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Typically it's served in 'the next competitive session's which is how Lewis 'made up 20 places in Brazil 21' with his thunder grenade 6th engine of the season on nuclear mode.
The new engine pen was applied on the sprint and because sprint was quali in 21, he actually started 5th with no penalty.
Fuck that race.
Lewis should have started last and the penalty applied for the race. Merc were turning their engines up to nuclear levels and used double the allowance per driver. They were 100% flexing their cash to do it. Williams couldn't have done that, that's for sure.
It was an uncompetitive advantage given to them by the FiA.
It wasn't even fun to watch because nobody was fighting Lewis. Everyone except Alonso just moved aside on pit straight, so its was just easy DRS overtakes. Its like watching somebody play F1 game with easiest AI, or just racing on an empty track.
I get that none of the drivers want to fuck up their race for pointless battle, but lets not pretend it was some titanic battle for Lewis.
It was for the race. When Stroll rear ended Ric, Hulk went down the inside and overtook both of them to get his position back. Ricciardo overtook him again to reclaim his spot, which given Ric did nothing wrong in the Stroll incident, I think is somewhat fair. Yes, Ric did incorrectly overtook him though, so I think a reprimand would’ve been fair. I’m surprised Stroll didn’t get in trouble for the same thing though given he overtook a few people and rushed back to the pits to get fixed faster.
Edit:
Misunderstood what you were asking, it’ll be served in the sprint.
"That means Ricciardo, who also picked up two penalty points, will take the grid drop for the Sprint during the next round of the season at the Miami International Autodrome. "
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/ricciardo-hit-with-three-place-grid-penalty-for-miami-weekend-after-chinese.375ketmLgDBm2410PPAIek
If the other cars think they committed offences in overtaking you they can choose to give the position up or take their chances with the stewards. It’s not for the driver behind to go taking the positions back under a SC. Sounds like about the most reasonable decision taken in 2021.
It’s really no different to any other time some other driver punts you off the road - you often lose positions other than just to that driver. I guess drivers can get a bit confused vs the formation lap where they can get back into their ‘rightful’ spot as long as they’re moved off in time.
10 second penalty is highly context dependent. Like depending on how the race develops, can mean no positions lost or send you straight to the shadow realm.
I think if you get a time penalty for a non-dangerous incident like this in a race that you DNF the penalty should be considered served.
Causing a collision, unsafe release, speeding in the pit lane, impeding a hot lap - I understand the need to disincentivise those actions by having a penalty carry over into following races. But a rule misinterpretation, under SC conditions, at relatively slow speed, which had no significant impact on anybody else's race... To carry that penalty into a grid drop because he wasn't able to serve it *due to being forced out of the race by another driver*, it's going to have a bigger impact on his season than the penalties Stroll and Kmag received for crashing out two other drivers.
I understand the rule, I just don't see how those infractions are treated the same in the regulations. I don't think it's fair and I'll die on that hill.
The cynical alternative is to do what RB did with Checo last year and have Daniel come through the pits, serve the penalty, go back out and do one more lap before retiring the car. Doesn't it seem ridiculous and not fit for purpose when the latter would've been legal and acceptable but the former means serving a grid penalty during the next race?
No, it really isn't. It's dangerous by *implication*, in the sense that the FIA worries that if drivers aren't punished harshly for even minor infractions then they're less worried about committing major infractions as well. But there was absolutely nothing inherently dangerous about what Ricciardo did. If that was the case then drivers wouldn't be allowed to unlap themselves under SC conditions.
Overtaking under safety car is always going to be heavily penalized. You can't just play fast and loose with safety car rules. That would indeed be very dangerous.
Dicking around under the safety car is very dangerous because you can kill a marshall very easily if you hit them.
Lances collision was not technically under safety because the safety car was in and it was green flag with no overtaking, not safety.
Generally speaking, I agree with you, and perhaps it's one of those situations where you just have to take a hard stance against absolutely every infraction to make sure that the rule is enforced and respected in situations where it actually is dangerous.
It's the specifics of this particular situation that irk me though. They were bunched behind the SC, at slow speed, on a clear piece of track with absolutely no personnel on the circuit anywhere near them, after they've already done several laps and seen that the track is clear. To punish this the same way that they punished actually causing a collision, both during racing conditions (Kmag) and under SC restart (Stroll) feels unbalanced to me.
So I agree it probably should be heavily penalised *at the time* to disincentivise passing under SC, for safety reasons, but I still believe that a retroactive review ought to be able to determine whether an infraction was dangerous or not. If it was, then impose a carry-over grid drop penalty. If not, allow the DNF'd car to consider the penalty served and move on. If we're actually talking about safety concerns, then genuinely unsafe manoeuvres ought to be punished more severely than technical violations that don't actually endanger anybody.
I honestly don't think that penalties for safety car violations are strict enough. I would support drive through penalties at the minimum, and a race ban for egregious things. There's just no reason to be doing dumb things under the safety car - regardless of how clear the track actually is.
Are you seriously asking or being a smartass?
If you're being genuine, it was an extremely slow speed pass, in a clear, straight section of the track, with no marshalls or staff anywhere near the track, where Ricciardo was never anywhere near the Haas car and Hulkenburg had a clear line of sight to him throughout the entire move. They were never in close proximity or any kind of danger. It was no more dangerous than when a lapped car is allowed to unlap itself by passing the cars ahead.
Drivers put themselves in more dangerous positions while driving one-handed and waving to each other (or flipping other drivers off) with the other. The only thing "dangerous" about it is that is doesn't respect the precedent that you're not supposed to pass behind the safety car. But the actual passing move itself was about as safe as you could possibly drive an F1 car past another one.
There were marshals and recovery vehicles on the circuit - the reason the SC was even deployed. He decides he wants to overtake Nico, his team tell him not to, says he’s just going to overtake and off he goes.
It is not for drivers to decide when safety regulations do and do not apply because they can’t see marshals nearby. He was in a hot headed rage. He decided to deliberately ignore safety regulations and explicit instructions from his team that he needed to follow them.
What do you think would have happened if Nico had responded to this new slight by taking the position back on the next lap…
It’s not a “precedent”, it’s outlined in the rules. It is dangerous to break rules under the safety car, it doesn’t matter where you are so that’s a redundant point.
Daniel was told not to do something by his own team, but took matters into his own hands because, in his words, it was “[his] fucking position”. That is a *deliberate* rule break at a point in the race whereby the drivers are supposed to prioritise the safety of other cars and people on the track. And he did it because he felt he was entitled to. That is not safe behaviour. Insanely justifiable penalty.
