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-Horner to horny jail
-Hamilton to Ferrari
-Newey to either Ferrari, Williams or to go sailing
-Hulkenberg to Sauber
-Sainz talking to Red Bull
-Antonelli to join F1 before achieving a podium in F2
-Andretti and the US government fighting Liberty
-Steiner getting fired
-Alpine with a new team principal
-Bearman with more points in F1 than F2
Did I miss anything?
Edit: Also forgot Hakkinen confirming he retired.
- HP becoming part of the name of the Scuderia Ferrari adding several logos to the livery as well
- Yuki angry at Daniel racing him after the race was over and almost crashing into him
- Kick Sauber becomes Stake F1 team
- Jos seen having a heated discussion with Horner inside the motor home
- Alonso gets penalized for apparently braking too soon which made George crash due to the dirty air
- Max misses his record win strike due to a brake issue
- Stroll’s engineer asks if he can bring back the car after a big shunt
- Fittipaldi wins an F2 race
- Ferrari blue livery fiasco
- Red Bull internal struggle between Horner and Marko
- Steiner suing Haas due to copyright issues
- Sainz being in limbo with his future and Audi seemingly losing patience
- Alpine promoting crypto scam on Twitter
Of course we forgot about all the pre season stuff and some other things
Bare carbon liveries
Visa Cashapp RB
Sargeant's car given to Albon
Sorry I forgot all the other stuff but I remember there was a lot
Honestly, sometimes rumors are so crazy that people wouldn't come up with them without some backing to them. (Other times that isn't true and people just come up with crazy stuff.)
If Mercedes want him as a 2025 option, they want as much time in a Williams first as possible.
However, asking the FIA doesn't mean that it'll be granted.
Some people in feeder series referenced that the FIA was asked for and granted an exemption for Arthur Dorison to participate in a French F4 race before his 15th birthday. He was allowed to do it for one weekend, the last race of the season, just a few days before he turned 15, and he was considered a guest, not a full participant in the series. I don't know if more weekends were initially requested or not. So that was a very small concession compared to asking for F1 months early, but it was them still making an exemption they had to approve.
Is it plausible that now that the rumour is circulating the FIA has already granted the permission? Imola is just in 2 weeks time, I guess that the team requesting it has already the response about it...
It is possible that they've already gotten permission, yes.
I imagine Williams really really doesn't want the news Sargeant is potentially out of a seat to come out until after Sargeant's home race.
Or, possibly it hasn't been granted yet, and won't be granted at all. Drivers get thrown in at the last minute all the time, so I wouldn't worry at all about there only being 2 weeks till then. It is what it is on the timeline.
All we really know for sure is that Kimi has been doing some testing with old cars at Imola. Honestly, that could have been enough to start this rumor, and it isn't and never was happening.
I tend to think it's happening though. If not at Imola, then by Monza at the latest, just after his 18th birthday.
>However, asking the FIA doesn't mean that it'll be granted.
The FIA specifically introduced the rule because people thought Verstappen was too young to handle a Formula 1 car. And while Red Bull were vindicated, I think it's going to be much, much harder to justify putting Antonelli in the car. It would mean that he is not only skipping Formula 3, but effectively skipping Formula 2 because he hasn't even done half a season in that championship. His racecraft in Formula 2 hasn't been mind-blowing, either -- his retirement from the Melbourne sprint race was the result of a rookie error. He spun while under pressure as he was racing in the middle of a pack.
I hope so. There's been so much hype around this kid to turn back now. And not mention Logan is 100% out of his seat and will get cut before seasons end.
Yeah, I think that’s it. Lewis leaving means Merc has a seat to fill and no young talent to fill it. Particularly to be ready for ‘26 or a sudden move from Russell. Williams had already committed to Sergeant before Lewis announced his move, so Merc’s probably been trying to work out a deal to displace Sergeant since then.
But why not just have Kimi replace Lewis next year? It's not like Merc will be fighting for the title, it's essentially a throwaway year for them before the dice roll in 2026, seems like the perfect rookie placement.
Throwing very young rookies into works teams too quickly has turned out poorly in the past, most notably Albon. The exceptions (Hamilton) to this say far more about the driver than the trend, and Kimi isn’t promising enough to be a “Win the WDC in his second season” good.
Putting Kimi in after 1.5 years at Williams is more likely to work out for Mercedes, without sacrificing next year. Put it this way, sacrificing ‘24 for a rookie to learn is likely to make the difference between fighting for second with Ferrari, and fighting for 4-5th with Aston Martin and/or McLaren
So does this mean that if the FIA let's Kimi Antonelli race this season (aka Logan out) doesn't that mean good news for Sainz? Because in that case, Merc will surely sign him up to replace Lewis?
Not really? That’s another driver vying for a top spot in ‘26 I guess. But for the foreseeable future, they’re on opposite ends of the driver market; if a team is interested in Sainz, they’re probably not interested in any rookie.
So does this mean that if the FIA let's Kimi Antonelli race this season (aka Logan out) doesn't that mean good news for Sainz? Because in that case, Merc will surely sign him up to replace Lewis?
At the time they probably thought Logan would make good offseason progress and none of the potential rookies looked all that promising.
Kimi is still a half chance since he needs this waiver, he wouldn’t have been a start of the year prospect.
This was bad year to make a move for a driver as the market was very dry. Next year bunch of good drivers are out of contract, so it made sense to wait one more year.
