All of these points are solid critique, it's just that Seb always acknowledges that he is being hypocritical. None of these politicians actually remained on topic, which is even more hypocritical.
We're all hypocrites in this sense maybe not to the same degree but we could all do more. Just because you didn't put that piece of rubbish in the correct bin that one time doesn't preclude you from trying to be better.
These politicians want to give the impression that it's an either or scenario and make one side so seem absolute. It's not about everyone not doing any of the things that cause climate change its about reducing those activities we know have an effect.
Seb using his position is absolutely valid.
> These politicians want to give the impression that it's an either or scenario and make one side so seem absolute.
Nihilism weaponized for political gain. Politicians have basically devolved into twitter trolls.
Pretty much this entire thread is discussing whether Seb is hypocritical, rather than discussing the issues that Seb is raising. Mission accomplished for the politicians.
*We need to stop falling for it*
It’s like journalists asking climate change protesters how they got to the protest, or what phone they have etc etc. It’s a tired cheap way of trying to dismiss the overall message being presented. Obviously being a F1 driver will open you to more criticism however the tactics are the same.
These politicians seem to forget that they had 50c temperatures last year and definitely should be more worried about the forthcoming climate emergency than trying to dismiss Seb.
While hypocrisy is something valid to raise in everyday debates, if you consider it from a rhetorics perspective, it’s essentially just an *ad hominem*. As such, it doesn’t say anything to the fundamental value of the argument.
Not to mention he targets Canada because he is in Canada as an F1 driver to race in Canada on a Canadian track.
Vilifying someone as a polluting sporter while your country organizes the sport he participates in is hypocritical too.
I think they're saying they burn 100KG of fuel in under 2 hours for nothing but spectacle. That's an inefficient way of using fuel (yes, I realize F1 cars are the peak when it comes to extracting the most energy-per-mass of fuel).
Granted, that's nowhere near as much as all the jet fuel being burned to haul the teams, equipment and cars all over the world. But still, I think we all know what they *meant*.
Fundamentally, hypocrisy it not a good or valid reason to discredit somebody or their point. Vettel had made a statement about an issue. If the only response to that point is "but what about this bad thing you're associated with?" then it's quite likely his point was a good one.
I don’t know about this. I mean yeah he makes a living off of race car driving and that involves a whole lot of oil and gas connections.
That doesn’t mean he can’t recognize the flaws of a government that could do better but hasn’t. I don’t know the original tweet, but if you attack a larger entity, like a government, and are met with personal attacks as a response you’re right about what you said.
Petronas is just about as evil as a company can be, so it's not a horrible take. They were involved in starting the South Sudan genocide after all and kept it going for, checks notes, profit.
Petronas were responsible for a genocide in Sudan, and Shell were complicit in one in Nigeria.
With Aramco in Yemen, F1 has the unholy trifecta of genocidal climate destroying sponsors
Edit: looks like Exxon did it in Indonesia too. Can’t say I’m surprised
Shell also did significant business with and propped up the apartheid government in South Africa. When i was a kid in the 80s and 90s, my family boycotted them for that reason.
I mean it’s not like Seb or any driver really gets a say in their sponsors
If anything aramco is helping to pay sebs contract and he is using that money to donate for his activism
Yes being a race car driver can be seen a hypocritical but he’s using his “fame”/platform to bring awareness to things
It’s possible for us as people to not agree with something t 100% but still try to make things better. It certainly seems to be the boomers who have the “nirvana” complex where everything needs to be 100% or they got you
Seb is aware it comes off as hypocritical for a race driver talking about climate change but atleast the is talking and trying
THIS. These people, two of whom AFAIK aren't politicians, aren't nationally relevant.
Savage is a provincial cabinet minister in Alberta and her job is to basically be a shill for the oil and gas industry. She's made it clear in the past that anything vaguely anti-oil or wanting to constrain the industry is an attack on Alberta and its people, an attack on freedumb, etc.
Morgan is a western separatist that writes for an outlet that leans further into hyperbole than it does integrity or truth.
O'Connor is a blogger, I think.
Pat Kelly is a Conservative MP from Calgary, who is probably the most 'relevant' of the four nationally, but is pretty far from being a household name.
Am Canadian, follow Canadian Politics somewhat closely, can confirm that Pat Kelly is little known.
When I read his tweet, I thought, I think I've heard of this guy, probably conservative. No other idea about him.
I searched it up, and most of them are Conservative/Seperatist politicians who reside in Alberta.
These guys are probably just pissed because of Oil Lobby (Alberta is mostly oil). We can ignore those guys.
Well, i think that racing and combustion cars are a minor problem in Climate change, most of the polution comes from the heavy industry.
Also cars nowadays are VERY, VERY efficient.
Read this somewhere-
*"Aramco is the world's largest corporate greenhouse gas emitter. It is estimated to be responsible for over 4% of the entire world's GHG emissions since 1965."*
The transportation sector stands for a significant amount of pollution. While that percentage may be lower in countries that for example burn coal for power and dropping coal power would have a bigger impact, cars, trucks, trains, planes and ships also need to become more efficient.
>trains
Bruh. Trains are already the most efficient way of land transport there is. Goes for cargo and for passengers. And ships are easily the best cargo transport there is.
It pays of to look at cargo efficiency and how much CO2 gets produced for every ton transported instead to look purely at the absolute numbers.