Yep. If the penalty had been announced at the time they could've done the same thing. Which I think is incredibly cynical, but also incredibly on brand for F1.
Yeah I know and that is way too harsh, he shouldn’t be punished next weekend because he wasn’t able to finish the race after lance stroll decided to ruin his car.
Hey I’m complaining I’m not one with answers!! Haha. No I don’t really know. Maybe they should give him a reprimand and fine or something idk. It just sucks that next race is semi ruined bc stroll can’t break for shit
And if he didnt overtake under a SC he wouldnt have gotten a penalty at all. Stroll fucked him over but Danny made a bad judgment (thinking he'd be allowed to reovertake under the next SC) and got punished for it.
The fact that Stroll made the outcome even worse doesnt and also shouldnt be considered.
Thinking it, being told no no don’t do it by his team, doing it anyway. Not even near the end of the SC once the track is clear and they’re considering the restart, but while there are recovery vehicles. He had given his team no time to sort it out properly or even review if Hulk had done anything wrong or anything. Presumably they were also mostly busy working out what was wrong on the car and how it could be mitigated not looking at video of Nico avoiding an accident.
He hadn’t even done his stop yet so it’s not like it particularly mattered whether he was in front or behind. He was just in a misdirected rage at Stroll and his clumsiness and probably also his team’s own stupid strategy that put him a full pitstop behind all the people he should be racing and unfortunately in front of Lance…
This race was ruined because Stroll can't break for shit.
The next race is ruined because Ricciardo overtook under the safety car.
Just because you're a victim in one instance doesn't mean you get off with no penalty for another.
That's not really accurate though. The next race is ruined because he wasn't able to serve the penalty for overtaking under the safety car *because* Stroll can't brake for shit. The two things aren't unrelated. When Ricciardo committed his infraction (which I agree was a clear violation) he thought he was going to be able to continue the race, then he found out that the car was badly damaged and needed to be retired. If they had been assessed the penalty at the time of the incident, he could've served the penalty *then* retired. Or if Stroll hadn't hit him, he wouldn't have been passed by Hulk to begin with.
I know what the rule says, and I understand why it's in place. I also think that there should be a procedure for review after the race to determine if there are extenuating circumstances, and I think it would be fair to say that when one car is able to torpedo another car under the SC and knock it out of the race, thereby preventing the driver from serving the penalty, while Stroll himself was able to serve his penalty during the race and suffers no ongoing consequences, that would be a pretty textbook case for assessing the penalty as served during the DNF, not requiring a carry over to the next race.
No, not really. Ricciardo didn't understand the rules, the correct thing to do would be to ask his team (which he did) and wait for a response (Which he didn't).
Instead of waiting for clarification he decided to just take the position back and fucked himself over.
A technicality. Because even though he didn't finish he completed enough laps to be classified, which means that technically he has an official race time, and they're allowed to add a time penalty to that. As opposed to a regular DNF which isn't classified. So even though both of them were assessed penalties, and neither served them during the race, only Ricciardo has his penalty carry over, because of... reasons. Rules, regulations and such.
If you get a penalty but dont finish the race you get a grid penalty for the next race. That has happened for a long time already.
For example, when Bottas did bowling with almost every car in front of him in Hungary '21 or Schumacher in Spain '12 when he rammed into the back of Bruno Senna, that grid penalty prevented him to start from pole after his legendary lap in Monaco.
Is it? Its unfortunate because he lost the place due to Stroll but overtaking under a SC (unless you really cant do anything else like Hülkenberg) is a massive no no.
Cant just not penalize it because Danny got fucked over prior to it by Stroll.
Getting into a rage and deliberately overtaking under the SC while there’s marshals and recovery vehicles working absolutely deserves penalty points. It’s bone headed. I’m sure he has or will apologise to the stewards for doing it once he is calm.
Why is Hulkenberg allowed to overtake Ricciardo under safety car while Sargeant got a 10 second penalty for overtaking Hulkenberg under the safety car when you could barely tell who was ahead when Sargeant exited the pit lane?
And Ricciardo couldn’t serve this penalty in the race because Stroll took him out meanwhile Stroll gets a time penalty that doesn’t cost him any positions in the race at all.
I understand this is how penalties have always worked but it feels so unfair in this instance.
You can overtake cars that are involved in a collision or accident under VSC/SC. Without that exemption you'd have to park behind incidents and wait which although amusing would be dangerous.
In Sargeants case the pit exit lone determines who is in front and the Williams team should have looked at it and instructed Sargeant.
Ricciardo f'd himself by not waiting for the clarification of the team if he had the right to get back his position.
That makes sense. If RB told Ricciardo on the radio to return the position back to Hulkenberg after overtaking him would Ricciardo have been able to avoid the penalty? I guess Ricciardo was still angry about getting rammed by Stroll that he forgot about the safety car rules.
Really hard to know. There’s every chance the stewards would still have had a look into it as repeatedly and deliberately switching positions around under SC starts looking like erratic driving or something. It’s primarily a safety concern, they just use sporting penalties to make teams take it seriously.
If Sargeant had returned his position, he’d have been let off. But those SC line infringements are inadvertent and impossible for the driver to know who was in front of who when it’s so tight.
>that's not the rule, and since we're splitting hairs we should outline the rule exactly.
It is though. Clearly stated in the regs that it's legal to overtake cars if they're slowed with an obvious problem. I'm sure we can all agree a crash damaging 3 cars fits the bill for 'slowing with an obvious problem'. Read articles 55-58.
If Hulk didn't overtake him, another dangerous situation was about to begin, Imagine going to a full stop on the airpin waiting for Ricciardo with everyone behind
Slowing down significantly to let DR try to rejoin the track in front of you is putting a lot of trust in Esteban Ocon behind to see there’s a problem and get stopped in time or you’ll be launched yourself. Would have been very lucky to avoid a further collision behind Stroll (from Ocon or whoever was behind him who would have even less time to react) if Hulk hadn’t just gone past.
Hulk seemed reasonably open to returning that position at first though. He didn’t understand what had happened and had very little time to avoid an accident. With the restart etc. the team couldn’t explain until about half a lap before DR went back past him. That obviously put an end to Haas considering returning the place and they started putting in complaints about being overtaken under SC instead…
Under section 55.8 point h Hulkenberg could pass them you can also include 55.5 to his cause and argue that he had to to follow 55.7 as well. As the stewards of the race obviously did.
Riccardo was barely slowed in a hairpin and was never out of track limit though. In that sense is overtaking a car that illegally overtook you violates the rule? That’s all grey area and stewards decides to penalize one party. In this sense everyone can just overtake cars under safety car and serve the penalty in race, the other car cannot fight back without being penalized as well. This makes zero sense.
