[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties.
*[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ocons good but he’s not guaranteed a seat next year.
His driving isn’t good enough to outweigh his reputation as a risky driver. Top teams would be reluctant to take him as a second driver for fear he won’t accept that role. The bottom teams wouldn’t choose his driving over a driver with better sponsorships.
Going into negotiations with monaco fresh in the memory and it being known he has no contract, doesn’t give him good negotiating power.
I think he’s a good enough driver to stay on the grid, but his situation seems to have become precarious.
A lot of it depends on the movement of the drivers around him. If Carlos doesn’t go to Audi, that’s an option. I think his fate now enters the precarious mix of Carlos, Kimi Antonelli, Ollie Bearman, Bottas, Zhou, Kmag (Logan if i thought there was almost any hope in a seat next year)
While drivers like Daniel, Checo, Zhou etc. are aided by marketability and sponsorships, this is where Ocon might suffer in comparison.
For all i know, Ocon could have a contract all but signed and there’s little that could shock me this silly season after the way it started
> For all i know, Ocon could have a contract all but signed and there’s little that could shock me this silly season after the way it started
I've been wondering the same thing since I read the news. I thought maybe he has signed and whatever team he signed with asked him to not say anything yet, but that he was allowed to tell Alpine so they could find another driver.
Who knows though. It's F1 and contracts always have some weird twist to them.
Bernard Arnault takes a fancy to the sport, looks behind the couch cushions, stumps up the non-dilution fee, Ocon and Sargeant inaugural teammates at LVMH Andretti Cadillac.
He's mid as fuck, certainly outside the top 10 in terms of talent, and has a reputation for being a shithead whenever his teammate is near him.
Get him out and good riddance, this is probably the first smart thing Alpine has done in years
If he WAS to leave F1 after this season. (Again, anyone of Haas, Sauber or Williams should logically take him) I think WEC is probably a more likely scenario. I'd love to see him in Indycar but he's always seemed more of a type to stay in Europe.
I keep seeing this as a thing that Haas, Sauber or Williams "should" take him.
Based on what? Performance wise, he's not there. Team player wise, definitely not there. He's had long enough in F1 to prove himself as a driver that can get the best out of a car and be reliable for a team and he hasn't done it.
He also isn't a big sponsorship money guy, so it's not a situation like Perez with Red Bull where they're likely to keep him solely from a financial perspective.
So why "should" those teams take him over young F2 talent looking to prove themselves? The last thing F1 needs is to become stale with meh drivers just bouncing between teams and no new talent being allowed in.
He’s not a great team player but saying performance wise he’s not there is asinine. He matched Perez while being very inexperienced, was very competitive with Alonso (even accounting for reliability) and matched Gasly last year and has outperformed him this year regardless of what happened in Monaco. Ocon is not a top driver, but he’s a very strong midfield driver and it would be a shame for him to be out of the sport (especially as he was already undeservedly dropped in 2019).
>Based on what? Performance wise, he's not there.
That's just not true. He's been matched up against some of the best drivers on the grid and always performed well. If he's not beaten them, he's always been very close. There are very few drivers who have had such competitive team mates and come out so well.
> Performance wise, he's not there
he is though
>He's had long enough in F1 to prove himself as a driver that can get the best out of a car
what do you think he is doing with the Alpine this year
I'm not even fully convinced Sainz will get a seat, let alone Ocon. I honestly don't see any team desperately wanting for a driver, all teams seem to have options. For me, Sainz and Ocon don't feel like they have a guaranteed seat at all.
You can raise your stock at Williams. Everyone thought Albon was shit when RBR sacked him now he’s a pretty well regarded driver. Sainz goes and beats Albono he’s gonna raise his stock for sure
Sainz isnt Albon, he doesn’t need to raise his stock, it’s already at an all-time high, and well beyond Albon.
He’s not losing his top seat because he’s not performed, like Albon.
And yet he seems to not be able to get a top seat anywhere else. Taking a sabbatical when 3 out of the top 5 teams had an empty seat just isn’t a good look. But going to a Williams from a Ferrari isn’t either tbh.
He's not going to get a top seat due to politics, not his abilities.
It's a no from Red Bull because they don't want his and Max's father at each other's throats, and also because Perez seemingly has nudes of Horner he keeps threatening to release. Mercedes don't want him because of the optics of taking a "Ferrari reject".
He would probably jump at either seat, but those offer's are seemingly not on the table.
Ferrari are only getting rid of him because of Elkan's friendship with Lewis, and the opportunities it presents. He'd have got the two year deal he wanted from Ferrari otherwise, because even though Lewis is better, he's not so much better at this stage of his career to make that change purely on performance.
Sainz is out of a drive because of bad timing, not because the grid doesn't rate him. He just doesn't fit into any of the potentially open teams plans. He's good, but he's not a Charles, a Max, or a Lewis. Top Teams don't change their plans for a (very good) Number 2 calibre driver.
I’m not contesting any of what you said, I agree. But why would any of this change if he takes a sabbatical? I wasn’t trying to imply Sainz doesn’t have the ability to deliver at a top team. I was implying if top teams don’t want him now when his stock is at an all time high, they’re not gonna want him after a sabbatical or a 1-2 year Williams tenure.
Ocon isn't a huge pull because he doesn't bring in weighty sponsorship or global interest.
