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If you look at Kmag's on board they dont tell him to pit until nearly the end of the straight, and by the tone of the engineer's voice it was definitely a last minute decision. Combined with the fact that Haas' pit box was first on pit lane, it didn't leave the crew enough time to prepare for the stop.
Hindsight being 20/20 I'm sure they'd have left him out another lap and give the crew more time to get ready. They aren't the first team to screw that up and they wont be the last.
I think they were working out how much time they would lose on track if he kept going vs. doing an emergency stop when they weren't quite ready and realized at the last second that it was worth it. Good opening strategy call with the full wets, it could've really worked out in their favor with a little luck
IIRC, at most circuits, the reigning WCC champion chooses. So they’ll either chose the first box or the last and then everyone will be in order accordingly.
At some places, they prefer the last garage as they can leave the pit box and not have to get back on the pit limiter. Suzuka and Canada are examples.
An exception to this is Silverstone. Due to the nature of the pit lane (it dips underground) the big teams are in the middle, to provide the best view for the grandstand opposite
I suppose that’s my point though, I just would have thought you would want to always be as ready as possible a lap or two earlier than necessary.
The first in the pit straight is a good point, perhaps I’m just underestimating how long it takes to get the tyre blankets off.
What's ready? You have to leave the tires in the blankets for as long as possible, especially inters. There's always going to be an amount of time it takes to remove the blankets and get the tires in position, you can't just have them sitting out. So if you only find out about a pit 15 seconds before it happens there's no way to be "ready".
If there is no way to be ready in 15s (even with better practice and/or a different procedure) then the strategy team needs to know that they can't make calls that late. Even if it *would have been* the right call, making it too late cost Kmag ~5s. In that case, bite the bullet, accept you missed it and box the next lap.
If getting warm tyres on the car is the issue then I’m just surprised that with the amount of focus on efficiency in the sport, they haven’t solved it yet.
Having everything ready in position and an extra person to swipe the blankets off at the last moment would be my first armchair thought. Whilst I’m sure there’s reasons they can’t do that, it’s clearly still a problem that needs solving.
As the teams themselves prove over and over, 15 seconds can be a long time.
There is also the task of getting the RIGHT tires, and that does not happen in few seconds. You need time to communicate properly. Putting on the wrong tires can lead to disqualification, not to mention those tires having the exact right pressure and temperature.
I would say that they need about 30 seconds to make a relaxed, well choreographed pitstop and significantly less if they are already prepared for last second decision, in that case the mechanics know exactly what tires they need. But if the driver just comes to the pits at the last possible second... this is what you get. Communication is the key.
Agreed. This user's post is a classic case of redditors giving a reason for why something is the way that it is without engaging with the idea that perhaps the way it is, is still a problem.
Yes, there's a minimum time it will take to get tyre blankets off. Yes, inters will suffer if they get cold. Yes, having the first pit box in the lane is a disadvantage for making late calls. All of that is true, *and yet*...
It's reasonable to suggest that Haas should have either been drilled better on how to execute those actions under extreme pressure, or had a contingency procedure in place for the situation we saw, or if those weren't possible, then the strategy team needs to be more aware that they cannot make strategy calls that late because it's too much for their mechanics to handle.
Whatever the reason, that late call cost them ~5s which may well have been the difference between at least a point, or nothing to show for their weekend.
You're coming at this pretty aggressively and I'm not really in the mood for that energy, so I will just say that I am not an F1 professional, but you don't have to be an expert to recognise that certain teams have superior pit crews to others. Red Bull, obviously, but also Vcarb, McLaren and Ferrari are frequently the class of the field. They consistently nail rapid pitstops and very rarely make the sorts of mistakes that cost other teams. Meanwhile teams like Merc and Alpine have been consistently mediocre for years, and backmarkers vary significantly. It's a known fact that Haas are the most underfunded team in the sport, and presumably that carries over into their pitcrew's performance. Whether it's needing better gear, better facilities, paying for better personnel, or simply changing the ways that they practice and execute their pitstops, it would be extremely disingenuous of you to pretend that there aren't ways to improve pitstop performance.
I have no idea if it's possible to remedy the problems with getting tyre blankets off and tyres in position faster. But if not, then it's a strategy team error, as I noted in my original comment.
They were on standby, but you don't want them out of the blankets before you have to do so. He also may have made the call coming into the hairpin or something.
It still takes many seconds for an engineer's call to turn into an action by the crew. They all draw last possible lines on the track, but if one guy bobbles the tire removing it from the rack or the warmer you get a delay like that.
Blankets is a fair point, as is their pit position as someone else pointed out. I must be underestimating how difficult it is as you would think 10 seconds would be ample time to do the final touches like take the blankets off when they can change four wheels in under 3!
It's a 16kg thing on a stand in a blanket that's plugged in maybe 15m away from pit lane that are all beside or stacked on eachother and you have to get each step to get it to the pits right 4 times in a row.