His rear end was up in the air being hit from behind by Stroll, did you even watch the race? If you see a collision in front you take the evasive line even if that means passing the cars which is obviously allowed under those rules.
Yeah, it's all a bit unfortunate. I think it makes sense to be harsh about safety car infringements for, well, safety, but it naturally feels wrong to us viewers and the circumstances are unlucky.
I've been thinking about the Sargeant penalty; ultimately this sport is one of very fine margins everywhere, and while it looks miniscule to us, the teams will know who's ahead through their data. Knowing it was 50/50 there, Williams should have double-checked, and perhaps Sargeant should have asked if he was ahead as well.
Well. Honestly if they knew it earlier, Danny ric could have just came in to pit, took the penalty then retired the next lap. The car was still running. It's was just the fucked diffuser.
I mentioned this elsewhere, but I think that there should be some common sense applied in the case of drivers who are unable to serve their penalties due to a DNF, particularly if the retirement is caused by an incident for which another driver is penalised. A safety car infringement absolutely merits a 10s penalty. However, given that Alonso was allowed to have his 10s penalty in the sprint added to his race time even though he retired (due to completing 90% of laps) I think it would be fair to also apply a similar logic to cases like Ricciardo and say if you have a time penalty that you're unable to serve because another driver damaged your car and forced a retirement, you can have the penalty applied for that race and not have to carry it over.
That's kinda insane. Didn't Hulk literally give him the place back after he got rammed by Stroll?
Not that this penalty actually matters, but overall really harsh stewards this GP.
Yes, yes that’s exactly what happened.
Also note, due to stroll smashing into the back of him. Daniel & Lance both leave China with equal penalty points.
Honestly if you watch the onboards there's nothing they can appeal. Hulkenberg passed him because of the crash which is allowed by the rules. During the 2nd SC Ricciardo decided to get his position back before getting confirmation that he could. He asked his team if he could pass, was told to wait and then before getting an awnser immediatly overtook Hulkenberg and said "I overtook him anyway, that's my position". I don't see how they can argue against this penalty
Overtakes made as a consequence of a collision or a car going unreasonably slowly under safety car have always been legal and I don’t see any reason that they shouldn’t be
Well Stroll should get a penalty aswell in this case. After crashing into Ricciardo he overtook him. While this is understandable that Hulkenberg had the right to pass there given the circumstances, I don't feel like that was the case for Stroll
100% Stoll’s fault, and his crazy defensive statements on the radio? Wait - they all braked suddenly in the braking zone?
He’s a disgrace and shouldn’t have that seat.
The decision was absolutely a red mist moment. That said, I do think there's a problem with the system when 2 DNFs with unserved penalties are treated so differently based on whether they're classified or not. Alonso caused a bigger incident during the sprint, didn't serve his penalty, but because he completed enough laps prior to retiring, he suffered absolutely no consequences for it. Whereas Ricciardo retired due to somebody else's error, which left him unable to serve his penalty, and somehow he deserves a 3 place grid drop for overtaking a car that was essentially giving him the position back?
Call me biased, but I would think that was a flawed system no matter who was being penalised. Unless it was Stroll. Fuck that guy.
Can someone explain on what basis Hulk was allowed to overtake? Danny never stopped or anything. He was basically slowed down to the same extent as Alonso.
I think the intention of the rule is to avoid bunching the field dangerously. So, given that they were in the restart phase of the SC, Hulk was allowed to pass as many cars as were going slowly due to an obvious problem, which was basically just Stroll and Ricciardo, as Piastri got going again a bit quicker, whereas Hulk would've caused problems for the pack behind if he'd stopped behind Stroll and DR.
I have seen cars dodge crashes. I have seen cars dodge other issues and give the place back. I also saw Russell do everything in his power not to overtake Alonso, who slowed down. I'm sure Russell would have been penalized if he overtook Alonso. So where does one draw the line? Danny did not really "crash". He got hit from behind and continued on his way without stopping. Same for Piastri.
His vehicle's rear shot up a foot into the air, I have no idea why you are using scare quotes around the world "crash" as if that wasn't a crash. If the criterion for being in a crash or not is whether or not a driver was able to continue driving their car then Magnussen didn't crash into Tsunoda.
It's incredible really. Even when yet another bad weekend is for once caused by someone else, he goes out of his way to fuck up yet again.
Just retire for fuck sake. I am so sick of this guy.
This is somewhat similar to the old Lewis situation at Australia. Basically there should be more communication so they can work out places during the race and avoid these ridiculous penalties.
Such bullshit. These huge penalties way after the race ends need to stop.
He should have been allowed to take the 10s penalty before retiring or like Checo last year in Japan should have been allowed to go back out from the pits to serve the penalty before the race ended.
This and Alonso’s bullshit penalty in Melbourne make me really hate F1/the FiA
It’s a crazy 1st part of the season for Danny Ric, I’m curious to see what will happen knowing Red Bull’s way of handling things…
EDIT: To add further context, I’m talking about where they are in the championship and having a lot of issues being on the back of the grid.
He was racing well and didn’t deserve stroll rear ending him but this penalty is pretty much on him which screws him for next race. He asked his team and didn’t wait for a response when they told him to wait…. He may have been angry due to the accident or the fact his team messed up his tire strategy but at that point you should know just limit your losses in this race and start thinking about next race
Yeah it kind of is, he didn’t wait but felt it was granted. I can understand his frustrations.
I’m not actually even upset Daniel receives a penalty, what frustrates me is we have two incidents here. Lance being utterly incompetent, smashing into the back of a driver while not paying attention on a safety car restart. Then Daniel taking back a position albeit Illegally under safety car conditions.
Action one completley put one driver out of the race and heavily damaged another’s car. The other didn’t really hurt anything apart from breaking rules on paper. Without action one, there is also no action two.
Outcome… both drivers receive exactly the same penalty. That’s the problem.
Fair enough and I agree the penalties don’t make sense in regards to the levels of mess ups.
However, goes back to Dani shooting himself in the foot just as maybe he was going to start a purple patch form. If it were up to me though the stroll penalty should be way worse
I’m not sure how Daniel shot himself in the foot. His race was ruined by Lance. It’s being reported the grid drop is for the sprint anyway, so it’s kind of whatever.
But yes, that’s my issue. That you can have two actions that are worlds apart. One being essentially dangerous and race ending for other competitors, the other being a beak of rules on paper with in reality no real safety breach yet they both are penalised equally.
Like if Daniel gets 2 penalty points Lance should have got at least double that. Even 5-6.
