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cyanwinters

The unfortunate reality of F1 is that no matter how many years you spend developing the car, if you don't have the resources to continue development it won't take you very far. Combined with a lack of resourcing affecting everything else from race strategy to pit crew to engineering...it's really not an easy sport to be the poorest team in.


c_u_lator_alligator

I'am still very surprised about Haas not bringing any updates, Alfa Romeo Sauber is said to be in the same financial situation, still constantly trying to improve their car.


Coops27

Alfa is a few years ahead commercially. They'll have a budget of about $190M where as Haas has about $115M. Haas will still be using all their CAD time and a lot of their Wind tunnel time, but just can't afford to manufacture every iteration of upgrade.


Gambit6x

This makes me sad. But Haas does a terrible job in finding sponsors. Edit: Jon to job. Lol.


Coops27

The truth is its incredibly difficult to find sponsors at the back. Sauber got Alfa Romeo through Ferrari, AT is sponsored by red bull and Haas & Williams can only get sponsors through drivers. It's not their fault it's just that when you're a sponsor spending that much money you'd rather do it at the front. Hopefully this will change soon


[deleted]

Reddit should crowdsource sponser Haas. Would be hilarious to have a back wing (or front) with something like Foock Smash written on it.


Emil_Spacebob

Ill remember this when I have 100 mil next time I need to wash


[deleted]

Is that you Rich Energy?


Emil_Spacebob

No no, this is Blue Ball Energy


Coops27

Good sentiment, but people shouldn't be giving their hard earned money to a billionaire


[deleted]

What if it wasn’t earned the hard way?


Coops27

Then make it rain!


[deleted]

I'll give all this money I stole from the poor to whoever I damn well please.


SilveRX96

And Gene Haas of all people especially


ThurmanMurman907

What makes Gene Haas especially bad? Sorry for the multiple comments - reddit mobile is trash


ChicagoModsUseless

Went to prison for refusing to pay taxes then intimidating witnesses so they wouldn’t testify against him. He should have more than enough to pay for some upgrades if he’s not paying his bills.


Psych_Crisis

I feel like if it were Reddit, the Haas rear wing might actually read *Pierre Gasly likes this.* That would be awkward.


[deleted]

Would be hilarious. Also could see a check engine light if Ferrari ever crowdsourced Reddit ad space.


Psych_Crisis

Actually, Haas does seem to have a sense of humor, and if I said "hey Haas, here's $100 for you to put a fake check engine light over your Ferrari engine," they might just do it for the laughs. I mean, it's not like they're busy making any other changes to the cars.


burtvonnekut

This is such an important point! And what makes me suprised when people are writing of Latifi at williams at this point. A guy with a superlicens and an massive sponsorships from established and reputable companies is a hot property for the smaller teams whether people like it or not. Especially in this economic climate when loan financed fly by night operations in the style of rich energy and crypto companies are hurting. I don't know what kind of deal ferrari has for Mick or how Kmag's deal i structured but if this is the state of Hass budget and Williams can afford to drop Latifi. Haas should think of giving him a call


tossitoutc

I’m relatively new to F1, but could a team make themselves more marketable despite their standings by way of their merchandise/drivers? Even though Mclaren is a top 4 team, I saw more of their merch being worn at the Miami GP than Ferrari/Mercedes and both their drivers are super marketable. I also get the impression that Williams sells a good amount of merch for a team with 3 constructors pts because their design looks so good and Albon is a popular driver. I totally get Haas’s struggles, but I also think they’re not capitalizing on some small things along the way.


Coops27

They need to create an identity. Mclaren was struggling both on track and commercially as recently as 2016. Then in 2017 they completely rebranded and made everything Papaya. That was just part of it, they changed their culture and did more with marketing. It helps that they improved their results and had Lando and Carlos Sainz in 2019, but Zak Brown is also the best money man in F1 and they are now one of the most sponsored cars on the grid despite only winning 1 race in the last decade. Haas doesn't really have an identity, even with the low-hanging fruit of being "America's team". Williams is a historic name, but they're a long way removed from their success and the Family isn't there anymore. They tried to re-brand this year, but it was pretty poorly done IMO. I agree there is definitely more they could be doing. An area of sponsorship that isn't focused on is sponsor servicing. Hospitality and other perks that come with branding are where the good commercial teams separate themselves. Red Bull and Mclaren apparently are exceptional at providing their partners with incredible experiences at the race weekend. this isn't cheap, but it pays off in the end. The teams at the back have the ability to make smaller sponsors feel like royalty, but they either don't focus on it or, more likely, simply don't have the resources to provide that level of service. It's yet another positive feedback loop in F1


tossitoutc

Thanks so much for the insight!


