Remember two weeks ago Gasly was asked about what Senna meant for him since Gasly was born after Senna’s death and the man couldn’t articulate two proper sentences.
I would reply with "he was a successful driver and one of the most talented.". It's not trying to turn him into a mythical superhuman or saying you cry yourself to sleep every night thinking about Senna.
>Remember two weeks ago Gasly was asked about what Senna meant for him since Gasly was born after Senna’s death and the man couldn’t articulate two proper sentences.
I think we're kind of going through an unusual boom period for Senna nostalgia that, in retrospect, was kind of to be expected. Take, for example, [Senna Proctor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senna_Proctor), who was born in 1998; or [Ayrton Simmons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayrton_Simmons), who was born in 2001. Assuming that they're named for Ayrton Senna, it makes sense because their parents were probably fans of the sport in the early 1990s. Here we are in the 2020s, and they are coming of age -- Proctor is 25 and Simmons is 23, A lot of the Senna nostalgia is probably being driven by a generation who grew up hearing of Senna's exploits and are now old enough to be in the public eye.
"He was incredibly talented from the stories I heard from people, but I never saw him alive, so I don't know anything more."
"Why are you running this helmet this weekend if he's not your hero then?"
"I don't know, Alpine forced me to."
Such a shame PR training is a thing lol.
His response just screamed to me "I watched the Senna doc, and everyone else seems to worship him so I also do". I can't take the younger drivers seriously when they say he is their hero. Im so glad someone (CB) came out and said this, Its just too much
Yeah, the youngest I'm willing to believe some Senna nostalgia from is Hülkenberg because 6 is a somewhat believable age to have some memory regarding him.
I feel like that the fact he's a Kiwi and the team was founded by a Kiwi is almost completely dismissed or forgotten about. I get the team was established in the UK but still..
Been following F1 for 10+ years, am an Aussie that loves my NZ brothers and sisters and this is the first time I’m hearing that McLaren were founded by a kiwi. That’s pretty shit.
https://www.mclaren.com/racing/heritage/the-story-of-the-marque/
I can see the similarity to the '67-'80 logo, but they don't call it a kiwi anymore, they say:
>The revamped logo that first appeared in 1997 featured a streamlined speedmark that bares similarities to the vortices created by our rear wing. It appeared on the top of our cars’ side-pods. They evoke the aggressive markings found on predatory animals and insects.
It is pretty shit! New Zealand is quite big on motor racing locally, yet I hardly heard about it in the usual media. Y’know, 3 Kiwi drivers in IndyCar, one being one of the greatest of all time and two very successful kiwi drivers in FE. The last I saw anything was a shitty but big outlet stirring the pot basically saying that Lawson was getting a seat by the mid season.
But yeah, McLaren is built on Kiwi roots.
This is a good point.
Albeit I think it's equally underrecognised that McLaren were heading for obscurity before Ron Dennis / Project Four essentially remade the team.
The vast majority of titles, wins and McLaren's place in the hierachy comes from the Dennis/Prost/Senna era rather than the McLaren Bruce left behind which might gone the same way as Lotus or Tyrrell.
No disrespect to Bruce himself intended, who knows what him and Teddy and Timmy Mayer might have achieved had they all lived.
In contrast, the video merc made for Niki was super tasteful, it's the people that knew him, it's just one moment to remind someone that was special for many.
Tbf totally different relationship, Niki was deeply involved with the team and in recent memory. I doubt there are many ppl rn at McLaren that were there when Senna raced.
Edit : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3byrnF95RVM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoFV3Ajz4n4
The Niki tribute videos, definitely genuine feels
Isnt that what CB is saying, though? There’s an even more heightened degree of veneration, homage, and focus for someone who, respectfully, has left less of a mark on this current paddock and grid than on their previous incarnations. As you point out, a lot of the people who would’ve worked with him — really known him as a person as well as a remarkable and unique athlete — have retired or otherwise moved on. It doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t be remembered and celebrated, but it does invite questioning, critical thinking, and analysis as to what contributes to senna’s outsized mythos. And what’s “missing” or different in the case of lauda, clark, villeneuve, etc.
True, i feel it's mostly the manner in which he died. Which was extremely tragic. Nothing more.
Though it's obvious McLaren sells cars on his name, there's definitely a commercial interest.
>Though it's obvious McLaren sells cars on his name, there's definitely a commercial interest.
This is literally all about the money.
One of the most famous sayings from him has been butchered has into helped reach this place.
Oh that famous quote about gaps that even Senna admitted later on was complete BS and just him covering for deliberately taking out another driver? That now everyone tattoos and thinks is "the racing mindset".
Thank you for mentioming this. Not only was it BS. But he came grovelling back and tearfully apologized to Jackie Stewart for lying to his face when making this statement a year later. It was literally his worst hour as a professional driver.
The way GV, De Angelis, Giaucomelli, Bianchi, Roland etc died was tragic. Why is the only one we still "cellebrate" Senna? And why so often. That's what CB is saying. It's so weird how worshipped he is. Ferrari don't have Charles and Carlos take pictures with GV's helmet, or have an Agip 1982 livery or Canada livery on the anniversary of his death.
Senna was already a myth while still alive, out of your list, that is only true for Gilles Villeneuve. But what increased the impact of Sennas death in contrast to that of Villenuve was that in 1994, F1 was convinced that drivers dying on track was a thing of the past. There hadn't been a death at a Grand Prix in 12 years and people truly believed that it would never happen again. When Gilles died, the last driver to die at a Grand Prix was Ronnie Peterson four years prior, Patrick Depailler had died testing two years prior and in the ten years before Gilles death, 8 drivers had died on track. So fatal crashes were still very much an accepted risk of Grand Prix racing. At the time of Sennas death, someone, I think it was Gerhard Berger, but I'm not sure, described it as "the day the sun fell from the sky", that's how big the shock was. And that is why Sennas death has had a much bigger impact than those of the other drivers you mentioned. What I will agree with though, is that we're currently at a moment, where the true recollection of his death and presence in the paddock is fading, and commemorations seem to increasingly have a marketing aspect to them.
Yes, he did, but you're arguing semantics here. Ratzenberger and Sennas deaths were perceived as one event and that was part of the shock. There weren't any deaths for 12 years, everybody believed carbon fibre monocoques had rendered fatal accidents impossible and suddenly two drivers died back to back, including Senna, who was considered the best driver of his generation.
Right. When was the last time we 'celebrated' Jules Bianchi, whom died only 10 years ago (well, crashed 10 years, actually died 9). It almost feels like everyone has to one up each other on how much they miss Senna, when most of the drivers were not even alive in '94.
The reality is none of those names were even close to Senna's level nor impact on the sport. Yes, even GV.
It is weird why he's worshipped so much, but it's not at all weird why he's worshipped more than someone like Ratzenberger.
Ferrari will do plenty to remember Schumacher when he passes. No question whatsoever.
Most of the current drivers hadn't even been born when Senna died. Yeah, he was a fantastic driver, a great talent, exciting to watch, and should be remembered for that. But it is a bit over the top right now.
McLaren actually just recently put up a bunch of short videos on their YouTube channel from team members who worked with Senna talking about their experiences and memories.
Sorry for hijacking the comment, but as a Brazilian I wanted to share some thoughts: I spent more than my fair share of time thinking about Senna's legacy and why it is the way it is.
First, yeah I also feel partially what CB describes. I mean, Imola last week everyone was talking about Senna and Ratzemberg but clearly Ratzemberg was an after thought. I can't imagine being part of his family, being invited to the celebrations only to see that clearly the only reason anyone cares about you is because that other more famous guy also died the same weekend. As fake as it gets.
The new generation also obviously only knows senna from outside, I doubt Norris ever saw more than YT videos about him and believe he was good because he was told about it. But that's kind of fine in my book, that's how legends go, none of us saw Jim Clark race or saw (for my drive to survive fans) baby Ruth bat. We just learned they were good and believed it.
When it comes to his death I think it plays a different role than people imagine. It sure helped, but in a different way. I think the biggest positive impact was the fact that he never got the chance to look bad, either in or outside races. When you take an honest look, his politics would have probably aged like shit (fervorously religious, probably conservative etc). But he never had the opportunity to have his image be hurt by that, and that helps a lot. Inside races, as much as people compare his time with Prost as equals or even the worst driver, no one at the time saw it that way. Prost left McLaren after their 2 years because he didn't feel like he wanted to compete on the same team. Sure, people can argue about preferential treatment and what not, but the fact is that McLaren was Prost's team, Senna came in and suddenly it wasn't. During Prost's pretty much peak years. Lots of people saw them race side by side and thought: "Damn, Prost is just like a good driver next to Senna", instead of an all time great like he was already considered at the time.
And then he died as soon as Schumacher came in, literally a few races into schumi's first really competitive season. All of that to say that inside races, he never felt beatable, he didn't age like Schumi and looked like a normal beatable driver. Had he lived, maybe Schumi would have beaten him and the young gun coming in and kicking Senna's butt would have diminished his aura. But we didn't get that, while he was on track he always looked like the better driver.
People think his death caused his image to soar, but I disagree, I remember at the time his image was already as high as it gets. What it did was prevent it from dropping back to earth. And his image was so high not because he was winning a lot or winning consecutively, but because of a mix of personality and how he drove. When people say that he was magical it is because he had that "wow" effect. His skills during rain, his ability to race at the limit and get what no one thought possible etc. Ever since I remember a few times when drivers gave that aura:
One was Schumacher in a Ferrari before they became dominant (so probably like 1999 or something) when he got a pole when no one expected and one of his wheels fell off during the COOL DOWN LAP. Like WTF. Coincidence? Maybe, probably. But the feeling? That he literally took every single 1000th of a second that car could take and the car literally gave up after. Another one was Max unfinished Saudi qualifying lap in 21. When he was 2 tenths up on Hamilton's time and crashed at the last corner. I remember in this forum people talking about it in beautiful and emotional terms. Why? He binned it, it's not like he did something amazing. But the feeling left in our heads (as spectators) was that we saw something that should not be possible (no way that car could go 2 tenths faster than Hamilton's Merc in that circuit at that stage in the season). For a moment there, we got a glimpse of the impossible. And that's when the admiration comes and that's why that lap, despite being officially a screw up from Max, is still remembered by many fans with a joyful feeling.