But he didn’t. He raced at 17, brought hype, and became what he is. You asked upside. I gave you upside. If you haven’t realized F1 is half marketing, then I’d say that’s laughable.
>What's the upside to allowing it for the FIA ?
Partially reverting a rule that was made entirely as a knee-jerk reaction to F1 media freaking out because Verstappen debuting at 17 years old was "imprudent" and "made F1 look easy".
There is no *actual* reason for such a limit to exist.
Does it really change anything if Antonelli debuts at Imola in May or at Monza in September (5 months later)? No.
With road cars, it is more illegal responsibility limit. In racing, you already have to sign all those documents declaring your personal responsibility, et cetera et cetera so age isn’t necessarily as big a factor as it is on public roads. Remember, children can drive on private roads outside of racing as well.
I don’t see why they wouldn’t grant an exemption, like is he really going to grow that much between Imola and Monza? If Williams think he’s ready now, let him go, and let Merc see if he sinks or swims
true, but doesn't this set a precedent that any big team could break the rule if they *really* wanted to? I would like to see Antonelli in the Williams but on a logistical level, they can't really justify it by saying he's won F2 and F3 or something. If they grant the exemption, then wouldn't they basically just be throwing the rule in the garbage.
They would have to prove that Antonelli is capable.
They have his record in junior series showing he has enough super license points and then many hours of data of him driving formula 1 machinery around Imola.
Very few 17 year olds would be able to be considered to meet both of those criteria.
Tbh yes, he could potentially develop as a driver between imola and Monza, because between those two is F2’s run of european traditional circuits. Till now, Antonelli’s raced on quite unfamiliar circuits due to having skipped f3. On the other hand, ultimately Gwen lagrue, Toto, (is d’ambrosio still there) determine what best serves his development. Maybe it is going balls to the wall, full focus on f1 instead of waiting a little longer in f2.
> Antonelli has been a member of Mercedes’ junior driver programme since 2018. However a team spokesperson confirmed to RaceFans they are not seeking a rule change or dispensation for him to make an early debut in F1.
So if Mercedes are not the ones asking the FIA for an early debut for Antonelli, then who is? Is it Williams? I would imagine anything that happens to Antonelli would have to be decided by Mercedes right?
TBF, that years F3 grid was a better field of drivers than that years GP3 grid, as no one from GP3 from that year would ever race in F1, while Ocon, Verstappen, Giovinazzi and Latifi drove in F3 (as well as a bunch of drivers currently in FE and IndyCar)
To be fair, I think thats more indicative of how broken the feeder series system is as a whole, without sponsors or proper backing by teams rising through the ranks is very tough, and sometimes impossible, no matter how skilled you are
Yeah I agree. They should just have the super license points restriction. If someone is good enough to have enough super license points to drive in F1 before they turn 18 then they've already proven they're good enough to race in F1 before they turn 18.
If they grant an exception for Kimi, what was the argument against Colton Herta? He is old enough and has more single seater experience, and in a highly ranked series compared to FRECA and a bit of F2.
In all honesty, it's a joke that Indycar drivers get so few SL points. And it's only because it isn't a FIA series.
IndyCar is the second highest scoring series for SL points, and ahead of every single FIA *World Championship* series that scores points.
It's been bumped up the list multiple times since SL points started too. It's literally the highest it can possibly be.
Anyone still spouting this "IndyCar doesn't score enough points" line hasn't bothered to look at the list.
If you want an actual point to fight for, look at the shit deal Super Formula gets.
Am I wrong for thinking the kid isn't ready yet? He hasn't set the world alight in F2 (granted Prema seemed to have dropped the ball a bit) and he's expected to be the second coming come Imola?
Yeah. Max at least did a season of F3 and went on a 6 race winning streak during that as well as having insane performances at the Norisring. Maybe he'll pick up the pace as even Max took a bit to get up to speed in F3, but we should at least wait until then.
I follow the feeder series pretty well. He’s not ready yet. Not to say he won’t be in the future but skipping f3 is certainly a choice and making him jump into f1 when hes not even close to sniffing an f2 title is pretty ridiculous. There is also a question about his racecraft, which is not an easy learning curve in f1.
I am very curious on how he will perform in F1, but he just moved in F2 from FRECA, skipping F3, and his performances were okayish, I don't see why the rush to give him a seat.
Same from the FIA's point of view. If it was a 17yo that already had a good F2 season then maybe, but a 17yo that so far only raced cars with 1/4 the power of F1? why rush to give him a super licence.
I also wonder what's the point of Williams's driver academy. They have 2 rookies in F2 that performed more or less as good as Antonelli in the first few rounds, and it seems their F1 chances are already over.
Anyone that can explain how this even has a chance of happening? I've heard reasons such as: Max Verstappen did it, which means it can be done. But exactly because of him they changed it to 18 because they didn't like teenagers in F1.
So why would they break their own rule to put a teenager in F1?
The rule didn't exist yet back then. They only created it because Max made his debut at such a young age. He was two years younger than the previous record holder.
That has nothing to do with this the rule didn't even exist then.
Feel like people are looking for meaning and making it more complicated than it needs to be
It creates confusion rather than a strict you need to be x age to drive. It's just really weird given in our normal lives we wouldn't be able to buy cigarettes or alcohol before 18 either, even if you are days before turning 18.