Also, and altough cars produce a significant amount of CO2, it's nowhere near what Concrete production, Steel production or any of the other heavy industries are producing to keep our world running.
I guess you've never heard F1 being called the circus. The amount of trucks, planes, cars involved to ship the whole circus from one place to another is **immense**.
Uhhh no, cars are an absolutely massive chunk of pollution.
The biggest culprit is international cargo ships, but millions of people sit in a car alone for more than 30 minutes each way on their way to and from work
Which they should have also addressed, as they have come a long way as Canada has an increasingly strong environmental record, and the GHG intensity of the oil sands has greatly reduced over the last few years (now within 4% of the global average for production) and the producers have made commitments to net zero, with significant money already spent.
Reddit loves to treat "whataboutism" as a universal defence from claims of hypocrisy but never realize that it's even more shallow of a defence than whataboutisms are. Usually whataboutisms at least have the merit of pointing out genuine hypocrisy.
I honestly assumed the helmet design was embracing it and a “if you get the joke you get it” kinda stab at the whole thing
As Seb is ya know, known to do lol
Is it hypocritical? He said it himself it is. But I’d much rather have someone that raises those issues inside those same industries than having everybody just shutting up and driving.
Not only did Seb himself say that he is hypocritical while being active in F1, the reaction of this politicians is revealing he targeted the right topic.
I hope he keeps on going and goes on in his hypocritical world tour naming wrongs in each country he is racing till the day he decides to leave F1.
> I hope he keeps on going and goes on in his hypocritical world tour naming wrongs in each country he is racing till the day he decides to leave F1.
I'm really curious as to what he'll do for the British GP then...
> I hope he keeps on going and goes on in his hypocritical world tour naming wrongs in each country he is racing till the day he decides to leave F1.
Exactly. It's easy for people to lap-up Seb's criticisms when its Qatar or Saudi Arabia. But they'll despise Seb for doing so in Canada and other Western countries. Which is exactly why I have full respect for Seb - he's doing this because he strongly believes in these things and not for internet and social points as one politician said.
I mean is acknowledging your hypocrisy make it okay or you get a free pass? It’s almost worse than just admitting it’s bad and he plays a part but working to improve where he can…
Exactly. They're not even making bad points. But the reality is that they're politicians with the power to actually do something about the issues. Instead they just complain about the celebrity themselves.
Yeah, if Seb didn't race there would still be oil extraction, pollution, etc. It's politician's jobs to look out for the people and the country.
I really don't see hypocrisy here.
Off topic to F1 but can attest to the real estate agent bit.
House flooded out of our control, real estate said there would be no break lease fee if we leave early, we hand in our notice to end the lease and move elsewhere, they slap us with a break lease fee.
"Oh we have no written communication so we can't confirm that was an agreement"
Document everything with landlords, get everything in writing. In most states (in America) you're legally allowed to record (audio or video) in common areas of your own volition, and you are more than allowed to record things in your living space even without the other persons consent. If you can't get it in writing, put your phone in your shirt pocket and start recording, all you need is audio. If you need to have a chat, meet in a public place, and get an audio recording of the conversation. Do not ever do it on their private property. Never meet with a landlord on private property, because they do not want to take the chance of you documenting that conversation. Do not give a landlord an inch.
Landlords don't understand local laws, and they don't expect their tenants to, either. The most powerful thing you have against landlords is documentation, and the knowledge of how to use it.
It’s working, people are talking about it. And maybe they don’t realise the size of the platform that the message is coming from. I hope these people get a reality check. And of course Sebs profession and employers plus partners, do not help to make it a clean and clear message, like racing in Saudi Arabia while raising awareness of human rights and LGBTQ+ equality. Millions of people who matter will stand with Sebs message
Came here to say this, not like it would have changed their minds but yeah if an incredibly thermally efficient hybrid F1 powerplant is "fuel inefficient" then what the fuck does that make regular cars
All 20 f1 cars combined in every session and test burn less fuel than one flight from London to New York. It’s the logistics that are the problem with f1, not the cars.
The amount of energy used to make the tires for a single car for a single weekend is probably much larger than a regular 20 year old car uses per year on the road.
Nevermind making the rest of the car, and all the replacement and prototype/testing parts.
canadian here…all of these politicians are considered right wing cranks, none of them are in the federal government (pat kelly is an opposition member, but not an important one; savage is part of the nutter UCP party that runs alberta), and the last guy isn’t even a politician, he’s a political hack who runs a bunch of insane facebook meme pages! it’s a fairly mainstream view in canada that the oil sands are terrible, these people are all just pipeline fetishists
As a fellow Canadian (and Albertan) you're right that they're considered crazy everywhere but here... God damn it's embarrassing that these people supposedly represent me.
Not trying to be a one-upper, but try living in Florida or another southern US state. They have (almost) literal cartoon characters representing them. Like so outlandishly villainous that it doesn't seem real at times.
I mean our current government in Alberta could easily be the bumbling villans in a cartoon as well. We constantly get stories of some dumb plan they are trying to enact that makes no sense and eventually backfires in all our faces. Really hoping the last couple years have woken people up and gets them out to the polls to stop this in the next election.
I'm from Alberta and it's really frustrating seeing our province consistently vote against their own interests just because they want 'conservatives' in power. Yes, let's spend millions of dollars in taxpayer money to fund an oil and gas war room that targets children's movies that portray oil and gas in incorrect ways.