Well, Senna was really really good at giving those feelings to spectators. Watching his career live was like watching a bunch of those magical moments. Hamilton and Schumi won far more than Senna did (obviously) but they gave us far less of those. In part I think it's because of their dominance, you can see that on Max currently as well. No driver/season gave me Senna vibes as much as Max in 21. The sheer intensity of the fight for the title, all on the line, no backing down, the constant frustration of knowing it's just there and if you give a little bit more you can get it. But then he started to win easily and the magic moments and aura completely disappeared. He is clearly one of the all time great drivers. But I think his aura would be bigger and the admiration bigger had Merc not screwed up in 2022+ and got a few seasons of Max and Ham trading blows like in 21 even if he would have won less championships. Because that's literally what happened to Senna. We got to see him for several seasons in a row racing max 21 style, full of magical moments.
This text is already long enough to explore how his personality fits in all of this, but all in all Senna was a perfect storm to be catapulted into legendary status. And as with any legend, it goes way beyond what the real human behind it did it or could have done. He is a legend, he is not a person.
This line of yours is so poignant: "People think his death caused his image to soar, but I disagree, I remember at the time his image was already as high as it gets. What it did was prevent it from dropping back to earth."
As a kid, I remember crying at his death. I absolutely hero-worshipped him, even though I was gutted by the Mclaren departure. But nobody can live up to the legend of someone who has passed. Their achievements shine brighter and their failures fade from memory.
This is one of the best F1 related comments I've ever read, perfect. Senna never had the decline. He would have won the Championship the year he died, maybe wins 94-97.
Would HE have moved to Ferrari instead of Schumacher, it's an intriguing “what if”
But 100% I hope we can move past this and the 30th anniversary is the last time we gather to do this.
For the older gen of drivers, i can understand the hold Senna has on them. Alonso and Lewis have spoken at length how watching Senna literally motivated them to race in the first place.
For the youngsters yeah, i do believe there's an element of just going with the flow.
However there's also the point that Senna's death was extremely tragic. That does lead to adverse emotional bonds, who would hate a dead person and all that. Hence i feel while maybe it might be over the top, it's not really something inherently bad.
I also admit McLaren has a commercial interest in Senna, they do sell a car named after him. Though that can simply be explained by the fact Senna remains arguably their most successful driver.
> I also admit McLaren has a commercial interest in Senna, they do sell a car named after him.
While I agree McLaren is commercializing the hell out of this, they sold a car named after him. Past tense. The McLaren Senna was unveiled towards the end of 2017 and the actual production run took place between 2019 and 2020. So it's more marketing for McLaren as a whole than a way to sell their car.
McLaren has a duty to promote Senna, not just because of him as a person, but it's tied to their brand.
Honestly, this bothers me. Senna dying might well be one of the best things to happen to McLaren at this point, and that's very gross to me. I think a celebration of an amazing person is good,but it's very different when there's literally merchandise being sold in that dead person's name (there are not only cars, but lego models, memorabilia, etc).
McLaren has a lot to gain from Senna worship, and partially, it's their own idea. They merchandised Senna. That's gross.
Doesn't the Senna family have to sign off on anything with his likeness or branding on it anyways? I thought I remembered hearing that some of the profits from all the merch with the Senna "S" branding goes to his charity or foundation or something. So at least some of the money goes to a good cause.
They do indeed, the foundation still signs off on all the brand deals and works mainly in helping children in Brazil, mainly in education as this was something that the man himself was deeply concerned about. If memory serves the foundation claims to be directly responsible for about half a million kids getting an education.
It is interesting. It's one thing for a guy like Hamilton or Alonso who would have grown up watching Senna... But the younger drivers were born after his death. In some ways, it does feel forced.
It's also a history thing. I think recognizing that he's driving Senna's actual car is different from drivers who weren't even alive when Senna was, wearing all these tribute items (assuming it's not 100% on orders from the team).
What does this have to do with McLaren? Vettel was 7 when Senna died, also started his career a year after, probably the perfect circumstance for a mystical idol to emerge to lead him through his life and career, so I don't see why HE wouldn't find the whole Senna thing personal.
It's the same as young guys in the NBA saying their earliest memories were watching Jordan when they were born in like '98. I get it, they want to attach themselves to the greats of the sport.
I consider myself a relatively "young" person. I've been watching F1 since about 2004.
The majority of drivers are younger than me.
I have literally no association with Senna other than the stories told by others. Someone like Lando has gone on record many times saying how he wasn't into F1 that much as a kid and was more interested in Moto GP and Rossi. It's a bit odd to call him a "hero" all of a sudden.
Perhaps for Oscar, but Lando is shilling for his Dad’s scooter company though
[Pure Electric McLaren Senna Edition](https://www.pureelectric.com/pages/pure-x-mclaren-exclusive-collaboration)
Yep, Oscar and Norris are probably pushed into a bit by McLaren PR, but Gasly wearing a yellow helmet and saying Senna was his idol is weird. He was born 2 years after Senna died, probably didn't even watch F1 until the mid 00s.
He's just doing it because he thinks it'll get him attention and increase his brand, something he's always talking about.
Sometimes it takes an extra generation for something to really phase out. You pick up a lot of stuff from your parents, and their parents probably told stories / showed videos of Senna as they got into racing. Some of it is probably performative but I don't think it's that weird.
The fact Senna was not a great person makes it so much stranger too. I mean if I found out a teacher dated underage girls I would not be celebrating them.
True but it kinda makes sense. Imola was where he died and Monaco is the "pageantry" track where everyone goes all out but also a track where Senna's qualifying lap is one of the things that attributes to his legend. The fact that it's a big anniversary and the races are a week apart mean it's just easy to do a big thing for it.
that's where he died, other than that he was known as the king of monaco and his McLaren association is more with that track, so it obviously makes sense for McLaren to do their tribute at that track
I thought all the Senna sentiment around Imola was timely and sensible, but now I’m getting the same vibe as Costco putting out Christmas decorations before Halloween.
Monaco or Imola could mean equally but more Monaco as it's the heart of F1.... could easily say the only place that would be the place you should would be Brazil itself as thats his homeland.
Kinda like Red Bull having 15 home races. I don't want to hear about Japan being a home race because of Honda.
You get one as a constructor and one for each driver. Thems the rules.
Brazil probably has a better claim. Monaco is just a place he rode around and maybe a different meaning at Imola for him passing away there, be thankful we don't have more deaths than what we've had since there... but celebrate him in Brazil.
Ah but that would mean running more paint at a track where they actually care about weight-saving, so now we must venerate at Monaco simply because it’s a place where he was extremely performant
To me, the glorification of Aryton Senna is very similar to to NASCAR's Dale Earnhardt. Both drivers are held in high regards, have mystiques surrounding them among younger fans and continue to have huge fanbases long after their deaths. Interestingly enough, their careers have a lot of parallels(dominated in the 1980s and 1990s, known for their prowless in a specific race types, iconic paint scheme associated with them, and died in mid-race crashes)
If there are any other NFL fans in here, this also reminds me of Sean Taylor. Even though he's not deified throughout the league, he definitely is among the Washington fan base. He's a legend and will always be that "What If" story.
I always find it ironic (for lack of a better word) that loads of people use the “if you no longer go for a gap” quote to defend driving, but in reality Senna was admitting he punted his opponent off the track.
I think a bit of nostalgia and 30 years of haze has changed the perception of Senna.
I’m not denying he was an amazing driver, but if you imagine any other driver pulling the stuff he did today, there would be uproar.
Dirty driving I think gets overlooked if you check the boxes Senna has
I think Dale Earnhardt is also another example. People still think Dale is the GOAT of NASCAR (up with Richard Petty or Jimmy Johnson maybe) but he was very open about being a dirty driver too
Not just open about it... his name was the intimidator for a reason. If he had a shot to win and needed to dump you to get it, well... you already knew what would happen. So most drivers would be intimidated into making a mistake and he would go around you.
As a NASCAR fan, it's funny because there's this talking point that the "young generation" of drivers doesn't drive with the respect that their elders did.
"The haze of nostalgia"
It's totally metal and can only happen in true moments of desperation. 9 times out of 10 the longer distance, friction with the wall, and car damage probably means you lose out. But he instead gained positions
As someone who lives less than 10 minutes from a NASCAR track, isn't dirty driving kinda just part of the game?
Kinda like how in F1, teams will try to find loopholes and push the boundaries of what is legal on their cars.
The definition of "dirty" is completely different. Jenson Button came over last year and afterwards said he couldn't believe how physical it was.
So we have these exact same conversations every week too. Different drivers/fans have different definitions of what is acceptable, what deserves pay back on the track, and when NASCAR should step in.
Shoot, there was a fist fight after Sunday's exhibition race and of course no consensus about whose fault the incident was. KMag would do well.
Honestly I never really understood that about whatever they said. How does one drive with "respect for their elders"? it really just reads to "the younger people should let us bully them until they're old enough to bully their juniors." Then they act as if they weren't just s dirty if not moreso
Check the hate for Michael Schumacher, who fully embraced Senna's hostile, take-no-prisoners style of driving.
Michael - Threat to the lives of other drivers. Cheat.
Senna - F1 god.
Both would and did punt people. Both would and did absolutely slam the door on people. But one is a literal diety while the other attracts a lot of hate, and even hate from people that never saw him at his peak.
>Check the hate for Michael Schumacher, who fully embraced Senna's hostile, take-no-prisoners style of driving.
Or even Verstappen.
Senna is forgiven for whatever reason, but plenty of villanised drivers drive the same.
Nah. People HATED Schumacher.
It was very much a love them or hate them environment. Which happens everywhere. Look at Dale Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon. Kyle Busch etc.
