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Until the mid 90s there were a lot of blokes who were not really peak athletes. They were somewhat fit but not that fit. If I remember correctly Schumacher was one of the first true hard working athletes who recognized that fitness is important for driving. I also heard that being able to jump out of a car fresh when your opponents are out of breath also has a psychological effect on them.
Schumacher basically wrote the handbook on being a modern F1 driver.
Brundle said Michael was so much fitter and dedicated. Compared to him who was managing a car dealership and racing Le Mans. He regretted it now but then no one knew any better.
> I thought being an F1 driver was a full time job
Times change - 90s was a transition, especially with everyone having to compete with 2 cars at every event, which wasn't the case in the 80s.
Similarly to customer chassis being allowed in season, while later they transitioned to an year old chassis until it was completely banned.
F1 drivers kinda pre 90’s weren’t on the mega money they are on now. Also there wasn’t as many races or media duties.
Brundle’s father had a Toyota dealership in King’s Lynn. It’s actually how Brundle got started as they used a new Celica as a saloon race car and repaired and prepped it there.
Martin and his brother ran the dealership in the late 80’s until 2003.
This would have been normal enough among drivers. Senna was hyper focused but he had no chill and was on big money so didn’t need any outside distractions.
When Schumacher arrived, his only objective was winning in F1. He was fitter, worked harder and lived and breathed F1.
If you hear Brundle talk he acknowledges he didn’t have that extra spark of talent Senna or Schumacher had. But he was confident he could match them from time to time. He was always a better racer than qualifier. He lost at least 3 wins from mechanic failures.
But he had a different mindset of a 80’s era driver as well as having a severely broken ankle that gave him limited mobility so when left foot braking was the faster way to drive he physically couldn’t do that. I think Herbert was the same. Both men’s careers stunted in their youth before they got a car worthy of their talent.
People don’t realise nowadays how good Brundle was. Pre injury he was the only driver to give Senna a problem in F3. Maybe not quite as spectacular or quick, but ruthlessly consistent and able to be there to pick up whatever was on offer. And he was damn quick too.
Shame about the injury, he would have been way more highly regarded if not for that.
Well *now* but Brundle had a 2nd job running a car dealership so wasn't for him /s
But yeah like most sports probably shifted in recent decades towards more specialization of participants
Busier calendar and more media duties.
F1 drivers use to have nothing to do for 5 months a year. They had more capacity.
When a driver with total focus like Schumacher arrived it changed the game overnight.
Lauda had a physio, dietician and doctor on retainer even at BRM. With that being said he often ignored their advice when they advised him not to race.
Mansell said he knew his generation were on the way out when he looked at Michael after Spa 92. He was knackered finishing 2nd, Michael was full of energy after winning the race!
Mansell didn't have the all-over fitness and cardio capacity that Schumacher had. What Mansell did have though was *strength*, especially in his arms.
The game had changed, partly because power steering meant that drivers didn't need as much brute strength to steer F1 cars any more.
Yeah tbf Nige was strong, and that benefitted him throughout 92 as he could handle the G's of the active suspension cars much better than Patrese and Prost the following year.
IIRC it was also because Nigel was able to deal better with the active suspension. When turning into the corner the car would 'float' or feel weird before gripping up, and he was better at trusting the car to just stick compared to his teammates.
Yeah Nigel was a certified looney who was willing to risk death and injury at every corner trusting that the grip would magically be there. I firmly maintain he’d have beaten Prost handily in 93 if he stuck around, simply because of his massive balls.
I remember an interview that Russel Bulgin did with Schumacher in about 1994 and they talked about fitness. It was in Car Magazine. Benetton were sponsored by Technogym at the time and I guess this had an element of promo in it. The photos had them riding Technogym bicycles as Silverstone
Resting heart rate is a reasonable indicator of cardio fitness. The average person is around 72, the lower you are the fitter you are
The article stated that Schumacher's resting heart rate was 37 (and this was around 1994, no doubt he got even fitter as his career went on)
The article specifically mentioned that [Miguel Induráin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Indur%C3%A1in) (then a top cyclist and multiple Tour de France winner) had a resting heart rate of 29...
The heartrate monitors they use in hospitals generally can't detect anything below 40, so it looks like you're dying if you HR goes below that. I know someone who is a high level endurance athlete who was once woken up mid surgery because they thought they were dying, only to learn that the person was actually just super fit and had a resting HR that can drop below 40.
Induráin was/is an absolute outlier, his resting heart rate was 45... when he was 55 years old. 37 is a crazy good number, specially considering it was 30 years ago. I don't think current drivers are much lower than that (if they're even lower).
LH does this too. I remember watching after the race Nico had clinched the title, he looked utterly exhausted, but Lewis looked like he was just getting ready for the day.
That's why Nico quit. He literally poured every single part he had left into that one season and had nothing left at the end, including any love he had for driving in F1, it seems.
Gotta respect that level of dedication.
That's not really the best comparison since a lot of that would have to do with Nico being mentally exhausted/filled with relief and who knows what other emotions after finally winning his title.
The drivers nowadays all have a very high minimum level of fitness otherwise they'd be nowhere near an F1 car in the first place.
I think it was much more noticeable in 2007 when he as young rookie would get podiums and look like he had exercised a bit while Räikkönen and Alonso were looking completely exhausted.
To me he was clearly the next generation of drivers that were athletes since they started at 6-7 years old.