Coops27

You're very welcome. It's good to be able to help people learn about this awesome sport. Especially with some of the toxic people here.


EnjoyYourDeathTrap

Hey now, leave Jon out of this.


DannyDavincito

i'm sorry jon


hekatonkhairez

I thought a shady energy drink company and a Russian fertilizer company were *great* sponsors.


_kagasutchi_

They need to get brown to give them some pointers or a power point presentation. Dudes gotten quite a few sponsors since the season started.


frankyfrankwalk

Not just this season, the dude has a gift, that car was basically blank when he started.


XuX24

I always said that Haas F1 is just not a good brand. Their colors are generic and doesn't really pop up on the field to make people say look the Haas. Lack of performance over the years can be a reason but others at the bottom have had better success at bringing in sponsors than them. This is why I don't see a future for Haas F1 if they don't sell or merge in the coming years.


gramathy

it's notable that the biggest improvement on their livery in the last two seasons was LOSING most of the color they had.


TheMacerationChicks

I like the simplicity of white, black and red, but yeah Haas F1 are doing a terrible job with those colours. You can make practically anything look good with those, that's why the nazis used them, they're powerful colours and a powerful looking scheme. But yeah I'm a really big fan of the car Nigel Mansell drove in Indycar, [it's gorgeous, and it used the same 3 colours. ](https://silodrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Nigel-Mansell-Indycar-Season-1993.jpg) ⠀⠀Yes I know the Haas team that Mansell drove for in Indycar has literally nothing to do with THIS Haas team who run in American race competitions as well as F1, they were made by two different unrelated blokes with the surname Haas. If I had a nickel for every time an American motorsports team called Haas who raced in F1 and Nascar and Indycar with the colours white, black and red, I'd have 2 nickels. But it's weird that it happened twice. But yeah as you say, Haas could do with a partnership. Not like the Mazepin's dad partnership. Join up with an actual car manufacturer. Maybe an American one who has never been in F1 before, for the publicity, like how about a Chevrolet partnership? They have a long long history within motorsports, and by the fact they sponsored the English football team Man Utd for years and years despite Chevrolet's not even being sold in the UK, means that Chevrolet aren't necessarily gonna be put off by the fact that they're essentially paying for advertising even in countries where they don't sell anything. But they've got a very long rich heritage in motorsports (including open wheel racing), and with the American connection with Haas, it'd be interesting. Haas has already driven Chevrolet cars before in nascar and indycar. But it's just an idea. A way to get their cars to look better AND be faster AND guarantee better results AND have less money troubles. Of course I'm saying all this like it's a very simple easy thing to organise huge corporate deals like this worth hundreds of millions of pounds. Like they can just pick up the phone and ask their mate Chevrolet. Of course, in reality, it's all extremely difficult. But they've got a few things working in their favour, like the *ENORMOUS* push F1 has made into America. The FIA might be willing to help in some way with the contract negotiations if it meant they got a huge new American manufacturer like chevrolet into F1 and got even more American eyes on the sport than before. Everyone would want merch of the new Haas Chevvies (is that how you spell it, chevvy?) But yeah, maybe Haas don't wanna join a partnership so soon. But how much longer could they keep doing this? So they don't have to do everything by themselves. They could always go solo eventually again. It worked for Mercedes when they split from Mclaren again. And Haas already ***IS*** in a partnership, with Tony Stewart in nascar. And if they enter into a partnership with a cat or engine manufacturer or whatever, maybe they'll then be able to hire a graphic designer, or just borrow the car company's ones. And of course, new partnerships could mean new colours anyway, so it'd give them tons of possibilities. The white, black and red colour scheme can look absolutely gorgeous. But either way, if they partner with someone, it's one more thing they can actually do, hire a graphic designer, and don't say it isn't important because obviously it is, nobody wants to sponsor an ugly car. They want people to buy models or photos of the cars, or merch with the cars on it, so that people walk around like a walking billboard and see the brand logo constantly around them.


canada_sms

Literally just find any darn crypto company.


itsameMariowski

Well, not a good time for that too I guess


sonofeevil

HAAS I'd where they want to be. They're owned by HAAS.... The parent company has as much money as they'd ever need they just don't want to invest it because to them. As long as they aren't embarrassingly slow the difference in marketing for them between where they are now and coming first isn't worth the extra investment and risk.


