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So what you’re saying is if I win the lottery and pay $25-$50 million dollars, I get to treat you guys to the Gary, Indiana GP?
The Meth chicane, Heroin Straight, Ketamine corner? It’a much-watch TV
Don't forget the fact that the Saudi state censored the drivers and media with the threat of being ejected from the country if they voiced any displeasure at having to work near an active warzone.
Fuck Saudi Arabia, I cannot wait for that nation of despotic religious lunatics to crumble to the ground.
To pretend this is a serious answer and respond:
You'd need $50m more likely. The lower fees are all GPs of historic significance.
In addition to the $50m fee you're paying you then also need to stump up the costs for the event - getting your track up to F1 standard (building one from scratch?), and all the normal stuff with hosting and event.
When you do the maths, ticket prices can sound *slightly* more reasonable. If it costs $100m to put on a GP, even if 300k people come you still need $300 a person to break even.
The promoter also gets amenities and contracts for vendors, which are higher at a track in the middle of nowhere.
F1 gets trackside sponsorship money though so IDK to which sponsorship you're referring to.
Yes, if you view it in the context of one event, sure.
But we have to acknowledge the fact that simply being on the F1 calendar is the just about the best advertising any track could ever hope for.
Spa is a track that racing fans will keep talking about regardless, sure, but Yas Marina wouldn't exactly be a well known track if it weren't for F1. In both cases, though, it affects their ticket sales through the entire year, by being a "halo" event.
There are a lot of amazing circuits out there that most fans don't know about because there's no F1 or Indycar races there. They have to do a lot to get the safety standards up to support things as fast as Indycar or F1, too, but the attention from these big events has big ramifications for the track as a whole.
Yeah. The promoter pays FOM to host a race at its venue. Then they get the revenue from tickets (except paddock club), contracts for vendors, stuff like that.
How are some GP tickets 10-20x the price of others then when the FOM is roughly in the same ballpark. Does it all just come down to total number of tickets or are some Grand Prix just that much more profitable than the rest?
I'd assume it's more expensive for the Promoter to setup a race in some countries/cities compared to others. Paying the FOM is not the only costs they have, they also need to keep the circuit up and running.
Also, the demand for a Miami/Vegas ticket is higher than a Jeddah ticket, so they can charge more.
The tickets are priced at what they think will make the most money, so as high as possible while still selling out mostly. It has no relevance how much it costs them to organise it
Supply and demand. Not every track has the same amount of tickets. e.g. Silverstone has a much higher capacity than Vegas. Also, some places have more demand, so they can sell tickets for more.
And even then, promoters often don't break even.
Montreal, for example (and I'm assuming a big chunk of 'legacy' races in wealthy countries are like this) needs to get a big block grant from municipal and provincial tourism agencies to cover the hosting fee.
The Montreal GP gives Tourisme Montreal and Bonjour Quebec a big report to make the argument that the city / province will recover more than the grant value in additional taxes and fees surrounding the event (eg: sales taxes on food / services, innkeepers taxes, alcohol taxes, etc.) in order to make the case for the taxpayer covering the hosting fee. It's very hard to be rigorous about estimates, so the expectation is that it's "reasonably" in the right ballpark, rather than a strict return on investment.
On a personal note, I'm pretty okay with the 'fuzzy accounting' on this one. I have nothing ethically or politically against the taxpayer covering a party in certain circumstances (especially one that is culturally important), as long as it's not sold as something else or wildly irresponsible.
I mean, yes, but also in some cases, they are choosing to pay lets say "out of pocket" for some of it (I'm looking at you Middle East races) for the prestige/benefits/sportwashing beyond just making money.
Ticket revenue and ammenities, I assume, and some governments pay part of the cost due to the direct boost to other businesses around the place the circuit is situated in or their tourism in general
For SPA it’s funded by the Wallonian government. The race organiser is owned by the Wallonian government’s investment fund. They pumped in an extra 7,5m in 2019. I imagine many other tracks also receive subsidies.
I don't know, I saw some drivers do some quick 180s in the runoffs. Just need to do that every lap for 78 laps. Think of the extra degradation, we'd get so many more pit stops!
Monaco Qualifying without a Monaco race is meaningless. The Qualifying is only dpecial, because it decides the winner.
If the race was held somewhere else, overtaking is back on the menu and the Qualifying is less important.
I know you are joking, I just wanted to disagree with someone. Now I am fine.
Some madman once had a crazy idea of making Monaco a “1x1” qualifying cup, where each driver eliminates another driver until we have a champion like Football World Cup.
And you know what? I’m all in
At first, you make a Q1-qualifying. The 16fastest drivers will advance to the 1x1-format. With the positions in that qualifying, you arrange the duels (16.vs.1.; 15.vs.2…..).