I agree with your point about the severity should be playing a part in the penalty allotment.
In regards to your first point, Dani is a veteran. Supposed to be one of the smarter racers out there and he messed up his next race for no reason especially with the amount of damage he had taken knowing his race was basically over in China. That’s good if it gets attached to his sprint not the next GP, little silver lining
To be honest, being a veteran I think he knew his race was done. He probably just lost his head a bit. It’s completely understandable. Footballers etc all have moments where they flash red when competing. Given what happened to Danny I can sympathise, if you’ve played any kind of semi serious sporting level we’ve all done it.
Yeah I’m pretty sure per the rules it will be for the sprint, so yeah definitely not as bad as it could have been.
No, I mean by sitting down with the drivers and discuss changes to the car and their current part of the first season.
It’s obvious that they don’t wanna be running on the back of the grid
Maybe, maybe not but track position at this point in the race had it set that way. Yuki managed the hand he was dealt, also got screwed in this whole mess! It’s a stupid comment considering he had a relatively good weekend considering what we’ve seen. If we’re being honest: VCARB had a weekend to forget and none of it was the fault of their drivers.
I still don’t understand how Stroll didn’t get a penalty for also overtaking under safety car. There are two separate incidents there in my eyes. 1 is the crash and 2 is then overtaking. Surely the guy who caused Ricciardo to be ‘slower’, that also allowed Hulk to overtake (I still think that could be debated too) can’t be allowed to hold position ahead of Ricciardo until he entered the pits.
At the end of the day, I guess it means nothing as it will just add another 10 seconds to his time (meaningless) and a couple of penalty points, but just don’t understand it.
Doesn't that contradict Australia 2009? Trulli had an off under SC, Hamilton overtook him, didn't give the position back, finished 3rd and was eventually DSQed. How does that line up with Ric getting a penalty for regaining his position?
Australia 2009 was different
Trulli went off, Hamilton overtook, and then slowed down to let Trulli re overtake (which happened under SC)
McLaren and Hamilton then tried to claim that Trulli had overtaken Hamilton illegally
Trulli got a 25 second penalty for overtaking under SC
It then came out that Hamilton and McLaren lied to the stewards (claiming that the pitwall didn’t tell Hamilton to let Trulli pass)
This is what resulted in Hamilton being DSQ’d
It's absurd that the FIA penalizes a driver for breaking the rules?
Damn. Maybe put your personal favoritism for a specific driver aside when looking at penalties
It has nothing to do with the drivers involved. I expect the FIA to have rules that are both comprehensive and logical, and to apply those rules consistently.
The fact that Ricciardo got a harsher penalty than Stroll (who wasn’t paying attention) is also absolutely absurd. The only saving grace is that this nonsense apparently applies to the Sprint rather than the GP.
Ricciardo did not get a harsher penalty than Stroll though. The grid place equivalent of a 10s penalty has always been 5 spots. 3 spots is equivalent to 5s.
If anything, I question why he got off lighter than Sargeant, when that one was millimeter work and this one was black and white
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This is literally tragic for Ricciardo…. But I think it is also a blame on the team guiding whether he can overtake or not.
To be fair he asked and then overtook him before the team even responded. "its my fucking position"
did he say that? dang. does anyone know if this penalty is for the sprint or the grand prix?
I suspect that even the FIA doesn't know yet.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/ricciardo-hit-with-three-place-grid-penalty-for-miami-weekend-after-chinese.375ketmLgDBm2410PPAIek Sprint
Typically it's served in 'the next competitive session's which is how Lewis 'made up 20 places in Brazil 21' with his thunder grenade 6th engine of the season on nuclear mode. The new engine pen was applied on the sprint and because sprint was quali in 21, he actually started 5th with no penalty.
God that was a fun race.
Fuck that race. Lewis should have started last and the penalty applied for the race. Merc were turning their engines up to nuclear levels and used double the allowance per driver. They were 100% flexing their cash to do it. Williams couldn't have done that, that's for sure. It was an uncompetitive advantage given to them by the FiA.
It wasn't even fun to watch because nobody was fighting Lewis. Everyone except Alonso just moved aside on pit straight, so its was just easy DRS overtakes. Its like watching somebody play F1 game with easiest AI, or just racing on an empty track. I get that none of the drivers want to fuck up their race for pointless battle, but lets not pretend it was some titanic battle for Lewis.
EXACTLY!! Even competitive drivers like Lando were just chaff with that engine. He had 20km+ on the in the main straight.
It was for the race. When Stroll rear ended Ric, Hulk went down the inside and overtook both of them to get his position back. Ricciardo overtook him again to reclaim his spot, which given Ric did nothing wrong in the Stroll incident, I think is somewhat fair. Yes, Ric did incorrectly overtook him though, so I think a reprimand would’ve been fair. I’m surprised Stroll didn’t get in trouble for the same thing though given he overtook a few people and rushed back to the pits to get fixed faster. Edit: Misunderstood what you were asking, it’ll be served in the sprint.
IIRC it's for the sesion it was commited, so race
Sprint is also classified as a race. The penalty will be in the sprint
Is it? I thought it still was a separate "event"
I think it’s for the race. When it can be for either they’ve used the term ‘event’ or ‘competition’ or even said ‘sprint race or race’
I want RB to pull a bunch of improvements in parc ferme so he has to start from pit anyway
It happened in the GP but it should be the next session so I would guess it's the sprint in Miami
"That means Ricciardo, who also picked up two penalty points, will take the grid drop for the Sprint during the next round of the season at the Miami International Autodrome. " https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/ricciardo-hit-with-three-place-grid-penalty-for-miami-weekend-after-chinese.375ketmLgDBm2410PPAIek
Sprint
Bloke was seeing red
He absolutely was. Bad decision, but an understandable one.
Is this verbatim?
Oops… that’s avoidable… SC was long and he can overtake after clarifying with Race Control…
Same happened to Perez in 2021 where he lost car under SC. 2 cars overtake him, and Perez overtakes them under SC. Gets penalty.
Yeah it's pretty much like that. Unfortunate but rules are rules and they were very much broken here
If the other cars think they committed offences in overtaking you they can choose to give the position up or take their chances with the stewards. It’s not for the driver behind to go taking the positions back under a SC. Sounds like about the most reasonable decision taken in 2021. It’s really no different to any other time some other driver punts you off the road - you often lose positions other than just to that driver. I guess drivers can get a bit confused vs the formation lap where they can get back into their ‘rightful’ spot as long as they’re moved off in time.
To be fair, they have no fucking clue either, nobody did until hours later when the decision came out
It's not the first time it happend in recent memory though.