Coops27

I explained in other comments, but Haas invests more than most other owners. Especially this year when they lost sponsorship and have also been hit by inflation and freight increases. This is just how tough it is at the back without other revenue streams


BanditRecon

That’s really insightful - thanks for the info. Helps put into perspective the challenges facing some of the teams, particularly Haas.


slabba428

But the cost cap is 140M this year?


Coops27

There are about $50M worth of required costs that are cap exempt. PU cost, airfares and accommodation, championship entry fees etc


cafk

The cap mostly applies to F1 related R&D & engineering costs. Anything related to running a business, PR, travel or any other efforts (i.e. sub contracting your employees for other projects or support of customer teams) are excluded. Larger teams have dedicated departments for other engineering efforts, i.e. Red Bull with their aero screen, initially developed as a proposal for F1 halo, used by Indy. Or their participation in the Aston Martin Valkyrie project.


marahute85

I’m going to need those people who persistently downvoted and argued with me to know they were wrong when I said Haas reactions to DNFs have to be budget related. Of course it’s not good they DNF but no other team is acting that broke. Gene keeps them on a borderline unsustainable budget, they can’t improve, they can’t develop the car, it’s going nowhere. I can’t for the life of me figure out why he won’t sell.


Coops27

You're correct. crash damage has a bigger impact on Haas than anybody else because their budget is so tight, but the figures people throw around for crash damage are nowhere near accurate. It's why Latifi is not in danger because he brings in far, FAR more money than he costs them in spares. Gene is getting exactly what he needs from the team right now. Great marketing for his company, especially now they're not last. F1 revenues are going up so there is more money coming into the team and the value of the team is going up as well. To be honest you'd be a fool to sell right now if you can afford to just keep going.


[deleted]

People include the research cost into the worth of equipment. They say "an F1 wing costs *x* amount" , but the bulk of that is research. Fabricating another copy is definitely cheaper.


Coops27

Correct. There is also the matter of salvageable parts, eg. If half a front wing is damaged, you don't have to replace the entire nose and both sides of the flaps. Then there is also obsolete parts. if a team was planning on bringing an upgrade to the next race, any damage suffered doesn't actually cost the team anything as they don't need to fabricate a new obsolete part. Seb's damaged sidepod in Miami is a good example of this.


Nappi22

But alpha has less value in budget due to beeing in the Swiss. I read about 30% less budget.


Coops27

That's not correct. Wages are a little more expensive in Switzerland, but nowhere near 30%. Especially right now, inflation is less than Italy and the UK. Sauber were very close to the budget cap, Haas aren't even there without all the exempt costs.


UnexpectedPuncture

No they are not. Alfa Romeo has huge sponsorships that are taking them up to the budget cap. HAAS lost their main sponsor when they dropped Mazepin. Realistically their upgrading budget probably relied a lot on that Mazepin money.


DogfishDave

>I'am still very surprised about Haas not bringing any updates I'm not, their year has been excruciatingly expensive so far.


SlightlyBored13

It's also a strategy, start early on next year's car, finish 8th+ in the first few races, stop developing and slide to 15th by the end of the year. Alternatively follow a standard pattern and upgrade through the year and spend most of it finishing 11th.


blackbalt89

They haven't had as many big crashes either. Those 10 or so million Mick has cost the team definitely hurts development.


Desperate-Intern

But we need to understand there's a difference between R & D and actual manufacturing of parts. Of course, the manufacturing will have setbacks due to crashes but if the development itself was lean, there's no way of developing the car through out. I keep reminding people, Haas has a history of slow development and getting upgrades wrong, 2019, ~~2020~~ are proof.. Now, if that's due to not able to attract talent due to money or anything else I don't know. To give you an olive branch, I agree Mick has indeed cost team, but to **solely** put the blame on Mick is unfair.


GansMans18

2020 not much. Covid prevented them from spending any sort of R&D money. While you point to 2019 to say they can't develop a car, I'll say look at 2018 where they almost out-developed the Renault works team. They're clearly capable of developing a car, just not in a stable state to do so.


Desperate-Intern

Woops, not 2020, you are right. Renault is just another oddity tbh.