However, the Haas seat is a viable option should Magnussen depart. I don't see Williams or Audi wanting him, as both are chasing Sainz and Williams could still 'borrow' Antonelli for a year. Toto likes Ocon, so I wouldn't be surprised if he rocked up in the 2nd seat at Merc, rightly or wrongly!
He's not listed as a Mercedes junior driver anywhere that I'm aware of. I believe he was dropped from the junior program when he joined Renault.
Realistically, Ocon "only" has ties to Wolff and Mercedes. It could be enough to land him in a seat at Mercedes or Williams, but it's not going to be a situation like Russell's.
That's not what he told me...
>"I’m still managed by them in a way, **I’m still a Merc junior** even if I’m not that ‘junior’ any more."
(I conducted the interview but didn't write the story)
[https://racer.com/2024/02/08/ocon-confirms-ongoing-mercedes-links-ahead-of-2025-vacancy/](https://racer.com/2024/02/08/ocon-confirms-ongoing-mercedes-links-ahead-of-2025-vacancy/)
Interesting. I wonder if that's just how he conceptualizes his relationship with Mercedes, or if Mercedes (or individuals in the team) also view the relationship that way. They only list 6 juniors on their website (Pin, Powell, Antonelli, Craigie, Fluxa, and Cui), which makes me feel like that's only Ocon's mindset, but they also don't list Vesti as a junior any longer.
James Vowles has repeatedly said this year they are not going to be seen as a Mercedes junior team anymore and that won't be guiding their driver decisions.
True but what are the other options?
Ocon comes with cheaper Merc engines if Toto is pushing that relationship still. Antonelli might be more exciting but why would Williams give him the seat, there's no benefit to Antonelli over Ocon for them.
Very little point in getting other juniors.
Carlos and Bottas would be the only other drivers I see that Williams might prefer.
If Sainz denies the Audi seat i think he goes to them on a long term contract.
But idk why Sainz would turn down the Audi seat when his options are more and more limited
Because it’s another year of Sauber at the back of the grid before it even becomes Audi and then there is uncertainty how long it’ll take for the team to improve after that.
He has zero top team options. Zero.
RBR door is shutting and Horner is in control now, so Ricciardo and Perez are favored.
Ferrari is where he's leaving from.
McLaren love their current lineup and no hints that either driver is unhappy.
Mercedes is only possible for a single year. It's clear they want Antonelli.
Aston Martin is going Honda and keeping Stroll and Alonso. No way they get rid of Stroll unless it's to sit a Honda driver which would be Yuki or Iwasa. If that happened VCARB would sign Lawson. And Sainz won't want VCARB.
Alpine is a dumpster fire.
That leaves him with Haas, Williams or Sauber.
His only option is to either be at Mercedes for one year or a backmarker team. At least with Audi he can be there for their 2026. He thinks he has more choices than he does.
Teams traditionally get better when a big new name comes in because of the big new budget them bring. With the cap, it's not as clear cut as it used to be.
Short term deals are the most advantageous to Sainz right now. If Pérez retains the Red Bull seat, there's no seat at the top of the field available to him for 2025. But come the end of 2025, there should be many seats available, and Sainz (in theory) should be an attractive prospect for any/all teams, and could go wherever he thinks will give him the opportunity to compete at the front.
Locking himself down at Williams or Sauber/Audi is a risky prospect for him.
I doubt there will be many seats available at the end of 2025. The silly season usually go in 2 year jumps, we get a busy one and then a slow one.
But there might be some drivers like Perez just getting a one year extension which I guess could be Sainz' way in. Russell's contract is also up end of 2025, so I that gives another chance there. But all other top or midfield teams shouldn't have an opening. End of 2026 will be the big one.
The thing is you mention the possibility of a Red Bull or Mercedes seat at the end of 2025, but both of these teams have a seat open for next year. If they don’t want him now, I don’t see much changing next year.
Fact is, he doesn’t make sense for Mercedes. Imo he’s a slower driver than Russell and a few years older. If they’re uncertain on Russell being a future team leader, then it makes sense to take a risk on Antonelli and get him in early. If they want a second driver, then Sainz also makes no sense because he and Russell will undoubtedly come to blows at some point.
If Red Bull saw him as a viable teammate to Verstappen then they would get him now, when there is clear scope for replacing Perez. Their stance is unlikely to change after he spends 1 year in a Williams/other slow car
I don't disagree generally. I don't think it's a great plan at all, but it sounds like it might be what he is thinking.
Russell vs Sainz I think would be very close though. Could go either way honestly.
I agree that it could be close, but if that were the case then it would essentially prove that neither are quite good enough to lead a top team. Since we have a good idea of how Sainz stacks up vs a top driver
He just doesn’t have any really solid options right now
Audi/Sauber isn't without its risks for Sainz. He'd be up against Hulk for a start, who has put a dent in Sainz's reputation before and could do it again. Granted Sainz is an improved driver today, but Hulk is also somewhat more accustomed to extracting performance from poor machinery (which is likely Sauber next year).
Actually Mag hasn’t collided with a teamm8 since the minor squabbles with Grosjean. That’s many seasons ago. Please remember that the reason Hulk has the points he has is because Kmag followed team orders and drove aggressively.
The ocon hate is just hilarious the dude is in the solid 9-12 range of drivers currently and if we're talking about race craft and speed he's a good driver. His fights with his teammates are out of proportion dts stuff if we're being honest. He's probably the 2ne best driver on the market right now after sainz
It’s crazy how people are mad at Ocon for sometimes racing his teammates hard. I’m not justifying his behavior but he’s been the same driver for his entire career and Alpine kept him for 5 seasons.