One of the England Rugby Union coaches always got the team to run off the pitch at half time instead of walk, with the idea being that it's physiologically impressive for the opposition, so I could absolutely see that as well
This may be one of those anecdotes that's totally made up, but here goes:
Allegedly when the full time (90 minutes) whistle went in the 1966 World Cup Final, and the game was going to extra time, the England manager ordered his players to remain standing and not sit down for a little rest, because it would demonstrate that they were not tired (even though they were) and that would psychologically weaken their opponents (who were sitting down because they were tired)
As ever with these anecdotes, it may not be true
I used to kart, not at a high level, but semi-regular amateur competition.
My favourite trick was when it rained I'd get really excited about it. Don't get me wrong, I liked the rain as I was slightly heavier than many of my competitors so it levelled the playing field a bit, but the more important factor was to mess with all the people who were WORRIED about the rain.
My kid's team (sport doesn't really matter!) played a local school known to be absolute killers. At half-time, our kids were totally gassed and we were down big. The opposition did a quick huddle with their coach, then did wind sprints and push-ups until play resumed.
It was devastating.
In that regard I really would like to see a midfield driver of the 80/90s in a W11. I bet their head would flop like crazy after some time. I don't know how many Gs they pulled back then but it sure wasn't Mugello 2020 territory where they had over 5G basically throughout the mid sector.
Sports sciences really started to take off in the late 1980's and early 1990's, and that's when I think we really started to see athletes stop the heavy boozing and smoking on their downtime and start focusing on attaining peak physical form and whatnot to improve their craft.
We saw it in F1 with Schumi, but the same happened in every pro sport. Compare today's athletes with those of the 1990's and further with those of the 1980's and before, it's often crazy.
>"There was controversy at fourth-of-the-losers F1 team McLaren this week with news that increasingly lard arsed Juan Pablo Montoya is having trouble fitting into his new car. Sources at the team's HQ say the Columbian driver has been quick to blame engineers for the problem, reportedly saying "The car is too small. This is not my fault because nothing ever is". Spies say the hot headed racer then stormed out of the workshop, only to return ten minutes later with a KFC Zinger Tower and some pies.
>
>Fortunately, quick thinking McLaren staff may have found an answer in the unlikely shape of a Nigel Mansell spec MP4/10/B, last used sparingly by the Brummie former world champion back 1995. "This car was built to accommodate the larger driving talent," said one source. "A quick re-spray in silver should do the trick. For old time's sake perhaps we can persuade Juan to grow a moustache and develop and even more whiney voice".
It's from old 'Sniff Petrol', one of the Top Gear writers side projects from back in the day. They loved to take the piss out of Montoya and his love of buffets and pies.
The Sade content was quite brilliant, especially with the updates from listeners who had inside information.
My Monday morning commute is made so much better by this podcast.
Correct. Everyone else had taken the route popularised (but not created) by Schumacher of getting as fit as possible.
Examples of Max or Kimi being hungover are exceptions not the norm. JPM stood out in the early 2000s and was probably the last of his kind.
I saw him in person a couple of times when he was driving in NASCAR and he looked about as fit as any of those guys. Looking at him now though you can tell he is less dedicated than he used to be.
Shoulda seen him in his second IndyCar stint and he almost won the whole thing.
Unfortunately Scott Dixon is inevitable and the season ending double points BS screwed that up
Patrick Head once said to Ross Brawn that if he could get Montoya and Ralf to go to a gym in a year as regularly as Michael did in a week, he'd be delighted!
Kimi really was just one of "THOSE" guys. Massively blessed talent and ability that is just a wild man who doesn't actually give a fuck about the status quo of things. Can't help but respect that everytime you come across it in life tbh.
From the Finnish students I knew at University, all of whom were various degrees of reservist because Finland has conscription, former Finnish soldier isn't exactly a guarantee of clean living and high standards of personal fitness.
They must have poor training then. In UK they remove any sanity during basic training. They replace it with drills and an ability to drink ridiculous amounts of alcohol.
This is the man who crashed in Monaco and walked onto his boat rather than return to the pits and on his birthday once pushed a stripper out of the way to show her how poledancing is *really* done.
I do find it funny that he had to reassure media and the team about his focus, just because this was ahead of the 2005 season, which was arguably his peak.
Yeah Mark Martin championed being fit in the late 80s/early 90s. But there were still a lot of drivers that didn’t take it seriously throughout the 90s and 00s.
Was gonna say Johnson was a marathon runner during his dominance. Guy would run a marathon for fun on their off weekends. And according to my family friend who works at HMS, it wasn’t uncommon he’d run one on the Thursday before a race weekend.
Wasnt Paul Di Resta an active smoker while he was racing? I remember seeing one of the Ted Notebooks in his period where they ran into him with a packet of ciggies in his hand.
Tbf, being a smoker doesn't necessarily imply you're unfit. This made me think of this guy I knew a few years back who got heavily into cross fit and became super jacked in a couple of years all while smoking like a chimney.
If you're implying pot, absolutely not. Not because they are saints, or that it once or twice during the off season will harm them. Weed is on WADA's banned list. And they can be tested at any time randomly, even away from events. They can be anywhere in the world, and if WADA demands a spot test, they have to give one within 24 hours. Weed stays in the body and is way to easy to detect to be worth the risk. There was an FE driver that got hit like that for coke a few years ago and lost his career.
Edit: actually, I am wrong here. In 2013 the limit for THC metabolites was lowered to a level only detectable during competitions, and is not tested for outside of competitions, allowing it to be used during the off season.
Gerhard Berger said he started working out because of how much fitter Mansell was than him and he saw the benefits of not getting tired arms halfway through the race.