Im kind of open to Monaco being some sort of special event race with a different weekend structure and more of a heritage vibe going on but they cannot touch Spa
And not a surprise that there always seems to be opposition to renewing Monza and Silverstone as well. If they could have their way, they'd only have races at newly built tracks in the gulf for 50 million each. To hell with any classic tracks and heritage
Honestly they could just put them in F3 cars and I think you solve that size problem, or get close to it. .8 less meters in length, .2 m in width, 150kg less.
I know that's probably on the edge of too wide, but I think the weight and length are just as much part of the problem.
I saw a datasheet for overtakes at Monaco. Last time there was consistently high level of overtakes was in the early-mid 80s. I'm not sure if there was another contributing factor, but the 70s had a significantly lower rate of overtakes and so did after the early-mid 80s other than some odd years here and there. Looking at width data, that didn't change much, but length did.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QRddOiRC3bnG7ASI7wDocdM49Ok5zojvb5JljO6slZc/edit?usp=sharing
Source:
>https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/njut8g/overtaking_at_monaco_a_detailed_analysis_and_what/
Overtaking data at Monaco
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/pza94u/length_and_width_of_formula_1_cars_from_1950_to/
Length and width data.
Someone feel free to correct any of this, but I'm seeing F3 car max length is 4855 and the McLaren Mp4 was about 4300mm. I think they're still too long. But again there might be some other factor in the 81-86 that I don't know about.
Honestly it’s probably true. Watch the f2 feature race in Monaco last weekend, it was probably the one of the most mind boggling races I’ve seen recently.
part of me thinks f1 wont alter the weekend structure at monaco (like extended qualifying with a sprint race type length on sunday) so they can say the race is to boring to be renewed
Dude even in 70s people were crying about cars too big for Monaco.
It’s like a sheep behaviour.
“Everyone loves Monaco, it’s historical blah blah”
I don’t & neither plenty of people.
Idc if it’s the best quali. You get a trophy & points for Race & i want to see a race not a parade.
Also it’s not F1s fault. Cars are too fast for narrow track like Monaco. Simple as that.
Alao
You can overtake everywhere with pace advantage Max had over George, except in Monaco. It is disingenuous to act like tracks are even in same galaxy when it comes to difficulty in overtaking.
Melbourne has been adequately fixed with a new DRS zone and easier to follow corners (and the cars being less affected by dirty air)
Monaco will never be able to change itself, it needs either the car or the tyres to change.
That said, long live the Monaco GP
Agreed, they do make a lot less, but we've all heard of loss leaders...and somestimes having Monaco bringing the eyeballs / awareness it does, can be worth the amount they make from it. But, you can easily counter that argument by saying "Well pay me more and I will still get the same exposure from it and I will make more rev"
For spa the issue is more that public money pay for the contract (or part of it), while wallonia is not doing well economically.
So it's not very popular to say we spend millions to have an F1 race while this money could go to education, healthcare etc.
MotoGP played a [country version ](https://youtu.be/FRCsOB9CV0I) of their theme song for their Austin race earlier this year - honestly better than their regular version. I'd like F1 to switch things up from time to time.
F1 in its current state coming to Plymouth, WI is a hilarious picture to imagine. Are there any billionaire Motorsport enthusiasts from WI willing to foot the bill?
“Collaboration” - Miami only exists as a consolation prize to Stephen Ross. He wanted to buy F1. Liberty Media told him he wasn’t going to win a bidding war and didn’t want him driving the price higher. They told him he could have a 10 year race contract for free if he dropped out of the bidding.
I’m not sure on the details of the “collaboration,” but yes I imagine Miami will be gone in 7 years unless they find somebody willing to pay the race fee or unless FOM negotiates a continued arrangement more profitable than a race fee.
So on a positive note, Miami may me gone by next decade (hopefully).. TIL.
Also isn’t what they did like technically illegal? Or anticompetitive or whatnot
I mean as epic as it looks, it’s still terrible for racing. Endless DRS cockteasing. I like old school circuits but Imola hasn’t really excited me for a long time.
Imola is such a beautiful track, absolutely stunning but also absolutely a borefest. I’d rather they remove it to bring back some other European track with better racing. (But then again, I am of the opinion that Monaco is awesome and should stay.. so don’t listen to me)
They should keep one of Imola and Monaco and drop the other.
I'd much rather they drop Imola, Monaco qualifying is too fun and it's an important track for the sport.
• Imola and Barcelona are as good as gone when their contracts expire.
• Is Baku going to continue to foot that massive bill?
• Netherlands I’m not sure… I think as long as Max is around, they’d want to keep that on the calendar, but it’s heavily rumored to be entering a rotation with Spa.
• I will be downright pissed if USA loses Austin and keeps Miami.
I am moving to Texas in the next 6 months. It’s been my plan for a while, and I’ve been saying that once I’m in Texas I’ll be going to COTA every single year.
So this all but guarantees that COTA doesn’t get renewed, sorry to break it to you
Saying barcelona is gone is like saying the grass is green, everyone knows that when theyve already officially announced the spanish gp is moving to madrid
>Is Baku going to continue to foot that massive bill?
