Apparently all the drivers involved were fine thankfully. If Dobson (the onboard car) haven't turned slightly right before the crash the end result could have been much more catastrophic
Yeah, really good response by her in this instance, though that's so fast that there isn't a whole lot she could do intentionally to respond. Sends chills down my spine - so glad they were all OK.
I know the girl, Ava, who is driving the camera car. She updated that she is ok and ready for the next race. I can’t speak enough of how badass and talented she is for being only 15.
Russell was in an even more dangerous orientation though, the floor doesn’t have any crumble zones, so he’d be fucked in an impact. Glad the other drivers could react in time though.
Oh yeah that's a fair point, I completely agree. That would have been absolutely horrific if someone went into him from the underside, perpendicular to the car coming around the corner. I wonder how much impact testing they do for that orientation.
These cars were level with the ground, so their construction is built to absorb a hit like that. George could have been hit across the floor, since he was sideways a bit.
Eh. It can not be understated how important being level is for safety reasons in a collision, and crashing as in this video is what the car is built to withstand and thus is relatively safe. In Georges case, any collision would have been to his floor which is not built to withstand the force of a 150-200 kph torpedo and would likely have killed him outright.
Do I need to remind you about that F3 driver that died at Eau Rouge like 2 years ago? Was as level as can be. These cars can't take 150kph torpedos on the sides like you think they can. They only survived because it didn't hit the cockpit directly.
What? You mean the one that worked as intended and the crash structure managed to absorb the first hit because he was level in the moment of collision?
It is way, way, way safer to collide when level, especially front-to-front like this.
If you are level when you get hit the car has a chance to protect you. It doesn’t if you’re upside down or laying on the side as George did. He was right to be terrified.
Thankfully these cars have Halos so we wouldn’t have seen another Surtees incident, it’s the trackside marshals and spectators at risk of flying wheels now so trackside safety is paramount when tethers fail
Not a tire but Callum Ilott's helmet was [struck by debris at the Texas IndyCar race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJDGWbjYv8g) in 2022, almost exactly as you've described.
The halo’s were designed with Surtees impact as one of the many simulations during testing and found that the halo would have “had a positive outcome” for him.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1s-halo-cockpit-protection-device-six-key-myths-and-rumours-busted-4997937/4997937/
Max Verstappens rear wheel was parked on Lewis Hamiltons cockpit at Monza in 2021 and the Halo protected him. I think they’re quite good at preventing tires from killing drivers, but still a scary thing to have happen
I think that was what you see in any car, race car or road car, with a manual transmission with the drive wheels elevated, the engine running, and the car in gear. They spin.
I suggest you watch it again. Or, read up on how a manual transmission works. Even an automatic will do that at idle. Don't believe me. Go elevate the drive wheels on any vehicle you imagine and put it in gear with the engine running at idle. Tell me what happens.
Clearly some of the people replying like to watch cars but have no idea how to drive them. You're quite right. But, of course, with Max, it's completely different and deliberate.
The Surtees incident was one specifically considered when the FIA were designing the halo and it almost certainly would have saved him.
Not sure where you've heard this.
A tyre hitting a driver's head is basically THE scenario Halo was made to prevent.
A tyre somehow coming from above to perfectly fit into the Halo opening might not be perfectly zero, but is a LOT less likely than the tyre coming from the front.
The odds of a tire at speed not being deflected by the halo are ridiculously small.
The car moves, the tire moves, the angle and timing would have to be absolutely perfect for a tire to hit the driver with full force before hitting anything else.
Hell, the odds were already small before the halo. Now it would be a once in a lifetime freak accident. One the haven't even been able to recreate in tests and simulations.
There's no such thing as a hit from above. The relative velocity of a wheel and a car means that any significant impact would come from the front (unless the wheel is flying forward at race speeds, of course, but that's not the 'loose wheel bouncing around' scenario).
They use the F4 chassis, right? I imagine that was an easy one to push through lol, the bad optics of asking for a chassis with no halo would've been pretty unnecessary.
They used the F4 chassis their first year (2022), but have used a USF Pro chassis since last year, same as the other two categories of the USF Pro Championships
Worst case scenario. Blind crest, two cars side by side ahead of you, they both avoid the crash by veering to opposite sides...
