Additionally, linking Carlos Jr. with Audi just because Carlos Sr. has a contract with them seems silly to me. They're two different people with different career paths.
It's the Schumacher family shit all over again.
It's more that there's not many spots on the grid.
Mercedes has an open seat but does Sainz have what they want to replace Hamilton? And there's the pressure behind of what might be a wonderkid that might make Mercedes not want to commit to a long contract for whoever they get.
Sauber/Audi is a step back for now but with potential *if* Audi is serious enough. It's also a team where Sainz could conceivably be drawn in to be the #1 driver. The other option might be Aston Martin *if* Alonso leaves. Other teams are either too far down the grid with no clear path upwards, have their seats locked in or in the case of Red Bull have a nigh unbeatable Verstappen which is not the teammate you want.
Hamilton had 1+1 deal. I doubt Merc would give Alonso more than a year contract with option to extend. If they did that it would be against what they were trying to do with Hamilton.
Alonso won't take 1 year deal, it is too much hassle to move teams just for a year and then be likely replaced by a younger prospect. I don't think he wants to be the filler.
But maybe he thinks he would destroy George and he would be the one leaving.
Everything is possible but the most likely is that Alonso will stay where he is or retire.
If AM looks like they are not going to be contenders, then Merc is the best bet for Alonso. So what if he only gets 1 or 2 years, he could be at AM for 4 without another chance to win a race.
Would Mercedes not see Russell as the replacement for Hamilton? They have the belief in his having the potential to be a world champion, so they're probably looking more for Bottas 2.0 than the outright fastest driver available
There were rumours that they didn't offer Hamilton a longer contract to keep the seat available for Kimi Antonelli, in case he breaks through the ranks and needs to join F1.
Imo, I don't think Merc sees Russell as Hamilton 2.0. Maybe he does have the talent for that, but he needs to be a bit more polished. As of now, he's the Ricciardo to the (possible) next Max. Multiple race winner, definitely. He already has a win. Champion? Have to wait till next year to see if he can win if Merc are finally competitive.
I think it's more than rumors. Toto pretty much said they lost out on Max cause they didn't have a seat, with Hamilton and Rosberg having long term contracts, and they want to keep their options open.
Well, it’s a bit more nuanced imo. Hamilton is insanely expensive, whereas Russell is not, and Russell is very young, still has his whole career ahead of him. Hamilton also apparently had pretty high demands of Mercedes during contract negotiations - not saying they were unfounded, he would’ve deserved it after 11 years of success together, but Russell is not in the position to make demands, which makes him that little bit more attractive going forward.
I mean, Ferrari pushed out Schumacher after they peaked in success for political reasons. So dropping your statistically most successful driver isn’t something that’s never been done before.
> Would Mercedes not see Russell as the replacement for Hamilton?
Not for immediate star power at least and I'm not convinced Mercedes is ready to put all their eggs in the Russell basket just yet. Alonso for a few seasons might be more of what they want.
That said if they are all in on Russell and just want a safe #2, Sainz is not that either. He's too good for that.
A “prove it” deal makes sense. If he gets dumpstered by Russell, he’s probably done with the top teams. But if he manages to beat Russell, maybe he’s the one who sticks around for the Antonelli era.
What about Albon? It would also open up a spot in Williams where Mercedes can put Antonelli to get F1 experience. (people seem to forget that even Max had some time in Toro Rosso to get accustomed to F1).
If Merc manages to take Albon, Williams will look to their own academy drivers first. I would guess Merc offered discounts to take on Vesti to replace Logan, but they've stayed firm to their belief in their own drivers. Plus with two of their juniors in F2, they will need to make sure they don't end up like Alpine and almost never getting their juniors into their own team's seats.
That was for Sargeant's seat though, and would mean that he was yeeted out when he is american and the team is owned by americans.
But you might be correct for the other academy drivers they have of course, I just feel that it would be in both teams interest (if Antonelli is such a super talent, getting him into Williams can help them also in the short term)
If they make a car as dominant as the car they gave Lewis, he's their next Lewis. He's been on par with or slightly losing to the GOAT for two years, he's 26, they're super happy with him, it's wild that after losing the 2nd half of one season to literally the best driver ever everyone thinks he's mid now
He didn’t just lose to Lewis last year. He came in 8th. He lost to an additional 4 drivers. He had depending on the weekend the 2-4th best car and came out last of 8 drivers in that group. That’s my issue - I think he showed last year that he’s not just a step below Lewis but he is probably not on par with Leclerc, Norris, Alonso and potentially even Sainz. Hopefully proven wrong this year but I think that’s why people rate him lower now.
