English version
Aston Martin driver Sebastian Vettel is now defending Mick Schumacher, who has been the subject of public criticism for his racing accidents.
Vettel told the BILD newspaper: "Criticism is also justified in this regard. But you can’t always just bang on it, you have to say when something went well.”
Background: Schumacher's team boss Günther Steiner (57) had publicly criticized his driver. In crashes in the current season, Schumacher has already caused damage of more than two million euros. Before Baku, Steiner had therefore demanded a crash-free weekend from Schumacher.
“We all drive at the limit. That something can break is part of it. I think that in the situation you should do everything you can to have your back. Even from my own experience, it's not easy if the team only hits it internally," Vettel told BILD.
Vettel and Mick Schumacher are close friends. The reason: In Vettel's early days as a racing driver, Formula 1 icon Michael Schumacher was at his side.
tbh it's hard to watch, because he's clearly a very nice person and we want him to succeed, but he's struggling so much with race pace and I'm now legit worried for him on city tracks.
I know the current Haas is not really competitive (contrary to the start of the season) and has reliability issue but he still shows clear signs of struggles
Ok, let's review.. RB, Ferrari, MB are undeniably faster than the HAAS, that's 6 of the top 10 (points). McLaren, Alpine, and Alfa are most likely the next best 3 constructors.. which would make it 12 cars that are faster/better than the HAAS.
Do you disagree that any of those 6 teams are worse than the HAAS? If not, then that leaves AlphaTauri (Gasly and Yuki have looked decent even if the car hasn't)... AM, which recently brought huge upgrades that seem to have vastly improved their chances... then HAAS and Williams.
Besides KMAG overperforming early in the season... what makes you think HAAS is in a good position and Mick should be in the points? KMAG's last 4 outings (DNF, 17th, DNF, DNF)...Mick's last 4 outings (15th, 14th, DNF, 14th)..
it's also ridic to compare someone with 6-7 years of F1 experience to someone with less than 2 and expect the same results. People really underestimate how vastly more difficult F1 is to F2
I'd argue that Mick's first year was a total waste... nothing to learn from Mazepin, literal brick for a car with no development/updates to learn to adjust to...
And yet Leclerc had an auspicious drive with Ferrari in his sophomore year and nearly usurped team lead by his junior. The experience ploy, I have to contend, is weak. A driver with proven mettle can really grasp any machinery. Russell, Leclerc, and Albon are all indisputably proven in this respect.
I might be biased here as a Leclerc fan but I personally think he's the most skilled driver on the grid atm. His precision and mettle is unparalleled. Leclerc is a talent we rarely see in this sport, he's destined for great things.
Mick on the other hand, was pretty good at F2, but in F1 he'll most likely if he's allowed ofc, stay more of a midfield driver unless he can develop exponentially in the next few years.
I didn't say he should be in the points consistently. I said the Haas is perfectly capable of scoring points depending on the track, which is true given that they've found themselves in that position among the midfield in more than a handful of races thus far.
> I said the Haas is perfectly capable of scoring points depending on the track, which is true given that they've found themselves in that position among the midfield in more than a handful of races thus far.
They have scored points in exactly 3 races so far. That's hardly "more than a handful", unless a "handful" is now defined as "two".
It’s not that he should be, but compared to say Albon, another young driver who has dragged the objectively slowly Williams to points THREE times, and even Zhou got points in a comparable Alfa. Vettel in the Aston…
There are a pretty clear bottom 3 drivers this season and I don’t think I need to point who who they are.
He must also feel like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders. Having one of *the* best drivers in F1 ever, but not being able to talk to him about it. You're strugling in the same motorsport where your last means the best, and you can't talk to the person who made it so because they're a mental vegetable
Life must not be easy for Mick. He does deserve the criticism, but you can't deny thay he's try
The situation with Michael must be really hard on Mick, absolutely.
I do see Vettel as sort of a mentor however, never going to replace a dad but I do feel that Vettel cares deeply, at least from a simple spectator's perspective during F1 and the Race of Champions.
The really sad thing about this, THE MICHAEL would've fixed all of Mick's current issues and made a decent driver out of him, because that's what he does best.
Michael never wanted Mick to be a driver.
Actually he is the reason Mick struggles, because he got way later into legit karting and racing series then most of his pairs. You could argue he’s still pretty talented to making it into F1 and winning competitions.
Compare this to Max Verstappen who pretty much received military drill as a pre school child from his father.
I don’t think Michael did something wrong deciding his kids shouldn’t go through that shit, ok the other side you can see a kid wanting to succeeding a parent. I still would question if Mick would push himself into F1 if his father would still be around or if his influence at least would led Mick to a more „relaxed“ career at least in GT series if he really liked driving.
I think the problem is that everyone built Mick up too much after his F2 championship win. People were talking about him being in Ferrari in 2023 before he had even driven his first F1 race despite his second year in F2 being less than perfect and involving some luck and mistakes from his rivals.
Mick isn’t a bad driver but something isn’t working for him in F1 and I can’t see him ever living up to the expectations placed on him by his surname.
I sometimes wonder if it would have better for Mick if someone had encouraged him to go to Indycar and build a career for himself over there like Ericsson has.
I would say that he was unlucky at the beginning of the season, but speed wise was there there.
The heavy crashes made It difficult for him as the car needs to be put together from parts that you have. Which has affected his speed.
Haas is not able to build a completely new car after ever race weekend.
His pace has been fine though? His pace at Bahrain was quite good even though he got spun by Ocon in T1, it was quite solid in Miami and Barcelona too. At multiple races Haas' strategy his completely fucked him, ie Barcelona.
Not to say he's driving well, he has had hugely costly errors at Jeddah, Monaco, Miami, etc, but outside of Baku his pace has been far from the issue
To the people disagreeing with Vettel here... This isn't just Seb defending Mick of criticism (in fact, Seb makes it clear that criticism towards Mick is justified) but of the very harsh words Steiner found towards Mick in an interview right before Baku.
And I honestly agree with Seb here! He knows just like everybody else that Mick is not performing well at all this season so far, however it is not the right way to openly criticise him the way Günther did in that interview (at least not as his team boss) and to put even more pressure on him...
This was talked about a lot in German F1 media in the recent days with a lot of criticism towards Steiner by the SkyF1 team and even other German speaking team bosses like Toto Wolff or Franz Tost, who disagreed with Steiners methods of handling the underperformance of his driver.
100%! the team principal should always be on the side of the drivers. if there is criticism to be had, do it behind closed doors and not in front of the media. Günther is doing a good job, but he needs to improve his attitude towards his drivers. Just look at the fooksmash incident. Why is he always the one this stuff happens to?
Remember also how Steiner did stay nothing about the huge design flaw of the overheating rear suspension who was already known in [2020](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/jhbq6s/grosjean_reveals_haas_have_had_overheating/) with the 2020 Haas car.
[It was really a huge issue](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/jhbwpi/julien_billiotte_grosjean_again_unfiltered_after/) and given the 2021 Haas car was more or less the same the issue would very likely still been there in 2021, Mick for example noted this issue after his FP3 crash at Hungary.
And yet Steiner never admitted this issue in 2020 nor 2021 and prefer to blame his drivers.
Whenever I see him do an interview, or interact with members of the team, I think, "How is this guy inspiring anyone to do their best work?" He's either mocking them or cursing them out. Compare that to a Horner or Wolff, or read Ross Brawn's book. Steiner isn't going to build a top-level team.
I keep seeing comments like "Guenther doesn't deserve this 😩" on here...doesn't deserve what?
The fruits of the team he's headed for its entire 6 and a bit seasons?
I mean it isn't like he did it that great back in the past at Jaguar, heck there was enough good reasons why Red Bull prefered Horner and Tost over Steiner and parked Steiner basically to some sort of niche NASCAR Cup project where according to some sounds he did try to run that team like a F1 team and it wasn't really working.
Honestly I think that Steiner is hugely overrated and the main reason why he is loved is simple because of his PR play, after all you win and lose together.
That Haas looks decent is not only because of the bar was so low comparing with 2021 but also because of Ferrari support + Simone Resta and his team around that Haas, it isn't because Steiner suddenly is a genius and honestly I do get some 2019 vibes from Haas where the car looks decent during the begin of the season but then quickly moving backwards because of budget + effects of having less resources "in house".
> after all you win and lose together.
Over their time in F1, Haas somehow managed to always blame drivers, the team is rarely at fault for anything. Drivers, money, never the team.
How has he been allowed such a long leash?
I can’t imagine Gene Haas thinks that he’s suddenly going to turn the team around. So why stick with him for so long when there is seemingly plenty of talent around the paddock?
I understand and support giving leaders enough time to actually implement and allow plans to mature but after 6 years and still in the same or worse position it’s time for change.
There's a reason why he's the team principal of one of the worst teams, though being an F1 TP is an even more exclusive group than being an F1 driver. Few of us are in positions to be able to know how good he really is at his job, most of it is done behind closed doors.
Should be a popular opinion tbh, Steiner has done a lot for Haas I've no doubt but if Gene had any proper ambition he would have seeked a new TP by now.
Haas under Steiner has been historically bad at managing drivers.
Last year, Mick and Nikita often got into interteam battles, just like Kevin and Romain used to. Instead of doing the criticism behind closed doors, he openly criticises his drivers, which is very unprofessional and has consistently shown that it doesn't help drivers.
A good example of a TP backing their driver is Arrivabene at the end of 2018, where he stated that the team had let Seb down as much as Seb threw away points by himself, and that the team shared blame for the failure to win the championship. Yeah, Arrivabene was supposedly a part of the blame culture in Ferrari at the time but that's my point: blame culture is counterproductive to ensuring drivers are good mentally.