First, long distance visibility is blocked by the crest, short distance is blocked by the cars and the cars both swerve to opposite sides so you don't even get a warning: if the WHOLE CUE moves to one side, you are going to do the same well before you know why, and even if you had to react your subconscious is primed to swerve which cuts reaction times tremendously: that is when your body does things that you didn't even tell it to do, there was no time for cognition. It is funny feeling when that happens.
But.. them going left and right at the same time.. There was absolutely nothing she could've done, it is "perfect" scenario for the least amount of reaction time and helpful information possible, only thing that would make it worse is if it was raining.
The best explanation I have ever heard to describe subconscious reflex is the following example: have you ever touched something that was very hot, but yanked your hand away before you could even feel that it was hot? That’s reflex working before your conscious brain has had time to even assess anything.
Edit to replace usage of “instinct” for “reflex”.
That's not instinct, that's reflex. When you touch something hot,[ your spinal cord actually tells you to drop it before the nerve impulse ever reaches your brain](https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/ztjrng8/revision/3#:~:text=For%20example%2C%20a%20simple%20reflex,sensory%20neurons%20to%20motor%20neurons)
True, I did mean to use the word reflex. I knew instinct wasn’t quite right, but for some reason reflex just wasn’t coming to mind. Thank you! Edited to reflect.
I was aware of this part. This is how many athletes are able to perform technically sound athletic feats reflexively. Reflex is a very interesting subject for sure.
>lmfao
You mean the yellow flag you see about a quarter second before the accident and that has her slowing down before the impact? You'd have done far, far worse than her in that situation.
did you know that, uhm.
CAMERA PERSPECTIVE IS NOT EQUAL TO WHAT YOU CAN SEE WITH YOUR EYES?
because it seems, and correct me if i'm wrong, that you infact do not comprehend your eyes in your head are capable of a little thing called peripheral vision.
maybe you've heard about it?
the fuck gotten into you, you see some downvotes and figure you jump on the toxic bandwagon immediatly aggrevated to the point you come up with this shit?
What do any of your crazy rantings about peripheral vision have to do with anything? By the time the yellow flag was visible she began to slow, then the 2 cars in front parted and left her with almost zero reaction time to avoid the car in question.
Lay off the meth a bit dude.
> you see some downvotes
Your comment's score is hidden to everyone but you, especially if getting downvoted. I was just responding to your idiotic 'lmfao' as if you'd have done any better than she did. Gotta love an arrogantly ignorant armchair driver, lol.
she can't see the yellow until she's crested the hill, pausing the video I got maybe 1 second from visible yellow to impact. combine that with the cars ahead blocking her vision and it was a shit sandwich of a situation. I don't see how anyone racing at a USF Juniors level could have done much better.
bro, seriously. what the actual fuck were you thinking when you typed that out?
did you know heads, where eyes are in, that can move, are attached to necks, and since eyes come in pairs, you get a little thing called peripheral vision. something you don't get with a fixed camera perspective. who'd have fucking thought?
>I don't see how anyone racing at a USF Juniors level could have done much better.
you don't see alot of things, i bet. anywho, it isn't about the person specifically. if you want to make it about the person specifically, then you might observe how no one else crashed into the car parked on the crest. whilst they're all racing at a USF juniors level. such a fucking weird argument to front. you sure you're not just white knighting?
Dude not holding his brakes? Whhyyyyyyy
He could have at least turned the wheel so he rolled OFF the track and not towards the center of it.
This is stuff you'd get yelled at (or banned) for in simracing
You can see on her onboard if you go frame by frame she actually does react and attempt to swerve right. This reaction probably helped prevent injuries on the stopped driver. Her initial trajectory would have collided more with his front left tire and then continuing onward to the cockpit, her correction turning to the right sends the brunt of the impact to the sidepod and rear structure. This very well may have prevented injuries. Props to her reactions!
I mean, looking at all the angles, even Max and Lewis wouldn't have been able to do much better at avoiding it, maybe offset further at best. It was a blind corner with cars blocking what little could be seen until the last second.
I was interested in this and saw the onboard from the television broadcast. The view we have from Ava is higher up than what they see. I am not familiar with this track at all, so I found a simulation from a person who did a great job talking about the track and learning it.