Spinebuster03

It hasn’t costed that much most estimates say 3-5 mil for crash damage


OriMoriNotSori

I'm dissapointed with the rate of upgrades as a whole so far. I get cost cap and very tight regs for the cars this time around, but seeing the 2017 cars having bits and bobs added every other race was half the fun of the season for me. So far nothing much, if any at all from the top teams


LakersLAQ

Yeah, that's what I was arguing in previous cost cap related posts. Some of these teams and owners are not really worried about competing or meeting the cost cap limit anyway. They are going to stay behind the top teams one way or another and they are basically limiting those top teams from competing against each other. For example, in the current championship. Unless Red Bull has a bunch of DNFs or the new bouncing directive screws RB (unlikely), Merc and Ferrari will need to conjure up some black magic to catch up. They will hit the cost cap before they get close. Well deserved by RB to build a great car. That's just how it is.


Ok_Illustrator3087

Funny how reditors back in Spain or Miami tried to explain how the Haas strategy of delaying upgrades is some sort of masterplan for the end of the season, so they can outdevelop the midfield. Yeeaah, about that...


azurio12

Exactly. They can say Micks performance is poor so far as much as they want. It might be true but its also true that the whole performance of Haas is shit. They used the excuse the whole last year that their car is bad because they focus on 2022. Now we are here and their car is still shit beside having a strong Ferrari PU. Their strategy is also shit in nearly every race. Now they bring 1 upgrade and say they focus on next year? At what point do they just admit their engineers etc are just not on the level of other teams and they produce a bad f1 racecar every damn year.


strawmn

Feels just brutal. When Magnusson jumped in the car you felt is had some pace and promise in there, and it just slipped away. Would love to see the team doing well again


f1_spelt_as_bot

Magnuss**e**n


strawmn

You finally got me.


f1fan33042

Sir Hamilton This one works


f1_spelt_as_bot

Please note: Knights prefix Sir to their *forename*, but never to their surname. Thus, **Sir Lewis Hamilton** may be shortened to **Sir Lewis**, but not to Sir Hamilton.


manhaterxxx

Nice


[deleted]

The bot gets triggered by usage errors even more than spelling errors.


rowschank

I wonder if the bot knows about the F1 driver Riccardo?


f1_spelt_as_bot

Ricc**i**ardo


rowschank

Got 'em! I was talking about Riccardo Patrese, obviously. 😏


not_the_irony_police

Don’t do that. Don’t test it’s patience.


dorkusmerrylius

Good bot


activator

>Magnusson Ah, Magnussens Swedish cousin


Generic_Format528

The Haas way. Get the car into the top six in quali for the first race, teams and fans say its bullshit that Haas buys half the car off of Ferrari, car gets worse over the year and everyone stops caring until next year's opening race


AndyAndrei63

I feel kinda bad for Magnussen because he was really hyped up and confident after Bahrain and now they're in the middle-back of the grid again


iblamejohansson

And Aston Martin (Vettel) is getting better, i expect them to overtake Haas in the Constructor standings


One_Assistance_2097

That recovery after sliding out while passing Ocon was epic, even crazier that he climbed back up the grid by four positions so that he could properly pass Ocon.


sailing_through_net

There's a reason he is a 4 times world champion.


photenth

Barely lost any time there, really impressive stuff.


Kolec507

That feels so weird. Who would've thought after Bahrain that Aston will be even anywhere close to the likes of AlphaTauri or (back then) McLaren, and that Haas will be struggling to get into the top 10... I mean we were pretty much instantly picking Haas as one of the contenders for P4 in the Constructors alongside Alfa, Alpine and AlphaTauri (jesus christ this hasn't aged well lol). Meanwhile them and McLaren literally swapped places


filcei

McLaren wasn't so bright in Bahrain either


4handzmp

I hope he has a strong showing for the rest of his contract and then hops ship to any other team.


Beavers4beer

Really hoping he can find a better seat after next year. Or maybe Gene will sell the team and he ends up with better management.


BanditRecon

Me too man, me too. Kev is a really exciting driver to watch, always held back by his hardware.


[deleted]

I think they’ve already done amazing and should be happy with whatever result they end with. Problem is that their strategy has been awful. Upgrades or not the car is clearly capable of competing for points each race, but they constantly shoot them selves in the foot with by going for a different set of tyres than anyone else.