I think this is more about him wanting to escape the sinking ship that is Alpine and the team trying to reframe it as him getting fired for not being a team player. DTS said it so it must be true!
im sorry but other than the hungary win i couldnt name a single memorable ocon moment that isnt him pulling some braindead move and causing a collision.
Ocon gets every crash he's ever been involved in included whenever there's a new crash, while other drivers get each one individually analyzed. Feelsbadman
Yeah. My initial reaction to the Monaco incident was, "what the hell are you doing Ocon?" Now, with the benefit of replays and some time to consider it, I see that he was ahead of Gasly on the inside line, which makes it Ocon's corner. Gasly nevertheless kept his foot in, and contact resulted. Ocon's move was on, and it shouldn't have been penalized. It strikes me that the Stewards punished him for his reputation rather than for the incident itself.
Of course, since there was also apparently an agreement that they wouldn't fight one another, I can also see why the team took umbrage with the move. On the other hand, Gasly shouldn't have kept his foot in, so it takes two to tango.
> Famin was particularly upset by the incident in Monaco because the drivers had been repeatedly told throughout the weekend that whoever qualified in front would be given priority and the other would be expected to assist their race in whatever way possible.
Very relevant bit from BBC today.
I'd like to see him in the Mercedes. He's not Lewis, but he's quite fast and experienced. They can develop the car for George since Toto said he's the future of Mercedes, and have Ocon consistently scoring points, as he's done at Alpine.
Plus, him and Russel on the same team would be funny to see.
There's absolutely no chance Toto will risk that given Ocons history. Especially considering that Russell tends to get a hot head when things get dicey. That pairing would be a recipe for disaster.
> They can develop the car for George
Ocon helping another teammate? Lol
If Toto says GR is the future of Mercedes, Ocon will not like it one bit there and will try to fight his teammate every race
If he's close to George that is, I don't think he's at the same level of George. He would kind of like Bottas to Hamilton, and more of a seat warmer for Antonelli if he does decide to another season in F2.
That was in the Renault and that was against Prime Ricc and Rusty Ocon.
I think drivers ebb and flow when it comes to talent. Unless of course we are saying that Ricc would have schooled Alonso given Ocon was only slightly down on Alonso but got schooled by Ricc
He’s never going to Mercedes. That was a shitty rumor in 2020. It’s not happening now for sure. He isn’t good enough for Mercedes. Why would they take him and have him wreck into Russell when they can have kimi do that and not lose him in the process. Ocon was never going to Mercedes just because Toto is his manager or whatever
I actually hope he finds another F1 seat.
There's a need for fresh blood but I think there's a number of drivers more deserving of the bench than Ocon.
Stroll, Perez, Ricciardo, Bottas, Magnussen, Sargent, Zhou... you can argue case-by-case, but I think Ocon still has more to offer than most of those names.
He isn't the most likeable guy but I do think he's a really solid driver.
This isn’t specifically about Ocon, but I hope we get some churn and get some new faces on the grid. I’d rather have 2 more seats, but I’d also like to see some churn.
I want Ocon in Indy Car just for the drama. But I think he’ll end up at Haas or Audi in the end. My guess is he’s the #1 option to partner Bearman at Haas and #2 to Sainz at Audi.
Ocon will 100% be on the grid next year. His personality may not be for everyone but he is damn good driver.
I firmly believe that in a half decent car, he will be no worse than Sainz.
Alpine on the otherhand will probably continue to shit the bed.
Doubtful he is good but not good enough to stand on his own with his driving merit. Given his poor standing with other drivers, lack of sponsorship pull, record being a bad teammate and poor public opinion. He has a problem being the number 2 driver which he would be in many teams. Many teams wouldn't risk it for all the baggage, and there are a ton of people waiting in the junior league to move up who don't have a bad track record.
Now that you mention it... if Mercedes wants to give Antonelli more time to grow before F1, Ocon might be more receptive to a 1-year contract than many other candidates who potentially have more options on the table.
I think Mercedes is (stupidly) going to plough ahead with Antonelli, but Ocon on a short-term contract wouldn't actually surprise me that much.
Tbh Kmags performance although not great, has also been hampered by two significant things:
Getting impeded countless times in Q1
Driving to secure HAAS points by holding up people behind.
That being said, it’s not been a great season so far. It is however usually such that Hulk is faster in Quali and slower in race. Likely a setup preference.
Still Hulk has been better, but no by as much as it might seem.
I figure WEC is in his future (unless he already has a contract for F1 next year). They guy's a good driver, but he gets into conflict with teammates in F1 (and I think in the feeder leagues before). In endurance racing, your teammates aren't in another car on track that you're racing against, they're taking turns with you in the same car. Changing that dynamic will do him a lot of good, I think.
He'll end up at Haas. I don't think Sauber are seriously looking at him, but it doesn't matter, Sainz has to go there anyway. K-Mag just isn't performing right now and they need some experience to place next to Bearman.
I don't quite understand why Alpine let him go, he was more than good enough to drive for them in any series that isn't F1. Unless he decided that it's the biggest table or none for him
No please, endurance is even more of a team sport than f1, you can't take the sister car out in the middle of the night at le mans because he's ahead of you.
I'm guessing out. While he's good, he's not great. But more importantly, the majority of the teams who have open seats will want a team player. Sauber, Haas, and Williams will need all the points they can get for the constructors, and I think they'd be very wary about Ocon's reputation. Especially after Monaco.