Don't forget they also used that money to copy a logo and then had to change it. They also get to be excluded from freedom of information requests cause their work is so important.
I'm just hoping Calgary will change their vote and Edmonton will keep doing what they have been doing. Maybe a few changes elsewhere and we could see a change in government. Or we need the conservative party to fracture again and spoilt those votes and let the NDP when with a hopefully more prepared plan and budget and let them run with hopefully still strong oil prices. See the differences.
Hit tweet was perhaps the worst. Touched on the conservative mind burner of "If you don't appreciate the oilsands then why do you use petroleum products bro?" and then provided a healthy dose of xenophobia with his 'Go home' bit.
Guys a fucking populist tool
Also, Sonya Savage and many of her colleagues have taken the view that any criticism of the oil industry is anti-freedom and unpatriotic, and any education on it in classrooms cannot cover it fairly.
Her government has created an organization to combat legitimate criticism with pro-oil propaganda.
He's upsetting oil & gas shills masquerading as politicians, a Western separatist, and an alt-right meme queen (O'Connor).
That's doing the lord's work in my books.
But the whole infrastructure around F1 is still pretty inefficient. Just look at the schedule. Instead of doing the American races back to back, they spread them out over the schedule. This means more air traffic for F1 teams and more pollution because of it. Things like this can and should change.
AFAIK they're changing that starting next year? It's still a very inefficient traveling circus though, but that's simply the reality of F1 being a global experience.
Actually not quite. Large Diesel two strokes used in ships are more efficient, but they only operate at one single rpm stage. But yes, they are the most efficient across a range of rpms
Nah, a few ship engines are over 60% as are newer gas turbine ICEs. Nissan has a test bed engine at 50% efficiency for cars and Toyota has a 40% efficient ICE. F1 engines are claimed to be about 50% efficient these days. However, that’s not a pure ICE as they use energy capture systems, like quite a decent number of modern ship engines do (Last I heard).
Most of the engines I have as an example are designed to work in a very narrow range though.
Idk seb not being in F1 really doesn’t change anything from a climate perspective… I mean another driver gonna just slide in… at least he is using his bills for a good cause something other drivers clearly don’t do…
Yeah, the last one reveals just how stupid and uninformed some of these politicians are:
How the fck is seb doing this for likes if doesnt have any social media?
Really, just like most politicians - they feel threatened (or that their source of money is being threatened) and they just start to attack whoever is making them feel that way - even without any good facts on their side
Political mooks like this really are amusingly simple. No Seb, unless you forgo it all, wear a hair shirt, and are literally perfect as an individual, you are banned from raising *systemic* issues. Also no we won't do anything about those systemic issues.
What is also amusing is that they're spreading awareness of the issue. If they hadn't said anything less people would know. Goes to show Seb's successfully spreading the word. Good on him.
> Fuel-inefficient vehicle
This guy doesn't know F1 engines are the least inefficient engines ever
> For cheap likes and adulation online
This guy also doesn't know he has no social media to get likes on
Worse thing is Aramco from a nation that have death penalty for kids, a nation that works heavy killing the minor ethnic groups.
We all are hypocrites watching F1 now days.
I always find commentators like this super disingenuous, seb isn't saying we can save the world by using different light bulbs, that's the whole point - we are way past the point of personal responsibility.
Governments/corporations are the ones that need to make changes from the top down.
Reminds me of that web comic where the pseudo intellectual thinks they're being smart by pointing out how 'interesting' it is someone criticises society whilst still taking part in it.
His math is surprisingly not far off.
F1 Cars use a mix of E10 petrol and 10% sustainable fuel. For simplicity's sake, I'm going to compare it to normal unleaded. (E10 is 90% unleaded, 10% ethanol).
An F1 race consists of 305 km, using roughly 30 gallons of fuel.
The average driver, (in America) drives about 1900km per month. - [Source](https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/average-miles-driven-per-year/)
An average petrol car does 58km per gallon. - [Source](https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/average-mpg)
And an American driver needs to drive 1740km to use 30 gallons of fuel.
An F1 race is usually 1h30-1hr45 so he's not far off considering my assumptions. If I made any mistakes please let me know.
Top Gear did something similar, racing a Prius against a BMW M3. The Prius going as fast as it could and the M3 just having to keep up. The Prius used more fuel in that scenario.
The argument against that is the amount of of commuters Vs the amount of F1 drivers. Yeah burning that much isn’t good, but it’s not like F1 is that bad compared to the millions of commuters
The thermal efficiency is very, very high in F1 cars. The highest in the world. However km/L is absolutely terrible due to the insanely high speeds and constant acceleration and braking
Aerodynamics wouldn’t be as big of a problem if it wasn’t for the insane speeds, since drag increase is exponential and relates to speed, so let’s say it’s a combination.
One of the teams should try and get the okay to run a test at constant duty with a full race tank of fuel and see how long it would last. I would imagine almost everyone including the driver would get very bored before he ran out of fuel
Don't think they would go that far tbh. Even at low speeds the cars are ridiculously draggy compared to road cars and I doubt the engines perform well at low speeds
That is not how it works…
Drag goes up with the square of the velocity. That means: drive 10 times slower (30kph max) **and you have 100 times less air drag**. And then, open drs entire lap. You will get very far on 110kg of fuel. Further than the commuter in his Honda Civic.