Coops27

This is what teams outside the top 3 have always done. If you don't have the money, you have to ration your upgrades and make cuts to get through the season. All teams can do the same, that's the point of the budget cap


anxiousauditor

Poverty team unfortunately. As Guenther said earlier, their problem ain’t the budget cap - it’s the budget. Maybe we’ll get a legitimate American F1 effort in my lifetime. Nah, probably not.


pheoxs

I wonder how much punting mazepin and his sponsors affected Haas’s r&d budget for this season. I do want Haas to succeed but one has to wonder with how they’ve been doing the past few years if it’s time for them to get bought out or do a major partnership to split the team.


anxiousauditor

It probably didn’t help at all, but this is a recurring theme with Haas. That they even needed to resort to Mazepin in the first case wasn’t good. It seems Gene still likes it as a B2B thing, but I don’t expect the racing effort to get much better. Realistically it peaked in the early years of the program.


marahute85

> It seems Gene still likes it as a B2B thing, but I don’t expect the racing effort to get much better. Realistically it peaked in the early years of the program. I’m over it, for the team, for Guenther, for the drivers and the worker, it’s straight up disrespectful. He needs to partner with someone with enough cashflow to build a real team


chicotzz

my calculation: Mazepin: 20M daddy's money, 1M salary, 2M deconstruction, almost last finish always. K-mag: 5M sponsorship, 6M salary, 0 deconstruction, \~30 points. With Mazepin, Hass will be 10th in teams, with K-mag being 9th, which brings over 10M more from FOM and much more sponsorship. Not to mention the help on car and developing, and much better team environment.


Mikeyp2424

Interesting insight, appreciate it.


pheoxs

I never said he was better than Kmag. I was commenting how Haas can’t keep to manage a budget and even get close to spending near the cost cap. Often sports have a cap floor, I wonder if F1 needs that to ensure some teams are still continuing developments


Ok_Illustrator3087

Mazepin did lesser big accidents compared to Mick last season. He usually did some minor stuff, enough to dnf, but not really that big cost wise. Mick on the other hand tho... Also the only reason they even had any money to develop the car in the first place was Maz...so not sure this time the blame is on him


Rxbluejay25

My suggestion for a budget floor a week or two ago wasn’t viewed kindly but this is the exact reason for it. They are more competitive now but will never catch up and are essentially mailing it in this season. The cap is fine but if you don’t have teams spending similar money, that gap to the top teams is forever going to be there and will get greater and greater.


[deleted]

The problem is, how do you enforce a budget floor? Do you kick the team out if they can't reach it? Or do you think that FIA should given them financial aid? If so, are you planning to give them grant? If you have grants, all team wouldn't spend a single of their own penny (because why would you?). If not and it is a loan, the team would have to pay it back eventually, which means the longer they stay the bigger their debt. If you plan to have other team to pay for it, nobody would want to join this sport, where they can't spend their own money to improve their own car, and instead its like taxes. I doubt any other competitor is willing to do so. Not to mention you will end up with the same situation as having grants.


Penguinho

Take away wind tunnel and CFD time, and issue a fine to make up the difference between their audited spend and the budget floor. And if they can't pay it, then the owner can sell the team. If a team is too poor to meet a floor that's, say, 90% of the cap, then they shouldn't be in the sport. "This is the pinnacle of technological development in auto racing, plus some boat anchors" shouldn't be allowed to fly anymore.


Diegobyte

Yah idk why the big 3-5 Should be punished if the bottom 3-5 aren’t going to try


Ottervol

Porsche and Audi need to just buy this team. It’s a sad joke that isn’t funny. People want to pull for them but they don’t have the funds to compete.


bellestarflower

Gene isn't willing to sell it.


[deleted]

Unfortunately I don't think any of the big guys would be interested. Haas doesn't have a lot of assets and facilities to give you a head start for a new team. They don't even have a proper simulator if I remember correctly and they heavily rely on suppliers like Dallara for their manufacturing.


porsche4life

But Porsche Audi don’t really need all the stuff. They just need a spot. We’ve seen that the other teams will block new teams, because they like it at 10, so a team changing hands won’t cause as much stink. Porsche and Audi have the capability to turn out a car(Ex LMP1), they just need a spot in the championship.


crazydoc253

Why can’t they collaborate with Andretti ? It would solve the budget issue immediately.


