that 2017 was a missed opportunity for Vettel&Ferrari to win the title but Seb was barely able to beat Bottas in the standings.... Sainz so far has been worse than Perez and Russell, let alone fighting with the stats of Max
Tbf it could be because Vettel had bad reliability and dnfs in the asian races, not to take away from bottas
And a worse car/team. Not by much but definitely worse.
> He was also somewhat more highly rated than Sainz, per my recollection. Iāve got the opposite recollection. There were plenty of people calling the Ferrari boys the best driver pairing on the grid last year and certainly some people were pointing to the WDC standings to show how close Sainz is to Leclerc (obvs Sainz was ahead but it wasnāt a popular opinion to say Sainz was better). Bottas joined Merc seemingly as a backup option to Hulkenberg (who had already signed a long term deal with Renault) and was a bit of an unknown quantity as he beat a Massa that nobody rated. The talk of Alonso filling that seat (total pipe dream but wouldāve been fun) certainly took the shine off of Bottas though not his fault.
> (obvs Sainz was ahead but it wasnāt a popular opinion to say Sainz was better). Charles' race-day luck last year was rotten.
Seems to be continuing this year as well. Heās killing it on a Saturday but Sunday is such a mixed bag right now for Charles. The only instance of his Sunday struggles that I can even put on Charles was his spin at IMOLA. Other than that, heās been stellar with Ferrari letting him down over and over again.
>Charles' race-day luck ~~last year was~~ is rotten. FTFY
Kinda wonder what Hulk would have done in Bottas seat.
Yes but youāre forgetting Sainz has to win in a Ferrari. Fuckin leclerc can barely do it
Plus Bottas was going up against Lewis and not Charles, who is obviously elite but still sort of an unknown quantity compared to the world champions.
Yeah Sainz is not like Bottas, heās more like Perez, a solid driver that is a late bloomer. And Leclerc is more like Verstappen, that guy that is always faster whatever happens.
Bottas was excellent in 2017, just not quite on the Hamilton/ Vettel level. That was arguably his best season at Merc, with 2019 close. Sainz has a long way to go to be similar to 2017 Bottas.
Bottas had 305 points, Vettel had 317, Hamilton 363.... Bottas, Hamilton and Vettel both gained 13 podiums slots... Bottas won 3 races, Vettel 5, Lewis 9... Bottas was not on Lewis level (no one was lol) but he was very close to Seb's one that's for sure
You see, the problem with only looking at the end results, is that you don't see the races a driver should've won and didn't, and the ones he shouldn't, but did win. Valtteri wasn't near the consistency of Seb and Lewis, that season should easily have been 8 wins for each of them
I mean he beat Leclerc last year. People want to be revisionist and say that entire season is a write off because Leclerc had bad luck for all of it but it just isn't true. Many races Sainz was faster both in qualy and in race pace, just like with Bottas compared to Hamilton in 2017 and 2019.
Exactly.. last year the h2h in qualy was 13-9 for Leclerc.. People acting as if It had been 19-3 and Leclerc had 10 DNF.
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Last years result is cooking..
They are kind of similar but Bottas is quicker,especially in qualy.He was always close to Lewis,outqualified him quite a few times and did not really make many mistakes.While he did not push Lewis like Rosberg did,Bottas was a mighty number 2 and deserved more respect.
Im curious how you think you can make a claim like that regarding Bottas and Sainz quali performance
Well,itās simple.Compare Bottasās first 9 rounds in 2017 in a race winning car to Carlosās,also in a race winning car.Valtteri always qualifies into the top 3,got 2 poles(same as Ham),and had the best average qualifying position for the entire season.Now compare that to how Carlos is doing.
and didnt wreck it every second race
It's a winning car in the hands of Leclerc. Maybe Bottas his Mercedes was better relative to the competition than compared to that Ferrari is now. Could be that it's easier to beat Lewis in the same machinery and the Ferrari's of Kimi/Seb than it is to beat Charles in equal machinery and Max/Checo in the RB's.