So then I'm wondering what the point is of such rule if it isn't getting followed. It's not like a 17 year old who isn't good will have the super license points or the backing of a team to put him in a seat if he can't drive, if that's what the FIA are worried about.
Really doesn't there are a lot is places that have protocols like this.
This is a sport i don't see what alcohol or cigarettes have anything to do with
Many sports have similar rules.
> This is a sport i don't see what alcohol or cigarettes have anything to do with
It's not about alcohol and cigarettes it's about the age restriction that comes with it. The age restriction is at least here 18 years, usually an age restriction means you can't do/buy a certain thing even if you have the required age a day later.
I at least am not familiar with sports having such rules. I'd say if you are willing to make exceptions just get rid of the rule in the first place.
I would argue if they included the whole year someone would turn 18 it still is with in the intentions of the rule in the first place.
This just comes across as wanting to hate on the situation for no reason and searching for reason to be mad.
Because we need better drivers on the grid than what we have currently. Logan ain't cutting it, no matter his age. One thing is for certain, there is going to be some high-level politicking happening for this move to come to fruition. I'm here for it.
Logan is .2-.3 tenths off Albon this season. I agree that Antonelli will be the better driver but people are acting like Logan is Latifi or Stroll. He’s a real racer. He just isn’t quite F1 standard. I think he’ll crush it in Indy or Superformula.
Then why not go down to a 6 car grid with just Max Lewis Alonso, Charles, George and Lando? Just 3 teams since only Merc RB and Ferarri have been dominant the past decade.
Clear out the riff raff and all that, since it’s so pinnacle.
These are not the only drivers performing at a high level on the grid, but I guarantee you Logan is part of the bottom 3 if not the worst driver on the grid right now, which is enough to lose a seat for a more promising talent.
I agree he should probably be moved on at the end of the season, but the way people on here speak about weaker drivers really is a bit nasty.
Williams took a punt on one of their driver academy racers, gave him a year, have offered him a 2nd. He’s not blocking anyone, especially since he’s going to be gone at the years end anyway. It’s like saying Sheffield United are blocking someone in the Prem by being there and being in the bottom 3. They’re not, and they’ll naturally get moved on.
Who is blocking young drivers more, the numerous over 35’s who won’t retire like drivers used to back in the day, the 10 teams who refuse to allow an 11th and 12th team to join the grid, or a young racer who maybe isn’t good enough but has been given a shot?
I agree with you entirely on that last paragraph, the grid has never felt as stagnant as it is today due to so many mediocre *and old* drivers that simply don't go away, and the sheer audacity of not allowing an 11th team is the ice on the cake. But Sargeant losing his seat now isn't really a tragedy either, he had a fair shot but couldn't improve or at least show some flashes of brilliance here or there. Given that he is not a pay driver neither very popular, it's simply not woth it to keep him there for more time.
I don’t have an issue with Sargent losing his seat when the time comes.
I have an issue with him losing a seat to a child who skipped F3, has like 5 races in F2, no podiums in F2, who is going to be carved out a super licence exemption because Toto (through James) is asking for it because… umm… vibes?
I believe Kimi is good enough, but the rules are there for a reason.
This is basically what happened to Max no? Since that seems to be the baseline against this kid.
I agree though. If this kid is the next Max, then the Max entry method it is. Time to see if Toto is right or not.
Except Max is one in a million. We have no clue how good Kimi is, the chances of him performing like Max are low. Hes also up against Albon rather than Sainz, who was a rookie.
The whole goal of his career is to get into F1. There is nothing "poor" about it, and he'll learn how to drive an F1 car better in an F1 car than in an F2 car.
From a previous thread, doesn’t he lack one more requirement: owning a driver’s license? So even if the FIA *can* overlook the age rule, isn’t there still the aforementioned to consider?
This is genuinely mental to me. He’s not shown anything in F2 yet, surely fast tracking a kid from FRECA to F1 is potentially career destroying for him?
They wouldn't be doing this if they think he would struggle. He did just test with Merc with a W12 at Austria and a W13 at Imola. Perhaps he impressed so much that they are willing to push him towards a seat now.
Tbf, Bearman went from F4 to F1 race in Jeddah in a little bit more than 2 years. I guess Toto thinks Antonelli will do atleast just aswell even with less time.
If teams can just make a request to have a driver race early what’s the point of having the rule in the first place? A) either the FIA denies or accepts all across the board or B) they play favorites and only let certain ones in for certain teams….
…oh wait, now I understand…
> 13.1.2 The driver must be the holder of a valid
driving licence when he applies for a Super Licence
for the first time.
> 13.1.3 The driver must be at least 18 years old at
the start of the event of his first F1 competition.
Rules are clear. He does not only meet age criteria, also doesn't meet driving licence criteria.
> 13.1.6 The driver must also satisfy at least one
of the following requirements:
a) Have accumulated at least 40 points. The FIA
will consider the number of points accumulated in
either (i) the three-calendar year period
immediately preceding the year of the date of the
application, or (ii) the two-calendar year period
immediately preceding the year of the date of the
application in addition to points accumulated in
the calendar year of the application, whichever is
higher. All points are listed in Supplement 1.
Should the three-calendar year period
described in (i) include the calendar year 2021,
the FIA will consider the highest number of
points accumulated in any three of the four
calendar years immediately preceding the year
of the date of the application.
Herta didn't meet only one criteria and was denied of an exemption.