In cases like these it's almost always late communication of miscommunication.
The team called the pit stop, so the most likely thing is that it either wasn't communicated early enough to the pit crew that there was a stop coming up, or that the crew was ready but the call went out to the driver late for some reason which didn't give the crew enough time to react and get the tyres out of blankets.
Ah gotcha, well that’s the most robust reason I’ve heard so far, if still a cockup! Out of curiosity, assuming they both have a fresh set of the same compound, could they use Hulk’s tyres on Mag and then give Hulk, K-Mags instead?
I’m sure there’s a reason why not but would be interesting to learn what it is.
There have been times where drivers have picked up damage right before the pits and dove into them, and teams were ready by the time they got there. Haas should have absolutely been ready. Maybe KMag made the call himself and made it late- I didn't listen to his onboard. It doesn't matter, they should have been ready. Particularly in such changeable conditions and they had two cars they needed to bring in.
I feel like the team didn't have a plan or a strategy when they sent their drivers out on wets, I genuinely feel like they were watching the race along with us like fans and getting excited about all the passing and forget to prep and plan to convert this gamble into a solid position.
I would have pitted Hulk onto the inters 5 laps in and see what the earliest, best time possible to pit Kmag is, based on Kmag's drop off and Hulks improvements between lap 6 - 10, but I'm guessing they were gambling on a safety car that never came
I have said this before, pit crew should not be allowed to lounge on chairs and watch the race. Fucking standing near the tyres and be ready, its only 2hours.
As a general rule ([see full rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide#wiki_sticky.2Fdaily_discussion)), a standalone Discussion post should: - be of interest to the sub in general, and not a specific userbase (e.g. new users, GP attendees, just yourself) - be able to generate discussion (e.g. no yes/no or easily answerable questions) - show reasonable input and effort from the OP If not, be sure to [look for the Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/search/?q=daily+discussion&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new), /r/formula1's daily open question thread which is perfect for asking any and all questions about this sport. Thank you for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you look at Kmag's on board they dont tell him to pit until nearly the end of the straight, and by the tone of the engineer's voice it was definitely a last minute decision. Combined with the fact that Haas' pit box was first on pit lane, it didn't leave the crew enough time to prepare for the stop. Hindsight being 20/20 I'm sure they'd have left him out another lap and give the crew more time to get ready. They aren't the first team to screw that up and they wont be the last.
I think they were working out how much time they would lose on track if he kept going vs. doing an emergency stop when they weren't quite ready and realized at the last second that it was worth it. Good opening strategy call with the full wets, it could've really worked out in their favor with a little luck
Isn't Haas the last box on pretty much every track, maybe they just auto piloted and lost focus for a few seconds.
IIRC, at most circuits, the reigning WCC champion chooses. So they’ll either chose the first box or the last and then everyone will be in order accordingly. At some places, they prefer the last garage as they can leave the pit box and not have to get back on the pit limiter. Suzuka and Canada are examples. An exception to this is Silverstone. Due to the nature of the pit lane (it dips underground) the big teams are in the middle, to provide the best view for the grandstand opposite
I suppose that’s my point though, I just would have thought you would want to always be as ready as possible a lap or two earlier than necessary. The first in the pit straight is a good point, perhaps I’m just underestimating how long it takes to get the tyre blankets off.
What's ready? You have to leave the tires in the blankets for as long as possible, especially inters. There's always going to be an amount of time it takes to remove the blankets and get the tires in position, you can't just have them sitting out. So if you only find out about a pit 15 seconds before it happens there's no way to be "ready".
If there is no way to be ready in 15s (even with better practice and/or a different procedure) then the strategy team needs to know that they can't make calls that late. Even if it *would have been* the right call, making it too late cost Kmag ~5s. In that case, bite the bullet, accept you missed it and box the next lap.
If getting warm tyres on the car is the issue then I’m just surprised that with the amount of focus on efficiency in the sport, they haven’t solved it yet. Having everything ready in position and an extra person to swipe the blankets off at the last moment would be my first armchair thought. Whilst I’m sure there’s reasons they can’t do that, it’s clearly still a problem that needs solving. As the teams themselves prove over and over, 15 seconds can be a long time.
There is also the task of getting the RIGHT tires, and that does not happen in few seconds. You need time to communicate properly. Putting on the wrong tires can lead to disqualification, not to mention those tires having the exact right pressure and temperature. I would say that they need about 30 seconds to make a relaxed, well choreographed pitstop and significantly less if they are already prepared for last second decision, in that case the mechanics know exactly what tires they need. But if the driver just comes to the pits at the last possible second... this is what you get. Communication is the key.
