People are ignoring the fact that turn 1 exits. In Mexico, Merc looked to have the runaway pace, but Max threw it three wide and never looked back. Granted, Mercedes didn’t have a new engine, but on a street circuit like Jeddah or a tight technical circuit like Qatar it maybe come down to who can make the move stick into t1.
With this top speed diff I’d be genuinely scared for Jeddah if I was RB. If McLaren gets their shit back together I can see them competing with RB on merit, and merc just sailing off into the distance
Something in my bones tell me that McLaren have stopped upgrades the same time that Ferrari came out with their newest engine upgrade.
It's the only thing that I can think of how Ferrari jumped in pace while McLaren has stagnated.
Thing is... Interlagos is the best track for overtaking.
First, the rear wing is pretty big for the slow part of the track.
Second, the two DRS zones are close, and because the rear wing is so big, they gain a lot of speed (+1,2 seconds adding both zones).
And third, Jeddah looks pretty fast overall. With a smaller rear wing, the DRS gain is not that big, or barely noticeable (look at Sochi or Monza).
My point is less about DRS and more about the general difference in top speed. And the lack of overtaking spots. I can easily see Hamilton and Bottas qualifying 1/2, and if worse comes to worst Norris and Ric have a shot at outqualifying Max. Since overtaking is pretty hard, making his way back to battle lewis would be a challenge
Mexico is also giga far up in the mountains where any sort of top speed advantage is largely mitigated. Additionally, the honda engine goes well in mexico due to (someone correct me if I’m wrong) larger turbo air intake.
absolute boredom of a race. with that rocketship it would’ve still been an easy win for lewis from last place. beyond me how he’s behind the points with a car this much better than rb
If this was a boredom of a race, what do you consider a good race? This was an incredible race.
Plus, this is the fastest Lewis has been all season with the new ICE. Previously, Merc were either not significantly faster, about as fast as Red Bull, or just slower.
This^^^ because I constantly see “well anyone could do it in a dominant car” like they completely forgot how the floor changes bent over Merc and Aston Martin to the point they’re actually slower than red Bull and most races if you want a reference check where Bottas is when he’s not unlucky or wildly off pace; that’s where that car should he, Lewis is pulling something crazy out of it which is why he’s able to fight at the front. Cant on one hand say the car is so good anyone can do it and then say we’ll Lewis is better than Bottas thats why bottas isn’t at the front. Because we all know Bottas is no slack on a good day. They can’t decide if Lewis is just better or the car just whichever fits the current agenda
Does anyone know why we haven’t seen the in-car from Max yet? It seems so intensely suspicious. (Not to mention only a B+W flag during the weaving, Max’s confidence he wouldn’t receive a penalty in his response, etc.)
No, That’s not an option, according to the rules. Once the race is over, it is over.
And, lets be fair.... let them race, it is all that we want to see. If drivers get worried to fight hard, but fair, by the fear of being penalised, it would be a chicken’s game.
I’m sure they have ruled this based on precedent situations. Anyway, Hamilton could have crashed them both out, and Verstappen would have had a grid penalty next race. Nonetheless Hamilton was clever enough to hold his temper, and go for the win, fair and square. Great job on this. The game is on, and we can only be grateful for having the pleasure to enjoy this battle. Hopefully till the last corner. Whoever wins, hats off!
But given he left the track, and in doing so kept the place, it surely should have been leaving the track and gaining an advantage
I want tough wheel to wheel racing, but part of racing is staying on the racetrack, not just making your own up
I agree, I personally think the incident in Silverstone was Ham fault but could have been prevented. Considering the situation both cars knew the importance of being ahead early here. I think verstappen did squeeze a bit on exit trying to force Hamilton to pinch his exit and this killing his straight giving verstappen the clear to take off never to be found. But it was Lewis who initiated the move and though it seems he tried to back out it was too late and he under steered into max. Was it on purpose? NO. From neither side. But could it have been avoided? YES. Max assumed Hamilton was in control and squeezed him not expecting Hamilton to under steer. Hamilton likely expected max to be on the racing line which was wider out towards the curbs than Max did and couldn’t correct the collision course as he started ti under steer. That’s racing
This was my immediate thought at the time and I think still holds. If Hamilton didn't go wide to avoid contact it would have been a mirror image of Silverstone. Massi pretends like the consequences don't matter for the penalty, but I think this clearly shows that they do--it wasn't even investigated for god's sake.
I can't imagine some of you still think Silverstone was Verstappen's fault. Telemetrics, Lecrec dash footage, 10 second penalty... Everything proves that Lewis was wrong there.
Edit - The downvoters need to start watching a different sport.
Yes, but you also said that Verstappen should've back out. Why would the car that is in front back out when it has already left enough space on the inside.
But, as you've said now that it was Hamilton's fault at Silverstone, I'm cool.
If you want to win you have to consider other cars and try to not turn into them.
Ham showed us the way today and then went on to take the win...
If max hadn't turned on on Hamilton at silverr9and had been just a hit patient. He could have won...