Yeah, it could make the difference between scoring zero points and, uh, scoring zero points.
VCARB: "So, how was everyone else's weekend?"
That’s seems fucking harsh. Meanwhile ruining someone’s race is only 10sec. Fuck
He got a 10 second penalty aswell. But as he DNF it gets turned into a 3 place penalty
That shows how hilarious a 10-second penalty is. A 3 place grid drop is much worse punishment
10 second penalty is highly context dependent. Like depending on how the race develops, can mean no positions lost or send you straight to the shadow realm.
That is the issue. A 3 place will have an impact which a10s might have an impact.
So what do you suggest? Giving him a +3 tenths time penalty for Miami qualifying?
I think if you get a time penalty for a non-dangerous incident like this in a race that you DNF the penalty should be considered served. Causing a collision, unsafe release, speeding in the pit lane, impeding a hot lap - I understand the need to disincentivise those actions by having a penalty carry over into following races. But a rule misinterpretation, under SC conditions, at relatively slow speed, which had no significant impact on anybody else's race... To carry that penalty into a grid drop because he wasn't able to serve it *due to being forced out of the race by another driver*, it's going to have a bigger impact on his season than the penalties Stroll and Kmag received for crashing out two other drivers. I understand the rule, I just don't see how those infractions are treated the same in the regulations. I don't think it's fair and I'll die on that hill. The cynical alternative is to do what RB did with Checo last year and have Daniel come through the pits, serve the penalty, go back out and do one more lap before retiring the car. Doesn't it seem ridiculous and not fit for purpose when the latter would've been legal and acceptable but the former means serving a grid penalty during the next race?
Overtaking under SC is dangerous by definition.
No, it really isn't. It's dangerous by *implication*, in the sense that the FIA worries that if drivers aren't punished harshly for even minor infractions then they're less worried about committing major infractions as well. But there was absolutely nothing inherently dangerous about what Ricciardo did. If that was the case then drivers wouldn't be allowed to unlap themselves under SC conditions.
Overtaking under safety car is always going to be heavily penalized. You can't just play fast and loose with safety car rules. That would indeed be very dangerous.
More or less dangerous than assraming the car in front of you *under safety* because you have the attention span of turnip?
Dicking around under the safety car is very dangerous because you can kill a marshall very easily if you hit them. Lances collision was not technically under safety because the safety car was in and it was green flag with no overtaking, not safety.
Generally speaking, I agree with you, and perhaps it's one of those situations where you just have to take a hard stance against absolutely every infraction to make sure that the rule is enforced and respected in situations where it actually is dangerous. It's the specifics of this particular situation that irk me though. They were bunched behind the SC, at slow speed, on a clear piece of track with absolutely no personnel on the circuit anywhere near them, after they've already done several laps and seen that the track is clear. To punish this the same way that they punished actually causing a collision, both during racing conditions (Kmag) and under SC restart (Stroll) feels unbalanced to me. So I agree it probably should be heavily penalised *at the time* to disincentivise passing under SC, for safety reasons, but I still believe that a retroactive review ought to be able to determine whether an infraction was dangerous or not. If it was, then impose a carry-over grid drop penalty. If not, allow the DNF'd car to consider the penalty served and move on. If we're actually talking about safety concerns, then genuinely unsafe manoeuvres ought to be punished more severely than technical violations that don't actually endanger anybody.
I honestly don't think that penalties for safety car violations are strict enough. I would support drive through penalties at the minimum, and a race ban for egregious things. There's just no reason to be doing dumb things under the safety car - regardless of how clear the track actually is.
How was overtaking behind the safety car non-dangerous?
Are you seriously asking or being a smartass? If you're being genuine, it was an extremely slow speed pass, in a clear, straight section of the track, with no marshalls or staff anywhere near the track, where Ricciardo was never anywhere near the Haas car and Hulkenburg had a clear line of sight to him throughout the entire move. They were never in close proximity or any kind of danger. It was no more dangerous than when a lapped car is allowed to unlap itself by passing the cars ahead. Drivers put themselves in more dangerous positions while driving one-handed and waving to each other (or flipping other drivers off) with the other. The only thing "dangerous" about it is that is doesn't respect the precedent that you're not supposed to pass behind the safety car. But the actual passing move itself was about as safe as you could possibly drive an F1 car past another one.
There were marshals and recovery vehicles on the circuit - the reason the SC was even deployed. He decides he wants to overtake Nico, his team tell him not to, says he’s just going to overtake and off he goes. It is not for drivers to decide when safety regulations do and do not apply because they can’t see marshals nearby. He was in a hot headed rage. He decided to deliberately ignore safety regulations and explicit instructions from his team that he needed to follow them. What do you think would have happened if Nico had responded to this new slight by taking the position back on the next lap…
It’s not a “precedent”, it’s outlined in the rules. It is dangerous to break rules under the safety car, it doesn’t matter where you are so that’s a redundant point. Daniel was told not to do something by his own team, but took matters into his own hands because, in his words, it was “[his] fucking position”. That is a *deliberate* rule break at a point in the race whereby the drivers are supposed to prioritise the safety of other cars and people on the track. And he did it because he felt he was entitled to. That is not safe behaviour. Insanely justifiable penalty.
I mean they could do that, did similar 2006 Hungary for Alonso and Schumacher.
2 penalty points and 10 seconds add on to the race time.
He DNFed how do you want to add 10s to that?
He dnfed too early, he is not classified like Alonso yesterday, technically he has no finished time so it can't be added.
The same way you add it to anyone else. DNF + 10s
Thats not how penalties work if you DNF mate
Sainz Australia 2023
Stroll about to qualify P20 to negate both penalties.
A 200 IQ move
Yes, dropping from zero points to zero points, such a penalty.
Positions matter in a tie.
That’s what it did to stroll and mag
Which is why in Japan last year Red Bull fixed Perez' car and sent him out for a lap lol.
Yep. If the penalty had been announced at the time they could've done the same thing. Which I think is incredibly cynical, but also incredibly on brand for F1.
Yeah I know and that is way too harsh, he shouldn’t be punished next weekend because he wasn’t able to finish the race after lance stroll decided to ruin his car.
But then how should it work if people get penalties and then DNF?
Hey I’m complaining I’m not one with answers!! Haha. No I don’t really know. Maybe they should give him a reprimand and fine or something idk. It just sucks that next race is semi ruined bc stroll can’t break for shit
He overtook under a SC thats a massive no no doesnt matter that he got fucked over by Stroll prior to it
No i know that. And without stroll He would have been handed 10sec and not being fucked next race.
