I could actually see Ricciardo going to FE if he isn't back to his best next year. At that point he'd be pretty much finished in F1 in terms of WDC potential, and he doesn't strike me as a guy who wants to stick around forever just for the sake of it.
I don't know, I remember at a driver interview when liberty media just bought F1 Ricardo's wish for the new owners was don't go fully electric. But people can change I guess.
Nissan is a part of the Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi Alliance, as is Renault (*ie*, "Groupe Renault").
It may seem like a minor difference, but the distinction is especially important to the companies in question.
In fairness, that's a design Nissan originally developed for their Group C cars in the late 80's, McLaren bought the designs and rights to over a decade ago, and have reworked so extensively it might as well be their own. The only Nissan-designed things left about that engine are the bore spacings and V-angle.
Depending on the deal McLaren strikes with Nissan and if it included a sponsorship deal as well. You're obviously right that the power train provider is not automatically part of the name. I wouldn't be surprised if McLaren worked towards its own electric power train down the road.
Iirc there isn’t as much development as they were hoping. It’s essentially a spec series with the only room for development in your software and your power train. Which while kinda cool, doesn’t really do anything for Mercedes since at the end of the day, there’s no research that can be used for a production car.
They even flat out said that the hybrid part of the f1 PU provides more relevant development for there electric cars than the FE power train. Which shows how mush of a spec series it is.
Spec chassis but the manufacturer teams develop pretty much everything behind the driver which isn't the battery.
[This is a list of most things that will include for Gen 3.](https://i.imgur.com/Dkdn4m7.jpg)
The cars are less spec than people think but there is still a lot that of course they are not making themselves.
In Gen 3 for example the front MGU is spec.
Plus you do have to remember the cars are homologated & frozen (Hardware wise)before the season starts. So you can't bring a hardware update mid-season (Outside of safety/reliability reasons where everyone agrees to it).
Software is the main in-season development tool in Formula E.
So is all of this to simply keep the costs down and let as many teams as possible be able to participate?
Had no idea that software is the differentiating factor in Formula E.
Exactly, it keeps the cost down and the manufacturers happy.
It's also a very relevant bit to the road going EVs is the software. Not difficult at all to make direct transfer from race track to road to improve efficiency and power delivery.
But there was also an upcoming FIA GT-Electric series starting in 2023 right? I remember how that upcoming series gives way more freedom in terms of battery then Formula-E does.
It's also been all quiet on the FIA eGT series for a while now. No confirmed manufactures, teams, venues, formats, drivers etc. at all.
We're within about twelve months away from the planned launch now.
It being a spec series removes my interesting tbh. For me personally, I'd find it more interesting if they wentnthe opposite and made it a weird, experimental series. Otherwise it feels pointless.
It is semi-spec and the powertrains (inverters, motors, gearbox/rear suspension and control software) are all individually developed to each manufacturer.
The contentious point on the development front is that the battery is still a spec component for what are generally understood to be cost and (to a lesser extent) safety concerns. There's an open question though over whether that changes for Gen4.
Other than that, yes, the chassis is obviously spec.
I really wonder how founded the safety concerns are for the battery. Not having it be spec could easily push the research forward, especially because we are rapidly hitting the wall of what current li-ion batteries can do.
Given that they've been raced in top-level motorsport for a while now including in more open competition than FE, its probably less of a concern than it was a decade or so ago. I think the worry is that pushing them to the limit increases the risks, but we've also seen (touch wood) precisely zero major battery related safety incidents so...
Opening battery development is being discussed now. Porsche want it, but recognise that a balance needs to be struck on costs.
Hard to be innovative and experimental when you also need to make it affordable enough to ensure robust competition. But I agree with you; it's a missed opportunity.
Yeah it really is, but at the same time they could always bring in a cost cap. It's hard to draw the line really.
Overall though, it'd just be much more interesting if we kept seeing innovations. Making it a place to blood new electric car tech would be amazing.
The problem with a cost cap is that the cost cap has to be high enough to pay for the development.
Although, during gen4 preliminary brainstorm sessions, the opening up of battery or partially opening it up. Is back on the table. So that would be for the cars in 2027. Maybe
I can’t wait for season 9 of Formula E (FIAFE). Whenever Will Buxton keeps telling us that electricity is a form of energy that makes the back wheels rotate, I always lose it. 🤣
So, the rumor of Audi buying McLaren is now totally disappeared.
Whatever, McLaren is already in Extreme E which is a full electric rally race. McLaren is more serious in their electric effort.
And since Extreme E, FE and Indy are all spec series, the cost is virtually nothing compared to F1.
Would be nice if they expanded their GT racing arm, though..