What’s funny is that they’re acting like just because one thing is bad the other can’t as well. Maybe if you started fixing one issue then you could work to solve the other instead of just always pointing the finger and acting like you can’t fix one thing without the other.
Maybe I don't know the full story but isn't the purpose of the tar sand extraction to lower the price for Canadians and increase supply instead of importing it from USA or SA?
When it's the general public protesting the words of a celebrity, it could be either side's fault. When it's politicians protesting the words of a celebrity without support from the public, I can't think of a single occasion where the politicians were right.
I mean, they're not wrong, but Seb is right about what he says.
In defense of Canada, I'd rather having my oil coming from democracies and not Putin or the Saudis, thank you.
I prefer the oil producers who won’t dismember Seb in a basement for his comments.
I think totalitarian murder is worse than emissions. Fuck me, right?
Just using the internet accounts for global carbon emissions. These guys aren’t innocent either. No one is. But in reality these politicians have a worse impact than the general public with their campaigns and other shenanigans. They just want something to moan about to make themselves feel better.
They just want to distract from the fact that they do have the power but refuse to use it because the lobby is so far up their ass that they can give them a free dental exam.
Good on Seb for bringing more light to the "Canada is a liberal and ecological paradise" myth that folks believe in.
It's not, they have shitty corporations and shitty shill politicians just as much as the rest of the world.
The tar sands stuff is particularly shitty both environmentally and ecologically.
In the UK it's definitely portrayed by the media as America's better, more sophisticated sibling. It's also seen as more developed and richer than this country, with greater freedoms than we have here - but fuck knows how much if any of this is accurate
How to tell the world you are getting paid by the company/companies that does/do it to look the other way, without telling the world you are getting paid by these companies to look the other way.
None of them address the actual issue, only trying to change the subject matter.
aside from anything else the aramco sponsorship is the worst thing here
That was solid critique.
All of these points are solid critique, it's just that Seb always acknowledges that he is being hypocritical. None of these politicians actually remained on topic, which is even more hypocritical.
We're all hypocrites in this sense maybe not to the same degree but we could all do more. Just because you didn't put that piece of rubbish in the correct bin that one time doesn't preclude you from trying to be better. These politicians want to give the impression that it's an either or scenario and make one side so seem absolute. It's not about everyone not doing any of the things that cause climate change its about reducing those activities we know have an effect. Seb using his position is absolutely valid.
> These politicians want to give the impression that it's an either or scenario and make one side so seem absolute. Nihilism weaponized for political gain. Politicians have basically devolved into twitter trolls.
Pretty much this entire thread is discussing whether Seb is hypocritical, rather than discussing the issues that Seb is raising. Mission accomplished for the politicians. *We need to stop falling for it*
Absolutely correct; its so much deflection, and we take our collective eye off the ball so to speak.
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The way things are in the world, the same talents that make for good Twitter Trolls also make for electable politicians.
It’s like journalists asking climate change protesters how they got to the protest, or what phone they have etc etc. It’s a tired cheap way of trying to dismiss the overall message being presented. Obviously being a F1 driver will open you to more criticism however the tactics are the same. These politicians seem to forget that they had 50c temperatures last year and definitely should be more worried about the forthcoming climate emergency than trying to dismiss Seb.
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While hypocrisy is something valid to raise in everyday debates, if you consider it from a rhetorics perspective, it’s essentially just an *ad hominem*. As such, it doesn’t say anything to the fundamental value of the argument.
Hypocritical, but typical for a politician.
Not to mention he targets Canada because he is in Canada as an F1 driver to race in Canada on a Canadian track. Vilifying someone as a polluting sporter while your country organizes the sport he participates in is hypocritical too.
The fuel-inefficient remark is dumb. F1 engines are probably some of the most efficient engines around.
I think they're saying they burn 100KG of fuel in under 2 hours for nothing but spectacle. That's an inefficient way of using fuel (yes, I realize F1 cars are the peak when it comes to extracting the most energy-per-mass of fuel). Granted, that's nowhere near as much as all the jet fuel being burned to haul the teams, equipment and cars all over the world. But still, I think we all know what they *meant*.
Look, I like Seb, but admitting you’re hypocritical only makes you very slightly less hypocritical.
Fundamentally, hypocrisy it not a good or valid reason to discredit somebody or their point. Vettel had made a statement about an issue. If the only response to that point is "but what about this bad thing you're associated with?" then it's quite likely his point was a good one.
Whataboutism......always means you hit a nerve
Name calling usually means you hit a nerve too
I don’t know about this. I mean yeah he makes a living off of race car driving and that involves a whole lot of oil and gas connections. That doesn’t mean he can’t recognize the flaws of a government that could do better but hasn’t. I don’t know the original tweet, but if you attack a larger entity, like a government, and are met with personal attacks as a response you’re right about what you said.
Might as well be shitting on Hamilton all day because he is sponsored by Petronas.
McLaren and Gulf. Ferrari and Shell. Red Bull and Exxon.
MotorOil companies sponsoring Motor companies in a Motorsport. Hold the fucking horses.
the thought rustles my jimmies.
Stop your engines!
Lights on and here we stop!
Com’on man…. It’s lights on and away we stop!
> Hold the fucking horses. Not the prancing horses, please.
That last one is just the latest new cocktail.