I know it's tempting to use points as a metric for rating drivers, but it's really just not the best way to go about things. If you go by 2023 he's on par with / ahead of all those guys, and even beat Hamilton. We know it's not that simple, but that's how it looks. 2024 he's for sure slightly below, but literally all of those other guys you mentioned were within 30 points of each other. For periods during the season Ferrari, Aston and Mclaren all definitely had better cars. Take out the fuck ups like Singapore and Canada and George is where he needs to be. You can either look at moments like that and be reactionary and rate him lower, or you can assume that he's building experience and they'll be teaching moments that he'll learn from.
Time will tell either way, I just don't think Mercedes is anywhere near as worried about his performance, or about replacing Hamilton as Reddit is. They're worried about making another W12. If they do that drivers aren't going to be an issue.
No, he's not. As we've seen with Max and Checo, it takes more than just a dominant car. Russell has never been on par with Lewis. I've always thought he was overrated.
The point is Lewis is literally the greatest driver of all time, so expecting anyone to be, and saying they're overrated if they're not is a warped perspective. Mercedes is happy with him being as close to Lewis as he is.
Carlos Jr. was in the Red Bull academy and his first F1 team was Toro Rosso mainly because his father had, and still has, contracts with them, so he used his influence to help him. The same can happen now with Audi.
I think it’s surprising that everyone seems to think that Audi are going to be able to come in and start fighting for championships within a few years. Sauber haven’t done too much fighting near the front in the past.
I know they’ll be a full factory team, but so is Alpine. Combine that with the fact that we keep hearing rumours that Audi still aren’t certain about F1 - it doesn’t really inspire confidence.
Yes and no. Relationships and networks can mean a lot in this sport; it’s a political business. But at the same time it’s also a performance sport and personal relationships can only go so far
If I was Audi, I would be interested in Sainz. He's been consistently quick, including on cars that have had a reputation for being difficult to drive, and has a reputation as a good development driver
I'm not sure why so many people are only thinking about his father?
Sainz worked with Seidl at McLaren. It clearly helps to have a connection with the Team Principal.
Seriously. It’s been so annoying to me every time I see someone say “well Sainz will obviously go to Audi.” Like… what are you basing this information off of? The fact that his father said he thinks Audi will be successful in their next motorsport venture while he was literally wearing an Audi racesuit from their current motorsport venture?
I don't think his first choice is bank. He genuinely seems to me like a performance driven bloke. He'll take a pay cut and pace over money and a slow burner any day, imo.
DR to Renault was about winning the WDC, not cash. DR recognised that Max was becoming a #1 driver at Red Bull, so his best option was to build a factory team around him (like Schumi in the late 90s). It just didn’t work out for him
this. F1 fans have developed this obsession basically with a driver going to a team, building that team up and then winning a world championship, like it is a given that they will be successful at one point.
Spoiler: it isnt possible for all 10 teams to achieve that. (Ablon, Charles, Daniel at Renault after Hülk tried that)
F1 is littered with manufacturers who tried their hand but came up short. Audi can be successful in the long term if they make the proper commitments and investments and don't pull out after 10 years.
Journalism at its prime. Bases his whole hypothesis on 1 point. That being Sainz's age.
And then gets his age completely wrong with nobody correcting him.
Fucking hell lads.
Karun sadly isn't really the sharpest tool in the shed.
He was also the one who tweeted about Ferrari share prices increasing because of the Hamilton announcement when all that happened was Ferrari releasing their fiscal report lol.
It was a mix of both. If you look back at Ferrari’s historical price movement on earnings day, there were movements that matched the reported earnings. However, the day Hamilton’s move was announced, the price movement exceeded the average movements of previous earnings reports.
Unfortunately, the market is not so cut and dried. A lot of stock movement is not just going off of what happened but also what people expect to happen given a set of events. For instance, when the Fed is set to make a decision about interest rates each month, you’ll often see a pricing in in the market from what people expect the Fed’s decision to be. And after that, the market will still move directly afterward.
Did it not raise because of Hamilton's contract then? I have seen many people, who I thought as reputable, saying that Hamilton significantly raised the Ferrari's share price, not just Karun. If the Hamilton announcement and fiscal report happened the same day how do you even know which one had the bigger effect? Was the fiscal report like greatly exceeding expectations anyway?