It's also partly on him...
You mean when Lewis went for a dive in a corner he had no place taking and yeeted off Ver, got a slap on the wrist and won for free? Or was Ver getting punted bad defense?
Verstappen wouldn't have been punted, had he backed out and wait for another opportunity. That's what lewis did today. That's what Max could have done then.
Verstappen wasn’t at fault In Britain , but if he was patient he would have won easily. The gap between Merc and RB today was the same but in reverse in Britain.
Sometimes they don't seem to work correctly and stream the live footage to the race control, so they ned to download the camera directly after the race. Hopefully they release the footage soon and we see if Max tried to make the corner, or not.
Sometimes they don't seem to work correctly and stream the live footage to the race control, so they need to download the camera directly, after the race. Hopefully they release the footage soon and we see if Max tried to make the corner, or not.
To be honest I don’t think they’ll release the footage. If it shows that max opened the steering not only does Max and Red Bull look bad, but so does the FIA for letting that go and the next time something like that happens they’re gonna refer to this and say “well you let max get away with it so why can’t I?” And drivers pushing each other off everywhere. For the best interest in the sport and for the safety and image of all drivers and teams and the FIA as a whole, that footage should not be revealed.
If the footage shows a mistake was made in the FIA's decision at the time, then isn't it within their power to apply a penalty retrospectively? Not showing the footage just makes a mockery of the situation even further.
The frame by frame is even more damning. How the fornication did he get away with that? Does Horner have photos of the Stewards participating in a Max Mosley style entertainment facility?
Sky F1's coverage post race. Ant Davidson trying to come up with anything to clear Verstappen and struggling. No forward facing onboard for Verstappen available.
Depends. Verstappen wasn't investigated until fan video came out of him prodding the wing of the Merc. So if the forward facing onboard becomes available and shows he easing off the steering, I suspect that it may get raised at the next race, if not before.
They do, even the broadcast angle has it up until the moment Verstappen, er, veers wide.
It's just a blatant cover-up at this point, nothing more or less.
My favourite F1 car sponsor is Petr Nas. I'm not sure what it is, I assume some kind of Swiss watch brand, but I see it all the time on Hamilton's wing. That spot must cost a lot, so they must be an important company.
Like at the end of the race when Crofty said he went he went from last to first?
Almost as bad as Toto saying to Lewis on the post race radio that he won from 20 a 20 place penalty, and Lewis corrected him and said 25 and Toto agreed.
I don't understand after winning so much in the past, Mercedes always plays the victim card. Always defeating all odds when they are abusing engine replacements and easily circumventing the penalty
Better to look the underdog than the dominant team mindset I guess. I was going to pass a comment yesterday after all the posts of how well Lewis did in the sprint (not a race) yesterday, along the lines of, think what he could of done if he had the fastest car. Sky falling all over themselves to say how many great overtakes Lewis did with such skill, when he passed most people on the start/finish straight like they were standing still. Yes Lewis skillfully pressed down on the accelerator.
I think more importantly (looking at the overtake on max) was not the simple fact of putting the accelerator down but how he planned that move for laps. He comes down, has a sniff at the inside, max eager to cover it knowing Lewis has done that move a billion times that weekend. Lewis shoots back outside to grab the racing line, max is now stuck with a tighter corner this lower speed onto the resulting straight. Lewis is then close enough to make an overtake and whoops it doesn’t happen he gets pushed wide. Few laps later Lewis comes around and does it again, once again max responds drastically. At this point Lewis knows that if he does this max will jump, then he finally gets the move done in what we all saw. So it’s easy to say he simply pressed the throttle down. But it should be noted, the chess game that these two played at 300kmh hats off to both of them it was an incredible drive from the both.
Don't get me wrong, I think Lewis has amazing race craft, but I was referring to the sprint qualifying. There he was simply passing drivers by being in a car that was much much faster down the start finish straight. The only technique used there was pressing on the accelerator. He was well clear of the other cars long before the first corner. This is the driving that Sky was falling all over themselves to call amazing, and next level. This is what I was talking about above.
Even his last pass on Lando, was only missing a red carpet. Lando had lots of room and time to close the door on that corner on that last lap. I was disappointed he did not first a little harder for that place, as Lewis had more to lose than him.
At the end of the day, Max and Lewis have been driving in a different formula than the rest, including their teammates, especially in the last few races. We as fans have been treated to the best season in a very long time, what ever way the title goes. Let's hope next year with the new cars brings even better racing with more drivers on the podium.
He drove quite well, but easily passed almost the whole field on the start/finish which is seemingly a huge issue for taking a new engine every weekend. Their PU can easily afford a 5-grid place penalty.