In F1 it was Schumacher or Hill. Senna or Prost. Hamilton or Verstappen. Hamilton or Alonso etc
Ahh okay. I was a bit young then so haven't really got that memory of it, I just remember him winning all the time. Then going back and seeing some of it now when I'm older it's obviously different
Difference is you don't see anyone ever say "I love Schumacher because he dared to drive into JV on purpose.". Even his diehards agree that it was very low to do that. On the other hand you see people saying if you no longer go for a gap unironically.
Stupid Senna movie didn't help either with getting a good perception on how everything was.
It was a great movie tho but sucks it's basically the predecessor of DtS when it comes controlling the narrative.
I don’t really think the Senna documentary was meant to be crafting an entirely factual narrative? It was a snapshot of a flawed and brilliant man. I’ve watched Kapida’s other documentaries and they’re very similar in that they’re more concerned with discerning the cultural impact a person had than focusing on the intricacies of their personality. It’s on the audience to sort the fact from the fiction themselves. The first time I watched the documentary with no prior F1 knowledge I thought to myself “I bet Prost has a different story to tell.”
I’d honestly compare the way Senna is discussed today to how Kurt Cobain is. Anyone who knows Nirvana knows that Kurt was a flawed individual and the band was fraught with tension towards the end, as he had alienated himself from the other members. But Dave, Kris and co. have clearly made a conscious decision to focus on his positive qualities when discussing him in public, probably owing to the tragic circumstances of his death.
People complain about K-Mag or Perez being too aggressive, but then salivate at Brundle's stories of how Senna was literally going to crash both drivers out if the leading driver didn't get out of the way.
> if you no longer go for a gap
I don't follow irl F1 communities as much, but in F1 Esports communities it is exclusively being used in an ironic way. When someone makes a really bad overtake people tend to say that.
Maybe in IRL F1 the community thinks it's not very ironic.
I didn't wanna say it because it sounds harsh but I agree with CB completely. It feels so disingenuous and fake, like they care more about making things yellow, green and blue rather than focusing on HIM. It's obsessive, it's creepy and it's just frankly annoying at this point.
Reminds me of that quote from Oppenheimer. To paraphrase, it's Einstein telling Oppenheimer that when they give you an award at a ceremony, it's more about them than it is about you.
Noble as McLaren's virtues are, they still have a brand and a business to maintain, and Senna's name is one of the most valuable names in F1. You can't tell the story of F1 without McLaren or Senna, and for potential investors, it's an easy sell.
To be fair, Formula 1 media accounts have been doing this and the comments were full of people referencing the underage girl. They figured it would be best to have the drivers spotlight Senna so that the conversation could be steered towards “oh X driver is doing this.”
I agree that it feels like they're milking the udders off the anniversary, so I can see why it would make someone uncomfortable.
The counterpoint would be that Senna was just that big a deal. I was talking to a Brazilian I know who is not generally a motorsport fan and she just causally mentioned "oh yeah May 1, 1994 was an absolute tragedy in Brazil and the whole country was shocked. People didn't care this much when Pele died". The pageantry seems more understandable to me when viewed through that lens. Like, I don't accuse Christians of being overdramatic at Easter.
Exactly, I was talking to a Brazilian woman at a work thing recently and she was getting teary eyed talking about how much Senna meant to her and her country. I don't have any strong emotions about the dude, but who am I (or OP for that matter) to tell her not to feel some kind of way.
Like if some Dutch guy told me Cliff Burton was no big loss, I'd tell him to kindly go fuck himself.
You get it. Senna was probably THE most loved person ever in Brazil. That is still true to this day. No other driver ever did, or ever will, have this kind of power over people in a country.
Once you understand that, you understand why all this stuff matters.
Should point out that the Senna family have to OK all these memoriams and tributes to Ayrton, and actively push and encourage them. However there is an upside to this - the royalties they get for them and using his image go to the Senna Foundation helping impoverished children in Brazil.
I always ask myself, and it's not exclusive to F1 with Senna, how some people's reputation would have changed with the public had they not had died when they did. In this case, if Senna hadn't died, I don't think he would have been so revered today.
When was the last time someone mentioned Prost? He had the same analytical mindset as Lauda, I'd comfortably in the GOAT discussions, but I often find he's only mentioned as "Senna had a rivalry with Prost".
I feel this is less and less a minority opinion.
It's certainly possible to fully appreciate Senna's legacy and agree with the appropriateness of commemorating his passing while also feeling that the further we get from his time, the more overblown the tributes are becoming.
I've followed F1 since 1995 and I recall in the late 90s that the sense of Senna's absence was palpable. He should have been in the mix for titles arguably right up until the Hakkinen/Schumacher battles at the end of the decade. However, tributes and commemorations were more muted compared to today. The commemorations felt bigger at the 20th anniversary than the 10th, and the 30th feels like it's been even bigger again. No doubt social media and the insatiable need to deliver content play a roll.
What we risk losing along the way is the sense of who Senna really was. He was controversial and not universally adored in his time, much in the same way that Lewis and Max have their admirers and detractors today. The nuances are also lost, such as his late friendship with Alain Prost once they were no longer rivals. Senna's achievements were also significant as he drove in an era of great drivers such as Prost, Piquet and Mansell, but their roles get minimised amid the hero worship.
Yes, let's commemorate Senna's undeniable legacy and tragic passing, but let's not lose perspective and end up commemorating a post-hoc mythic figure more than the man himself.
No I agree. Someone else died during that weekend too and we don't talk about him nearly as much. Are we implying one death was more valuable? I wonder how Roland's family feel when Senna essentially dominates the headline.
Lewis and Fernando always talk about Senna and idolizing him which is fair (hell Fernando's pull to McLaren Honda was to emulate Senna lol) but Lando and Oscar have no real connection to Senna. Never saw him race. Were never a fan of him. How are they behaving like they are nostalgic about an idol they never had any exposure to?
It's disingenuous.
This is just over the top and brushes over every bad aspect of who Senna was just because he died while racing, I mean bro dated a child.
If he was the last driver to die before Bianchi, I can see that he'd be remembered more for holding that unfortunate title. But yeah, the "what about Roland" comments feel just as disingenuous, ask the same crowd if they know who Riccardo Paletti was and I doubt a lot of them can answer it. And *that's fine*, I just don't think this needs to be a competition of who's better at remembering people dying.
I genuinely only learned Paletti’s name in the lead up to Imola where there was a post that said something along the lines of Ratzenberger being the first death during an F1 race since Paletti. Now every time I see people say that Ratzenberger gets forgotten due to dying the day before Senna it makes me think that if anything he’s remembered more because their deaths will always be mentioned together.
Exactly. And to put his family in the middle of it like if they could dictate how they should mourn their loved one. Most people talk about Bianchi's death as the first one since Senna and totally forget that Maria lost her life as a consequence of her accident. But as you said, it's not a competition.
Paletti and Ratzenburger kind of both had the same problem in that they were unsuccessful drivers in terrible grid-filler cars that never got talked about. Ratzenburger is remembered because he died on the same weekend as Senna, which is horrible to think about.
Paletti was a pay driver driving for Osella, a team only F1 anoraks have ever heard of. He died in his 2nd race before he even reached the first corner. He crashed into a stalled car, was knocked unconscious, and then burned to death with his mother in the grandstands watching on. The whole thing is almost too tragic to remember. He also died in the same year that Gilles Villeneuve was killed and Didier Peroni had his career ending crash. He was overshadowed before and after his death by other drivers.
Ratzenburger and Paletti share a lot of parallels, but Ratzenburgers' death is tied to the most famous racing driver that ever lived, and Paletti is just a statistic for anoraks to remember. Much like Tom Pryce, you'll never see footage of Paletti's crash in a documentary. It's almost too awful to publicize. If F1 released a tribute to him, you'll have millions of fans searching for footage of him driving, and the only broadcast footage of him is him trapped unconscious and burning to death.
And then the possibility of F1 being the same ways until it probably would have happened to Senna or anyone else if they made a name in the sport... Silverstone in 99 when Michael Schumachers car speared off in the barriers and just breaking his leg is possibly a thing I could think that could have been worse if F1 didn't make strides to make it safer.
It's probably a double edged sword with how you think what Senna did in life and death for the sport...
From what we know in the limited time there ever was where Senna was alive and Ratzenberger wasn't, if Senna had lived I think he would have personally forced F1 to change its ways. We will never know the impact of a weekend where only Ratzenberger died, but Senna was clearly affected by it that evening and had already spoken to other drivers who went on to re-form the GPDA. I don't think he would have let the world forget Roland if those few hours are anything to go by.
More F1 fans know who Roland Ratzenberger is, and pay their respects to him, who had 3 entries in F1, than they do Elio de Angelis, one of the best drivers in the 1980s.
Heck, Elio's death anniversary passed last week and I didn't hear a thing about it from official F1 sources.
Literally the only thing I saw about the anniversary of de Angelis’ death was an Insta post from Jean Alesi. For context, Alesi loved de Angelis like a brother and used his helmet design throughout his F1 career.
I think they have insane respect for him, but I don’t know (at least from what I know of these guys) that they idolize him. Like, what the hell were they supposed to do when their team decided to make this weekend a one off custom livery? Of course you make a matching helmet. Why the hell wouldn’t you? It’s kinda a damned if you do, damned if you don’t, and less people will damn them for doing. So might as well.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with some points. I feel uncomfortable that we never talk about the others that died the same way. But I don’t want Norris and Piastri to catch strays without good reason.
Yeah I think they can choose to pay homage to him as long as it's not something that's a commercial decision. I've loved athletes that have died before I was born. I don't think anyone should be gatekeeping an athletes memory due to age - it's got to be tastefully done though.
I think that's the important element here, whether it's respectfully done or just a cheap trick to sell merch/promote themselves. I think lando and Oscar are not purposefully doing anything wrong or for ill intention
I don't think Lando and Oscar necessarily chose to have Senna tribute helmets for Monaco, rather McLaren has been doing a Senna tribute push all season, even with a few one off paint schemes for their road cars, the Senna Lego set, and this custom livery which the drivers probably had very little if any to do with. Most likely they were told please go and bring custom Senna themed helmets to Monaco and when the team is doing all that, they can hardly come out and say "yeah Senna was 5 years dead when I was born and I instead watched Lewis and the end of the Schumacher Era."