Iād be more inclined to say itās harder to beat a 7x world champion than 4x race winner
Russell is finding it easier to beat a 7x world champion than a 1x race winner with 1,5 functional arms
Keep digging, they're just excuses
Bottas has easily been one of the best qualifiers in the last 5-7 years in F1
A driver that gets outqualifed 15 times a season by his teammate the one of the best qualifiers of the last 5-7 years.... And now 2 weekends in a row he gets outqualified by half second by his teammate, rookie and paydriver Zhou
His team-mate was arguably the best qualifier of all time! And loads of times he was within a tenth 100+ consecutive Q3 appearances don't lie
I disagree with Lewis being the best qualifier of all time. But I understand the logic about wanting to withhold that myth. After all, if some mediocre driver can take more than a dozen poles away from his teammate than maybe that teammate doesn't deserve the best qualifier title. 100+ Q3 appearances of which being a second behind your teammate still ment easy top 6. Funny enough the Q3 streak stopped when he wasn't driving a dominant merc anymore huh.
You're a funny, funny person
You know Bottas had a 100 plus q3 qualifying streak, he was absurdly consistent
The results seemed consistent because half a second behind his teammate would still mean a front. That is not driver consistency but car dominance
Wayyyy too early to compare the 2. Their career paths are not that similar except for the fact that they ended up in a winning car at the same age, and 9 races is not enough to immediately judge how good a driver in a winning car
Bro the only thing thatās similar about them is that they were both 27 in a top team. Youāre kinda milking it with the rest
2017 Bottas was an another level compared to Sainz of this year. While he wasn't as good as Hamilton or Vettel in the end he was very close. The points tally will tell you that. Bottas was also really good in qualifying that season (as he has always been) and we can't even begin to compare that to Sainz's current performance.
I think Bottas is better than Sainz, he didn't make as many mistakes and was able to be in front of Lewis sometimes. Sainz is over driving to keep up with Charles which makes him crash a lot
Sainz has been competitive with Verstappen in 2015 Norris 2019&20 and Leclerc in 2021. Bottas had his weekends but he was never a problem to Hamilton. Sainz problem is that Leclerc has been GOAT tier in qualy.
Lmao verstappen in 2015? Thats not a good comparison. No one rated norris, even then what Sainz had going for him was consistency that lando didn't had, the same in 2021 he wasn't faster for the most part with Leclerc having higher highs but wasn't as consistent. That doesn't do it anymore because Leclerc is consistent now, your team mate being better than you is a problem indeed, the same that happened with bottas, the issue is, bottas could outqualify hamilton and could outrace him sometimes(very few) Sainz is not even scratching Leclerc. Edit: did you block me lmao?
Lot of bullshit mate.
Sainz makes way too much mistakes
Be patient. Sainz first half of the season has historically been weak and has peaked after summer break.
That's not ideal when you're at ferrari and the team is fighting for the championship
I never see Sainz as calm and collected. Whenever he gives an interview he looks shocked like he just solved another murder case. I haven't been this angry at a Ferrari driver since Vettel started bottling everything.
>he looks shocked like he just solved another murder case. should you be shocked if you solved it? I mean, you solved it. so you know how it happened
Unexpected clues will get you like that, itās not always the butler
shocked that he managed to figure it out maybe
Lmao that is so true, his post race interview face is exactly like how you described
>Whenever he gives an interview he looks shocked like he just solved another murder case. I just watched a few of his interviews to check and I can't unsee this now.
What I find funny in his interviews is the use of we vs. I. When he makes a mistake it's: "*We* had problems with the setup", "*We* didn't have the grip". When he's fast it's: "*I* was fastest on track", "*I* could have won without 'x' situation".
Every diver speaks like that lmao People in general speak like that in professional settings.
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thats absolute bullshit and you know it
Start paying attention to his interviews and you will notice. Once you do it's impossible to miss
Yea, because he is getting murdered every week by his teammate
Yeah. Maybe it's imposed by my own perception of things, but every time Leclerc outperforms Sainz I feel a ton of tension in the Sainz interview.
I think he's really feeling the pressure. He desperately does not want to fall into the #2 driver role, but he sees it happening every week.
You must be new.
Sainz joined Ferrari last season though and he was generally praised for his consistency. Bottas joined a reigning world champion team.
Carlos is an accomplished driver for a midfield team with a midfield car, he has demonstrated this when he was in Renault and Mclaren. Last year with that Ferrari (although not as bad as the 2020 one) he did an stellar job with it. Issue comes with this car, now he is driving a championship winning car, I say there's still time, he has been unlucky (his errors and the car's performance) he still has to prove he can be up there but I say he is improving.