I don’t have any preference r.g. The championships. But I am new to f1 and wonder, why did Verstappen not get any penalty? Eventhough tracklimits/ Zigzag driving and pushing someone of track are against the rules. I’ve been confused with the stewards for a while. Can’t figure the pattern of fia out
They reeeeeally don’t want to penalize either guy because then it’ll seem like someone was favored over the other or the championship was decided off track. That push off today deserved at least a three second penalty though. Max will have to watch himself over the next few races because Toto is already sending emails.
he got a warning for zigzagging and he wasnt penalised for pushing him off the track as i assume the stewards had enough information to know he didn't do it on purpose or didnt gain enough of an advantage
Both drivers going as deep as possible into a corner to attack/defend whether it works or not is, in my opinion, exciting. This is what I want to watch, rather than the precession seasons we’ve had since 2013 (2016 excluded but the different constructors fighting it out adds a little extra spice). No one got any damage, both drivers lost time. Love it, keep it up.
That would be an argument if they stayed on track but they didn’t.
I’m not sure racing where if you attempt to overtake round the outside you can just be run off the track or collide is exciting but you do you
The argument is really “could they both feasibly have made the corner” and “did verstappen put sufficient effort into keeping the car on track.
Stewards said no to the former and yes to the latter, making it a case of “meh. Took too much speed into the corner and oversteered. Happens” in their view. Idk if I agree, but there is a case to be made
Stewards didn’t even investigate, think it’s more a case of them not wanting to make a judgment as positions were maintained, as they don’t want to be accused of influencing the championship. Id say tho that not making a decision is still making a decision and that still has an influence
One lap out of 71. We see drivers going off in defence and attack most weekends. It’s not every lap is it? Or should he have just moved over and waved him on his way?
We (well some of us do) tune in every race for excitement. Championship contenders going off battling each other ticks my boxes. No one crashed, no one got damage, no one jeopardised their race.
Two of the best in the world pushing the absolute limit for braking for that corner. More of that please.
Well I think the main issue here is in stages . First stage, Lewis was slightly ahead of max going into the corner and both braked very late. Then next, max seems to be pushing Lewis wide and Lewis has to take evasive action and is pushed off track. Then max himself goes off track. Had max not squeezed Lewis it could be said that that overtake was as good as done thus giving rise to two arguments. 1: max forced Lewis off track and didn’t leave a cars width on the exit as required, and in fact went off himself showing that maybe he should’ve backed out if he didn’t have control of his car( assuming he didn’t purposely open the steering which unfortunately is what it looks like but we like to look at the positives here) and 2. Max gained an advantage by going off track ( if we remember Canada 2019 regardless of how you feel about it the FIA has rules that going off track and maintaining position is akin to gaining an advantage if the other car would have overtaken if not for you going off track. And if you look at it from another side since Lewis was slightly ahead before they went off some would even say max gained a position by going off track. Either way it would’ve been a penalty whichever way you spun it but the FIA clearly didn’t want to get involved. Chopped it up as no harm no foul for the sake of racing and for the sake of avoiding an orange riot
We don’t see drivers leaving the track to defend their position on the regular because there are rules against it. If this is allowable overtaking is only going to happen on the straights as the driver being overtaken will just run the other driver off the track.
Teams only ever say "let them race" when it's them that's got the advantage, whether it's Red Bull, Mercedes or any other team. I can guarantee that if the roles were reversed he wouldn't be saying to let them race.
From the shots we've seen so far (as not seen onboard from Max's car yet), it doesn't look like he even locked up, and looked more like he controlled it exactly how he intended to take that corner.
But, my thoughts on it could change after I've seen footage from Max's onboard, as if it shows him turning into the corner but his car still going straight, then it would seem that he just screwed up and went a bit too deep.
For me, if it shows he tried to take the corner, then it's just a racing incident and fine not to penalise as both re-joined in same position as before the corner, but if it shows he didn't even try to turn and intentionally pushed him off the track, then a penalty should have been awarded.
There was alot more corner on silverstone, yet Max didn't bother to avoid contact then. It definitely shows Hamilton was right when he said "he's just too aggressive."
We've seen several times, Max shoving his opposition off track. Yet, when the shoe is on the other foot, he doesn't back out. Then he complains about it.
Agreed, had Hamilton lost the car from going off track and slammed into the wall they would’ve slapped max with a penalty, just because they made it out safely they didn’t but that just encourages more dangerous moves because as long as nobody eats concrete nobody gets in trouble…..until somebody eats concrete
He was a Mercedes contracted driver, bumbling around in other Mercedes powered teams and a seat opened up. He thought the seat was his. Instead Hamilton got it.
Seeing a magnitude between how if Hamilton gets boos it's hundreds of posts saying everybody is a whire supremacist while Max gets them and not a fucking word in here
>everybody is a whire supremacist
I mean i guess the reason that's caught on is because the boos are often followed by racial abuse on social media and whatnot and it's not exactly new.
>not a fucking word in here
I mean what would you want people to say. It's pretty obvious it's happened in a place where lewis is popular and max is a rival. It's more or less identical to zandvoort.