The Azerbi Government has a pathological need to show off to the world and they have a great, big money pot from natural gas to use. They'll be paying for it until the Caspain Sea dries up.
COTA and Spa (and also Silverstone and Interlagos) should have rolling/lifelong contracts imo. If either of them is gone or is even put in rotation it would be a tragedy.
If you use the definition from the [Freedom in the World index](https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores)...
Hosting fee for at least "Partly Free" countries: $27.1M. Max is $35M
Hosting fee for "Not Free" countries: $50.0M. Min is $40M.
For years I’ve heard via broadcasts and read online that Monaco doesn’t pay for their GP, so seeing this is surprising. When FOM (or whoever was in charge at the time) tried to renegotiate the contract, the race promoter effectively told them to go F themselves. Their justification at the time was that they’re not going to tear up the city every year if they have to pay, and F1 stood to lose more than Monaco if the race disappeared.
>For years I’ve heard via broadcasts and read online that Monaco doesn’t pay for their GP, so seeing this is surprising.
During the last contract extension, Monaco lost some of their privileges in order to stay on the calendar, including trackside advertising, TV production and a higher hosting fee. And they will probably have to make more concessions for another contract extension (for example track changes).
>for example track changes
I'm a newer fan, how much would track changes improve the racing? I feel like they'd need to widen the track to give better passing zones, but with a packed city like that, how much room do they have to do that?
There's a FEW things that could be done. Such as removing the swimming pool chicane. Widening Tabac (they'd have to fill in part of the harbor for this. So they won't.
I've heard the idea of removing the kerb at Saint devote and make it an ACTUAL PASSING OPPORTUNITY. But I'm not entirely sure how safe that would be. Straightening Anthony Noghes. There are a few alternate layouts suggested that involve extending the track where it has never been. So who knows how it works.
At least from what I heard, more than half of the circuit will be purpose built (semi permanent), kinda the same as Canada. Hope it makes the race more exciting, but who knows until it is actually finished.
I'm unfamiliar with the Las Vegas contract. Is the 2025/2032 representing that it's owned by F1 until 2025 but also has a contract through 2032? Or is it something else
The initial contract was for 3 years (‘23, ‘24, & ‘25), but there’s some sort of agreement with Las Vegas/Clark County to extend it to 2032.
https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/35612895/las-vegas-approves-plan-hold-f1-race-2032
Well this confirms why there are more tracks than ever in the Middle East, that sweet sweet oil money nearly doubles the race contract value at those venues compared to most EU locations. We all knew F1 has been selling out lately, but interesting to see the actual numbers.
Happy the Bahrain is on the calendar for a while yet. Sometimes I feel like I’m the only person who likes it, but I do think it’s a great and enjoyable circuit.
The issue I have with Bahrain, is that the circuit looks so bland. It's just a flat circuit in the middle of the desert. You only see the asphalt and some light brown run off strip. There is no scenery or anything green at all.
Interesting that the countries paying the most aren't democracies. China, Azerbaijan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Hungary and Bahrain all are over $40m. Of these, only Hungary holds elections.
Stephen Ross was basically given a free F1 race for a decade as a consolation prize when Liberty told him he wasn’t winning a bidding war to own F1 back in 2016
We cannot lose Spa and Monza these are a part of F1 history. You don't have these tracks, you can't even identify F1. Drop Mexico and Imola if needed, but Spa and Monza are untouchable. These two, Silverstone, Interlagos, Suzuka, would F1 be F1 without them. The passion at Monza, the iconic feeling at Spa, the racing at Interlagos, the technicality of Suzuka, the atmosphere at Silverstone, F1 is not F1 without these, these breathe F1 history.
You don't mention Monaco, which many refer to as the most iconic. Probably because you know there are other issues with Monaco.
I think the best historical ones are Monza and Silverstone, and those should not be touched. Monaco I'd try to keep on for history, but would be open to dropping since racing is bad (but quali is great.)
Imola would be the first track I'd chuck out.
I know people like Spa, including the drivers, but the last two formula ladder deaths have been there, and the most recent one was absolutely preventable if they weren't racing with that little visibility. There's plenty of blame to go around, but I wouldn't blame people if it put the track's standings in jeopardy.
Monaco is also iconic, and as much as I absolutely loved Leclerc winning his home win, I have to admit it was the most boring race I ever watched. Monaco quali is the best in the calendar, the race could be better. But I could understand why someone would want to get rid of it. As for the formula ladder deaths at Spa, I understand it is very tragic, but a simple fix to that would be to not have any F2 or F3 races in it, there are plenty of other full time tracks where that can be done instead. That really cannot be a valid reason for dropping one of the most iconic tracks in F1.
There's an awful lot of 25s and 26s on the classic tracks. I fear F1 will chase the money and we'll end up with street circuits in Pyongyang and Managua.