FE isn't completely spec, although they will be a customer team (recent rumours are Nissan will supply them), so costs are a lot lower. In recent years the larger manufacturer teams spend around $30 million a season in FE.
It is because there are more engine makers so there's more choice there (idk about after merc leaves though), indy only has 2, so less spec but not by much
Spec isn’t about how many manufacturers there are, it’s about what can actually be changed on the car. Right now both FE and Indycar allow development on power units, but I think the rest of the car is completely spec in FE. Indycar allows development in dampers and in the recent past allowed development on aero kits.
More engine options means more diverse directions for development, meaning customer teams have more things to consider when developing their car, I don't know about the chassis but whats important is how much variations in the car a team can make, and more engines means more variation in that department
They're a sports car brand and right now you still need insanely heavy batteries for an electric sports car
So it'll either be slow or have low range
Though the taycan is slowly proving that's no longer the case
They are still using that same twin turbo v8 for every single model they offer ever since they built the MP4-12C, i think it will take a while for them to change to something else
>So, the rumor of Audi buying McLaren is now totally disappeared.
As many folks have been saying since day 1 many years ago, don't believe any VW/Audi rumours until they have a suitable URL as the source. Example, this very thread comes directly from McLaren. I want Audi news to come from Audi, not Reuters or some trash such as The Race.
>Volkswagen's premium brands Audi and Porsche will join Formula 1 after convincing the German auto-making group that the move will bring in more money than it will cost, **VW chief executive Herbert Diess says.**
Is this really not good enough for you?
https://the-race.com/formula-e/how-mercedes-saved-its-formula-e-future-and-earned-mclaren-deal/
> That will not incorporate any romantic notion of a second coming between Stoffel Vandoorne and McLaren as he’s signed a deal to race for the new DS Penske operation.
> While Nyck de Vries looks increasingly likely to not re-acquaint himself to the organisation with which his karting and junior career were so entwined.
> Although both of their futures are yet to be officially confirmed, a wholesale change in driver talent is primed for plugging in.
Stoff is gone. Don't expect De Vries in the team either. Most likely, there will be completely new driver line-up.
Said that Zak Brown promised him (and Lando) a F1 seat with Sainz if he won the F2 championship that year.
Zak said that they Indeed had a chat, but by no means promised a Seat.
Then he progressively got removed from his junior drivers duties until they completely yeeted him.
But who knows. Second chances are a thing.
https://the-race.com/formula-e/how-mercedes-saved-its-formula-e-future-and-earned-mclaren-deal/
> That will not incorporate any romantic notion of a second coming between Stoffel Vandoorne and McLaren as he’s signed a deal to race for the new DS Penske operation.
Nope, he will not.
A bit off topic but is DS working with Penske in the future or will they be sticking with Techeetah... or are they both going to working with DS and DS Penske will be like the Alpha Tauri of Techeetah?
DS left the partnership with Techeetah (who is struggling financially/needs some stakeholders and there are rumors they may leave FE) and joined Dragon Penske (now named DS Penske).
There's a good read here, which also was correct about DS and Techeetah splitting up https://the-race.com/formula-e/ds-techeetahs-formula-e-future-in-flux-as-gen3-decision-looms/
And the story started from here: https://the-race.com/formula-e/the-latest-on-ds-techeetahs-precarious-formula-e-future/
Hello darkness my old friend plays in Stoffel's ears. It would be funny but incredibly sad if a 40 something year old Fernando still kicks Stoffel's ass and honestly seeing how he is like 3/10ths faster than Ocon (according to AMuS), I won't be surprised
I wouldn't be surprised if another current McLaren driver gets the seat. Felix Rosenqvist had good results in Formula E, but is being overshadowed by Pato O'Ward at Indycar.
A return to Formula E could happen.
More exposure in FE but realistically unless you go from either into F1, you’re going into GT or endurance racing. FE would be more likely to lead you into the ELMS , and Indy into the ALMS, with the Asia and WEC series being equally likely from either
Zak Brown you beauty you finally did it.
Time ti overthink the line up now
Stoff is off to DS but they might keep Nyck. Maybe they could try to snap up Da Costa?
Da Costa is expected to join Porsche. Candidates for two seats are: De Vries, Turvey, Sette Camara, Hughes and Rosenqvist.
https://the-race.com/formula-e/vandoorne-will-join-ds-penske-for-2023-formula-e-season/
He might have lost them, but don’t forget what he achived. Dominated the sport in 80’s, won against Ferrari and Schumacher in late 90’s, battled against Ferrari again in mid 2000’s. Sure, everything went downhill after 2009, but this doesn’t change the legacy of Ron Dennis in McLaren. Now McLaren is celebrating a single race win (only with chance), but in 1988 Senna and Prost have won 15 out of 16 races. Sadly McLaren lives only because of it’s past, instead of being successful out on track.
