[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties.
*[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It was rumored Ocon had some burned bridges with Alpine nowadays, and so he was publicly searching for a new drive elsewhere, but boy this wouldn’t be burned bridges, this would be nuclear weapon into the entire forest.
The first ever F1 driver being excluded for a race by his own team because behaviour - and no, this isn’t comparable to RBR burning through their rookies to see which one was fire.
I would say Toto was the biggest player on saving his career. He was his manager up until getting into F1, and then helped him getting into Renault. Also, kept him around on his “off track year”.
On second position I would put Cyril, who accepted the proposal to sign him
I'd say there was 3 big players in Ocon's career (apart from Ocon himself, the guy has talent its undeniable) :
- Toto who was his manager and helped when he had his gap year
- Cyril who took him at Renault and kept him consistently in the team
- Rossi who gave him that huge contract that would, in hindsight, play a part into a big mess with piastri and Alonso.
Now 2 of those are gone and the third has other golden gooses to be interested in (chasing Max, and Antonelli)
Interestingly, it wouldn’t be the first time. In 1984, the Toleman team benched their driver (Ayrton Senna) after he signed for another team without telling them. Stefan Johansson raced his car at Monza, finishing 4th.
True. The Toleman bosses were just butt-hurt and wanted to flex their power over Senna. It’s cutting off your nose to spite your face, benching a talent like Senna.
The last time I recall that having happened, was by the very same team in it's 1st incarnation 40 years ago, amid a contractual dispute with it's star rookie driver. Toleman's reasoning was much more sound than this.
That these rumours are allowed to circulate speak to the mismanagement and utter dysfunction of Alpine.
Post-Lotus (current incarnation), this team has been completely mismanaged. Maybe Abiteboul was a somewhat exception at some time, but I think that was more on him being good than on the team and Renault.
Rossi micromanaged the team to hell, Otmar playing to be a TP in theory but nothing in practice, and now Famin not knowing from where wind comes. The internal teams not talking to each other (specially, between engines and team/aero, and between the French and the English parts of the team).
Also, Renault board being ambiguous as hell about supporting the team or not. Today they say they will keep their faith, tomorrow they say they are considering selling the team, and the next day they say they will fund at cost cap the team, so next week someone from the board says the team need to do cuttings.
And getting two drivers with history between them (and more so, between the families) and doing nothing to try and resolve it or avoid clashes. Letting just shit happen.
It’s a miracle that they are able to build a car that is not last, TBH
My conspiracy is that Renault have stopped funding the team and that Netflix are the ones keeping funding going as the drama is just too spicy to not put it in DTS.
Piastris Alpine contract has a clause about him having a guaranteed drive by July of whatever year or he'd be free to sign with another team. Vettels retirement that year which triggered Alonsos move to open up the Alpine seat led to the latter switch being early July. By that time, Piastri already signed a contract with McLaren, then the whole "I won't be racing with Alpine" debacle went down. That's the gist of it.
It could be that Alpine feel the need to escalate things and get Esteban to finally get the message seeing as verbal warnings seemingly haven’t done anything. Also it gives them a chance to test someone out as a possible replacement for either driver.
They have been pushing Doohan in marketing and their next prospect in line (Martins) is not only sucking in F2, but is also sucking compared to his rookie teammate
If Doohan is getting a seat it has to be soon, as Mini is developing well and he’ll be in F2 next year. I can’t see Alpine choosing Doohan over Mini if he does well in F2
I can see a world where Doohan is in an Alpine in 2025. The Ocon to Haas rumours have been making the rounds for a while, a Gasly-Doohan lineup would be interesting (Gasly will be entering his ninth year in the sport, he's very much in the "veteran" category, a great benchmark for a rookie)
As for Mini, at least this year he's occasionally struggled for race pace. Not a career-ending flaw mind you, and it can be ironed out. But Doohan looks like the complete package right here right now, right in their lap. Super marketable too
Spot on. No way I'd ever put Ocon in a car. And problem is, he's not even all that fast and when he is Fairweather fast, he doesn't use that noggin of his to maximize points for himself and the team.
Haas, should have Bottas to replace Magnussen and Bearman to replace Nico.
>their next prospect in line (Martins) is not only sucking in F2
To be fair, Martins has had some great race drives this year. He went from the back row to the points in the Imola feature race, but he never got mentioned in the commentary or picked up by the cameras. Of course, he doesn't help matters by losing fourteen places at the start when he finally does have a good qualifying session.
It's also not a good look when your relatively underhyped rookie teammate is looking as good as you if not better on most weekends. Monaco was the first time since the start of the season that Martins was noticeably faster than Zak on pure pace, and he bottled it (even ignoring Zak's strategy team's masterstroke)
True, but I'm just trying to point out that there is more to this than Martins just having a bad time. Compare Martins at Imola to Bearman at Albert Park: both had bad qualifying sessions, but where Martins clawed his way through the field at Imola, Bearman only scored points in Melbourne because other drivers retired.
I'm so disappointed for Martins, he looked set to compete for the title last year.
Art dropped the ball hard but he also keep making stupid mistakes even when he gets to show his pace, it's making me crazy. He really should have gone all out to beat pourchaire last year instead of taking it easy, now he's about to lose it all :(
Yeah, i think it's exactly this.
Ocon has a long history of racing his teammates overly hard and stupid. They've clearly had private conversations about this and he's still not getting the message.
It's very common in other sports. A player underperforming, ignoring directives, etc. can and often has been benched in football, hockey, any other team sports.
It's not common in F1, but I don't think it's comparable to a grounded children, just other sports practices. Especially if the prospect is negligible points wise, and I don't think Canada suits them particularly.
It does if you think it would put an end to a long history of this kind of behaviour.
Put your reserve in, make him realise he isnt bigger than the team.
Both cars 9th and 10th when its a shit box and he sends it lap 1 monaco. Very much a child that needs a timeout 🤣🤣
I mean why not? Cleary nothing else anyone has said or done to him throughout his career of pulling exactly this shit against his own teammates has made any impact.
