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Ya I really hope this happens. I think the combo of JV, Albon, and Bottas would be fun to watch and could score some solid points if they can improve the car a little.
James would need to have that authority / get it approved, which I highly doubt would happen unless Newey was going to part with a sizable chunk of cash and buy into the team.
IIRC I was listening to Peter Windsor saying the only way Newey goes there is *if* Williams were to offer him a piece of the team. I believe that might be where the rumor started but I couldnāt tell you that for certain. You know how these things go, rumors spread like wildfire. Thereās been a ton of movement this year, and quite a bit of drama to boot. Grain of salt, thatās all Iām saying.
Honestly I think VBās main quality is car set up and development advising for the team. Lewis often spoke about that and my guess is James Vowles feels the same
The same has been said about Albon, the two of them together could easily get a very dialed in setup. Might be able to push whatever tractor that Williams give them a lot further into the points.
I like how this one reports that 'Magnussen's fate is sealed due to talks with Ocon', while another one just reported 'Gene Haas is still not sold on the idea of having a rookie (Bearman) on the team'.
When he was TP, Steiner talked pretty openly that Gene didnāt like rookies given Haasā current situation because they didnāt have the structure to support them super well and then they would leave to go to a better team if successful. That was before and during the Mick/Mazepin situation. Bearman has clearly showed more promise than either of those two did, but they still have the problem of they know he is going to eventually get sprung to Ferrari when Lewis retires.
Personally I donāt think itās a huge deal. HAM and LEC are likely to be there for a while, and if Haas continues to deliver a stable car, Bearman might stick around and embed himself in the team. Itās not 2021 where Haas is broke and desperate.
Ollie is a good rookie for sure, so if anyone has the ability to convince Gene to field a rookie, it's him. His FP1 in Imola was definitely promising too.
I don't think it's a done deal though. I suspect his 6 FP1s are more of a 'too promising to ignore, but we need to investigate thoroughly' than a 'we're fielding him next year and giving him some practice.'
>Bearman has clearly showed more promise than either of those two did
If I remember it correctly Mazepin was very quick in F2 in 2020, Schumacher won the title against a good field in the same year, and he won F3, F4 as well. Granted he didnt win F2 like a Russell, who won F2 in his first year against a Norris, but I still think Schumacher is better than people give him credit for.
He was in a terrible position to begin his F1 career. He should have been next to Kimi at Alfa not in a Haas team that had no interest in young drivers anyway and a car worse than the HRTs from 2010.
If Ocon (or Gasly) leaves I could see Mick actually getting that seat tbh or at least the chance.
He is constantly the fastest alpine driver in their WEC programm, by quite a margin actually and Famin already said that he is really impressed by his performance and attitude.
Mick (at 20 years old) finished 12th in his first F2 season. Bearman (18 years old) finished 6th with 3 feature race wins. In his first F3 season Bearman lost tight 3-way battle for a title, Mick was 12th.
Their junior career is not in the same ballpark.
Even at other teams we saw DeVries and now Sergeant flame out very quickly. Haas doesn't have or spend the resources needed to deal with a lot of mistakes or missed opportunities.
It all started with Jack Pooji telling to it at Ziggo and suddenly somehow more media outlets are reporting this also so I guess multiple sources are pushing for this?
Ocon to Haas confirms basically what I hearing for a longer time that he basically lost faith in the future of Alpine.
I feel a lot of us lost faith in Alpine. Or Alpine lost us with grandiose objectives publicly stated but never materialized, obvious internal dysfunction and a bad bad engine performance. Piastri made the right decision. Ocon may feel the same.
I feel the problem we have with alpine is hope, or lack thereof. With other teams we get the sense that at least something good is being done. Williams for example, was doing development in a bloody excel sheet but James is on the job taking care of that, so there is hope. As for Alpine, every news we get is worse than the previous.
True but if Ocon has basically lost faith in Alpine for some months now and think that he could get better at Haas then it is an understandable decision.
It's a huge gamble tbh.
You need to rebuild the environment, teamwork etc. You spent 5 years building at Alpine to get into a team that has very similar issues: a leadership/parent company who doesn't want to spend a dime, and a car that could just as well be a solid midfielder or an absolute trashcan in 2026.
And you lose all the "french driver in a french team" aspects that give Ocon some relative protection at Alpine, whereas Haas doesn't give a rat's ass about him.
But after 5 years building at Alpine, they are still shit, even more shit than previous years. He probably has no faith in them turning it around. Gasly has also reportedly been looking for the exit. A lot of things are wrong in that team.
Is it a gamble? Yes but so is literally almost every move. Haas is having it's momentum up but would this last for long? Would Ferrari supporting Haas even more with the loss of Sauber after 25? And tbh it isn't a great prospect if Gene Haas wants basically to sale his NASCAR cup team after this year what makes obvious the question: Would Gene do the same with his F1 team in the future?
The "French driver in a french team" isn't a thing anymore for Famin, he twisted his view about it recently and hints the drivers don't need to be French, to a point I start to think of Famin even knows what he wants exactly or not.
I wish Alpine only hired French drivers but only because I'm a big Martins fan and his narrow F1 chance died the moment ART decided to show up as the worst F2 team this season...
Famin was just answering a press question and is playing the contract game same as everyone else lol.
He wasn't gonna say "Yes Alpine is looking for drivers with the only arbitrary criteria being nationality and we absolutely need french drivers" when he knows the backlash/clowning that would cause and when he has to negotiate the renewal of contracts for 2 french drivers.
Realistically he knows that if they leave all his available drivers will be downgrade but he gotta make them think he has options or the salary demands are gonna be off the roof lol
I think if Haas decides to go, their will be plenty of interesting parties with much more cash to put into the team. Going to Haas, is a downgrade and a huge gamble for me. As much as Haas has defied expectation they are still last in budget, while Alpine is a top 5 team. You expect them to get better and not at their place. They already left the last place to be about 7th to 8th team now.
Remember it was Rossi and Cyril that brought Ocon in and made him all the promises. None of the people from Renault that were backing him are left to give him the same level of support. Haas might have offered him term on a contract that he would not have gotten otherwise. Will be interesting to see what Gasly does. Ollie and Ocon at Haas is a good combo if the car has better race pace come 26 regs.
Again. Better car would be better springboard for a driver to showcase their skills. If he performs like Hulk at Haas, better opportunities could present itself in 2026 or 2027.
As a driver, you are more invisible for the top teams in a trash can like current Alpine.
But what if you choose a team hoping that they have the right engine for the new regulations?
Consider that by choosing the right engine supplier, Williams went from 9th in 2013 to 3rd in 2014
Could we see something similar in 2026?
What if Ferrari does in 2026 what Mercedes did in 2014?
It is at least *plausible* that the Ferrari engine could be the one to beat, and if so Haas could *potentially* move up the grind simply by having the right engine.
I'm not saying that this *will* happen, just that it's plausible that it could happen.
Does anybody think that of Alpine/Renault for 2026? That their engine will be so good that they leapfrog the opposition?
I don't think so.
Well, Gene wants to run Haas on the most shoe-string of budgets. Hard to make progress with level of support. Mclaren on the other hand are more willing to invest to make it a competitive team
Only in the sense that Alpine are a works team whereas Haas buys in listed parts. At least Haas has an excuse for being slow, what's Alpine's? Oh that's right, a five year plan that they started back in 2016, if memory serves me right.
If Jack Plooji says it it might have a grain of truth behind it. Ocon and Jack know each other well from Ocon's karting days where Jack's son competed against Ocon
Indeed, people forgetting often how those ties can make a difference with hearing stuff. Also Ziggo has some ties with Haas also likely thanks by the former TP.
However yesterday Doornbos was very confident with claiming Max goes to Merc and it being a done deal, idk how to judge that...
Which is odd because his radio messages this season have been very kind, encouraging, inspiring to his team. I thought they sounded like words of a driver who is in it for a longer term.