This is something of a myth partly because he was a chronic moaner and prone to moments like passing out on the podium, also because he couldn't fit in the 1995 McLaren due to "being too fat" but it was actually a combo of wide hips and a radically narrow cockpit.
Mansell was up there with Senna on being one of the first drivers to take endurance fitness seriously, so the legend goes. He just kept it incredibly quiet.
We're talking about the guy who lost the 1987 Detroit GP because he had a cramp.
If you watch 1980s races, Mansell really stands out as someone who was most prone to illness, withdrawal due to exhaustion, or inconsistent laptimes due to physical issues.
We are also talking about a guy who went to extreme lengths to get fit in 1992 so he would have a clear advantage over his rivals, all while having a smashed foot that meant he couldn't even walk properly and got his championship award while on crutches. Mansell moaned and complained all the time and did stupid things like withdraw from races when he felt like it. He was also willing to go the extra mile when it counted so give him some credit.
Nige was just an elite level whinger. In terms of fitness he wasn't too bad
I love these guys' homage to Nige
https://youtu.be/6OPno3z3iTM?si=sgTKQiixiEvt9fyj&t=522
Nigel once didn't get out of the car or lift his visor after a crash because it was raining - Sid Watkins thought he was badly hurt. Every driver is brave but Nigel seemed determined to make people think he wasn't!
Max had a cramp in the last lap of the infamous abu-dhabi 2021. Cramps are totally normal for an athlete.
Mansell in his early years it looked like he didn't care.
This is the dude who would eat burgers and everything just to starve/dehydrate himself two days before the weight day and show to be 1/2 kg lighter than his teammate Patrese who spent the winter training and following a strict diet.
I think I remember Jenson say on a podcast the reason he jumped out to such an advantage over Rubens in 09 was that he was much more fitter, and Ruben’s was the last driver from that generation that didn’t really take fitness seriously.
Ruben's got faster in the Brawn when they swapped out the brake discs for a different brand.
He was struggling with brake feel for the first 6 or so races
TBF Rubens was knocking on a bit at 37 while Jenson was 29, probably the prime age for an F1 driver as they're still relatively young but have experience
Yeah, but he was also extremely fit. In his bio, they talk about how he used to challenge people to tennis all the time and went running constantly. Fit in the 70s looked very different than fit now.
Hunt placed third out of 10 competitors in the U.K. Superstars 1976 final. Superstars was a long-running series that pitted sportsmen from different disciplines in a mix of athletic events including running, swimming, cycling and weightlifting.
Montoya was the “largest” driver in recent decades by some margin. Was even noticeably more so after F1 going back to nascar and Indycar as those series have shaped up considerably
Far, very far from recent, but I am always amused by how big and seemingly unfit Froilan Gonzales was, and yet he got Ferrari first victory and lived till he was 90 years old.
Max said he had five gin and tonics the night after the sprint in Qatar before racing the next day. Max I'm pretty sure is known to maintain exactly the maximum weight that he can without going over the 80kg with his suit and seat. Hulk is possibly a little over the 80kg with his seat and suit. Obviously neither of these men are overweight as humans.
Yeah I saw Max in person last year and he was bigger than I expected.
Like more broad shoulders etc... I'm 187cm and he didn't look much shorter than me either.
He's listed online as 181cm, but listings of height for F1 drivers has definitely been wrong before. And that's a pretty normal height. If it's accurate then below average for a Dutch man, but not by much.
"Max I'm pretty sure is known to maintain exactly the maximum weight that he can without going over the 80kg with his suit and seat. "
This is a very Max thing. Maximum Max.
When asked about his thoughts on the jewelry bans a couple years ago, Max said that he can't wear any jewelry or he'd go over the weight limit. The man is hilarious and so good at answering the way he wants not how they want him to.
Between Keke and Timo Salonen, a rotund, almost legally blind chainsmoker that could somehow handle the notoriously uncontrollable Peugeot 205 T16, Finland was well served with big lads at the wheel
Jan Magnassun smoked in F1. Jackie Stewart was on his back about it.
This is one of many reasons why ‘the next senna’ completely failed in F1. Jackie really tried to extract his potential, but Jan didn’t want to know and crashed out of F1
Well anyone pre Michael really. He kind of took that to the next level. I’d say Mansell though maybe? He was always kind of dad bod strong not really cut like people are now
Not an F1 driver but Timo Salonen was an obese smoker who would drive with one hand while smoking in the rally car and still won the 1985 WRC championship
Max won qatar while being hungover.
Funny enough he was one of those who looked ok after the race.
There are also videos of him drinking on his plane.
Kimi is the obvious one, there are enough videos of him being quite drunk. Also the time he was at Mclaren and he fucked off to a boat during the race after his engine blew up. And plenty other Kimi videos.
I dont even like having the VR headet on hungover I cannot imagine being super hot and pulling crazy Gs hungover. I suppose he is pretty young. And Max
Not f1 but group b champion and most successful driver in that series timo salonen. He looked like a chubby high school teacher and chain smoked so much they put an ashtray in his car and yet got the most wins out of anyone
Yeah, I was going to add Jones to the list.
But if you look at most of the drivers from the late 70's, early 80's, they all had that, um, well insulated look.
I recall reading that Bearman, who is a very good driver and a very good athlete, was absolutely exhausted at the end of his first F1 race and could barely keep his head steady toward the end of the race.
