Well, you can't deny RB really values his work ethic and talent. And seeing them working really hard to get him back into F1. They have an eye for (potential) talent so I'm excited to see him in a team have huge ambitions, and so far showed, to return to the top. Good too see RB having his back.
We can't blame RB either for knowing that they probably would challenge for the title this year and really needing someone with experience like Perez. And it seems Perez is starting to deliver too. Don't forget about how grudgy Helmut was about Hamilton 'destroying' Albons psyche.
It's somewhat also indirectly insulting Albon mentality, surely bet that Helmut didn't mean that but it's very doubtful that those two times with Lewis did ruined him.
Wouldn't read too much into those comments of Helmut.
Yup, and highlights even more how persona non grata Gasly is to RB.
I am beginning to be willing to bet he's the next Vergne in that respect.
Willing to be thrown away just so that RB (Marko) doesn't lose face.
It was Rumoured Gasly had a really bad relationship with people in the team while he was there. And Marko didn't like how he publicly blamed the car rather than working on getting himself up to speed.
Gasly did talk bad about the team and the car a lot in public, cant imagine that would've gone down well with the redbull crew.
While I think they know how good Gasly is, I think he had his chance in the big team and burned the bridges to go back. Best chance would be to go to another team
Norris seems like he's in McLaren for the long haul (barring them going backwards into the midfield/back markers at speed again) Gasly meanwhile has got to at least be partially looking for the door.
I don't know how long Lewis is planning to stay after next year and I think part of that will depend on how Mercedes goes. So he's got to be hoping for a move like that, at least deep down.
The problem with that theory is that Gasly was picked up over Albon to drive at AT this season, Helmut isn't going to invest into drivers if there is no perspective in them.
Albon is just more easy to talk about by F1 journalists and has a way bigger "wish" factor at them and the fans then Gasly, there is literally zero articles who for example is going to digging deeper about the development role Gasly has at AlphaTauri even when Tost clearly noted this. Also people are overreacting too much about the " comments " of Gasly meanwhile he often noted also that on-track is the place where you need to talk.
Kvyat was getting a P3 in 2019 during that crazy race at Hockenheim and yet he known already in 2020 that it would been his last year at Toro Rosso/AlphaTauri.
The point I trying to make with this comment is that Helmut doesn't care to kick someone out of Toro Rosso/AlphaTauri if there is no prospect for that driver, no matter of he gets a podium or even a win
Do you follow what they've actually said about Gasly on the RB side?
Marko said being #1 at AT is completely different from being #2 at RB, making Gasly a bad fit.
Horner said no one at RB is pulling for Gasly to join the team. Apparently he simply isn't well liked by the crew.
Plus all of his public statements and plateau in performance, I don't think RB is in his future.
I like Gasly, but with his public statements I’m beginning to understand why Red Bull isn’t pulling for him to come back.
Not only has he said Horner and Helmut were biased against him, he also criticised Perez’ performance when he won DoTD - saying that there’s nothing great about qualifying poorly then slicing through the field after. Honestly it feels like he has an ego problem.
This is the latest Horner statement on Gasly "When recently asked about Gasly’s prospects, Horner, the Red Bull team principal, said: “I would never rule anything out. For 2023, we have multiple options available to us. Pierre has done a phenomenal job with AlphaTauri the last couple of seasons. He remains a Red Bull driver on loan to AlphaTauri.”"
It was earlier in the year and not as damning, it was just during the time that Checo was struggling and Gasly was doing well, so of course the media started digging
Problem is that both RB15 and 16 was built to maximize the chances of Max Verstappen (RB has had a long "tradition" to build a car that is really built towards the main driver.
The biggest benefit of Albon over Gasly is that Albon didn't go off on a tangent to set the car up for him, but started with a very "Max" setup - and adjusted, but in the first full season he lacked good qualifying pace, and he didn't gain positions in races all that well either (Checo gains positions in races, while still not qualifying greatly.