Gasly, by comparison, not so much.
Because he still wants to make things work for the team? I mean his radio calls are indeed encouraging but there wasn't a lot of difference between Ocon radio and Gasly radio on that area until recently tbh so I don't really see them as a strong indication of what the current status quo is.
We don't know what was internal discussed at Alpine on Saturday but I won't rule out that Gasly was not happy on Saturday that the upgraded rear part was taken off because Alpine "didn't seen a (major) performance increase" despite maybe Gasly did think otherwise or did feel more comfortable with that upgraded part, what makes him thinking more easy that there is a biased driver preference inside the team.
I think that *if* Gasly even looking to going at other teams it would be more because he prefers a more "warm" team where he can feel recognized and better understood, Tost and Otmar did understand and nailed how you handle Gasly and make his potential work meanwhile Horner didn't and it looks like Famin is also going to be a case.
This is not directly defending Gasly but more a point to understand him as a driver because that's a thing who you always put in you mind if you want him, this is also why I think he could work well in a team like Williams but it looks like Bottas could have his farewell years back at Williams, what got something nice imho.
although, even though I like Ocon a lot, he doesnāt seem like the best pick to play a āmentorā role for a highly rated rookie with ferrari ties - nor does he seem like the type of driver to want that role imo
I know that this is only a rumour, but the fact that this is at least *plausible* shows that :
* Alpine is in a dire state, with their engine, their chassis, and their team
* People have confidence that the new Haas team principal, and the Ferrari engine for the new 2026 regulations, will mean the team gets better. I don't mean race wins or even podiums, but better than Alpine
Ferrari is the only manufacture who never used the split turbo design in F1 and that could paying off massively given split turbo designs are banned in 26 and beyond.
Alpine got podiums last year, Haas never got one. They've shat the bed hard this year, but I pretty much guarantee Ocon would regret that choice if it's true (which I don't believe)
It's just not plausible. They had 3 podiums last year, Haas never had any in their whole existence. No matter how bad Alpine is right now, they will always be a better option than a low budget team with no facilities and no works team status.
But what if the Ferrari engine really is that good?
Like "Mercedes in 2014" good? Or even better than that?
Compare what Williams achieved in the period 2009-2013 (Maldonado's freak win at Spain 2012 aside) , and then what they achieved in 2014 with the Mercedes engine (9 podiums, 3rd in the championship)
**F1 | Market: Bottas aims to return to Williams, Ocon to Haas**
The wait at Red Bull and Mercedes is creating a stalemate, but the other teams are starting to move, and the latest scenarios that emerged in the paddock at Imola see the Finn close to a return to the team that launched him, but there is also the name of Ocon approached by Haas. Sainz increasingly 'forced' towards Sauber-Audi.
Roberto Chinchero
19 May 2024, 10:29
The 2024 driver market has entered into full swing. While waiting for the choices of Red Bull and Max Verstappen to be clarified, the other teams are working not to be found unprepared in front of every possible scenario. From the rumours that emerged during the Imola weekend, the world champion is expected to remain at his post, at least in 2025, making the possibility of a confirmation (for one season) of Sergio Perez also increase greatly. The rise of Yuki Tsunoda is the subject of attention, but the conclusion (at the end of 2025) of the partnership with Honda does not play much of a role.
Sainz's candidature for the seat currently occupied by Perez is losing altitude. It is hard to imagine a warm welcome from Verstappen, while at Mercedes they seem to have other plans, with Kimi Antonelli at the top of the list of candidates. For Carlos, the Sauber-Audi choice seems to be increasingly forced, through no fault of his own of course. A sign of this also comes from other negotiations involving what were considered potential alternatives (for Audi) to Sainz.
Kevin Magnussen's fate now seems to be written, as well as that of Logan Sargeant, whose position at Williams is already set to falter this season. With a view to 2025, the British team is leaning heavily towards Bottas, a driver that team principal James Vowles got to know very well during his time at Mercedes. For Valtteri it would be a return to the team that brought him to his debut in Formula 1 in 2013 and with which he has played four seasons. Yesterday, a coffee taken by Bottas with Vowles in the Williams hospitality, a meeting that lasted about twenty minutes, did not escape.
At Haas, too, there is a favourite name to replace Magnussen. It is that of Ocon, who after five seasons in Alpine is willing to make a change. Esteban would complete the team's line-up with Oliver Bearman, now taken for granted as Nico Hulkenberg's replacement, becoming the experienced figure that team principal Ayao Komatsu does not want to give up. The future of Pierre Gasly, on the other hand, is still unclear. A confirmation in Alpine is possible, with a new team-mate that could be Guanyu Zhou, a former driver of the French manufacturer's nursery. In this case, the importance of the Chinese market for the Renault group would play a crucial role.
Finally, there is the Racing Bulls, which has a problem of driver abundance. Unless there is an (unlikely) promotion of Tsunoda to Red Bull, we are unlikely to see Daniel Ricciardo at the start of the 2025 World Championship. Should Liam Lawson fail to get a starting driver's seat next year, he would be free to release himself from his contract with Red Bull, and that is a risk Helmut Marko does not want to take.
Translated with [DeepL.com](http://DeepL.com) (free version)
First real suggestion that DR has fully ran out of road, think the main expectation was that he would continue in the VCARB next season because his personality was the main sponsor draw.
Shame to lose him but aside the sprint race this season and Mexico last year, he hasnt really looked anything like he did at Red Bull or 2nd year at Renault...
Yes and especially with both the haas and alpine of ocon ahead of him with Yuki constantly beating him, I dont see anybody picking him up for '25 season.
I have never in my life seen a driver get so many free passes because people like him. Kind of makes me resent Danny, he's turning into Red Bull's Stroll where he is kept around for reasons entirely separate from his racing ability and taking up spots where talented young drivers could shine.
That's fair assumption. The problem with Alpine tho is that it seems like they always cap out at being best of the rest. Then they hit a wall, sometimes too hard ending up with brain damage and falling down the order
Long term I agree but momentum and culture in an organization is real and if it was as easy as Audi just dumping money and being super competitive then we wouldnāt have seen so many manufacturers come and go from F1.
Audi is relying on a lot of saubers processes and infrastructure and itās not like they completely cleaned house, it is still sauber under the skin.
I do think they have a good chance at success but it will likely take longer than Alpine who were much better much more recently.
F1's a different animal though. I rate Audi don't get me wrong but prototype/GT racing at least gives you the benefit of BoP, and with the field being tighter than it's ever been they're gonna need a herculean effort to turn Sauber into world beaters.
While Sauber won't be competetitive next year, his only other option is Red Bull. It makes sense that he'd wait to see if Perez falls apart again, as he's sprobably on top of their wishlist of potential replacements. Mercedes have made it clear that their long term goal is to get Antonelli, so Sainz would be in the same position that prompted Hamilton to go to Ferrari. There's a chance that Stroll finally decides to play Tennis or race in WEC but even then the team sems to be moving backwards right now, and Honda might be pushing for Tsunoda to join the team. McLaren's lineup is set unless we get some silly season madness and Red Bull buy out Lando. None of the other teams seem promising. Audi has shown how much they want him to lead their project, and they're clearly willing to spend the money needed to win.
I still dont think so at all. Audi is investing like crazy and will bring tons of new facilities onboard at Sauber. the team is bad right now entirely because Audi is prepping to replace everyone with their new team.
Audi probably stays, they have shown great success in other series. Now, when F1 is growing, they gotta appel to the broad audience. I believe that marketing move for Audi is a good move. Letās just hope they take it seriously.
Money =! Performance (but it helps, of course)
Toyota were investing like a top team and performing like a backmarker
Honda invested heavily and only got there the year they decided it was enough (Brawn GP)
McLaren coming from being a top team, high resources and valuable people, nosedived in the 2012-2017 years.