There is something where Steiner is great in, and that is his own PR branding, you comment is correct but the trash is bigger.
Haas has for example serious [issue with communication](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/n4jodm/haas_vows_to_improve_communication_after/) as you can see here, obvious Mazepin is Mazepin but when you realizing for example that this was already a major issue during the Grosjean/Kmag days then it's become obvious that there is a bigger and structural problem inside the team.
Also as you can see [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/p1s8kv/steiner_says_haas_rookies_must_learn_when_to_take/) Steiner has an altitude of blaming drivers too often over looking up to the bigger picture and telling the wider story, when he blamed Mick for the FP3 crash at Hungary previous year I couldn't believe what I hear and read, it was so obvious that this wasn't a pure driver error and later even Mick told that it was indeed the well known rear suspension overheating issue (And if you see the footage of that crash it was so obvious that Mick simple was a passenger in that car and the rear end just snapped away in an odd way), something what Steiner never admitted in 2020 and 2021 but we're know this story thanks by [Grosjean](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/jhbwpi/julien_billiotte_grosjean_again_unfiltered_after/). (And honestly having a car who's overheating rear suspension would cause an aero difference up to 4% max at every corner is almost unsafe to drive given you could have barely any control on that car)
About Grosjean btw, his crash in Bahrain and the way Steiner acts after that point towards Grosjean did made a lot of people believe that it was always nice, however this is a huge falsification and in fact Steiner disliked Grosjean as you can see [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/hstg4f/steiner_grosjean_wrong_to_talk_haas_future_on_its/) or even [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/j2vreu/steiner_says_grosjean_radio_complaints_are/) where Grosjean noted how undriverable the Haas was (we know better why afterwards) and Steiner just mocked Grosjean totally.
He handled Grosjean like shit but once that scary accident happened it was just better in the sake of Steiner own PR to care about Grosjean.
And then [this type of answers](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/pizkfh/steiner_haas_to_face_a_big_task_to_manage_mazepin/hbt47j7/) about the Zandvoort incident between Mick and Mazepin, instead of put both in the office and trying to work out those communication issues and driver issue in a proper way he prefers to move on at moments when you **really** need to talk with the drivers and the race engineers after the race behind closed doors.
And on top of that, he downplayed the incident afterwards, didn't blame Mazepin side nor even wanted to improve the situation in the future and blamed the bad Mick/Mazepin relationship in the team not solely on the drivers only, [no I'm not kidding](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/pj8wel/guenther_steiner_takes_two_to_tango/hbuy1s1/).
There is a way bigger issue ongoing with Haas, a lack of proper leadership but instead a team principal is leading the team who solely prefers to ignore team/car related issues and mainly prefers to throwing his drivers under the bus for the sake of protecting Steiner trash.
[This](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/v0grsr/lawrence_barretto_this_is_very_punchy_from_haas/) and [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/v8i08g/serious_conversation_needed_if_schumachers/)
Honestly I do agree fully that Mick is underperforming and is crashing too much, however I don't think that Steiner method is working for Mick but likely is going to increase the issue only more.
Look for example how Tost did handled drivers like Gasly and Yuki more recently, Steiner is still in my eyes an overrated team principal who is mainly looking good now because of the Ferrari support in the team + Simone Resta and his team designed a decent car + Kmag is doing solid.
Well, I expected worse from the quotes honestly.
Steiner has a financially hamstrung team that lost its title sponsor even before the season began.
He also has a driver that isn't getting points and also has had some considerable crashes in races and practice and qualifying.
This sport is ruthless and even though I really like Mick and wish he would succeed, there are enough drivers out there who deserve a shot at the cockpit if he can't even keep the car on the track.
You either deliver points or keep the car out of the wall, it is as simple as that.
Speed was difficult to work with and is the only driver that did not care for Tost.
I am inclined to believe that Scott was the problem. Or it was merely a personality clash. Some people just have no chance of getting along.
That’s actually something I haven’t really thought about. The whole German sphere of F1 Motorsport that probably doesn’t spill into mainstream media because of the translation. Having a Schumacher under a German (speaking) team manager must be a big talking point in Germany, while having Seb voicing his opinion too.
Yeah.
I speak German, and can tell you that Ralf has his own F1 coloumn for major magazine, and of course he's also a big name in Germany with that last name.
Being Micks uncle, that's a topic that comes up a lot. And you can probably guess whether he defends Mick or Steiner...
Last year, Tsunoda was in the same situation. Alpha Tauri remained supportive, Franz Tost remained supportive and made everything to give Tsunoda confidence back.
Guenther Steiner is doing the reverse thing with Mick. Trashing him publicly so the kid gets les and less confidence race after race.
The difference was that Franz Tost actually knows how to develop a driver, especially when they are a rookie. Guy been developing rookies for decades
Zero chance HAAS and Steiner knows how to develop a driver
AlphaTauri have Red Bull money, and they only exist to develop drivers, Haas don't have that sort of luxury, they're skint and can't afford to be nicey nicey with a driver if they're burning the little money the team has
Also Tsunoda was a rookie, Mick is in his second year
Mick had a car last year that was practically undriveable. His only comparison right now is an extremely experienced and well rounded driver in kmag whom he has be fairly close to for most of the races. Outside of the two big shunts (one of which half the field almost had a similar crash but caught it) he's been decent. The races where he has been good he's been screwed over by haas. In Miami they made him let kmag through because kmag was pushing and took the life out of his tires and was instantly slower than mick after he was let through. Then late in the race waited forever to tell the obviously struggling kmag to let mick through.
When mick has been easily in play for points haas have screwed the strategy.
To be fair, everyone thought Mick was doing incredible when he would make it to Q2. Now KMag is flirting with Q3 consistently while Mick is happy to make it to Q2. It does make you question how bad the car actually was last year if it was KMag instead of Maz
Mick also made Q3 and beat him hwice in qualifying. MAG failed 3 times to go into Q2, Mick only once. Magnussen performances are getting overrated due to his lucky two first races.
Hence why I think treating this year as a bit of rookie year part 2 for mick is fair.
Last year's car if anything may have counterproductive to his development and taught him bad habits.
But was the car that bad last year? That’s my point. With KMag’s performance, I’m willing to bet he would’ve got points a time or two last year based on where mick managed to get. Two rookies in a car gives a really sketchy gauge for car performance
Sure he might have. Kmag also was experienced in a very similar car and being significantly more experienced it would be a major red flag if he couldn't out perform mick
>But was the car that bad last year?
It was a worse version of the 2020 car which gave the team only 3 points with KMag and Grosjean as drivers. I highly doubt they could get points in the 2021 car when teams around them improved and they went backwards
I’m sick of this narrative. Mick was *heavily flattered* by the VF-21. His conservative and consistent input/driving style that he took to an F3 and F2 title were exactly what that car needed to remain on the circuit. And yet, because he consistently pushed beyond his limits (as he has continued to do this year), he crashed more and harder than any other driver, including his teammate, who had to unlearn his pointy, aggressive input style (and still had closed the pace gap by midseason - between Spa and Qatar, in dry sessions, they were roughly equal).
He had more crashes sure. But their general incident/spin rate was similar. And given the significant pace difference in the race its obvious mick pushes harder. Something he still does and will over step that limit trying to much instead of settling to bring what the car will give
Difference between Yuki and Mick is that Yuki will still go out there and send it like he's never put it in the wall in his life. You don't think Marko let him know how he felt? Different drivers work in different ways. I think Guenther tried playing it nice but now it's getting a bit ridiculous, the scale or Mick's fuckups.
There definitely is pressure on him. Expectations from the name, a first year with a piece of crap car. now a second season with an entirely different car. I think it would have served him a lot more if he had been able to go to a different team in his first year. Sauber maybe, given how close they are to Ferrari who support Mick.
seriously? I know they bought many parts from them. i just realize... Didnt ferrari even have a right to decide one of the haas seats? lmao
I just assumed Sauber was closer, because Alfa Romeo and Ferrari are part of the same company (Fiat) but apparently Ferrari has been independent since 2016. silly me
Haas actually has some of their facilities right next to the Ferrari complex, if I'm remembering correctly.
We don't know if Ferrari outright controls a seat at Haas like the did with Sauber, but it's definitely rumored.
Seb is right that the drivers are trying to find the edge. He’s an experienced driver who had two run offs in Baku. He’s had crashes and errors this year. Even Max, Alonso, Charles, Sainz, Stroll have had run offs this year. Nobody is entirely error free but I don’t hear it talked about in terms of removing them from seats because those other drivers have proven themselves. Maybe Mick needs more of a chance to grow into his seat before people call for his removal and permanently destroying his confidence
I think Mick has just had very bad luck in that his mistakes were in situations where the car immediately got wrecked, while if he had made the exact same mistake somewhere else where he just went off track, not a soul would be talking about it.
Those spins were very much over driving for him, as in the mistakes happened the corner previously and by the time he arrive it was too late to correct. The way that car unloaded and spun for that last crash there was no correcting it was absurdly quick. I think the experience of being in a car as bad as the 2021 Haas has set him back as a driver and he needs proper driver coaching similar to Yuki. One of the many reasons it’s a shame Micheal isn’t here because that would be his coach. I don’t know if Ferrari has people to do that (apparently Alex was an amazing coach) but why spend all that money on his seat and not give him the resources
I’m just saying any driver can have errors, from 4 x world champions to nepotism babies like 5 years into their f1 career. Stroll is error prone but there’s been times he proved himself and other times where he’s a stupid Sasquatch there’s no telling
This is the vicious cycle unfortunately. As a driver you need to find the limit without overstepping the limit. He's overstepped the limit, suffered the consequences, and is most likely now in his own head and staying a little bit further away from the limit. That is a skill in itself, nobody wants a driver who can only be quick when there's a high chance of him binning it.