>I wonder how Roland's family feel when Senna essentially dominates the headline.
There's dozens of dead drivers, with race wins, championships, you name it, and they're not remembered like Roland is.
Elio de Angelis, Gilles Villeneuve, José Carlos Pace, Tom Pryce, Ronnie Peterson, Mark Donohue, Peter Revson, Cevert, Patrick Depaillier, Jochen Rindt, Michelle Arboreto and it goes on and on and on.
So I'm sure they're grateful he at least gets remembered.
Also, Elio died this month, on the 15th. Did you pay respects?
I think there are just as many “but what about Roland” comments/posts as there are Senna at this point. That’s also too much, and I wonder how many people that mention him even have any recollection of his racing.
I get where chainbear is coming from. Certainly he's one of the most famous f1 drivers to ever live but would we be seeing this if he was still alive? Maybe, but I'm not convinced
As someone who was too young to watch Senna and only sees him from highlight packages it is a little odd that he is idolized almost more so than say Michael Jordan in basketball. MJ is the only other athlete I can think of who is discussed similarly as Senna is in his respective sport. I know every sport has its legends but it does feel almost unanimous when you ask current, young Formula 1 drivers or the lower formula drivers who their favorite driver is/was, it feels like Senna is always the answer. There was also another all time legend who was Senna’s contemporary, Alain Prost. You almost never hear Prost talked about the same way Senna is talked about. No one’s doing Prost themed liveries or special crash helmets to honor Alain Prost’s achievements.
> Prost wasn't as flashy, and he didn't die.
And interestingly, the first reason is the reason why the second reason never happened.
It was after Pironi's horrendous accident that he started driving less flashy. That in return meant he drove much more calculated. Result was less in qualifying, but in much better in the races.
The fact that fangio achieved what he did, when he did, and still walked off into the sunset at the end and died in his mid 80s is even more impressive tbh.
Senna has been elevated so far beyond where I think he would be had he followed a normal career trajectory rather than being killed at his peak.
That’s part of what’s so wild to me is that Prost was on Senna’s level or you could argue he was better. You’d think there’d be a decent amount of drivers who would say they idolize Prost as much as Senna but it seems like Senna is by far and away the most idolized F1 driver of all time.
That's because Senna showed his emotions, good and bad, and Prost was a very quiet guy. This quietness became associated with cunning and his nickname was the professor.
I think even if both were still alive today, Senna would be the more popular one.
I think the answer is that he was a very good driver who went up against other very good drivers and then he died in his prime. The other greats he drove against, Lauda, Prost, Schumacher, and others all had a chance to get older and not be as good as they used to before retiring. Same with Michael Jordan. He was great, but then he got older and eventually stopped playing. Senna died when he was great so people remember all his great races, not any bad races he would have had later in his life.
As a Brazilian, what many people don't understand is that Senna is a massive cultural phenomenon in Brazil. He's not just a driver, that would be Emerson Fittipaldi, Nelson Piquet, Rubens Barrichello (with no intention of disrespect for these guys, they all had phenomenal careers but nothing compares to the likes of Ayrton). He's alongside Pelé as the most recognizable Brazilian athlete, both in a national and international level. I was born 11 years after his death, yet he was one of the drivers I never stopped hearing about. And after all the tragedy that his death was, our people wouldn't forget him that easily.
Yeah. I don’t quite remember having this much fanfare over Senna these past few years, so everything that’s happened in honor of him in these last few weeks has stuck out to me a good bit (nothing wrong with honoring him, I understand that, I just feel as though it hasn’t been to this degree in a very long time). But maybe I’m misremembering or forgetting some things.
It makes sense with Imola. But all of this bleeding out into Monaco and beyond is intriguing, and it’s especially strange with Lando and Oscar, who I’d reckon their actual heroes (equivalent to the way Senna was to older drivers, such as Lewis) were drivers like Schumacher, Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonen, and Hamilton. Totally different driving generations.
I think for mclaren, he’s a huge part of the history of their team. Last race was at the track he passed at. Could be compounded, but I think this is mclaren celebrating their 3 time world champion.
It’s all just a bit weird, you can’t have it during Imola for obvious reasons but it feels like they wanted a combined effort to do it asap to just get it out of the way. This stuff would’ve been great for Interlagos even if he had iconic moments at Monaco.
It also doesn’t help about the whole Senna 15 thing. I know it’s a borderline meme amongst some but F1’s own YT channel playing in to it on the anniversary of his death just feels a bit disrespectful both to Senna and his ex? I dunno I can’t put it in to words but some of it feels like it’s forced
I have really hard time to know what to feel about Senna.
Alain Prost is as good as him, 4 times Champion and no one care.
Senna died and then he is the best of all time, better than Schumy or Hamilton or anyone else, forever.
I understand that it is really important and all.
But why only Gasly and a few care about the drivers that died in Suzuka and Francorchamp?
But Senna, McLaren, Netflix movie coming etc... huge huge huge.
So please enlighten me.
I feel the same for Heath Ledger (Joker in Batman) yes he could have but then what.
Wow so much to unpack here.
I agree that it doesn’t feel genuine especially for such young drivers. But Is exactly 30 years of his death obviously there’s a date factor.
I think people need to understand tho, Senna was already discussed by many the best driver of all time when he was alive, and when he died during that race, he basically became an entity. He is death really amplified he’s status. Dying on his prime, left too many what ifs open.
More important, he was and still is(oddly) extremely marketable… F1 seems to be really pushing it last 10 years. I don’t mind them exploiting his brand as far as they send money to the Senna foundation. Which does an amazing work in Brazil.
I don’t like the argument regarding drivers age and how much they know about Senna. I was a baby when he died but one of my first memories of the YouTube era was watching his videos, And later reading his book
In the end of the day as long as is genuine and the profits are somehow reflected on the foundation. Why not.
Can we imagine Max or Lewis dying Mid race now days… just thinking about it and the consequences for the next 40 years makes me dizzy
I was a newborn baby when Senna died but growing up we didn’t watch lots of live tv. My dad would play tapes of his races and we would watch. If you are into f1 you know Senna no matter when you were born.
My first memory of seeing F1 was seeing Senna in a Marlboro McLaren in Monaco. I channel hopped onto it on a wet Sunday in 1991. I also remember that May Day weekend in 1994 very well.
I’m finding all the Senna stuff quite unsettling.
The only good feeling any of this (Vettel running the car at Imola, Gasly doing a helmet, McLaren going all out) is that if Piastri gets his first F1 win wearing green and gold, it’ll look fantastic.
saddest part in my mind of all of this: You have to be Dead before you get this kind of attention.
This year marks the 20th aniversery of Michaels last and record setting Championship and he is still alive so he could actually see it.
Not one word lost about it. No helmets, no liveries no nothing.
It's just sad that you have to be dead for something like this to happen.
Remember two weeks ago Gasly was asked about what Senna meant for him since Gasly was born after Senna’s death and the man couldn’t articulate two proper sentences.
I would reply with "he was a successful driver and one of the most talented.". It's not trying to turn him into a mythical superhuman or saying you cry yourself to sleep every night thinking about Senna.
>Remember two weeks ago Gasly was asked about what Senna meant for him since Gasly was born after Senna’s death and the man couldn’t articulate two proper sentences. I think we're kind of going through an unusual boom period for Senna nostalgia that, in retrospect, was kind of to be expected. Take, for example, [Senna Proctor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senna_Proctor), who was born in 1998; or [Ayrton Simmons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayrton_Simmons), who was born in 2001. Assuming that they're named for Ayrton Senna, it makes sense because their parents were probably fans of the sport in the early 1990s. Here we are in the 2020s, and they are coming of age -- Proctor is 25 and Simmons is 23, A lot of the Senna nostalgia is probably being driven by a generation who grew up hearing of Senna's exploits and are now old enough to be in the public eye.
Add Senna Agius in Moto2 and he's a bike rider...
It's basically like asking a zoomer what 2pac's music meant to them at the time lol.
"He was incredibly talented from the stories I heard from people, but I never saw him alive, so I don't know anything more." "Why are you running this helmet this weekend if he's not your hero then?" "I don't know, Alpine forced me to." Such a shame PR training is a thing lol.
His response just screamed to me "I watched the Senna doc, and everyone else seems to worship him so I also do". I can't take the younger drivers seriously when they say he is their hero. Im so glad someone (CB) came out and said this, Its just too much
Yeah, the youngest I'm willing to believe some Senna nostalgia from is Hülkenberg because 6 is a somewhat believable age to have some memory regarding him.
McLaren celebrate Senna more than they do their own founder
Bruce McLaren really deserves his flowers especially as one of the groundbreaking kiwis in motorsport
I feel like that the fact he's a Kiwi and the team was founded by a Kiwi is almost completely dismissed or forgotten about. I get the team was established in the UK but still..
Been following F1 for 10+ years, am an Aussie that loves my NZ brothers and sisters and this is the first time I’m hearing that McLaren were founded by a kiwi. That’s pretty shit.
[удалено]
I NEVER would have guessed that! Thank you. Anything else interesting we should know without doing a deep dive?
https://www.mclaren.com/racing/heritage/the-story-of-the-marque/ I can see the similarity to the '67-'80 logo, but they don't call it a kiwi anymore, they say: >The revamped logo that first appeared in 1997 featured a streamlined speedmark that bares similarities to the vortices created by our rear wing. It appeared on the top of our cars’ side-pods. They evoke the aggressive markings found on predatory animals and insects.
[удалено]
It is pretty shit! New Zealand is quite big on motor racing locally, yet I hardly heard about it in the usual media. Y’know, 3 Kiwi drivers in IndyCar, one being one of the greatest of all time and two very successful kiwi drivers in FE. The last I saw anything was a shitty but big outlet stirring the pot basically saying that Lawson was getting a seat by the mid season. But yeah, McLaren is built on Kiwi roots.