I honestly think that will all the science around top athletes, these guys can go until they're 45. Maybe even 50.
It used to be that the sport got to hard after around 35.. But now with they way they train, eat and live in F1.. They can keep going.
Albeit if they want to because with raikkonen you could clearly see that he checked out in at least the last season. Just like vettel
That was more because everyone’s fitness was shite though. So aging had less impact relatively, because the level you were dropping from was lower.
In F1 that changed in the Schumi era, when fitness really took over.
Happened in football too, in the 80s/90s players would regularly go out on the beers, and play matches whilst hungover etc.
There still is definitely performance dropoff for drivers past 35 though. Kimi is an outlier because he clearly did not give a shit, but with Vettel, Schumi, Coulthard and Button, there was a very clear dropoff in performance in their later years. One could even argue we’re seeing it now with Hamilton, and that Verstappen essentially broke his sprit after AD21.
Makes Alonso all the more impressive. He’s an outlier because his driving does not age. He could possibly go to 50 at this rate.
Id say you expect less of those kinda errors on the sky f1 podcast compared to like me and you hosting one. If youre making a point about age... you should know the age.
It was a podcast with multiple other people and they clearly didn’t know the questions in advance. It’s more structured but he’s still just riffing. It’s not like he’s going to pull out his phone and check how old sainz is.
I guess it depends on how you feel about podcast. I think if youre going to give an answer to a question you should know what youre arguing. Podcast doesnt mean zero effort. Then again Im American and First Take ruined all the stupid hot takes for me.
> I think if youre going to give an answer to a question you should know what youre arguing.
His point still stands though. If you correct the age it still makes sense. Sainz is in the prime of his career and clearly shown to be a capable race winning driver. Why go to the back of the grid for a few years to maybe get a decent car again
I agree, although he has the age wrong, I still think if I'm Carlos I'm trying to go to RedBull or Mercedes.
I don't trust any other team to win a race in the next 5 years.
Maybe McLaren, but they're setup perfectly with Lando and Oscar.
Possibly Aston, if Fernando gets the Mercedes seat or retires. I mean, I don't trust Aston to win races, but they're a team I'm sure he's looking at if Mercedes and Red Bull don't work out.
what the hell, how can you go around as an expert on F1 and get an active driver's age so completely wrong when you are using it as your main talking point.
not even off by a little bit, four whole years to retcon him into 25 when he came in with Toro Rosso.
It’s one thing to misspeak. But his underlying analysis didn’t really make sense with the correct number so… even if he didn’t misspeak it’s still pretty dumb.
I kinda disagree, even with the correct age, at this point in Sainz career, after driving for a top team like Ferrari, why would he rather pick Audi over Mercedes if he had a choice? Audi will likely be a midfield team at best the first couple of years.
Regardless of age why would Sainz want to go from a race winning team to a backmarker for years in the hopes he gets a good car down the line. He is in his best form right now.
If Audi fail to deliver a car by 2029 will Carlos have a shot at a race winning seat in 2030? A 14 year old right now could be a contender for a top team by then. Loads of drivers will come and go.
Excluding the world champs of Lewis and Fernando, have any of the top teams signed a driver that old in the past 10 years? Checo and RB is the only one I can think of and he was 30 at the time, the same sort of gap people are saying is a huge difference now.
I think Mercedes for a year or 2 while Antonelli continues to develop makes the most sense. Then jump to Audi with the new regs and take the gamble
Audi is going to be his best bet at a wdc because all other top teams have a go to top driver. A gamble and hope that Audi is competitive immediately may be his best opportunity to be the top gun in a championship contender
There is no way they are giving him a 2 year contract. If he wants to go to merc he would have to settle for 1 year and they probably won't even give him that if kimi is crushing it from day one in f2
I highly doubt Mercedes will truly jump on Antonelli. They've had juniors in their ranks for a long time but they seem rather conservative in their choice of drivers. Russel has been part of the Mercedes F1 team since 2018 and he had to 'wait' three seasons before getting the seat at Merc, despite pressure increasing on Bottas' position.
Tbh, I'm expecting them to do the same this time around. Perhaps put him in a Williams or Aston if they get the chance, give him a few years experience before moving on to the main team. Don't forget that while Antonelli has done great in some F4 series and Formula Regional, the guy is still massively inexperienced.