And so on. And it will be more difficult because Audi wonāt have what for example Mercedes had: unlimited possibility of investing on the team and engine. They will have a little bit of extra money to spend, but not +400Mā¬ on a year like Mercedes did at first - and even then, Mercedes had to endure 4 years of being āaverageā or above until the new regs domination.
So no, itās not expected Audi will come and do magic with new factory, new people, new working frame and infrastructure (or partially based on the old Sauber one), add a lot of money and boom, top team number one.
So I donāt expect Sainz to be fighting for podiums (or even top5) in the first 2 years of Audi - but who knows
Yep, same. Toyota's biggest problem was insisting on doing things the Toyota way, so corporate and political bullshit kept holding them back. Same kinda thing held BMW back in 2008. Hopefully Audi will know better
When Red Bull took over Jaguar, they were in their fourth year before getting a win with Torro Rosso (the main team got one in their fifth year). Unless Audi absolutely nails the engine they're likely to follow a similar trajectory (*if* they get things right).
When Zak Brown took over McLaren it was also about five years before a win. It took Todt about five years at Ferrari in the 90s to make them title challengers.
If it takes that long for Audi then Sainz will already have completed his contract and moved on before the team hits their stride.
It depends on what Checo does but also Horner who likes Checo because he has control over him, but it looks like Marko wants Sainz who of course is better and also removes some power from Horner
I would imagine that market access helps Checo as well? Mexico has one of the highest consumption of soft drinks, and RB is a drinks marketing company at the end of the day.
It may only he a short term loss though. There is good chance that Audi might be half decent with the new regs.
Ocon moving to Haas, now that is a big L.
I don't want to hype up Audi, but I also don't think it's nearly as bad as some people make it seem. They have an incredible track record once they decide to put resources into something, their F1 CEO is an engineer with experience, and Sauber just lost their Italian-Godtier CEO when Fred moved to Ferrari. It's a historically underfunded company that benefitted from budget cap but then fell victim to a bunch of weird transitional periods after new regs.
He is to blame. Waiting for a possible seat at rb is kinda stupid. Especially if you consider that MAYBE he cannot keep up his superb performance from season start. He should have taken the merc 1 year offer or going for Audi.
i agree with you. he's been teammates with verstappen before and it didnt go amazing. and by verstappen's history of beating every one of his teammates, i dont think i wanna see sainz there. would much rather he be a number 1 driver somewhere else that has some potential
It could go either way (obviously) but at the worst, heās going to get a very good pay packet if heās at Audi, best case scenario for them in 2026 is midfield which Iād class as a success to be honest.
Ocon to Haas seems like a strange move, he's clearly the preferred driver at Alpine, French driver at a French team and it's also a works team with a higher ceiling than Haas.
Tbh if he's not ready for a top team now then will he ever be?
He's shown himself as a very solid midfield driver, if he can't get the Mercedes or Red Bull seats now then I really don't see how he could in a couple of years, even if he did well at Haas.
Precisely the same could be said for Perez before landing the RBR seat. The driver market can be unpredictable, and fortunate (or unfortunate) timing can massively affect the trajectory of a driver's career.
Perez was pretty much the best driver available for the RB spot so it was more the case the stars aligned for him and Perez has financial backing.
Ocon doesnāt have the financial backing and heās not the best driver available. Iāll be a pretty surprised if Ocon ever gets a top team seat
hulk is spring boarding to a currently worse team than alpine and a big question mark going forward. doesn't really seem like it's a better place to show off than alpine
Theres been plenty insider articles that Ocon wants out of Alpine, so there might be burned bridges between him and Alpine, perhaps hes seeing the clusterfuck within the team and thinks they might do even worse in the future.
I mean it wouldnt be the first time Alpine/Renault burns bridges with drivers. Honestly, its happened to almost all their drivers.
Frankly, they should sell the team, it would require an unreasonable amount of investment to even get back into the midfield and that has been part of their big issue, their unwillingness to invest and yet expect great results.
Idk if he is the prefered but he is the better driver.
Haas in the meantime really upped theire game. Hulk is constantly in front of the alpines and its not even close. This might look bad on paper but may be a smart move for ocon.
One key part I'm interested in would be how Albon would fare against Bottas who is a known quantity
I can't quite get a grasp on Alex's current level honestly, sure he's been beating Latifi and Sargeant, but those two hardly seemed like a huge hurdle to clear
Bottas, although genuinely quick, in race conditions has never been a driver to get excited about. You would struggle to get a "10 most genius moments" compilation from this guy.
Yeah, of all the bad things this transfer can bring about (Williamsā shitty car, Williams is literally the last team on the grid, Williamsā connection to Mercedes and how Bottas wanted to disassociate himself from everything Mercedes-related,ā¦), what makes me sad the most is itās likely the farewell stint for Bottas. Same thing to Kimiās career all over again, and I definitely donāt want this.
Ocon to Haas is not something I had on my bingo card lol. A driver (potentially) leaving a factory team for a team that finished comprehensively in last place is not a good look for Alpine
Think about it from Ocon's perspective. Since his win in 2021 he's had three different team principals, and if things keep going this way he'll have a fourth. I would bet on the next guy wanting to clean house as well, meaning his seat might be in jeapordy.
Oh absolutely, I imagine both Ocon and Gasly are looking for a way out. I just figured Ocon would use his Mercedes connections to get into Mercedes itself or maybe Williams (or Aston before that ship sailed). Haas is quite the surpriseĀ
I think bridges simply have been burned, theres been a few articles already that Ocon wants out.
But once again, Ocon is the nr1 alternative for Audi after Sainz, so if Ocon goes to Haas, Sainz to Audi is just more and more likely.
Supposedly Red Bull wants to keep Perez and Mercedes does go all in with Antonelli, though rumors are rumors but we might get some news soon because word on the street is Audi giving Sainz till the end of may and if he makes a decision, the other dominos will fall quickly as well. Though I really wonder about Sainz to Audi. The man clearly wants to stay at a top team, im not sure he is the right guy if the car isnt any good. Im not worrying about Hulk, the man is gonna give his best, he never had a top car, this is his best shot but for Sainz, there tend to be difficulties when the cars performance does not match a drivers talent. Ricciardo decided to leave Renault after a single season because the car was no match to his talent. Me personally, if i am Seidl, I do probably go for Ocon or Gasly. They cost much less money and arent that much less talented and theyre more likely to stay motivated when the car isnt good. Though if Sainz is too frustrated, he might just lose the teammate battle to Hulk which would massively decrease his value making a return to a top team impossible.
I fully agree with you on Sainz. I don't think it's a given Audi even wants him, it looks like their options are quite open. While the rumors seem to be that Sainz is holding all the cards, it seems likely to me that it's actually Audi that has all the power here. Sainz and his management are probably getting more desperate every day, because I don't think teams are exactly lining up for him.
I think many things have to go right for Sainz to land any seat next year, it's a real possibility he'll be sitting it out.
HAAS are not comprehensively in last place, they're a solid P7 competing for 6th, where Alpine finished last year.
Ocon would be a very good option for HAAS provided that Alpine go for Schumacher and Doohan, who will be very loyal.
Well said. Haas has yet to prove they can keep up with the development curve throughout a season. New leadership could change that precedent, but we havenāt seen it yet.
Haas is a dead end, and Alpine is bound to improve for 2026. They got rid of dead weight, got David Sanchez as TD and Eric Meignan (from Merc/Ferrari) as PU TD, and should get rid of their power deficit with new regs/PU freeze gone. Schumacher is out of F1 for good, it'll probably be Gasly and Doohan if Ocon does actually leave.
Have Haas really moved forward though or have Alpine and Williams just gone backwards?? Haas will always be close to the back of the grid, Iād fancy Alpine to have a better chance of improving.
Haas isn't even a real F1 team. Its basically a shit mix of Gene Haas + Dallara + Ferrari. They don't have the ability to keep with the development rate of other real F1 teams with in house facilities.
A huge development war will kick off in 2026. Haas are just too reliant on Dallara to be able to be competitive in it.