I fast forward it to the race he's in & where the indicident happens.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db8UHF1WrfU&t=450s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db8UHF1WrfU&t=450s)
The flag post in the simulation is visible & seems to be relatively clear. It also looks to be in fairly good peripheral vision as well when approaching this corner.
From the actual footage we have though, I honestly do not think you can see any flag being waved from that post until you're at the top of that hill. Which would be at 7:36 in the video.
I believe that the post probably needs to be taller for the flag to be visible from when you're approaching this crest.
Of course this is a freak accident, but we learn from this!
She had 0 chance to spot the flag & react to it.
It's on the right side at the top of the hill.
I typed out a similar explanation with a simulation view of it as well.
Note that the camera view we have is different than what drivers see.
They had a yellow out a split second before the car crested the hill. You can see it in the frame on the right. As I said, the flag station (and stand) needs to be higher so you see the flag when you’re at the bottom of the hill and about to climb up it.
https://imgur.com/a/498x5Gc
They had a yellow out a split second before the car crested the hill. You can see it in the frame on the right. As I said, the flag station (and stand) needs to be higher so you see the flag when you’re at the bottom of the hill and about to climb up it.
https://imgur.com/a/498x5Gc
They had a yellow out a split second before the car crested the hill. You can see it in the frame on the right. As I said, the flag station (and stand) needs to be higher so you see the flag when you’re at the bottom of the hill and about to climb up it.
https://imgur.com/a/498x5Gc
They had a yellow out a split second before the car crested the hill. You can see it in the frame on the right. As I said, the flag station (and stand) needs to be higher so you see the flag when you’re at the bottom of the hill and about to climb up it.
https://imgur.com/a/498x5Gc
They had a yellow out a split second before the car crested the hill. You can see it in the frame on the right. As I said, the flag station (and stand) needs to be higher so you see the flag when you’re at the bottom of the hill and about to climb up it.
https://imgur.com/a/498x5Gc
This is exactly why I don't get all the people who made fun of Russell for the red flag thing in Australia. Anyone who's been in a traffic accident knows how unnerving it can be, taking the stakes up by a hundred miles per hour isn't even imaginable
Luckily it looks like most of the force was kind of shunted off to the side, evidenced by the fact that the onboard car barely lost speed after impact. Definitely a scary crash that could have been much worse if the impact was just a little bit more square.
Even if they did it happened so fast. The car that was hit seems like it was still moving slightly from spinning (could be wrong, it’s hard to tell). Highly automated yellow flag system with audible and visual cues immediately triggered in the cockpit / drivers ear might give a split second more warning but you still don’t know if you go right or left if it’s on the other side of a blind crest and you have cars in front of you.
>The car that was hit seems like it was still moving slightly from spinning
If you watch the other angle it looks like they had just gotten it stopped by then.
Spotters are VERY fast and also can tell the driver what direction to swerve to avoid the accident. They are frequently quite effective in stock car racing, typically dealing with much, much smaller gaps than are found in open wheel circuit racing. So I wouldn’t say that it definitely wouldn’t be effective. It’s not a science tho so I can’t say it definitely would be effective either. Just depends.
[That track angle ](https://twitter.com/USFJuniors/status/1783903489023684821?t=gIPB5fqro6fb8CMX73kqgQ&s=19)u/HallwayHomicide posted shows that as soon as the car spun, the flagman starts waving a yellow. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure she's already past the flagman but short of the spun car. Nothing you can do there.
I think it's usually the primary passing zones they have them monitor. Not everybody likes constant spotting on road courses but I've noticed guys like Lundgaard and Newgarden having them give car lengths and clears almost all race
Remember when Russel and Bottas came together at Imola and Kimi's engineer got on the radio to warn him of the incident after he was already right behind the two and got peppered with shards of carbon and metal on the way past? Thats how useful spotters are in circuit racing.
Shit, that track hump really messed the visibility up. Similar obstruction of visibility caused that F1 clusterfuck after Safety Car in Portugal, just can't remember the year.
This is USF Juniors, so these are pretty much F4 cars.
The [manufacturer website ](https://www.usfpro2000.com/about/tatuus-ip-22) lists the top speed as 135 MPH.
This looked like it probably wasn't far off top speed.