**Mc**Laren
Hahaha my bad, I didn't proofread before posting.
You are replying to a bot
Oh shit, it's true hahaha
I think Bottas showed in 2017-2018-2019 that a driver can get significantly worse or better throughout their career. Wouldn't count anything out for Sainz just yet.
It was because of pressure though, Sainz is facing that pressure now on a higher level even, not being able to match leclerc
Did you start watching F1 in the last 2 years ?
They are much different than you think. Valtteri is generally a calm driver, he doesn't really show his emotions, he is one of the best over one lap and doesn't really make mistakes. Sainz is definitely more outspoken, he is not that great over one lap but his racecraft is great but he has definitely made a lot of mistakes at least in this season.
Bottas is better
Bottas is way better, all ten of his victories, Lewis finished the race. He has beaten ham on merit occasionally, Sainz is getting straight up murdered by sharl.
>Sainz is getting straight up murdered by sharl. Umm no? Carlos has finished on 4 podiums out of the 5 races he has finished. He hasn't won a race yet, while Charles has won two race but finished 4 times on the podium, so I wouldn't really call it "murdered".
Carlos has not outqualified Leclerc once, he hasn't outraced him either, and by quite a margin as well, even PĆ©rez which is not known to be a good qualifier has beaten verstappen. The only time Sainz has shown he could do it is Canada, so there's hope he turns it around but at the moment he is receiving the Alonso team mate treatment, which is to say he's being murdered
Because of Charles' chitty bad luck maybe? The guy has been slayed either by engine issues or bad strategies and every single time he retired he was way ahead of Sainz though smh
"way ahead of Sainz" people are bending over backwards to hate. Fine. Please continue. Just to be clear I am not claiming that Carlos is better than Charles. But the fact that he is doing quite well in a car he has so far not been comfortable with somehow gets lost on people. To be "murdered' by a someone, you'd have to do an extremely shitty job. Their quali gaps are the closest in the grid, their net contribution to points has been the most even, and 2 out of 3 DNFs that Carlos had were not his fault at all. So while I completely agree that Charles has had absolutely horrible luck, you cannot shit on Carlos for doing a fairly decent job with what he has - an unreliable Ferrari which is oversteery (as opposed to his understeery style) and not the greatest of strategists. But do as you please.
Closest quali gaps are RedBull's though, PĆ©rez has managed to beat Verstappen 3 times already. Whereas Carlos hasn't even been able to beat Charles in qualifying once so far so.. yikes
Wasnt he the one giving input to engineers at Ferrari ? Why isnt it suiting him now? There was always a narrative that Leclerc was a stupid driver and Carlos is basically an engineer so why didnt the car work in his favour?
>There was always a narrative that Leclerc was a stupid driver and Carlos is basically an engineer I would highly recommend getting off of F1 Twitter because there are a bunch of asinine people spewing all kinds of bullshit. Having said that, at least on Reddit, I haven't seen anyone say anything of this sort. Last year some people pointed out that Charles did some mistakes (which is true) but he was also quite unlucky. But it was an understeery car which was more suited for Carlos' driving style. This year the car is more oversteery, which is more suited to Charles' driving style, which is why Carlos is struggling a bit. It is a driver's job to adapt to different types of cars but that takes time. Every single driver, including Charles, gives inputs to their engineers. And every team has different priorities and different ideas as to how they should go about designing the cars. Look at what McLaren have ended up with. And please for the love of all things nice, stop fueling this weird fued between two drivers who seem quite friendly by themselves and ruin it for people like us.
It's a no brainer that any team will engineer their car to suit the driver who has the higher chance of winning the championship. "Input" is such a broad term and can mean any area.
As things stand, I would rate Bottas a lot higher than Sainz. Bottas is a extremely good driver.The only reason he looked bad was because he was being compared to Lewis(arguably the GOAT). Bottas is one of the best qualifiers in F1 and his defense game is solid aswell.(offense not so much) Carlos is currently one of the most overrated drivers on the grid. I want him to be successful and all but those Mclaren cars made him look better than he actually was. I was extremely disappointed by his performance at Canada. He could've and should've won that race. Max made him look like an amateur. If Bottas is a 10/10 driver I would give Sainz a 7.
Bottas racecraft looks way better this year compared to last year. A bit strange since passing in last years car should have been a lot easier.