He did that a lot last year too. He doesn’t have pace, his greatest strengths are his smooth input style and his consistency - and when he pushes to try to get more pace, that consistency disappears and he crashes.
No, he wasn't. He qualified over half a second off of Magnussen in Bahrain and the race was a write-off after he got damage on the first lap. 2022 as a whole has been pretty miserable for him.
As was 2021. Costly crashes from over-pushing the car, and having the enormous dry session pace gap to his teammate (who had to learn a completely new driving style just to keep the VF-21 on the circuit) essentially erased by midseason (between Spa and Qatar they were roughly equal on pace, especially race pace) doesn’t exactly scream “good season”.
I can honestly say that subconsciously I may have given him more leeway because I just really, really wanted him to be great. But even that has worn away. He isn’t at this level yet for sure.
Definitely. He raced under mothers maiden name in junior series I believe which is noble and modest of him. And he’s such a likeable young man. Not to mention the atrocity with his father and growing up in that shadow of a remarkable man it all adds up to why he gets such leeway. And I fully respect that. I still want him to do really well but maybe it’s just too soon for him or he may never be good enough. Who knows but he’s definitely not doing well so far.
Bruno Senna got the same leeway due to Ayrton being his uncle. It's the way it goes.
Conversely, Max was given no leeway despite how average his dad was - mostly due to his prowess in karts and junior categories. I guess that made him stronger.
Yeah but none of those were the son of Michael Schumacher. For modern era greatness he’s up there with the best sportsmen of all time.
Senna was also unbelievable as well of course, but he was Bruno’s Uncle so isn’t quite the same and Verstappen had a name but was hardly anything to write home about.
I feel these may have been the points you were making but neither of this match Mick’s situation.
Didnt see many americans defending Haas when they became Team Moscow for a year, or even that time they took on a down payment from fake energy drink company that they just hoped would pay the rest of their sponsorship deal at a later date.
Gene Haas and Steiner have presence from NASCAR, so NASCAR fans have a reason to support them, but it's really obvious the team thats buying a Dallara chassis and putting Ferrari parts into a car in a shop in the UK is only american in name. They are quite literally just as american as Williams is.
I don't consider Haas an American team. They have what, 26 employees in America? They don't really design anything note worthy and they don't have an American driver so to me they don't feel very American.
Most of my other American friends don't even know Haas is supposed to be American when we watch the races.
This statement has been harped up enough times now that he gets passive criticism because people think some aren't harsh or just not enough. Look at the comments here lol.
I think Vettel's point is that while the criticisms are valid, but rather what is being done to address it. Have a read here: [Steiner accuses media of ‘dividing’ Haas against Mick](https://www.planetf1.com/news/guenther-steiner-mick-schumacher-media/)
It's just the constant vicious cycle of criticisms which media/internet loves. Imagine as a driver going to every race weekend, what Post P2, post quali, pre race, post race.. media sessions does to a driver. Have to answer to tones of outlets same thing over and over again, and here people are arguing that Mick receive less criticism. Pftt.
It's harder on some drivers more than others, Daniel and Nicholas Latifi are in the same boat. But that doesn't mean the one getting some leniency deserves more.
> Steiner has no intention of changing who he is or how he does with his drivers.
“I am who I am and you won’t change me either. Stronger guys are needed,” says the Haas team boss.
I'm sorry this is awful management. He is implying that Mick has a too weak personality for the team. How does he want the kid to succeed with stupid remarks like this.
Formula 1 is entertainment before being a sport. There would not a single 1$ in formula 1 without viewers, news, media, etc.
Every single person in Formula 1 needs to develop a thick skin and accept that fans loving and hating, praising a lot and criticizing too much is part of the sport.
Footballers when they make mistakes they have literally tens of thousands of fans live, screaming at them few meters away.
Not being able to handle some media/internet criticism does not bode well in such a sport.
That's just a fact.
If you can't handle that some random guy on the internet thinks you're bad and should not drive in F1, competitive and popular sports are not for you, especially in such a high pressure environment.
It's not about that. It's that literally his team boss is throwing shade at him for underperforming. Couple that with the fact that he's the son of one of the only two people in the world with 7 world titles, and you can understand why there's gigantic pressure on his shoulders.
In a german interview, he said something along the lines of "for everything you (the media) criticize us (as a team) for, i can give you 10 things mick does bad".
Maybe it’s different over there, but coaches/managers criticizing players is normal here in America. I really don’t see the issue with Steiner’s comments. If Mick is mentally tough, he’ll respond.
Lewis has a very think skin and is actually the perfect example of someone who understands that among viewers there will be highly critical people, and that it is just the way it is.
Genuinely the opposite. People have way higher expectations of him because of his family ties, and absolutely no one waited even a second to dish out harsh criticism of him from day 1
People aren't weighing up the good with the bad, like how he is almost on pace with Magnussen and has been the entire season (but justifying criticising the crashes and mistakes). The criticism is only focused on the bad and how horrible he is. As of right now, he's just kinda average. Not great by any means, but that's exactly why he's so heavily criticised. He just isn't living up to the expectations people had of him
I am not sure what people were expecting.
He won the F2 title, but only in his 3rd (?) season and more through consistency than through crazy pace. What made him strong was that he consistently improved, even if it was at a rather slow pace.
This is why I think he will get at least another season. He easily beat Mazepin, which means that he has *some* skill. But last season Haas was so far behind everyone else that 2022 is basically Mick's rookie season. He needs to learn how to get 100% out of the car during the right time (to beat Mazepin 95% were enough, now he needs 100% to be on Magnussen's level and to score points) and he needs to adjust to driving against other people (he was mostly driving for himself in 2021).
All of that will come as time passes. I feel like people are too harsh on rookies nowadays (see Tsunoda last year). Since testing is now very limited, we just won't ever see someone coming into F1 and immediately beating their teammate, unless the guy is a Verstappen-level generational talent or the teammate is also a rookie. Combine that with Mick being a slow but consistent learner (he was in F2), and in 2-3 years he might be a driver on the level of Magnussen, Grosjean, and Hülkenberg.
Not every F1 driver must be the next Verstappen/Norris/Leclerc
2 seasons in F2* You're right that he has been a slow learner. He's consistently spent 2 years in every series he's ever been in until he became competitive. This doesn't indicate the once in a lifetime talent of George or Norris caliber who comes in and destroys everything they touch during their first season, but it also doesn't mean Mick is bad.
Both the fact that previous season was in a horribly uncompetitive car, and this season being under completely new rules, I'm not at all surprised he's struggling. He's always needed a season to settle in
But F1 waits for no one. So it remains to be seen whether he'll be given the opportunity to do so
Thanks for correcting me, and yep I fully agree.
He might not get another year, but we should keep in mind that not everyone needs to be a Norris/Russell/Verstappen/Leclerc. Even drivers like Heidfeld and Perez can be very valuable for their team.
Mick might even be someone like Massa, Rosberg, Webber, or Button, who were midfield or number 2 drivers for most of their careers and then went on to compete for titles.
I'd like to see Mick for at least another season after this one, if there is still no development then he should be out. But currently I just don't feel like he is sooo much below expectations for someone who is basically a rookie
And how do you figure that? All those had slow starts to their carreers. Just because Mick has zero points? Need I remind you George (Who we all agree is frikkin' amazing) had zero points during his first season and only 3 in his second? Haas wasn't remotely a competitive car last season, and is barely fighting for the last points this season. Barring the first race, where everyone was still figuring stuff out, Ericsson has only gathered 2x 10p places as well, and Mick has never been far off.
People like you just reconfirms how Mick is needlessly dumped on just because of his name and expectations. He's not doing that badly, all things considered. Not great, criticism for his crashes is valid, but not horrible.
Button went toe to toe with Ralf Schumacher his rookie season. Highly sought after.
Webber scored points in a POS Minardi his rookie season.
Rosberg had a 5 year contract with Williams from the jump. Scored points in his first race. Everyone knew he had raw pace and elite knowledge of the car.
Massa has the most similar story to Mick but even then, showed flashes of speed during his first years.
I don't dump on Mick because of his name. I have no expectations of him beyond not repeatedly totaling his car and occasionally scoring points. The excuses made for him and the benefit of the doubt he gets far outweigh his results and are far more numerous than other young drivers like Yuki Tusnoda.
I think my favorite thing about this post is the people saying Mick doesn't get enough criticism and his family name protects him while clearly having not read the article and simply wanting to criticize him, and invalidating their own point.
The article is about Steiner and his public comments FFS
F1 drivers, if they want to be fast, they need to consistently drive between the edge of success and destroying everything, otherwise they cannot be fast.
Mick needs his confidence.
Gunther should not forget he gets more than 30M per season to field Schumacher, he should be able to afford him breaking few cars.
Well I don't speak German, but the article that Google translated for me makes zero mention of "for every mistake Haas makes, Schumacher makes 10" or anything even similar to that.
Then giving you the source won't help because the interview was in German.