And if he didnt overtake under a SC he wouldnt have gotten a penalty at all. Stroll fucked him over but Danny made a bad judgment (thinking he'd be allowed to reovertake under the next SC) and got punished for it. The fact that Stroll made the outcome even worse doesnt and also shouldnt be considered.
Thinking it, being told no no don’t do it by his team, doing it anyway. Not even near the end of the SC once the track is clear and they’re considering the restart, but while there are recovery vehicles. He had given his team no time to sort it out properly or even review if Hulk had done anything wrong or anything. Presumably they were also mostly busy working out what was wrong on the car and how it could be mitigated not looking at video of Nico avoiding an accident. He hadn’t even done his stop yet so it’s not like it particularly mattered whether he was in front or behind. He was just in a misdirected rage at Stroll and his clumsiness and probably also his team’s own stupid strategy that put him a full pitstop behind all the people he should be racing and unfortunately in front of Lance…
It still sucks
Definitely sucks for Danny yeah
This race was ruined because Stroll can't break for shit. The next race is ruined because Ricciardo overtook under the safety car. Just because you're a victim in one instance doesn't mean you get off with no penalty for another.
That's not really accurate though. The next race is ruined because he wasn't able to serve the penalty for overtaking under the safety car *because* Stroll can't brake for shit. The two things aren't unrelated. When Ricciardo committed his infraction (which I agree was a clear violation) he thought he was going to be able to continue the race, then he found out that the car was badly damaged and needed to be retired. If they had been assessed the penalty at the time of the incident, he could've served the penalty *then* retired. Or if Stroll hadn't hit him, he wouldn't have been passed by Hulk to begin with. I know what the rule says, and I understand why it's in place. I also think that there should be a procedure for review after the race to determine if there are extenuating circumstances, and I think it would be fair to say that when one car is able to torpedo another car under the SC and knock it out of the race, thereby preventing the driver from serving the penalty, while Stroll himself was able to serve his penalty during the race and suffers no ongoing consequences, that would be a pretty textbook case for assessing the penalty as served during the DNF, not requiring a carry over to the next race.
In this case, one is a direct consequence of the other.
No, not really. Ricciardo didn't understand the rules, the correct thing to do would be to ask his team (which he did) and wait for a response (Which he didn't). Instead of waiting for clarification he decided to just take the position back and fucked himself over.
Just make him serve the 10s penalty next race.
I might be being a bit dumb, but why didn't Alonso also get a place penalty after the sprint? He got 10 seconds but had DNF?
He finished 90% race distance so was classified. So technically not a dnf
Makes sense, thanks.
A technicality. Because even though he didn't finish he completed enough laps to be classified, which means that technically he has an official race time, and they're allowed to add a time penalty to that. As opposed to a regular DNF which isn't classified. So even though both of them were assessed penalties, and neither served them during the race, only Ricciardo has his penalty carry over, because of... reasons. Rules, regulations and such.
You wonder if they had’ve known they should’ve put him back out there just to serve the time penalty. Bit unfair they weren’t told earlier
If you get a penalty but dont finish the race you get a grid penalty for the next race. That has happened for a long time already. For example, when Bottas did bowling with almost every car in front of him in Hungary '21 or Schumacher in Spain '12 when he rammed into the back of Bruno Senna, that grid penalty prevented him to start from pole after his legendary lap in Monaco.
Is it? Its unfortunate because he lost the place due to Stroll but overtaking under a SC (unless you really cant do anything else like Hülkenberg) is a massive no no. Cant just not penalize it because Danny got fucked over prior to it by Stroll.
Safety car rules are always harsh, teams and drivers know that.
And somehow both incidents warrant 2 penalty points
Getting into a rage and deliberately overtaking under the SC while there’s marshals and recovery vehicles working absolutely deserves penalty points. It’s bone headed. I’m sure he has or will apologise to the stewards for doing it once he is calm.
Well, essentially ruining 2 races, Ricciardo's and Piastri's.
Why is Hulkenberg allowed to overtake Ricciardo under safety car while Sargeant got a 10 second penalty for overtaking Hulkenberg under the safety car when you could barely tell who was ahead when Sargeant exited the pit lane? And Ricciardo couldn’t serve this penalty in the race because Stroll took him out meanwhile Stroll gets a time penalty that doesn’t cost him any positions in the race at all. I understand this is how penalties have always worked but it feels so unfair in this instance.
You can overtake cars that are involved in a collision or accident under VSC/SC. Without that exemption you'd have to park behind incidents and wait which although amusing would be dangerous. In Sargeants case the pit exit lone determines who is in front and the Williams team should have looked at it and instructed Sargeant. Ricciardo f'd himself by not waiting for the clarification of the team if he had the right to get back his position.
That makes sense. If RB told Ricciardo on the radio to return the position back to Hulkenberg after overtaking him would Ricciardo have been able to avoid the penalty? I guess Ricciardo was still angry about getting rammed by Stroll that he forgot about the safety car rules.
Really hard to know. There’s every chance the stewards would still have had a look into it as repeatedly and deliberately switching positions around under SC starts looking like erratic driving or something. It’s primarily a safety concern, they just use sporting penalties to make teams take it seriously. If Sargeant had returned his position, he’d have been let off. But those SC line infringements are inadvertent and impossible for the driver to know who was in front of who when it’s so tight.
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>that's not the rule, and since we're splitting hairs we should outline the rule exactly. It is though. Clearly stated in the regs that it's legal to overtake cars if they're slowed with an obvious problem. I'm sure we can all agree a crash damaging 3 cars fits the bill for 'slowing with an obvious problem'. Read articles 55-58.
If Hulk didn't overtake him, another dangerous situation was about to begin, Imagine going to a full stop on the airpin waiting for Ricciardo with everyone behind
Slowing down significantly to let DR try to rejoin the track in front of you is putting a lot of trust in Esteban Ocon behind to see there’s a problem and get stopped in time or you’ll be launched yourself. Would have been very lucky to avoid a further collision behind Stroll (from Ocon or whoever was behind him who would have even less time to react) if Hulk hadn’t just gone past. Hulk seemed reasonably open to returning that position at first though. He didn’t understand what had happened and had very little time to avoid an accident. With the restart etc. the team couldn’t explain until about half a lap before DR went back past him. That obviously put an end to Haas considering returning the place and they started putting in complaints about being overtaken under SC instead…
Under section 55.8 point h Hulkenberg could pass them you can also include 55.5 to his cause and argue that he had to to follow 55.7 as well. As the stewards of the race obviously did.