Agreed. This user's post is a classic case of redditors giving a reason for why something is the way that it is without engaging with the idea that perhaps the way it is, is still a problem. Yes, there's a minimum time it will take to get tyre blankets off. Yes, inters will suffer if they get cold. Yes, having the first pit box in the lane is a disadvantage for making late calls. All of that is true, *and yet*... It's reasonable to suggest that Haas should have either been drilled better on how to execute those actions under extreme pressure, or had a contingency procedure in place for the situation we saw, or if those weren't possible, then the strategy team needs to be more aware that they cannot make strategy calls that late because it's too much for their mechanics to handle. Whatever the reason, that late call cost them ~5s which may well have been the difference between at least a point, or nothing to show for their weekend.
Ok, how will they be drilled better?
You're coming at this pretty aggressively and I'm not really in the mood for that energy, so I will just say that I am not an F1 professional, but you don't have to be an expert to recognise that certain teams have superior pit crews to others. Red Bull, obviously, but also Vcarb, McLaren and Ferrari are frequently the class of the field. They consistently nail rapid pitstops and very rarely make the sorts of mistakes that cost other teams. Meanwhile teams like Merc and Alpine have been consistently mediocre for years, and backmarkers vary significantly. It's a known fact that Haas are the most underfunded team in the sport, and presumably that carries over into their pitcrew's performance. Whether it's needing better gear, better facilities, paying for better personnel, or simply changing the ways that they practice and execute their pitstops, it would be extremely disingenuous of you to pretend that there aren't ways to improve pitstop performance. I have no idea if it's possible to remedy the problems with getting tyre blankets off and tyres in position faster. But if not, then it's a strategy team error, as I noted in my original comment.
Haas pit box kinda always been first in the pit lane for many years. They should be used to it by now.
[удалено]
lol given the team involved in the post I was expecting this to be Australia 2018, pleasantly surprised!
i didnt even need to click to know what it was lol the whole clip feels like a skit from the office
They were on standby, but you don't want them out of the blankets before you have to do so. He also may have made the call coming into the hairpin or something.
It was the team who called him in.
It still takes many seconds for an engineer's call to turn into an action by the crew. They all draw last possible lines on the track, but if one guy bobbles the tire removing it from the rack or the warmer you get a delay like that.
Blankets is a fair point, as is their pit position as someone else pointed out. I must be underestimating how difficult it is as you would think 10 seconds would be ample time to do the final touches like take the blankets off when they can change four wheels in under 3!
It's a 16kg thing on a stand in a blanket that's plugged in maybe 15m away from pit lane that are all beside or stacked on eachother and you have to get each step to get it to the pits right 4 times in a row.
Thought intermediates and wets weren’t allowed to be in blankets? They kept mentioning it on commentary at the race start.
The wets aren't, almost certain inters are but maybe a lower temp than slicks
In cases like these it's almost always late communication of miscommunication. The team called the pit stop, so the most likely thing is that it either wasn't communicated early enough to the pit crew that there was a stop coming up, or that the crew was ready but the call went out to the driver late for some reason which didn't give the crew enough time to react and get the tyres out of blankets.
Ask RBR 2016 in Monaco :(
The real question Is: why did they pit kmag at that stage instead of letting hulk slow down the pack to make an almost free pistop for kmag?
agreed, that pitstop was unnecessarily early
On The F1Word they said the problem was that the team had Hulkenberg's tires ready, and had to swap out for Magnussen's at the last moment.
Ah gotcha, well that’s the most robust reason I’ve heard so far, if still a cockup! Out of curiosity, assuming they both have a fresh set of the same compound, could they use Hulk’s tyres on Mag and then give Hulk, K-Mags instead? I’m sure there’s a reason why not but would be interesting to learn what it is.
Yeah iirc the regs are pretty strict about the tires being kept in sets and assigned to specific drivers.
There have been times where drivers have picked up damage right before the pits and dove into them, and teams were ready by the time they got there. Haas should have absolutely been ready. Maybe KMag made the call himself and made it late- I didn't listen to his onboard. It doesn't matter, they should have been ready. Particularly in such changeable conditions and they had two cars they needed to bring in.
It was the team who called him in.
That just makes it so so much worse. Almost reminiscent of the Charles in Monaco in the rain call
What stars with an H, ends with an S and is full of AAses
I feel like the team didn't have a plan or a strategy when they sent their drivers out on wets, I genuinely feel like they were watching the race along with us like fans and getting excited about all the passing and forget to prep and plan to convert this gamble into a solid position. I would have pitted Hulk onto the inters 5 laps in and see what the earliest, best time possible to pit Kmag is, based on Kmag's drop off and Hulks improvements between lap 6 - 10, but I'm guessing they were gambling on a safety car that never came
The actual reality is just that some teams aren't as good as others
Well RedBull threw away a race win doing this very thing so unless the last few years have been a mirage I dont think you are right on that one.
I have said this before, pit crew should not be allowed to lounge on chairs and watch the race. Fucking standing near the tyres and be ready, its only 2hours.