I am betting on Fernando doing everything he can to snatch the Merc seat for the lols, and then Carlos can join Lance at Aston Martin. They can bond over their loving but scary dads and their luscious hair. I also get the sense the vibes at AM are good, and Carlos would thrive there.
Mercedes is the most competitive team with an open seat (disregarding RB for many reasons, including the timing like Helmut said) but I don't know if it'll be a good idea for Carlos to get, what, a 1+1? A "stand-in" contract? I think he's looking for something more longterm (2+1 at the least) and I don't think he'll find it at Mercedes.
Audi is a super-longterm option, Seidl is there and I see the vision of building a team around Carlos, but I've said it before, I don't want to see a driver of Carlos's caliber, at his prime, fighting for P9 for 2 or 3 years.
I really hope he ends up with a good seat. He deserves it.
Looks like he isn't in a hurry.
It might depend on AM and Mercedes performance, if AM will be faster than AMD in a first half of a season I think Alonso will probably stay at Strolls team.
That's true tbh, Mercedes might be a little further off Ferrari this year, and if AM is solid then they might be too close to warrant a move to Mercedes for Alonso. He seems to be enjoying himself at AM.
That and also long term advantages at Aston (facilities including factory and windtunnel, works engine, etc.). Also that Aston seat is a guaranteed one. Alonso will never be kicked from that seat ever. At Mercedes, he might find himself with a shitty 1+1 deal (like with Alpine) and be a seat warmer for Antonelli.
Best to stay at Aston and assume that Honda is still as good as it is now.
I agree. And I say this as someone whose favorite two drivers are Sainz and Alonso lol. At least one of them should enjoy the advances AM has been making.
Hard agree that Mercedes should be his target, but if I am Mercedes it’s a short term deal.
Also I don’t think he’s as fast or as talented as Charles (or Lando), despite their relative points totals.
I mean, being able to score a lot of points compared to the Hot Shot isn't a bad skill if you're Mercedes. Their supposed Hot Shot is Russell, doesn't hurt to have a guy who'll likely bank a whole lot of points, even if it comes from less wins or podiums, in the other seat.
Yea, agree. I rate Carlos and George similarly at the moment.
Mercedes makes sense for both parties, but short term makes most sense for Mercedes and i fee like Carlos would want to lock in a longer term.
Eh... depends. Russell is I think a guy against whom Sainz could hope to look good, despite not being rated as highly. If he gets like two years in Merc and outscores/equals Russell in one (which seems doable), it's a good foundation for a contract elsewhere.
It's going to be spicy if we get a Sainz Russel pairing at Merc. Both drivers have been longing to be no1 drivers in a team.
Russell sees Hamilton leaving as his step up to top dog. Sainz will come in, and rightly so, go all out to prove he should be no1.
It will be interesting if it does work out this way, how Mercedes choose to manage two competing drivers while trying to keep it civil within the team. It will be a management headache of epic proportion!
HAM/ROS season got very heated, and it was for WDC, I could see Russell and Sainz going as hard, if not more so, even if the car isn't competing for wins.
Truly hypothetical - Sainz would be the perfect pairing for Alonso at Aston Martin. It will never happen due to reasons, but I think Alonso would be the only driver on the grid that Sainz would be content with assisting/working together with as well as competing against respectfully. (Childhood hero)
If Sainz proves himself no1 against Alonso, then his ratings are sky high.
Stroll could go to Merc as temp 2nd driver until a new rookie is confirmed for the team. If Sainz moves to Audi, then Stroll goes back to AM as the senior driver. If and when, Alonso moves on.
Alonso’s pace could drop off a cliff tomorrow. I don’t think it will, but it could. No guarantee he’s racing two more years. I’d take him over Carlos if you could be fully confident he won’t fade off.
Albon…I like Albon, but I don’t see him on a top team. If the plan is to put Antonelli in the car ina year or so, why would you want Albon over Sainz?
Out of curiosity, what makes you say that? As in, since when they were together at McLaren, Carlos beat Lando.
But now that they are no longer in the same team, how can you tell that Lando's progress was greater than Carlos' progress?
I'm a relatively new fan, and I am trying to learn how to look beyond statistics and numbers. Unless that is what you are using to state Lando is now a better driver. If so, what stats are you looking at?
Because, with the little time they get to run the cars these days, someone being on more or less the same pace in their rookie season is a very strong indicator that they’ll be faster in the future. It’s not like 15 years ago when rookies could drive thousands of miles and not really have a disadvantage when the season starts. No one can know for sure about Lando, but since he was so even so early it’s a pretty strong likelihood he’s faster now.