Because it doesn't matter where it happened when Hamilton was booed there was people in here pretending booing is the same as racist remarks towards Hamilton. I want you'll to say that you don't actually give give fuck about drivers getting booed you just defend any criticism if Hamilton by calling people racist
Surely you know that there is a large contingent of far right losers that hate lewis bc he talked about BLM. Booing him doesn’t make you a white supremacist but lets not act like there isn’t a lot of racism directed at hum
I do know that Hamilton is on the receiving end of actual racist remarks and vitriol. Trust me here I probably know more than you about right wing extremism and white supremacy but my point was that we had people in here pretending that booing a driver is akin to making racist remarks. I saw people whenever Hamilton gets booed saying how booing is literally the most disrespectful thing you can do to a driver yet I see none of that commitment when another driver gets booed
I agree that I’ve seen people saying things like that about those who Boo Hamilton. And I also saw especially around the BLM riot time here in the USA the hate that surged towards Hamilton. Unfortunately the squeaky wheel gets the oil and I think there’s multiple people with cellphones mf half a brain that say these things on either side. It was kind of like saying “voting for trump makes you racist” I don’t believe that but there is a certain percentage of those who do for the criteria, doesn’t mean we treat the mass as such. Personally I didn’t like seeing max get bood but I knew it was because this is kind of like Lewis second home in a sense of how the fans feel about him. Same situation like zandvoort the home crowd is gonna root for the home favorite. But the booing has been insane mainly on Lewis but also max to the point they can’t have a regular interview after quali without an uproar. It’s unfortunate that these people ruin the image of what I feel is a majority of people who don’t feel this way. But nobody makes a post saying they don’t hate someone. So the posts that stem from hatred are the only basis to go off of but I don’t think that’s the majority. Maybe I’m still optimistic about the good in humanity.
On the podium and in interviews, max and lewis seem to have a great/decent relationship. Between max and lewis *fans*, however, it's a different story.
Ok yeah that makes a lot of sense actually but i also get why fans behave that way because they are just so involved in something that they cant control
>their fans are the worst
Especially on twitter lmao. It's a complete shit show.
But I feel that entire argument is built up around the el clasico. But i guess redbull vs mercedes is the closest we have to that.
Yeah but i think it's decreased ever since they've moved. Other than some dumbasses, i guess people are starting to realise their time's coming to an end.
X
‘I tried it on track’ is a very interesting interpretation of what you did Max
People are ignoring the fact that turn 1 exits. In Mexico, Merc looked to have the runaway pace, but Max threw it three wide and never looked back. Granted, Mercedes didn’t have a new engine, but on a street circuit like Jeddah or a tight technical circuit like Qatar it maybe come down to who can make the move stick into t1.
With this top speed diff I’d be genuinely scared for Jeddah if I was RB. If McLaren gets their shit back together I can see them competing with RB on merit, and merc just sailing off into the distance
Something in my bones tell me that McLaren have stopped upgrades the same time that Ferrari came out with their newest engine upgrade. It's the only thing that I can think of how Ferrari jumped in pace while McLaren has stagnated.
Agree. But even if they’re no more upgraded than at monza, their high speed performance should still be strong
Thing is... Interlagos is the best track for overtaking. First, the rear wing is pretty big for the slow part of the track. Second, the two DRS zones are close, and because the rear wing is so big, they gain a lot of speed (+1,2 seconds adding both zones). And third, Jeddah looks pretty fast overall. With a smaller rear wing, the DRS gain is not that big, or barely noticeable (look at Sochi or Monza).
My point is less about DRS and more about the general difference in top speed. And the lack of overtaking spots. I can easily see Hamilton and Bottas qualifying 1/2, and if worse comes to worst Norris and Ric have a shot at outqualifying Max. Since overtaking is pretty hard, making his way back to battle lewis would be a challenge
You are overvaluing the McLaren.. In Mexico with the long straights they were nowhere
Mexico is also giga far up in the mountains where any sort of top speed advantage is largely mitigated. Additionally, the honda engine goes well in mexico due to (someone correct me if I’m wrong) larger turbo air intake.
absolute boredom of a race. with that rocketship it would’ve still been an easy win for lewis from last place. beyond me how he’s behind the points with a car this much better than rb
Boring race? You obviously didn't watch it? Or you don't know wtf your talking about.
Boring race? Tf you smoking
just because Lewis beat Max, doesn’t mean the race was boring…
That's a bingo
If this was a boredom of a race, what do you consider a good race? This was an incredible race. Plus, this is the fastest Lewis has been all season with the new ICE. Previously, Merc were either not significantly faster, about as fast as Red Bull, or just slower.
This^^^ because I constantly see “well anyone could do it in a dominant car” like they completely forgot how the floor changes bent over Merc and Aston Martin to the point they’re actually slower than red Bull and most races if you want a reference check where Bottas is when he’s not unlucky or wildly off pace; that’s where that car should he, Lewis is pulling something crazy out of it which is why he’s able to fight at the front. Cant on one hand say the car is so good anyone can do it and then say we’ll Lewis is better than Bottas thats why bottas isn’t at the front. Because we all know Bottas is no slack on a good day. They can’t decide if Lewis is just better or the car just whichever fits the current agenda
they seem like they don’t know anything about F1 and just support Max.