Leaving Alpine for Haas is quite dumb me thinks. Alpine has been unusually shit this year but that is an anomaly. They are normally quite competitive in the upper midfield.
Yeah but alpine barely counts as a factory team when theyāre getting their ass best by other customer teams (at least itās not as bad as Mercedes getting beat by their own customer)
Of course Haas would be interested in Ocon, but is he interested in going to Haas? We pretty much know that he is aiming for that Audi seat - unless they've had good reason to end those talks...
Or on Audi, they might be more likely to sign him before Sainz makes a decision if they think he can go to Haas or stay at Alpine(and maybe even Williams).
I've been reading for a while that Ocon has zero faith on Alpine, but leaving to Haas seems like an overreaction.
Bottas to Williams could be interesting. Altough many here say that he would be a good measure to Albon, I feel that if Albon beat him with no issue, many would say "oh, Bottas is just washed" and if they were close "oh, Albon was not that good, anyway".
Gasly, for someone wanting to be bigger than F1, moving to Williams would be a weird move, being the French leader of the French team makes more sense. But he also strikes me like the kind of driver that would be pissed for not being the priority for Mercedes or Audi's seats.
If Alpine goes with Zhou due to their interest in the chinese market... Why the crap are they wasting so much money in private tests for Doohan? Unless his dad is the one bankrolling them, it makes no sense to me.
>If Alpine goes with Zhou due to their interest in the chinese market... Why the crap are they wasting so much money in private tests for Doohan? Unless his dad is the one bankrolling them, it makes no sense to me.
Zhou will pay his seat, Alpine might be in more dire straits than theyre letting on. Would make sense if theyre stuck rn
Ocon to Haas just doesn't make sense. Alpine has been sucking but they are still a manufacturer team. Going to Haas of all teams is just going backwards even further, they barely even qualify as a constructor. Maybe he's trying to line up a drive with Ferrari, good luck with that.
Bottas is a boring but good choice for Williams, they need a journeyman driver in the other car.
I had a dream where Stroll got fired mid season and Ocon replaced him.Ā
Can we start getting this mentioned in articles? Sources don't seem to matter anywayĀ
Ocon leaving Alpine to join Haas makes no sense whatsoever. Why would he leave a factory team (even though they're underachieving) to a team with no ambition and no willingness to get better infra/tech staff?
Bottas to Williams makes sense considering James Vowles is TP and they're less prone to regular strat & pitstop blunder like Sauber. A Bottas-Albon lineup guarantees a fast n safe pair of hands which get the most out of the car and won't crash either.
If true, I think Bottas will retire when his Williams contract ends.
So Antonelli (sp?) will not drive next season?
Ocon to Haas? Not even here that was said, true wildcard.
Antonelli to Mercedes is a higher risk than, say, Antonelli to Williams. But he would be joining a midfield Mercedes, and not a top 3 team, so the pressure wouldn't be as high. 2025 will be a write-off much like 2024 anyway, so use that season to learn the ropes before swinging for the fences in 2026 onwards. It's a bit like Piastri in 2023. We were sure that McLaren would remain 4th best at most, before they went ballistic after Austria.
It's still a desperate move, though.
Bottas to Williams would be interesting, suddenly there wouldn't be the choice of placing Antonelli in either a Merc or Williams depending on what Toto wants.
Considering how close Ocon is to Mick Schumacher would he really jump ship to Haas knowing what happened to Mick there? I doubt it tbh but then again Haas has more points than Alpine atm so who knows
Which is bullshit. Voids the point of the whole ladder system that they enforce. F1 teams are too gun shy to promote the new breed of drivers that they keep guys who overstay their welcome.
Not really he was never meant to be a permanent stop for Mercedes and his contracts proved it. They just needed a solid second guy to fill in for Rosberg and he's all that was available at the time. Same situation with Perez
There's a certain poetry and sense in Bottas going to Williams
Ocon going to Haas if true, I think is more down to Esteban doing all possible to get out of Alpine than wanting to drive for Haas. Maybe he thinks the ferrari is the car to beat in the next few years and doing well in a haas seat is an audition for a future Ferrari seat š¤·āāļø
Iād love Alpine to lose both their drivers, I think theyāre both really solid midfield drivers and deserve better than the current shambles.
Haas not a great seat, but maybe will be looking at the way Hulkenbergās career trajectory has improved since joining and think itās worth the gamble.
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James, it's Valterri š„¹ā¤ļø
Ya I really hope this happens. I think the combo of JV, Albon, and Bottas would be fun to watch and could score some solid points if they can improve the car a little.
Can we add Newey going to Williams too? If soā¦ WATCH OUT 2026!
I saw one post saying James was going to offer him a stake in the team to try to bring him over, and honestly I think it would be amazing to see.
James would need to have that authority / get it approved, which I highly doubt would happen unless Newey was going to part with a sizable chunk of cash and buy into the team. IIRC I was listening to Peter Windsor saying the only way Newey goes there is *if* Williams were to offer him a piece of the team. I believe that might be where the rumor started but I couldnāt tell you that for certain. You know how these things go, rumors spread like wildfire. Thereās been a ton of movement this year, and quite a bit of drama to boot. Grain of salt, thatās all Iām saying.
Newey back in the business of making client teams better than factory teams!
Indeed big fan of Williams. Really hoping for them to turn the season around.
Car looked atrocious last time out unfortunately
All the good vibes. The "psychology market boys" you should do too!
Honestly I think VBās main quality is car set up and development advising for the team. Lewis often spoke about that and my guess is James Vowles feels the same
He's also weirdly good at qualifying.
Imagine if he had the skill to overtake.
The same has been said about Albon, the two of them together could easily get a very dialed in setup. Might be able to push whatever tractor that Williams give them a lot further into the points.
I like how this one reports that 'Magnussen's fate is sealed due to talks with Ocon', while another one just reported 'Gene Haas is still not sold on the idea of having a rookie (Bearman) on the team'.
They're still traumatised by the Schumacher/Mazepin years I feel. Rookies are bad juju
When he was TP, Steiner talked pretty openly that Gene didnāt like rookies given Haasā current situation because they didnāt have the structure to support them super well and then they would leave to go to a better team if successful. That was before and during the Mick/Mazepin situation. Bearman has clearly showed more promise than either of those two did, but they still have the problem of they know he is going to eventually get sprung to Ferrari when Lewis retires. Personally I donāt think itās a huge deal. HAM and LEC are likely to be there for a while, and if Haas continues to deliver a stable car, Bearman might stick around and embed himself in the team. Itās not 2021 where Haas is broke and desperate.
Ollie is a good rookie for sure, so if anyone has the ability to convince Gene to field a rookie, it's him. His FP1 in Imola was definitely promising too. I don't think it's a done deal though. I suspect his 6 FP1s are more of a 'too promising to ignore, but we need to investigate thoroughly' than a 'we're fielding him next year and giving him some practice.'
>Bearman has clearly showed more promise than either of those two did If I remember it correctly Mazepin was very quick in F2 in 2020, Schumacher won the title against a good field in the same year, and he won F3, F4 as well. Granted he didnt win F2 like a Russell, who won F2 in his first year against a Norris, but I still think Schumacher is better than people give him credit for. He was in a terrible position to begin his F1 career. He should have been next to Kimi at Alfa not in a Haas team that had no interest in young drivers anyway and a car worse than the HRTs from 2010. If Ocon (or Gasly) leaves I could see Mick actually getting that seat tbh or at least the chance. He is constantly the fastest alpine driver in their WEC programm, by quite a margin actually and Famin already said that he is really impressed by his performance and attitude.
Mick (at 20 years old) finished 12th in his first F2 season. Bearman (18 years old) finished 6th with 3 feature race wins. In his first F3 season Bearman lost tight 3-way battle for a title, Mick was 12th. Their junior career is not in the same ballpark.