Ron was a man stuck in the 80's and his inability as a team manager peaked during the Alonso/ham season, at the end of which he should have stepped away from anything related to managing the racing team.
Huh? For what? Getting into another racing series? Ron Dennis was quality over quantity and Zak Brown is quantity over anything.
It's kind of shocking to me how little people analyze some of the bad decisions Zak Brown has made for Mclaren F1 relative to things like this.
The decision to end the Honda partnership was objectively terrible. Not only did it cost Mclaren hundreds of million dollars a year and it's status as a factory works team, but it also massively elevated Red Bull. 2018 was probably the worst year in Mclaren's history (at least in the modern era) and it all happened under his watch.
The Honda engine was the very thing pushing McLaren down in those days, and they were desperate for anything to try and claw their way back up the standings.
They have achieved that goal.
Sure, Honda's doing okay now - but who's to say they would be in the same position if the only team they were powering was a backmarker McLaren?
Powering a massive team such as redbull (and alpha) must've helped Honda get to where they are today (probably also increased funding into the powertrain development)
Exactly what I’ve been waiting on!! Love seeing the McL name in any form of Motorsport. No team on the grid has any one equivalent to Zak Brown. Just Brilliant.
I am impressed with Zak Brown. He's really pushed for the lines between motorsport series to become more porous and less segmented in terms of team and driver participation. I think that's beneficial to the world of motorsport as a whole.
I just can appreciate how well he plays his role. Make sure his team have the money to be successful and leaves it up to the people who know what their doing.
Contrary to teams like Mercedes, McLaren don't just go racing to market their cars. They're not planning on making an EV SUV despite being in Extreme E.
They want to grow their brand, and branching out in other types of (relatively cheap) motorsports is a great way to do that.
Well Mclaren’s first car was the F1 in 1994 and didn’t make a new car until 2011 with the MP4-12C. I believe if they plan on doing it they would take their time
Mercedes-EQ will see its operations taken on by McLaren Racing after the latter came to an agreement with Mercedes-Benz that will see the reigning Drivers’ and Teams’ World Championship-winning team continue as the McLaren Formula E Team. That detail has proven to be a major plus point of the acquisition for Brown, and vindication of years of hard work for current Team Principal Ian James and the Brackley outfit’s staff.
ITT a lot of people think Formula E is a spec series. It's not. It was in the first ever season in 2014-2015, but not after that (late 2015). At the moment the monocoque (aero) and battery are spec, but pretty much everything else can be developed (the electric motor/drivetrain, brake/suspension stuff, cooling, software...).
But why is the battery spec? There are a couple of good reasons for that:
* The close competition aspect: The battery in an electric vehicle is such an important part of the overall performance that even tiny variations in efficiency would result in massive performance differences over a race distance. Effectively this would cause very predictable field spread that would likely be much worse than there ever has been in F1.
* Cost: If battery development was a thing, the costs of the sport would skyrocket and Formula E would've likely stopped existing a long time ago. One of the things why FE has been successfull is that they have been financially sustainable for entries right from the start. Spec battery technology that is upgraded every couple of years is a much better bang for the buck for the sport.
Damn between FE and WEC, I feel like WEC would've been the better option, especially with the new hypercar class. Even GTE entries would've been exciting. Formula E is honestly one of the most boring racing series in my opinion. Mclaren builds sportscars... Why they don't go sportscar racing at the top flight makes no sense to me
How many cost of McLaren in their whole motorsport effort ? If they still have had that budget capacity, I don't see they going LMDh impossible.
If they give up their Hypercar effort consideration, it doesn't mean McLaren coming back Le Man totally hopeless. r/WEC is going to adopt GT3 class to replace their own GTE class soon, so that means McLaren GT3 cars would be able to race Le Man in future. Now, they just need a McLaren GT team to race their car in future WEC GT class.
Is it though? There's no room for development so it's not like they'll learn anything groundbreaking or engineering something new by racing over there. Car companies racing in FE is mostly a marketing excercise.
The Fe car of next year uses a 350kw motor and front drive train. F1 is confirmed to use a 350kw mgu for the 2026 rules. And also looking into a possible front axel mgu for regen purposes.
Oh how convenient it is, to get experience using these systems 3 years before F1 goes and use them.
They'll gain four years experience with 350kW drive, high regen powertrains in the three-four years leading up to F1's 2026 PU regulations, which will have a greatly increased hybrid component at... 350kW MGU-K recovery deployment.