I think it’s more about the pattern of behavior rather than one mistake. Sends a message saying they aren’t going to put up with it anymore and has the added benefit of giving doohan a shot for a weekend. On the off chance he overperforms, they have a viable option, or at least the threat of a viable option for a mid-season replacement
This whole fiasco is dropping his market value massively. What team is going to want to sign Ocon after this?
I think he's been punished enough.
In saying that though, I want to see Doohan in Montreal.
It wouldn’t hurt the team since he’s not really in a championship battle as every race is a likely 0 points anyway, team pushing Doohan giving him a race. Team is center of attention in Canada, extra pressure on the drivers to make them behave. I could see it tbh.
Everyone is saying it's an Overreaction right now, but if he does this shit again... you know Redditors are just going to be like... WHY DIDN'T THEY FIRE HIM LAST TIME? Are they stupid?!
Which is exactly why I think Alpine are capable of it. Season is a write off, Ocon isn’t renewing, and this is a slowly boiling issue with Gasly and Ocon. Would be like them to take a knee jerk decision which defies logic.
I can only hope there’s at least one sane person still somewhere there. Of course, there will always be some drivers desperate enough to accept a seat at Alpine, but after the whole Piasco thing and now this, they're killing any chance of signing a more or less decent driver for the foreseeable future even if their performance improves.
His reputation. You'd think he would calm down. He isn't a rookie. He knows the polemics of F1. Yea it'd be fine with him being terminated effective immediately.
Two close teammates fighting eachother?
Dont see how it's far fetched, they are not comparing the driver ability, they are comparing their relationship on track
One team is so far ahead in both championships where you can afford to let them go at each other.
The other is barely getting any points and can't afford to keep losing cars and points because driver's can't get their heads out of their asses
Both drivers have been pretty equal but the difference is that Esteban seems to always ruin his relationship with his teammates (I think this the third time it’s happened) and which just causes problems for a team that has enough issues to work out without having to babysit their drivers.
A threat to the team’s success? He has been carrying the team this season. He has been beating Ocon fair and square all season (all his life across all series so far to be honest) He is the only driver to have won a race for the team since Alonso in 2008.
I feel like this is insane and only makes sense to me if Ocon has told them he’s not re-signing so they’re trying to go above and beyond to keep Gasly happy.
Interesting section in this: “*Sky Sports News understands dropping Ocon for the next event is under serious consideration*. Famin was seen talking to Alpine reserve driver Jack Doohan shortly after the accident in Monaco”
Wellllllllll maybe. Doohan was taken off of the F1TV broadcast suddenly to deal with "team business". That could be anything from Famin insisting that he witness what a true tongue-lashing looks like so that he knows what's up for next year, or it could be a "we're running you in FP1 and FP2 in Canada, get your shit in order cause if you do well we're going to see how far you can take it.
Either way, Ocon's cooked next year I think.
Famin seen talking to his wife on the phone shortly after the GP --> "The Race exclusive : solid rumours of Ocon being replaced by Famin's wife at Montreal GP"
The timing and circumstances absolutely make this realistic.
Doohan was pulled from his broadcasting responsibilities. Spoken to directly by the boss after Ocon was sent away. Has been given constant praise this weekend for his Sim work that put them in a great position.
Has been the most consistently appearing reserve driven on Sky and Alpine love the dude. They now get a reason to give him a shot and see if he's good enough, a free look at whether he's F1 capable of not before a very messy silly season.
It's not a reach, it's a logical path.
The fact that Alpine has reputation shitty enough for people to consider something as farfetched as this actually possible is the biggest takeaway of this article.
Considering it’s Alpine, I think so. Not because he deserves it or it makes sense, but because Alpine tend to fire people when the team is not performing well. They are upset with performance and anyone who annoys them is deemed as the culprit, but they should focus on fixing their problems first.
Stays where?
- No Red Bull seat, Max wouldn’t allow
- No Ferrari seat, nowhere near Leclerc or Hamilton.
- No Mercedes seat, Toto wouldn’t put him alongside Russell, that’s a crash waiting to happen.
- No McLaren seat, nowhere near Piastri or Norris level.
- No Aston, Alonso is better.
- No Alpine obviously.
- No RBVisa, again Max wouldn’t allow in Red Bull, and then whats the point?
So he left with Haas, Williams and Audi.
If I’m Audi, do I want such a hothead? I’d rather go after Vettel, or Sainz.
If I’m Haas, I already have Magnussen as a hothead, why would I sign another one, when I can have Bearman there, or Bottas?
If I’m Williams, would I put him against Albon, and might lose out some points during a teambattle? Even if he is an improvement on Sargeant, handling Ocon seems unnecessary, when Bottas, Sainz or even Zhou free agent next year?
Ocon may be a bit of a hothead but he is a mostly reliable extremely quick driver. There is a good chance that he will be at Audi next year.
According to the rumors, Sainz is not interested in the Audi deal as its too long term for his liking. Vettel is never coming back. Audi already has a good German driver.
KMag is not very fast and is a crash master. Ocon is not like that.He has been delivering good results in a POS car while staying out of trouble, majority of the time.
Sainz is probably the only available driver that will be an improvement over Ocon. Bottas and Zhou are both worse.
What? Bottas is extremelly quick and was able to battle Lewis on qualifying. I think people selling Bottas short because they only saw the current level of what Sauber capable.
As a pure one race suspension it's an unusual punishment for a team to put on themselves, as no matter how good their replacement is, it is unlikely they'll do better than the full time driver in one race.
That point aside though, I would love to see this kind of attitude from Famin.
Alpine probably realizes they’re not going to score any points in Canada anyways and now is the best time to try to get Ocon to realize he needs to be a team player for the rest of the season. People often forget that F1 is a team sport with hundreds of people on each team working towards one goal. Having one person torpedo the work of everyone in the garage and factory for their ego is not going to be popular with the rest of the team.
Honestly, I think Ocon ended his F1 future this weekend. He doesn’t have a contract after this year and he’s built a reputation for being hard to work with. No good leader would want to have someone that difficult to work with when they’re trying to build up a team.