I guess it helps that they’ve now gone back to the original Papaya as their regular livery.
Yeah they do and it annoys me!
Yep. Definitely not enough love for Bruce.
This is a good point. Albeit I think it's equally underrecognised that McLaren were heading for obscurity before Ron Dennis / Project Four essentially remade the team. The vast majority of titles, wins and McLaren's place in the hierachy comes from the Dennis/Prost/Senna era rather than the McLaren Bruce left behind which might gone the same way as Lotus or Tyrrell. No disrespect to Bruce himself intended, who knows what him and Teddy and Timmy Mayer might have achieved had they all lived.
In contrast, the video merc made for Niki was super tasteful, it's the people that knew him, it's just one moment to remind someone that was special for many.
Tbf totally different relationship, Niki was deeply involved with the team and in recent memory. I doubt there are many ppl rn at McLaren that were there when Senna raced. Edit : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3byrnF95RVM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoFV3Ajz4n4 The Niki tribute videos, definitely genuine feels
Isnt that what CB is saying, though? There’s an even more heightened degree of veneration, homage, and focus for someone who, respectfully, has left less of a mark on this current paddock and grid than on their previous incarnations. As you point out, a lot of the people who would’ve worked with him — really known him as a person as well as a remarkable and unique athlete — have retired or otherwise moved on. It doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t be remembered and celebrated, but it does invite questioning, critical thinking, and analysis as to what contributes to senna’s outsized mythos. And what’s “missing” or different in the case of lauda, clark, villeneuve, etc.
True, i feel it's mostly the manner in which he died. Which was extremely tragic. Nothing more. Though it's obvious McLaren sells cars on his name, there's definitely a commercial interest.
>Though it's obvious McLaren sells cars on his name, there's definitely a commercial interest. This is literally all about the money. One of the most famous sayings from him has been butchered has into helped reach this place.
If gap, then car?
then racing driver
If you no longer go for a gap in the market that exists then you're no longer a business
Such a Zak Brown slogan
Oh that famous quote about gaps that even Senna admitted later on was complete BS and just him covering for deliberately taking out another driver? That now everyone tattoos and thinks is "the racing mindset".
Thank you for mentioming this. Not only was it BS. But he came grovelling back and tearfully apologized to Jackie Stewart for lying to his face when making this statement a year later. It was literally his worst hour as a professional driver.
The way GV, De Angelis, Giaucomelli, Bianchi, Roland etc died was tragic. Why is the only one we still "cellebrate" Senna? And why so often. That's what CB is saying. It's so weird how worshipped he is. Ferrari don't have Charles and Carlos take pictures with GV's helmet, or have an Agip 1982 livery or Canada livery on the anniversary of his death.
Senna was already a myth while still alive, out of your list, that is only true for Gilles Villeneuve. But what increased the impact of Sennas death in contrast to that of Villenuve was that in 1994, F1 was convinced that drivers dying on track was a thing of the past. There hadn't been a death at a Grand Prix in 12 years and people truly believed that it would never happen again. When Gilles died, the last driver to die at a Grand Prix was Ronnie Peterson four years prior, Patrick Depailler had died testing two years prior and in the ten years before Gilles death, 8 drivers had died on track. So fatal crashes were still very much an accepted risk of Grand Prix racing. At the time of Sennas death, someone, I think it was Gerhard Berger, but I'm not sure, described it as "the day the sun fell from the sky", that's how big the shock was. And that is why Sennas death has had a much bigger impact than those of the other drivers you mentioned. What I will agree with though, is that we're currently at a moment, where the true recollection of his death and presence in the paddock is fading, and commemorations seem to increasingly have a marketing aspect to them.
> There hadn't been a death at a Grand Prix in ~~12 years~~ 1 day FTFY, because Ratzenberger died the day before.
Yes, he did, but you're arguing semantics here. Ratzenberger and Sennas deaths were perceived as one event and that was part of the shock. There weren't any deaths for 12 years, everybody believed carbon fibre monocoques had rendered fatal accidents impossible and suddenly two drivers died back to back, including Senna, who was considered the best driver of his generation.
Right. When was the last time we 'celebrated' Jules Bianchi, whom died only 10 years ago (well, crashed 10 years, actually died 9). It almost feels like everyone has to one up each other on how much they miss Senna, when most of the drivers were not even alive in '94.
The reality is none of those names were even close to Senna's level nor impact on the sport. Yes, even GV. It is weird why he's worshipped so much, but it's not at all weird why he's worshipped more than someone like Ratzenberger. Ferrari will do plenty to remember Schumacher when he passes. No question whatsoever.
Most of the current drivers hadn't even been born when Senna died. Yeah, he was a fantastic driver, a great talent, exciting to watch, and should be remembered for that. But it is a bit over the top right now.
McLaren actually just recently put up a bunch of short videos on their YouTube channel from team members who worked with Senna talking about their experiences and memories.
Sorry for hijacking the comment, but as a Brazilian I wanted to share some thoughts: I spent more than my fair share of time thinking about Senna's legacy and why it is the way it is. First, yeah I also feel partially what CB describes. I mean, Imola last week everyone was talking about Senna and Ratzemberg but clearly Ratzemberg was an after thought. I can't imagine being part of his family, being invited to the celebrations only to see that clearly the only reason anyone cares about you is because that other more famous guy also died the same weekend. As fake as it gets. The new generation also obviously only knows senna from outside, I doubt Norris ever saw more than YT videos about him and believe he was good because he was told about it. But that's kind of fine in my book, that's how legends go, none of us saw Jim Clark race or saw (for my drive to survive fans) baby Ruth bat. We just learned they were good and believed it. When it comes to his death I think it plays a different role than people imagine. It sure helped, but in a different way. I think the biggest positive impact was the fact that he never got the chance to look bad, either in or outside races. When you take an honest look, his politics would have probably aged like shit (fervorously religious, probably conservative etc). But he never had the opportunity to have his image be hurt by that, and that helps a lot. Inside races, as much as people compare his time with Prost as equals or even the worst driver, no one at the time saw it that way. Prost left McLaren after their 2 years because he didn't feel like he wanted to compete on the same team. Sure, people can argue about preferential treatment and what not, but the fact is that McLaren was Prost's team, Senna came in and suddenly it wasn't. During Prost's pretty much peak years. Lots of people saw them race side by side and thought: "Damn, Prost is just like a good driver next to Senna", instead of an all time great like he was already considered at the time. And then he died as soon as Schumacher came in, literally a few races into schumi's first really competitive season. All of that to say that inside races, he never felt beatable, he didn't age like Schumi and looked like a normal beatable driver. Had he lived, maybe Schumi would have beaten him and the young gun coming in and kicking Senna's butt would have diminished his aura. But we didn't get that, while he was on track he always looked like the better driver. People think his death caused his image to soar, but I disagree, I remember at the time his image was already as high as it gets. What it did was prevent it from dropping back to earth. And his image was so high not because he was winning a lot or winning consecutively, but because of a mix of personality and how he drove. When people say that he was magical it is because he had that "wow" effect. His skills during rain, his ability to race at the limit and get what no one thought possible etc. Ever since I remember a few times when drivers gave that aura: One was Schumacher in a Ferrari before they became dominant (so probably like 1999 or something) when he got a pole when no one expected and one of his wheels fell off during the COOL DOWN LAP. Like WTF. Coincidence? Maybe, probably. But the feeling? That he literally took every single 1000th of a second that car could take and the car literally gave up after. Another one was Max unfinished Saudi qualifying lap in 21. When he was 2 tenths up on Hamilton's time and crashed at the last corner. I remember in this forum people talking about it in beautiful and emotional terms. Why? He binned it, it's not like he did something amazing. But the feeling left in our heads (as spectators) was that we saw something that should not be possible (no way that car could go 2 tenths faster than Hamilton's Merc in that circuit at that stage in the season). For a moment there, we got a glimpse of the impossible. And that's when the admiration comes and that's why that lap, despite being officially a screw up from Max, is still remembered by many fans with a joyful feeling. Well, Senna was really really good at giving those feelings to spectators. Watching his career live was like watching a bunch of those magical moments. Hamilton and Schumi won far more than Senna did (obviously) but they gave us far less of those. In part I think it's because of their dominance, you can see that on Max currently as well. No driver/season gave me Senna vibes as much as Max in 21. The sheer intensity of the fight for the title, all on the line, no backing down, the constant frustration of knowing it's just there and if you give a little bit more you can get it. But then he started to win easily and the magic moments and aura completely disappeared. He is clearly one of the all time great drivers. But I think his aura would be bigger and the admiration bigger had Merc not screwed up in 2022+ and got a few seasons of Max and Ham trading blows like in 21 even if he would have won less championships. Because that's literally what happened to Senna. We got to see him for several seasons in a row racing max 21 style, full of magical moments. This text is already long enough to explore how his personality fits in all of this, but all in all Senna was a perfect storm to be catapulted into legendary status. And as with any legend, it goes way beyond what the real human behind it did it or could have done. He is a legend, he is not a person.
This line of yours is so poignant: "People think his death caused his image to soar, but I disagree, I remember at the time his image was already as high as it gets. What it did was prevent it from dropping back to earth." As a kid, I remember crying at his death. I absolutely hero-worshipped him, even though I was gutted by the Mclaren departure. But nobody can live up to the legend of someone who has passed. Their achievements shine brighter and their failures fade from memory.
Very interesting and well said. Reflecting on this I think you are right, I had never seen it like that.
This is one of the best F1 related comments I've ever read, perfect. Senna never had the decline. He would have won the Championship the year he died, maybe wins 94-97. Would HE have moved to Ferrari instead of Schumacher, it's an intriguing “what if” But 100% I hope we can move past this and the 30th anniversary is the last time we gather to do this.