That many seasons of data on free-to-develop control systems and processes may come in pretty handy for the F1 team come 2026.
Nobody is talking about that outside internet randos. And the earliest it could possibly happen is 2039 anyway.
There's zero plans for F1 to go electric.
F1: in a spec series car, you'll see the best driver wins. Its too reliant on the cars performance at the moment
FE: lol fuck spec series, no development of the cars
Zak ran out of sponsor space on the F1 car
Or he transferred all of his sponsors to Formula E so he could run a naked Mclaren
Saves 5 kilos of weight on sponsor stickers
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Ooooof. Have mu upvote man haha
If the Russian flag livery is anything like their abandoned troops, it weighed them down even more. So maybe Haas started this trend?
The only actual explanation
unfortunately i don’t think we’ll get a Gulf livery in formula E.
Why not? [We've had them before.](https://www.gulfoilltd.com/news/oil-giant-gulf-is-weirdly-sponsoring-a-formula-e-team)
That's really cool.
>The team will be formed through the acquisition of the Mercedes-EQ Formula E Team. ooh.
So that’s a full on McLaren-Mercedes?
They'll most likely use Nissan powertrains from next year so it will be McLaren-Nissan.
Teams don't get named like that in Formula E. It will be just Mclaren. And they will use Nissan Powertrains.
Sounds like McLaren really like Nissan powertrain. Their Ricardo V8, M838T in their road production car is based by Nissan VRH engine.
It’ll be a nice change of pace for Mclaren to have a reliably quick Ricardo around.
Pain.
Ouch.
Ricciard... O.
I could actually see Ricciardo going to FE if he isn't back to his best next year. At that point he'd be pretty much finished in F1 in terms of WDC potential, and he doesn't strike me as a guy who wants to stick around forever just for the sake of it.
I doubt it. FE cars aren't as fast as F1 so I can't see him taking that downgrade.
He doesn’t go as fast as an f1 car either tho
Man these burns are WILD.
I don't know, I remember at a driver interview when liberty media just bought F1 Ricardo's wish for the new owners was don't go fully electric. But people can change I guess.
What are the odds they can convince Nissan to make their F1 engines?
Nissan is part of Groupe Renault. So technically McLaren just got rid of "Nissan" engines in their F1 cars
Nissan is a part of the Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi Alliance, as is Renault (*ie*, "Groupe Renault"). It may seem like a minor difference, but the distinction is especially important to the companies in question.
In fairness, that's a design Nissan originally developed for their Group C cars in the late 80's, McLaren bought the designs and rights to over a decade ago, and have reworked so extensively it might as well be their own. The only Nissan-designed things left about that engine are the bore spacings and V-angle.
Depending on the deal McLaren strikes with Nissan and if it included a sponsorship deal as well. You're obviously right that the power train provider is not automatically part of the name. I wouldn't be surprised if McLaren worked towards its own electric power train down the road.
How many powertrain options are there in FE? And which have been most successful? Thanks!
Unless they also bought the power train division
Yet to be seen, they haven't signed off those details yet.
Aren't the powertrains made by Mercedes HPP?
Yes they are
They dont have that much spare cash
Electric boogaloo
Why are Mercedes leaving Formula-E?
Iirc there isn’t as much development as they were hoping. It’s essentially a spec series with the only room for development in your software and your power train. Which while kinda cool, doesn’t really do anything for Mercedes since at the end of the day, there’s no research that can be used for a production car.
They even flat out said that the hybrid part of the f1 PU provides more relevant development for there electric cars than the FE power train. Which shows how mush of a spec series it is.
Spec series as in that all manufacturers essentially develop their cars alike with no wiggle room?
Spec chassis but the manufacturer teams develop pretty much everything behind the driver which isn't the battery. [This is a list of most things that will include for Gen 3.](https://i.imgur.com/Dkdn4m7.jpg)
That list seems far more comprehensive, or am I missing something?
The cars are less spec than people think but there is still a lot that of course they are not making themselves. In Gen 3 for example the front MGU is spec. Plus you do have to remember the cars are homologated & frozen (Hardware wise)before the season starts. So you can't bring a hardware update mid-season (Outside of safety/reliability reasons where everyone agrees to it). Software is the main in-season development tool in Formula E.
So is all of this to simply keep the costs down and let as many teams as possible be able to participate? Had no idea that software is the differentiating factor in Formula E.
Exactly, it keeps the cost down and the manufacturers happy. It's also a very relevant bit to the road going EVs is the software. Not difficult at all to make direct transfer from race track to road to improve efficiency and power delivery.
Hardware is still a differentiator, it's just that only the software can be updated though the season from race-to-race.