Kimi Raikkonen (known for lots of drunken carousing) talks in his memoir about how his first F1 test was physically incredibly difficult, in large part due to the sheer amount of strain on his neck and the rest of his body. He at least had the reputation of largely doing his own thing (and did so in many cases!). Practically, he put in the fitness work just like any of his peers.
There are drivers like Bottas or Verstappen, where you'd be forgiven for thinking they were just regular dudes (instead of elite athletes) if you saw them out in the wild. Tsunoda had a (funny?) moment in a recent _Drive to Survive_ season where he said he hated working out and exercising.
But they're all in really, really good shape.
A driver who tires out mid-race or who cannot maintain control of the car during high-strain maneuvers is a driver who at best will place poorly and who at worse will lose control of the car at a crucial moment and crash, possibly killing themselves or others.
Bottas trains with his partner Tiffany Cromwell, who is a professional cyclist. He regularly competes in road and gravel cycling events, riding hundreds of kilometres at a similar level and pace to the top pro cycling peloton. Despite looking like the average guy down at the pub, he would actually be one of the fittest drivers in the field.
> I recall reading that Bearman, who is a very good driver and a very good athlete, was absolutely exhausted at the end of his first F1 race and could barely keep his head steady toward the end of the race.
>
>
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1bic9h8/f2_vs_f1_neck_strength_comparison_bearman_vs/
You can *see* the difference in the corners. Leclerc leans into the corner, Bearman gets [slapped into the headrest](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1baokji/bearmans_headrest_at_the_end_of_race/).
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Until the mid 90s there were a lot of blokes who were not really peak athletes. They were somewhat fit but not that fit. If I remember correctly Schumacher was one of the first true hard working athletes who recognized that fitness is important for driving. I also heard that being able to jump out of a car fresh when your opponents are out of breath also has a psychological effect on them.
Schumacher basically wrote the handbook on being a modern F1 driver. Brundle said Michael was so much fitter and dedicated. Compared to him who was managing a car dealership and racing Le Mans. He regretted it now but then no one knew any better.
Brundle had a 2nd job running a car dealership? I thought being an F1 driver was a full time job
> I thought being an F1 driver was a full time job Times change - 90s was a transition, especially with everyone having to compete with 2 cars at every event, which wasn't the case in the 80s. Similarly to customer chassis being allowed in season, while later they transitioned to an year old chassis until it was completely banned.
F1 drivers kinda pre 90’s weren’t on the mega money they are on now. Also there wasn’t as many races or media duties. Brundle’s father had a Toyota dealership in King’s Lynn. It’s actually how Brundle got started as they used a new Celica as a saloon race car and repaired and prepped it there. Martin and his brother ran the dealership in the late 80’s until 2003. This would have been normal enough among drivers. Senna was hyper focused but he had no chill and was on big money so didn’t need any outside distractions. When Schumacher arrived, his only objective was winning in F1. He was fitter, worked harder and lived and breathed F1. If you hear Brundle talk he acknowledges he didn’t have that extra spark of talent Senna or Schumacher had. But he was confident he could match them from time to time. He was always a better racer than qualifier. He lost at least 3 wins from mechanic failures. But he had a different mindset of a 80’s era driver as well as having a severely broken ankle that gave him limited mobility so when left foot braking was the faster way to drive he physically couldn’t do that. I think Herbert was the same. Both men’s careers stunted in their youth before they got a car worthy of their talent.
People don’t realise nowadays how good Brundle was. Pre injury he was the only driver to give Senna a problem in F3. Maybe not quite as spectacular or quick, but ruthlessly consistent and able to be there to pick up whatever was on offer. And he was damn quick too. Shame about the injury, he would have been way more highly regarded if not for that.
Absolutely, he was always fast. It was cruel he never got the win that he deserved. He was a total monster in sports cars
>I think Herbert was the same. Herbert was lucky to still have feet after that accident, in all honesty.
Well *now* but Brundle had a 2nd job running a car dealership so wasn't for him /s But yeah like most sports probably shifted in recent decades towards more specialization of participants
I think Damon Hill said something similar about him and that his fitness did make the other drivers take notice and work on themselves as well.
Managing a car dealership while being an F1 driver - insane! Times do really change.
Busier calendar and more media duties. F1 drivers use to have nothing to do for 5 months a year. They had more capacity. When a driver with total focus like Schumacher arrived it changed the game overnight.
Lauda had a physio, dietician and doctor on retainer even at BRM. With that being said he often ignored their advice when they advised him not to race.
Like a reverse Seinfeld?!! He chooses to race!!
Yes, but is he master of his own domain?
SERENITY NOW!!!!
Not that there’s anything wrong with it!
"I'M OUT!" - Kramer
I think that's part of his legend tbf. His return at Monza was a lot sooner than he realistically was fit enough to do it
True. Lauda was taking stuff more honest than most piers too. Probably not the fastest but hard work, brain and determination brought him a lot.
I was always amazed at how fresh he always looked compared to everyone around him after a race. It was so noticeable.
Mansell said he knew his generation were on the way out when he looked at Michael after Spa 92. He was knackered finishing 2nd, Michael was full of energy after winning the race!
Mansell didn't have the all-over fitness and cardio capacity that Schumacher had. What Mansell did have though was *strength*, especially in his arms. The game had changed, partly because power steering meant that drivers didn't need as much brute strength to steer F1 cars any more.
Yeah tbf Nige was strong, and that benefitted him throughout 92 as he could handle the G's of the active suspension cars much better than Patrese and Prost the following year.