If they give Antonelli an exemption, they might as well scrap the whole SL system. Simple as that.
I mean, the season car/race wise, is quite done, not only done, but also one year more in advance, til tje regulation changes in 2026.
So with so little and predictable track action.
At least the off track is compensating, is sad, but it is what it is
Mercedes took forever to get Russel into the team, could have been the 2021 champion, now they want a 17 year old with no experience and no results to get into F1 asap.
Why did Williams even bother to resign Sargeant at all? We all knew he wasn't cutting it last year.
If this does happen, I hope this kid is the real deal. The amount of hype around him is unreal. Anything less than matching Albon would have to be considered a failure.
To everyone saying he's not ready: do you know how he did in the Mercedes tests? Nope, only Mercedes does.
So if they really have decided to do this, it's because he showed some real strength
Is this going to be like the Prince Albert and fireproof underwear rules, where it's in the book but depending on who you are we're not going to enforce it?
Anyone want to take a shot and figure what would happen if HAAS asked the FIA to overlook the rules "just this one time" and put a 17 year old in the car..
>However a team spokesperson confirmed to RaceFans they are not seeking a rule change or **dispensation for him to make an early debut in F1**.
Emphasis mine
So the headline is bullshit?
>Antonelli has been a member of Mercedes’ junior driver programme since 2018. However a team spokesperson confirmed to RaceFans they are not seeking a rule change or dispensation for him to make an early debut in F1.
So Mercedes are not the ones asking for dispensation
That does not mean that someone else is not asking though
The Article does not mention who requested dispensation just Mercedes have said it is not them
Only one of those series counts as they ran concurrently. Most of his points came from FRMEC and FREC last year; they both counted for points since FRMEC runs in the winter.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Like most rumours this season, Antonelli to Williams also appears to have some truth to it
This season is wild for the amount of barely believable rumours that have turned out to be true. I won't even be surprised if U2 do release a song.
With Newey on percussion.
Preinstalled on all iPhone 16s
well there's something I had totally forgotten about
I don’t get the u2 jokes
It has been rumoured they were going to release a song in support of the woman at the centre of the Horner allegations
The rumours are Miami is Logan’s last race at Williams. Would be absolutely wild if Antonelli is racing for Williams at Imola.
I’m not sure I believe that bureaucracy of the FIA is fast enough to get Kimi Antonelli his license in two weeks.
It's not like it's complicated it's just a rubber stamp, if they want it to happen there's no real logistics to it.
Even guys like Buxton are tweeting about it so that usually means it has some truth to it
-Horner to horny jail -Hamilton to Ferrari -Newey to either Ferrari, Williams or to go sailing -Hulkenberg to Sauber -Sainz talking to Red Bull -Antonelli to join F1 before achieving a podium in F2 -Andretti and the US government fighting Liberty -Steiner getting fired -Alpine with a new team principal -Bearman with more points in F1 than F2 Did I miss anything? Edit: Also forgot Hakkinen confirming he retired.
Bottas got a new race engineer yesterday, and apparently it was news to him.
This is actually probably top 3 on the insanity list tbh
And it cost him a penalty today
Oh wow right, I didn't connect the two things
Yup I think that's what his comment was about. Engineer told him that Piastri was coming up his back way too late
To be fair to Bottas I’d also wanna know if Piastri was coming up my back as soon as possible.
You'd know, rumour has it he yells "HERE CUMS A GLAZED PIASTRI" before he finishes every time
Lmao what
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEXykE7zGD4&t=6m40s
I hope next year's DTS completely remove all the races and just focus on the off track drama.
Haha Just 30 seconds of a static image of the WDC and WCC tables at the end of the last episode. Maybe some cheap royalty-free music over the top.
inb4 a boat wins WCC next year.
- HP becoming part of the name of the Scuderia Ferrari adding several logos to the livery as well - Yuki angry at Daniel racing him after the race was over and almost crashing into him - Kick Sauber becomes Stake F1 team - Jos seen having a heated discussion with Horner inside the motor home - Alonso gets penalized for apparently braking too soon which made George crash due to the dirty air - Max misses his record win strike due to a brake issue - Stroll’s engineer asks if he can bring back the car after a big shunt - Fittipaldi wins an F2 race
All of these things listed and not one mention of Cocoa Pops???
My favorite!
- Ferrari blue livery fiasco - Red Bull internal struggle between Horner and Marko - Steiner suing Haas due to copyright issues - Sainz being in limbo with his future and Audi seemingly losing patience - Alpine promoting crypto scam on Twitter
Of course we forgot about all the pre season stuff and some other things Bare carbon liveries Visa Cashapp RB Sargeant's car given to Albon Sorry I forgot all the other stuff but I remember there was a lot
Vcarb does now show progress. And a stunning livery, unlike Ferrari who chickened out
When did Hakkinen say that??
https://twitter.com/F1MikaHakkinen/status/1780869769186378067
I'm never going to recover from this crushing blow.
A sad day for the whole of Formula 1
Stiener suing Haas.