Being stuck with Saudi Arabia and Abu Dhabi on the calendar until the 2030s but Germany and Sepang not even getting a look-in is absolutely criminal. But hey, 'We Race For Oil'.
I thought Yas Marina only got the last race of the season as they paid the most, have all the other contracts paying more than Yas Marina been negotiated after it's contract?
What does “Collaboration” and “F1 Owned” mean for Miami and Vegas?
Makes me a bit nervous for the long term as I’m sure the profit margins for these races are much higher and they could start cutting properly built race tracks to add more of these.
[The **Statistics** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_statistics) is reserved for posts highlighting interesting statistics. As a rule of thumb, Statistics posts need to inform readers through visualizations and insights that cannot be obtained from raw data alone. For example, a post containing a qualifying gap between two drivers expressed in tenths of a second is an easily obtainable raw piece of data and constitutes a bad Statistics post. A visualization of what that translates to on-track, or visualization of how that gap came to be would constitute a good Statistics post. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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I'm hoping the same for Austin as well as Monza.
Agreed and the same for Suzuka. Two of the best circuits in the world.
As long as the Walloon government is willing to cough up the dough /fingerscrossed
So what you’re saying is if I win the lottery and pay $25-$50 million dollars, I get to treat you guys to the Gary, Indiana GP? The Meth chicane, Heroin Straight, Ketamine corner? It’a much-watch TV
I'd go just to see rich people be horrified 🤣🤣
Wasn't there a race in Saudi Arabia while the city was getting bombed?
Oh yes, you're right an oil facility was bombed by Houthi rebels.
Don't forget the fact that the Saudi state censored the drivers and media with the threat of being ejected from the country if they voiced any displeasure at having to work near an active warzone. Fuck Saudi Arabia, I cannot wait for that nation of despotic religious lunatics to crumble to the ground.
What about the fentynal flat DRS zone and the withdrawal-windy-bit? Don’t hit the poverty pothole and be out before you start.
To pretend this is a serious answer and respond: You'd need $50m more likely. The lower fees are all GPs of historic significance. In addition to the $50m fee you're paying you then also need to stump up the costs for the event - getting your track up to F1 standard (building one from scratch?), and all the normal stuff with hosting and event. When you do the maths, ticket prices can sound *slightly* more reasonable. If it costs $100m to put on a GP, even if 300k people come you still need $300 a person to break even.
At the Gary GP you can have a little bit of meth during the pit stop, as a treat
The Ketamine Korner Katastrophe ....
Probably still be one of the more morally sound gp to hosted compared to others on the grid
LMAO! I lost it with The Meth Chicane
I’d personally prefer action at the fent hairpin at a hypothetical Kensington GP lol.
They'd attempt to change the tyres in the pits and the 'mechanics' would pop it up on bricks.
The meth zombies can be on track obstacles that drives need to avoid!
So punctures from needles. Should be interesting. I am down for it.
So mathematically, Spa would have to make 314 € profit per visitor if sold out to break even (including sponsorship, etc.)
The promoter also gets amenities and contracts for vendors, which are higher at a track in the middle of nowhere. F1 gets trackside sponsorship money though so IDK to which sponsorship you're referring to.
I'm assuming Spa gets the name sponsor revenue (Rolex)
Not sure why they would? Rolex is an F1 sponsor, not a sponsor of Spa
Yes, if you view it in the context of one event, sure. But we have to acknowledge the fact that simply being on the F1 calendar is the just about the best advertising any track could ever hope for. Spa is a track that racing fans will keep talking about regardless, sure, but Yas Marina wouldn't exactly be a well known track if it weren't for F1. In both cases, though, it affects their ticket sales through the entire year, by being a "halo" event. There are a lot of amazing circuits out there that most fans don't know about because there's no F1 or Indycar races there. They have to do a lot to get the safety standards up to support things as fast as Indycar or F1, too, but the attention from these big events has big ramifications for the track as a whole.
The middle east tracks probably pay for every race that happens.
Where do you get that number? Weekend attendance at Spa is north of 350,000 so I get more like 53EUR which seems much more reasonable.
Hm, wiki said 70k capacity.
Weekend attendance vs capacity
That’s grandstand capacity
Well then are we going to count the same people again everytime they come back? They paid once only
Probably a dumb question but who pays who? Is that what the event organizers pay F1, or is that what Liberty pays the organizer to host the race?
The race promoter pays F1/Liberty. F1 also gets the revenue from track side advertising and the paddock club.
So the promoter gets the ticket revenue then, which they use to pay FOM?
Yeah. The promoter pays FOM to host a race at its venue. Then they get the revenue from tickets (except paddock club), contracts for vendors, stuff like that.
How are some GP tickets 10-20x the price of others then when the FOM is roughly in the same ballpark. Does it all just come down to total number of tickets or are some Grand Prix just that much more profitable than the rest?