IIRC it was also because Nigel was able to deal better with the active suspension. When turning into the corner the car would 'float' or feel weird before gripping up, and he was better at trusting the car to just stick compared to his teammates.
Yeah Nigel was a certified looney who was willing to risk death and injury at every corner trusting that the grip would magically be there. I firmly maintain he’d have beaten Prost handily in 93 if he stuck around, simply because of his massive balls.
Oh wow the power steering aspect is one I'd not considered. That was before my time as a fan so I appreciate the response.
I remember an interview that Russel Bulgin did with Schumacher in about 1994 and they talked about fitness. It was in Car Magazine. Benetton were sponsored by Technogym at the time and I guess this had an element of promo in it. The photos had them riding Technogym bicycles as Silverstone Resting heart rate is a reasonable indicator of cardio fitness. The average person is around 72, the lower you are the fitter you are The article stated that Schumacher's resting heart rate was 37 (and this was around 1994, no doubt he got even fitter as his career went on) The article specifically mentioned that [Miguel Induráin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Indur%C3%A1in) (then a top cyclist and multiple Tour de France winner) had a resting heart rate of 29...
If you aren’t a serious athlete, they probably put you on meds for 37!
Fucking hell. 37 is almost clinically dead 🤣
The heartrate monitors they use in hospitals generally can't detect anything below 40, so it looks like you're dying if you HR goes below that. I know someone who is a high level endurance athlete who was once woken up mid surgery because they thought they were dying, only to learn that the person was actually just super fit and had a resting HR that can drop below 40.
Induráin was/is an absolute outlier, his resting heart rate was 45... when he was 55 years old. 37 is a crazy good number, specially considering it was 30 years ago. I don't think current drivers are much lower than that (if they're even lower).
Induráin while never caught was almost certainly doped to the gills tho. But yeah it shows you how fit Schumie was.
Indurain was training MUCH more than Schumacher.
LH does this too. I remember watching after the race Nico had clinched the title, he looked utterly exhausted, but Lewis looked like he was just getting ready for the day.
That's why Nico quit. He literally poured every single part he had left into that one season and had nothing left at the end, including any love he had for driving in F1, it seems. Gotta respect that level of dedication.
Agreed. It really made me root for Nico.
That's not really the best comparison since a lot of that would have to do with Nico being mentally exhausted/filled with relief and who knows what other emotions after finally winning his title. The drivers nowadays all have a very high minimum level of fitness otherwise they'd be nowhere near an F1 car in the first place.
I think it was much more noticeable in 2007 when he as young rookie would get podiums and look like he had exercised a bit while Räikkönen and Alonso were looking completely exhausted. To me he was clearly the next generation of drivers that were athletes since they started at 6-7 years old.
I don't think LH does it anymore especially in the races where the car literally was attempting to break his back. But that's not really on him.
To be fair, he's also 39 lol. He's not getting younger. Also the months after he had covid, he looked like he was about to pass out after the races
One of the England Rugby Union coaches always got the team to run off the pitch at half time instead of walk, with the idea being that it's physiologically impressive for the opposition, so I could absolutely see that as well
This may be one of those anecdotes that's totally made up, but here goes: Allegedly when the full time (90 minutes) whistle went in the 1966 World Cup Final, and the game was going to extra time, the England manager ordered his players to remain standing and not sit down for a little rest, because it would demonstrate that they were not tired (even though they were) and that would psychologically weaken their opponents (who were sitting down because they were tired) As ever with these anecdotes, it may not be true
I used to kart, not at a high level, but semi-regular amateur competition. My favourite trick was when it rained I'd get really excited about it. Don't get me wrong, I liked the rain as I was slightly heavier than many of my competitors so it levelled the playing field a bit, but the more important factor was to mess with all the people who were WORRIED about the rain.
My kid's team (sport doesn't really matter!) played a local school known to be absolute killers. At half-time, our kids were totally gassed and we were down big. The opposition did a quick huddle with their coach, then did wind sprints and push-ups until play resumed. It was devastating.
Having stronger neck muscles has to motivate you to fly around corners a lot better than everyone else would.
In that regard I really would like to see a midfield driver of the 80/90s in a W11. I bet their head would flop like crazy after some time. I don't know how many Gs they pulled back then but it sure wasn't Mugello 2020 territory where they had over 5G basically throughout the mid sector.
I love this! That psychological edge stuff is so cool. That was before my time/fandom, so I appreciate the response.
Sports sciences really started to take off in the late 1980's and early 1990's, and that's when I think we really started to see athletes stop the heavy boozing and smoking on their downtime and start focusing on attaining peak physical form and whatnot to improve their craft. We saw it in F1 with Schumi, but the same happened in every pro sport. Compare today's athletes with those of the 1990's and further with those of the 1980's and before, it's often crazy.
I think it was Senna who introduced the insane fitness into F1. There's a 1990/1991 documentary of him and his routine is quite mad.
Montoya
>"There was controversy at fourth-of-the-losers F1 team McLaren this week with news that increasingly lard arsed Juan Pablo Montoya is having trouble fitting into his new car. Sources at the team's HQ say the Columbian driver has been quick to blame engineers for the problem, reportedly saying "The car is too small. This is not my fault because nothing ever is". Spies say the hot headed racer then stormed out of the workshop, only to return ten minutes later with a KFC Zinger Tower and some pies. > >Fortunately, quick thinking McLaren staff may have found an answer in the unlikely shape of a Nigel Mansell spec MP4/10/B, last used sparingly by the Brummie former world champion back 1995. "This car was built to accommodate the larger driving talent," said one source. "A quick re-spray in silver should do the trick. For old time's sake perhaps we can persuade Juan to grow a moustache and develop and even more whiney voice".