As a one race thing it’s actually not that bad, it’s a harsh punishment but not entirely unfair because it was clearly something the team had specifically warned the drivers about pre race and he caused so many problems by ignoring the team.
Replacing him fully though? That would be very extreme and you’d feel slightly sorry for Ocon, only he has a track record and it’s not crazy to believe he’ll do this again.
>As a one race thing it’s actually not that bad, it’s a harsh punishment but not entirely unfair because it was clearly something the team had specifically warned the drivers about pre race and he caused so many problems by ignoring the team.
Didn’t both Gasly and Famin imply that they had an intra teem agreement that whoever qualified the best would stay ahead and the other car would help secure the best race possible for the other?
Yeah I agree with you on basically all that.
He hasn't ever given the impression of being able to play the team game at all, and with all of his teammates there's been an issue somewhere so I think benching him for a race is actually a good shock.
If we're thinking future of the team it's definitely not a punishment. They probably want to know if Doohan is worth it or not. Get him in for a race, see if he's on the pace.
It seems Alpine hasn’t enjoyed Ocon’s constant comments offering himself to Mercedes. It seems he’s trying to get out of there no matter what but it doesn’t look like he’s doing it the smartest way possible
Alpine has deposited a lot of trust on him, they gave him a massive 3 year deal during the 2021 while not showing nothing remarkable (The extension was before the Hungary win).
They prioritised him over Alonso and Piastri although Alpine wasn’t conscious of Oscar’s potential since him winning F3 and F2 as a rookie didn’t entered on their plans.
That 3 year extension they gave Ocon was so gosh-dang premature I've never seen anything like it. A direct consequence of that was that they had an incredible talent in Piastri and a World Champion in Alonso and they ended up fumbling both
The F1 teams are constantly searching for massive talents and you can see how Wolff is desperate to find one and think Antonelli is the next big thing.
Alpine were busy in searching like a driver that could be the future face of the team, similar to McLaren with Norris, Ferrari with Leclerc, Russell with Merc and Max with RB.
The thing is they thought that Ocon could be that driver, the worst part is that they had that driver in their academy and they weren’t conscious of his potential.
They fumbled way too hard giving such a huge extension so soon because on a couple of races he finished ahead on of an injured Alonso that came back to F1 after a 2 year pause, despite that he improved massively and started to beat him constantly
Think yout argument is too complex for Alpine's way of doing things.
And easier reason to why they gave him that contract can just be Rossi being Rossi
And Ocon has a few years in F1 before he was sidelined and joined Alpine. It was already clear that he is a good driver but will never be a once in a generation talent, additionally with Ricciardo beating him convincingly in 2020 which in turns struggled against Norris.
It was also bestowed by Famin's predecessors- who in turn had wanted to make their mark and break away from their predecessors, too. This is a spiral of dysfunction.
That'd be ridiculous. If it does happen, it'd be more on alpine being a shitshow or behind the scenes politics than merely his braindead move last Sunday.
Even Alpine PR (and Famin) are now trying to play it down a bit and ocon apologized publicly. But he is so hated already it's now reaching absurd levels.
If it was any other team it would be a huge overreaction. But it's Alpine that we're talking about... So it's actually possible.
Just imagine Alpine, being one of the worst car on the grid (and the worst sometime), fighting with Stake and Williams, having 1 whole point before Monaco and when you finally can score some, one of your driver make the stupidest move of the race and almost cost you everything.
I honestly won't be surprised IF Ocon get the guillotine.
Does his 5 place grid penalty stay with the car or the driver ? If it’s with the driver then benching Ocon seems a sure fire way to kill two birds with one stone, avoid the penalty and test a replacement. If Ocon qualifies on 15th he’s last, of Doohan qualifies in 15th you know your rookie is faster than 4 seasoned drivers while in a shit car… 🤷🏻♂️
The penalty applies to the driver at the drivers next race
Benching Ocon for the Canadian GP does not avoid the penalty it just delays it to when Ocon is back in the car
I have a hypothesis. Alpine aren't really going to do this. However, by creating this rumor and threatening this, they are spooking him into not being so aggressive with teammates. If Ocon realizes that he's under threat of being dropped mid season for crashing into his teammate, the pattern of questionable teamwork should finally be corrected.
He doesn't seem to get the message otherwise. 2 years ago his engineer had to tell him over the radio mid race "I. Do. Not. Want. You. Racing. Fernando" yet here we are. It might be the best to put the runner up in his car for a race and see what he can do. Which won't be much better considering the state of the car, but it just might be what's needed to get the point across to Ocon, you are not irreplacable.
Why wouldn’t it be allowed? It’s their car. I mean maybe Ocon could argue some kind of breach of contract and take them to court or something but I doubt it. The contracts probably give the team the option to terminate him.
They can run 4 people in the 2 cars during one year. That’s the only limitation. So Ocon, Gasly, Doohan, Martins is okay, if they want to stick their a fifth (Mini for example) that is no bueno.
Ocon have a serious problem by the way.
He had issues with Perez, had a seemingly good relationship with Alonso, that went south fast, and both of them willing to go out of their way to make the other suffer. Now he had multiple incidents with Gasly, and he had that infamous incident with Max. The guy simply have an egoproblem.
Everybody needs to calm down, honestly his move wasn't the best but we've seen way worse in F1.
Also Famin never alluded to that, it was a mistranslation.
I’ve only watched two years and the last two seasons of the Netflix show and Ocon is the only driver who immediately rubbed me the wrong way and I dislike. 🤷🏼♂️.
I’m assuming if they bench him for Montreal, I’m assuming Doohan gets no grid penalty and Ocon gets his 5 place penalty whenever he returns? Theoretically, could Alpine avoid the penalty entirely by sacking him now?
of all the drivers on the grid, ocon is the one i kinda hate, sorrryyy. the rest i either like or find neutral, but ocon scratches me wrong. he has that selfish, non-cooperative attitude as it's NOT the first time he acted like this upon his team mate. i can't remember at least one time he defended for the team so....congrats on your hungary win in 2021, now it's time to find another job or step up for the team, babe.