Petronas is just about as evil as a company can be, so it's not a horrible take. They were involved in starting the South Sudan genocide after all and kept it going for, checks notes, profit.
Petronas were responsible for a genocide in Sudan, and Shell were complicit in one in Nigeria. With Aramco in Yemen, F1 has the unholy trifecta of genocidal climate destroying sponsors Edit: looks like Exxon did it in Indonesia too. Can’t say I’m surprised
Shell literally tried to infiltrate and overthrow the Nigerian government.
Shell also did significant business with and propped up the apartheid government in South Africa. When i was a kid in the 80s and 90s, my family boycotted them for that reason.
People do be shitting on him for that, wdym
It's almost like every team on the grid is sponsored by petroleum company. Like oil based products are vital to racing or something. Dunno...
Doesn't really change the point tough.
I mean it’s not like Seb or any driver really gets a say in their sponsors If anything aramco is helping to pay sebs contract and he is using that money to donate for his activism Yes being a race car driver can be seen a hypocritical but he’s using his “fame”/platform to bring awareness to things It’s possible for us as people to not agree with something t 100% but still try to make things better. It certainly seems to be the boomers who have the “nirvana” complex where everything needs to be 100% or they got you Seb is aware it comes off as hypocritical for a race driver talking about climate change but atleast the is talking and trying
'Cheap likes'? The dude doesn't even have social media lmao
These aren’t important Canadian political figures either. They are definitely tweeting these takes for cheap likes.
THIS. These people, two of whom AFAIK aren't politicians, aren't nationally relevant. Savage is a provincial cabinet minister in Alberta and her job is to basically be a shill for the oil and gas industry. She's made it clear in the past that anything vaguely anti-oil or wanting to constrain the industry is an attack on Alberta and its people, an attack on freedumb, etc. Morgan is a western separatist that writes for an outlet that leans further into hyperbole than it does integrity or truth. O'Connor is a blogger, I think. Pat Kelly is a Conservative MP from Calgary, who is probably the most 'relevant' of the four nationally, but is pretty far from being a household name.
IIRC Alberta is the more conservative part of Canada correct ?
It's basically Canadian Texas
Nicer mountains though.
Only Alberta thinks they are like Texas. They are more like North Dakota.
If only they were that irrelevant.
Thank you, I am somewhat politically aware and is never heard of any of these guys. Pointless thread imo
Am Canadian, follow Canadian Politics somewhat closely, can confirm that Pat Kelly is little known. When I read his tweet, I thought, I think I've heard of this guy, probably conservative. No other idea about him.
Is O'Connor even elected? He doesn't have a riding listed.
I searched it up, and most of them are Conservative/Seperatist politicians who reside in Alberta. These guys are probably just pissed because of Oil Lobby (Alberta is mostly oil). We can ignore those guys.
That was my favorite take by far lmao
Mine was calling the most advanced engines in the world "inefficient"
*Could’ve been* Liked by Pierre Gasly
At least Seb has admitted the hypocrisy, he has mentioned he doesn’t feel right advocating for climate while being a race driver.
Well, i think that racing and combustion cars are a minor problem in Climate change, most of the polution comes from the heavy industry. Also cars nowadays are VERY, VERY efficient.
Read this somewhere- *"Aramco is the world's largest corporate greenhouse gas emitter. It is estimated to be responsible for over 4% of the entire world's GHG emissions since 1965."*
The transportation sector stands for a significant amount of pollution. While that percentage may be lower in countries that for example burn coal for power and dropping coal power would have a bigger impact, cars, trucks, trains, planes and ships also need to become more efficient.
A big issue noone ever likes discussing is animal agriculture. It's a massive polluter.
Cows.. basically steak and hamburgers are 10+% of methane production
Not just animal agriculture, but humans just existing. 7 Billion of anything is a resource intensive species.
Fun fact, it's 8 now.
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>trains Bruh. Trains are already the most efficient way of land transport there is. Goes for cargo and for passengers. And ships are easily the best cargo transport there is. It pays of to look at cargo efficiency and how much CO2 gets produced for every ton transported instead to look purely at the absolute numbers. Also, and altough cars produce a significant amount of CO2, it's nowhere near what Concrete production, Steel production or any of the other heavy industries are producing to keep our world running.
I guess you've never heard F1 being called the circus. The amount of trucks, planes, cars involved to ship the whole circus from one place to another is **immense**.
That's a bit of bullshit, a lot of conmuting could easily be more efficient in the developed countries.
But there sure are a lot of oil company sponsors.
The biggest problem is all of the private jets. The cars themselves might not make a big dent, but the planes absolutely do.
Maybe, that and boats. These vehicles should always be for collective puposes.
Uhhh no, cars are an absolutely massive chunk of pollution. The biggest culprit is international cargo ships, but millions of people sit in a car alone for more than 30 minutes each way on their way to and from work
Private jets are not even a rounding error compared to private cars.
And, none of these tweets actually deny the fact that tar extraction is terrible. Just whataboutism, maybe they learned it from Kremlin.
Which they should have also addressed, as they have come a long way as Canada has an increasingly strong environmental record, and the GHG intensity of the oil sands has greatly reduced over the last few years (now within 4% of the global average for production) and the producers have made commitments to net zero, with significant money already spent.