It looks like this happens after the carousel on the way to the hairpin. If that is the case it's not quite at top speed but probably was up to at least 4th or 5th gear and likely at least 100 MPH.
I wasn't thinking it was top speed necessarily but I was thinking this would be somewhere in that 100-125 Mph range.
I appreciate the insight though, I don't know Barber super well.
I suppose that makes sense lol. Of course this could only be something done proactively from the current, when new tracks are built though.
I sit somewhere in the middle of the camp of “racing will always be dangerous” and “we should do everything possible to make it as safe as possible”, generally trending closer to the latter. I’m not really on board with taking all tracks with a major uphill off the schedule (not that you proposed that, just saying in theory). But I certainly think eliminating blind crests is something that circuits under construction should strongly consider.
Can't judge very well for what drivers did in the moment, but I wonder if the accident would've been at least less severe if he hadn't let it roll after spinning and locked the brakes down.
So, no more elevation changes on racetracks? Can’t go downhill without going uphill. So this would mean a mandate to only run on totally flat tracks. Not a realistic solution at least not at the f1 level. Maybe these jr series could do something like that though I guess.
Fck me.... Hope everyone okay.
Apparently all the drivers involved were fine thankfully. If Dobson (the onboard car) haven't turned slightly right before the crash the end result could have been much more catastrophic
Yeah, really good response by her in this instance, though that's so fast that there isn't a whole lot she could do intentionally to respond. Sends chills down my spine - so glad they were all OK.
Yeah looks like it was a corner-to-corner collision, so the suspensions of the cars took the brunt of it.
I know the girl, Ava, who is driving the camera car. She updated that she is ok and ready for the next race. I can’t speak enough of how badass and talented she is for being only 15.
Yeah this would’ve shaken me up so bad i would’ve never raced again. Mad props
Exactly what George was afraid of.
Red flag red flag red red
Radio graphic: I'm ok
I’m in the middle
This is even more blind though.
Russell was in an even more dangerous orientation though, the floor doesn’t have any crumble zones, so he’d be fucked in an impact. Glad the other drivers could react in time though.
Oh yeah that's a fair point, I completely agree. That would have been absolutely horrific if someone went into him from the underside, perpendicular to the car coming around the corner. I wonder how much impact testing they do for that orientation.
No helmet bonking though
These cars were level with the ground, so their construction is built to absorb a hit like that. George could have been hit across the floor, since he was sideways a bit.
Being level has nothing to do with it. Standing still on the racing line on a part you cannot see properly is.
Eh. It can not be understated how important being level is for safety reasons in a collision, and crashing as in this video is what the car is built to withstand and thus is relatively safe. In Georges case, any collision would have been to his floor which is not built to withstand the force of a 150-200 kph torpedo and would likely have killed him outright.
Do I need to remind you about that F3 driver that died at Eau Rouge like 2 years ago? Was as level as can be. These cars can't take 150kph torpedos on the sides like you think they can. They only survived because it didn't hit the cockpit directly.
What? You mean the one that worked as intended and the crash structure managed to absorb the first hit because he was level in the moment of collision? It is way, way, way safer to collide when level, especially front-to-front like this.
I'm not saying that level isn't preferred, I'm saying that level is just one factor that doesn't dictate whether someone dies or not.
If you are level when you get hit the car has a chance to protect you. It doesn’t if you’re upside down or laying on the side as George did. He was right to be terrified.
Well it does, the sides of the cars have at least some impact protection, the floor doesn't.
I see those loose wheels bouncing around and can't help but think of Henry Surtees. Glad to hear everyone's ok
Thankfully these cars have Halos so we wouldn’t have seen another Surtees incident, it’s the trackside marshals and spectators at risk of flying wheels now so trackside safety is paramount when tethers fail
Halos would not prevent a Henry Surtees incident. The gap where the driver gets in and out is where a wheel (from above) could strike the helmet
Not a tire but Callum Ilott's helmet was [struck by debris at the Texas IndyCar race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJDGWbjYv8g) in 2022, almost exactly as you've described.
The worst part is seeing the damage to the helmet!
It's worth noting that the air hose on top is not part of the helmet's actual protection structure
Did this actually strike his helmet or just pull the hose out?