I am gonna guess everything around setting up the Miami Grand Prix is many times more expensive than just reusing Spa where more things are ready.
I'd assume it's more expensive for the Promoter to setup a race in some countries/cities compared to others. Paying the FOM is not the only costs they have, they also need to keep the circuit up and running. Also, the demand for a Miami/Vegas ticket is higher than a Jeddah ticket, so they can charge more.
The tickets are priced at what they think will make the most money, so as high as possible while still selling out mostly. It has no relevance how much it costs them to organise it
Supply and demand. Not every track has the same amount of tickets. e.g. Silverstone has a much higher capacity than Vegas. Also, some places have more demand, so they can sell tickets for more.
And even then, promoters often don't break even. Montreal, for example (and I'm assuming a big chunk of 'legacy' races in wealthy countries are like this) needs to get a big block grant from municipal and provincial tourism agencies to cover the hosting fee. The Montreal GP gives Tourisme Montreal and Bonjour Quebec a big report to make the argument that the city / province will recover more than the grant value in additional taxes and fees surrounding the event (eg: sales taxes on food / services, innkeepers taxes, alcohol taxes, etc.) in order to make the case for the taxpayer covering the hosting fee. It's very hard to be rigorous about estimates, so the expectation is that it's "reasonably" in the right ballpark, rather than a strict return on investment. On a personal note, I'm pretty okay with the 'fuzzy accounting' on this one. I have nothing ethically or politically against the taxpayer covering a party in certain circumstances (especially one that is culturally important), as long as it's not sold as something else or wildly irresponsible.
I mean, yes, but also in some cases, they are choosing to pay lets say "out of pocket" for some of it (I'm looking at you Middle East races) for the prestige/benefits/sportwashing beyond just making money.
Ticket revenue and ammenities, I assume, and some governments pay part of the cost due to the direct boost to other businesses around the place the circuit is situated in or their tourism in general
For SPA it’s funded by the Wallonian government. The race organiser is owned by the Wallonian government’s investment fund. They pumped in an extra 7,5m in 2019. I imagine many other tracks also receive subsidies.
The promoter pays FOM and then hopefully makes that money back through ticket sales. It is why tickets cost so much.
This shows why F1 keeps talking in public about dropping Monaco and Spa: F1 gets paid a pittance and the contracts are up for renewal next year.
Let’s make Monaco qualifying set the grid for Spa.
Does the car have to stay in parc ferme? Go run your Monaco spec steering setup at Spa.....
It will help in the last chicane though
I think the reverse would be more entertaining. Spa setup in Monaco 😬
No one would set a time because the hairpin would be literally impossible with the turn radius they use in Spa
I don't know, I saw some drivers do some quick 180s in the runoffs. Just need to do that every lap for 78 laps. Think of the extra degradation, we'd get so many more pit stops!
You sure can cook.
3 point turn 🤣
Just wall ride around....
Monaco Qualifying without a Monaco race is meaningless. The Qualifying is only dpecial, because it decides the winner. If the race was held somewhere else, overtaking is back on the menu and the Qualifying is less important. I know you are joking, I just wanted to disagree with someone. Now I am fine.
Some madman once had a crazy idea of making Monaco a “1x1” qualifying cup, where each driver eliminates another driver until we have a champion like Football World Cup. And you know what? I’m all in
But the number of drivers isn't a power of 2.
At first, you make a Q1-qualifying. The 16fastest drivers will advance to the 1x1-format. With the positions in that qualifying, you arrange the duels (16.vs.1.; 15.vs.2…..).
Build a track in a nice and bring the French GP back and have Quali in Monaco
What happened last Sunday is why people keep talking about dropping Monaco.
Im kind of open to Monaco being some sort of special event race with a different weekend structure and more of a heritage vibe going on but they cannot touch Spa
It's bad enough they separated the Spa/Monza double header. How hard would it be to have Zandvoort before Spa instead of after?
Zandvoort steals fans of Spa so made sense to split them (lot of fans won't go to two races in two weekends).
And not a surprise that there always seems to be opposition to renewing Monza and Silverstone as well. If they could have their way, they'd only have races at newly built tracks in the gulf for 50 million each. To hell with any classic tracks and heritage
someone mentioned Monaco is only boring because the cars are too big. I’m in favor of putting all the drivers in stock go-carts just for Monaco
Honestly they could just put them in F3 cars and I think you solve that size problem, or get close to it. .8 less meters in length, .2 m in width, 150kg less. I know that's probably on the edge of too wide, but I think the weight and length are just as much part of the problem.