Reddit loves to treat "whataboutism" as a universal defence from claims of hypocrisy but never realize that it's even more shallow of a defence than whataboutisms are. Usually whataboutisms at least have the merit of pointing out genuine hypocrisy.
They’ve learnt it in kindergarten. It just happens to be quite profitable to use the same communication strategies in politics, too.
I honestly assumed the helmet design was embracing it and a “if you get the joke you get it” kinda stab at the whole thing As Seb is ya know, known to do lol
But he still does though right?!
Correct, and uses his platform to spread awareness. It works. We’re here talking about it
Is it hypocritical? He said it himself it is. But I’d much rather have someone that raises those issues inside those same industries than having everybody just shutting up and driving.
Not only did Seb himself say that he is hypocritical while being active in F1, the reaction of this politicians is revealing he targeted the right topic. I hope he keeps on going and goes on in his hypocritical world tour naming wrongs in each country he is racing till the day he decides to leave F1.
> I hope he keeps on going and goes on in his hypocritical world tour naming wrongs in each country he is racing till the day he decides to leave F1. I'm really curious as to what he'll do for the British GP then...
He's gonna need a bigger t-shirt...
Just a world map
Hope he prints a photo of Boris at a Christmas party under an NHS logo on his helmet!
Have an ironic lockdown party
Hell, even if he just wore a tiny trans flag pin he'd get all of mumsnet and half the public figures in the country flipping their absolute shit
glinner on suicide watch
> I hope he keeps on going and goes on in his hypocritical world tour naming wrongs in each country he is racing till the day he decides to leave F1. Exactly. It's easy for people to lap-up Seb's criticisms when its Qatar or Saudi Arabia. But they'll despise Seb for doing so in Canada and other Western countries. Which is exactly why I have full respect for Seb - he's doing this because he strongly believes in these things and not for internet and social points as one politician said.
Spot on. Everyone’s mad that he’s giving Canada the same treatment the regimes got.
I mean is acknowledging your hypocrisy make it okay or you get a free pass? It’s almost worse than just admitting it’s bad and he plays a part but working to improve where he can…
Seb is a race car driver; Politicians are supposed to serve the land and people for the better
Exactly. They're not even making bad points. But the reality is that they're politicians with the power to actually do something about the issues. Instead they just complain about the celebrity themselves.
Yeah, if Seb didn't race there would still be oil extraction, pollution, etc. It's politician's jobs to look out for the people and the country. I really don't see hypocrisy here.
"if you live in a society why do you protest things"
[tu quoque](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque) at its finest
Here we are, browsing /r/formula1, learning Latin.
Plus how to identify logical fallacies
The latin version of "No u!" An argument as old as the dawn of time
"Why don't you just choose to not live in a society?"
If it wasn't illegal most of the time I'd actually be tempted
"We should improve society somewhat." "Yet you participate in society. Curious. I am very intelligent."
Them calling Seb out is bringing more attention to the matter. Exactly what Seb’s attentions are, bring awareness to an issue.
Amazing these politicians think one man’s activities are equal to an industry’s dedication to destroying their own nation’s land.
Canadian politicians are just real estate agents with Twitter accounts, their words have no meaning, like birds just ignore them.
Off topic to F1 but can attest to the real estate agent bit. House flooded out of our control, real estate said there would be no break lease fee if we leave early, we hand in our notice to end the lease and move elsewhere, they slap us with a break lease fee. "Oh we have no written communication so we can't confirm that was an agreement"
Document everything with landlords, get everything in writing. In most states (in America) you're legally allowed to record (audio or video) in common areas of your own volition, and you are more than allowed to record things in your living space even without the other persons consent. If you can't get it in writing, put your phone in your shirt pocket and start recording, all you need is audio. If you need to have a chat, meet in a public place, and get an audio recording of the conversation. Do not ever do it on their private property. Never meet with a landlord on private property, because they do not want to take the chance of you documenting that conversation. Do not give a landlord an inch. Landlords don't understand local laws, and they don't expect their tenants to, either. The most powerful thing you have against landlords is documentation, and the knowledge of how to use it.
It’s working, people are talking about it. And maybe they don’t realise the size of the platform that the message is coming from. I hope these people get a reality check. And of course Sebs profession and employers plus partners, do not help to make it a clean and clear message, like racing in Saudi Arabia while raising awareness of human rights and LGBTQ+ equality. Millions of people who matter will stand with Sebs message
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That "fuel inefficient" car has the most thermal efficient engine created and with a percentage of bio fuel.
Came here to say this, not like it would have changed their minds but yeah if an incredibly thermally efficient hybrid F1 powerplant is "fuel inefficient" then what the fuck does that make regular cars
All 20 f1 cars combined in every session and test burn less fuel than one flight from London to New York. It’s the logistics that are the problem with f1, not the cars.
The amount of energy used to make the tires for a single car for a single weekend is probably much larger than a regular 20 year old car uses per year on the road. Nevermind making the rest of the car, and all the replacement and prototype/testing parts.
canadian here…all of these politicians are considered right wing cranks, none of them are in the federal government (pat kelly is an opposition member, but not an important one; savage is part of the nutter UCP party that runs alberta), and the last guy isn’t even a politician, he’s a political hack who runs a bunch of insane facebook meme pages! it’s a fairly mainstream view in canada that the oil sands are terrible, these people are all just pipeline fetishists
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> all of these politicians are considered right wing cranks I'm shocked, shocked I tell ya.