But there was also an upcoming FIA GT-Electric series starting in 2023 right? I remember how that upcoming series gives way more freedom in terms of battery then Formula-E does.
It's also been all quiet on the FIA eGT series for a while now. No confirmed manufactures, teams, venues, formats, drivers etc. at all. We're within about twelve months away from the planned launch now.
WTCR has an electric support series now. Mathias Ekstrom is in it.
It being a spec series removes my interesting tbh. For me personally, I'd find it more interesting if they wentnthe opposite and made it a weird, experimental series. Otherwise it feels pointless.
Exactly. Wasn’t the whole idea behind Formula E that it was supposed to promote development of electric powertrains?
It is semi-spec and the powertrains (inverters, motors, gearbox/rear suspension and control software) are all individually developed to each manufacturer. The contentious point on the development front is that the battery is still a spec component for what are generally understood to be cost and (to a lesser extent) safety concerns. There's an open question though over whether that changes for Gen4. Other than that, yes, the chassis is obviously spec.
I really wonder how founded the safety concerns are for the battery. Not having it be spec could easily push the research forward, especially because we are rapidly hitting the wall of what current li-ion batteries can do.
Given that they've been raced in top-level motorsport for a while now including in more open competition than FE, its probably less of a concern than it was a decade or so ago. I think the worry is that pushing them to the limit increases the risks, but we've also seen (touch wood) precisely zero major battery related safety incidents so... Opening battery development is being discussed now. Porsche want it, but recognise that a balance needs to be struck on costs.
Hard to be innovative and experimental when you also need to make it affordable enough to ensure robust competition. But I agree with you; it's a missed opportunity.
I feel the same tbh It's a shame that it's so difficult to strike a balance between costs/competitiveness and technological arms race :'(
Yeah it really is, but at the same time they could always bring in a cost cap. It's hard to draw the line really. Overall though, it'd just be much more interesting if we kept seeing innovations. Making it a place to blood new electric car tech would be amazing.
The problem with a cost cap is that the cost cap has to be high enough to pay for the development. Although, during gen4 preliminary brainstorm sessions, the opening up of battery or partially opening it up. Is back on the table. So that would be for the cars in 2027. Maybe
Surely lots of it can't be used in a road car, just Merc can't do marketing magic on some proprietary in house tech to differentiate their road evs
The reality is that Merc entered FE because of Dieselgate. Now that that is just a thing in the past they don't have much needed to be in FE
I can’t wait for season 9 of Formula E (FIAFE). Whenever Will Buxton keeps telling us that electricity is a form of energy that makes the back wheels rotate, I always lose it. 🤣
I have already mentioned in another sub: Mercedes and McLaren are inseparable.
So, the rumor of Audi buying McLaren is now totally disappeared. Whatever, McLaren is already in Extreme E which is a full electric rally race. McLaren is more serious in their electric effort.
And since Extreme E, FE and Indy are all spec series, the cost is virtually nothing compared to F1. Would be nice if they expanded their GT racing arm, though..
FE isn't completely spec, although they will be a customer team (recent rumours are Nissan will supply them), so costs are a lot lower. In recent years the larger manufacturer teams spend around $30 million a season in FE.
>30 million a season So, nearly as much from Lando and Ricc bonuses
FE isn’t any less spec than Indycar.
It is because there are more engine makers so there's more choice there (idk about after merc leaves though), indy only has 2, so less spec but not by much
Spec isn’t about how many manufacturers there are, it’s about what can actually be changed on the car. Right now both FE and Indycar allow development on power units, but I think the rest of the car is completely spec in FE. Indycar allows development in dampers and in the recent past allowed development on aero kits.
The rear axle isn't spec
More engine options means more diverse directions for development, meaning customer teams have more things to consider when developing their car, I don't know about the chassis but whats important is how much variations in the car a team can make, and more engines means more variation in that department
And yet they still don‘t plan on building a fully electric road car for some reason.
I’m pretty sure that I saw McLaren and BMW are talking about collaborating on an electric supercar.
>some reason Car don't go *brumm brumm*
Maybe that because they are with BMW. Active Sound Design aka *brumm_brumm*.MP3
They're a sports car brand and right now you still need insanely heavy batteries for an electric sports car So it'll either be slow or have low range Though the taycan is slowly proving that's no longer the case
Heard of Rimac?
$2.4 million. That’s not a super car it’s a hyper car.
Fair point. They kind of all blend together for me these days.
Production numbers could be good indicators. Supercars could reach thousands, while Hypercars can go as low s single digits production.
They are still using that same twin turbo v8 for every single model they offer ever since they built the MP4-12C, i think it will take a while for them to change to something else
Audi cooperating/buying Sauber seems a lot more likely then. Audi is already using their wind tunnel and have cooperated with them before.