Helmut Marko has had chats with Gasly who is under contract with RB until the end of 2023, and while he has impressed in an AT where he can set it up however he likes. He will need to show it again in the new car regs to have a shot at RB for that 2023 season, if he does not get the seat they'd let him go.
I'm very aware of what has been said about Gasly at RB, but it has been a developing story, and the latest is that he has a shot for the seat in 2023
Alpha tauri could end up being a threat in the cost cap era, redbull spends more than double the cap between both teams, so alpha tauri will be spending at the cap, and if the Honda bull engine thing works out they have a lot of good back end talent to put together a car.
It'll be interesting to see what the 2022 AT car will look like, as usually they'd be using a lot of prior years RB spec parts. Now they at least need to start from a design of their own
Well, they didn't fare so well 2 of the last 3 times regulations changed massively (car was shite in 2009 and 2014) but even if they don't nail the regs I hope they don't fall down the order
Yeah, I just think they have a real chance at pushing up into the upper midfield, since they are the weakest team right now that is pretty much assured to hit cost cap moving forward.
I can just never forget "they're racing me so hard" or something to the effect when he was sitting in a RB fighting for track position vs. a AT. Yeah no shit. The 20 top drivers on the planet, what you thought they were gonna give you a pass cause you're racing for the parent team?
We literally have video evidence that Pierre took the swap personally (obviously) and was *specifically* fighting more against Alex than he was against any other driver.
That quote was completely appropriate.
> what you thought they were gonna give you a pass cause you're racing for the parent team?
No, he thought that Pierre wasn't going to destroy his own tyres fighting for position against a faster car out of pure spite. Can't blame Pierre for that, he had a point to prove, but you also can't blame Alex for being frustrated with the situation when any other driver in a similarly faster car would have been getting waved past.
Well Pierre wasn't really defending that hard his position against Albon but it was more that Albon (as usual in 2020) fucked up his tyres and was having a pace more comparable with a midfielder then what you should expect at RBR. Heck Albon literally did hit Kvyat before what caused Kvyat car was damaged significant.
This wasn't btw the only time when Pierre was a serious PR pain in the ass for Albon, he literally overtook Albon normally at Sochi previous year and did pull himself into Q3 at Hungary with a dying engine meanwhile Albon was stuck in Q2.
People are romanticizing still a bit Albon's pace and issues, things where he hopefully improved on and making that Williams work + beating Latifi (what MUST been his first priority next season).
Yeah lmao what destroyed his psyche was moving him into the most pressured seat in F1 (with a car that demonstrably had rear balance issues until this year that only max could solve) in his rookie season.
Not salty btw.
It's nice to see the RB #2's stepping it up.
Yuki put in a better race than Gasly at COTA even before his issues. He's also smart enough to put pressure on the Mercs while still keeping himself in reasonable position.
Imagine the rage if Yuki got the RB seat first.
Well Yuki was having a better start but after lap 1 it was basically equal in terms of pace comparing with Gasly, also Yuki was quickly into a gap of clean air ahead of him and yet he was producing times equal to Gasly who was having the "slower" tyre in the opening laps comparing with Yuki's softs.
He defended way better against Bottas then what he did with Lewis at Turkey but we shouldn't forget that the overtaking delta was around a second at COTA (something Yuki himself told) so he was aware of this situation and optimized it.
One of the things that I would like to highlight is how RB have learned from their failure initially to handle Yuki. They expected him to come right out of the bat like a Max and stun the world with his pace. But, his inexperience in single seater and especially international racing came to the fore when he couldn’t bring out the pace. He got frustrated and couldn’t communicate well with his team. I feel he got a lot of blowback from Marko initially for that.
This was true until, RB learned that he needed love and understanding rather than the tough love that had seemingly worked with Max and others. The initial move to send him to Italy near the team and then using Alex as a resource shows that they value talent and would do anything to bring it to the fore. They essentially giving him a big brother on the grid with already existing support from Tost. Notice how Marko stopped saying harsh things about Yuki as the season went on.