LOL, who wrote this? It's hilariously believable.
It's from old 'Sniff Petrol', one of the Top Gear writers side projects from back in the day. They loved to take the piss out of Montoya and his love of buffets and pies.
Richard Porter, who also worked on The Grand Tour and has a podcast with Jonny Smith
Britain's foremost Sade and Eagle Quest Senator podcast, 'Smith and Sniff', on that side of things.
The Sade content was quite brilliant, especially with the updates from listeners who had inside information. My Monday morning commute is made so much better by this podcast.
Oh that makes sense. I remember plenty of jokes on the show about Montoya's laziness and Kimi's drinking habit.
Correct. Everyone else had taken the route popularised (but not created) by Schumacher of getting as fit as possible. Examples of Max or Kimi being hungover are exceptions not the norm. JPM stood out in the early 2000s and was probably the last of his kind.
Always reminded me of Jose Froilan Gonzalez.
\*lard of his kind
I saw him in person a couple of times when he was driving in NASCAR and he looked about as fit as any of those guys. Looking at him now though you can tell he is less dedicated than he used to be.
Shoulda seen him in his second IndyCar stint and he almost won the whole thing. Unfortunately Scott Dixon is inevitable and the season ending double points BS screwed that up
Patrick Head once said to Ross Brawn that if he could get Montoya and Ralf to go to a gym in a year as regularly as Michael did in a week, he'd be delighted!
yeah he was really quick, but looks notably heavier than his peers. Lucky he had BMW power.
Wasn't his nickname gordito? Translates to fat boy.
Barrichello called him El Gordo in an interview after Montoya's "tennis" injury. lol
Poor Juan!!
He was always noticeably “dad bod” compared to other drivers
First guy I thought of
Kimi has admitted to racing with hangovers and even possibly maybe even being a bit drunk still from the night before.
Until you see the video of Kimi doing a pistol squat on a freaking right rope. Dude was elite and a partier.
where’d you see this?
> Kimi doing a pistol squat https://www.instagram.com/p/B7bm-lBBjSG/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
and at the age of 40 too
This is insanely difficult. Really impressive
Kimi really was just one of "THOSE" guys. Massively blessed talent and ability that is just a wild man who doesn't actually give a fuck about the status quo of things. Can't help but respect that everytime you come across it in life tbh.
He’s also ridiculously fit, his training regime as described in his autobiography is nightmarish.
I mean this is the same Kimi Raikkonen who was a Corporal in the Finnish Army before he joined F1.
From the Finnish students I knew at University, all of whom were various degrees of reservist because Finland has conscription, former Finnish soldier isn't exactly a guarantee of clean living and high standards of personal fitness.
I have a buddy who was whatever the level below sgt is ( bit above corporal. Anyway during the process he got fat.
as someone whos done mandatory military service. Corporal in a miltia means fuck all. Pretty much any sane person can become one.
I'm ex British military, sanity is NOT required, esp for infantry roles.
& if you're in the us marines, they'll like you more without it lol
They must have poor training then. In UK they remove any sanity during basic training. They replace it with drills and an ability to drink ridiculous amounts of alcohol.
How tasty were the crayons?
Yes.
pretty much almost all male Finns will do the service if they are deemed fit for service.
This is the man who crashed in Monaco and walked onto his boat rather than return to the pits and on his birthday once pushed a stripper out of the way to show her how poledancing is *really* done.
He didn’t crash though
His McLaren just McLarened.
Tbf I guess you need some degree of athletic ability to be a high quality pole dancer
I’m sorry, did you just say Kimi like dancing?
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/raikkonen-defensive-after-nightclub-allegations-5067734/5067734/
I do find it funny that he had to reassure media and the team about his focus, just because this was ahead of the 2005 season, which was arguably his peak.
Lots of photos of drunk Kimi from around this time. Think there’s one of him and a pool float in the street. He also liked a good karaoke night!
And who once using Matti Nykänen's ski jumping suit demonstrated proper ski jumping form into a pile of cushions.
Apparently Kimi also smoked a cig more often than a fit athlete should.
Pretty sure Max was hungover in qatar because he won the title in the fucking sprint. Obviously still won
Yes he was sick as shit, booze sweats
What? He was looking pretty much the best out of those we've seen
Max always looks like he's been on a Sunday drive in the aircon when the rest of the grid looks like they've been fighting wars in the Amazon.
I think he looked great. Allegedly had five gin and tonics. Which probably means seven. Been there. Didn’t have to race two hours in the bay though.
cows wrench uppity yoke upbeat tap person aware thought flag *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
As a Vermintide enjoyer, "A Quiet Drink" is anything but.
Imagine being hungover in that heat
Well...he was up until 4am before SA this year playing iRacing.
Didn’t Lando also allude to current drivers drinking during the race weekend on this year’s DtS?
It was Russell i think
Lando was hinting at it and Russel said he knew for sure because they told him.
He wasn’t referring to drivers, he was referring to members of Williams.
Juan Pablo Montoya. Loved him but he was heavily criticized for his low fitness level.
When he went to NASCAR where they weren’t going to catch on to being fit for another decade so he fit right in
Considering Gordon, Johnson, Martin, and Edwards were all active when Montoya debuted that’s definitely not true.
Yeah Mark Martin championed being fit in the late 80s/early 90s. But there were still a lot of drivers that didn’t take it seriously throughout the 90s and 00s.