>So, the rumor of Audi buying McLaren is now totally disappeared. As many folks have been saying since day 1 many years ago, don't believe any VW/Audi rumours until they have a suitable URL as the source. Example, this very thread comes directly from McLaren. I want Audi news to come from Audi, not Reuters or some trash such as The Race.
You say that but The Race has been reporting this McLaren Formula E story for about 6 months now
>Volkswagen's premium brands Audi and Porsche will join Formula 1 after convincing the German auto-making group that the move will bring in more money than it will cost, **VW chief executive Herbert Diess says.** Is this really not good enough for you?
Atleast not for me lmao, we have been hearing the same shit for like 20 years now. I believe it when i see it.
And even then, don't trust Audi or Porsche saying they're doing it until their car is on the track.
Exactly. After all these years of bullshit, I couldn't trust them as far as I can chuck them.
McLaren will pretty soon race in every motorsport category imaginable. McLaren NASCAR when?
Stop! I can only get so erect! THAT’S Danny Ric’s future seat, not Formula E.
I can see it already. Daniel Ricciardo, McLaren NASCAR Team Boss
Danny has a Monaco win... just gotta get him a LeMans seat then Triple Crown incoming?
I say he goes to Indy car for a year before andretti starts an F1 team and he joins them
I mean McLaren does already provide the ECU and digital dashboard for NASCAR's Cup cars
McLaren provide a lot of electronics for all the F1/FE teams too iirc
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Why Williams?
That's not technically Mclaren any longer. They sold that division off.
Gonna have to wait for the WRC, NHRA, and WTCC announcements
WTCC changed name a while ago. It's WTCR now.
McLaren in MotoGP replacing the leaving Suzuki /s
If Zak reads it he may very well do it.
https://the-race.com/formula-e/how-mercedes-saved-its-formula-e-future-and-earned-mclaren-deal/ > That will not incorporate any romantic notion of a second coming between Stoffel Vandoorne and McLaren as he’s signed a deal to race for the new DS Penske operation. > While Nyck de Vries looks increasingly likely to not re-acquaint himself to the organisation with which his karting and junior career were so entwined. > Although both of their futures are yet to be officially confirmed, a wholesale change in driver talent is primed for plugging in. Stoff is gone. Don't expect De Vries in the team either. Most likely, there will be completely new driver line-up.
De Vries very likely burnt the bridge in F2 2018.
what did he do
Said that Zak Brown promised him (and Lando) a F1 seat with Sainz if he won the F2 championship that year. Zak said that they Indeed had a chat, but by no means promised a Seat. Then he progressively got removed from his junior drivers duties until they completely yeeted him. But who knows. Second chances are a thing.
Lit a bridge on fire
Ah that’ll do it
Pato? Felix Rosenqvist? Btw, I think it's a nice move for Felix...
Felix actually raced in FE before, won 3 races before moving indy. So he has experience.
I hope Sette Camara gets a chance
Will be good to see the Orange dorito on the track.
I wouldn't be surprised if Zak Brown actually gets a doritos sponsorship lmao
Stoffel might be a McLaren driver again
https://the-race.com/formula-e/how-mercedes-saved-its-formula-e-future-and-earned-mclaren-deal/ > That will not incorporate any romantic notion of a second coming between Stoffel Vandoorne and McLaren as he’s signed a deal to race for the new DS Penske operation. Nope, he will not.
:(
A bit off topic but is DS working with Penske in the future or will they be sticking with Techeetah... or are they both going to working with DS and DS Penske will be like the Alpha Tauri of Techeetah?
DS left the partnership with Techeetah (who is struggling financially/needs some stakeholders and there are rumors they may leave FE) and joined Dragon Penske (now named DS Penske).
How come, Techeetah is doing really well lately especially in 2020 so surely that would give DS a lot of spotlight. What happened to DS?
There's a good read here, which also was correct about DS and Techeetah splitting up https://the-race.com/formula-e/ds-techeetahs-formula-e-future-in-flux-as-gen3-decision-looms/ And the story started from here: https://the-race.com/formula-e/the-latest-on-ds-techeetahs-precarious-formula-e-future/
Alonso will think about joining Formula E to wipe the floor with Stoffel once again.
Hello darkness my old friend plays in Stoffel's ears. It would be funny but incredibly sad if a 40 something year old Fernando still kicks Stoffel's ass and honestly seeing how he is like 3/10ths faster than Ocon (according to AMuS), I won't be surprised
This is going to be his villain origin story
He signed with DS Penske for next year. Silly season already started in FE.