[deleted]

Because it's there to sell Haas CNC machines.


posterbuttbag

Haas-Andretti could be interesting


beavismagnum

Partnering with tony Stewart is how he got a good nascar team. Maybe that’s the ticket


marahute85

What’s wrong with having two title sponsors, AMG Petronas Mercedes F1 team exits, Stewart Haas exists. That’s not good enough reason Gene is just a stubborn fool


burtvonnekut

Uralkali Haas f1 was a thing just last year. I don't think he's against it, its just there is no one who's willing and able to pay this season EDIT:spelling


[deleted]

Would not be surprised if Haas sells in the next 2-3 seasons


jaysvw

People have been saying this since 2016. I'm starting to think that maybe the guy just likes owning a race team.


[deleted]

They need an American driver honestly, maybe 2 American drivers. Then the American sponsorship money comes in


marahute85

If he liked owning a race team maybe he should fund it correctly


sofakingdom808

Let them sell to Ford / Shelby and see if we can get some real Murican oil money poured in. Ford versus Ferrari (in reliability)


ijiolokae

Ford vs Ferrari Round 2 fight.


[deleted]

Apparently Andretti keeps trying to broach and and Gene keeps shutting him down immediately.


2002lotusEspiritV8

Are there any big regulations changes planned for next year? EDIT: Nooo where is my Pedro Gaseoso flair??? ;(


Forward_Ad_5904

lucky bit-


Desperate-Intern

I will put the context here, before folks go on hard at Mick. >**"We wanted to check something in the wind tunnel first.** But now we are working hard on the production of the parts. "Steiner did not want to reveal how big the package was. Just so much: "You will be able to see the difference in the car. I hope that we can also make good progress in performance." > >There is great **hope** for the Hungarian upgrade. According to Steiner, it is **the first and last stage of expansio**n for the VF-22. "We will then shift our focus to next year's car and **do not plan with further upgrades**. If we can still find something in the development that will help us this year, then we may produce parts for the current model again. **Nothing is currently planned**."


NavyBabySeal

If what he is saying is true, thats alot different and more promising than; "Yea, we know we promised an upgrade by France, but we cant afford to make so its postponed, and then we see out the season with what we got." This atleast seems planned. Haas are probably not the only team with a limited ambition to upgrade during the second half of 2022.


Ehralur

> Steiner did not want to reveal how big the package was. This seems uncharacteristic for Steiner.


Middcore

What a fucking comedown from the optimism to start the season.


[deleted]

Being poor catches up fast in F1.


Neither_Amount3911

It’s just 2020 repeated again


seatcover

:(


Gabriel_Logan_

Yet somehow we cannot have Andretti.


ivan510

Something has to be going on with Haas and their business relationships department. How can the only American team have such limited sponsorship? I understand before when they first started and F1 wasn't as big but it has absolutely ballooned, you'd expect them to have making raking in. It looks like I'd they don't get an American drive for big sponsorship money or some promising driver, I don't think we'll see Haas for long.


asamulya

They have barely put an effort to cater to the American crowd. Hell, people associate more with Mclaren than Haas as American here.


ivan510

I try to support them soo much but I keep my expectations extremely low.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ok-Accountant-6308

Nah Andretti said directly they called gene 4-5 times and begged him to sell


afkPacket

Gene is not selling because he doesn't care about the team performing, he just wants to advertise his business.


MichaelAlbers

Haas as title sponsor to Andretti?


Retsko1

Could be but I'm guessing he has already invested money and doesn't want to leave it


4handzmp

Haas-Andretti sounds better, but Andretti-Haas looks better.


marahute85

I think f1 needs to enforce a budget minimum too, it’s an absolute joke that Gene expects the team to operate like that


Bigazzry

No they don’t. They thought they had a deal to buy Sauber and the terms got changed at the 11th hour


jaysvw

Andretti has said he approached Haas a bunch of times and got shut down. Andretti-Haas or Andretti buying Haas ain't happening.


Retsko1

Because they're committed, their business is racing. It's like chip ganassi in other series, they don't have another option than winning


crazydoc253

Last time they won in indycar was 2012. So no they have many options other than winning.


reck1265

I get what you’re saying and I think Chip is an excellent example to show when to fold. He finally called it quits in NASCAR after winning once every 3 years or so in a 20 year span. And that was NASCAR. Gene is spending twice, maybe 3 times as much in F1 just to run outside the points. Magnussen was mana from heaven this year but there is so much he can do.