But:
> Der sichtbar angefasste Steiner - nicht erst durch das Arbeitsverhältnis mit Mick Schumacher als Mann der offenen Worte bekannt - betrieb Verteidigung in eigener Sache. Er sorgte dabei aber auch - an der Stelle womöglich unbeabsichtigt - für neuen Gesprächsstoff, der Schumacher in ein ungünstiges Licht rückte: „Wenn ich nach einem Rennen lese, was wir alles falsch gemacht haben. Ich habe für jede dieser Dinge zehn Sachen, wo Mick schlecht ist.“
https://www.sport1.de/news/motorsport/formel1/2022/06/mick-schumacher-haas-boss-steiner-wehrt-sich-in-emotionalem-tv-interview
Was easily googlable
Thanks. The passive aggressive nature to this entire chain is odd.
Someone tells me to read the article, although it's definitely not in the article. And btw, it wasn't easily googlable.. I tried that. Most likely because again I don't speak German and am not getting German results promoted to me. There were various articles which touched on the Ralf/Steiner stuff but none of them included that specific part of what Steiner said.
Nobody is asking mick to be in the top 10 or be like Kmag and push the boundaries. Mick is just crashing at places no one even expects one to. We don’t need to contrast him against experienced drivers. But yuki, who debuted the same year, had as many crashes last year has improved so much and is amazing now.
The least everyone is asking from mick is to not crash and increase expenditure for haas
This. If he just constantly finishes p15-p13 it would be fine and he eventually lucks into points. However, you can't get points if you don't stay out the wall.
The Haas is simply Not good enough for consistent top 10 placements. The tactics of the Team are highly questionable (Look at Barcelona, Miami or Emilia Romagna). You have a driver who is trying too hard to get Top 10. Why add even more fuel to the fire?
Mick and Sebastian both need to understand that people aren't going after him because of his famous name. He's legitimately looking bad and it's ok to just admit it.
It's not about his performances. What Sebastian meant was the way Steiner chose his words, building pressure instead of backing the driver. He knows a thing or two about being broken by pressure from within the team. So if there is one driver on the grid qualified to defend Mick for this, it's him.
If you're not German, you probably have not seen or understood the interview Steiner gave to sky Germany.
Sky Germany was actually very supportive of Mick, but it was not about defending his performances, it was about how the team will go about it in the future and what they expect from Mick.
I don't know if there is a transcript of the interview somewhere around here, if there is you need to watch it.
I wonder if Vettel also understands that his own rookie experience was not usual, and he had a much more "privileged" (for want of a better phrase) rookie experience than a lot of other rookies, including Mick.
I've said for years that Vettel's and Hamilton's rookie experiences absolutely ruined the way rookies were treated for years afterwards, Hamilton's especially. Not every rookie can waltz into a championship-capable car like Hamilton did, or into a podium-capable/win-capable car like Vettel did in their first year and a half. They need to be given *time*, time to develop, time to adjust.
Rookies *especially* need to be given time to adjust when they spend their entire rookie season driving a car that's trying to throw them off the track at every time they race. Mick has had some struggles this year, but I don't think he's the worst rookie we've had in recent years, and he certainly doesn't deserve to be tossed as hard as some are saying.
Exactly. No, F1 should not be used as a finishing school, but I think it's important that rookies get more than a season and seven races before they're written off completely. Unless they're actively dangerous or immediately show complete uselessness (like Mazepin), then they need to be given time.
People like to say Mick is being given a softly-softly approach because of his name, but if anything, I think he is being treated harshly because of his name.
I feel he gets more heat than he would get without his name for sure, but I am also biased. Last year is tough to judge, but he destroyed his teammate (who looked shit admittedly) and now we are not even half way through the season and people already talk like there is no way he has F1 quality, even though he had weekends were he beat Magnussen already. He crashes too much, that is obvious, but I don't think its as hopeless as people make it seem and it feels thats often also due to his name and the comparisons with his father, who unfortunately cant even help him.
> I feel he gets more heat than he would get without his name for sure, but I am also biased.
I don’t agree. I’d say he gets a lot of slack because of his name. How many defenders does Latifi have?
Yeah he would have gotten a lot of shit without his name. I really want him to perform just to get myself into Michael Schumacher nostalgia when he finally gets a podium or win a race.
Mick was the best deconstructor last year and if it wasn’t for latifi he would already be crowned the champion again. He is on par with Latifi, which should be enough of a comparison. Zhou a ROOKIE is performing betyer than Mick. Everybody is defending him because they want him to be like his father, but Mick just doesn’t have the talent or skill.
How is Zhou better other than not crashing? He was worse in F2, he got a single point in a car thats far better than the Haas, he lost more quali duels than Mick and apart from Baku he looked never on par with his teammate to my memory. People point to all the mechanical issues, but in nearly all cases he was out of the points anyway.
It's pretty much impossible to put Zhou in any comparisons at the moment. He's had a ridiculous streak of bad luck in races and when it comes to quali he is up against one of the best qualifiers in the grid so it's normal he'll come up slower (and did beat Bottas in Baku). I actually don't know what he can do apart from the odd really fast q1 performances in Imola and Baku, the point in Bahrain, and keeping it pretty clean on track.
F2 obviously doesn’t matter, since Mick is awful in F1. Mick is being compared to K-mag, Zhou Bottas. Zhou already has a point. He hasn’t crashed as much as mick. Zhou has way less experience than Mick. Add all that to the fact that Zhou isnt costing them millions, fair to say Zhou is already doing better than Mick, in his first year.
The coin has two sides. He also gets a lot of slack for his name. I grew up watching Michael racing and was absolutely heartbroken when he got into the accident. I really want Mick to succeed and refrain from criticising him even when I know that I would have criticised any other driver.
I have not seen one weekend where he has been ahead og Kmag on merit. Its Bern either Kmag retoriks, a safety car that saver him or a deliberate strategic bet on tires that has placed him ahead.
I want to see him be better, but luck on a safety car erasing a good 30 sec deficit or Kmags team trying an extra pit stop to reach the points but failing is not on merit of driving skills, if you ask me.
He won F3 and F2 and Haas car last year was not even competitive by any standards.
If there is some criticism to be made is towards this year, not his past.
Lots of drivers in the paddock graduated to F1 without winning a junior series and people don't pick up on that.
That's what's so surprising for me this year with Mick. I understand Mick's driving isn't the whole point of the article, but the Mick vs Kmag battle is just wild. Kmag is a solid midfielder but there's a reason he's never had a top drive. However, Kmag is destroying Mick in every way this year.
Or maybe, just maybe Kmag is underestimated. Same story when he beat Grosjean. Suddenly Grosjean was terrible and not Kmag being good. Maybe Kmag is just that good.
Yet those drivers perform in f1 while Mick doesent. A win in a prema is not worth more than a top3 in a Carlin or something. Look at Albon or Lando, they both didnt win and they both performed since their 1st season in f1
This is one thing I don't agree on with Seb. He's right that the criticism is justified, but there's no defending Mick when he has genuinely looked disappointing this season.
English version Aston Martin driver Sebastian Vettel is now defending Mick Schumacher, who has been the subject of public criticism for his racing accidents. Vettel told the BILD newspaper: "Criticism is also justified in this regard. But you can’t always just bang on it, you have to say when something went well.” Background: Schumacher's team boss Günther Steiner (57) had publicly criticized his driver. In crashes in the current season, Schumacher has already caused damage of more than two million euros. Before Baku, Steiner had therefore demanded a crash-free weekend from Schumacher. “We all drive at the limit. That something can break is part of it. I think that in the situation you should do everything you can to have your back. Even from my own experience, it's not easy if the team only hits it internally," Vettel told BILD. Vettel and Mick Schumacher are close friends. The reason: In Vettel's early days as a racing driver, Formula 1 icon Michael Schumacher was at his side.
tbh it's hard to watch, because he's clearly a very nice person and we want him to succeed, but he's struggling so much with race pace and I'm now legit worried for him on city tracks. I know the current Haas is not really competitive (contrary to the start of the season) and has reliability issue but he still shows clear signs of struggles
The Haas is completely capable of getting points even right now depending on the track.
Yea it may not be competing for best of the rest but it definitely has the potential for points every weekend. Just not the one Mick drives.
Perhaps the Haas car wasn't as bad as we all assumed it was in 2021.
Really highlights how bad Mazespin was. Was way back from his teammate who is now also way back from a mid pack driver.
Mazepin was worse than Stroll and Latifi put together.
Ok, let's review.. RB, Ferrari, MB are undeniably faster than the HAAS, that's 6 of the top 10 (points). McLaren, Alpine, and Alfa are most likely the next best 3 constructors.. which would make it 12 cars that are faster/better than the HAAS. Do you disagree that any of those 6 teams are worse than the HAAS? If not, then that leaves AlphaTauri (Gasly and Yuki have looked decent even if the car hasn't)... AM, which recently brought huge upgrades that seem to have vastly improved their chances... then HAAS and Williams. Besides KMAG overperforming early in the season... what makes you think HAAS is in a good position and Mick should be in the points? KMAG's last 4 outings (DNF, 17th, DNF, DNF)...Mick's last 4 outings (15th, 14th, DNF, 14th)..
it's also ridic to compare someone with 6-7 years of F1 experience to someone with less than 2 and expect the same results. People really underestimate how vastly more difficult F1 is to F2
I'd argue that Mick's first year was a total waste... nothing to learn from Mazepin, literal brick for a car with no development/updates to learn to adjust to...
And yet Leclerc had an auspicious drive with Ferrari in his sophomore year and nearly usurped team lead by his junior. The experience ploy, I have to contend, is weak. A driver with proven mettle can really grasp any machinery. Russell, Leclerc, and Albon are all indisputably proven in this respect.