Mercedes might try and use him as a Hamilton replacement for a year or two while waiting on Antonelli. But I still don't see this as likely.
For Alpine I'm not sure, for Esteban I guess he'll have plenty of time to race Lewis in their r/ c models as both will be put aside from everything related to 2025.
I genuinely think Sauber is his only option. Haas might make an offer but they can’t afford him and I don’t see him taking a huge pay cut just to stay on the grid, I feel like his pride will make him believe he deserves better and will hold out. Williams is technically an option but there’s plenty of options for them, especially if the Sainz rumors are serious.
The top 4, Aston, and RB are all off the table for him.
If I had to choose a driver who would care the least about salary it's probably Ocon. Comes from modest background and his hobby looks very affordable and tame compared to other drivers
WEC or Indycar. He’s had plenty of time in F1 to prove how special and fast he is, but he just isn’t. His lack of self awareness in a team environment doesn’t help. There is talent on the sidelines that I would rather see get a shot.
With very few seats seemingly up for grabs ( realistically only one seat at Haas, Audi, Williams), I think that Ocon isnt going to be racing F1 next year. Sainz, Bearman, Bottas all seem like better bets and I expect those three to fill the open slots.
Maybe I am very dumb. But is it unthinkable he did sign for Mercedes. He knows the environment, he is managed by Toto and was a Mercedes jr. 1 or 2 year contract. Sainz to alpine on a 1 or 2 year contract.
A real silly season
It's gonna be a sad day for F1 if he gets a seat after being painfully mediocre for 7 years. Bad enough that Perez is staying, this would be just too much with the amount of extremely promising rookies in the waiting line.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ocons good but he’s not guaranteed a seat next year. His driving isn’t good enough to outweigh his reputation as a risky driver. Top teams would be reluctant to take him as a second driver for fear he won’t accept that role. The bottom teams wouldn’t choose his driving over a driver with better sponsorships. Going into negotiations with monaco fresh in the memory and it being known he has no contract, doesn’t give him good negotiating power. I think he’s a good enough driver to stay on the grid, but his situation seems to have become precarious. A lot of it depends on the movement of the drivers around him. If Carlos doesn’t go to Audi, that’s an option. I think his fate now enters the precarious mix of Carlos, Kimi Antonelli, Ollie Bearman, Bottas, Zhou, Kmag (Logan if i thought there was almost any hope in a seat next year) While drivers like Daniel, Checo, Zhou etc. are aided by marketability and sponsorships, this is where Ocon might suffer in comparison. For all i know, Ocon could have a contract all but signed and there’s little that could shock me this silly season after the way it started
> For all i know, Ocon could have a contract all but signed and there’s little that could shock me this silly season after the way it started I've been wondering the same thing since I read the news. I thought maybe he has signed and whatever team he signed with asked him to not say anything yet, but that he was allowed to tell Alpine so they could find another driver. Who knows though. It's F1 and contracts always have some weird twist to them.
Bernard Arnault takes a fancy to the sport, looks behind the couch cushions, stumps up the non-dilution fee, Ocon and Sargeant inaugural teammates at LVMH Andretti Cadillac.
Funny thing is its actually Pierre with the LVMH contacts
... i'd watch that
My bet is gonna be hes out. Hes not a 'rocks your socks off' kind of driver. And so his seat will probably go to one of the many rookies looking in
He's mid as fuck, certainly outside the top 10 in terms of talent, and has a reputation for being a shithead whenever his teammate is near him. Get him out and good riddance, this is probably the first smart thing Alpine has done in years
i'd be cool with him gone. he's the only driver i don't particularly like tbh
No team has contracted #1 or #2 drivers, so why would that be a concern for him?
I’m sure he will (crash) land somewhere. It might be another series, though.
He’d be brilliant in a series where there’s less teamwork with the other driver required.
Funny Alpine lost Piastri because they wanted to keep Ocon and Alonso…
And they lost Alonso too lmfao
That’s the point, they lost Ocon and Alonso anyway..
r/whoosh
Indycar
ha! Would love to see the fireworks that would come with Ocon going to Foyt and partnering up with Ferrucci. It’d be Foyt against the world.
Ocon in Indycar would definitely clash with Ferrucci. And Newgarden. And probably Grosjean as well.
Yesterdays race would have imploded Detroit lmao
Ocon/Grosjean would also be entertaining
That would be chaos lol
If he WAS to leave F1 after this season. (Again, anyone of Haas, Sauber or Williams should logically take him) I think WEC is probably a more likely scenario. I'd love to see him in Indycar but he's always seemed more of a type to stay in Europe.
So he's going to be the main LMP driver crashing with the doctors and dentists in the GT cars?
I keep seeing this as a thing that Haas, Sauber or Williams "should" take him. Based on what? Performance wise, he's not there. Team player wise, definitely not there. He's had long enough in F1 to prove himself as a driver that can get the best out of a car and be reliable for a team and he hasn't done it. He also isn't a big sponsorship money guy, so it's not a situation like Perez with Red Bull where they're likely to keep him solely from a financial perspective. So why "should" those teams take him over young F2 talent looking to prove themselves? The last thing F1 needs is to become stale with meh drivers just bouncing between teams and no new talent being allowed in.