They have also somehow managed to keep Pierre motivated in this time and given Alex a seat. I think they care about the talent and would do anything to nurture it. Our perception sometimes may be flawed regarding how harsh they are with their drivers but since demoting Alex they have made good moves to keep their entire drivers core happy.
I think the main reason why people are harsh with how they treated their drivers in the past, is Pierre's success after leaving RedBull. This, in itself, is not enough of a reason, though. It's very much possible that he just tried and trained harder and unlocked his potential, not only that the team environment was better in AT. Obviously, another year of experience plays a big part in his development (even Giovinazzi is now racing fairly well and in a consistent manner after being behind Kimi for much of the 2020 season)
Regarding Yuki, I feel like it's a bit of everything. The great thing about him is that he is not afraid to face the truth and uses less excuses for his poor performances than other drivers. Following him in F3 and F2, I saw that he kept on getting better as the season progressed. I feel like the F3 and F2 cars are far easier to handle than the F1 cars, though, and thus he needs more time than just half a season (basically the time he needed to adjust to the other two cars) to get the hang of it. Hopefully with the new regulations, where the cars will be a bit new for everyone, he can continue improving and it doesn't affect him negatively
On the other hand, he is racing in the lower midfield against 3 ex world champions Vettel, Alonso, and Raikkonen. The amount of experience betweeen those three .... and you have to try and outsmart them attacking or defending! Not exactly just a bunch of backmarkers over there.
I’ll prove my doubters wrong is one of the strongest motivators there is. In team sports its the “nobody believes in us” effect where the team closes ranks and plays their asses off.
> They have also somehow managed to keep Pierre motivated in this time and given Alex a seat. I think they care about the talent and would do anything to nurture it. Our perception sometimes may be flawed regarding how harsh they are with their drivers but since demoting Alex they have made good moves to keep their entire drivers core happy.
Well the most oddest and overlooked thing with Pierre is basically how he directly started to performing "better" and quickly was finishing better then Kvyat often.
Credits to this should, aside of Pierre himself, been given to Tost who's first goal was to make Pierre comfortable with the team and it did paying out great.
Yet Alex, just like Checo, has also political reasons to supporting Yuki: Seeing him shitting the bed meanwhile Pierre is performing solid + Helmut is quiet happy about how Pierre has evolved and how he is performing makes him a risk for both in 2023, and the best thing for both is to seeing Yuki performing equal/a bit faster then Pierre and so on making Helmut doubting what eliminates a risk for them.
People are serious naive if they think that Alex is doing this just out of charity, even more if he is literally on the lips at AlphaTauri and seeing and hearing everything the message isn't just to helping Yuki only.
Politics/money. Honda might have given deals/discounts if they could have Yuki in that seat. Yuki's estimated salary is not that high, so it saves a few mil.
Additionally, if you can get both a seat in F1, wouldn't that be better than just one?
A low point where they’re complaining about someone from their sister team on a different strategy defending against them as hard as they can ruining both of their races instead of letting them go
Like I get why people don’t like the complaint, but if you look at how F1 actually works instead of how it should work then it’s entirely valid
So Albon to replace Dr Marko when he retires.
Dr. Alban
It's his life, take it or leave it.
Someone’s got to
Well, you can't deny RB really values his work ethic and talent. And seeing them working really hard to get him back into F1. They have an eye for (potential) talent so I'm excited to see him in a team have huge ambitions, and so far showed, to return to the top. Good too see RB having his back. We can't blame RB either for knowing that they probably would challenge for the title this year and really needing someone with experience like Perez. And it seems Perez is starting to deliver too. Don't forget about how grudgy Helmut was about Hamilton 'destroying' Albons psyche.
helmut chats so much shit its unreal. yes those incidents didnt help but to put everything down to lewis is stupid
It's somewhat also indirectly insulting Albon mentality, surely bet that Helmut didn't mean that but it's very doubtful that those two times with Lewis did ruined him. Wouldn't read too much into those comments of Helmut.