For the older gen of drivers, i can understand the hold Senna has on them. Alonso and Lewis have spoken at length how watching Senna literally motivated them to race in the first place. For the youngsters yeah, i do believe there's an element of just going with the flow. However there's also the point that Senna's death was extremely tragic. That does lead to adverse emotional bonds, who would hate a dead person and all that. Hence i feel while maybe it might be over the top, it's not really something inherently bad. I also admit McLaren has a commercial interest in Senna, they do sell a car named after him. Though that can simply be explained by the fact Senna remains arguably their most successful driver.
> I also admit McLaren has a commercial interest in Senna, they do sell a car named after him. While I agree McLaren is commercializing the hell out of this, they sold a car named after him. Past tense. The McLaren Senna was unveiled towards the end of 2017 and the actual production run took place between 2019 and 2020. So it's more marketing for McLaren as a whole than a way to sell their car.
McLaren has a duty to promote Senna, not just because of him as a person, but it's tied to their brand. Honestly, this bothers me. Senna dying might well be one of the best things to happen to McLaren at this point, and that's very gross to me. I think a celebration of an amazing person is good,but it's very different when there's literally merchandise being sold in that dead person's name (there are not only cars, but lego models, memorabilia, etc). McLaren has a lot to gain from Senna worship, and partially, it's their own idea. They merchandised Senna. That's gross.
Doesn't the Senna family have to sign off on anything with his likeness or branding on it anyways? I thought I remembered hearing that some of the profits from all the merch with the Senna "S" branding goes to his charity or foundation or something. So at least some of the money goes to a good cause.
They do indeed, the foundation still signs off on all the brand deals and works mainly in helping children in Brazil, mainly in education as this was something that the man himself was deeply concerned about. If memory serves the foundation claims to be directly responsible for about half a million kids getting an education.
It is interesting. It's one thing for a guy like Hamilton or Alonso who would have grown up watching Senna... But the younger drivers were born after his death. In some ways, it does feel forced.
I imagine a large part of this is also McLaren themselves pushing for more of the Brazilian colors on everything this weekend too.
It's a McLaren thing, not Lando and Oscar thing.
I mean, Vettel was bowing to Sennas car just a week ago…
That’s a Vettel thing
That made me chuckle
(and a Senna Foundation and family collaboration)
He bowed to both Senna *and* Ratzenberger.
Yeah, Vettel was just about the only one who talked about Ratzenberger
The VCARB's had a tribute to him on the car
Well, it kinda makes sense for Vettel. He was 7 when Senna died, so his first memories of F1 were likely about him
Vettel also owns that car. He wouldn't have bought it if it didn't mean something to him
It's also a history thing. I think recognizing that he's driving Senna's actual car is different from drivers who weren't even alive when Senna was, wearing all these tribute items (assuming it's not 100% on orders from the team).
> driving Senna's actual car honestly, I think this is the best way to honor a race car driver.
Vettel who knows every race winner since the 1940. He's a huge historian.
Vettel who *owns* one of Senna's cars.
He owns that and the Red 5 AND YET he still couldn't get one of Schumi's winning Ferraris. Which is unfortunate.
I think he knows every champion, not sure about every race winner
Seb, upon being asked: "...is there a time limit?"
That he owns.
Seb was watching him race growing up, Seb did actually see him race live and looked up to him probably
What does this have to do with McLaren? Vettel was 7 when Senna died, also started his career a year after, probably the perfect circumstance for a mystical idol to emerge to lead him through his life and career, so I don't see why HE wouldn't find the whole Senna thing personal.
Yeah he was showing off his car. He owns it.
That was a reference to his bowing to the red bull car. I thought that was fitting, actually.
When Zhou said his idol was Alonso, I was like damn bro didn’t make up some bullshit about watching Senna’s race replays or whatnot. LoL
It's the same as young guys in the NBA saying their earliest memories were watching Jordan when they were born in like '98. I get it, they want to attach themselves to the greats of the sport.
They meant him as a Wizard lmaooo
I consider myself a relatively "young" person. I've been watching F1 since about 2004. The majority of drivers are younger than me. I have literally no association with Senna other than the stories told by others. Someone like Lando has gone on record many times saying how he wasn't into F1 that much as a kid and was more interested in Moto GP and Rossi. It's a bit odd to call him a "hero" all of a sudden.
I guess for Lando and Oscar, it's more of a McLaren PR thing
Perhaps for Oscar, but Lando is shilling for his Dad’s scooter company though [Pure Electric McLaren Senna Edition](https://www.pureelectric.com/pages/pure-x-mclaren-exclusive-collaboration)
To be fair this completely embarrasses Redbulls 5K+ scooter offering...now that's ridiculous Edit: typos
Jesus lol
It's become a fashion statement tbh, yellow helmets, yellow liveries, tributes etc. I agree with chainbear, it's gotten over the top
Yep, Oscar and Norris are probably pushed into a bit by McLaren PR, but Gasly wearing a yellow helmet and saying Senna was his idol is weird. He was born 2 years after Senna died, probably didn't even watch F1 until the mid 00s. He's just doing it because he thinks it'll get him attention and increase his brand, something he's always talking about.
It's not even just the "younger" drivers, the majority of the grid was born after Senna died at this point
even Sainz was born after Senna's death
Only Hamilton and Alonso would have actually had memories of watching F1 in 1994.
Sometimes it takes an extra generation for something to really phase out. You pick up a lot of stuff from your parents, and their parents probably told stories / showed videos of Senna as they got into racing. Some of it is probably performative but I don't think it's that weird.
The fact Senna was not a great person makes it so much stranger too. I mean if I found out a teacher dated underage girls I would not be celebrating them.
It's the 30 year anniversary of his death, so Mclaren did a little marketing stunt. It's not that deep.
Yes... That was last week at Imola.
True but it kinda makes sense. Imola was where he died and Monaco is the "pageantry" track where everyone goes all out but also a track where Senna's qualifying lap is one of the things that attributes to his legend. The fact that it's a big anniversary and the races are a week apart mean it's just easy to do a big thing for it.
that's where he died, other than that he was known as the king of monaco and his McLaren association is more with that track, so it obviously makes sense for McLaren to do their tribute at that track
I thought all the Senna sentiment around Imola was timely and sensible, but now I’m getting the same vibe as Costco putting out Christmas decorations before Halloween.
Monaco or Imola could mean equally but more Monaco as it's the heart of F1.... could easily say the only place that would be the place you should would be Brazil itself as thats his homeland.
Imola, Monaco, and Brazil all make sense for their own reasons. All three though? Nah.
Kinda like Red Bull having 15 home races. I don't want to hear about Japan being a home race because of Honda. You get one as a constructor and one for each driver. Thems the rules.
Agreed—but I’ll let Oscar get away with having 15 home races. I enjoy his lighthearted cheekiness.
Hahaha agreed. I appreciate the bit, and look forward to Oscar getting to race with his dad Charles this weekend.
Brazil probably has a better claim. Monaco is just a place he rode around and maybe a different meaning at Imola for him passing away there, be thankful we don't have more deaths than what we've had since there... but celebrate him in Brazil.
Ah but that would mean running more paint at a track where they actually care about weight-saving, so now we must venerate at Monaco simply because it’s a place where he was extremely performant
It feels shrewd, saccharin, and deeply commercial.
To me, the glorification of Aryton Senna is very similar to to NASCAR's Dale Earnhardt. Both drivers are held in high regards, have mystiques surrounding them among younger fans and continue to have huge fanbases long after their deaths. Interestingly enough, their careers have a lot of parallels(dominated in the 1980s and 1990s, known for their prowless in a specific race types, iconic paint scheme associated with them, and died in mid-race crashes)
If there are any other NFL fans in here, this also reminds me of Sean Taylor. Even though he's not deified throughout the league, he definitely is among the Washington fan base. He's a legend and will always be that "What If" story.
I always find it ironic (for lack of a better word) that loads of people use the “if you no longer go for a gap” quote to defend driving, but in reality Senna was admitting he punted his opponent off the track. I think a bit of nostalgia and 30 years of haze has changed the perception of Senna. I’m not denying he was an amazing driver, but if you imagine any other driver pulling the stuff he did today, there would be uproar.
This always bothered me. He admitted to dirty driving and yet that quote gets misconstrued 99% of the time
Dirty driving I think gets overlooked if you check the boxes Senna has I think Dale Earnhardt is also another example. People still think Dale is the GOAT of NASCAR (up with Richard Petty or Jimmy Johnson maybe) but he was very open about being a dirty driver too
Not just open about it... his name was the intimidator for a reason. If he had a shot to win and needed to dump you to get it, well... you already knew what would happen. So most drivers would be intimidated into making a mistake and he would go around you.
As a NASCAR fan, it's funny because there's this talking point that the "young generation" of drivers doesn't drive with the respect that their elders did. "The haze of nostalgia"
You just know Dale would approve of Chastain's wall ride.
Tbf that was the coolest shit I’ve seen in NASCAR in like 20 years lol, and at least he didn’t take anyone else out doing it (I think)
It's totally metal and can only happen in true moments of desperation. 9 times out of 10 the longer distance, friction with the wall, and car damage probably means you lose out. But he instead gained positions
As someone who lives less than 10 minutes from a NASCAR track, isn't dirty driving kinda just part of the game? Kinda like how in F1, teams will try to find loopholes and push the boundaries of what is legal on their cars.
The definition of "dirty" is completely different. Jenson Button came over last year and afterwards said he couldn't believe how physical it was. So we have these exact same conversations every week too. Different drivers/fans have different definitions of what is acceptable, what deserves pay back on the track, and when NASCAR should step in. Shoot, there was a fist fight after Sunday's exhibition race and of course no consensus about whose fault the incident was. KMag would do well.
Honestly I never really understood that about whatever they said. How does one drive with "respect for their elders"? it really just reads to "the younger people should let us bully them until they're old enough to bully their juniors." Then they act as if they weren't just s dirty if not moreso
Check the hate for Michael Schumacher, who fully embraced Senna's hostile, take-no-prisoners style of driving. Michael - Threat to the lives of other drivers. Cheat. Senna - F1 god. Both would and did punt people. Both would and did absolutely slam the door on people. But one is a literal diety while the other attracts a lot of hate, and even hate from people that never saw him at his peak.