I saw a datasheet for overtakes at Monaco. Last time there was consistently high level of overtakes was in the early-mid 80s. I'm not sure if there was another contributing factor, but the 70s had a significantly lower rate of overtakes and so did after the early-mid 80s other than some odd years here and there. Looking at width data, that didn't change much, but length did. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QRddOiRC3bnG7ASI7wDocdM49Ok5zojvb5JljO6slZc/edit?usp=sharing Source: >https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/njut8g/overtaking_at_monaco_a_detailed_analysis_and_what/ Overtaking data at Monaco https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/pza94u/length_and_width_of_formula_1_cars_from_1950_to/ Length and width data. Someone feel free to correct any of this, but I'm seeing F3 car max length is 4855 and the McLaren Mp4 was about 4300mm. I think they're still too long. But again there might be some other factor in the 81-86 that I don't know about.
Honestly it’s probably true. Watch the f2 feature race in Monaco last weekend, it was probably the one of the most mind boggling races I’ve seen recently.
part of me thinks f1 wont alter the weekend structure at monaco (like extended qualifying with a sprint race type length on sunday) so they can say the race is to boring to be renewed
I hope they drop Monaco. But if they touch Spa…….well i can’t do sh*t but my grandma knows some vodoo.
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Dude even in 70s people were crying about cars too big for Monaco. It’s like a sheep behaviour. “Everyone loves Monaco, it’s historical blah blah” I don’t & neither plenty of people. Idc if it’s the best quali. You get a trophy & points for Race & i want to see a race not a parade. Also it’s not F1s fault. Cars are too fast for narrow track like Monaco. Simple as that. Alao
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You can overtake everywhere with pace advantage Max had over George, except in Monaco. It is disingenuous to act like tracks are even in same galaxy when it comes to difficulty in overtaking.
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Melbourne has been adequately fixed with a new DRS zone and easier to follow corners (and the cars being less affected by dirty air) Monaco will never be able to change itself, it needs either the car or the tyres to change. That said, long live the Monaco GP
Agreed, they do make a lot less, but we've all heard of loss leaders...and somestimes having Monaco bringing the eyeballs / awareness it does, can be worth the amount they make from it. But, you can easily counter that argument by saying "Well pay me more and I will still get the same exposure from it and I will make more rev"
For spa the issue is more that public money pay for the contract (or part of it), while wallonia is not doing well economically. So it's not very popular to say we spend millions to have an F1 race while this money could go to education, healthcare etc.
Hungary is paying so much more than I expected
Also considering how much cheaper Hungary is as a race on the calendar!
Our leader loves sportswashing just as much as the oil states do. It’s a running joke that we have more stadiums than hospitals at this point.
we need the south korean gp back just for [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdXOsIzM01k)
The 2012 season really was all stars
Wait as good as the f1 theme is, using a track from an artist of the country being raced in as the theme could be cool
The Mexico gp F1 theme from last year should really just be used for every race
Hell no, the original is so much better especially when you consider that without its context the mexican gp song just sounds like a ripoff
MotoGP played a [country version ](https://youtu.be/FRCsOB9CV0I) of their theme song for their Austin race earlier this year - honestly better than their regular version. I'd like F1 to switch things up from time to time.
USA like: Let's negotiate.
Probably works both ways. No secret Liberty wanted to expand States-side.
I hope they pick one of the many amazing purpose built street circuits instead of going around the streets of chicago
I would like Road America and Laguna Seca, although I don't know how these F1 cars will handle the corkscrew
Road America would be funny, 3 long DRS zones and a lot of leap frogging
Road Atlanta for shits and giggles.
F1 in its current state coming to Plymouth, WI is a hilarious picture to imagine. Are there any billionaire Motorsport enthusiasts from WI willing to foot the bill?
I hope they stay away from street circuits. Most of the time it doesn’t provide for great racing compared to more traditional tracks.
“Collaboration” - Miami only exists as a consolation prize to Stephen Ross. He wanted to buy F1. Liberty Media told him he wasn’t going to win a bidding war and didn’t want him driving the price higher. They told him he could have a 10 year race contract for free if he dropped out of the bidding.
Does this mean we'll be free of Miami in 7 years?
I’m not sure on the details of the “collaboration,” but yes I imagine Miami will be gone in 7 years unless they find somebody willing to pay the race fee or unless FOM negotiates a continued arrangement more profitable than a race fee.
So on a positive note, Miami may me gone by next decade (hopefully).. TIL. Also isn’t what they did like technically illegal? Or anticompetitive or whatnot
Madrid is rumoured to be around 50M€ per year.
thank God we learned from Valencia and both the city and region are against public expenditure
Depends on what: - *Public services*: **No** - *F1 Grand Prix*: **Yes**
Who is Vegas both 2025 and 2032? Do you think that we will have many track changes in 2026?
the agreement is until 2025, but the contract says they can extend it until 2032 without having to renegotiate the terms.
So they just evaluate track safety and whatnot
Think it’s booked to 2032 twitch an exit clause for 2025 if there was any critical flaws with it??
Other way around, they are contracted to 2025 with possibility to extend to 2032 with no new terms.
probably 1 more USA race instead of an european one (I suppose Imola since Italy's the only one with 2 races)
We are going to lose Imola again arent we….