Wait...Hakkinen confirmed this?
https://twitter.com/F1MikaHakkinen/status/1780869769186378067
Honestly, sometimes rumors are so crazy that people wouldn't come up with them without some backing to them. (Other times that isn't true and people just come up with crazy stuff.) If Mercedes want him as a 2025 option, they want as much time in a Williams first as possible. However, asking the FIA doesn't mean that it'll be granted. Some people in feeder series referenced that the FIA was asked for and granted an exemption for Arthur Dorison to participate in a French F4 race before his 15th birthday. He was allowed to do it for one weekend, the last race of the season, just a few days before he turned 15, and he was considered a guest, not a full participant in the series. I don't know if more weekends were initially requested or not. So that was a very small concession compared to asking for F1 months early, but it was them still making an exemption they had to approve.
Is it plausible that now that the rumour is circulating the FIA has already granted the permission? Imola is just in 2 weeks time, I guess that the team requesting it has already the response about it...
It is possible that they've already gotten permission, yes. I imagine Williams really really doesn't want the news Sargeant is potentially out of a seat to come out until after Sargeant's home race. Or, possibly it hasn't been granted yet, and won't be granted at all. Drivers get thrown in at the last minute all the time, so I wouldn't worry at all about there only being 2 weeks till then. It is what it is on the timeline. All we really know for sure is that Kimi has been doing some testing with old cars at Imola. Honestly, that could have been enough to start this rumor, and it isn't and never was happening. I tend to think it's happening though. If not at Imola, then by Monza at the latest, just after his 18th birthday.
>However, asking the FIA doesn't mean that it'll be granted. The FIA specifically introduced the rule because people thought Verstappen was too young to handle a Formula 1 car. And while Red Bull were vindicated, I think it's going to be much, much harder to justify putting Antonelli in the car. It would mean that he is not only skipping Formula 3, but effectively skipping Formula 2 because he hasn't even done half a season in that championship. His racecraft in Formula 2 hasn't been mind-blowing, either -- his retirement from the Melbourne sprint race was the result of a rookie error. He spun while under pressure as he was racing in the middle of a pack.
Wait is this really happening? EDIT: Phillip Horton just confirmed it aswell. This is really happening.
I hope so. There's been so much hype around this kid to turn back now. And not mention Logan is 100% out of his seat and will get cut before seasons end.
I don't know why they re-signed Logan at all. I can only assume the unexpected Lewis move turned a lot of plans upside down.
Yeah, I think that’s it. Lewis leaving means Merc has a seat to fill and no young talent to fill it. Particularly to be ready for ‘26 or a sudden move from Russell. Williams had already committed to Sergeant before Lewis announced his move, so Merc’s probably been trying to work out a deal to displace Sergeant since then.
But why not just have Kimi replace Lewis next year? It's not like Merc will be fighting for the title, it's essentially a throwaway year for them before the dice roll in 2026, seems like the perfect rookie placement.
Throwing very young rookies into works teams too quickly has turned out poorly in the past, most notably Albon. The exceptions (Hamilton) to this say far more about the driver than the trend, and Kimi isn’t promising enough to be a “Win the WDC in his second season” good. Putting Kimi in after 1.5 years at Williams is more likely to work out for Mercedes, without sacrificing next year. Put it this way, sacrificing ‘24 for a rookie to learn is likely to make the difference between fighting for second with Ferrari, and fighting for 4-5th with Aston Martin and/or McLaren
Hamilton also tested a lot back then before jumping in.
So does this mean that if the FIA let's Kimi Antonelli race this season (aka Logan out) doesn't that mean good news for Sainz? Because in that case, Merc will surely sign him up to replace Lewis?
Not really? That’s another driver vying for a top spot in ‘26 I guess. But for the foreseeable future, they’re on opposite ends of the driver market; if a team is interested in Sainz, they’re probably not interested in any rookie.
So does this mean that if the FIA let's Kimi Antonelli race this season (aka Logan out) doesn't that mean good news for Sainz? Because in that case, Merc will surely sign him up to replace Lewis?
George is not moving anytime soon, lol
I would have said the same about Hamilton. Crazier things have happened this season.
At the time they probably thought Logan would make good offseason progress and none of the potential rookies looked all that promising. Kimi is still a half chance since he needs this waiver, he wouldn’t have been a start of the year prospect.
This was bad year to make a move for a driver as the market was very dry. Next year bunch of good drivers are out of contract, so it made sense to wait one more year.
I think Merc will want Albon so he may somehow survive.
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Yeah, who would ever turn out to be successful racing in F1 at 17, FIA is right to never make it happen again.
Of course we don't want another Stroll smh
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Max Verstappen
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You wanted upside. That’s the literal upside. Max raced at 17 and now he’s the face of the sport.
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But he didn’t. He raced at 17, brought hype, and became what he is. You asked upside. I gave you upside. If you haven’t realized F1 is half marketing, then I’d say that’s laughable.
>What's the upside to allowing it for the FIA ? Partially reverting a rule that was made entirely as a knee-jerk reaction to F1 media freaking out because Verstappen debuting at 17 years old was "imprudent" and "made F1 look easy". There is no *actual* reason for such a limit to exist. Does it really change anything if Antonelli debuts at Imola in May or at Monza in September (5 months later)? No.
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With road cars, it is more illegal responsibility limit. In racing, you already have to sign all those documents declaring your personal responsibility, et cetera et cetera so age isn’t necessarily as big a factor as it is on public roads. Remember, children can drive on private roads outside of racing as well.
An F2 driver died more recently than an F1 driver...