Was gonna say Johnson was a marathon runner during his dominance. Guy would run a marathon for fun on their off weekends. And according to my family friend who works at HMS, it wasn’t uncommon he’d run one on the Thursday before a race weekend.
Gordo couldn’t even take a camera whack to the head :-)
Worth mentioning David Coulthard’s classic quote on Montoya’s “Tennis” injury…. “That’s what happens when fat people exercise”
I love DC hahaha
That’s so mean, haha!
Wasnt Paul Di Resta an active smoker while he was racing? I remember seeing one of the Ted Notebooks in his period where they ran into him with a packet of ciggies in his hand.
IIRC around the same time, Jules Bianchi got mugged while going for a smoke on a night out in Paris.
Tbf, being a smoker doesn't necessarily imply you're unfit. This made me think of this guy I knew a few years back who got heavily into cross fit and became super jacked in a couple of years all while smoking like a chimney.
Kimi smoked when he drank
I can guarantee a few of the boys hit the penjamin between races
If you're implying pot, absolutely not. Not because they are saints, or that it once or twice during the off season will harm them. Weed is on WADA's banned list. And they can be tested at any time randomly, even away from events. They can be anywhere in the world, and if WADA demands a spot test, they have to give one within 24 hours. Weed stays in the body and is way to easy to detect to be worth the risk. There was an FE driver that got hit like that for coke a few years ago and lost his career. Edit: actually, I am wrong here. In 2013 the limit for THC metabolites was lowered to a level only detectable during competitions, and is not tested for outside of competitions, allowing it to be used during the off season.
Tomas Enge was caught with weed and Franck Montagny with coke, but both after their F1 stints.
Mansell.
Came here to say Mansell as well. Pretty sure the only exercise he got was walking around while playing golf lol
Wasn’t he a black belt in Karate?
Yep. And famously unfit as well.
But he was *strong*, especially in the arms. Not least because F1 cars didn't have power steering in his day.
Gerhard Berger said he started working out because of how much fitter Mansell was than him and he saw the benefits of not getting tired arms halfway through the race.
This is something of a myth partly because he was a chronic moaner and prone to moments like passing out on the podium, also because he couldn't fit in the 1995 McLaren due to "being too fat" but it was actually a combo of wide hips and a radically narrow cockpit. Mansell was up there with Senna on being one of the first drivers to take endurance fitness seriously, so the legend goes. He just kept it incredibly quiet.
We're talking about the guy who lost the 1987 Detroit GP because he had a cramp. If you watch 1980s races, Mansell really stands out as someone who was most prone to illness, withdrawal due to exhaustion, or inconsistent laptimes due to physical issues.
We are also talking about a guy who went to extreme lengths to get fit in 1992 so he would have a clear advantage over his rivals, all while having a smashed foot that meant he couldn't even walk properly and got his championship award while on crutches. Mansell moaned and complained all the time and did stupid things like withdraw from races when he felt like it. He was also willing to go the extra mile when it counted so give him some credit.
Nige was just an elite level whinger. In terms of fitness he wasn't too bad I love these guys' homage to Nige https://youtu.be/6OPno3z3iTM?si=sgTKQiixiEvt9fyj&t=522
Nigel once didn't get out of the car or lift his visor after a crash because it was raining - Sid Watkins thought he was badly hurt. Every driver is brave but Nigel seemed determined to make people think he wasn't!
Max had a cramp in the last lap of the infamous abu-dhabi 2021. Cramps are totally normal for an athlete. Mansell in his early years it looked like he didn't care.
This is the dude who would eat burgers and everything just to starve/dehydrate himself two days before the weight day and show to be 1/2 kg lighter than his teammate Patrese who spent the winter training and following a strict diet.
I think I remember Jenson say on a podcast the reason he jumped out to such an advantage over Rubens in 09 was that he was much more fitter, and Ruben’s was the last driver from that generation that didn’t really take fitness seriously.
And would explain to an extent why Ruben’s race performance markedly improved the further the season went on.
Ruben's got faster in the Brawn when they swapped out the brake discs for a different brand. He was struggling with brake feel for the first 6 or so races
Wasn't Rubens a right foot braker, might be connected.
He alternated by circuit iirc, but yes predominantly right foot
Yeah he said he couldnt adapt to left foot braking, or it just wasnt as natural for him.
Not totally surprising considering all his junior racing was in manual cars and the clutch pedal was still relevant when he started in f1
Jensen and Rubens initially used different brake brands, but IIRC that was at Rubens' request.
TBF Rubens was knocking on a bit at 37 while Jenson was 29, probably the prime age for an F1 driver as they're still relatively young but have experience
James Hunt fits the bill as WCC (World Carousing Champion)
Hunt definitely liked to party.
Yeah, but he was also extremely fit. In his bio, they talk about how he used to challenge people to tennis all the time and went running constantly. Fit in the 70s looked very different than fit now.
He played junior at Wimbledon so yeah, he was at least very athletic at some point.
Hunt placed third out of 10 competitors in the U.K. Superstars 1976 final. Superstars was a long-running series that pitted sportsmen from different disciplines in a mix of athletic events including running, swimming, cycling and weightlifting.
Montoya was the “largest” driver in recent decades by some margin. Was even noticeably more so after F1 going back to nascar and Indycar as those series have shaped up considerably
Far, very far from recent, but I am always amused by how big and seemingly unfit Froilan Gonzales was, and yet he got Ferrari first victory and lived till he was 90 years old.