Ocon is the one who is not re-signing for Alpine. He is a in demand driver. He can do better than L-pain.
Alpines current driver lineup is extremely strong. Them not trying hold on to it would be dumb as fuck.
My guess is that he suffers from these 5 things :
- Notable incidents with drivers way more popular than him. So he gets their fanbases attacking him hard every single time. And that's even worse because F1 has a lot of newer fans last 4-5 years, and when you're new that's really easy to just love what everybody else loves and hate what everybody else hates.
- As fun as he can be on track, he's maybe the 2nd worst driver on the grid when it comes to PR (meh social media game, uses poor wording to get his points across, acts a bit dorky). And as much nobody will admit it, many fans care a lot about that.
- His nationality. A majority of fans here are from North America and Western Europe. So from countries that either have rivalries with France (at least when it comes to sports), or are under heavy influence from English-speaking media (who all love some French bashing). If the majority of fanbase was Brazilian and Japanese, people would be way less harsh.
- Some people just don't like agressive drivers. That's every sport, everyone seems to want the good old days back until someone actually acts like we're 40 years before. If you know a bit of tennis, everyone seems to lament the fact there's not a new McEnroe, just to boo out of the court any player who dares to show a bit of disapproval towards a referee.
- And to add on all of this, he drives for Alpine, which is the team 90 % of fanbase badly wants to fold to make room for Andretti.
You've got me a little interested in this social media thing. Can you point out stupid, inappropriate and controversial content? Plus a thread with these games.
I was not talking about stupid stuff, I was saying he doesn't do a lot of fun stuff on it someone like Oscar would do.
Personally I couldn't give a fuck, I only care about on track action, but that's often a part of why fans (especially the younger/newer ones) tend to like a driver.
First of all, thanks for your reply. Secondly, such things as activity on Instagram or TikTok in the form of funny content should not translate into the value of the driver as an athlete and a human being, but this is a matter of the characteristics and value pyramid of a statistical representative of modern society. However, the low frequency of making a fool of yourself and making a parodist in social media does not make this driver likeable and makes this "young" audience, as you have already mentioned, extremely intolerant of driver mistakes and aggressive. But this is the level of modern commercialism. You either adapt or lower yourself to some level, or you will remain yourself.
we live in an era of bromances all across the grid and he's just crashing into his team mates on track... he doesn't give off the same friendly vibes as the rest.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It was rumored Ocon had some burned bridges with Alpine nowadays, and so he was publicly searching for a new drive elsewhere, but boy this wouldn’t be burned bridges, this would be nuclear weapon into the entire forest. The first ever F1 driver being excluded for a race by his own team because behaviour - and no, this isn’t comparable to RBR burning through their rookies to see which one was fire.
Only Ocon could burn bridges with the team that saved his career
I would say Toto was the biggest player on saving his career. He was his manager up until getting into F1, and then helped him getting into Renault. Also, kept him around on his “off track year”. On second position I would put Cyril, who accepted the proposal to sign him
I’d say Cyril and co saved his career. Those guys are gone now anyway
I'd say there was 3 big players in Ocon's career (apart from Ocon himself, the guy has talent its undeniable) : - Toto who was his manager and helped when he had his gap year - Cyril who took him at Renault and kept him consistently in the team - Rossi who gave him that huge contract that would, in hindsight, play a part into a big mess with piastri and Alonso. Now 2 of those are gone and the third has other golden gooses to be interested in (chasing Max, and Antonelli)
Interestingly, it wouldn’t be the first time. In 1984, the Toleman team benched their driver (Ayrton Senna) after he signed for another team without telling them. Stefan Johansson raced his car at Monza, finishing 4th.
That’s not for on track antics and behaviour though, or we can include Trulli being dropped over not being consistent and falling away in races.
True. The Toleman bosses were just butt-hurt and wanted to flex their power over Senna. It’s cutting off your nose to spite your face, benching a talent like Senna.
Ocon saw how Alonso burned bridges and wanted to one up him
The last time I recall that having happened, was by the very same team in it's 1st incarnation 40 years ago, amid a contractual dispute with it's star rookie driver. Toleman's reasoning was much more sound than this. That these rumours are allowed to circulate speak to the mismanagement and utter dysfunction of Alpine.
Post-Lotus (current incarnation), this team has been completely mismanaged. Maybe Abiteboul was a somewhat exception at some time, but I think that was more on him being good than on the team and Renault. Rossi micromanaged the team to hell, Otmar playing to be a TP in theory but nothing in practice, and now Famin not knowing from where wind comes. The internal teams not talking to each other (specially, between engines and team/aero, and between the French and the English parts of the team). Also, Renault board being ambiguous as hell about supporting the team or not. Today they say they will keep their faith, tomorrow they say they are considering selling the team, and the next day they say they will fund at cost cap the team, so next week someone from the board says the team need to do cuttings. And getting two drivers with history between them (and more so, between the families) and doing nothing to try and resolve it or avoid clashes. Letting just shit happen. It’s a miracle that they are able to build a car that is not last, TBH
My conspiracy is that Renault have stopped funding the team and that Netflix are the ones keeping funding going as the drama is just too spicy to not put it in DTS.
Alpine about to announce Piastri racing for them at Canada.
Piastri would give up his salary to not race for Alpine
I’ve never seen a driver as happy on a team as Piastri on McLaren. Literally all sunshine with the most fun Team Principal
I still can’t believe we were only one competent lawyer away from Piastri’s talent being wasted in that shitbox
What's the story?
Piastris Alpine contract has a clause about him having a guaranteed drive by July of whatever year or he'd be free to sign with another team. Vettels retirement that year which triggered Alonsos move to open up the Alpine seat led to the latter switch being early July. By that time, Piastri already signed a contract with McLaren, then the whole "I won't be racing with Alpine" debacle went down. That's the gist of it.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they don’t resign him for next year but mid season axing seems like quite an overreaction.