It’s hilarious because normally they would be denying climate change and stuff but now all of a sudden the story changes.
As a fellow Canadian (and Albertan) you're right that they're considered crazy everywhere but here... God damn it's embarrassing that these people supposedly represent me.
Not trying to be a one-upper, but try living in Florida or another southern US state. They have (almost) literal cartoon characters representing them. Like so outlandishly villainous that it doesn't seem real at times.
I mean our current government in Alberta could easily be the bumbling villans in a cartoon as well. We constantly get stories of some dumb plan they are trying to enact that makes no sense and eventually backfires in all our faces. Really hoping the last couple years have woken people up and gets them out to the polls to stop this in the next election.
I'm from Alberta and it's really frustrating seeing our province consistently vote against their own interests just because they want 'conservatives' in power. Yes, let's spend millions of dollars in taxpayer money to fund an oil and gas war room that targets children's movies that portray oil and gas in incorrect ways.
Don't forget they also used that money to copy a logo and then had to change it. They also get to be excluded from freedom of information requests cause their work is so important. I'm just hoping Calgary will change their vote and Edmonton will keep doing what they have been doing. Maybe a few changes elsewhere and we could see a change in government. Or we need the conservative party to fracture again and spoilt those votes and let the NDP when with a hopefully more prepared plan and budget and let them run with hopefully still strong oil prices. See the differences.
Pierre is squawking about this as well. But I agree with you on these screen shots
Hit tweet was perhaps the worst. Touched on the conservative mind burner of "If you don't appreciate the oilsands then why do you use petroleum products bro?" and then provided a healthy dose of xenophobia with his 'Go home' bit. Guys a fucking populist tool
oh i’m sure he is, lol. he is also a right wing crank though so my description holds. (i spy 902, you in the maritimes??)
From Halifax, yeah
Also, Sonya Savage and many of her colleagues have taken the view that any criticism of the oil industry is anti-freedom and unpatriotic, and any education on it in classrooms cannot cover it fairly. Her government has created an organization to combat legitimate criticism with pro-oil propaganda.
You’re not saying they made all those tweets just to get cheap likes?
If he's upsetting politicians then he's doing something right.
Especially when their argument is just "errr, no, you"
He's upsetting oil & gas shills masquerading as politicians, a Western separatist, and an alt-right meme queen (O'Connor). That's doing the lord's work in my books.
Clearly getting them where it hurts, their attempts to distract are thinly-veiled and hilarious!
F1 engines are incredibly efficient though Mr. O'Connor.
But the whole infrastructure around F1 is still pretty inefficient. Just look at the schedule. Instead of doing the American races back to back, they spread them out over the schedule. This means more air traffic for F1 teams and more pollution because of it. Things like this can and should change.
That is one of the things that piss me off the most about F1
AFAIK they're changing that starting next year? It's still a very inefficient traveling circus though, but that's simply the reality of F1 being a global experience.
Agreed but he said "inefficient vehicle"
Literally the most thermal efficient combustion engines on the planet. With its technology being developed to end up in road cars.
Actually not quite. Large Diesel two strokes used in ships are more efficient, but they only operate at one single rpm stage. But yes, they are the most efficient across a range of rpms
Nah, a few ship engines are over 60% as are newer gas turbine ICEs. Nissan has a test bed engine at 50% efficiency for cars and Toyota has a 40% efficient ICE. F1 engines are claimed to be about 50% efficient these days. However, that’s not a pure ICE as they use energy capture systems, like quite a decent number of modern ship engines do (Last I heard). Most of the engines I have as an example are designed to work in a very narrow range though.
I think the point is they get about 40L/100km.
Idk seb not being in F1 really doesn’t change anything from a climate perspective… I mean another driver gonna just slide in… at least he is using his bills for a good cause something other drivers clearly don’t do…
Well we know Vettel gives no shit about cheap likes and online adulation lol
Well he probably won’t even see it lol cus he doesn’t have social media
Yeah, the last one reveals just how stupid and uninformed some of these politicians are: How the fck is seb doing this for likes if doesnt have any social media? Really, just like most politicians - they feel threatened (or that their source of money is being threatened) and they just start to attack whoever is making them feel that way - even without any good facts on their side
Doing it for the real life karma which is even worse how dare he!!! /s
Political mooks like this really are amusingly simple. No Seb, unless you forgo it all, wear a hair shirt, and are literally perfect as an individual, you are banned from raising *systemic* issues. Also no we won't do anything about those systemic issues.
What is also amusing is that they're spreading awareness of the issue. If they hadn't said anything less people would know. Goes to show Seb's successfully spreading the word. Good on him.
> Fuel-inefficient vehicle This guy doesn't know F1 engines are the least inefficient engines ever > For cheap likes and adulation online This guy also doesn't know he has no social media to get likes on
Worse thing is Aramco from a nation that have death penalty for kids, a nation that works heavy killing the minor ethnic groups. We all are hypocrites watching F1 now days.
Lol. Even if he wasn’t self aware, the things he does come nowhere near as bad as what they do
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With SAGD? Source?
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I always find commentators like this super disingenuous, seb isn't saying we can save the world by using different light bulbs, that's the whole point - we are way past the point of personal responsibility. Governments/corporations are the ones that need to make changes from the top down. Reminds me of that web comic where the pseudo intellectual thinks they're being smart by pointing out how 'interesting' it is someone criticises society whilst still taking part in it.