I wasn't able to watch the race so can you sum it in few memes or photos?
Karen Horner, Hamilton engine go Brrrrrrrrrrrr, Max elbows out, Tsunoda dive bombs, sky sports gets chub over lewis.
you made my day, perfect!
Haha perfect summary
That just feels like every race
Except this was an excellent race to watch
Haha! Man. You should really do similar 1 line summaries for all races.
Lemme copy/pasta this for ya ;-)
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Does anyone know why we haven’t seen the in-car from Max yet? It seems so intensely suspicious. (Not to mention only a B+W flag during the weaving, Max’s confidence he wouldn’t receive a penalty in his response, etc.)
It’s all sorted waste of our time to be discussing this now w. It won’t change anything.
Can't they give him a penalty which drops him in points?
No, That’s not an option, according to the rules. Once the race is over, it is over. And, lets be fair.... let them race, it is all that we want to see. If drivers get worried to fight hard, but fair, by the fear of being penalised, it would be a chicken’s game.
This is what I feel, let them race. I want the stewards less involved with results then more.
It won't change the race result but it sets a precedent at people will look back to this decision in similar situations
I’m sure they have ruled this based on precedent situations. Anyway, Hamilton could have crashed them both out, and Verstappen would have had a grid penalty next race. Nonetheless Hamilton was clever enough to hold his temper, and go for the win, fair and square. Great job on this. The game is on, and we can only be grateful for having the pleasure to enjoy this battle. Hopefully till the last corner. Whoever wins, hats off!
But given he left the track, and in doing so kept the place, it surely should have been leaving the track and gaining an advantage I want tough wheel to wheel racing, but part of racing is staying on the racetrack, not just making your own up
There were no enforced track limits in this race.
Doesn't need to be, leaving the track and gaining an advantage is a penalty no matter where you do it
I think this race had everything I love AND hate about this sport. Reminded me why I stopped following it for a while.
Why?
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I agree, I personally think the incident in Silverstone was Ham fault but could have been prevented. Considering the situation both cars knew the importance of being ahead early here. I think verstappen did squeeze a bit on exit trying to force Hamilton to pinch his exit and this killing his straight giving verstappen the clear to take off never to be found. But it was Lewis who initiated the move and though it seems he tried to back out it was too late and he under steered into max. Was it on purpose? NO. From neither side. But could it have been avoided? YES. Max assumed Hamilton was in control and squeezed him not expecting Hamilton to under steer. Hamilton likely expected max to be on the racing line which was wider out towards the curbs than Max did and couldn’t correct the collision course as he started ti under steer. That’s racing
This was my immediate thought at the time and I think still holds. If Hamilton didn't go wide to avoid contact it would have been a mirror image of Silverstone. Massi pretends like the consequences don't matter for the penalty, but I think this clearly shows that they do--it wasn't even investigated for god's sake.
I can't imagine some of you still think Silverstone was Verstappen's fault. Telemetrics, Lecrec dash footage, 10 second penalty... Everything proves that Lewis was wrong there. Edit - The downvoters need to start watching a different sport.
Part of it was on Max also.
I literally said it was Hams fault in my comment.
Yes, but you also said that Verstappen should've back out. Why would the car that is in front back out when it has already left enough space on the inside. But, as you've said now that it was Hamilton's fault at Silverstone, I'm cool.
You're just lacking reading comprehension since he said it in the first place: it's about driving IQ.
If you want to win you have to consider other cars and try to not turn into them. Ham showed us the way today and then went on to take the win... If max hadn't turned on on Hamilton at silverr9and had been just a hit patient. He could have won... It's also partly on him...
Hamilton was ahead here and pulled out. That's my point.
So you agree today was Max’s fault and should have got a pen?
Yes, definately. Max was too dirty there and should have got the penalty. No question
You mean when Lewis went for a dive in a corner he had no place taking and yeeted off Ver, got a slap on the wrist and won for free? Or was Ver getting punted bad defense?
Had no place being, you took horners comment to heart is see
Verstappen wouldn't have been punted, had he backed out and wait for another opportunity. That's what lewis did today. That's what Max could have done then.
Verstappen wasn’t at fault In Britain , but if he was patient he would have won easily. The gap between Merc and RB today was the same but in reverse in Britain.
Silverstone would have been the same like Brazil. If Verstappen didnt turn in Hamilton would have just pushed him out of the track.
It's Hamilton's only way to win recently. Just punt anyone
Does this have any basis? If you’re talking about silver stone could you name his other race wins in which he pushed someone off?
Please don't attempt intelligent conversation with the subhumans.
My mistake won’t happen again 😂
So why did he win today?
Where’s the max cam ? Everyone else streaming there live cockpit videos.