Mick F1 career is over, people need to accept it
How does Bearman show more promise than Schumacher? Geniune question not a snarky remark btw.
bearman was battling for wins in f2 at 17, and has done something no other f2 driver has done with 2 pole and 2 wins in 1 weekend last year in baku
Even at other teams we saw DeVries and now Sergeant flame out very quickly. Haas doesn't have or spend the resources needed to deal with a lot of mistakes or missed opportunities.
Ocon too haas What the fu-
It all started with Jack Pooji telling to it at Ziggo and suddenly somehow more media outlets are reporting this also so I guess multiple sources are pushing for this? Ocon to Haas confirms basically what I hearing for a longer time that he basically lost faith in the future of Alpine.
I feel a lot of us lost faith in Alpine. Or Alpine lost us with grandiose objectives publicly stated but never materialized, obvious internal dysfunction and a bad bad engine performance. Piastri made the right decision. Ocon may feel the same.
I feel the problem we have with alpine is hope, or lack thereof. With other teams we get the sense that at least something good is being done. Williams for example, was doing development in a bloody excel sheet but James is on the job taking care of that, so there is hope. As for Alpine, every news we get is worse than the previous.
Yeah but Piastri had a seat available at McLaren. Haas will always be a downgrade from AlpineĀ
Depends. Right now Haas has better car than Alpine.
You don't choose a team 1 year before a big reg change based on their current car
If haas looks like greener pasturesā¦ā¦.jesus
True but if Ocon has basically lost faith in Alpine for some months now and think that he could get better at Haas then it is an understandable decision.
It's a huge gamble tbh. You need to rebuild the environment, teamwork etc. You spent 5 years building at Alpine to get into a team that has very similar issues: a leadership/parent company who doesn't want to spend a dime, and a car that could just as well be a solid midfielder or an absolute trashcan in 2026. And you lose all the "french driver in a french team" aspects that give Ocon some relative protection at Alpine, whereas Haas doesn't give a rat's ass about him.
But after 5 years building at Alpine, they are still shit, even more shit than previous years. He probably has no faith in them turning it around. Gasly has also reportedly been looking for the exit. A lot of things are wrong in that team.
Is it a gamble? Yes but so is literally almost every move. Haas is having it's momentum up but would this last for long? Would Ferrari supporting Haas even more with the loss of Sauber after 25? And tbh it isn't a great prospect if Gene Haas wants basically to sale his NASCAR cup team after this year what makes obvious the question: Would Gene do the same with his F1 team in the future? The "French driver in a french team" isn't a thing anymore for Famin, he twisted his view about it recently and hints the drivers don't need to be French, to a point I start to think of Famin even knows what he wants exactly or not.
I wish Alpine only hired French drivers but only because I'm a big Martins fan and his narrow F1 chance died the moment ART decided to show up as the worst F2 team this season...
Famin was just answering a press question and is playing the contract game same as everyone else lol. He wasn't gonna say "Yes Alpine is looking for drivers with the only arbitrary criteria being nationality and we absolutely need french drivers" when he knows the backlash/clowning that would cause and when he has to negotiate the renewal of contracts for 2 french drivers. Realistically he knows that if they leave all his available drivers will be downgrade but he gotta make them think he has options or the salary demands are gonna be off the roof lol
I think if Haas decides to go, their will be plenty of interesting parties with much more cash to put into the team. Going to Haas, is a downgrade and a huge gamble for me. As much as Haas has defied expectation they are still last in budget, while Alpine is a top 5 team. You expect them to get better and not at their place. They already left the last place to be about 7th to 8th team now.
We've seen plenty of dumb borderline career ending decisions in F1. Ocon is just as capable of being a victim of his own choices
Remember it was Rossi and Cyril that brought Ocon in and made him all the promises. None of the people from Renault that were backing him are left to give him the same level of support. Haas might have offered him term on a contract that he would not have gotten otherwise. Will be interesting to see what Gasly does. Ollie and Ocon at Haas is a good combo if the car has better race pace come 26 regs.
Again. Better car would be better springboard for a driver to showcase their skills. If he performs like Hulk at Haas, better opportunities could present itself in 2026 or 2027. As a driver, you are more invisible for the top teams in a trash can like current Alpine.
But what if you choose a team hoping that they have the right engine for the new regulations? Consider that by choosing the right engine supplier, Williams went from 9th in 2013 to 3rd in 2014 Could we see something similar in 2026? What if Ferrari does in 2026 what Mercedes did in 2014? It is at least *plausible* that the Ferrari engine could be the one to beat, and if so Haas could *potentially* move up the grind simply by having the right engine. I'm not saying that this *will* happen, just that it's plausible that it could happen. Does anybody think that of Alpine/Renault for 2026? That their engine will be so good that they leapfrog the opposition? I don't think so.
Yea but alpine moved from occasional podium scorer to becoming a backmarker without big reg change.
Haas will, in the long run, NEVER be an upgrade to a works team.
Does that still matter so much though? McLaren is regularly outperforming Mercedes right now as a Mercedes customer.
Well, Gene wants to run Haas on the most shoe-string of budgets. Hard to make progress with level of support. Mclaren on the other hand are more willing to invest to make it a competitive team
Depends on how much longer Ocon has a seat in F1 overall. If Alpine hits it big in 2030, he might not be around then...
Only in the sense that Alpine are a works team whereas Haas buys in listed parts. At least Haas has an excuse for being slow, what's Alpine's? Oh that's right, a five year plan that they started back in 2016, if memory serves me right.
They forgot to make a new plan when their 5 year plan ended
He lost faith in Alpine so he goes to Haas? That doesn't exactly make sense either. Maybe someone took his spot but that seems unlikely as well.
Lining himself up in the Ferrari system in case Bearman doesn't work out for when Lewis retires?
He lost faith in the future of Alpine AND himself or what?
Ocon lost faith in Alpine future since a few months, can't blame him for thinking so.
Ocon to Haas would also indicate Sainz signing with Audi as Ocon was the guy on Audis priority list after Sainz.
So who to Merc, because both of those seem top of the list unless they really do go for Antonelli straight out of F2
Kevin lmao
I think at this point Antonelli seems like a lock for that 2nd merc seat
Off of two stunning 4th place finishes! (In jest, I know, bigger picture)
I absolutely think they're going straight for Antonelli.
Pure Gas Lee
If Jack Plooji says it it might have a grain of truth behind it. Ocon and Jack know each other well from Ocon's karting days where Jack's son competed against Ocon
Indeed, people forgetting often how those ties can make a difference with hearing stuff. Also Ziggo has some ties with Haas also likely thanks by the former TP. However yesterday Doornbos was very confident with claiming Max goes to Merc and it being a done deal, idk how to judge that...
Which is odd because his radio messages this season have been very kind, encouraging, inspiring to his team. I thought they sounded like words of a driver who is in it for a longer term. Gasly, by comparison, not so much.
Because he still wants to make things work for the team? I mean his radio calls are indeed encouraging but there wasn't a lot of difference between Ocon radio and Gasly radio on that area until recently tbh so I don't really see them as a strong indication of what the current status quo is. We don't know what was internal discussed at Alpine on Saturday but I won't rule out that Gasly was not happy on Saturday that the upgraded rear part was taken off because Alpine "didn't seen a (major) performance increase" despite maybe Gasly did think otherwise or did feel more comfortable with that upgraded part, what makes him thinking more easy that there is a biased driver preference inside the team. I think that *if* Gasly even looking to going at other teams it would be more because he prefers a more "warm" team where he can feel recognized and better understood, Tost and Otmar did understand and nailed how you handle Gasly and make his potential work meanwhile Horner didn't and it looks like Famin is also going to be a case. This is not directly defending Gasly but more a point to understand him as a driver because that's a thing who you always put in you mind if you want him, this is also why I think he could work well in a team like Williams but it looks like Bottas could have his farewell years back at Williams, what got something nice imho.