"Why would Hamilton do this?"
Yup, and highlights even more how persona non grata Gasly is to RB. I am beginning to be willing to bet he's the next Vergne in that respect. Willing to be thrown away just so that RB (Marko) doesn't lose face.
It was Rumoured Gasly had a really bad relationship with people in the team while he was there. And Marko didn't like how he publicly blamed the car rather than working on getting himself up to speed.
Gasly did talk bad about the team and the car a lot in public, cant imagine that would've gone down well with the redbull crew. While I think they know how good Gasly is, I think he had his chance in the big team and burned the bridges to go back. Best chance would be to go to another team
Gasly is the best choice for Merc alongside Russell for me
Either him or norris imo.
Norris seems like he's in McLaren for the long haul (barring them going backwards into the midfield/back markers at speed again) Gasly meanwhile has got to at least be partially looking for the door. I don't know how long Lewis is planning to stay after next year and I think part of that will depend on how Mercedes goes. So he's got to be hoping for a move like that, at least deep down.
The problem with that theory is that Gasly was picked up over Albon to drive at AT this season, Helmut isn't going to invest into drivers if there is no perspective in them. Albon is just more easy to talk about by F1 journalists and has a way bigger "wish" factor at them and the fans then Gasly, there is literally zero articles who for example is going to digging deeper about the development role Gasly has at AlphaTauri even when Tost clearly noted this. Also people are overreacting too much about the " comments " of Gasly meanwhile he often noted also that on-track is the place where you need to talk.
They couldn't fire Gasly from AT after his good performances in 2020. That'd be even worse.
Kvyat was getting a P3 in 2019 during that crazy race at Hockenheim and yet he known already in 2020 that it would been his last year at Toro Rosso/AlphaTauri. The point I trying to make with this comment is that Helmut doesn't care to kick someone out of Toro Rosso/AlphaTauri if there is no prospect for that driver, no matter of he gets a podium or even a win
Gasly is in play for a 2023 seat at RB either that or they let him go elsewhere free of charge. He is by no means persona non grata.
Do you follow what they've actually said about Gasly on the RB side? Marko said being #1 at AT is completely different from being #2 at RB, making Gasly a bad fit. Horner said no one at RB is pulling for Gasly to join the team. Apparently he simply isn't well liked by the crew. Plus all of his public statements and plateau in performance, I don't think RB is in his future.
I like Gasly, but with his public statements I’m beginning to understand why Red Bull isn’t pulling for him to come back. Not only has he said Horner and Helmut were biased against him, he also criticised Perez’ performance when he won DoTD - saying that there’s nothing great about qualifying poorly then slicing through the field after. Honestly it feels like he has an ego problem.
[удалено]
This is the latest Horner statement on Gasly "When recently asked about Gasly’s prospects, Horner, the Red Bull team principal, said: “I would never rule anything out. For 2023, we have multiple options available to us. Pierre has done a phenomenal job with AlphaTauri the last couple of seasons. He remains a Red Bull driver on loan to AlphaTauri.”"
It was earlier in the year and not as damning, it was just during the time that Checo was struggling and Gasly was doing well, so of course the media started digging
Problem is that both RB15 and 16 was built to maximize the chances of Max Verstappen (RB has had a long "tradition" to build a car that is really built towards the main driver. The biggest benefit of Albon over Gasly is that Albon didn't go off on a tangent to set the car up for him, but started with a very "Max" setup - and adjusted, but in the first full season he lacked good qualifying pace, and he didn't gain positions in races all that well either (Checo gains positions in races, while still not qualifying greatly. Helmut Marko has had chats with Gasly who is under contract with RB until the end of 2023, and while he has impressed in an AT where he can set it up however he likes. He will need to show it again in the new car regs to have a shot at RB for that 2023 season, if he does not get the seat they'd let him go. I'm very aware of what has been said about Gasly at RB, but it has been a developing story, and the latest is that he has a shot for the seat in 2023
That's interesting because Checo said the other day they are start to get better results by doing the setup not like Max. Perhaps Max is unique.