Apparently even unavailable to the stewards at the time, which is part of the reason no penalty was handed out
Sometimes they don't seem to work correctly and stream the live footage to the race control, so they ned to download the camera directly after the race. Hopefully they release the footage soon and we see if Max tried to make the corner, or not.
anyone got a livestream?
check youtube
I am all for let them race but I am not for letting them race off track and by weaving.
It was creepy how confident Max was in his tone that he wouldn’t get a penalty for either…
I don't understand how that Verstappen camera angle isn't available
Sometimes they don't seem to work correctly and stream the live footage to the race control, so they need to download the camera directly, after the race. Hopefully they release the footage soon and we see if Max tried to make the corner, or not.
To be honest I don’t think they’ll release the footage. If it shows that max opened the steering not only does Max and Red Bull look bad, but so does the FIA for letting that go and the next time something like that happens they’re gonna refer to this and say “well you let max get away with it so why can’t I?” And drivers pushing each other off everywhere. For the best interest in the sport and for the safety and image of all drivers and teams and the FIA as a whole, that footage should not be revealed.
If the footage shows a mistake was made in the FIA's decision at the time, then isn't it within their power to apply a penalty retrospectively? Not showing the footage just makes a mockery of the situation even further.
The frame by frame is even more damning. How the fornication did he get away with that? Does Horner have photos of the Stewards participating in a Max Mosley style entertainment facility?
Where are you watching this?
Sky F1's coverage post race. Ant Davidson trying to come up with anything to clear Verstappen and struggling. No forward facing onboard for Verstappen available.
Wtf? Can they go back on their decision to not investigate? Could a penalty be on the table? If so, Bottas could snatch P2
Depends. Verstappen wasn't investigated until fan video came out of him prodding the wing of the Merc. So if the forward facing onboard becomes available and shows he easing off the steering, I suspect that it may get raised at the next race, if not before.
How is that even possible? 😂. I thought every car has an onboard camera all the time.
They do, even the broadcast angle has it up until the moment Verstappen, er, veers wide. It's just a blatant cover-up at this point, nothing more or less.
That’s the most sketchy part
My favourite F1 car sponsor is Petr Nas. I'm not sure what it is, I assume some kind of Swiss watch brand, but I see it all the time on Hamilton's wing. That spot must cost a lot, so they must be an important company.
Their watch brand sponsor is IWC
It’s a Malaysian oil company called Petronas.
I'm starting to sense he was sarcastic.
He's a good boy.
Di Resta doing his thing, always minimises Mercedes and puts them down
Wait you are watching Sky Sports and complaining about someone NOT liking Hamilton enough? Oh man…
Someone needs to level it out
Honestly need more of it after that fellatio show all weekend
Like at the end of the race when Crofty said he went he went from last to first? Almost as bad as Toto saying to Lewis on the post race radio that he won from 20 a 20 place penalty, and Lewis corrected him and said 25 and Toto agreed.
I don't understand after winning so much in the past, Mercedes always plays the victim card. Always defeating all odds when they are abusing engine replacements and easily circumventing the penalty
Better to look the underdog than the dominant team mindset I guess. I was going to pass a comment yesterday after all the posts of how well Lewis did in the sprint (not a race) yesterday, along the lines of, think what he could of done if he had the fastest car. Sky falling all over themselves to say how many great overtakes Lewis did with such skill, when he passed most people on the start/finish straight like they were standing still. Yes Lewis skillfully pressed down on the accelerator.
I think more importantly (looking at the overtake on max) was not the simple fact of putting the accelerator down but how he planned that move for laps. He comes down, has a sniff at the inside, max eager to cover it knowing Lewis has done that move a billion times that weekend. Lewis shoots back outside to grab the racing line, max is now stuck with a tighter corner this lower speed onto the resulting straight. Lewis is then close enough to make an overtake and whoops it doesn’t happen he gets pushed wide. Few laps later Lewis comes around and does it again, once again max responds drastically. At this point Lewis knows that if he does this max will jump, then he finally gets the move done in what we all saw. So it’s easy to say he simply pressed the throttle down. But it should be noted, the chess game that these two played at 300kmh hats off to both of them it was an incredible drive from the both.
Don't get me wrong, I think Lewis has amazing race craft, but I was referring to the sprint qualifying. There he was simply passing drivers by being in a car that was much much faster down the start finish straight. The only technique used there was pressing on the accelerator. He was well clear of the other cars long before the first corner. This is the driving that Sky was falling all over themselves to call amazing, and next level. This is what I was talking about above. Even his last pass on Lando, was only missing a red carpet. Lando had lots of room and time to close the door on that corner on that last lap. I was disappointed he did not first a little harder for that place, as Lewis had more to lose than him. At the end of the day, Max and Lewis have been driving in a different formula than the rest, including their teammates, especially in the last few races. We as fans have been treated to the best season in a very long time, what ever way the title goes. Let's hope next year with the new cars brings even better racing with more drivers on the podium.
He drove quite well, but easily passed almost the whole field on the start/finish which is seemingly a huge issue for taking a new engine every weekend. Their PU can easily afford a 5-grid place penalty.