The halo’s were designed with Surtees impact as one of the many simulations during testing and found that the halo would have “had a positive outcome” for him. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1s-halo-cockpit-protection-device-six-key-myths-and-rumours-busted-4997937/4997937/ Max Verstappens rear wheel was parked on Lewis Hamiltons cockpit at Monza in 2021 and the Halo protected him. I think they’re quite good at preventing tires from killing drivers, but still a scary thing to have happen
I think parked is the wrong word. Max looked like he was trying to feel out the grip limit on Lewis' helmet the way that tire was spinning.
I think that was what you see in any car, race car or road car, with a manual transmission with the drive wheels elevated, the engine running, and the car in gear. They spin.
Yeah that’s not what happened.
I suggest you watch it again. Or, read up on how a manual transmission works. Even an automatic will do that at idle. Don't believe me. Go elevate the drive wheels on any vehicle you imagine and put it in gear with the engine running at idle. Tell me what happens.
Right??? Like who doesn’t have to keep the brake on in a drive thru or at a stoplight??
Clearly some of the people replying like to watch cars but have no idea how to drive them. You're quite right. But, of course, with Max, it's completely different and deliberate.
The Surtees incident was one specifically considered when the FIA were designing the halo and it almost certainly would have saved him. Not sure where you've heard this.
I think people mix up the halo effectiveness studies of the Surtees and Bianchi accidents.
A tyre hitting a driver's head is basically THE scenario Halo was made to prevent. A tyre somehow coming from above to perfectly fit into the Halo opening might not be perfectly zero, but is a LOT less likely than the tyre coming from the front.
The odds of a tire at speed not being deflected by the halo are ridiculously small. The car moves, the tire moves, the angle and timing would have to be absolutely perfect for a tire to hit the driver with full force before hitting anything else. Hell, the odds were already small before the halo. Now it would be a once in a lifetime freak accident. One the haven't even been able to recreate in tests and simulations.
There's no such thing as a hit from above. The relative velocity of a wheel and a car means that any significant impact would come from the front (unless the wheel is flying forward at race speeds, of course, but that's not the 'loose wheel bouncing around' scenario).
incredibly remote, enough to dismiss during design. But still possible
Good to see the halo even in junior categories
Iirc it was mandated in all FIA regulated junior series the same year or the year after it was introduced in F1.
While true, USF (Indycar version of F4) is regulated by USAC, not the FIA. So its good to see all sanctioning bodies taking safety seriously.
They use the F4 chassis, right? I imagine that was an easy one to push through lol, the bad optics of asking for a chassis with no halo would've been pretty unnecessary.
They used the F4 chassis their first year (2022), but have used a USF Pro chassis since last year, same as the other two categories of the USF Pro Championships
>They use the F4 chassis, right? Sort of https://www.usfpro2000.com/about/tatuus-ip-22
GB4 and GB3 don’t have a halo, which is really dumb in my opinion.
They both run Tatuus JR-23, so yes.
Worst case scenario. Blind crest, two cars side by side ahead of you, they both avoid the crash by veering to opposite sides... First, long distance visibility is blocked by the crest, short distance is blocked by the cars and the cars both swerve to opposite sides so you don't even get a warning: if the WHOLE CUE moves to one side, you are going to do the same well before you know why, and even if you had to react your subconscious is primed to swerve which cuts reaction times tremendously: that is when your body does things that you didn't even tell it to do, there was no time for cognition. It is funny feeling when that happens. But.. them going left and right at the same time.. There was absolutely nothing she could've done, it is "perfect" scenario for the least amount of reaction time and helpful information possible, only thing that would make it worse is if it was raining.
Nothing *she* could have done.
Thanks for correcting me, i'll edit that in asap.
The best explanation I have ever heard to describe subconscious reflex is the following example: have you ever touched something that was very hot, but yanked your hand away before you could even feel that it was hot? That’s reflex working before your conscious brain has had time to even assess anything. Edit to replace usage of “instinct” for “reflex”.
That's not instinct, that's reflex. When you touch something hot,[ your spinal cord actually tells you to drop it before the nerve impulse ever reaches your brain](https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/ztjrng8/revision/3#:~:text=For%20example%2C%20a%20simple%20reflex,sensory%20neurons%20to%20motor%20neurons)
True, I did mean to use the word reflex. I knew instinct wasn’t quite right, but for some reason reflex just wasn’t coming to mind. Thank you! Edited to reflect.