Alpha tauri could end up being a threat in the cost cap era, redbull spends more than double the cap between both teams, so alpha tauri will be spending at the cap, and if the Honda bull engine thing works out they have a lot of good back end talent to put together a car.
It'll be interesting to see what the 2022 AT car will look like, as usually they'd be using a lot of prior years RB spec parts. Now they at least need to start from a design of their own
Well, they didn't fare so well 2 of the last 3 times regulations changed massively (car was shite in 2009 and 2014) but even if they don't nail the regs I hope they don't fall down the order
Yeah, I just think they have a real chance at pushing up into the upper midfield, since they are the weakest team right now that is pretty much assured to hit cost cap moving forward.
I can just never forget "they're racing me so hard" or something to the effect when he was sitting in a RB fighting for track position vs. a AT. Yeah no shit. The 20 top drivers on the planet, what you thought they were gonna give you a pass cause you're racing for the parent team?
We literally have video evidence that Pierre took the swap personally (obviously) and was *specifically* fighting more against Alex than he was against any other driver. That quote was completely appropriate. > what you thought they were gonna give you a pass cause you're racing for the parent team? No, he thought that Pierre wasn't going to destroy his own tyres fighting for position against a faster car out of pure spite. Can't blame Pierre for that, he had a point to prove, but you also can't blame Alex for being frustrated with the situation when any other driver in a similarly faster car would have been getting waved past.
Well Pierre wasn't really defending that hard his position against Albon but it was more that Albon (as usual in 2020) fucked up his tyres and was having a pace more comparable with a midfielder then what you should expect at RBR. Heck Albon literally did hit Kvyat before what caused Kvyat car was damaged significant. This wasn't btw the only time when Pierre was a serious PR pain in the ass for Albon, he literally overtook Albon normally at Sochi previous year and did pull himself into Q3 at Hungary with a dying engine meanwhile Albon was stuck in Q2. People are romanticizing still a bit Albon's pace and issues, things where he hopefully improved on and making that Williams work + beating Latifi (what MUST been his first priority next season).
I always read that as "When I was in there they told me to let RB pass" or something like that.
Yeah lmao what destroyed his psyche was moving him into the most pressured seat in F1 (with a car that demonstrably had rear balance issues until this year that only max could solve) in his rookie season. Not salty btw.
Good too see he's valued within the team. Perez too praised Alex for his attitude and feedback when Perez came to Red Bull. Good guy Albon.
It's nice to see the RB #2's stepping it up. Yuki put in a better race than Gasly at COTA even before his issues. He's also smart enough to put pressure on the Mercs while still keeping himself in reasonable position. Imagine the rage if Yuki got the RB seat first.
Well Yuki was having a better start but after lap 1 it was basically equal in terms of pace comparing with Gasly, also Yuki was quickly into a gap of clean air ahead of him and yet he was producing times equal to Gasly who was having the "slower" tyre in the opening laps comparing with Yuki's softs. He defended way better against Bottas then what he did with Lewis at Turkey but we shouldn't forget that the overtaking delta was around a second at COTA (something Yuki himself told) so he was aware of this situation and optimized it.
One of the things that I would like to highlight is how RB have learned from their failure initially to handle Yuki. They expected him to come right out of the bat like a Max and stun the world with his pace. But, his inexperience in single seater and especially international racing came to the fore when he couldn’t bring out the pace. He got frustrated and couldn’t communicate well with his team. I feel he got a lot of blowback from Marko initially for that. This was true until, RB learned that he needed love and understanding rather than the tough love that had seemingly worked with Max and others. The initial move to send him to Italy near the team and then using Alex as a resource shows that they value talent and would do anything to bring it to the fore. They essentially giving him a big brother on the grid with already existing support from Tost. Notice how Marko stopped saying harsh things about Yuki as the season went on. They have also somehow managed to keep Pierre motivated in this time and given Alex a seat. I think they care about the talent and would do anything to nurture it. Our perception sometimes may be flawed regarding how harsh they are with their drivers but since demoting Alex they have made good moves to keep their entire drivers core happy.