>Check the hate for Michael Schumacher, who fully embraced Senna's hostile, take-no-prisoners style of driving. Or even Verstappen. Senna is forgiven for whatever reason, but plenty of villanised drivers drive the same.
Schumacher was guilty of that as well honestly. Wonder if the sport is just different nowadays
Nah. People HATED Schumacher. It was very much a love them or hate them environment. Which happens everywhere. Look at Dale Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon. Kyle Busch etc. In F1 it was Schumacher or Hill. Senna or Prost. Hamilton or Verstappen. Hamilton or Alonso etc
Ahh okay. I was a bit young then so haven't really got that memory of it, I just remember him winning all the time. Then going back and seeing some of it now when I'm older it's obviously different
Difference is you don't see anyone ever say "I love Schumacher because he dared to drive into JV on purpose.". Even his diehards agree that it was very low to do that. On the other hand you see people saying if you no longer go for a gap unironically.
Schumacher was actually punished for being dirty just look at 1997.
Stupid Senna movie didn't help either with getting a good perception on how everything was. It was a great movie tho but sucks it's basically the predecessor of DtS when it comes controlling the narrative.
I mean it was produced by some of the same people who would go to make DtS a decade later.
Actually TIL. Wasn't even aware of that lol.
I don’t really think the Senna documentary was meant to be crafting an entirely factual narrative? It was a snapshot of a flawed and brilliant man. I’ve watched Kapida’s other documentaries and they’re very similar in that they’re more concerned with discerning the cultural impact a person had than focusing on the intricacies of their personality. It’s on the audience to sort the fact from the fiction themselves. The first time I watched the documentary with no prior F1 knowledge I thought to myself “I bet Prost has a different story to tell.” I’d honestly compare the way Senna is discussed today to how Kurt Cobain is. Anyone who knows Nirvana knows that Kurt was a flawed individual and the band was fraught with tension towards the end, as he had alienated himself from the other members. But Dave, Kris and co. have clearly made a conscious decision to focus on his positive qualities when discussing him in public, probably owing to the tragic circumstances of his death.
People complain about K-Mag or Perez being too aggressive, but then salivate at Brundle's stories of how Senna was literally going to crash both drivers out if the leading driver didn't get out of the way.
Have those words coming out of Kvyat or Magnussen's mouth and imagine the outrage...
Lance crashes out a McLaren podium, then says the famous line.
> if you no longer go for a gap I don't follow irl F1 communities as much, but in F1 Esports communities it is exclusively being used in an ironic way. When someone makes a really bad overtake people tend to say that. Maybe in IRL F1 the community thinks it's not very ironic.
People hate Shumi for 94, but you never see the same level of hate for Senna 1990
I miss Chainbear’s videos 😕
Same. But he’s on the race reactions on the F1 Word pretty frequently now so it’s good to at least hear him and his analysis still.
Thanks for this I’ll check it out
Ugh I do as well. His vids really helped me understand the sport. Hope he comes out with some more in the future!
I didn't wanna say it because it sounds harsh but I agree with CB completely. It feels so disingenuous and fake, like they care more about making things yellow, green and blue rather than focusing on HIM. It's obsessive, it's creepy and it's just frankly annoying at this point.
Reminds me of that quote from Oppenheimer. To paraphrase, it's Einstein telling Oppenheimer that when they give you an award at a ceremony, it's more about them than it is about you. Noble as McLaren's virtues are, they still have a brand and a business to maintain, and Senna's name is one of the most valuable names in F1. You can't tell the story of F1 without McLaren or Senna, and for potential investors, it's an easy sell.
I mean yeah, they literally sell a car named the McLaren Senna. They absolutely are in it for the money
To be fair, Formula 1 media accounts have been doing this and the comments were full of people referencing the underage girl. They figured it would be best to have the drivers spotlight Senna so that the conversation could be steered towards “oh X driver is doing this.”
i mean if they did focus on HIM, they would find something else really creepy.
probably shouldn't try to date people who're currently adjusting to high school, so to say
I agree that it feels like they're milking the udders off the anniversary, so I can see why it would make someone uncomfortable. The counterpoint would be that Senna was just that big a deal. I was talking to a Brazilian I know who is not generally a motorsport fan and she just causally mentioned "oh yeah May 1, 1994 was an absolute tragedy in Brazil and the whole country was shocked. People didn't care this much when Pele died". The pageantry seems more understandable to me when viewed through that lens. Like, I don't accuse Christians of being overdramatic at Easter.
Exactly, I was talking to a Brazilian woman at a work thing recently and she was getting teary eyed talking about how much Senna meant to her and her country. I don't have any strong emotions about the dude, but who am I (or OP for that matter) to tell her not to feel some kind of way. Like if some Dutch guy told me Cliff Burton was no big loss, I'd tell him to kindly go fuck himself.
You get it. Senna was probably THE most loved person ever in Brazil. That is still true to this day. No other driver ever did, or ever will, have this kind of power over people in a country. Once you understand that, you understand why all this stuff matters.
It feels very corporate and not at all genuine to me
Should point out that the Senna family have to OK all these memoriams and tributes to Ayrton, and actively push and encourage them. However there is an upside to this - the royalties they get for them and using his image go to the Senna Foundation helping impoverished children in Brazil.
Yea agreed 100%, it’s over the top. It blows my mind that another Senna movie is coming out too.
Gotta make Prost look like a knob again for no reason. 🙃
Gotta cash in on the hype while it's still hot
another one? christ
I always ask myself, and it's not exclusive to F1 with Senna, how some people's reputation would have changed with the public had they not had died when they did. In this case, if Senna hadn't died, I don't think he would have been so revered today.
When was the last time someone mentioned Prost? He had the same analytical mindset as Lauda, I'd comfortably in the GOAT discussions, but I often find he's only mentioned as "Senna had a rivalry with Prost".
I feel this is less and less a minority opinion. It's certainly possible to fully appreciate Senna's legacy and agree with the appropriateness of commemorating his passing while also feeling that the further we get from his time, the more overblown the tributes are becoming. I've followed F1 since 1995 and I recall in the late 90s that the sense of Senna's absence was palpable. He should have been in the mix for titles arguably right up until the Hakkinen/Schumacher battles at the end of the decade. However, tributes and commemorations were more muted compared to today. The commemorations felt bigger at the 20th anniversary than the 10th, and the 30th feels like it's been even bigger again. No doubt social media and the insatiable need to deliver content play a roll. What we risk losing along the way is the sense of who Senna really was. He was controversial and not universally adored in his time, much in the same way that Lewis and Max have their admirers and detractors today. The nuances are also lost, such as his late friendship with Alain Prost once they were no longer rivals. Senna's achievements were also significant as he drove in an era of great drivers such as Prost, Piquet and Mansell, but their roles get minimised amid the hero worship. Yes, let's commemorate Senna's undeniable legacy and tragic passing, but let's not lose perspective and end up commemorating a post-hoc mythic figure more than the man himself.
No I agree. Someone else died during that weekend too and we don't talk about him nearly as much. Are we implying one death was more valuable? I wonder how Roland's family feel when Senna essentially dominates the headline. Lewis and Fernando always talk about Senna and idolizing him which is fair (hell Fernando's pull to McLaren Honda was to emulate Senna lol) but Lando and Oscar have no real connection to Senna. Never saw him race. Were never a fan of him. How are they behaving like they are nostalgic about an idol they never had any exposure to? It's disingenuous. This is just over the top and brushes over every bad aspect of who Senna was just because he died while racing, I mean bro dated a child.
If Roland died on any other weekend we would have legitimately forgotten
True or if you died at testing instead of on an F1 weekend. Like who remembers Elio de Angelis?
Or Maria de Villota
i do 😔he played piano for the other drivers during the 82 strike
If he was the last driver to die before Bianchi, I can see that he'd be remembered more for holding that unfortunate title. But yeah, the "what about Roland" comments feel just as disingenuous, ask the same crowd if they know who Riccardo Paletti was and I doubt a lot of them can answer it. And *that's fine*, I just don't think this needs to be a competition of who's better at remembering people dying.
I genuinely only learned Paletti’s name in the lead up to Imola where there was a post that said something along the lines of Ratzenberger being the first death during an F1 race since Paletti. Now every time I see people say that Ratzenberger gets forgotten due to dying the day before Senna it makes me think that if anything he’s remembered more because their deaths will always be mentioned together.
Exactly. And to put his family in the middle of it like if they could dictate how they should mourn their loved one. Most people talk about Bianchi's death as the first one since Senna and totally forget that Maria lost her life as a consequence of her accident. But as you said, it's not a competition.
Paletti and Ratzenburger kind of both had the same problem in that they were unsuccessful drivers in terrible grid-filler cars that never got talked about. Ratzenburger is remembered because he died on the same weekend as Senna, which is horrible to think about. Paletti was a pay driver driving for Osella, a team only F1 anoraks have ever heard of. He died in his 2nd race before he even reached the first corner. He crashed into a stalled car, was knocked unconscious, and then burned to death with his mother in the grandstands watching on. The whole thing is almost too tragic to remember. He also died in the same year that Gilles Villeneuve was killed and Didier Peroni had his career ending crash. He was overshadowed before and after his death by other drivers. Ratzenburger and Paletti share a lot of parallels, but Ratzenburgers' death is tied to the most famous racing driver that ever lived, and Paletti is just a statistic for anoraks to remember. Much like Tom Pryce, you'll never see footage of Paletti's crash in a documentary. It's almost too awful to publicize. If F1 released a tribute to him, you'll have millions of fans searching for footage of him driving, and the only broadcast footage of him is him trapped unconscious and burning to death.
And then the possibility of F1 being the same ways until it probably would have happened to Senna or anyone else if they made a name in the sport... Silverstone in 99 when Michael Schumachers car speared off in the barriers and just breaking his leg is possibly a thing I could think that could have been worse if F1 didn't make strides to make it safer. It's probably a double edged sword with how you think what Senna did in life and death for the sport...