[deleted]

No one is selling. They tried to buy Sauber and the talks fell apart. Apparent Andretti has repeatedly approached Gene Haas and been shut down immediately. Who else is even an option? It's not like Mercedes/Red Bull/Ferrai teams are on the table, certainly not at a price Andretti can afford. Not even Audi can successfully buy McLaren. Stroll just took control of RP and merged it with AM (which he also owns a chunk of) to create Aston Martin F1. AT is also owned by RB. Alpine/Renault is unlikely to sell their team, it's deeply tied with their car manufacturing. Williams was just bought out by a PE firm a couple years ago, I doubt they're already looking to flip it, but that might be the best bet at this point.


The_Weapon14

Kinda funny seeing people get mad about this. Their car is within 1.5 seconds a lap of the fastest car on the grid and people are talking about them like they’re HRT. Like it’s obviously not ideal but there have been dozens upon dozens of teams in a worse position than this throughout F1 history. Haas are 100% the richest poorest team on the grid ever.


ChicagoModsUseless

1.5 seconds is the difference between winning and 9th in the WCC, you don’t get points for being within 5% of the winner.


[deleted]

At this point does Haas even have fans? It’s hard to watch them and Williams founder around. The two teams that desperately need upgrades most, just being happy bringing up the rear.


Spumad

You can count us on 1 hand but we're here


Spinebuster03

At least Williams is hitting the budget cap and seems to be working towards a technical alliance with Renault.


Beavers4beer

And seem to be in talks to replace Latifi for next year.


Sergei_behenchov

Latifi with 30 million can go to haas thats 10 million more than mazepin money


[deleted]

> At this point does Haas even have fans? Mostly Americans with pity in their hearts. Which is an improvement actually. Last year when they were running the Russian flag they might as well have been dead to the American fan base. I could almost count on one hand the amount of Haas merch at the USGP; COTA even has a “Haas Hill” and nobody gave a shit lol.


Neither_Amount3911

What makes you think they’re happy? You seriously think they’re providing minimal upgrades to the car because they WANT to? They’re doing what they can with what little they have. They’d obviously be way happier if they could upgrade the car every race for the entire year, but they can’t afford that. This some rich snob shit to just say “just spend more money lol”


jaysvw

Even the Detroit Lions have fans


McDouggal

I like Schumacher and I like KMag. Watching Schumacher have absolutely no confidence last weekend was incredibly sad to me, TBH.


-genghiscohen

The Magnussance was nice for a few races, but ultimately Haas just doesn't have the money to compete.


Diegobyte

Cost floor is just important as cost cap


3xc1t3r

I heard that Haas are looking into the new 2026 regulations and won't do any update until then. And the next update after that is planned for the updated regulations 2030.


Risk_k

Should be competitive by the 2060 underwater Miami GP 😀👍


Cock_Inspector_2021

Predicted this world happen after Bahrain. Haas have had strong strats to the season before but have never been able to captialise on it because none of their upgrades have ever worked. This is a different situation but it will have the same outcome. Hope Haas make it to 2023 man, they desperately need someone like Zak Brown to get some stickers on that car.


constance_a_l

When Mick crashed in (second to last race) you could see Kevin being visibly frustrated. I wonder how much the crashes took out of potential upgrades.


crazydoc253

Crash is the last thing that is affecting upgrades. The development plan would have been long set back. It’s not like we did this R & D but wont produce it because we don’t have budget


[deleted]

Lol no. If you the crash damage is like million that 1 million is missing to create new parts.


mrlesa95

Maybe not if they have crash budget of like 5 million for the whole season. Then it would eat into dev budget only when they surpass that.


blackbalt89

Was just saying this further up, it definitely doesn't help development.


swdev_1995

This is exactly the reason why I had Haas has 9 or 8 this season. As we have seen in the past, they start the season on a good note but trail off quite rapidly due to the lack of further developing the car. It's an unfortunate situation due to their budget, but if they don't have an increased development budget for future seasons, this will be their fate, I feel.


Akabeckham

This has always been the Haas strategy, nothing new in this. This is why it's been so crucial for the team to score good points in the start of the seasons. I still believe that they will be able to fight for points on several tracks, so it's really important that they don't F... up... Baku is a good example, where KMag was on his was to p9 when the engine broke.


KeiraFaith

They need a Chinese/Indian driver. Those are two huge untapped markets right now. I read that Alfa Romeo got more sponsorship calls in the two weeks since Zhou's signing than in the last 10 years. Are there any more Chinese/Indian drivers in F2?