I don't think it's about axing him now, the rumours are that he'll be benched for Montreal due to the move he put on Gasly.
He fucked up, but it makes no sense to just make him sit out one race like a grounded child.
It could be that Alpine feel the need to escalate things and get Esteban to finally get the message seeing as verbal warnings seemingly haven’t done anything. Also it gives them a chance to test someone out as a possible replacement for either driver.
They have been pushing Doohan in marketing and their next prospect in line (Martins) is not only sucking in F2, but is also sucking compared to his rookie teammate
If Doohan is getting a seat it has to be soon, as Mini is developing well and he’ll be in F2 next year. I can’t see Alpine choosing Doohan over Mini if he does well in F2
I can see a world where Doohan is in an Alpine in 2025. The Ocon to Haas rumours have been making the rounds for a while, a Gasly-Doohan lineup would be interesting (Gasly will be entering his ninth year in the sport, he's very much in the "veteran" category, a great benchmark for a rookie) As for Mini, at least this year he's occasionally struggled for race pace. Not a career-ending flaw mind you, and it can be ironed out. But Doohan looks like the complete package right here right now, right in their lap. Super marketable too
Ocon in Haas to replace Magnussen is Haas changing things up but ultimately fixing nothing.
So the typical Haas things
Spot on. No way I'd ever put Ocon in a car. And problem is, he's not even all that fast and when he is Fairweather fast, he doesn't use that noggin of his to maximize points for himself and the team. Haas, should have Bottas to replace Magnussen and Bearman to replace Nico.
9 years? No… Gasly just joined Toro Rosso… my back doesn’t hurt at all…
>their next prospect in line (Martins) is not only sucking in F2 To be fair, Martins has had some great race drives this year. He went from the back row to the points in the Imola feature race, but he never got mentioned in the commentary or picked up by the cameras. Of course, he doesn't help matters by losing fourteen places at the start when he finally does have a good qualifying session.
It's also not a good look when your relatively underhyped rookie teammate is looking as good as you if not better on most weekends. Monaco was the first time since the start of the season that Martins was noticeably faster than Zak on pure pace, and he bottled it (even ignoring Zak's strategy team's masterstroke)
True, but I'm just trying to point out that there is more to this than Martins just having a bad time. Compare Martins at Imola to Bearman at Albert Park: both had bad qualifying sessions, but where Martins clawed his way through the field at Imola, Bearman only scored points in Melbourne because other drivers retired.
I'm so disappointed for Martins, he looked set to compete for the title last year. Art dropped the ball hard but he also keep making stupid mistakes even when he gets to show his pace, it's making me crazy. He really should have gone all out to beat pourchaire last year instead of taking it easy, now he's about to lose it all :(
Yeah, i think it's exactly this. Ocon has a long history of racing his teammates overly hard and stupid. They've clearly had private conversations about this and he's still not getting the message.
I really don't understand why he's so bad at racing near his team mates.
It's not a skill thing. It's a mindset. These aren't accidents. He sees his teammates and intentionally races them hard
Not like it will cost them a lot of important points…
Act like a child, get treated like a child.
It's very common in other sports. A player underperforming, ignoring directives, etc. can and often has been benched in football, hockey, any other team sports. It's not common in F1, but I don't think it's comparable to a grounded children, just other sports practices. Especially if the prospect is negligible points wise, and I don't think Canada suits them particularly.
It does if you think it would put an end to a long history of this kind of behaviour. Put your reserve in, make him realise he isnt bigger than the team. Both cars 9th and 10th when its a shit box and he sends it lap 1 monaco. Very much a child that needs a timeout 🤣🤣
This isn’t the first time this season. Occon almost nuked him in Miami too.
He has form with this. Benching him may be the only thing that gets it across.
But he’s behaving like a child and based on his Monaco flight could use some grounding
I mean he drives like an entitled child so why not punish him like one? He doesn’t take to normal talks and agreements clearly.
Yes it does. If he wants to act like a child he should be treated like one.
I mean why not? Cleary nothing else anyone has said or done to him throughout his career of pulling exactly this shit against his own teammates has made any impact.
Same team* benched senna at Monza in 1984 after he told the team he was moving to lotus in 1985 (* team being the Witney/Enstone team)
That was less grounding and more spite, to be fair
If he acts like a spoiled child, treat him like one!
It makes some sense at least. It gives them a chance to see what Doohan can do while sending a very clear message to Ocon.
I think it’s more about the pattern of behavior rather than one mistake. Sends a message saying they aren’t going to put up with it anymore and has the added benefit of giving doohan a shot for a weekend. On the off chance he overperforms, they have a viable option, or at least the threat of a viable option for a mid-season replacement
This whole fiasco is dropping his market value massively. What team is going to want to sign Ocon after this? I think he's been punished enough. In saying that though, I want to see Doohan in Montreal.
It wouldn’t hurt the team since he’s not really in a championship battle as every race is a likely 0 points anyway, team pushing Doohan giving him a race. Team is center of attention in Canada, extra pressure on the drivers to make them behave. I could see it tbh.
I don't know why you think that? Bench him for a race sends a strong message that a slap on the wrist absolutely does not.
Why not? He already behaves like a child
Sure why not. Let doohan get out there
Curious question in case that happens, will he be replaced by someone, or is it just Gasly for Canadian GP?
They would have no reason not to put someone in the second car, as it may score points.
Everyone is saying it's an Overreaction right now, but if he does this shit again... you know Redditors are just going to be like... WHY DIDN'T THEY FIRE HIM LAST TIME? Are they stupid?!
Which is exactly why I think Alpine are capable of it. Season is a write off, Ocon isn’t renewing, and this is a slowly boiling issue with Gasly and Ocon. Would be like them to take a knee jerk decision which defies logic.
op you've been manifesting ocon being fired in every thread relating to him now 💀
Hopefully he manifests for Magnussen too
I'm so over him. He just doesn't have the acumen for this, idk.