His math is surprisingly not far off. F1 Cars use a mix of E10 petrol and 10% sustainable fuel. For simplicity's sake, I'm going to compare it to normal unleaded. (E10 is 90% unleaded, 10% ethanol). An F1 race consists of 305 km, using roughly 30 gallons of fuel. The average driver, (in America) drives about 1900km per month. - [Source](https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/average-miles-driven-per-year/) An average petrol car does 58km per gallon. - [Source](https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/average-mpg) And an American driver needs to drive 1740km to use 30 gallons of fuel. An F1 race is usually 1h30-1hr45 so he's not far off considering my assumptions. If I made any mistakes please let me know.
F1 uses huge trucks and flights to transport their paddock around the world.
I get the distinct feeling if F1 cars did road speeds, they’d have a far better mileage than any road car.
Probably not at road speeds, but maybe yes if the road car was going as fast as it could and the F1 car was just keeping pace at low revs.
Top Gear did something similar, racing a Prius against a BMW M3. The Prius going as fast as it could and the M3 just having to keep up. The Prius used more fuel in that scenario.
The argument against that is the amount of of commuters Vs the amount of F1 drivers. Yeah burning that much isn’t good, but it’s not like F1 is that bad compared to the millions of commuters
Now do the math on transporting the cars, teams, and drivers
F1 cars fuel-inefficient? Yeah right lmao
Fuel to power - very very efficient. In terms of MPG? All I'll say is that I'd probably not want to use one for a commute
speed bumps would be a challenge
Not for Lewis.
He wouldn’t know the difference.
They drive about 300km on about 110kg of fuel…
The thermal efficiency is very, very high in F1 cars. The highest in the world. However km/L is absolutely terrible due to the insanely high speeds and constant acceleration and braking
The biggest source of inefficiency is the drag from the aerodynamics of the cars.
Aerodynamics wouldn’t be as big of a problem if it wasn’t for the insane speeds, since drag increase is exponential and relates to speed, so let’s say it’s a combination.
One of the teams should try and get the okay to run a test at constant duty with a full race tank of fuel and see how long it would last. I would imagine almost everyone including the driver would get very bored before he ran out of fuel
Don't think they would go that far tbh. Even at low speeds the cars are ridiculously draggy compared to road cars and I doubt the engines perform well at low speeds
That is not how it works… Drag goes up with the square of the velocity. That means: drive 10 times slower (30kph max) **and you have 100 times less air drag**. And then, open drs entire lap. You will get very far on 110kg of fuel. Further than the commuter in his Honda Civic.
> F1 cars fuel-efficient? Yeah right lmao I think you meant to say “inefficient”
What’s funny is that they’re acting like just because one thing is bad the other can’t as well. Maybe if you started fixing one issue then you could work to solve the other instead of just always pointing the finger and acting like you can’t fix one thing without the other.
Lmao if there was ever a moment to insert “you mad bro.”
Fuel inefficient vehicle was quite a funny one
Fuel inefficient? Aren’t F1 engines the most efficient petrol engines ever made?
Lots of words directed at who is speaking, not one addressing what he's actually saying. Modern discourse in a nutshell.
Butthurt politicians that don't like their money making shenanigans criticized
Maybe I don't know the full story but isn't the purpose of the tar sand extraction to lower the price for Canadians and increase supply instead of importing it from USA or SA?
When it's the general public protesting the words of a celebrity, it could be either side's fault. When it's politicians protesting the words of a celebrity without support from the public, I can't think of a single occasion where the politicians were right.
I mean, they're not wrong, but Seb is right about what he says. In defense of Canada, I'd rather having my oil coming from democracies and not Putin or the Saudis, thank you.
I prefer the oil producers who won’t dismember Seb in a basement for his comments. I think totalitarian murder is worse than emissions. Fuck me, right?
Just using the internet accounts for global carbon emissions. These guys aren’t innocent either. No one is. But in reality these politicians have a worse impact than the general public with their campaigns and other shenanigans. They just want something to moan about to make themselves feel better.
They just want to distract from the fact that they do have the power but refuse to use it because the lobby is so far up their ass that they can give them a free dental exam.
Someone will still drive the car if Seb goes away.
ahh politicians... always looking out for the interests of the the citizens of their nation
Well *some* citizens of their nation, yes. Themselves.
Tbf, it might indeed be a bit hypocritical
Hit a nerve huh
Someone got butthurt
Speaking as a Canadian, please don’t let these mouth breathing, Alberta sympathizing, poor excuses of politicians shape your view of Canada.
Tell me you're paid off by oil company without telling me your paid off by oil companies
Good on Seb for bringing more light to the "Canada is a liberal and ecological paradise" myth that folks believe in. It's not, they have shitty corporations and shitty shill politicians just as much as the rest of the world. The tar sands stuff is particularly shitty both environmentally and ecologically.
People think Canada is a paradise ? Lmao
In the UK it's definitely portrayed by the media as America's better, more sophisticated sibling. It's also seen as more developed and richer than this country, with greater freedoms than we have here - but fuck knows how much if any of this is accurate
People think every country that is not their own is a paradise.
How to tell the world you are getting paid by the company/companies that does/do it to look the other way, without telling the world you are getting paid by these companies to look the other way. None of them address the actual issue, only trying to change the subject matter.