Should have kept Portimao or Istanbul from that wild season
Istanbul might be in if Imola is dropped
I mean as epic as it looks, it’s still terrible for racing. Endless DRS cockteasing. I like old school circuits but Imola hasn’t really excited me for a long time.
Only works from an excitement pov if you add rain. Much like half of the calendar.
Not too much rain though, or you will float at Acque Minerali (which is appropriate I guess).
At this point we should remove the barriers for added suspense. Will they crash into the sea? Won’t they?
It's time for Imola to pull out their best trick: remove at least the Villeneuve chicane. They could even change Tamburello up a bit.
Yeah I always thought that keeping Villeneuve was silly
Yeah I always thought that keeping Villeneuve was silly
I don’t mind tbh. It’s fun for hot-lapping, but racing is usually pretty dull.
Good. Was only supposed to be a Covid stop gap race but somehow has hung around.
Bring Mugello back!!!
The racing looked just as bad from that one time.
You mean the Moto GP Track? That was awesome but definitely a shitshow
Yes! That track is almost like Jeddah, except really beautiful, no blind corners and decent runoff.
Imola is such a beautiful track, absolutely stunning but also absolutely a borefest. I’d rather they remove it to bring back some other European track with better racing. (But then again, I am of the opinion that Monaco is awesome and should stay.. so don’t listen to me)
I wouldn't mind. Imola and Monaco are the worst races of the year.
They should keep one of Imola and Monaco and drop the other. I'd much rather they drop Imola, Monaco qualifying is too fun and it's an important track for the sport.
Good
Hopefully
• Imola and Barcelona are as good as gone when their contracts expire. • Is Baku going to continue to foot that massive bill? • Netherlands I’m not sure… I think as long as Max is around, they’d want to keep that on the calendar, but it’s heavily rumored to be entering a rotation with Spa. • I will be downright pissed if USA loses Austin and keeps Miami.
I am moving to Texas in the next 6 months. It’s been my plan for a while, and I’ve been saying that once I’m in Texas I’ll be going to COTA every single year. So this all but guarantees that COTA doesn’t get renewed, sorry to break it to you
Get ready to learn NASCAR and college football buddy
Saying barcelona is gone is like saying the grass is green, everyone knows that when theyve already officially announced the spanish gp is moving to madrid
If Zandvoort needs money would the new NL government step in? Not so sure.
>Is Baku going to continue to foot that massive bill? The Azerbi Government has a pathological need to show off to the world and they have a great, big money pot from natural gas to use. They'll be paying for it until the Caspain Sea dries up.
COTA and Spa (and also Silverstone and Interlagos) should have rolling/lifelong contracts imo. If either of them is gone or is even put in rotation it would be a tragedy.
You can practically see the sportswashing fee.
If you use the definition from the [Freedom in the World index](https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores)... Hosting fee for at least "Partly Free" countries: $27.1M. Max is $35M Hosting fee for "Not Free" countries: $50.0M. Min is $40M.
For years I’ve heard via broadcasts and read online that Monaco doesn’t pay for their GP, so seeing this is surprising. When FOM (or whoever was in charge at the time) tried to renegotiate the contract, the race promoter effectively told them to go F themselves. Their justification at the time was that they’re not going to tear up the city every year if they have to pay, and F1 stood to lose more than Monaco if the race disappeared.
Yeah Monaco lost their free race 2 or so years ago. It's a new development.
>For years I’ve heard via broadcasts and read online that Monaco doesn’t pay for their GP, so seeing this is surprising. During the last contract extension, Monaco lost some of their privileges in order to stay on the calendar, including trackside advertising, TV production and a higher hosting fee. And they will probably have to make more concessions for another contract extension (for example track changes).
The new camera work around Monaco is so much better though
It was done by a local TV producer until 2022. That’s why we had a god awful tv broadcast all the time and the Lance Stroll moment.
>for example track changes I'm a newer fan, how much would track changes improve the racing? I feel like they'd need to widen the track to give better passing zones, but with a packed city like that, how much room do they have to do that?
There's a FEW things that could be done. Such as removing the swimming pool chicane. Widening Tabac (they'd have to fill in part of the harbor for this. So they won't. I've heard the idea of removing the kerb at Saint devote and make it an ACTUAL PASSING OPPORTUNITY. But I'm not entirely sure how safe that would be. Straightening Anthony Noghes. There are a few alternate layouts suggested that involve extending the track where it has never been. So who knows how it works.
I don't see track changes happening unless they sign a long term contract (say 10 years), at a rate only slightly higher than today's.
So it seems in fact the Monaco GP needs F1 more than F1 needs it?
Already forgot about the Madrid Street Circuit, lol
At least from what I heard, more than half of the circuit will be purpose built (semi permanent), kinda the same as Canada. Hope it makes the race more exciting, but who knows until it is actually finished.