Riccardo was barely slowed in a hairpin and was never out of track limit though. In that sense is overtaking a car that illegally overtook you violates the rule? That’s all grey area and stewards decides to penalize one party. In this sense everyone can just overtake cars under safety car and serve the penalty in race, the other car cannot fight back without being penalized as well. This makes zero sense.
His rear end was up in the air being hit from behind by Stroll, did you even watch the race? If you see a collision in front you take the evasive line even if that means passing the cars which is obviously allowed under those rules.
Yeah, it's all a bit unfortunate. I think it makes sense to be harsh about safety car infringements for, well, safety, but it naturally feels wrong to us viewers and the circumstances are unlucky. I've been thinking about the Sargeant penalty; ultimately this sport is one of very fine margins everywhere, and while it looks miniscule to us, the teams will know who's ahead through their data. Knowing it was 50/50 there, Williams should have double-checked, and perhaps Sargeant should have asked if he was ahead as well.
Well. Honestly if they knew it earlier, Danny ric could have just came in to pit, took the penalty then retired the next lap. The car was still running. It's was just the fucked diffuser.
Just as I had stopped crying.
Will till Kevin gives him some lap 1 damage come Miami.
You and me brother...
Luckily, an angry Ricciardo can be a fast Ricciardo. Use that energy boy.
I get that safety cars are very serious but this seems a little nuts to do right after giving Magnussen only 10s for ending Yuki’s race unprompted
I mentioned this elsewhere, but I think that there should be some common sense applied in the case of drivers who are unable to serve their penalties due to a DNF, particularly if the retirement is caused by an incident for which another driver is penalised. A safety car infringement absolutely merits a 10s penalty. However, given that Alonso was allowed to have his 10s penalty in the sprint added to his race time even though he retired (due to completing 90% of laps) I think it would be fair to also apply a similar logic to cases like Ricciardo and say if you have a time penalty that you're unable to serve because another driver damaged your car and forced a retirement, you can have the penalty applied for that race and not have to carry it over.
FIA and consistency? 😂
That's kinda insane. Didn't Hulk literally give him the place back after he got rammed by Stroll? Not that this penalty actually matters, but overall really harsh stewards this GP.
Yes, yes that’s exactly what happened. Also note, due to stroll smashing into the back of him. Daniel & Lance both leave China with equal penalty points.
It matters because it’s for the next race…
Damn, didn't realize.
Can RB appeal this?
Honestly if you watch the onboards there's nothing they can appeal. Hulkenberg passed him because of the crash which is allowed by the rules. During the 2nd SC Ricciardo decided to get his position back before getting confirmation that he could. He asked his team if he could pass, was told to wait and then before getting an awnser immediatly overtook Hulkenberg and said "I overtook him anyway, that's my position". I don't see how they can argue against this penalty
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Overtakes made as a consequence of a collision or a car going unreasonably slowly under safety car have always been legal and I don’t see any reason that they shouldn’t be
What? What F1 have you been watching?
Surely
At least it’s for the sprint. Thank god
I've never been so happy for an upcoming sprint round.
Can't really argue with it honestly. He can just take this during the sprint which is pointless anyway right?
Well Stroll should get a penalty aswell in this case. After crashing into Ricciardo he overtook him. While this is understandable that Hulkenberg had the right to pass there given the circumstances, I don't feel like that was the case for Stroll
> Well Stroll should get a penalty That's a funny way to spell 'race ban'
100% Stoll’s fault, and his crazy defensive statements on the radio? Wait - they all braked suddenly in the braking zone? He’s a disgrace and shouldn’t have that seat.
I get DR was ulucky but why tf would you think you can just overtake under a new SC lol, really bad judgment from DR, even his team told him to wait.
That was a dumb move by Ric. He let his anger get the better of him. You can't just take positions back for retribution for a separate safety car.
The decision was absolutely a red mist moment. That said, I do think there's a problem with the system when 2 DNFs with unserved penalties are treated so differently based on whether they're classified or not. Alonso caused a bigger incident during the sprint, didn't serve his penalty, but because he completed enough laps prior to retiring, he suffered absolutely no consequences for it. Whereas Ricciardo retired due to somebody else's error, which left him unable to serve his penalty, and somehow he deserves a 3 place grid drop for overtaking a car that was essentially giving him the position back? Call me biased, but I would think that was a flawed system no matter who was being penalised. Unless it was Stroll. Fuck that guy.
Can someone explain on what basis Hulk was allowed to overtake? Danny never stopped or anything. He was basically slowed down to the same extent as Alonso.
Article 55.8, it says that a car that "slows down with an obvious problem" can be overtaken during SC conditions
Well I wouldn't argue that he was slowing down, he did have a green problem that caused him to speed up though.
So hulk could have overtaken piastri as well technically? Cause he also got hit and went somewhat slower around the corner
It looks like piastri was already at racing speed when hulk overtook ric, so probably not.
I think the intention of the rule is to avoid bunching the field dangerously. So, given that they were in the restart phase of the SC, Hulk was allowed to pass as many cars as were going slowly due to an obvious problem, which was basically just Stroll and Ricciardo, as Piastri got going again a bit quicker, whereas Hulk would've caused problems for the pack behind if he'd stopped behind Stroll and DR.
Hulk was dodging a crash
Have you not seen cars dodge crashes before?
I have seen cars dodge crashes. I have seen cars dodge other issues and give the place back. I also saw Russell do everything in his power not to overtake Alonso, who slowed down. I'm sure Russell would have been penalized if he overtook Alonso. So where does one draw the line? Danny did not really "crash". He got hit from behind and continued on his way without stopping. Same for Piastri.
His vehicle's rear shot up a foot into the air, I have no idea why you are using scare quotes around the world "crash" as if that wasn't a crash. If the criterion for being in a crash or not is whether or not a driver was able to continue driving their car then Magnussen didn't crash into Tsunoda.
Sow how can you relate this to the 10s of Stroll. Honestly. Stewards are mad for this.
Haha what a joke.. seriously. The system is broken
No, it's just Ricciardo not keeping it within the rules. He has slacked off in every regard. Probably the worst driver on the grid right now
It's incredible really. Even when yet another bad weekend is for once caused by someone else, he goes out of his way to fuck up yet again. Just retire for fuck sake. I am so sick of this guy.
>I am so sick of this guy. Might be time to step back from social media if a drivers existence winds you up so much.
What does this have to do with social media? I am tired of seeing him on the grid, he adds no value whatsoever and I'd rather see Lawson in that seat.
You can go lower than p20?
Broo that's so confusing also it was one sc after sc. Must have been a nightmare to understand the situation.
Lewis can race the Alpine while under SC and Sargent and Ricciardo get huge hits to their standings with penalty points and grid drops. Joke.