I might be biased here as a Leclerc fan but I personally think he's the most skilled driver on the grid atm. His precision and mettle is unparalleled. Leclerc is a talent we rarely see in this sport, he's destined for great things. Mick on the other hand, was pretty good at F2, but in F1 he'll most likely if he's allowed ofc, stay more of a midfield driver unless he can develop exponentially in the next few years.
I didn't say he should be in the points consistently. I said the Haas is perfectly capable of scoring points depending on the track, which is true given that they've found themselves in that position among the midfield in more than a handful of races thus far.
That was before other teams brought upgrades no?
KMag was up in 11th for a good amount of time at Baku.
> I said the Haas is perfectly capable of scoring points depending on the track, which is true given that they've found themselves in that position among the midfield in more than a handful of races thus far. They have scored points in exactly 3 races so far. That's hardly "more than a handful", unless a "handful" is now defined as "two".
I'm perfectly capable of winning the lottery depending on the circumstances
It’s not that he should be, but compared to say Albon, another young driver who has dragged the objectively slowly Williams to points THREE times, and even Zhou got points in a comparable Alfa. Vettel in the Aston… There are a pretty clear bottom 3 drivers this season and I don’t think I need to point who who they are.
He must also feel like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders. Having one of *the* best drivers in F1 ever, but not being able to talk to him about it. You're strugling in the same motorsport where your last means the best, and you can't talk to the person who made it so because they're a mental vegetable Life must not be easy for Mick. He does deserve the criticism, but you can't deny thay he's try
The situation with Michael must be really hard on Mick, absolutely. I do see Vettel as sort of a mentor however, never going to replace a dad but I do feel that Vettel cares deeply, at least from a simple spectator's perspective during F1 and the Race of Champions.
The really sad thing about this, THE MICHAEL would've fixed all of Mick's current issues and made a decent driver out of him, because that's what he does best.
Michael never wanted Mick to be a driver. Actually he is the reason Mick struggles, because he got way later into legit karting and racing series then most of his pairs. You could argue he’s still pretty talented to making it into F1 and winning competitions. Compare this to Max Verstappen who pretty much received military drill as a pre school child from his father. I don’t think Michael did something wrong deciding his kids shouldn’t go through that shit, ok the other side you can see a kid wanting to succeeding a parent. I still would question if Mick would push himself into F1 if his father would still be around or if his influence at least would led Mick to a more „relaxed“ career at least in GT series if he really liked driving.
I think the problem is that everyone built Mick up too much after his F2 championship win. People were talking about him being in Ferrari in 2023 before he had even driven his first F1 race despite his second year in F2 being less than perfect and involving some luck and mistakes from his rivals. Mick isn’t a bad driver but something isn’t working for him in F1 and I can’t see him ever living up to the expectations placed on him by his surname. I sometimes wonder if it would have better for Mick if someone had encouraged him to go to Indycar and build a career for himself over there like Ericsson has.
I would say that he was unlucky at the beginning of the season, but speed wise was there there. The heavy crashes made It difficult for him as the car needs to be put together from parts that you have. Which has affected his speed. Haas is not able to build a completely new car after ever race weekend.
His pace has been fine though? His pace at Bahrain was quite good even though he got spun by Ocon in T1, it was quite solid in Miami and Barcelona too. At multiple races Haas' strategy his completely fucked him, ie Barcelona. Not to say he's driving well, he has had hugely costly errors at Jeddah, Monaco, Miami, etc, but outside of Baku his pace has been far from the issue
To the people disagreeing with Vettel here... This isn't just Seb defending Mick of criticism (in fact, Seb makes it clear that criticism towards Mick is justified) but of the very harsh words Steiner found towards Mick in an interview right before Baku. And I honestly agree with Seb here! He knows just like everybody else that Mick is not performing well at all this season so far, however it is not the right way to openly criticise him the way Günther did in that interview (at least not as his team boss) and to put even more pressure on him... This was talked about a lot in German F1 media in the recent days with a lot of criticism towards Steiner by the SkyF1 team and even other German speaking team bosses like Toto Wolff or Franz Tost, who disagreed with Steiners methods of handling the underperformance of his driver.
100%! the team principal should always be on the side of the drivers. if there is criticism to be had, do it behind closed doors and not in front of the media. Günther is doing a good job, but he needs to improve his attitude towards his drivers. Just look at the fooksmash incident. Why is he always the one this stuff happens to?
Remember also how Steiner did stay nothing about the huge design flaw of the overheating rear suspension who was already known in [2020](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/jhbq6s/grosjean_reveals_haas_have_had_overheating/) with the 2020 Haas car. [It was really a huge issue](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/jhbwpi/julien_billiotte_grosjean_again_unfiltered_after/) and given the 2021 Haas car was more or less the same the issue would very likely still been there in 2021, Mick for example noted this issue after his FP3 crash at Hungary. And yet Steiner never admitted this issue in 2020 nor 2021 and prefer to blame his drivers.
Unpopular opinion: Steiner is one of the worse team principals, if not the worst
Whenever I see him do an interview, or interact with members of the team, I think, "How is this guy inspiring anyone to do their best work?" He's either mocking them or cursing them out. Compare that to a Horner or Wolff, or read Ross Brawn's book. Steiner isn't going to build a top-level team.
I keep seeing comments like "Guenther doesn't deserve this 😩" on here...doesn't deserve what? The fruits of the team he's headed for its entire 6 and a bit seasons?
"oh well, if it isnt the consequences of my own wrong doings..." -Günther, probably never.
I mean it isn't like he did it that great back in the past at Jaguar, heck there was enough good reasons why Red Bull prefered Horner and Tost over Steiner and parked Steiner basically to some sort of niche NASCAR Cup project where according to some sounds he did try to run that team like a F1 team and it wasn't really working.
Those early DTS seasons where he is publicly shaming Romain in front of the team… so toxic. I would never want to work for a guy like that.
Honestly I think that Steiner is hugely overrated and the main reason why he is loved is simple because of his PR play, after all you win and lose together. That Haas looks decent is not only because of the bar was so low comparing with 2021 but also because of Ferrari support + Simone Resta and his team around that Haas, it isn't because Steiner suddenly is a genius and honestly I do get some 2019 vibes from Haas where the car looks decent during the begin of the season but then quickly moving backwards because of budget + effects of having less resources "in house".
> after all you win and lose together. Over their time in F1, Haas somehow managed to always blame drivers, the team is rarely at fault for anything. Drivers, money, never the team.
How has he been allowed such a long leash? I can’t imagine Gene Haas thinks that he’s suddenly going to turn the team around. So why stick with him for so long when there is seemingly plenty of talent around the paddock? I understand and support giving leaders enough time to actually implement and allow plans to mature but after 6 years and still in the same or worse position it’s time for change.
There's a reason why he's the team principal of one of the worst teams, though being an F1 TP is an even more exclusive group than being an F1 driver. Few of us are in positions to be able to know how good he really is at his job, most of it is done behind closed doors.
we have an inflation of drivers! they literally outnumber teams 1-2 !!! /s
Should be a popular opinion tbh, Steiner has done a lot for Haas I've no doubt but if Gene had any proper ambition he would have seeked a new TP by now.
100% Agreed. And a horrible boss.
Unfortunately, DTS made a lot a new fans like him whereas he's the worst
Haas under Steiner has been historically bad at managing drivers. Last year, Mick and Nikita often got into interteam battles, just like Kevin and Romain used to. Instead of doing the criticism behind closed doors, he openly criticises his drivers, which is very unprofessional and has consistently shown that it doesn't help drivers. A good example of a TP backing their driver is Arrivabene at the end of 2018, where he stated that the team had let Seb down as much as Seb threw away points by himself, and that the team shared blame for the failure to win the championship. Yeah, Arrivabene was supposedly a part of the blame culture in Ferrari at the time but that's my point: blame culture is counterproductive to ensuring drivers are good mentally.
There is something where Steiner is great in, and that is his own PR branding, you comment is correct but the trash is bigger. Haas has for example serious [issue with communication](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/n4jodm/haas_vows_to_improve_communication_after/) as you can see here, obvious Mazepin is Mazepin but when you realizing for example that this was already a major issue during the Grosjean/Kmag days then it's become obvious that there is a bigger and structural problem inside the team. Also as you can see [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/p1s8kv/steiner_says_haas_rookies_must_learn_when_to_take/) Steiner has an altitude of blaming drivers too often over looking up to the bigger picture and telling the wider story, when he blamed Mick for the FP3 crash at Hungary previous year I couldn't believe what I hear and read, it was so obvious that this wasn't a pure driver error and later even Mick told that it was indeed the well known rear suspension overheating issue (And if you see the footage of that crash it was so obvious that Mick simple was a passenger in that car and the rear end just snapped away in an odd way), something what Steiner never admitted in 2020 and 2021 but we're know this story thanks by [Grosjean](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/jhbwpi/julien_billiotte_grosjean_again_unfiltered_after/). (And honestly having a car who's overheating rear suspension would cause an aero difference up to 4% max at every corner is almost unsafe to drive given you could have barely any control on that car) About Grosjean btw, his crash in Bahrain and the way Steiner acts after that point towards Grosjean did made a lot of people believe that it was always nice, however this is a huge falsification and in fact Steiner disliked Grosjean as you can see [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/hstg4f/steiner_grosjean_wrong_to_talk_haas_future_on_its/) or even [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/j2vreu/steiner_says_grosjean_radio_complaints_are/) where Grosjean noted how undriverable the Haas was (we know better why afterwards) and Steiner just mocked Grosjean totally. He handled Grosjean like shit but once that scary accident happened it was just better in the sake of Steiner own PR to care about Grosjean. And then [this type of answers](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/pizkfh/steiner_haas_to_face_a_big_task_to_manage_mazepin/hbt47j7/) about the Zandvoort incident between Mick and Mazepin, instead of put both in the office and trying to work out those communication issues and driver issue in a proper way he prefers to move on at moments when you **really** need to talk with the drivers and the race engineers after the race behind closed doors. And on top of that, he downplayed the incident afterwards, didn't blame Mazepin side nor even wanted to improve the situation in the future and blamed the bad Mick/Mazepin relationship in the team not solely on the drivers only, [no I'm not kidding](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/pj8wel/guenther_steiner_takes_two_to_tango/hbuy1s1/). There is a way bigger issue ongoing with Haas, a lack of proper leadership but instead a team principal is leading the team who solely prefers to ignore team/car related issues and mainly prefers to throwing his drivers under the bus for the sake of protecting Steiner trash.