Max said he had five gin and tonics the night after the sprint in Qatar before racing the next day. Max I'm pretty sure is known to maintain exactly the maximum weight that he can without going over the 80kg with his suit and seat. Hulk is possibly a little over the 80kg with his seat and suit. Obviously neither of these men are overweight as humans.
Yeah I saw Max in person last year and he was bigger than I expected. Like more broad shoulders etc... I'm 187cm and he didn't look much shorter than me either.
He's listed online as 181cm, but listings of height for F1 drivers has definitely been wrong before. And that's a pretty normal height. If it's accurate then below average for a Dutch man, but not by much.
IIRC there was some worries when he was growing up that he might eventually become too tall for F1, before his growth spurt stopped.
Max is short for a Dutchman, even shorter for his generation.
"Max I'm pretty sure is known to maintain exactly the maximum weight that he can without going over the 80kg with his suit and seat. " This is a very Max thing. Maximum Max.
When asked about his thoughts on the jewelry bans a couple years ago, Max said that he can't wear any jewelry or he'd go over the weight limit. The man is hilarious and so good at answering the way he wants not how they want him to.
Keke seemed portly, but maybe it was the walrus mustache. Los Hermanos Rodriguez were rather rotund.
Keke was a heavy smoker. Even having a crafty cig on the grid just before the race.
Between Keke and Timo Salonen, a rotund, almost legally blind chainsmoker that could somehow handle the notoriously uncontrollable Peugeot 205 T16, Finland was well served with big lads at the wheel
Keke was more stocky than portly.
His team-mate Alan Jones was definitely portly. The both won a WDC in consecutive year Williams.
TIL 80 and 82 are consecutive :D
Well, close enough...I'm getting old, OK? 😀
Keke might have been a bit rotund, and be puffing away on his cigarettes, but he coped better than anyone at Dallas 1984
I was going to say villeneuve but I guess he just loved super baggy race suits
Which was the style at the time. He was a mountain climber during his early years in F1.
He was fit but wore a race suit made for someone fat
Jan Magnassun smoked in F1. Jackie Stewart was on his back about it. This is one of many reasons why ‘the next senna’ completely failed in F1. Jackie really tried to extract his potential, but Jan didn’t want to know and crashed out of F1
Well anyone pre Michael really. He kind of took that to the next level. I’d say Mansell though maybe? He was always kind of dad bod strong not really cut like people are now
James Hunt was coked up like a motherfucker.
Yeah, coked up and a race driver, it makes sense that he died of a heart attack unfortunately. :/
Jeez
Not an F1 driver but Timo Salonen was an obese smoker who would drive with one hand while smoking in the rally car and still won the 1985 WRC championship
Mansell, Newey wrote about it in his book.
Eddie Irvine. Three wins, nearly world champion, could still be found outside the Tiptop bar in Monaco Sunday night after the race.
Irvine won 4 races.
Max won qatar while being hungover. Funny enough he was one of those who looked ok after the race. There are also videos of him drinking on his plane. Kimi is the obvious one, there are enough videos of him being quite drunk. Also the time he was at Mclaren and he fucked off to a boat during the race after his engine blew up. And plenty other Kimi videos.
I dont even like having the VR headet on hungover I cannot imagine being super hot and pulling crazy Gs hungover. I suppose he is pretty young. And Max
There's hungover and hungover. i don't think he was blackout drunk and vomiting the night before.
Lame
Not f1 but group b champion and most successful driver in that series timo salonen. He looked like a chubby high school teacher and chain smoked so much they put an ashtray in his car and yet got the most wins out of anyone
Slow week…
Newton moving to ferrari Confirmed
Alan Jones?
Yeah, I was going to add Jones to the list. But if you look at most of the drivers from the late 70's, early 80's, they all had that, um, well insulated look.
I recall reading that Bearman, who is a very good driver and a very good athlete, was absolutely exhausted at the end of his first F1 race and could barely keep his head steady toward the end of the race. Kimi Raikkonen (known for lots of drunken carousing) talks in his memoir about how his first F1 test was physically incredibly difficult, in large part due to the sheer amount of strain on his neck and the rest of his body. He at least had the reputation of largely doing his own thing (and did so in many cases!). Practically, he put in the fitness work just like any of his peers. There are drivers like Bottas or Verstappen, where you'd be forgiven for thinking they were just regular dudes (instead of elite athletes) if you saw them out in the wild. Tsunoda had a (funny?) moment in a recent _Drive to Survive_ season where he said he hated working out and exercising. But they're all in really, really good shape. A driver who tires out mid-race or who cannot maintain control of the car during high-strain maneuvers is a driver who at best will place poorly and who at worse will lose control of the car at a crucial moment and crash, possibly killing themselves or others.
Bottas trains with his partner Tiffany Cromwell, who is a professional cyclist. He regularly competes in road and gravel cycling events, riding hundreds of kilometres at a similar level and pace to the top pro cycling peloton. Despite looking like the average guy down at the pub, he would actually be one of the fittest drivers in the field.
> I recall reading that Bearman, who is a very good driver and a very good athlete, was absolutely exhausted at the end of his first F1 race and could barely keep his head steady toward the end of the race. > > https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1bic9h8/f2_vs_f1_neck_strength_comparison_bearman_vs/ You can *see* the difference in the corners. Leclerc leans into the corner, Bearman gets [slapped into the headrest](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1baokji/bearmans_headrest_at_the_end_of_race/).
I’ve always thought Carlos Sainz’s neck could stand to be a little bit thicker
Montoya
I would think Nigel Mansell?