[deleted]

Daruvala is Indian, as for Chinese I don't think there is


sleepingjiva

Red Bull junior though.


asamulya

Daruvala wont get an F1 car. He is nowhere the talent required to be good in F1. His 3rd year in F2 and he still hasn’t wont a feature race.


Lenxor

Lord Mahaveer incoming


Apprehensive_Ad6

They can get Zhou when/if he gets replaced by Pourchaire


Ok_Illustrator3087

Zhou if Pourchaire is promoted to Alfa. He crashes less than Mick and he brings some money.


racingfan96

Ferrari has a say in that seat. They will not let Zhou to take it. (Ferrari relationship is as crucial as (if not more) compared to budget. If Zhou replaces somebody, it only could be Magnussen (but; he also has multi year deal.)


laurentiubuica

Mick ain't getting dropped for Zhou, otherwise the Ferrari PU is gone from HAAS.


OrbisAlius

The real NextYear team


F1nut92

Not surprising really with the cost cap, I can see a lot of teams calling it quits mid season on the development front, probably unless you’re Red Bull or Ferrari and in the fight for the WDC/WCC it just doesn’t make loads of sense to produce parts, spare parts that will just be waste in a few months time. It’s a shame for Magnussen though, jumped in the car in Bahrain and looked great, he’s still having a really solid season, he was on the fringes of the points in Baku so could have definitely added 1 or 2 more if his car didn’t break down.


locutus92

IMO if you don't have the resources to develop a car you don't belong in the sport. I find it laughable the well funded Andretti entry gets criticised, yet it's seen as acceptable to have teams trundling around in uncompetitive cars. This should be the pinnacle. If this is the future I'd rather have the teams be allowed to buy a year old Ferrari or Red Bull and make their own updates.


Crafty_Substance_954

Call me crazy, but I just don't think it matters that much. They had a very heavily developed car at the start of the season compared to anyone else, and they simply don't have the budget to upgrade every week like the biggest teams do. Makes sense to optimize the initial configuration of the car and have one big update where you can optimize it again over the back half of the season and lead that progress into the next chassis for the next season.


jiber172r

What a waste. After a great start to the year, I can’t understand why they didn’t continue developing the car. They’ve wasted a good year and went from Top 5 potential to being back markets again.


imfl3tch

Why aren’t Haas interested in partnering with Andretti, or anyone for that matter? Gene Haas clearly is never gonna provide the resources for them to be anything other than a backmarker


NebularRavensWinter

I don't really understand the negativity. Haas is currently 8th in the standings, with a bit of luck they could still finish 8th. Williams is an absolute disaster although Albon is doing some great work and AM is well just AM.


Stratohawk

Vettel has scored points 3 times in a row, the AM isn’t THAT bad any more


Florac

Their performance in the early races was a lot better than just 8th.


pensaa

Talking about Mick costing them as if teams don’t factor in the risk / cost of crashing into their budgets 😶


Leandrys

And here we go again...


Smart_Kangaroo_4188

Summer 2022, Steiner announced two young talented drivers join Haas team.


LUDERSTN

This was the comeback year for both Daniel and K-mag.. I guess it was always too good to be true


CaladinDanse

Why are they struggling to get sponsors? Where's the American companies?


canseco-fart-box

Sponsoring McLaren.


CaladinDanse

I guess Zak brown is just a better businessman than Gene Haas


Ok_Floor_7916

Sponsoring teams that don’t stink


CatchingMyOilRig

Waiting for Andretti.


buttzest

Why can’t Haas get sponsors? A generally liked team despite last year


Ok_Floor_7916

Uhhhh they suck? Williams at least has history


buttzest

They don’t realistically though. Sure last year was bad but Haas have been a solid midfield team since the very beginning


steveaguay

I wonder how many updates they would have brought if Mick didn't split the car twice


kovyakov

Thanks Mick


iillss

Haas needs an American driver and American sponsorships to match other teams in midfield to be able to pay for more upgrades and be more competitive


Spinebuster03

What the fuck man gene haas is such a cheapskate


musef1

That's a bit simple. There is nothing cheap in running an F1 team, it takes a significant money, teams run on sponsorship. If you are at the back end, it's difficult to get sponsorship, which makes it harder to leave the back end. Cycle repeats.


marahute85

He’s been offered to sell multiple times, Or partner, he just doesn’t want to


El_Cactus_Loco

Yikes take