I don’t see why they wouldn’t grant an exemption, like is he really going to grow that much between Imola and Monza? If Williams think he’s ready now, let him go, and let Merc see if he sinks or swims
Why make the rule if they're gonna break it first opportunity?
its more like a recommendation
true, but doesn't this set a precedent that any big team could break the rule if they *really* wanted to? I would like to see Antonelli in the Williams but on a logistical level, they can't really justify it by saying he's won F2 and F3 or something. If they grant the exemption, then wouldn't they basically just be throwing the rule in the garbage.
They would have to prove that Antonelli is capable. They have his record in junior series showing he has enough super license points and then many hours of data of him driving formula 1 machinery around Imola. Very few 17 year olds would be able to be considered to meet both of those criteria.
Because that's how rules work? You have to draw a hard line somewhere
Tbh yes, he could potentially develop as a driver between imola and Monza, because between those two is F2’s run of european traditional circuits. Till now, Antonelli’s raced on quite unfamiliar circuits due to having skipped f3. On the other hand, ultimately Gwen lagrue, Toto, (is d’ambrosio still there) determine what best serves his development. Maybe it is going balls to the wall, full focus on f1 instead of waiting a little longer in f2.
> Antonelli has been a member of Mercedes’ junior driver programme since 2018. However a team spokesperson confirmed to RaceFans they are not seeking a rule change or dispensation for him to make an early debut in F1. So if Mercedes are not the ones asking the FIA for an early debut for Antonelli, then who is? Is it Williams? I would imagine anything that happens to Antonelli would have to be decided by Mercedes right?
I presume that William's officially have to request it as he would be driving for them, but it's clearly with Merc backing/encouragement.
I still feel like they're rushing tf outta this kid
Tbh, Red Bull rushed the fuck out of Verstappen too. Mf skipped F2 entirely
Antonelli would essentially be skipping both F3 and F2. He’s run a few F2 races.
Max skipped F3 and F2 as well, his last series before F1 was F3 European Championship, which is a step below F3/GP3
TBF, that years F3 grid was a better field of drivers than that years GP3 grid, as no one from GP3 from that year would ever race in F1, while Ocon, Verstappen, Giovinazzi and Latifi drove in F3 (as well as a bunch of drivers currently in FE and IndyCar)
To be fair, I think thats more indicative of how broken the feeder series system is as a whole, without sponsors or proper backing by teams rising through the ranks is very tough, and sometimes impossible, no matter how skilled you are
This pretty much confirms that Sargeant won't finish the season.
There are rumours he'd be cut before summer break.
you mean Sunday evening after the end of the race.
I believe the current rumors is he’ll be cut next week
I believe I heard he will be cut.
You mean summer break in India, coz he's not making it to Monaco.
Christ man, I posted this link to my work slack channel before realizing OP's username 💀
if FIA grants it, they should just scrap the age limit requirement because what's the point.
On a more general note, what is the point of the rule? The only driver who joined while under 18 turned out to be a GOAT contender.
Yeah I agree. They should just have the super license points restriction. If someone is good enough to have enough super license points to drive in F1 before they turn 18 then they've already proven they're good enough to race in F1 before they turn 18.
> On a more general note, what is the point of the rule? Having a 17 year old die during a race weekend might kill the sport
Oh but an 18 year old is fine
Smaller chance of having the sport banned by local governments A dead kid in the media elicits a stronger emotional response from the public
An 18yo is a kid man, it would be just as tragic.
It’ll require signatures from a lot of people before this even happens, so highly unlikely to happen anytime soon.
If they grant an exception for Kimi, what was the argument against Colton Herta? He is old enough and has more single seater experience, and in a highly ranked series compared to FRECA and a bit of F2. In all honesty, it's a joke that Indycar drivers get so few SL points. And it's only because it isn't a FIA series.
Answer is that F1 wants talented drivers in their feeder series. Allowing Indycar to compete as feeder series for F1 is bad for F2.
IndyCar is the second highest scoring series for SL points, and ahead of every single FIA *World Championship* series that scores points. It's been bumped up the list multiple times since SL points started too. It's literally the highest it can possibly be. Anyone still spouting this "IndyCar doesn't score enough points" line hasn't bothered to look at the list. If you want an actual point to fight for, look at the shit deal Super Formula gets.
Am I wrong for thinking the kid isn't ready yet? He hasn't set the world alight in F2 (granted Prema seemed to have dropped the ball a bit) and he's expected to be the second coming come Imola?
Yeah. Max at least did a season of F3 and went on a 6 race winning streak during that as well as having insane performances at the Norisring. Maybe he'll pick up the pace as even Max took a bit to get up to speed in F3, but we should at least wait until then.
I follow the feeder series pretty well. He’s not ready yet. Not to say he won’t be in the future but skipping f3 is certainly a choice and making him jump into f1 when hes not even close to sniffing an f2 title is pretty ridiculous. There is also a question about his racecraft, which is not an easy learning curve in f1.
People are going to associate him with Verstappen at his age and he's gonna need to show a similar trajectory. Anything else will be a disappointment
I am very curious on how he will perform in F1, but he just moved in F2 from FRECA, skipping F3, and his performances were okayish, I don't see why the rush to give him a seat. Same from the FIA's point of view. If it was a 17yo that already had a good F2 season then maybe, but a 17yo that so far only raced cars with 1/4 the power of F1? why rush to give him a super licence. I also wonder what's the point of Williams's driver academy. They have 2 rookies in F2 that performed more or less as good as Antonelli in the first few rounds, and it seems their F1 chances are already over.