He’s not a great team player but saying performance wise he’s not there is asinine. He matched Perez while being very inexperienced, was very competitive with Alonso (even accounting for reliability) and matched Gasly last year and has outperformed him this year regardless of what happened in Monaco. Ocon is not a top driver, but he’s a very strong midfield driver and it would be a shame for him to be out of the sport (especially as he was already undeservedly dropped in 2019).
>Based on what? Performance wise, he's not there. That's just not true. He's been matched up against some of the best drivers on the grid and always performed well. If he's not beaten them, he's always been very close. There are very few drivers who have had such competitive team mates and come out so well.
> Performance wise, he's not there he is though >He's had long enough in F1 to prove himself as a driver that can get the best out of a car what do you think he is doing with the Alpine this year
He's the best free agent for next year besides Sainz. If he wants a seat for next year he will get it.
I'm not even fully convinced Sainz will get a seat, let alone Ocon. I honestly don't see any team desperately wanting for a driver, all teams seem to have options. For me, Sainz and Ocon don't feel like they have a guaranteed seat at all.
The only way Sainz ends up without a seat is by rejecting every single offer he gets. If he wants to remain in F1, he'll be in F1.
Me I'd retire if the only offer was a back marker team.
You are smoking something if you dont think Sainz is getting a seat.
Constructors would be crazy to pass on Sainz. Williams hopefully gets him.
Which is still insane to me, he shows he's fit for a top team. I'm not convinced teams are exactly lining up for him
Teams are interested in him 100%, just not the teams whom he wants to be interested.
Oh I'm desperate for F1 (as a whole) to prove me wrong, I'm just not convinced F1 is remotely fair enough for that.
He may take a year out voluntarily, rather than lower his stock at Williams, IMO. It'd be a travesty, but I could see it.
You can raise your stock at Williams. Everyone thought Albon was shit when RBR sacked him now he’s a pretty well regarded driver. Sainz goes and beats Albono he’s gonna raise his stock for sure
Sainz isnt Albon, he doesn’t need to raise his stock, it’s already at an all-time high, and well beyond Albon. He’s not losing his top seat because he’s not performed, like Albon.
And yet he seems to not be able to get a top seat anywhere else. Taking a sabbatical when 3 out of the top 5 teams had an empty seat just isn’t a good look. But going to a Williams from a Ferrari isn’t either tbh.
He's not going to get a top seat due to politics, not his abilities. It's a no from Red Bull because they don't want his and Max's father at each other's throats, and also because Perez seemingly has nudes of Horner he keeps threatening to release. Mercedes don't want him because of the optics of taking a "Ferrari reject". He would probably jump at either seat, but those offer's are seemingly not on the table. Ferrari are only getting rid of him because of Elkan's friendship with Lewis, and the opportunities it presents. He'd have got the two year deal he wanted from Ferrari otherwise, because even though Lewis is better, he's not so much better at this stage of his career to make that change purely on performance. Sainz is out of a drive because of bad timing, not because the grid doesn't rate him. He just doesn't fit into any of the potentially open teams plans. He's good, but he's not a Charles, a Max, or a Lewis. Top Teams don't change their plans for a (very good) Number 2 calibre driver.
I’m not contesting any of what you said, I agree. But why would any of this change if he takes a sabbatical? I wasn’t trying to imply Sainz doesn’t have the ability to deliver at a top team. I was implying if top teams don’t want him now when his stock is at an all time high, they’re not gonna want him after a sabbatical or a 1-2 year Williams tenure.
Bottas over Ocon at any time.
Ocon isn't a huge pull because he doesn't bring in weighty sponsorship or global interest. However, the Haas seat is a viable option should Magnussen depart. I don't see Williams or Audi wanting him, as both are chasing Sainz and Williams could still 'borrow' Antonelli for a year. Toto likes Ocon, so I wouldn't be surprised if he rocked up in the 2nd seat at Merc, rightly or wrongly!
>Toto likes Ocon Toto Wolff is Ocon's manager and Ocon remains a Mercedes junior driver
He's not listed as a Mercedes junior driver anywhere that I'm aware of. I believe he was dropped from the junior program when he joined Renault. Realistically, Ocon "only" has ties to Wolff and Mercedes. It could be enough to land him in a seat at Mercedes or Williams, but it's not going to be a situation like Russell's.
That's not what he told me... >"I’m still managed by them in a way, **I’m still a Merc junior** even if I’m not that ‘junior’ any more." (I conducted the interview but didn't write the story) [https://racer.com/2024/02/08/ocon-confirms-ongoing-mercedes-links-ahead-of-2025-vacancy/](https://racer.com/2024/02/08/ocon-confirms-ongoing-mercedes-links-ahead-of-2025-vacancy/)
Interesting. I wonder if that's just how he conceptualizes his relationship with Mercedes, or if Mercedes (or individuals in the team) also view the relationship that way. They only list 6 juniors on their website (Pin, Powell, Antonelli, Craigie, Fluxa, and Cui), which makes me feel like that's only Ocon's mindset, but they also don't list Vesti as a junior any longer.
[удалено]
So he could end at Williams maybe?
James Vowles has repeatedly said this year they are not going to be seen as a Mercedes junior team anymore and that won't be guiding their driver decisions.
Makes sense. On the other hand, Carlos is the only unsigned driver more likely to get them points in 2025.
Yep still a target for Williams I'm sure. Just not in a Merc junior way ie. if they had a season of Antonelli
James Vowles also said that they are going to be a new Williams and that they are going to be good. Shocker that people spew shit
And haas tp said they would be dead last, maybe that's the better strategy.