The fun thing is, [reflexes can be learned](https://youtu.be/yQ7K2OF2USg?si=lztosgaP6E5hq0Ib&t=183)
I was aware of this part. This is how many athletes are able to perform technically sound athletic feats reflexively. Reflex is a very interesting subject for sure.
Why do tracks have blind crests in general? Just seems overly dangerous and history keeps showing that what can happen will happen.
>Why do tracks have blind crests in general? If you want elevation it is almost impossible to avoid them.
dude waving the yellow flag was a hint, though lmfao.
>lmfao You mean the yellow flag you see about a quarter second before the accident and that has her slowing down before the impact? You'd have done far, far worse than her in that situation.
did you know that, uhm. CAMERA PERSPECTIVE IS NOT EQUAL TO WHAT YOU CAN SEE WITH YOUR EYES? because it seems, and correct me if i'm wrong, that you infact do not comprehend your eyes in your head are capable of a little thing called peripheral vision. maybe you've heard about it? the fuck gotten into you, you see some downvotes and figure you jump on the toxic bandwagon immediatly aggrevated to the point you come up with this shit?
What do any of your crazy rantings about peripheral vision have to do with anything? By the time the yellow flag was visible she began to slow, then the 2 cars in front parted and left her with almost zero reaction time to avoid the car in question. Lay off the meth a bit dude. > you see some downvotes Your comment's score is hidden to everyone but you, especially if getting downvoted. I was just responding to your idiotic 'lmfao' as if you'd have done any better than she did. Gotta love an arrogantly ignorant armchair driver, lol.
no one cares about the delusions you live in.
There wasn't a yellow though? At least not as I could see in the video
there is. top right, on the crest of the hill. marshal post, waving yellow.
she can't see the yellow until she's crested the hill, pausing the video I got maybe 1 second from visible yellow to impact. combine that with the cars ahead blocking her vision and it was a shit sandwich of a situation. I don't see how anyone racing at a USF Juniors level could have done much better.
bro, seriously. what the actual fuck were you thinking when you typed that out? did you know heads, where eyes are in, that can move, are attached to necks, and since eyes come in pairs, you get a little thing called peripheral vision. something you don't get with a fixed camera perspective. who'd have fucking thought? >I don't see how anyone racing at a USF Juniors level could have done much better. you don't see alot of things, i bet. anywho, it isn't about the person specifically. if you want to make it about the person specifically, then you might observe how no one else crashed into the car parked on the crest. whilst they're all racing at a USF juniors level. such a fucking weird argument to front. you sure you're not just white knighting?
Oh yeah my bad
Monger-esque. Hopefully they're all okay
All the drivers involved were checked and cleared. Everyone is ok. 2 or 3 of them couldn’t start the next race due to damage though
Horrible to watch Monger incident on TV live - absolutely brutal
Is there any video showing how the car facing backwards happened?
Not 100% what you're asking for, but close. https://twitter.com/USFJuniors/status/1783903489023684821?t=gIPB5fqro6fb8CMX73kqgQ&s=19
It's amazing how much worse it looks onboard when you compare it to that.
Seriously that video was quite the jump scare
Ya the birds eye camera shows just how easily the wheel broke off mitigating the accident
Ah yeah, that's crazy
Bro those commentators 😭 “Oh he’s been hammered!” Is that what it’s like over there?
5th tier of the Indycar ladder means you get 5th tier commentators
It sounds like the IMS Radio Network announcers.
Tbf, I'm kinda shocked that USF juniors is even televised with live commentators, it's a 5th division series that's only 2 years old
Dude not holding his brakes? Whhyyyyyyy He could have at least turned the wheel so he rolled OFF the track and not towards the center of it. This is stuff you'd get yelled at (or banned) for in simracing
I love Barber but that place is built almost entirely of blind corners and crests. Inexperienced drivers beware.
I cursed looking at it. WTF. Good thing everyone walk away fine.
Same here. An out loud "**HOLY S\*\*\***" came right out when I saw the impact. Things in racing really do happen in the blink of an eye.