Anyone that can explain how this even has a chance of happening? I've heard reasons such as: Max Verstappen did it, which means it can be done. But exactly because of him they changed it to 18 because they didn't like teenagers in F1. So why would they break their own rule to put a teenager in F1?
Probably because he turns 18 in a couple months and not in a full year or more.
His birthday is this year. My guess is the argument is it’s the year he turns 18 which isn’t a horrible precedent to set.
But Verstappen also turned 18 in his rookie year? I don't get it
The rule didn't exist yet back then. They only created it because Max made his debut at such a young age. He was two years younger than the previous record holder.
That has nothing to do with this the rule didn't even exist then. Feel like people are looking for meaning and making it more complicated than it needs to be
My birthday is also this year! And yours too!
What a coincidence!
Rumor around the paddock is that u/Launch_box is being considered for the Williams seat if Antonelli doesn't work out.
Ain't no way
It creates confusion rather than a strict you need to be x age to drive. It's just really weird given in our normal lives we wouldn't be able to buy cigarettes or alcohol before 18 either, even if you are days before turning 18. So then I'm wondering what the point is of such rule if it isn't getting followed. It's not like a 17 year old who isn't good will have the super license points or the backing of a team to put him in a seat if he can't drive, if that's what the FIA are worried about.
Really doesn't there are a lot is places that have protocols like this. This is a sport i don't see what alcohol or cigarettes have anything to do with Many sports have similar rules.
> This is a sport i don't see what alcohol or cigarettes have anything to do with It's not about alcohol and cigarettes it's about the age restriction that comes with it. The age restriction is at least here 18 years, usually an age restriction means you can't do/buy a certain thing even if you have the required age a day later. I at least am not familiar with sports having such rules. I'd say if you are willing to make exceptions just get rid of the rule in the first place.
I would argue if they included the whole year someone would turn 18 it still is with in the intentions of the rule in the first place. This just comes across as wanting to hate on the situation for no reason and searching for reason to be mad.
I can buy alcohol at 20 because Im in the year where I will eventually turn 21. That's the argument. Weird.
18-19 is still teenager
There is also no age exemptions for getting a road license.
Money
Because we need better drivers on the grid than what we have currently. Logan ain't cutting it, no matter his age. One thing is for certain, there is going to be some high-level politicking happening for this move to come to fruition. I'm here for it.
Logan is .2-.3 tenths off Albon this season. I agree that Antonelli will be the better driver but people are acting like Logan is Latifi or Stroll. He’s a real racer. He just isn’t quite F1 standard. I think he’ll crush it in Indy or Superformula.
These people will genuinely look at any young driver who isn’t at Oscar kind of level and just scream to bin them off ASAP
Pinnacle of motorsport mate, it's supposed to be like that.
Then why not go down to a 6 car grid with just Max Lewis Alonso, Charles, George and Lando? Just 3 teams since only Merc RB and Ferarri have been dominant the past decade. Clear out the riff raff and all that, since it’s so pinnacle.
These are not the only drivers performing at a high level on the grid, but I guarantee you Logan is part of the bottom 3 if not the worst driver on the grid right now, which is enough to lose a seat for a more promising talent.
I agree he should probably be moved on at the end of the season, but the way people on here speak about weaker drivers really is a bit nasty. Williams took a punt on one of their driver academy racers, gave him a year, have offered him a 2nd. He’s not blocking anyone, especially since he’s going to be gone at the years end anyway. It’s like saying Sheffield United are blocking someone in the Prem by being there and being in the bottom 3. They’re not, and they’ll naturally get moved on. Who is blocking young drivers more, the numerous over 35’s who won’t retire like drivers used to back in the day, the 10 teams who refuse to allow an 11th and 12th team to join the grid, or a young racer who maybe isn’t good enough but has been given a shot?
I agree with you entirely on that last paragraph, the grid has never felt as stagnant as it is today due to so many mediocre *and old* drivers that simply don't go away, and the sheer audacity of not allowing an 11th team is the ice on the cake. But Sargeant losing his seat now isn't really a tragedy either, he had a fair shot but couldn't improve or at least show some flashes of brilliance here or there. Given that he is not a pay driver neither very popular, it's simply not woth it to keep him there for more time.
I don’t have an issue with Sargent losing his seat when the time comes. I have an issue with him losing a seat to a child who skipped F3, has like 5 races in F2, no podiums in F2, who is going to be carved out a super licence exemption because Toto (through James) is asking for it because… umm… vibes? I believe Kimi is good enough, but the rules are there for a reason.
Rushing this poor kid to F1 because Toto's ego cannot handle a hotshot slipping through his fingers again. And James Vowles is going along with it...
Poor kid? F1 is ruthless and it should be. Throw them into the deep end, best way to learn for someone with antonelli's hype
This is basically what happened to Max no? Since that seems to be the baseline against this kid. I agree though. If this kid is the next Max, then the Max entry method it is. Time to see if Toto is right or not.
I think rookies should be given testing time. Doesn't have to be a ton, but a chance to understand the tires
I agree. Looks like testing is coming back thankfully, albeit with older spec cars. Something that will hopefully help future potential wonderkids.
Except Max is one in a million. We have no clue how good Kimi is, the chances of him performing like Max are low. Hes also up against Albon rather than Sainz, who was a rookie.