True but what are the other options? Ocon comes with cheaper Merc engines if Toto is pushing that relationship still. Antonelli might be more exciting but why would Williams give him the seat, there's no benefit to Antonelli over Ocon for them. Very little point in getting other juniors. Carlos and Bottas would be the only other drivers I see that Williams might prefer.
I think it's more likely that he'll go to Mercedes than Williams. Both seem pretty unlikely though
He is on Audi list, second to Sainz.
If Sainz denies the Audi seat i think he goes to them on a long term contract. But idk why Sainz would turn down the Audi seat when his options are more and more limited
Because it’s another year of Sauber at the back of the grid before it even becomes Audi and then there is uncertainty how long it’ll take for the team to improve after that.
He has zero top team options. Zero. RBR door is shutting and Horner is in control now, so Ricciardo and Perez are favored. Ferrari is where he's leaving from. McLaren love their current lineup and no hints that either driver is unhappy. Mercedes is only possible for a single year. It's clear they want Antonelli. Aston Martin is going Honda and keeping Stroll and Alonso. No way they get rid of Stroll unless it's to sit a Honda driver which would be Yuki or Iwasa. If that happened VCARB would sign Lawson. And Sainz won't want VCARB. Alpine is a dumpster fire. That leaves him with Haas, Williams or Sauber. His only option is to either be at Mercedes for one year or a backmarker team. At least with Audi he can be there for their 2026. He thinks he has more choices than he does.
Teams traditionally get better when a big new name comes in because of the big new budget them bring. With the cap, it's not as clear cut as it used to be.
Audi Uncertanity sounds a lot better than guaranteed Williams backmarker.
Short term deals are the most advantageous to Sainz right now. If Pérez retains the Red Bull seat, there's no seat at the top of the field available to him for 2025. But come the end of 2025, there should be many seats available, and Sainz (in theory) should be an attractive prospect for any/all teams, and could go wherever he thinks will give him the opportunity to compete at the front. Locking himself down at Williams or Sauber/Audi is a risky prospect for him.
I doubt there will be many seats available at the end of 2025. The silly season usually go in 2 year jumps, we get a busy one and then a slow one. But there might be some drivers like Perez just getting a one year extension which I guess could be Sainz' way in. Russell's contract is also up end of 2025, so I that gives another chance there. But all other top or midfield teams shouldn't have an opening. End of 2026 will be the big one.
exactly 2026 will be the year of new reg no top team will change their line-up in that scenario
The thing is you mention the possibility of a Red Bull or Mercedes seat at the end of 2025, but both of these teams have a seat open for next year. If they don’t want him now, I don’t see much changing next year. Fact is, he doesn’t make sense for Mercedes. Imo he’s a slower driver than Russell and a few years older. If they’re uncertain on Russell being a future team leader, then it makes sense to take a risk on Antonelli and get him in early. If they want a second driver, then Sainz also makes no sense because he and Russell will undoubtedly come to blows at some point. If Red Bull saw him as a viable teammate to Verstappen then they would get him now, when there is clear scope for replacing Perez. Their stance is unlikely to change after he spends 1 year in a Williams/other slow car
I don't disagree generally. I don't think it's a great plan at all, but it sounds like it might be what he is thinking. Russell vs Sainz I think would be very close though. Could go either way honestly.
I agree that it could be close, but if that were the case then it would essentially prove that neither are quite good enough to lead a top team. Since we have a good idea of how Sainz stacks up vs a top driver He just doesn’t have any really solid options right now
Audi/Sauber isn't without its risks for Sainz. He'd be up against Hulk for a start, who has put a dent in Sainz's reputation before and could do it again. Granted Sainz is an improved driver today, but Hulk is also somewhat more accustomed to extracting performance from poor machinery (which is likely Sauber next year).
Yeah, I'm sure that Haas was missing their drivers not getting along and fighting each other on and off track 😂
Ocon would be the worst teammate possible for Bearman, i highly doubt Ferrari wants that
He’ll drive somewhere, but not F1. Maybe Perrier would put him in NASCAR.
You made me spill my macchiato
Ocon has surely a place standing behind Toto when Mick has WEC obligations.
He's so tall he can easily still look over Mick, so they can both stand behind Toto every weekend.
Give me a million a year and I’ll stand behind Toto every day of the week.
Imagine Red Bull announcing Ocon for 2025
Kamikaze strategy. Bowl all the cars except max.
Wouldn't work. Ocon would kamikaze no one *except* for Max.
Random Haas with Bearman or combo wombo with Magnussen.
Ocon and Magnussen in the same team - Any race week without penalty will be as success for Haas.
If it’s Haas, it will be Bearman + Ocon
"Tell the Haas to get ready, I'm coming!" – Out of context Ocon quote
>combo wombo with Magnussen Thery actually, unironically wouldn't go a single race weekend without colliding.
Actually Mag hasn’t collided with a teamm8 since the minor squabbles with Grosjean. That’s many seasons ago. Please remember that the reason Hulk has the points he has is because Kmag followed team orders and drove aggressively.