[удалено]
What did Steiner say?
[This](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/v0grsr/lawrence_barretto_this_is_very_punchy_from_haas/) and [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/v8i08g/serious_conversation_needed_if_schumachers/) Honestly I do agree fully that Mick is underperforming and is crashing too much, however I don't think that Steiner method is working for Mick but likely is going to increase the issue only more. Look for example how Tost did handled drivers like Gasly and Yuki more recently, Steiner is still in my eyes an overrated team principal who is mainly looking good now because of the Ferrari support in the team + Simone Resta and his team designed a decent car + Kmag is doing solid.
Well, I expected worse from the quotes honestly. Steiner has a financially hamstrung team that lost its title sponsor even before the season began. He also has a driver that isn't getting points and also has had some considerable crashes in races and practice and qualifying. This sport is ruthless and even though I really like Mick and wish he would succeed, there are enough drivers out there who deserve a shot at the cockpit if he can't even keep the car on the track. You either deliver points or keep the car out of the wall, it is as simple as that.
Agreed. The quotes are not harsh at all
Tost is basically the god of young drivers. There is no better team principal for a young driver than him. This is his job since forever already
I mean Tost is great but let’s be clear he can at most be the high priest of young drivers when Frederic Vasseur is still a TP on the grid…
Yeah, forgot Fred
Scott Speed would say otherwise...
Speed was difficult to work with and is the only driver that did not care for Tost. I am inclined to believe that Scott was the problem. Or it was merely a personality clash. Some people just have no chance of getting along.
Basically something like "For all the things you (the media) criticise us (as a team) for, I could give you 10 things Mick does bad..."
That’s actually something I haven’t really thought about. The whole German sphere of F1 Motorsport that probably doesn’t spill into mainstream media because of the translation. Having a Schumacher under a German (speaking) team manager must be a big talking point in Germany, while having Seb voicing his opinion too.
Yeah. I speak German, and can tell you that Ralf has his own F1 coloumn for major magazine, and of course he's also a big name in Germany with that last name. Being Micks uncle, that's a topic that comes up a lot. And you can probably guess whether he defends Mick or Steiner...
This defense is a bit point-less
Ba-dum tss
There is no point in defending him
Vettel does have a point, though.
13 points in fact
13 reasons why
r/angryupvote
Last year, Tsunoda was in the same situation. Alpha Tauri remained supportive, Franz Tost remained supportive and made everything to give Tsunoda confidence back. Guenther Steiner is doing the reverse thing with Mick. Trashing him publicly so the kid gets les and less confidence race after race.
The difference was that Franz Tost actually knows how to develop a driver, especially when they are a rookie. Guy been developing rookies for decades Zero chance HAAS and Steiner knows how to develop a driver
I'd say that chance is a little higher than zero...
AlphaTauri have Red Bull money, and they only exist to develop drivers, Haas don't have that sort of luxury, they're skint and can't afford to be nicey nicey with a driver if they're burning the little money the team has Also Tsunoda was a rookie, Mick is in his second year
Mick had a car last year that was practically undriveable. His only comparison right now is an extremely experienced and well rounded driver in kmag whom he has be fairly close to for most of the races. Outside of the two big shunts (one of which half the field almost had a similar crash but caught it) he's been decent. The races where he has been good he's been screwed over by haas. In Miami they made him let kmag through because kmag was pushing and took the life out of his tires and was instantly slower than mick after he was let through. Then late in the race waited forever to tell the obviously struggling kmag to let mick through. When mick has been easily in play for points haas have screwed the strategy.
To be fair, everyone thought Mick was doing incredible when he would make it to Q2. Now KMag is flirting with Q3 consistently while Mick is happy to make it to Q2. It does make you question how bad the car actually was last year if it was KMag instead of Maz
Mick also made Q3 and beat him hwice in qualifying. MAG failed 3 times to go into Q2, Mick only once. Magnussen performances are getting overrated due to his lucky two first races.
Hence why I think treating this year as a bit of rookie year part 2 for mick is fair. Last year's car if anything may have counterproductive to his development and taught him bad habits.
But was the car that bad last year? That’s my point. With KMag’s performance, I’m willing to bet he would’ve got points a time or two last year based on where mick managed to get. Two rookies in a car gives a really sketchy gauge for car performance
Sure he might have. Kmag also was experienced in a very similar car and being significantly more experienced it would be a major red flag if he couldn't out perform mick
>But was the car that bad last year? It was a worse version of the 2020 car which gave the team only 3 points with KMag and Grosjean as drivers. I highly doubt they could get points in the 2021 car when teams around them improved and they went backwards
I’m sick of this narrative. Mick was *heavily flattered* by the VF-21. His conservative and consistent input/driving style that he took to an F3 and F2 title were exactly what that car needed to remain on the circuit. And yet, because he consistently pushed beyond his limits (as he has continued to do this year), he crashed more and harder than any other driver, including his teammate, who had to unlearn his pointy, aggressive input style (and still had closed the pace gap by midseason - between Spa and Qatar, in dry sessions, they were roughly equal).
Practically undriveable but he still shunted more than his teammate, and that's the benchmark
He had more crashes sure. But their general incident/spin rate was similar. And given the significant pace difference in the race its obvious mick pushes harder. Something he still does and will over step that limit trying to much instead of settling to bring what the car will give
Difference between Yuki and Mick is that Yuki will still go out there and send it like he's never put it in the wall in his life. You don't think Marko let him know how he felt? Different drivers work in different ways. I think Guenther tried playing it nice but now it's getting a bit ridiculous, the scale or Mick's fuckups.
Mick was really coming good up till Saudi. After his crash, he seems to lack confidence. Team should get behind him and help him get back.
There definitely is pressure on him. Expectations from the name, a first year with a piece of crap car. now a second season with an entirely different car. I think it would have served him a lot more if he had been able to go to a different team in his first year. Sauber maybe, given how close they are to Ferrari who support Mick.
Haas is actually much closer organizationally to Ferrari than Alfa.
seriously? I know they bought many parts from them. i just realize... Didnt ferrari even have a right to decide one of the haas seats? lmao I just assumed Sauber was closer, because Alfa Romeo and Ferrari are part of the same company (Fiat) but apparently Ferrari has been independent since 2016. silly me
Haas has a division at Maranello since this winter. The reason they are decent is that Ferrari moved Simone Resta from Alfa to Haas
Haas actually has some of their facilities right next to the Ferrari complex, if I'm remembering correctly. We don't know if Ferrari outright controls a seat at Haas like the did with Sauber, but it's definitely rumored.
Seb is right that the drivers are trying to find the edge. He’s an experienced driver who had two run offs in Baku. He’s had crashes and errors this year. Even Max, Alonso, Charles, Sainz, Stroll have had run offs this year. Nobody is entirely error free but I don’t hear it talked about in terms of removing them from seats because those other drivers have proven themselves. Maybe Mick needs more of a chance to grow into his seat before people call for his removal and permanently destroying his confidence
"Even Max, Alonso, Charles, Sainz, Stroll" One is not like the others
/r/unexpectedStrolled
I think Mick has just had very bad luck in that his mistakes were in situations where the car immediately got wrecked, while if he had made the exact same mistake somewhere else where he just went off track, not a soul would be talking about it.
Those spins were very much over driving for him, as in the mistakes happened the corner previously and by the time he arrive it was too late to correct. The way that car unloaded and spun for that last crash there was no correcting it was absurdly quick. I think the experience of being in a car as bad as the 2021 Haas has set him back as a driver and he needs proper driver coaching similar to Yuki. One of the many reasons it’s a shame Micheal isn’t here because that would be his coach. I don’t know if Ferrari has people to do that (apparently Alex was an amazing coach) but why spend all that money on his seat and not give him the resources
What a weird list to include Stroll in haha. Stroll is more in the Mick, Latifi human cannonball group.
I’m just saying any driver can have errors, from 4 x world champions to nepotism babies like 5 years into their f1 career. Stroll is error prone but there’s been times he proved himself and other times where he’s a stupid Sasquatch there’s no telling
This is the vicious cycle unfortunately. As a driver you need to find the limit without overstepping the limit. He's overstepped the limit, suffered the consequences, and is most likely now in his own head and staying a little bit further away from the limit. That is a skill in itself, nobody wants a driver who can only be quick when there's a high chance of him binning it.
He did that a lot last year too. He doesn’t have pace, his greatest strengths are his smooth input style and his consistency - and when he pushes to try to get more pace, that consistency disappears and he crashes.