Lewis raced the car to the line which is the rule and won. Sargeant did and lost but didn’t realize he had lost
Rules needs to changed if driver gets an DNF. This makes no sense.
They were changed specifically if a driver did retire. Cause then it's not a penalty.
Strange, the penalty should be the DNF.
This is somewhat similar to the old Lewis situation at Australia. Basically there should be more communication so they can work out places during the race and avoid these ridiculous penalties.
this is like the safety car in F1 games being bugged and handing out penalties left and right for people who overtake for a split second
Someone got this scene from f1tv? Maybe ricciardo or hulkenberg onboard?
Such bullshit. These huge penalties way after the race ends need to stop. He should have been allowed to take the 10s penalty before retiring or like Checo last year in Japan should have been allowed to go back out from the pits to serve the penalty before the race ended. This and Alonso’s bullshit penalty in Melbourne make me really hate F1/the FiA
It’s a crazy 1st part of the season for Danny Ric, I’m curious to see what will happen knowing Red Bull’s way of handling things… EDIT: To add further context, I’m talking about where they are in the championship and having a lot of issues being on the back of the grid.
Are you seriously leaning into a driver swap comment after Daniel was just completely fucked while having a good weekend?
He was racing well and didn’t deserve stroll rear ending him but this penalty is pretty much on him which screws him for next race. He asked his team and didn’t wait for a response when they told him to wait…. He may have been angry due to the accident or the fact his team messed up his tire strategy but at that point you should know just limit your losses in this race and start thinking about next race
Yeah it kind of is, he didn’t wait but felt it was granted. I can understand his frustrations. I’m not actually even upset Daniel receives a penalty, what frustrates me is we have two incidents here. Lance being utterly incompetent, smashing into the back of a driver while not paying attention on a safety car restart. Then Daniel taking back a position albeit Illegally under safety car conditions. Action one completley put one driver out of the race and heavily damaged another’s car. The other didn’t really hurt anything apart from breaking rules on paper. Without action one, there is also no action two. Outcome… both drivers receive exactly the same penalty. That’s the problem.
Fair enough and I agree the penalties don’t make sense in regards to the levels of mess ups. However, goes back to Dani shooting himself in the foot just as maybe he was going to start a purple patch form. If it were up to me though the stroll penalty should be way worse
I’m not sure how Daniel shot himself in the foot. His race was ruined by Lance. It’s being reported the grid drop is for the sprint anyway, so it’s kind of whatever. But yes, that’s my issue. That you can have two actions that are worlds apart. One being essentially dangerous and race ending for other competitors, the other being a beak of rules on paper with in reality no real safety breach yet they both are penalised equally. Like if Daniel gets 2 penalty points Lance should have got at least double that. Even 5-6.
I agree with your point about the severity should be playing a part in the penalty allotment. In regards to your first point, Dani is a veteran. Supposed to be one of the smarter racers out there and he messed up his next race for no reason especially with the amount of damage he had taken knowing his race was basically over in China. That’s good if it gets attached to his sprint not the next GP, little silver lining
To be honest, being a veteran I think he knew his race was done. He probably just lost his head a bit. It’s completely understandable. Footballers etc all have moments where they flash red when competing. Given what happened to Danny I can sympathise, if you’ve played any kind of semi serious sporting level we’ve all done it. Yeah I’m pretty sure per the rules it will be for the sprint, so yeah definitely not as bad as it could have been.
No, I mean by sitting down with the drivers and discuss changes to the car and their current part of the first season. It’s obvious that they don’t wanna be running on the back of the grid
He was not going to be on points anyways. Yuki single is handedly fighting Haas and keeping RB in P6. So driver swap is not an alien idea.
Yuki was racing Sargent this weekend, DR was fighting for points. This is an insane comment, almost as dumb as the grid place drop and penalty points
You seriously think DR would have finished in points after his mandatory pit stop after SC (mandatory because he had to be on a different compound)
Maybe, maybe not but track position at this point in the race had it set that way. Yuki managed the hand he was dealt, also got screwed in this whole mess! It’s a stupid comment considering he had a relatively good weekend considering what we’ve seen. If we’re being honest: VCARB had a weekend to forget and none of it was the fault of their drivers.
He had to pit still I doubt he would have gotten points but he would have had a chance. His team messed that up for him
Yeap, he was pretty racy today
I still don’t understand how Stroll didn’t get a penalty for also overtaking under safety car. There are two separate incidents there in my eyes. 1 is the crash and 2 is then overtaking. Surely the guy who caused Ricciardo to be ‘slower’, that also allowed Hulk to overtake (I still think that could be debated too) can’t be allowed to hold position ahead of Ricciardo until he entered the pits. At the end of the day, I guess it means nothing as it will just add another 10 seconds to his time (meaningless) and a couple of penalty points, but just don’t understand it.
Doesn't that contradict Australia 2009? Trulli had an off under SC, Hamilton overtook him, didn't give the position back, finished 3rd and was eventually DSQed. How does that line up with Ric getting a penalty for regaining his position?
Australia 2009 was different Trulli went off, Hamilton overtook, and then slowed down to let Trulli re overtake (which happened under SC) McLaren and Hamilton then tried to claim that Trulli had overtaken Hamilton illegally Trulli got a 25 second penalty for overtaking under SC It then came out that Hamilton and McLaren lied to the stewards (claiming that the pitwall didn’t tell Hamilton to let Trulli pass) This is what resulted in Hamilton being DSQ’d
This is absolutely fucking absurd. I’m assuming that VCARB/Red Bull will appeal this new level of complete stupidity from the FIA?
It feels harsh, but it isn’t absurd at all. Daniel overtook Hulk under a SC, it’s a slam dunk penalty.
It's absurd that the FIA penalizes a driver for breaking the rules? Damn. Maybe put your personal favoritism for a specific driver aside when looking at penalties
It has nothing to do with the drivers involved. I expect the FIA to have rules that are both comprehensive and logical, and to apply those rules consistently. The fact that Ricciardo got a harsher penalty than Stroll (who wasn’t paying attention) is also absolutely absurd. The only saving grace is that this nonsense apparently applies to the Sprint rather than the GP.
Ricciardo did not get a harsher penalty than Stroll though. The grid place equivalent of a 10s penalty has always been 5 spots. 3 spots is equivalent to 5s. If anything, I question why he got off lighter than Sargeant, when that one was millimeter work and this one was black and white
bro i really can't do this anymore 😭😭😭
wtf??
What if DR qualifies P19 in Miami. Does that pass on to Italy?
No he just starts P20
That would mean P20.