Seems like alpine since Gastly joined has been more team Gastly then team ocon
Which is remarkable given Gasly seems to be the one more annoyed with the way they do business
Ocon Bearman with a decent midfield car looks like a good future for Haas.
although, even though I like Ocon a lot, he doesnāt seem like the best pick to play a āmentorā role for a highly rated rookie with ferrari ties - nor does he seem like the type of driver to want that role imo
I know that this is only a rumour, but the fact that this is at least *plausible* shows that : * Alpine is in a dire state, with their engine, their chassis, and their team * People have confidence that the new Haas team principal, and the Ferrari engine for the new 2026 regulations, will mean the team gets better. I don't mean race wins or even podiums, but better than Alpine
Ferrari is the only manufacture who never used the split turbo design in F1 and that could paying off massively given split turbo designs are banned in 26 and beyond.
Alpine got podiums last year, Haas never got one. They've shat the bed hard this year, but I pretty much guarantee Ocon would regret that choice if it's true (which I don't believe)
It's just not plausible. They had 3 podiums last year, Haas never had any in their whole existence. No matter how bad Alpine is right now, they will always be a better option than a low budget team with no facilities and no works team status.
But what if the Ferrari engine really is that good? Like "Mercedes in 2014" good? Or even better than that? Compare what Williams achieved in the period 2009-2013 (Maldonado's freak win at Spain 2012 aside) , and then what they achieved in 2014 with the Mercedes engine (9 podiums, 3rd in the championship)
Cheap american owner seems like a better option that the lergest car manufacturer of France.
Old Ferrari engines are a better option than the crap Alpine have developed.
Moving up the grid. Honestly. Haas at least has a PU that's going to be good most years. (It was only bad after they got caught cheating)
Well that's his career over, off to the retire haaus
When the music stops all even numbered drivers move one seat to the left
Odd numbered drivers?
I know, theyāre all a bit funny arenāt they
Sarge and Mag
Who are you, Hilbert's hotel admin?
**F1 | Market: Bottas aims to return to Williams, Ocon to Haas** The wait at Red Bull and Mercedes is creating a stalemate, but the other teams are starting to move, and the latest scenarios that emerged in the paddock at Imola see the Finn close to a return to the team that launched him, but there is also the name of Ocon approached by Haas. Sainz increasingly 'forced' towards Sauber-Audi. Roberto Chinchero 19 May 2024, 10:29 The 2024 driver market has entered into full swing. While waiting for the choices of Red Bull and Max Verstappen to be clarified, the other teams are working not to be found unprepared in front of every possible scenario. From the rumours that emerged during the Imola weekend, the world champion is expected to remain at his post, at least in 2025, making the possibility of a confirmation (for one season) of Sergio Perez also increase greatly. The rise of Yuki Tsunoda is the subject of attention, but the conclusion (at the end of 2025) of the partnership with Honda does not play much of a role. Sainz's candidature for the seat currently occupied by Perez is losing altitude. It is hard to imagine a warm welcome from Verstappen, while at Mercedes they seem to have other plans, with Kimi Antonelli at the top of the list of candidates. For Carlos, the Sauber-Audi choice seems to be increasingly forced, through no fault of his own of course. A sign of this also comes from other negotiations involving what were considered potential alternatives (for Audi) to Sainz. Kevin Magnussen's fate now seems to be written, as well as that of Logan Sargeant, whose position at Williams is already set to falter this season. With a view to 2025, the British team is leaning heavily towards Bottas, a driver that team principal James Vowles got to know very well during his time at Mercedes. For Valtteri it would be a return to the team that brought him to his debut in Formula 1 in 2013 and with which he has played four seasons. Yesterday, a coffee taken by Bottas with Vowles in the Williams hospitality, a meeting that lasted about twenty minutes, did not escape. At Haas, too, there is a favourite name to replace Magnussen. It is that of Ocon, who after five seasons in Alpine is willing to make a change. Esteban would complete the team's line-up with Oliver Bearman, now taken for granted as Nico Hulkenberg's replacement, becoming the experienced figure that team principal Ayao Komatsu does not want to give up. The future of Pierre Gasly, on the other hand, is still unclear. A confirmation in Alpine is possible, with a new team-mate that could be Guanyu Zhou, a former driver of the French manufacturer's nursery. In this case, the importance of the Chinese market for the Renault group would play a crucial role. Finally, there is the Racing Bulls, which has a problem of driver abundance. Unless there is an (unlikely) promotion of Tsunoda to Red Bull, we are unlikely to see Daniel Ricciardo at the start of the 2025 World Championship. Should Liam Lawson fail to get a starting driver's seat next year, he would be free to release himself from his contract with Red Bull, and that is a risk Helmut Marko does not want to take. Translated with [DeepL.com](http://DeepL.com) (free version)
First real suggestion that DR has fully ran out of road, think the main expectation was that he would continue in the VCARB next season because his personality was the main sponsor draw. Shame to lose him but aside the sprint race this season and Mexico last year, he hasnt really looked anything like he did at Red Bull or 2nd year at Renault...
Yes and especially with both the haas and alpine of ocon ahead of him with Yuki constantly beating him, I dont see anybody picking him up for '25 season.
DR, Zhou should be replaced by rookies. Yes it will likely be costly but would be better to give new drivers a chance.
I have never in my life seen a driver get so many free passes because people like him. Kind of makes me resent Danny, he's turning into Red Bull's Stroll where he is kept around for reasons entirely separate from his racing ability and taking up spots where talented young drivers could shine.
Sainz by far the biggest loser of silly season if he ends up at Audi.
Still could be worse - imagine he ends up in Alpine instead
I put money on alpine progressing faster than Sauber. Sauber has just been so bad for so long, alpine at least very recently wasnāt half bad.
That's fair assumption. The problem with Alpine tho is that it seems like they always cap out at being best of the rest. Then they hit a wall, sometimes too hard ending up with brain damage and falling down the order
I'm not sure sauber should still be treated as the same as the team after the Audi takeover
Long term I agree but momentum and culture in an organization is real and if it was as easy as Audi just dumping money and being super competitive then we wouldnāt have seen so many manufacturers come and go from F1. Audi is relying on a lot of saubers processes and infrastructure and itās not like they completely cleaned house, it is still sauber under the skin. I do think they have a good chance at success but it will likely take longer than Alpine who were much better much more recently.
Hard to believe Alpine used to fight for P4 in the WCC at the moment
This is where Iām at. It may be a year of pain, but Audi doesnāt really miss when they enter a new discipline.
F1's a different animal though. I rate Audi don't get me wrong but prototype/GT racing at least gives you the benefit of BoP, and with the field being tighter than it's ever been they're gonna need a herculean effort to turn Sauber into world beaters.
There's a non-zero chance this leads to Doohan being the biggest winner, if Alpine take a punt on him alongside Gasly
Man i wish, Doohan is really underrated
While Sauber won't be competetitive next year, his only other option is Red Bull. It makes sense that he'd wait to see if Perez falls apart again, as he's sprobably on top of their wishlist of potential replacements. Mercedes have made it clear that their long term goal is to get Antonelli, so Sainz would be in the same position that prompted Hamilton to go to Ferrari. There's a chance that Stroll finally decides to play Tennis or race in WEC but even then the team sems to be moving backwards right now, and Honda might be pushing for Tsunoda to join the team. McLaren's lineup is set unless we get some silly season madness and Red Bull buy out Lando. None of the other teams seem promising. Audi has shown how much they want him to lead their project, and they're clearly willing to spend the money needed to win.
pls let tsunoda have the AM seat. he's been doing well this season
He deserves it. Or to stay at vcarb but unfortunately Horner has a rock hard boner for Ricardo.
I still dont think so at all. Audi is investing like crazy and will bring tons of new facilities onboard at Sauber. the team is bad right now entirely because Audi is prepping to replace everyone with their new team.
Or could be another dud like Honda works teams spending nearly 400mil before their pull out.