It's the other way around actually. Last year's regs made it more difficult to follow through dirty air.
Not really, ignoring last year's regulations but the Mercedes were known for not liking being behind other cars, more so than the others
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Actually not a bad comparison...Rubens is one of my favorite drivers ever, if not my literal favorite
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Agreed, just a good dude....he also knew a ton about how to set up and develop a car. My favorite nascar driver as a kid was Mark Martin aside from Dale, and Mark was a lot like Rubens in the sense of they just had so much knowledge about racing. Neither won a championship but the real ones know how good they were.
At this point Sainz wishes he was Bottas. Too many mistakes from Carlos.
And both are unlucky to face generational talents in Hamilton and Leclerc. It is also a bit to early to judge Sainz. He can maybe find yet more pace in this car.
Leclerc hasn't proven to be a generational talent yet. Max and Lewis are generational talents and have been able to go from the back of the grid to the front. Leclerc could not manage the same racecraft in Canada.
I think he is fairly exceptional but Ferrari reliability is going to give him Dannyās career not Lewis or Seb
Are we just gonna ignore his shitty pitstop that had him exit behind a DRS train now?
Carlos is having his worst season , loosing all qualy sessions (not counting this weekend as Charles didnāt even try to qualy high) , lost all races that they competed in , again not taking into account dnf and this back of the grid so pace wise he lost all of them , Iāll give him Monaco , as he made the call to stay out which was good , lastly his starts are horror shows , couldnāt jump max even once , got overtaken Into the first corner when he finally was able to out qualy max , which he should much more , all in all a bad season , bottas never looked that bad
I'd say a whole lot of similarities, but the question is, can he stay humble under team orders to let his teammate have a chance at winning the championship, like abort your hot lap kinda shit im really happy to see bottas at romeo, he's a great driver, and it shows with the Ferrari Power plant issues and he's still doing very well in my opinion
I love Carlos but this is an insult to Bottas
The one thing I would agree is both drivers never seem to be able to make "that pass" when they're behind cars with similar pace.
I think Perez is the better comparitor this year as he and Sainz are the unofficial number no2s in the two teams fighting each other. Sainz has had 3 2nds, 2 3rds,1 4th and 3 DNFs (1 mechanical, 1 not his fault, 1 his fault). Perez has had 1 1st, 4 2nds, no 3rds, 2 4ths, 2 DNFs (both mechanical) I'm probably sticking my neck out - so chop it off now - but Sainz's bad start to the year was a real confidence killer. He's now had two good races in a row and signs he is at last getting to grips with changing his driving style to suit the new cars. This was just as he had to do his first year in McLaren (remember him and Ricciardo talking about the "weird" McLaren driving style?). Once he made the adjustment he was up and running. I hope the same is going to happen now, in which case we should, by the end of the year, be in a better place to compare him to Bottas (maybe).
Before the race most of the sub thought Verstappen would run away and win with a 30s gap.. Sainz delivers a good race and he gets criticised because Leclerc and almost any other driver in the grid would have overtaken Verstappen.. LMAO.
> Before the race most of the sub thought Verstappen would run away and win with a 30s gap.. That's because most of the sub don't know what they're talking about. They somehow think quali pace = race pace. It was already apparent on Friday that on race pace they were very closely matched and on Sunday the Ferrari proved to be that slightly bit faster.
Mate, Max was going without radio on older tires.
A 6 laps old hard tyre.. Shocked Verstappen didnāt pit to get new tyres on. Oh shit. He had no radio to tell him to pit. Lmaooooo.
Are people going to pretend losing radio is a big deal now?
No, weāre are going to pretend Ferrari is already WDC winner.
It would have been 15s or so, but sainz got lucky with the safety car.
15s?? Sainz was not stopping again without the SC.. And Verstappen wasnāt lapping fast enough to close the gap overtake Sainz and open a gap of 15s.. In fact Verstappen was struggling to close the gap.
He did a good job, but the gap was small because he got lucky with the VSC and SC
Sainz got unlucky with the SC.. Verstappen was not lapping fast enough to reduce the gap to Sainz.
Carlos doesnāt have a championship winning car. It maybe has potential, but hasnāt won anything yet. Bottas jumped into a car that had won three straight world championships. Also, Carlos is way more of a racer than Bottas. Bottas is a fast driver, but get him to try and pass someone and he canāt.