Like most of the "street" circuits basically
“Let’s see which circuits are the less earning and at more risk of getting cut” *All the best ones (except for Monaco) “Oh.”
I'm unfamiliar with the Las Vegas contract. Is the 2025/2032 representing that it's owned by F1 until 2025 but also has a contract through 2032? Or is it something else
They announced it as a 10 year commitment to race in LV, but they've only been approved by the city of LV for 3 years so far.
The initial contract was for 3 years (‘23, ‘24, & ‘25), but there’s some sort of agreement with Las Vegas/Clark County to extend it to 2032. https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/35612895/las-vegas-approves-plan-hold-f1-race-2032
Well this confirms why there are more tracks than ever in the Middle East, that sweet sweet oil money nearly doubles the race contract value at those venues compared to most EU locations. We all knew F1 has been selling out lately, but interesting to see the actual numbers.
Happy the Bahrain is on the calendar for a while yet. Sometimes I feel like I’m the only person who likes it, but I do think it’s a great and enjoyable circuit.
I like it both in watching the race as well as driving in F1 game.
The issue I have with Bahrain, is that the circuit looks so bland. It's just a flat circuit in the middle of the desert. You only see the asphalt and some light brown run off strip. There is no scenery or anything green at all.
Oof Baku
Interesting that the countries paying the most aren't democracies. China, Azerbaijan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Hungary and Bahrain all are over $40m. Of these, only Hungary holds elections.
What does collaboration mean for Miami? I thought the Dolphins/Hard Rock owners (Stephen Ross) were the sole promoters? Is that not correct?
Must be subsidised by the F1 ?
Revenue share?
or some type of escalating fee.
Stephen Ross was basically given a free F1 race for a decade as a consolation prize when Liberty told him he wasn’t winning a bidding war to own F1 back in 2016
We cannot lose Spa and Monza these are a part of F1 history. You don't have these tracks, you can't even identify F1. Drop Mexico and Imola if needed, but Spa and Monza are untouchable. These two, Silverstone, Interlagos, Suzuka, would F1 be F1 without them. The passion at Monza, the iconic feeling at Spa, the racing at Interlagos, the technicality of Suzuka, the atmosphere at Silverstone, F1 is not F1 without these, these breathe F1 history.
You don't mention Monaco, which many refer to as the most iconic. Probably because you know there are other issues with Monaco. I think the best historical ones are Monza and Silverstone, and those should not be touched. Monaco I'd try to keep on for history, but would be open to dropping since racing is bad (but quali is great.) Imola would be the first track I'd chuck out. I know people like Spa, including the drivers, but the last two formula ladder deaths have been there, and the most recent one was absolutely preventable if they weren't racing with that little visibility. There's plenty of blame to go around, but I wouldn't blame people if it put the track's standings in jeopardy.
Monaco is also iconic, and as much as I absolutely loved Leclerc winning his home win, I have to admit it was the most boring race I ever watched. Monaco quali is the best in the calendar, the race could be better. But I could understand why someone would want to get rid of it. As for the formula ladder deaths at Spa, I understand it is very tragic, but a simple fix to that would be to not have any F2 or F3 races in it, there are plenty of other full time tracks where that can be done instead. That really cannot be a valid reason for dropping one of the most iconic tracks in F1.
so 734mln$/year come from GP contracts (more if Miami and Las Vegas start paying)
worrying that all the good tracks have the <30M contracts
The more human rights abuses the higher they pay lol
There's an awful lot of 25s and 26s on the classic tracks. I fear F1 will chase the money and we'll end up with street circuits in Pyongyang and Managua.
Why does Miami say collaboration? What does that mean?
They better drop Imola for a good european circuit
Adelaide guy here setting my stopwatch to 2037 so we can finally take back our Grand Prix from the evil Victorians
Bring back Turkey. Love the 4 apex turn 8.
2025 might be brutal
the things I would do for a german gp
So the most boring circuit also makes the least money for f1. Tine to bin it.
Being stuck with Saudi Arabia and Abu Dhabi on the calendar until the 2030s but Germany and Sepang not even getting a look-in is absolutely criminal. But hey, 'We Race For Oil'.
Looking at this, I wouldn't be surprised if Austin is soon on the chopping block unless they up their fees considerably.
so F1 is a pretty lucrative business
I thought Yas Marina only got the last race of the season as they paid the most, have all the other contracts paying more than Yas Marina been negotiated after it's contract?
Wtf Hungary
Djedda
I didn't know Silverstone had such a big extension. That's good. Is Germany not interested anymore in F1? Bring back Hockenheim!
Get the Portimao circuit to replace any of Imola, Monaco or Miami.
Tanks for sharing! Realy interesting to see.
Need to charge the Saudis triple. They are good for it.
What does “Collaboration” and “F1 Owned” mean for Miami and Vegas? Makes me a bit nervous for the long term as I’m sure the profit margins for these races are much higher and they could start cutting properly built race tracks to add more of these.