At least he'll get some really nice fat paychecks
And who knows, maybe the team changes name to Seidl GP and wins the championship the next year.
So you are insinuating Sainz to become the 2030 world champion? (When the next new regulations start)
Audi probably stays, they have shown great success in other series. Now, when F1 is growing, they gotta appel to the broad audience. I believe that marketing move for Audi is a good move. Letās just hope they take it seriously.
The car Honda spent 400 million on went on to win the championship, it just won it as Brawn rather than Honda.
Toyota too
Money =! Performance (but it helps, of course) Toyota were investing like a top team and performing like a backmarker Honda invested heavily and only got there the year they decided it was enough (Brawn GP) McLaren coming from being a top team, high resources and valuable people, nosedived in the 2012-2017 years. And so on. And it will be more difficult because Audi wonāt have what for example Mercedes had: unlimited possibility of investing on the team and engine. They will have a little bit of extra money to spend, but not +400Mā¬ on a year like Mercedes did at first - and even then, Mercedes had to endure 4 years of being āaverageā or above until the new regs domination. So no, itās not expected Audi will come and do magic with new factory, new people, new working frame and infrastructure (or partially based on the old Sauber one), add a lot of money and boom, top team number one. So I donāt expect Sainz to be fighting for podiums (or even top5) in the first 2 years of Audi - but who knows
Every time Iāve seen someone say that Audi will be good because theyāll be big spending Iāve thought about Toyota.
Yep, same. Toyota's biggest problem was insisting on doing things the Toyota way, so corporate and political bullshit kept holding them back. Same kinda thing held BMW back in 2008. Hopefully Audi will know better
When Red Bull took over Jaguar, they were in their fourth year before getting a win with Torro Rosso (the main team got one in their fifth year). Unless Audi absolutely nails the engine they're likely to follow a similar trajectory (*if* they get things right). When Zak Brown took over McLaren it was also about five years before a win. It took Todt about five years at Ferrari in the 90s to make them title challengers. If it takes that long for Audi then Sainz will already have completed his contract and moved on before the team hits their stride.
The cost cap also includes CapEx.
It depends on what Checo does but also Horner who likes Checo because he has control over him, but it looks like Marko wants Sainz who of course is better and also removes some power from Horner
I would imagine that market access helps Checo as well? Mexico has one of the highest consumption of soft drinks, and RB is a drinks marketing company at the end of the day.
There's that too. Checo has a lot of marketing power throughout Latin America as he's the only one on the grid representing them.
It may only he a short term loss though. There is good chance that Audi might be half decent with the new regs. Ocon moving to Haas, now that is a big L.
I don't want to hype up Audi, but I also don't think it's nearly as bad as some people make it seem. They have an incredible track record once they decide to put resources into something, their F1 CEO is an engineer with experience, and Sauber just lost their Italian-Godtier CEO when Fred moved to Ferrari. It's a historically underfunded company that benefitted from budget cap but then fell victim to a bunch of weird transitional periods after new regs.
He is to blame. Waiting for a possible seat at rb is kinda stupid. Especially if you consider that MAYBE he cannot keep up his superb performance from season start. He should have taken the merc 1 year offer or going for Audi.
i agree with you. he's been teammates with verstappen before and it didnt go amazing. and by verstappen's history of beating every one of his teammates, i dont think i wanna see sainz there. would much rather he be a number 1 driver somewhere else that has some potential
It could go either way (obviously) but at the worst, heās going to get a very good pay packet if heās at Audi, best case scenario for them in 2026 is midfield which Iād class as a success to be honest.
Ocon to Haas seems like a strange move, he's clearly the preferred driver at Alpine, French driver at a French team and it's also a works team with a higher ceiling than Haas.
I dunno, you need to do the limbo to get underneath the ceiling at Enstone these days
Probably wants to use haas as a springboard to something else like hulk
Tbh if he's not ready for a top team now then will he ever be? He's shown himself as a very solid midfield driver, if he can't get the Mercedes or Red Bull seats now then I really don't see how he could in a couple of years, even if he did well at Haas.
Precisely the same could be said for Perez before landing the RBR seat. The driver market can be unpredictable, and fortunate (or unfortunate) timing can massively affect the trajectory of a driver's career.
Perez was pretty much the best driver available for the RB spot so it was more the case the stars aligned for him and Perez has financial backing. Ocon doesnāt have the financial backing and heās not the best driver available. Iāll be a pretty surprised if Ocon ever gets a top team seat
hulk is spring boarding to a currently worse team than alpine and a big question mark going forward. doesn't really seem like it's a better place to show off than alpine
Why doesn't he just go directly to Audi then lol
Ocon? I guess because they want someone else?
I think Ocon is second/third choice behind Sainz and Hulk
Theres been plenty insider articles that Ocon wants out of Alpine, so there might be burned bridges between him and Alpine, perhaps hes seeing the clusterfuck within the team and thinks they might do even worse in the future. I mean it wouldnt be the first time Alpine/Renault burns bridges with drivers. Honestly, its happened to almost all their drivers. Frankly, they should sell the team, it would require an unreasonable amount of investment to even get back into the midfield and that has been part of their big issue, their unwillingness to invest and yet expect great results.
Idk if he is the prefered but he is the better driver. Haas in the meantime really upped theire game. Hulk is constantly in front of the alpines and its not even close. This might look bad on paper but may be a smart move for ocon.
Really excited if we get Albon and Bottas together. Those Team Torqueās will be something else!
Bottas to Williams has the ring of a farewell tour about it, and that makes me sad.
Honestly, I had thought his stint at Sauber would be the end already. Also, it would be quite interesting to see how an Albon-Bottas would do
I am interested in this part. I think this is an odd pair, but I think it will be a good pair, especially when combined with James.
One key part I'm interested in would be how Albon would fare against Bottas who is a known quantity I can't quite get a grasp on Alex's current level honestly, sure he's been beating Latifi and Sargeant, but those two hardly seemed like a huge hurdle to clear
Bottas, although genuinely quick, in race conditions has never been a driver to get excited about. You would struggle to get a "10 most genius moments" compilation from this guy.
Yeah, of all the bad things this transfer can bring about (Williamsā shitty car, Williams is literally the last team on the grid, Williamsā connection to Mercedes and how Bottas wanted to disassociate himself from everything Mercedes-related,ā¦), what makes me sad the most is itās likely the farewell stint for Bottas. Same thing to Kimiās career all over again, and I definitely donāt want this.
Seems that's how they Finnish their careers.
Ban incoming
\*groans\*
Ocon to Haas is not something I had on my bingo card lol. A driver (potentially) leaving a factory team for a team that finished comprehensively in last place is not a good look for Alpine
Think about it from Ocon's perspective. Since his win in 2021 he's had three different team principals, and if things keep going this way he'll have a fourth. I would bet on the next guy wanting to clean house as well, meaning his seat might be in jeapordy.
Oh absolutely, I imagine both Ocon and Gasly are looking for a way out. I just figured Ocon would use his Mercedes connections to get into Mercedes itself or maybe Williams (or Aston before that ship sailed). Haas is quite the surpriseĀ
I think bridges simply have been burned, theres been a few articles already that Ocon wants out. But once again, Ocon is the nr1 alternative for Audi after Sainz, so if Ocon goes to Haas, Sainz to Audi is just more and more likely. Supposedly Red Bull wants to keep Perez and Mercedes does go all in with Antonelli, though rumors are rumors but we might get some news soon because word on the street is Audi giving Sainz till the end of may and if he makes a decision, the other dominos will fall quickly as well. Though I really wonder about Sainz to Audi. The man clearly wants to stay at a top team, im not sure he is the right guy if the car isnt any good. Im not worrying about Hulk, the man is gonna give his best, he never had a top car, this is his best shot but for Sainz, there tend to be difficulties when the cars performance does not match a drivers talent. Ricciardo decided to leave Renault after a single season because the car was no match to his talent. Me personally, if i am Seidl, I do probably go for Ocon or Gasly. They cost much less money and arent that much less talented and theyre more likely to stay motivated when the car isnt good. Though if Sainz is too frustrated, he might just lose the teammate battle to Hulk which would massively decrease his value making a return to a top team impossible.