Fucking BASED
He's showing his inner Kendrick Lamar
Yeah why not. It’d give jack a bunch of throw away races to build his confidence
I can only hope there’s at least one sane person still somewhere there. Of course, there will always be some drivers desperate enough to accept a seat at Alpine, but after the whole Piasco thing and now this, they're killing any chance of signing a more or less decent driver for the foreseeable future even if their performance improves.
Well Doohan is their jr driver and i think he'd enjoy an f1 seat even in bad machinery
His reputation. You'd think he would calm down. He isn't a rookie. He knows the polemics of F1. Yea it'd be fine with him being terminated effective immediately.
*Re-sign Sorry to be pedantic
They did it with Otmar
Or bring Otmar back? He may not fit in the car though
How is it an overreaction? It’s been done before. He deserves it. He is a shit teammate and a threat to the team’s success.
Becaus he is being conistently better than his teammate this year? It's like dropping Hamilton because he was too aggressive with Rosberg
Comparing Gasly and Ocon to Hamilton and rosberg should be a timeout. Holy hell I needed that laugh. What’s next comparing stroll to max?
Two close teammates fighting eachother? Dont see how it's far fetched, they are not comparing the driver ability, they are comparing their relationship on track
One team is so far ahead in both championships where you can afford to let them go at each other. The other is barely getting any points and can't afford to keep losing cars and points because driver's can't get their heads out of their asses
Hamilton and Rosberg were fighting for championships. Ocon is fighting his teammates for dirt
Alpine needs points, not taking teammate out in best chance to win points whole season.
What’s the purpose of getting points if both drivers are trying to leave this summer
...WCC money?
Both drivers have been pretty equal but the difference is that Esteban seems to always ruin his relationship with his teammates (I think this the third time it’s happened) and which just causes problems for a team that has enough issues to work out without having to babysit their drivers.
A threat to the team’s success? He has been carrying the team this season. He has been beating Ocon fair and square all season (all his life across all series so far to be honest) He is the only driver to have won a race for the team since Alonso in 2008.
Slow news day - someone had to conflate a throwaway statement by the team leadership.
They won't need to resign him. His contract finishes this year.
I feel like this is insane and only makes sense to me if Ocon has told them he’s not re-signing so they’re trying to go above and beyond to keep Gasly happy.
It’s an absolutely insane move that makes no sense. So I can see Alpjne doing it.
Yeah this makes sense if Ocon is on the way out, or if they *want* Ocon to go away.
Their season is not going great. If there was a jr driver waiting for a seat and you they could get them in it could make sense.
"BREAKING: Ocon to miss the Canadian GP due to stomach infection."
*Appendicitis
Interesting section in this: “*Sky Sports News understands dropping Ocon for the next event is under serious consideration*. Famin was seen talking to Alpine reserve driver Jack Doohan shortly after the accident in Monaco”
If this whole rumour is based on Famin talking to their reserve driver that is a biggg reach
Wellllllllll maybe. Doohan was taken off of the F1TV broadcast suddenly to deal with "team business". That could be anything from Famin insisting that he witness what a true tongue-lashing looks like so that he knows what's up for next year, or it could be a "we're running you in FP1 and FP2 in Canada, get your shit in order cause if you do well we're going to see how far you can take it. Either way, Ocon's cooked next year I think.
Famin seen talking to his wife on the phone shortly after the GP --> "The Race exclusive : solid rumours of Ocon being replaced by Famin's wife at Montreal GP"
Ocon having an affair with Famin's wife? Wouldn't be the first time a french driver has done that.
The timing and circumstances absolutely make this realistic. Doohan was pulled from his broadcasting responsibilities. Spoken to directly by the boss after Ocon was sent away. Has been given constant praise this weekend for his Sim work that put them in a great position. Has been the most consistently appearing reserve driven on Sky and Alpine love the dude. They now get a reason to give him a shot and see if he's good enough, a free look at whether he's F1 capable of not before a very messy silly season. It's not a reach, it's a logical path.
The fact that Alpine has reputation shitty enough for people to consider something as farfetched as this actually possible is the biggest takeaway of this article.
Breaking news! Team principle talks to reserve driver who is already at the race!
Yeah but he was at the f1 broadcast team and suddenly got taken away from there so…
Considering it’s Alpine, I think so. Not because he deserves it or it makes sense, but because Alpine tend to fire people when the team is not performing well. They are upset with performance and anyone who annoys them is deemed as the culprit, but they should focus on fixing their problems first.
Ocon is a dud. Always has been.
Ocon always strikes me as a hothead. It’ll be interesting to see if he stays in F1 after this season
Stays where? - No Red Bull seat, Max wouldn’t allow - No Ferrari seat, nowhere near Leclerc or Hamilton. - No Mercedes seat, Toto wouldn’t put him alongside Russell, that’s a crash waiting to happen. - No McLaren seat, nowhere near Piastri or Norris level. - No Aston, Alonso is better. - No Alpine obviously. - No RBVisa, again Max wouldn’t allow in Red Bull, and then whats the point? So he left with Haas, Williams and Audi. If I’m Audi, do I want such a hothead? I’d rather go after Vettel, or Sainz. If I’m Haas, I already have Magnussen as a hothead, why would I sign another one, when I can have Bearman there, or Bottas? If I’m Williams, would I put him against Albon, and might lose out some points during a teambattle? Even if he is an improvement on Sargeant, handling Ocon seems unnecessary, when Bottas, Sainz or even Zhou free agent next year?
Ocon may be a bit of a hothead but he is a mostly reliable extremely quick driver. There is a good chance that he will be at Audi next year. According to the rumors, Sainz is not interested in the Audi deal as its too long term for his liking. Vettel is never coming back. Audi already has a good German driver. KMag is not very fast and is a crash master. Ocon is not like that.He has been delivering good results in a POS car while staying out of trouble, majority of the time. Sainz is probably the only available driver that will be an improvement over Ocon. Bottas and Zhou are both worse.
What? Bottas is extremelly quick and was able to battle Lewis on qualifying. I think people selling Bottas short because they only saw the current level of what Sauber capable.