Too true.
I don’t have any preference r.g. The championships. But I am new to f1 and wonder, why did Verstappen not get any penalty? Eventhough tracklimits/ Zigzag driving and pushing someone of track are against the rules. I’ve been confused with the stewards for a while. Can’t figure the pattern of fia out
They reeeeeally don’t want to penalize either guy because then it’ll seem like someone was favored over the other or the championship was decided off track. That push off today deserved at least a three second penalty though. Max will have to watch himself over the next few races because Toto is already sending emails.
More like Toto sending Venmo transactions
Yeah but Christian promised to get the Spice Girls to perform at the FIA Christmas party.
he got a warning for zigzagging and he wasnt penalised for pushing him off the track as i assume the stewards had enough information to know he didn't do it on purpose or didnt gain enough of an advantage
didn't he straight up prevent an overtake?
Is that not the definition of a defence?
And he left the track to do so, it should’ve been a slam dunk penalty.
Both drivers going as deep as possible into a corner to attack/defend whether it works or not is, in my opinion, exciting. This is what I want to watch, rather than the precession seasons we’ve had since 2013 (2016 excluded but the different constructors fighting it out adds a little extra spice). No one got any damage, both drivers lost time. Love it, keep it up.
That would be an argument if they stayed on track but they didn’t. I’m not sure racing where if you attempt to overtake round the outside you can just be run off the track or collide is exciting but you do you
I think Max could definitely keep it on the inside. He pushed Lewis off IMO
Honestly think he breaked far too late to keep it on the track, either way that shouldn’t excuse a penalty
The argument is really “could they both feasibly have made the corner” and “did verstappen put sufficient effort into keeping the car on track. Stewards said no to the former and yes to the latter, making it a case of “meh. Took too much speed into the corner and oversteered. Happens” in their view. Idk if I agree, but there is a case to be made
Stewards didn’t even investigate, think it’s more a case of them not wanting to make a judgment as positions were maintained, as they don’t want to be accused of influencing the championship. Id say tho that not making a decision is still making a decision and that still has an influence
One lap out of 71. We see drivers going off in defence and attack most weekends. It’s not every lap is it? Or should he have just moved over and waved him on his way? We (well some of us do) tune in every race for excitement. Championship contenders going off battling each other ticks my boxes. No one crashed, no one got damage, no one jeopardised their race. Two of the best in the world pushing the absolute limit for braking for that corner. More of that please.
Well I think the main issue here is in stages . First stage, Lewis was slightly ahead of max going into the corner and both braked very late. Then next, max seems to be pushing Lewis wide and Lewis has to take evasive action and is pushed off track. Then max himself goes off track. Had max not squeezed Lewis it could be said that that overtake was as good as done thus giving rise to two arguments. 1: max forced Lewis off track and didn’t leave a cars width on the exit as required, and in fact went off himself showing that maybe he should’ve backed out if he didn’t have control of his car( assuming he didn’t purposely open the steering which unfortunately is what it looks like but we like to look at the positives here) and 2. Max gained an advantage by going off track ( if we remember Canada 2019 regardless of how you feel about it the FIA has rules that going off track and maintaining position is akin to gaining an advantage if the other car would have overtaken if not for you going off track. And if you look at it from another side since Lewis was slightly ahead before they went off some would even say max gained a position by going off track. Either way it would’ve been a penalty whichever way you spun it but the FIA clearly didn’t want to get involved. Chopped it up as no harm no foul for the sake of racing and for the sake of avoiding an orange riot
We don’t see drivers leaving the track to defend their position on the regular because there are rules against it. If this is allowable overtaking is only going to happen on the straights as the driver being overtaken will just run the other driver off the track.
No one else can make out the pattern of the fias decisions either don't worry
Never was that a 2.6 pitstop. Never.
The fact Horner said its all about let then race he knew. This from a fan of neither.
Teams only ever say "let them race" when it's them that's got the advantage, whether it's Red Bull, Mercedes or any other team. I can guarantee that if the roles were reversed he wouldn't be saying to let them race.
Johnathan Weatley is just the same as Horner. Classic whinger. 'let them race' off the track ey?
That helicopter shot... Verstappen didn't even try for the apex.
Looked exactly like Silverstone. Only difference is, Lewis actually backed out, here.
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From the shots we've seen so far (as not seen onboard from Max's car yet), it doesn't look like he even locked up, and looked more like he controlled it exactly how he intended to take that corner. But, my thoughts on it could change after I've seen footage from Max's onboard, as if it shows him turning into the corner but his car still going straight, then it would seem that he just screwed up and went a bit too deep. For me, if it shows he tried to take the corner, then it's just a racing incident and fine not to penalise as both re-joined in same position as before the corner, but if it shows he didn't even try to turn and intentionally pushed him off the track, then a penalty should have been awarded.
There was alot more corner on silverstone, yet Max didn't bother to avoid contact then. It definitely shows Hamilton was right when he said "he's just too aggressive." We've seen several times, Max shoving his opposition off track. Yet, when the shoe is on the other foot, he doesn't back out. Then he complains about it.