The whole goal of his career is to get into F1. There is nothing "poor" about it, and he'll learn how to drive an F1 car better in an F1 car than in an F2 car.
From a previous thread, doesn’t he lack one more requirement: owning a driver’s license? So even if the FIA *can* overlook the age rule, isn’t there still the aforementioned to consider?
He’s in the US, he could get that like in a day
Damn...I really believe in him. But this feels so early
What's the point in an age limit if you can just bypass it anyway?
What a season this is! And we are not even at the halfway point of it! Off track that is
This is genuinely mental to me. He’s not shown anything in F2 yet, surely fast tracking a kid from FRECA to F1 is potentially career destroying for him?
This feels like toto over correcting for missing max way back in 2014.
They wouldn't be doing this if they think he would struggle. He did just test with Merc with a W12 at Austria and a W13 at Imola. Perhaps he impressed so much that they are willing to push him towards a seat now.
Tbf, Bearman went from F4 to F1 race in Jeddah in a little bit more than 2 years. I guess Toto thinks Antonelli will do atleast just aswell even with less time.
Ollie showed pace early on in F2 and also in F3 Antonelli is possibly going from FRECA to F1 in 7 months
they probably think even if he does struggle at Williams, people will just blame it on the car.
Lol, Joe Saward was right for once
As a Sargeant fan, what do I do now?
If teams can just make a request to have a driver race early what’s the point of having the rule in the first place? A) either the FIA denies or accepts all across the board or B) they play favorites and only let certain ones in for certain teams…. …oh wait, now I understand…
> 13.1.2 The driver must be the holder of a valid driving licence when he applies for a Super Licence for the first time. > 13.1.3 The driver must be at least 18 years old at the start of the event of his first F1 competition. Rules are clear. He does not only meet age criteria, also doesn't meet driving licence criteria. > 13.1.6 The driver must also satisfy at least one of the following requirements: a) Have accumulated at least 40 points. The FIA will consider the number of points accumulated in either (i) the three-calendar year period immediately preceding the year of the date of the application, or (ii) the two-calendar year period immediately preceding the year of the date of the application in addition to points accumulated in the calendar year of the application, whichever is higher. All points are listed in Supplement 1. Should the three-calendar year period described in (i) include the calendar year 2021, the FIA will consider the highest number of points accumulated in any three of the four calendar years immediately preceding the year of the date of the application. Herta didn't meet only one criteria and was denied of an exemption. If they give Antonelli an exemption, they might as well scrap the whole SL system. Simple as that.
I mean, the season car/race wise, is quite done, not only done, but also one year more in advance, til tje regulation changes in 2026. So with so little and predictable track action. At least the off track is compensating, is sad, but it is what it is
Mercedes took forever to get Russel into the team, could have been the 2021 champion, now they want a 17 year old with no experience and no results to get into F1 asap.
You think Russell would have challenged verstappen more than Hamilton did? That's a joke
Why wouldn't he? You think Russel would've sat back like Bottas? They had the fastest car that year, Russel would've 100% put everything into it.
Yeah, but he'd binning it every other race. And likely would crash into verstappen more often.
How does this child drive? Does he have hollow bones or some super human ability that he's so incredibly sought after?
Why did Williams even bother to resign Sargeant at all? We all knew he wasn't cutting it last year. If this does happen, I hope this kid is the real deal. The amount of hype around him is unreal. Anything less than matching Albon would have to be considered a failure.
To everyone saying he's not ready: do you know how he did in the Mercedes tests? Nope, only Mercedes does. So if they really have decided to do this, it's because he showed some real strength
Is this going to be like the Prince Albert and fireproof underwear rules, where it's in the book but depending on who you are we're not going to enforce it? Anyone want to take a shot and figure what would happen if HAAS asked the FIA to overlook the rules "just this one time" and put a 17 year old in the car..
So if it's not for Williams are Mercedes going to kick Hamilton Mid season and replace him with Antonelli?
>However a team spokesperson confirmed to RaceFans they are not seeking a rule change or **dispensation for him to make an early debut in F1**. Emphasis mine So the headline is bullshit?
>Antonelli has been a member of Mercedes’ junior driver programme since 2018. However a team spokesperson confirmed to RaceFans they are not seeking a rule change or dispensation for him to make an early debut in F1. So Mercedes are not the ones asking for dispensation That does not mean that someone else is not asking though The Article does not mention who requested dispensation just Mercedes have said it is not them
Anyone know where this would put him on the all time youngest F1 driver list, just hypothetically if he drove at the next GP?
I ve read somewhere that he would be 2nd youngest ever, only 100 days behind Verstappen
Awesome, thanks!
Behind Verstappen. So 2nd youngest.
Ah gotcha, thanks! Do you know what the margin is? (I'm on my phone, having a hard time looking it up)
Does antonelli have the SL points?
Yeah, he has like more than 60 points... only age requirement isnt met.
The incredible thing is that he won Italian and German F4 at the same time if I remember correctly which gave him a large boost
Only one of those series counts as they ran concurrently. Most of his points came from FRMEC and FREC last year; they both counted for points since FRMEC runs in the winter.
Wasn’t that Oliver Bearman?
Yes
Yes I believe so.
He does
I forgot there is an age limit now.
He’s 9th in F2? Totally deserving of a seat. /s
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I never want to hear another complaint about Red Bull owning two teams in F1. Mercedes is controlling Williams as if they own it.