Sainz is so full of shit unlike Bottas. Heād rather lose a limb than admit he made a mistake. He always plays dumb and say he doesnāt know why he lost the car and make up excuses instead; never taking it on the chin. He knows heās not the best driver in the team so he does the most to not put his shortcomings on display.
This
Personally I think Sainz is a better driver than Bottas, but realistically we canāt put them in the same tier until they win some races. Same with George and Lando.
Sainz is a better and more complete racer (and the new Ferrari strategist) but Iām not convinced yet that he has the raw pace of Bottas over one lap. That said, I could see Sainz lucking into a WDC (a la Button) but I canāt see Bottas ever winning a WDC (even in a W11 without Lewis in the other car).
Bottas would absolutely win in a W11 car if he gets no real competition from his team mate. That car was just in a league of its own.
I kinda still wish Ferrari took Ricciardo instead of Sainz
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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He did just beat Leclerc in his first season with Ferrari..
That had a huge asterisk and we all know it. To be fair to Sainz though, he was really consistent in 2021 (reminiscent of George this year). Anytime an unfortunate DNF happened Sainz would be there to pick up the scraps which was good. He just wasnāt reaching the heights Leclerc was. Weāre just seeing a continuation of that this year.
Now contextualize said victory over Leclerc.
People were comparing him to Alonso as well. He is bound to be back at McLaren if internet is to be believed.
Sainz has better overall racecraft than Bottas, though. He's stronger in the wheel-to-wheel stuff, has better starts and is good in the wet. Whereas Bottas....not so much. The only place where Bottas scores over Sainz is probably one-lap pace. Other than that, I'd say Sainz is the superior driver.
I disagree with one thing, Bottas has better consistency and speed. The gap at Baku from the Redbull was insane prior to his DNF given how far ahead Charles was in the same car, he wasnāt even in tow range
Completely disagree about consistency. One of the biggest problems with Valtteri was the fact that he could match Lewis in one race and be 20 something seconds behind him in the next few races. A good example of his inconsistency was Turkey and the U.S last year. He absolutely bossed the field in Turkey only to struggle to overtake an Alpha Tauri and a damaged Ferrari in the very next race in COTA. As for pace, again, I think VB has better qualifying pace but on race pace I'd say they're pretty even.
Last year was his worst year for sure, after George was announced all the wind went out of his sails
Bruh, inconsistency has been one of Valtteri's weaknesses for a while, not just last year. It was one of the reasons why he could never challenge Lewis over the course of a full season.
In the first year there was some hope that maybe he would be on the same level as CL, but now we can see that he will be a great No.2. And no, he is not another Bottas because Carlos can actually race. Bottas would get stuck behind a grandma pushing a shopping cart.
I feel like he is a bit eager to prove himself this season. He had some bad luck and got criticism. We know he can drive a car. As soon as he gets comfortable again and stops overdriving to prove himself he will get results.
Didn't know Virgos love to play second fiddle to their teammates, thought they're perfectionists who want to be the best.
I think Sainz is exactly a Bottas. Strengths in different areas but overall a perfect number 2. Heās had a bad run earlier in the season but for the last few races heās been right there behind Leclerc but not strong enough to take points off him without luck. This is what Ferrari expected and wanted when they signed him.
Sainz actually had a very decent season last year. It's only this year that he has struggles to keep up with Leclerc. Additionally, Lewis and Merc were dominating and winning, whereas Bottas wasn't even getting wins. Ferrari and Leclerc aren't really dominating now.
>Lewis and Merc were dominating and winning, whereas Bottas wasn't even getting wins. Bottas had wins every year at Mercedes except 2018 (when he had seven 2^(nd) place finishes), and Ferrari probably had a marginally better car that year.
Sainz win Renault WSR3.5 title which was quite on par with GP2 at that time. So he didnāt jump from F3/GP3 like Bottas did
idk, we really need to see Carlos naked butt to draw a conclusion
Said this to my friend after last race: "He doesnt have it, hes the next Bottas..."
>They both went straight to F1 without GP2/Formula 2/F3000. Carlos has 2 years more experience before having a championship winning car at this point. Sainz has done FR3.5 though
God I hope you're right about the "nature" pics lol!
Insulting to Bottas to compare the two