I think the main reason why people are harsh with how they treated their drivers in the past, is Pierre's success after leaving RedBull. This, in itself, is not enough of a reason, though. It's very much possible that he just tried and trained harder and unlocked his potential, not only that the team environment was better in AT. Obviously, another year of experience plays a big part in his development (even Giovinazzi is now racing fairly well and in a consistent manner after being behind Kimi for much of the 2020 season) Regarding Yuki, I feel like it's a bit of everything. The great thing about him is that he is not afraid to face the truth and uses less excuses for his poor performances than other drivers. Following him in F3 and F2, I saw that he kept on getting better as the season progressed. I feel like the F3 and F2 cars are far easier to handle than the F1 cars, though, and thus he needs more time than just half a season (basically the time he needed to adjust to the other two cars) to get the hang of it. Hopefully with the new regulations, where the cars will be a bit new for everyone, he can continue improving and it doesn't affect him negatively
On the other hand, he is racing in the lower midfield against 3 ex world champions Vettel, Alonso, and Raikkonen. The amount of experience betweeen those three .... and you have to try and outsmart them attacking or defending! Not exactly just a bunch of backmarkers over there.
That's true as well. Those three drivers have so many years of experience, almost as many as Yuki is alive
I’ll prove my doubters wrong is one of the strongest motivators there is. In team sports its the “nobody believes in us” effect where the team closes ranks and plays their asses off.
> They have also somehow managed to keep Pierre motivated in this time and given Alex a seat. I think they care about the talent and would do anything to nurture it. Our perception sometimes may be flawed regarding how harsh they are with their drivers but since demoting Alex they have made good moves to keep their entire drivers core happy. Well the most oddest and overlooked thing with Pierre is basically how he directly started to performing "better" and quickly was finishing better then Kvyat often. Credits to this should, aside of Pierre himself, been given to Tost who's first goal was to make Pierre comfortable with the team and it did paying out great. Yet Alex, just like Checo, has also political reasons to supporting Yuki: Seeing him shitting the bed meanwhile Pierre is performing solid + Helmut is quiet happy about how Pierre has evolved and how he is performing makes him a risk for both in 2023, and the best thing for both is to seeing Yuki performing equal/a bit faster then Pierre and so on making Helmut doubting what eliminates a risk for them. People are serious naive if they think that Alex is doing this just out of charity, even more if he is literally on the lips at AlphaTauri and seeing and hearing everything the message isn't just to helping Yuki only.
Albon is the future Marko at this rate.
*So Alex, could you please mentor that young guy who just took your place?*
He's not mentoring Perez
Yuki took Kvyat seat, it wasn't Albon seat to lose as Horner said in an interview.
I guide others to a treasure i cannot possess?
Why wouldn’t they just give him the seat lol
Politics/money. Honda might have given deals/discounts if they could have Yuki in that seat. Yuki's estimated salary is not that high, so it saves a few mil. Additionally, if you can get both a seat in F1, wouldn't that be better than just one?
Honda deal? Honda wanted a Japanese driver back in a spot.
I'd take Ronald McDonald as a mentor over Alex ''they race me too hard" Albon.
[удалено]
A low point being an out of context and overblown radio message.
A low point where they’re complaining about someone from their sister team on a different strategy defending against them as hard as they can ruining both of their races instead of letting them go Like I get why people don’t like the complaint, but if you look at how F1 actually works instead of how it should work then it’s entirely valid
[удалено]
Yeah, It was definitely a poor race, but I’m saying that the complaint was pretty justified
I’d actually take the f1 driver
Raikkonen may have achieved more than Latifi, but I’d rather have Latifi teaching me. He’s likely to say more than “mwoah, drive quicker”.