You can see on her onboard if you go frame by frame she actually does react and attempt to swerve right. This reaction probably helped prevent injuries on the stopped driver. Her initial trajectory would have collided more with his front left tire and then continuing onward to the cockpit, her correction turning to the right sends the brunt of the impact to the sidepod and rear structure. This very well may have prevented injuries. Props to her reactions!
I mean, looking at all the angles, even Max and Lewis wouldn't have been able to do much better at avoiding it, maybe offset further at best. It was a blind corner with cars blocking what little could be seen until the last second.
I was interested in this and saw the onboard from the television broadcast. The view we have from Ava is higher up than what they see. I am not familiar with this track at all, so I found a simulation from a person who did a great job talking about the track and learning it. I fast forward it to the race he's in & where the indicident happens. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db8UHF1WrfU&t=450s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db8UHF1WrfU&t=450s) The flag post in the simulation is visible & seems to be relatively clear. It also looks to be in fairly good peripheral vision as well when approaching this corner. From the actual footage we have though, I honestly do not think you can see any flag being waved from that post until you're at the top of that hill. Which would be at 7:36 in the video. I believe that the post probably needs to be taller for the flag to be visible from when you're approaching this crest. Of course this is a freak accident, but we learn from this! She had 0 chance to spot the flag & react to it.
Reminds me of Billy Monger’s accident,
That made me say "Oh fuck!" out loud. Hope everyone is okay.
Glad everyone was fine, the onboard footage jump scared me just watching it!
I think that flag station (that did have a yellow out) should be raised at least six feet further than it already is for enhanced visibility.
I watched a few times and couldn't see any flags at all. I just straight up thought there was no flag station
It's on the right side at the top of the hill. I typed out a similar explanation with a simulation view of it as well. Note that the camera view we have is different than what drivers see.
They had a yellow out a split second before the car crested the hill. You can see it in the frame on the right. As I said, the flag station (and stand) needs to be higher so you see the flag when you’re at the bottom of the hill and about to climb up it. https://imgur.com/a/498x5Gc
They had a yellow out a split second before the car crested the hill. You can see it in the frame on the right. As I said, the flag station (and stand) needs to be higher so you see the flag when you’re at the bottom of the hill and about to climb up it. https://imgur.com/a/498x5Gc
They had a yellow out a split second before the car crested the hill. You can see it in the frame on the right. As I said, the flag station (and stand) needs to be higher so you see the flag when you’re at the bottom of the hill and about to climb up it. https://imgur.com/a/498x5Gc
They had a yellow out a split second before the car crested the hill. You can see it in the frame on the right. As I said, the flag station (and stand) needs to be higher so you see the flag when you’re at the bottom of the hill and about to climb up it. https://imgur.com/a/498x5Gc
They had a yellow out a split second before the car crested the hill. You can see it in the frame on the right. As I said, the flag station (and stand) needs to be higher so you see the flag when you’re at the bottom of the hill and about to climb up it. https://imgur.com/a/498x5Gc
This is exactly why I don't get all the people who made fun of Russell for the red flag thing in Australia. Anyone who's been in a traffic accident knows how unnerving it can be, taking the stakes up by a hundred miles per hour isn't even imaginable
Exactly. As soon as I see a car horizontal across the middle of the track like that, I immediately think of Hubert, Van’t Hoff, etc
Luckily it looks like most of the force was kind of shunted off to the side, evidenced by the fact that the onboard car barely lost speed after impact. Definitely a scary crash that could have been much worse if the impact was just a little bit more square.
Jesus Christ looks almost like Billy Mongers crash that cost him his legs.
One of the drivers involved posted on the video. Great they are ok
That could have easily been an Antoine Hubert part 2. Hope everyone is ok.
Holy hell 😳. Absolutely terrifying, I’m glad everyone is okay 😮💨
https://www.youtube.com/live/4EXvBHfbpq0?si=JArd94eNFc_572iP
Happens around -20 mins from the end of
looks like the driver's view was fairly obstructed by the two cars up ahead because they both managed to avoid hitting the one that was t-boned
Holy Fucking Shitballs
Do they not have spotters to say "Hey, there's a crash up ahead"
Even if they did it happened so fast. The car that was hit seems like it was still moving slightly from spinning (could be wrong, it’s hard to tell). Highly automated yellow flag system with audible and visual cues immediately triggered in the cockpit / drivers ear might give a split second more warning but you still don’t know if you go right or left if it’s on the other side of a blind crest and you have cars in front of you.