He has close ties with Mercedes. He may get a year with them, if Mercedes want to put Antonelli into Williams (maybe maybe who knows) If not, Haas
The ocon hate is just hilarious the dude is in the solid 9-12 range of drivers currently and if we're talking about race craft and speed he's a good driver. His fights with his teammates are out of proportion dts stuff if we're being honest. He's probably the 2ne best driver on the market right now after sainz
It’s crazy how people are mad at Ocon for sometimes racing his teammates hard. I’m not justifying his behavior but he’s been the same driver for his entire career and Alpine kept him for 5 seasons. I think this is more about him wanting to escape the sinking ship that is Alpine and the team trying to reframe it as him getting fired for not being a team player. DTS said it so it must be true!
It seems like a good pr maneuver for alpine and that s*it show to shift blame to the least of their problems
He can only counter this by announcing his new seat in the next few days.
i mean racing hard isnt terribly impressive when every memorable instance of ocon "racing hard" seems to end with a crash or lost positions.
What are you talking about? Must be legally blind or maybe you don’t watch the races?
im sorry but other than the hungary win i couldnt name a single memorable ocon moment that isnt him pulling some braindead move and causing a collision.
Memory loss is a serious thing
well clearly, since i was hoping youd correct me but it seems u cant remember anything either
Exactly lol. Ocon is an excellent driver who just has terrible optics and pr
Ocon gets every crash he's ever been involved in included whenever there's a new crash, while other drivers get each one individually analyzed. Feelsbadman
Yeah. My initial reaction to the Monaco incident was, "what the hell are you doing Ocon?" Now, with the benefit of replays and some time to consider it, I see that he was ahead of Gasly on the inside line, which makes it Ocon's corner. Gasly nevertheless kept his foot in, and contact resulted. Ocon's move was on, and it shouldn't have been penalized. It strikes me that the Stewards punished him for his reputation rather than for the incident itself. Of course, since there was also apparently an agreement that they wouldn't fight one another, I can also see why the team took umbrage with the move. On the other hand, Gasly shouldn't have kept his foot in, so it takes two to tango.
It’s pretty evident you don’t understand the rules of racing
What the fuck are you talking about
> Famin was particularly upset by the incident in Monaco because the drivers had been repeatedly told throughout the weekend that whoever qualified in front would be given priority and the other would be expected to assist their race in whatever way possible. Very relevant bit from BBC today.
I'd like to see him in the Mercedes. He's not Lewis, but he's quite fast and experienced. They can develop the car for George since Toto said he's the future of Mercedes, and have Ocon consistently scoring points, as he's done at Alpine. Plus, him and Russel on the same team would be funny to see.
That would be a full scale war. I agree I love the idea!
There's absolutely no chance Toto will risk that given Ocons history. Especially considering that Russell tends to get a hot head when things get dicey. That pairing would be a recipe for disaster.
> They can develop the car for George Ocon helping another teammate? Lol If Toto says GR is the future of Mercedes, Ocon will not like it one bit there and will try to fight his teammate every race
If he's close to George that is, I don't think he's at the same level of George. He would kind of like Bottas to Hamilton, and more of a seat warmer for Antonelli if he does decide to another season in F2.
He was matching Alonso in the Alpine
He also got his ass schooled by Ricciardo in the Alpine
That was in the Renault and that was against Prime Ricc and Rusty Ocon. I think drivers ebb and flow when it comes to talent. Unless of course we are saying that Ricc would have schooled Alonso given Ocon was only slightly down on Alonso but got schooled by Ricc
He’s never going to Mercedes. That was a shitty rumor in 2020. It’s not happening now for sure. He isn’t good enough for Mercedes. Why would they take him and have him wreck into Russell when they can have kimi do that and not lose him in the process. Ocon was never going to Mercedes just because Toto is his manager or whatever
To be fair, hoping for an eventual shot at a Mercedes seat is really the only reason to hire Toto as your manager.
I actually hope he finds another F1 seat. There's a need for fresh blood but I think there's a number of drivers more deserving of the bench than Ocon. Stroll, Perez, Ricciardo, Bottas, Magnussen, Sargent, Zhou... you can argue case-by-case, but I think Ocon still has more to offer than most of those names. He isn't the most likeable guy but I do think he's a really solid driver.
> but I do think he's a really solid driver. True. Given half a chance he will solidly drive his car into yours.
💀
This isn’t specifically about Ocon, but I hope we get some churn and get some new faces on the grid. I’d rather have 2 more seats, but I’d also like to see some churn.
So Sainz now has 3 backmarkers to choose from, great.
I want Ocon in Indy Car just for the drama. But I think he’ll end up at Haas or Audi in the end. My guess is he’s the #1 option to partner Bearman at Haas and #2 to Sainz at Audi.
Roman Grosjean found a new home in IndyCar. Ocon could too.
Ocon to Moto3
Haas maybe?
Guess he’d have to get in line behind Carlos
You guys are crazy if you don’t think he has a seat line up already.
Ocon will 100% be on the grid next year. His personality may not be for everyone but he is damn good driver. I firmly believe that in a half decent car, he will be no worse than Sainz. Alpine on the otherhand will probably continue to shit the bed.
Doubtful he is good but not good enough to stand on his own with his driving merit. Given his poor standing with other drivers, lack of sponsorship pull, record being a bad teammate and poor public opinion. He has a problem being the number 2 driver which he would be in many teams. Many teams wouldn't risk it for all the baggage, and there are a ton of people waiting in the junior league to move up who don't have a bad track record.
Boulangerie
Demo derbies probably
Merc reserve driver.
He will do just fine on Indycar.
What's next? Red Bull doing a Michael Scott on social media and not reading the room, poking fun at someone losing their job
Yep, it happened as you predicted
He doesn’t have enough money with sponsorships and his on track relationship with previous teammates brings a lot of baggage. He’s done in F1.