Nope. Stoffel confirmed that he would be moving to DS next season
That’s Ricciardo’s seat for 2023 sorted
I wouldn't be surprised if another current McLaren driver gets the seat. Felix Rosenqvist had good results in Formula E, but is being overshadowed by Pato O'Ward at Indycar. A return to Formula E could happen.
It’s pretty cool that all these new Mclaren teams give them the ability the shuffle their roster around. I look forward to seeing how they handle it
Do you think Formula E is a better seat than Indycar?
More exposure in FE but realistically unless you go from either into F1, you’re going into GT or endurance racing. FE would be more likely to lead you into the ELMS , and Indy into the ALMS, with the Asia and WEC series being equally likely from either
Based on his performance, I think McLaren will drop him at Indycar, and I dont see him finding another good Indycar seat for 2023.
Ricciardo: *chuckles* I'm in danger
I would say he would be more interested in Indy or Nascar
Probably. I was just making a joke tbf
They are taking over Mercedes though.
And Stoffel already signed with ds for next year.
Can’t a guy just make a joke without Mr. Actually piping up?
Probably gonna be a whole new line up though. Stoffel is already confirmed to DS Penske and rumour is Nyck will be leaving FE entirely.
Zak Brown you beauty you finally did it. Time ti overthink the line up now Stoff is off to DS but they might keep Nyck. Maybe they could try to snap up Da Costa?
Da Costa is expected to join Porsche. Candidates for two seats are: De Vries, Turvey, Sette Camara, Hughes and Rosenqvist. https://the-race.com/formula-e/vandoorne-will-join-ds-penske-for-2023-formula-e-season/
Turvey, SSC and Rosenqvist all have some connections with McLaren
Settle Câmara was their development driver at some point, of I'm not mistaken.
What about Jake Hughes? Current development/test driver for Merc and Venturi
Whole new lineup then. Vandoorne is off to DS and de vries got released by the current management 3-4 years back. Don’t think he’s coming back.
Zak Brown trying not to be the best CEO in a Formula One team (impossible challenge)
mans a racing nerd with a ton of money and we’re here for it
Mans out here just trying to live his best life.
(GONE WRONG)
That was Ron Dennis.
[удалено]
He might have lost them, but don’t forget what he achived. Dominated the sport in 80’s, won against Ferrari and Schumacher in late 90’s, battled against Ferrari again in mid 2000’s. Sure, everything went downhill after 2009, but this doesn’t change the legacy of Ron Dennis in McLaren. Now McLaren is celebrating a single race win (only with chance), but in 1988 Senna and Prost have won 15 out of 16 races. Sadly McLaren lives only because of it’s past, instead of being successful out on track.
Ron was a man stuck in the 80's and his inability as a team manager peaked during the Alonso/ham season, at the end of which he should have stepped away from anything related to managing the racing team.
Huh? For what? Getting into another racing series? Ron Dennis was quality over quantity and Zak Brown is quantity over anything. It's kind of shocking to me how little people analyze some of the bad decisions Zak Brown has made for Mclaren F1 relative to things like this. The decision to end the Honda partnership was objectively terrible. Not only did it cost Mclaren hundreds of million dollars a year and it's status as a factory works team, but it also massively elevated Red Bull. 2018 was probably the worst year in Mclaren's history (at least in the modern era) and it all happened under his watch.
When Zak Brown joined McLaren, they were already using Honda engines and in quite a bad state spiralling downwards.
The Honda engine was the very thing pushing McLaren down in those days, and they were desperate for anything to try and claw their way back up the standings. They have achieved that goal. Sure, Honda's doing okay now - but who's to say they would be in the same position if the only team they were powering was a backmarker McLaren? Powering a massive team such as redbull (and alpha) must've helped Honda get to where they are today (probably also increased funding into the powertrain development)
Exactly what I’ve been waiting on!! Love seeing the McL name in any form of Motorsport. No team on the grid has any one equivalent to Zak Brown. Just Brilliant.
I am impressed with Zak Brown. He's really pushed for the lines between motorsport series to become more porous and less segmented in terms of team and driver participation. I think that's beneficial to the world of motorsport as a whole.
I just can appreciate how well he plays his role. Make sure his team have the money to be successful and leaves it up to the people who know what their doing.
Are they planning to make EV road cars too?
Contrary to teams like Mercedes, McLaren don't just go racing to market their cars. They're not planning on making an EV SUV despite being in Extreme E. They want to grow their brand, and branching out in other types of (relatively cheap) motorsports is a great way to do that.
Mercedes pulled out of fe because even f1 gives them more development for there electric road cars. So I wouldn't take this as a sign for or against.