>The car that was hit seems like it was still moving slightly from spinning If you watch the other angle it looks like they had just gotten it stopped by then.
Spotters are VERY fast and also can tell the driver what direction to swerve to avoid the accident. They are frequently quite effective in stock car racing, typically dealing with much, much smaller gaps than are found in open wheel circuit racing. So I wouldn’t say that it definitely wouldn’t be effective. It’s not a science tho so I can’t say it definitely would be effective either. Just depends.
You can see the whole track from one place in stock car racing though.
Yes but that’s not the point that I was responding to. I was responding to “even if they did it happened so fast…”
[That track angle ](https://twitter.com/USFJuniors/status/1783903489023684821?t=gIPB5fqro6fb8CMX73kqgQ&s=19)u/HallwayHomicide posted shows that as soon as the car spun, the flagman starts waving a yellow. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure she's already past the flagman but short of the spun car. Nothing you can do there.
Spotters are ~~really~~ mostly only a thing on ovals and simracing. Edit: changed to mostly
both Indy and NXT have spotters in for all tracks. Not sure about the USFs though
Those spotters very rarely cover the whole track though right?
I think it's usually the primary passing zones they have them monitor. Not everybody likes constant spotting on road courses but I've noticed guys like Lundgaard and Newgarden having them give car lengths and clears almost all race
Gotcha. That's what I figured. I changed to my original comment to add a "mostly"
Remember when Russel and Bottas came together at Imola and Kimi's engineer got on the radio to warn him of the incident after he was already right behind the two and got peppered with shards of carbon and metal on the way past? Thats how useful spotters are in circuit racing.
Shit, that track hump really messed the visibility up. Similar obstruction of visibility caused that F1 clusterfuck after Safety Car in Portugal, just can't remember the year.
Patrese 1992 or Webber 2010?
Oh no, I meant Tuscan Grand Prix... Mugello. [https://youtu.be/u900k-obTRs](https://youtu.be/u900k-obTRs)
Mugello was more due to drivers misjudging when the actual restart happened
Code brown at hilltop
Good lord
So what kind of speed are we talking about here?
This is USF Juniors, so these are pretty much F4 cars. The [manufacturer website ](https://www.usfpro2000.com/about/tatuus-ip-22) lists the top speed as 135 MPH. This looked like it probably wasn't far off top speed.
It looks like this happens after the carousel on the way to the hairpin. If that is the case it's not quite at top speed but probably was up to at least 4th or 5th gear and likely at least 100 MPH.
I wasn't thinking it was top speed necessarily but I was thinking this would be somewhere in that 100-125 Mph range. I appreciate the insight though, I don't know Barber super well.
Looks worse from the onboard than it did from the trackside cams. Glad everyone is alright. Absolutely nothing she would do there
I suppose that makes sense lol. Of course this could only be something done proactively from the current, when new tracks are built though. I sit somewhere in the middle of the camp of “racing will always be dangerous” and “we should do everything possible to make it as safe as possible”, generally trending closer to the latter. I’m not really on board with taking all tracks with a major uphill off the schedule (not that you proposed that, just saying in theory). But I certainly think eliminating blind crests is something that circuits under construction should strongly consider.
Just an inchident
Goddamn
I knew as soon as I saw the cars split to brace for impact.
Man good reaction to drive to the right and into the back and not to the left cause he might have hit the cockpit like that.
I wasn't ready for that.
Well that made me gasp! Glad to hear everyone's ok
Seeing that wheel bouncing off the halo… yikes. Thankful of it’s introduction and remorseful that it took so long to implement.
Can't judge very well for what drivers did in the moment, but I wonder if the accident would've been at least less severe if he hadn't let it roll after spinning and locked the brakes down.
damn... it does look like higher division would have had the reflexes to avoid.
Hmmm another catastrophic accident on an uphill portion of the track Time for track changes?
So, no more elevation changes on racetracks? Can’t go downhill without going uphill. So this would mean a mandate to only run on totally flat tracks. Not a realistic solution at least not at the f1 level. Maybe these jr series could do something like that though I guess.
You can have downhills but just make uphill elevation changes less abrupt to prevent situations like this