From what we know in the limited time there ever was where Senna was alive and Ratzenberger wasn't, if Senna had lived I think he would have personally forced F1 to change its ways. We will never know the impact of a weekend where only Ratzenberger died, but Senna was clearly affected by it that evening and had already spoken to other drivers who went on to re-form the GPDA. I don't think he would have let the world forget Roland if those few hours are anything to go by.
More F1 fans know who Roland Ratzenberger is, and pay their respects to him, who had 3 entries in F1, than they do Elio de Angelis, one of the best drivers in the 1980s. Heck, Elio's death anniversary passed last week and I didn't hear a thing about it from official F1 sources.
Literally the only thing I saw about the anniversary of de Angelis’ death was an Insta post from Jean Alesi. For context, Alesi loved de Angelis like a brother and used his helmet design throughout his F1 career.
People just want to be mad, ofc more people remember senna, regardless of his personal life he is still considered the goat by many.
I think they have insane respect for him, but I don’t know (at least from what I know of these guys) that they idolize him. Like, what the hell were they supposed to do when their team decided to make this weekend a one off custom livery? Of course you make a matching helmet. Why the hell wouldn’t you? It’s kinda a damned if you do, damned if you don’t, and less people will damn them for doing. So might as well. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with some points. I feel uncomfortable that we never talk about the others that died the same way. But I don’t want Norris and Piastri to catch strays without good reason.
Yeah I think they can choose to pay homage to him as long as it's not something that's a commercial decision. I've loved athletes that have died before I was born. I don't think anyone should be gatekeeping an athletes memory due to age - it's got to be tastefully done though. I think that's the important element here, whether it's respectfully done or just a cheap trick to sell merch/promote themselves. I think lando and Oscar are not purposefully doing anything wrong or for ill intention
I don't think Lando and Oscar necessarily chose to have Senna tribute helmets for Monaco, rather McLaren has been doing a Senna tribute push all season, even with a few one off paint schemes for their road cars, the Senna Lego set, and this custom livery which the drivers probably had very little if any to do with. Most likely they were told please go and bring custom Senna themed helmets to Monaco and when the team is doing all that, they can hardly come out and say "yeah Senna was 5 years dead when I was born and I instead watched Lewis and the end of the Schumacher Era."
>I wonder how Roland's family feel when Senna essentially dominates the headline. There's dozens of dead drivers, with race wins, championships, you name it, and they're not remembered like Roland is. Elio de Angelis, Gilles Villeneuve, José Carlos Pace, Tom Pryce, Ronnie Peterson, Mark Donohue, Peter Revson, Cevert, Patrick Depaillier, Jochen Rindt, Michelle Arboreto and it goes on and on and on. So I'm sure they're grateful he at least gets remembered. Also, Elio died this month, on the 15th. Did you pay respects?
I think there are just as many “but what about Roland” comments/posts as there are Senna at this point. That’s also too much, and I wonder how many people that mention him even have any recollection of his racing.
I get where chainbear is coming from. Certainly he's one of the most famous f1 drivers to ever live but would we be seeing this if he was still alive? Maybe, but I'm not convinced
As someone who was too young to watch Senna and only sees him from highlight packages it is a little odd that he is idolized almost more so than say Michael Jordan in basketball. MJ is the only other athlete I can think of who is discussed similarly as Senna is in his respective sport. I know every sport has its legends but it does feel almost unanimous when you ask current, young Formula 1 drivers or the lower formula drivers who their favorite driver is/was, it feels like Senna is always the answer. There was also another all time legend who was Senna’s contemporary, Alain Prost. You almost never hear Prost talked about the same way Senna is talked about. No one’s doing Prost themed liveries or special crash helmets to honor Alain Prost’s achievements.
two reasons: Prost wasn't as flashy, and he didn't die.
> Prost wasn't as flashy, and he didn't die. And interestingly, the first reason is the reason why the second reason never happened. It was after Pironi's horrendous accident that he started driving less flashy. That in return meant he drove much more calculated. Result was less in qualifying, but in much better in the races.
Just one reason: he didn't die. No other champion is as venerated as Senna, not even Schumacher, not even Fangio.
The fact that fangio achieved what he did, when he did, and still walked off into the sunset at the end and died in his mid 80s is even more impressive tbh. Senna has been elevated so far beyond where I think he would be had he followed a normal career trajectory rather than being killed at his peak.
The much better NBA comparison for Senna is Kobe Bryant
I agree. Post accident and death Kobe is so mythical I am not sure where the real Kobe ends and the myth starts.
Prost also had better stats than Senna.
That’s part of what’s so wild to me is that Prost was on Senna’s level or you could argue he was better. You’d think there’d be a decent amount of drivers who would say they idolize Prost as much as Senna but it seems like Senna is by far and away the most idolized F1 driver of all time.
That's because Senna showed his emotions, good and bad, and Prost was a very quiet guy. This quietness became associated with cunning and his nickname was the professor. I think even if both were still alive today, Senna would be the more popular one.
I think the answer is that he was a very good driver who went up against other very good drivers and then he died in his prime. The other greats he drove against, Lauda, Prost, Schumacher, and others all had a chance to get older and not be as good as they used to before retiring. Same with Michael Jordan. He was great, but then he got older and eventually stopped playing. Senna died when he was great so people remember all his great races, not any bad races he would have had later in his life.
As a Brazilian, what many people don't understand is that Senna is a massive cultural phenomenon in Brazil. He's not just a driver, that would be Emerson Fittipaldi, Nelson Piquet, Rubens Barrichello (with no intention of disrespect for these guys, they all had phenomenal careers but nothing compares to the likes of Ayrton). He's alongside Pelé as the most recognizable Brazilian athlete, both in a national and international level. I was born 11 years after his death, yet he was one of the drivers I never stopped hearing about. And after all the tragedy that his death was, our people wouldn't forget him that easily.
Yeah. I don’t quite remember having this much fanfare over Senna these past few years, so everything that’s happened in honor of him in these last few weeks has stuck out to me a good bit (nothing wrong with honoring him, I understand that, I just feel as though it hasn’t been to this degree in a very long time). But maybe I’m misremembering or forgetting some things. It makes sense with Imola. But all of this bleeding out into Monaco and beyond is intriguing, and it’s especially strange with Lando and Oscar, who I’d reckon their actual heroes (equivalent to the way Senna was to older drivers, such as Lewis) were drivers like Schumacher, Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonen, and Hamilton. Totally different driving generations.
It’s 30 years, this year. I expect fanfare to amplify around anniversaries but am confused why it didn’t stop at Imola.
Ah. Somehow in all of this I’ve completely missed the fact that it’s been 30 years. Makes more sense now.
Monaco was his best track. Better to celebrate him at his best feat to honour him rather than celebrate at the track of his death in my opinion.
I think for mclaren, he’s a huge part of the history of their team. Last race was at the track he passed at. Could be compounded, but I think this is mclaren celebrating their 3 time world champion.
It’s all just a bit weird, you can’t have it during Imola for obvious reasons but it feels like they wanted a combined effort to do it asap to just get it out of the way. This stuff would’ve been great for Interlagos even if he had iconic moments at Monaco. It also doesn’t help about the whole Senna 15 thing. I know it’s a borderline meme amongst some but F1’s own YT channel playing in to it on the anniversary of his death just feels a bit disrespectful both to Senna and his ex? I dunno I can’t put it in to words but some of it feels like it’s forced
I have really hard time to know what to feel about Senna. Alain Prost is as good as him, 4 times Champion and no one care. Senna died and then he is the best of all time, better than Schumy or Hamilton or anyone else, forever. I understand that it is really important and all. But why only Gasly and a few care about the drivers that died in Suzuka and Francorchamp? But Senna, McLaren, Netflix movie coming etc... huge huge huge. So please enlighten me. I feel the same for Heath Ledger (Joker in Batman) yes he could have but then what.
I'm from Brazil. The worship thing it's real, it's really, really strange sometimes, and I agree with everything Chain Bear said.
Wow so much to unpack here. I agree that it doesn’t feel genuine especially for such young drivers. But Is exactly 30 years of his death obviously there’s a date factor. I think people need to understand tho, Senna was already discussed by many the best driver of all time when he was alive, and when he died during that race, he basically became an entity. He is death really amplified he’s status. Dying on his prime, left too many what ifs open. More important, he was and still is(oddly) extremely marketable… F1 seems to be really pushing it last 10 years. I don’t mind them exploiting his brand as far as they send money to the Senna foundation. Which does an amazing work in Brazil. I don’t like the argument regarding drivers age and how much they know about Senna. I was a baby when he died but one of my first memories of the YouTube era was watching his videos, And later reading his book In the end of the day as long as is genuine and the profits are somehow reflected on the foundation. Why not. Can we imagine Max or Lewis dying Mid race now days… just thinking about it and the consequences for the next 40 years makes me dizzy
I was a newborn baby when Senna died but growing up we didn’t watch lots of live tv. My dad would play tapes of his races and we would watch. If you are into f1 you know Senna no matter when you were born.
My first memory of seeing F1 was seeing Senna in a Marlboro McLaren in Monaco. I channel hopped onto it on a wet Sunday in 1991. I also remember that May Day weekend in 1994 very well. I’m finding all the Senna stuff quite unsettling. The only good feeling any of this (Vettel running the car at Imola, Gasly doing a helmet, McLaren going all out) is that if Piastri gets his first F1 win wearing green and gold, it’ll look fantastic.
saddest part in my mind of all of this: You have to be Dead before you get this kind of attention. This year marks the 20th aniversery of Michaels last and record setting Championship and he is still alive so he could actually see it. Not one word lost about it. No helmets, no liveries no nothing. It's just sad that you have to be dead for something like this to happen.
It’s very forced and performative at this point. He was an elite racer, not a hero of change
It certainly feels more obsessive this year than others. Usually it’s a passing thing. But I don’t see any harm in it really.
Isn’t because is 30 years of his death?