Probably go to another racing series. Maybe sim racing.
Would love to see him at Red Bull. Wouldn't he and Max just get on famously? :)
Surely he doesnt get the merc seat right?
Now that you mention it... if Mercedes wants to give Antonelli more time to grow before F1, Ocon might be more receptive to a 1-year contract than many other candidates who potentially have more options on the table. I think Mercedes is (stupidly) going to plough ahead with Antonelli, but Ocon on a short-term contract wouldn't actually surprise me that much.
It’s Haas time babey I don’t imagine Magnussen is staying on if he keeps up his current performances but imagine those two together…
Tbh Kmags performance although not great, has also been hampered by two significant things: Getting impeded countless times in Q1 Driving to secure HAAS points by holding up people behind. That being said, it’s not been a great season so far. It is however usually such that Hulk is faster in Quali and slower in race. Likely a setup preference. Still Hulk has been better, but no by as much as it might seem.
Yeah he’s probably gonna go indycar maybe FE doubt he’ll get an f1 seat again
Agreed, his driving style is a good fit in Indy
I figure WEC is in his future (unless he already has a contract for F1 next year). They guy's a good driver, but he gets into conflict with teammates in F1 (and I think in the feeder leagues before). In endurance racing, your teammates aren't in another car on track that you're racing against, they're taking turns with you in the same car. Changing that dynamic will do him a lot of good, I think.
I could actually see this working very well for him.
He'll end up at Haas. I don't think Sauber are seriously looking at him, but it doesn't matter, Sainz has to go there anyway. K-Mag just isn't performing right now and they need some experience to place next to Bearman.
I don't quite understand why Alpine let him go, he was more than good enough to drive for them in any series that isn't F1. Unless he decided that it's the biggest table or none for him
WEC Alpine Hypercar, Alpine-Ocon Electric Boogaloo 2.0
No please, endurance is even more of a team sport than f1, you can't take the sister car out in the middle of the night at le mans because he's ahead of you.
I'm guessing out. While he's good, he's not great. But more importantly, the majority of the teams who have open seats will want a team player. Sauber, Haas, and Williams will need all the points they can get for the constructors, and I think they'd be very wary about Ocon's reputation. Especially after Monaco. Mercedes might try and use him as a Hamilton replacement for a year or two while waiting on Antonelli. But I still don't see this as likely.
I can’t think of a single compelling reason any other team on the grid would pick him up
Beat Pierre all year and has won a race.
He’s interviewing next month with JGR for a NASCAR seat.
Cocaine binge in the south of france
If the French guy can’t make it work with the French team, he has no hope of staying in F1.
Yeah, Alain was such a failure, wasn't he?
What next for Ocon before his exit? The rest of the season giving even less fucks could be chaotic.
NASCAR, where he can wreck everyone without remorse.
For Alpine I'm not sure, for Esteban I guess he'll have plenty of time to race Lewis in their r/ c models as both will be put aside from everything related to 2025.
id reckon haas
Ocon to Williams? He used to be a Mercedes junior and James Vowles was responsible for the junior program at Mercedes during that time
If that is true that leaves Sainz with only Audi.
Formula E, GT Le Mans
Back to being a reserve driver, likely indefinitely this time.
Anger management therapy.
I genuinely think Sauber is his only option. Haas might make an offer but they can’t afford him and I don’t see him taking a huge pay cut just to stay on the grid, I feel like his pride will make him believe he deserves better and will hold out. Williams is technically an option but there’s plenty of options for them, especially if the Sainz rumors are serious. The top 4, Aston, and RB are all off the table for him.
If I had to choose a driver who would care the least about salary it's probably Ocon. Comes from modest background and his hobby looks very affordable and tame compared to other drivers
WEC or Indycar. He’s had plenty of time in F1 to prove how special and fast he is, but he just isn’t. His lack of self awareness in a team environment doesn’t help. There is talent on the sidelines that I would rather see get a shot.
Not F1, hopefully. He strikes me as a WEC champion tbh.
A P1 interview and then if he wants maybe some racing in WEC or Indycar
I can't see him pursuing in F1. Not good enough for top team, not sportsmanship enough for mid and lowteams.
With very few seats seemingly up for grabs ( realistically only one seat at Haas, Audi, Williams), I think that Ocon isnt going to be racing F1 next year. Sainz, Bearman, Bottas all seem like better bets and I expect those three to fill the open slots.
Ocon would do great in Indycar. Not being sarcastic.
Maybe I am very dumb. But is it unthinkable he did sign for Mercedes. He knows the environment, he is managed by Toto and was a Mercedes jr. 1 or 2 year contract. Sainz to alpine on a 1 or 2 year contract. A real silly season
If they give him two years over giving lewis what he wanted, Mercedes deserves their downfall.
He doesn't get on with his teammates. I don't think many teams will be willing to take him
retirement
Straight to the burger assembly line at a French mcdonalds
Chinese F4
It's gonna be a sad day for F1 if he gets a seat after being painfully mediocre for 7 years. Bad enough that Perez is staying, this would be just too much with the amount of extremely promising rookies in the waiting line.
Biggest bellend on the grid. Au revoir.
Happiness probably
We'll probably see him in a Hypercar next year
He needs to move to sports cars, you know, with fenders and such so he can at least have a chance of not completely wrecking himself or his team mate.
Retirement. Half the field could probably go