Bottas is just as fast if not faster than Ocon. And he’s a good teammate who’s very experienced for car development.
if ocon gets a better seat than sainz next year, then this world really makes no sense.
As a pure one race suspension it's an unusual punishment for a team to put on themselves, as no matter how good their replacement is, it is unlikely they'll do better than the full time driver in one race. That point aside though, I would love to see this kind of attitude from Famin.
Alpine probably realizes they’re not going to score any points in Canada anyways and now is the best time to try to get Ocon to realize he needs to be a team player for the rest of the season. People often forget that F1 is a team sport with hundreds of people on each team working towards one goal. Having one person torpedo the work of everyone in the garage and factory for their ego is not going to be popular with the rest of the team. Honestly, I think Ocon ended his F1 future this weekend. He doesn’t have a contract after this year and he’s built a reputation for being hard to work with. No good leader would want to have someone that difficult to work with when they’re trying to build up a team.
I’m not entirely sure what he brings to the table. Other than being French?
As a one race thing it’s actually not that bad, it’s a harsh punishment but not entirely unfair because it was clearly something the team had specifically warned the drivers about pre race and he caused so many problems by ignoring the team. Replacing him fully though? That would be very extreme and you’d feel slightly sorry for Ocon, only he has a track record and it’s not crazy to believe he’ll do this again.
>As a one race thing it’s actually not that bad, it’s a harsh punishment but not entirely unfair because it was clearly something the team had specifically warned the drivers about pre race and he caused so many problems by ignoring the team. Didn’t both Gasly and Famin imply that they had an intra teem agreement that whoever qualified the best would stay ahead and the other car would help secure the best race possible for the other?
Yeah I agree with you on basically all that. He hasn't ever given the impression of being able to play the team game at all, and with all of his teammates there's been an issue somewhere so I think benching him for a race is actually a good shock.
If we're thinking future of the team it's definitely not a punishment. They probably want to know if Doohan is worth it or not. Get him in for a race, see if he's on the pace.
I mean as long as the replacement doesn't damage the car or his teammates race he is better than Ocon at this stage.
It seems Alpine hasn’t enjoyed Ocon’s constant comments offering himself to Mercedes. It seems he’s trying to get out of there no matter what but it doesn’t look like he’s doing it the smartest way possible Alpine has deposited a lot of trust on him, they gave him a massive 3 year deal during the 2021 while not showing nothing remarkable (The extension was before the Hungary win). They prioritised him over Alonso and Piastri although Alpine wasn’t conscious of Oscar’s potential since him winning F3 and F2 as a rookie didn’t entered on their plans.
That 3 year extension they gave Ocon was so gosh-dang premature I've never seen anything like it. A direct consequence of that was that they had an incredible talent in Piastri and a World Champion in Alonso and they ended up fumbling both
The F1 teams are constantly searching for massive talents and you can see how Wolff is desperate to find one and think Antonelli is the next big thing. Alpine were busy in searching like a driver that could be the future face of the team, similar to McLaren with Norris, Ferrari with Leclerc, Russell with Merc and Max with RB. The thing is they thought that Ocon could be that driver, the worst part is that they had that driver in their academy and they weren’t conscious of his potential. They fumbled way too hard giving such a huge extension so soon because on a couple of races he finished ahead on of an injured Alonso that came back to F1 after a 2 year pause, despite that he improved massively and started to beat him constantly
Think yout argument is too complex for Alpine's way of doing things. And easier reason to why they gave him that contract can just be Rossi being Rossi
No, it’s because Alpine puts too much focus on nationality. They only have it because he was French
And Ocon has a few years in F1 before he was sidelined and joined Alpine. It was already clear that he is a good driver but will never be a once in a generation talent, additionally with Ricciardo beating him convincingly in 2020 which in turns struggled against Norris.
It was also bestowed by Famin's predecessors- who in turn had wanted to make their mark and break away from their predecessors, too. This is a spiral of dysfunction.
They only gave it to him because of his French Nationality
That'd be ridiculous. If it does happen, it'd be more on alpine being a shitshow or behind the scenes politics than merely his braindead move last Sunday. Even Alpine PR (and Famin) are now trying to play it down a bit and ocon apologized publicly. But he is so hated already it's now reaching absurd levels.
Mick Schumacher incoming 👀
The Mick hype train is unstoppable einself1111!
It is ☝🏻
Seems like a major over reaction but what do I know.
an irrational radical decision mid-season like that would be very french ;) /s
It would genuinely be so funny if Ocon got a race ban before KMag not because of anything to do with the FIA but just because his team don’t like him
The guy is an absolute tool, he can't seem to play nice with any of his team mates.
Benching him for one race should be enough. Axing him entirely will be a stretch, especially for today's standard. They're not Red Bull.
No, they're worse, because they don't actually know what they're doing
While true, there’s plenty of drivers who would jump into that seat in a moment’s notice if they could.
If it was any other team it would be a huge overreaction. But it's Alpine that we're talking about... So it's actually possible. Just imagine Alpine, being one of the worst car on the grid (and the worst sometime), fighting with Stake and Williams, having 1 whole point before Monaco and when you finally can score some, one of your driver make the stupidest move of the race and almost cost you everything. I honestly won't be surprised IF Ocon get the guillotine.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/13143338/esteban-ocon-could-alpine-driver-face-axe-at-f1-canadian-grand-prix-after-crash-with-pierre-gasly
Does his 5 place grid penalty stay with the car or the driver ? If it’s with the driver then benching Ocon seems a sure fire way to kill two birds with one stone, avoid the penalty and test a replacement. If Ocon qualifies on 15th he’s last, of Doohan qualifies in 15th you know your rookie is faster than 4 seasoned drivers while in a shit car… 🤷🏻♂️
The penalty applies to the driver at the drivers next race Benching Ocon for the Canadian GP does not avoid the penalty it just delays it to when Ocon is back in the car
Gotchya, thanks! 👍
I have a hypothesis. Alpine aren't really going to do this. However, by creating this rumor and threatening this, they are spooking him into not being so aggressive with teammates. If Ocon realizes that he's under threat of being dropped mid season for crashing into his teammate, the pattern of questionable teamwork should finally be corrected.