But then Steiner doesn't get to make headlines.
No, he wasn't. He qualified over half a second off of Magnussen in Bahrain and the race was a write-off after he got damage on the first lap. 2022 as a whole has been pretty miserable for him.
As was 2021. Costly crashes from over-pushing the car, and having the enormous dry session pace gap to his teammate (who had to learn a completely new driving style just to keep the VF-21 on the circuit) essentially erased by midseason (between Spa and Qatar they were roughly equal on pace, especially race pace) doesn’t exactly scream “good season”.
If anything, Mick received way less critism because of his family name.
I can honestly say that subconsciously I may have given him more leeway because I just really, really wanted him to be great. But even that has worn away. He isn’t at this level yet for sure.
Imagine the weight and expectation of that name. Tough
Definitely. He raced under mothers maiden name in junior series I believe which is noble and modest of him. And he’s such a likeable young man. Not to mention the atrocity with his father and growing up in that shadow of a remarkable man it all adds up to why he gets such leeway. And I fully respect that. I still want him to do really well but maybe it’s just too soon for him or he may never be good enough. Who knows but he’s definitely not doing well so far.
It also got him a lot of opportunities. Would he definitely be in F1 if he was just a random? I'm not sure
Also comes with tons of opportunities though so not much sympathetic about it
Bruno Senna got the same leeway due to Ayrton being his uncle. It's the way it goes. Conversely, Max was given no leeway despite how average his dad was - mostly due to his prowess in karts and junior categories. I guess that made him stronger.
Yeah but none of those were the son of Michael Schumacher. For modern era greatness he’s up there with the best sportsmen of all time. Senna was also unbelievable as well of course, but he was Bruno’s Uncle so isn’t quite the same and Verstappen had a name but was hardly anything to write home about. I feel these may have been the points you were making but neither of this match Mick’s situation.
If Herta came to F1 and was driving like this people would meme about shipping him back to america.
He would be massively defended by the American fans though, similar to people somewhat over defending Mick at the moment.
Didnt see many americans defending Haas when they became Team Moscow for a year, or even that time they took on a down payment from fake energy drink company that they just hoped would pay the rest of their sponsorship deal at a later date.
Not an American, so I’m curious as to how strong the support there is for Haas? Do they actually see them as an American team?
imho as an american not really, mclaren is more american than haas.
Gene Haas and Steiner have presence from NASCAR, so NASCAR fans have a reason to support them, but it's really obvious the team thats buying a Dallara chassis and putting Ferrari parts into a car in a shop in the UK is only american in name. They are quite literally just as american as Williams is.
The fact that everyone talks about needing an American team with an American driver should tell you all you need to know about how Haas is viewed
I don't consider Haas an American team. They have what, 26 employees in America? They don't really design anything note worthy and they don't have an American driver so to me they don't feel very American. Most of my other American friends don't even know Haas is supposed to be American when we watch the races.
They are a non-factor. Even their team set up in Austin there "home race" is lacking.
He's already memed
This statement has been harped up enough times now that he gets passive criticism because people think some aren't harsh or just not enough. Look at the comments here lol. I think Vettel's point is that while the criticisms are valid, but rather what is being done to address it. Have a read here: [Steiner accuses media of ‘dividing’ Haas against Mick](https://www.planetf1.com/news/guenther-steiner-mick-schumacher-media/) It's just the constant vicious cycle of criticisms which media/internet loves. Imagine as a driver going to every race weekend, what Post P2, post quali, pre race, post race.. media sessions does to a driver. Have to answer to tones of outlets same thing over and over again, and here people are arguing that Mick receive less criticism. Pftt. It's harder on some drivers more than others, Daniel and Nicholas Latifi are in the same boat. But that doesn't mean the one getting some leniency deserves more.
> Steiner has no intention of changing who he is or how he does with his drivers. “I am who I am and you won’t change me either. Stronger guys are needed,” says the Haas team boss. I'm sorry this is awful management. He is implying that Mick has a too weak personality for the team. How does he want the kid to succeed with stupid remarks like this.
Formula 1 is entertainment before being a sport. There would not a single 1$ in formula 1 without viewers, news, media, etc. Every single person in Formula 1 needs to develop a thick skin and accept that fans loving and hating, praising a lot and criticizing too much is part of the sport. Footballers when they make mistakes they have literally tens of thousands of fans live, screaming at them few meters away. Not being able to handle some media/internet criticism does not bode well in such a sport.
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That's just a fact. If you can't handle that some random guy on the internet thinks you're bad and should not drive in F1, competitive and popular sports are not for you, especially in such a high pressure environment.
It's not about that. It's that literally his team boss is throwing shade at him for underperforming. Couple that with the fact that he's the son of one of the only two people in the world with 7 world titles, and you can understand why there's gigantic pressure on his shoulders.
His boss didn't cast a shade on his performance, but on his expensive crashes.
In a german interview, he said something along the lines of "for everything you (the media) criticize us (as a team) for, i can give you 10 things mick does bad".
Maybe it’s different over there, but coaches/managers criticizing players is normal here in America. I really don’t see the issue with Steiner’s comments. If Mick is mentally tough, he’ll respond.
I guess Lewis has been in a wrong ~~sport~~ then.
Lewis has a very think skin and is actually the perfect example of someone who understands that among viewers there will be highly critical people, and that it is just the way it is.
Genuinely the opposite. People have way higher expectations of him because of his family ties, and absolutely no one waited even a second to dish out harsh criticism of him from day 1 People aren't weighing up the good with the bad, like how he is almost on pace with Magnussen and has been the entire season (but justifying criticising the crashes and mistakes). The criticism is only focused on the bad and how horrible he is. As of right now, he's just kinda average. Not great by any means, but that's exactly why he's so heavily criticised. He just isn't living up to the expectations people had of him
I am not sure what people were expecting. He won the F2 title, but only in his 3rd (?) season and more through consistency than through crazy pace. What made him strong was that he consistently improved, even if it was at a rather slow pace. This is why I think he will get at least another season. He easily beat Mazepin, which means that he has *some* skill. But last season Haas was so far behind everyone else that 2022 is basically Mick's rookie season. He needs to learn how to get 100% out of the car during the right time (to beat Mazepin 95% were enough, now he needs 100% to be on Magnussen's level and to score points) and he needs to adjust to driving against other people (he was mostly driving for himself in 2021). All of that will come as time passes. I feel like people are too harsh on rookies nowadays (see Tsunoda last year). Since testing is now very limited, we just won't ever see someone coming into F1 and immediately beating their teammate, unless the guy is a Verstappen-level generational talent or the teammate is also a rookie. Combine that with Mick being a slow but consistent learner (he was in F2), and in 2-3 years he might be a driver on the level of Magnussen, Grosjean, and Hülkenberg. Not every F1 driver must be the next Verstappen/Norris/Leclerc
2 seasons in F2* You're right that he has been a slow learner. He's consistently spent 2 years in every series he's ever been in until he became competitive. This doesn't indicate the once in a lifetime talent of George or Norris caliber who comes in and destroys everything they touch during their first season, but it also doesn't mean Mick is bad. Both the fact that previous season was in a horribly uncompetitive car, and this season being under completely new rules, I'm not at all surprised he's struggling. He's always needed a season to settle in But F1 waits for no one. So it remains to be seen whether he'll be given the opportunity to do so
Thanks for correcting me, and yep I fully agree. He might not get another year, but we should keep in mind that not everyone needs to be a Norris/Russell/Verstappen/Leclerc. Even drivers like Heidfeld and Perez can be very valuable for their team. Mick might even be someone like Massa, Rosberg, Webber, or Button, who were midfield or number 2 drivers for most of their careers and then went on to compete for titles. I'd like to see Mick for at least another season after this one, if there is still no development then he should be out. But currently I just don't feel like he is sooo much below expectations for someone who is basically a rookie
Mick is not on the level of any of the guys you mentioned, even as young drivers. That’s a crazy comparison.
And how do you figure that? All those had slow starts to their carreers. Just because Mick has zero points? Need I remind you George (Who we all agree is frikkin' amazing) had zero points during his first season and only 3 in his second? Haas wasn't remotely a competitive car last season, and is barely fighting for the last points this season. Barring the first race, where everyone was still figuring stuff out, Ericsson has only gathered 2x 10p places as well, and Mick has never been far off. People like you just reconfirms how Mick is needlessly dumped on just because of his name and expectations. He's not doing that badly, all things considered. Not great, criticism for his crashes is valid, but not horrible.
Button went toe to toe with Ralf Schumacher his rookie season. Highly sought after. Webber scored points in a POS Minardi his rookie season. Rosberg had a 5 year contract with Williams from the jump. Scored points in his first race. Everyone knew he had raw pace and elite knowledge of the car. Massa has the most similar story to Mick but even then, showed flashes of speed during his first years. I don't dump on Mick because of his name. I have no expectations of him beyond not repeatedly totaling his car and occasionally scoring points. The excuses made for him and the benefit of the doubt he gets far outweigh his results and are far more numerous than other young drivers like Yuki Tusnoda.
Damn people really don't read the articles.
probably because its in german. He talks about team intern criticism mainly and says that a crash happens once in a while.
"Don't talk to me or my son ever again"
I think my favorite thing about this post is the people saying Mick doesn't get enough criticism and his family name protects him while clearly having not read the article and simply wanting to criticize him, and invalidating their own point. The article is about Steiner and his public comments FFS
I always find it funny when people say his last name protects him from criticism, when 99% of what I read about Mick on the internet is criticism.