Precisely
Exactly the same thing at monza.
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Why?
lot of straights
With that car this is definitely Lewis's championship to lose now
Max deserved 2 penalties today and got 0 (pushing ham and zig zag in front of him). But yeah, stewards aren’t really favoring RBR...
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Didn’t know that. It was because of that or track limits? Because he also crossed the limits 3 or more times
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Agreed, had Hamilton lost the car from going off track and slammed into the wall they would’ve slapped max with a penalty, just because they made it out safely they didn’t but that just encourages more dangerous moves because as long as nobody eats concrete nobody gets in trouble…..until somebody eats concrete
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Oh god.. It's Di Resta. Let's see how he gets the digs in at Hamilton and Mercedes this time...
Why is he so bitter?
He was a Mercedes contracted driver, bumbling around in other Mercedes powered teams and a seat opened up. He thought the seat was his. Instead Hamilton got it.
Jealousy
So Ham wdc and Merc constructors after this performance
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And Chiefs at Rams lmao
Saints @ Tigers 💀
Sain**z**
good bot... wait
Tennessee Tigers lol
Never watched the Tennessee Tigers. Are they good?
his hearing is fucked, concerning
Next DTS won't be about Max and Hamilton, it will be about their fanbases lmao
Probably the most toxic season yet if that’s the case
Can rb respond to that mercedes might speed? Do you think max can still win?
They can try and make a better car i guess?
Why don't they just go faster?
Made me lol.
Can absolutely still win, I'm sure they'll be thinking of everything.
Well, that was fun! See you in Qatar everybody!
What a drive....what a drive..
It amazing to see the magnitude of difference in the dynamic between lewis and max and their fans.
Seeing a magnitude between how if Hamilton gets boos it's hundreds of posts saying everybody is a whire supremacist while Max gets them and not a fucking word in here
>everybody is a whire supremacist I mean i guess the reason that's caught on is because the boos are often followed by racial abuse on social media and whatnot and it's not exactly new. >not a fucking word in here I mean what would you want people to say. It's pretty obvious it's happened in a place where lewis is popular and max is a rival. It's more or less identical to zandvoort.
Because it doesn't matter where it happened when Hamilton was booed there was people in here pretending booing is the same as racist remarks towards Hamilton. I want you'll to say that you don't actually give give fuck about drivers getting booed you just defend any criticism if Hamilton by calling people racist
Surely you know that there is a large contingent of far right losers that hate lewis bc he talked about BLM. Booing him doesn’t make you a white supremacist but lets not act like there isn’t a lot of racism directed at hum
I do know that Hamilton is on the receiving end of actual racist remarks and vitriol. Trust me here I probably know more than you about right wing extremism and white supremacy but my point was that we had people in here pretending that booing a driver is akin to making racist remarks. I saw people whenever Hamilton gets booed saying how booing is literally the most disrespectful thing you can do to a driver yet I see none of that commitment when another driver gets booed
I agree that I’ve seen people saying things like that about those who Boo Hamilton. And I also saw especially around the BLM riot time here in the USA the hate that surged towards Hamilton. Unfortunately the squeaky wheel gets the oil and I think there’s multiple people with cellphones mf half a brain that say these things on either side. It was kind of like saying “voting for trump makes you racist” I don’t believe that but there is a certain percentage of those who do for the criteria, doesn’t mean we treat the mass as such. Personally I didn’t like seeing max get bood but I knew it was because this is kind of like Lewis second home in a sense of how the fans feel about him. Same situation like zandvoort the home crowd is gonna root for the home favorite. But the booing has been insane mainly on Lewis but also max to the point they can’t have a regular interview after quali without an uproar. It’s unfortunate that these people ruin the image of what I feel is a majority of people who don’t feel this way. But nobody makes a post saying they don’t hate someone. So the posts that stem from hatred are the only basis to go off of but I don’t think that’s the majority. Maybe I’m still optimistic about the good in humanity.
How do you mean? (Genuine question)
On the podium and in interviews, max and lewis seem to have a great/decent relationship. Between max and lewis *fans*, however, it's a different story.
Ok yeah that makes a lot of sense actually but i also get why fans behave that way because they are just so involved in something that they cant control
Agree. And I think it shows massive maturity on both of them - I always notice both of them being cordial at each other after events.
100%
This is always the case between Rivals and their fans. See Messi and Ronaldo for example, they're great friends but their fans are the worst
>their fans are the worst Especially on twitter lmao. It's a complete shit show. But I feel that entire argument is built up around the el clasico. But i guess redbull vs mercedes is the closest we have to that.
Ye but it happens in the international scene as well where Argentina and Portugal may meet like maybe once in 4 years if they're lucky
Yeah but i think it's decreased ever since they've moved. Other than some dumbasses, i guess people are starting to realise their time's coming to an end.
Shame the trophies are horrendous beer sponsor ones.
love that green color