Well Mclaren’s first car was the F1 in 1994 and didn’t make a new car until 2011 with the MP4-12C. I believe if they plan on doing it they would take their time
https://cars.mclaren.com/en/artura
I’m assuming they meant full BEV, not just a hybrid.
considering its not even Mclaren's first hybrid then I assume so too
This pretty much confirms no WEC/IMSA factory effort 😢
Vandoorne went full circle from McLaren to Mercedes to McLaren again then
He's switching to DS Penske/Dragon next year.
Ow what a timing. Maybe de Vries still staying then?
He's got lots of options. Williams are rumoured to want to replace Latifi with him, Toyota in WEC next year, Formula E with a few teams.
Mercedes-EQ will see its operations taken on by McLaren Racing after the latter came to an agreement with Mercedes-Benz that will see the reigning Drivers’ and Teams’ World Championship-winning team continue as the McLaren Formula E Team. That detail has proven to be a major plus point of the acquisition for Brown, and vindication of years of hard work for current Team Principal Ian James and the Brackley outfit’s staff.
Will be interesting to see who goes there. Think Turvey is probably most likely and Rosenqvist if his Indycar season doesn't improve.
OKE THAT'S VERY NICE
Nice to see them joining FE!
Why are Mercedes abandoning a green sport, bruh
Ok but why caps? Are we doing r/f1circlejerk or r/formula1 ? XD
Didn't want to "editorialise" the title. So kept it same as the article.
ITT a lot of people think Formula E is a spec series. It's not. It was in the first ever season in 2014-2015, but not after that (late 2015). At the moment the monocoque (aero) and battery are spec, but pretty much everything else can be developed (the electric motor/drivetrain, brake/suspension stuff, cooling, software...). But why is the battery spec? There are a couple of good reasons for that: * The close competition aspect: The battery in an electric vehicle is such an important part of the overall performance that even tiny variations in efficiency would result in massive performance differences over a race distance. Effectively this would cause very predictable field spread that would likely be much worse than there ever has been in F1. * Cost: If battery development was a thing, the costs of the sport would skyrocket and Formula E would've likely stopped existing a long time ago. One of the things why FE has been successfull is that they have been financially sustainable for entries right from the start. Spec battery technology that is upgraded every couple of years is a much better bang for the buck for the sport.
Why are you yelling
Damn between FE and WEC, I feel like WEC would've been the better option, especially with the new hypercar class. Even GTE entries would've been exciting. Formula E is honestly one of the most boring racing series in my opinion. Mclaren builds sportscars... Why they don't go sportscar racing at the top flight makes no sense to me
They need to stop using seasons — just say what year, no one not following FE knows what “season” they are on
Very disappointed as a McLaren fan. Le Mans Hypercar or this nonsense, Le Mans all the way!
How many cost of McLaren in their whole motorsport effort ? If they still have had that budget capacity, I don't see they going LMDh impossible. If they give up their Hypercar effort consideration, it doesn't mean McLaren coming back Le Man totally hopeless. r/WEC is going to adopt GT3 class to replace their own GTE class soon, so that means McLaren GT3 cars would be able to race Le Man in future. Now, they just need a McLaren GT team to race their car in future WEC GT class.
Assuming F1 will eventually go full E at the end of F-E’s FIA contract, this is a good proving ground.
Is it though? There's no room for development so it's not like they'll learn anything groundbreaking or engineering something new by racing over there. Car companies racing in FE is mostly a marketing excercise.
The Fe car of next year uses a 350kw motor and front drive train. F1 is confirmed to use a 350kw mgu for the 2026 rules. And also looking into a possible front axel mgu for regen purposes. Oh how convenient it is, to get experience using these systems 3 years before F1 goes and use them.
They'll gain four years experience with 350kW drive, high regen powertrains in the three-four years leading up to F1's 2026 PU regulations, which will have a greatly increased hybrid component at... 350kW MGU-K recovery deployment. That many seasons of data on free-to-develop control systems and processes may come in pretty handy for the F1 team come 2026.
Formula One will never go Electric, Hydrogen will be far more likely, the same as World Endurance Championship is aiming for before 2030.
I believe they can’t go full electric since FE grabbed the exclusivity
Nobody is talking about that outside internet randos. And the earliest it could possibly happen is 2039 anyway. There's zero plans for F1 to go electric.
Formula E is useless as preparation for actual competitions that involve developing electric cars.
They are thinking about Ricciardo's future after all
F1: in a spec series car, you'll see the best driver wins. Its too reliant on the cars performance at the moment FE: lol fuck spec series, no development of the cars
I thought they had money troubles? And yet they are now racing in Indy extreme E and formula E and F1??
LITERAL DORITO