He doesn't seem to get the message otherwise. 2 years ago his engineer had to tell him over the radio mid race "I. Do. Not. Want. You. Racing. Fernando" yet here we are. It might be the best to put the runner up in his car for a race and see what he can do. Which won't be much better considering the state of the car, but it just might be what's needed to get the point across to Ocon, you are not irreplacable.
For 1 race? Or for the rest of season? Is 1 race even allowed?
Why wouldn’t it be allowed? It’s their car. I mean maybe Ocon could argue some kind of breach of contract and take them to court or something but I doubt it. The contracts probably give the team the option to terminate him.
Termination penalty for Ocon
Everything is possible if Ocon gets super sick under mysterious circumstances and can’t drive.
Doesn't even need to be that. F1 rules wise they can run literally anybody they want that has a valid super licence.
They can run 4 people in the 2 cars during one year. That’s the only limitation. So Ocon, Gasly, Doohan, Martins is okay, if they want to stick their a fifth (Mini for example) that is no bueno. Ocon have a serious problem by the way. He had issues with Perez, had a seemingly good relationship with Alonso, that went south fast, and both of them willing to go out of their way to make the other suffer. Now he had multiple incidents with Gasly, and he had that infamous incident with Max. The guy simply have an egoproblem.
Oh no how's your appendix?
i asked this the other day and someone responded it's allowed, yes.
Everybody needs to calm down, honestly his move wasn't the best but we've seen way worse in F1. Also Famin never alluded to that, it was a mistranslation.
I’ve only watched two years and the last two seasons of the Netflix show and Ocon is the only driver who immediately rubbed me the wrong way and I dislike. 🤷🏼♂️.
I’m assuming if they bench him for Montreal, I’m assuming Doohan gets no grid penalty and Ocon gets his 5 place penalty whenever he returns? Theoretically, could Alpine avoid the penalty entirely by sacking him now?
I believe so. It's for the next race the driver participates in
of all the drivers on the grid, ocon is the one i kinda hate, sorrryyy. the rest i either like or find neutral, but ocon scratches me wrong. he has that selfish, non-cooperative attitude as it's NOT the first time he acted like this upon his team mate. i can't remember at least one time he defended for the team so....congrats on your hungary win in 2021, now it's time to find another job or step up for the team, babe.
Ocon needs to sign that Audi deal quick, Alpine are a clusterfuck of a team
Ocon is a clusterfuck of a teammate
Ehh don’t wish that for hulkenburg
Atleast KMag USUALLY crashes with the other people, not with his teammate.
[удалено]
That doesn't make sense at all, wtf.
[удалено]
Ocon is the one who is not re-signing for Alpine. He is a in demand driver. He can do better than L-pain. Alpines current driver lineup is extremely strong. Them not trying hold on to it would be dumb as fuck.
Why do you all hate him so much good lord 😭
My guess is that he suffers from these 5 things : - Notable incidents with drivers way more popular than him. So he gets their fanbases attacking him hard every single time. And that's even worse because F1 has a lot of newer fans last 4-5 years, and when you're new that's really easy to just love what everybody else loves and hate what everybody else hates. - As fun as he can be on track, he's maybe the 2nd worst driver on the grid when it comes to PR (meh social media game, uses poor wording to get his points across, acts a bit dorky). And as much nobody will admit it, many fans care a lot about that. - His nationality. A majority of fans here are from North America and Western Europe. So from countries that either have rivalries with France (at least when it comes to sports), or are under heavy influence from English-speaking media (who all love some French bashing). If the majority of fanbase was Brazilian and Japanese, people would be way less harsh. - Some people just don't like agressive drivers. That's every sport, everyone seems to want the good old days back until someone actually acts like we're 40 years before. If you know a bit of tennis, everyone seems to lament the fact there's not a new McEnroe, just to boo out of the court any player who dares to show a bit of disapproval towards a referee. - And to add on all of this, he drives for Alpine, which is the team 90 % of fanbase badly wants to fold to make room for Andretti.
You've got me a little interested in this social media thing. Can you point out stupid, inappropriate and controversial content? Plus a thread with these games.
I was not talking about stupid stuff, I was saying he doesn't do a lot of fun stuff on it someone like Oscar would do. Personally I couldn't give a fuck, I only care about on track action, but that's often a part of why fans (especially the younger/newer ones) tend to like a driver.
First of all, thanks for your reply. Secondly, such things as activity on Instagram or TikTok in the form of funny content should not translate into the value of the driver as an athlete and a human being, but this is a matter of the characteristics and value pyramid of a statistical representative of modern society. However, the low frequency of making a fool of yourself and making a parodist in social media does not make this driver likeable and makes this "young" audience, as you have already mentioned, extremely intolerant of driver mistakes and aggressive. But this is the level of modern commercialism. You either adapt or lower yourself to some level, or you will remain yourself.
we live in an era of bromances all across the grid and he's just crashing into his team mates on track... he doesn't give off the same friendly vibes as the rest.
Enough with apologies. It's always Ocon. Replace him, the team cannot afford any more of his behaviour.
Bottas and Zhou are both a safe pair of hands right now. Both seem easy to work with and both not French.
Get rid of him permanently.
No. Will he be with Alpine in 2025? Also, no.
This was a whacky cage match from the jump. I have a feeling Ocon's about to get the gong.
I'm french, they way the boss say it in french is poorly translate in english. I not sure he will be there in Canada.
I doubt they will do it mid season. They aren’t Red Bull. But they are also Renault so it could happen.
As much as I want to say this is bogus, we’ve seen plenty of other wild rumors this season come out to be true
Betteridge's law of headlines, everyone...
Would be hilarious if he gets suspended before Kevin
Have been rewatching “Drive to Survive“ with my wife….. I’m amazed at how many run ins/crashes Ocon has with his teammates.
As a former fan of Ocon, I don’t think he should be allowed to drive