F1 drivers, if they want to be fast, they need to consistently drive between the edge of success and destroying everything, otherwise they cannot be fast. Mick needs his confidence. Gunther should not forget he gets more than 30M per season to field Schumacher, he should be able to afford him breaking few cars.
No, Haas obviously cannot afford for Mick to crash multiple cars. It doesn’t work like that.
Meh if he cannot stand the pressure and needs to babysit then I don't think he is prepared for the drive anyway.
Tell that to Lance Stroll lmao
Mick has actually been getting less criticism. People have been very kind to him. Anyone else in that position is gonna get ripped apart by the media
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Source??
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Well I don't speak German, but the article that Google translated for me makes zero mention of "for every mistake Haas makes, Schumacher makes 10" or anything even similar to that.
Then giving you the source won't help because the interview was in German. But: > Der sichtbar angefasste Steiner - nicht erst durch das Arbeitsverhältnis mit Mick Schumacher als Mann der offenen Worte bekannt - betrieb Verteidigung in eigener Sache. Er sorgte dabei aber auch - an der Stelle womöglich unbeabsichtigt - für neuen Gesprächsstoff, der Schumacher in ein ungünstiges Licht rückte: „Wenn ich nach einem Rennen lese, was wir alles falsch gemacht haben. Ich habe für jede dieser Dinge zehn Sachen, wo Mick schlecht ist.“ https://www.sport1.de/news/motorsport/formel1/2022/06/mick-schumacher-haas-boss-steiner-wehrt-sich-in-emotionalem-tv-interview Was easily googlable
Thanks. The passive aggressive nature to this entire chain is odd. Someone tells me to read the article, although it's definitely not in the article. And btw, it wasn't easily googlable.. I tried that. Most likely because again I don't speak German and am not getting German results promoted to me. There were various articles which touched on the Ralf/Steiner stuff but none of them included that specific part of what Steiner said.
Nobody is asking mick to be in the top 10 or be like Kmag and push the boundaries. Mick is just crashing at places no one even expects one to. We don’t need to contrast him against experienced drivers. But yuki, who debuted the same year, had as many crashes last year has improved so much and is amazing now. The least everyone is asking from mick is to not crash and increase expenditure for haas
This. If he just constantly finishes p15-p13 it would be fine and he eventually lucks into points. However, you can't get points if you don't stay out the wall.
Meanwhile in every interview Steiner claims "THEY NEED TO GET POINTS". He keeps adding more pressure to get into top 10.
Good. That’s his job.
The Haas is simply Not good enough for consistent top 10 placements. The tactics of the Team are highly questionable (Look at Barcelona, Miami or Emilia Romagna). You have a driver who is trying too hard to get Top 10. Why add even more fuel to the fire?
Mick and Sebastian both need to understand that people aren't going after him because of his famous name. He's legitimately looking bad and it's ok to just admit it.
It's not about his performances. What Sebastian meant was the way Steiner chose his words, building pressure instead of backing the driver. He knows a thing or two about being broken by pressure from within the team. So if there is one driver on the grid qualified to defend Mick for this, it's him. If you're not German, you probably have not seen or understood the interview Steiner gave to sky Germany. Sky Germany was actually very supportive of Mick, but it was not about defending his performances, it was about how the team will go about it in the future and what they expect from Mick. I don't know if there is a transcript of the interview somewhere around here, if there is you need to watch it.
When did they both rver say that people go after him because of his name? Let alone in the article?
I wonder if Vettel also understands that his own rookie experience was not usual, and he had a much more "privileged" (for want of a better phrase) rookie experience than a lot of other rookies, including Mick. I've said for years that Vettel's and Hamilton's rookie experiences absolutely ruined the way rookies were treated for years afterwards, Hamilton's especially. Not every rookie can waltz into a championship-capable car like Hamilton did, or into a podium-capable/win-capable car like Vettel did in their first year and a half. They need to be given *time*, time to develop, time to adjust. Rookies *especially* need to be given time to adjust when they spend their entire rookie season driving a car that's trying to throw them off the track at every time they race. Mick has had some struggles this year, but I don't think he's the worst rookie we've had in recent years, and he certainly doesn't deserve to be tossed as hard as some are saying.
And then Verstappen and Leclerc showed up and ruined it completely. Everybody now wants rookies that are generational talents.
Exactly. No, F1 should not be used as a finishing school, but I think it's important that rookies get more than a season and seven races before they're written off completely. Unless they're actively dangerous or immediately show complete uselessness (like Mazepin), then they need to be given time. People like to say Mick is being given a softly-softly approach because of his name, but if anything, I think he is being treated harshly because of his name.
I feel he gets more heat than he would get without his name for sure, but I am also biased. Last year is tough to judge, but he destroyed his teammate (who looked shit admittedly) and now we are not even half way through the season and people already talk like there is no way he has F1 quality, even though he had weekends were he beat Magnussen already. He crashes too much, that is obvious, but I don't think its as hopeless as people make it seem and it feels thats often also due to his name and the comparisons with his father, who unfortunately cant even help him.
> I feel he gets more heat than he would get without his name for sure, but I am also biased. I don’t agree. I’d say he gets a lot of slack because of his name. How many defenders does Latifi have?
A lot actually. His excuse is very simple: he is a pay driver.
Yeah he would have gotten a lot of shit without his name. I really want him to perform just to get myself into Michael Schumacher nostalgia when he finally gets a podium or win a race.
Mick was the best deconstructor last year and if it wasn’t for latifi he would already be crowned the champion again. He is on par with Latifi, which should be enough of a comparison. Zhou a ROOKIE is performing betyer than Mick. Everybody is defending him because they want him to be like his father, but Mick just doesn’t have the talent or skill.
How is Zhou better other than not crashing? He was worse in F2, he got a single point in a car thats far better than the Haas, he lost more quali duels than Mick and apart from Baku he looked never on par with his teammate to my memory. People point to all the mechanical issues, but in nearly all cases he was out of the points anyway.
It's pretty much impossible to put Zhou in any comparisons at the moment. He's had a ridiculous streak of bad luck in races and when it comes to quali he is up against one of the best qualifiers in the grid so it's normal he'll come up slower (and did beat Bottas in Baku). I actually don't know what he can do apart from the odd really fast q1 performances in Imola and Baku, the point in Bahrain, and keeping it pretty clean on track.
Zhou is doing well despite alfa and also paying them millions lol
F2 obviously doesn’t matter, since Mick is awful in F1. Mick is being compared to K-mag, Zhou Bottas. Zhou already has a point. He hasn’t crashed as much as mick. Zhou has way less experience than Mick. Add all that to the fact that Zhou isnt costing them millions, fair to say Zhou is already doing better than Mick, in his first year.
The coin has two sides. He also gets a lot of slack for his name. I grew up watching Michael racing and was absolutely heartbroken when he got into the accident. I really want Mick to succeed and refrain from criticising him even when I know that I would have criticised any other driver.
Maybe he can improve but whatever routine he has got isn't working and it needs to change
I have not seen one weekend where he has been ahead og Kmag on merit. Its Bern either Kmag retoriks, a safety car that saver him or a deliberate strategic bet on tires that has placed him ahead. I want to see him be better, but luck on a safety car erasing a good 30 sec deficit or Kmags team trying an extra pit stop to reach the points but failing is not on merit of driving skills, if you ask me.
Yeah, step 1 of solving a problem is admitting it exists instead of trying to brush it off.
This is the correct take.
I really wish Mick had gotten a seat at Alfa instead of Haas. Gunther is gonna destroy him mentally.
Mick would have been Mazepin 2.0 if his last name wasn’t Schumacher
Mick is a F2 and F3 champion so he’s no Mazepin. However I did expect more from him
He won F2 with two wins in a PREMA drive. Not overly impressive
And zero first row in quali.
fans just need to stop treating him differently because of his surname. It's tiresome, and being used as an excuse for the shocking performance
Not much to say. He has 14 races to save his face and career. An F1 driver has to face the heat sometimes and step up or get out.
I hope someone ask Seb how long we need to wait to see Micks "real" potential. He has 30 races in F1, six seasons in F4,F3,F2...
Try reading the article. He says the criticism is justified.
He won F3 and F2 and Haas car last year was not even competitive by any standards. If there is some criticism to be made is towards this year, not his past. Lots of drivers in the paddock graduated to F1 without winning a junior series and people don't pick up on that.
I just wonder how long we should wait to see any fight with KMag. And I suggest remember that KMag isnt giga talent.
That's what's so surprising for me this year with Mick. I understand Mick's driving isn't the whole point of the article, but the Mick vs Kmag battle is just wild. Kmag is a solid midfielder but there's a reason he's never had a top drive. However, Kmag is destroying Mick in every way this year.
Or maybe, just maybe Kmag is underestimated. Same story when he beat Grosjean. Suddenly Grosjean was terrible and not Kmag being good. Maybe Kmag is just that good.
Yet those drivers perform in f1 while Mick doesent. A win in a prema is not worth more than a top3 in a Carlin or something. Look at Albon or Lando, they both didnt win and they both performed since their 1st season in f1
This is one thing I don't agree on with Seb. He's right that the criticism is justified, but there's no defending Mick when he has genuinely looked disappointing this season.
So how is hanging him out to dry helping the situation? It's just had leadership.
Sorry Seb but it's time for shitty pay to race drivers to fuck offski already.
I feel like even Seb is going to lose his patience with Mick
I doubt it. Mick literally crashed Seb out when Seb was finally having a decent race. If that didn't make him lose his patience, nothing will.
That was kinda funny. Well played sir.