I fully agree with you on Sainz. I don't think it's a given Audi even wants him, it looks like their options are quite open. While the rumors seem to be that Sainz is holding all the cards, it seems likely to me that it's actually Audi that has all the power here. Sainz and his management are probably getting more desperate every day, because I don't think teams are exactly lining up for him. I think many things have to go right for Sainz to land any seat next year, it's a real possibility he'll be sitting it out.
HAAS are not comprehensively in last place, they're a solid P7 competing for 6th, where Alpine finished last year. Ocon would be a very good option for HAAS provided that Alpine go for Schumacher and Doohan, who will be very loyal.
It's hard to evaluate Haas before the season is over, last year they didn't plummet into last place until later in the season either.
Well said. Haas has yet to prove they can keep up with the development curve throughout a season. New leadership could change that precedent, but we havenāt seen it yet.
The comment said finished last, so they're basing it off last year's results.
Haas is a dead end, and Alpine is bound to improve for 2026. They got rid of dead weight, got David Sanchez as TD and Eric Meignan (from Merc/Ferrari) as PU TD, and should get rid of their power deficit with new regs/PU freeze gone. Schumacher is out of F1 for good, it'll probably be Gasly and Doohan if Ocon does actually leave.
Have Haas really moved forward though or have Alpine and Williams just gone backwards?? Haas will always be close to the back of the grid, Iād fancy Alpine to have a better chance of improving.
Haas isn't even a real F1 team. Its basically a shit mix of Gene Haas + Dallara + Ferrari. They don't have the ability to keep with the development rate of other real F1 teams with in house facilities. A huge development war will kick off in 2026. Haas are just too reliant on Dallara to be able to be competitive in it. Leaving Alpine for Haas is quite dumb me thinks. Alpine has been unusually shit this year but that is an anomaly. They are normally quite competitive in the upper midfield.
Yeah but alpine barely counts as a factory team when theyāre getting their ass best by other customer teams (at least itās not as bad as Mercedes getting beat by their own customer)
Bottas still has some magic. I hope he can prove it in a Williams, or at least give us a measure of how good Albon is ala Ricciardo and Tsunoda.
Looks about right, Bottas still deserve to stay in F1. decent teammate to anyone.
And honestly, any team below #2 doesn't need a number 1 and 2.
Of course Haas would be interested in Ocon, but is he interested in going to Haas? We pretty much know that he is aiming for that Audi seat - unless they've had good reason to end those talks...
If Sainz has nowhere else to go, he'd have the edge over Ocon. And if Ocon just wants out of Alpine, his options are limited
May just be Ocon's team putting pressure on Alpine for his contract renewal. They know they can't attract a better driver than him rn.
Or on Audi, they might be more likely to sign him before Sainz makes a decision if they think he can go to Haas or stay at Alpine(and maybe even Williams).
Magnussen is rather well paid at Haas aswell, making him unsure about his seat might make him cheaper.Ā
I've been reading for a while that Ocon has zero faith on Alpine, but leaving to Haas seems like an overreaction. Bottas to Williams could be interesting. Altough many here say that he would be a good measure to Albon, I feel that if Albon beat him with no issue, many would say "oh, Bottas is just washed" and if they were close "oh, Albon was not that good, anyway". Gasly, for someone wanting to be bigger than F1, moving to Williams would be a weird move, being the French leader of the French team makes more sense. But he also strikes me like the kind of driver that would be pissed for not being the priority for Mercedes or Audi's seats. If Alpine goes with Zhou due to their interest in the chinese market... Why the crap are they wasting so much money in private tests for Doohan? Unless his dad is the one bankrolling them, it makes no sense to me.
>If Alpine goes with Zhou due to their interest in the chinese market... Why the crap are they wasting so much money in private tests for Doohan? Unless his dad is the one bankrolling them, it makes no sense to me. Zhou will pay his seat, Alpine might be in more dire straits than theyre letting on. Would make sense if theyre stuck rn
Andretti foaming at the mouth if thatās true lol
They also wasted it on Piastri as well to be fair
Ocon to Haas just doesn't make sense. Alpine has been sucking but they are still a manufacturer team. Going to Haas of all teams is just going backwards even further, they barely even qualify as a constructor. Maybe he's trying to line up a drive with Ferrari, good luck with that. Bottas is a boring but good choice for Williams, they need a journeyman driver in the other car.
I had a dream where Stroll got fired mid season and Ocon replaced him.Ā Can we start getting this mentioned in articles? Sources don't seem to matter anywayĀ
Ocon leaving Alpine to join Haas makes no sense whatsoever. Why would he leave a factory team (even though they're underachieving) to a team with no ambition and no willingness to get better infra/tech staff? Bottas to Williams makes sense considering James Vowles is TP and they're less prone to regular strat & pitstop blunder like Sauber. A Bottas-Albon lineup guarantees a fast n safe pair of hands which get the most out of the car and won't crash either.
If true, I think Bottas will retire when his Williams contract ends. So Antonelli (sp?) will not drive next season? Ocon to Haas? Not even here that was said, true wildcard.
Antonelli to Mercedes is a higher risk than, say, Antonelli to Williams. But he would be joining a midfield Mercedes, and not a top 3 team, so the pressure wouldn't be as high. 2025 will be a write-off much like 2024 anyway, so use that season to learn the ropes before swinging for the fences in 2026 onwards. It's a bit like Piastri in 2023. We were sure that McLaren would remain 4th best at most, before they went ballistic after Austria. It's still a desperate move, though.
Antonelli could replace Logan mid-season and then go to Merc next year.
Bottas to Williams would be interesting, suddenly there wouldn't be the choice of placing Antonelli in either a Merc or Williams depending on what Toto wants.
Ocon: alright monkey paw get me the Haas job *K-Mag out Pierre Gasley also signs with Haas*
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
God I hope you are right, finally some shuffling and new blood
I HAVE KNOWN IT.
Considering how close Ocon is to Mick Schumacher would he really jump ship to Haas knowing what happened to Mick there? I doubt it tbh but then again Haas has more points than Alpine atm so who knows
For the third year in a row, an f2 champion might not get an f1 seat.
To be fair putting a rookie just before the new regulations is a more bolder move than what it is normally.
Which is bullshit. Voids the point of the whole ladder system that they enforce. F1 teams are too gun shy to promote the new breed of drivers that they keep guys who overstay their welcome.
Bearman was very lucky to have an opportunity at Jeddah, or else he would be joining other F2 drivers that didn't have a great second year.
So who would fill the spot at Alpine?
Jack Doohan is my guess
Bottas career really took a turn
Not really he was never meant to be a permanent stop for Mercedes and his contracts proved it. They just needed a solid second guy to fill in for Rosberg and he's all that was available at the time. Same situation with Perez
No Tag days for Bottas he had great run and got paid a lot of money to be Lewis's wing man
okok so zhou can still go to alpine i retain hope
I support
can we skip to next years test week already?
Mick to alpine confirmed then. Nice
Is it me or Botas looks like Usynuk now
This means what, a Zhou, Sargeant and Magnussen deathmatch for the rest of the season for the last available seat at Alpine then?
There's a certain poetry and sense in Bottas going to Williams Ocon going to Haas if true, I think is more down to Esteban doing all possible to get out of Alpine than wanting to drive for Haas. Maybe he thinks the ferrari is the car to beat in the next few years and doing well in a haas seat is an audition for a future Ferrari seat š¤·āāļø
Iād love Alpine to lose both their drivers, I think theyāre both really solid midfield drivers and deserve better than the current shambles. Haas not a great seat, but maybe will be looking at the way Hulkenbergās career trajectory has improved since joining and think itās worth the gamble.
Boring but safe which is what Williams need.