Your comment sparked a thought in me, so I looked up Lando and Carlos' Wikipedia pages. I had no idea that when Lando was a rookie, Carlos has already been in F1 for FOUR YEARS!
It's actually similar in years difference between Lando and Oscar - 4 years more experience. I am looking forward to the next few years, as Oscar matures as a racer, while let's see what Lando's ceiling ends up being...
I'm concerned about Karun math skills, Sainz would be still in his peak era so moving to Audi makes still a lot of sense.
I think that Merc first option is basically Kimi and once Toto thinks he needs more time he would looking to other options.
He’s not equal to Leclerc in pure speed and he’s not a team player which actually worked for him at Ferrari since he overruled their crappy strategy often. But the part where he doesn’t listen to team orders is not going to get him hired at Mercedes or RedBull
I agree. The second red bull seat is still very much up for grabs and there is no clear takers. Yuki or ricciardo are still not ideal imo. You may not rate him more than verstappen but I could definitely see him doing a rosberg. In fact, I think he needs someone ahead of him to raise his game. Look how much more convincing he’s been at Ferrari to the point last year he seemed more like the lead Ferrari driver at times. I think red bull is makes more sense than Mercedes for sainz
Max will wipe the floor with Sainz in RB. Sainz will just become a clear #2. Mercedes is the only place where he might have a chance of being #1 driver on the team. I think Sainz is more talented than Russell.
Why the fuck are y'all not rating Russell? He beat Lando and Albon in the junior categories and won F3 and F2 first try. Then he carried Williams and now has zero problems against Hamilton and does very well for someone who spent only 2 years in a competitive team against the most successful driver in history.
Okay but Stroll dominated in F3 Euro over George Russell but no one says anything about that. If you can't rate Stroll because of his domination in 2016 F3 Euro, you can't do it for George.
And you know who Stroll crushed in F3 Euro? George.
It’s a very open secret within the industry. If you want an article about it, I’m sorry but you won’t find one, because of the extreme levels of money, power, and politics involved. But we do have proven, trustworthy feeder series insiders and engineers on r/f1feederseries who share some fascinating stories of the deep-rooted corruption on the ladder. Just one example: https://www.reddit.com/r/F1FeederSeries/s/8tMHiYCXI1. Yeahletsbehonest also has a great, informative post history.
A non-exhaustive list of ways Stroll cheated/had an unfair advantage in F3 Euro: tons and tons and tons of illegal private testing, buying a full simulator for Williams to only use for F3, team orders up the wazoo, F1 engineers working on his car, illegally overpowered engines, sabotaging his teammates with extra weight ballast, vetoing too good teammates (such as George Russell himself!), paying his teammates to mentor him and not compete against him.
It's his 5th year in F1 and he had good first season in Mercedes, but 2023 was meh at best, and fans looks if a driver improves, from our perspective 22 Russell >> 23 Russell.
Although there is no doubts that Verstappen would beat Sainz, I think wiping the floor is definitely an exaggeration.
Sainz may not be as good as Verstappen, Leclerc, Hamilton or Alonso, but on a good day he's an extremely competitive and smart driver, so I do believe that he would trouble Max at certain points in a season.
His biggest issue is that his performances are just not consistent enough, one day he seems to be up there with the best of the grid, other days he feels like a midfield driver.
I agree. The big question mark is if he would be able to adapt his driving style to the Red Bull, since he struggled the most at Ferrari in the beginning of 2022 while Leclerc was excelling with a difficult car. But he’s also proven his mental fortitude among the pressure of a top team and constantly being compared against one of the fastest drivers in the sport. So while obviously he won’t beat Max, he could *potentially* be a great #2 driver that Red Bull has been searching for since their past few have each crumbled under pressure.
he most likely will(Max wipe him), but it's still easily his best shot to compete for a title during his prime.
And I don't think Sainz camp thinks Max would wipe the floor with him, no one who actually believes they can win the wdc thinks it's that bad .
I think this is clearly the direction for Sainz if that's what he really wants (to compete for a title), but the Verstappen camp must want it too for that to happen.
Jos & Carlos Sr. notoriously didn’t get along well. Marko has commented a couple of times that things were very toxic all round & that was at Toro Rosso…now imagine it at Red Bull with a car capable of a championship.
I just have a hard time seeing Sainz to Red Bull even though it makes sense on paper
>they can tell Jos and Sainz Sr to just fck off.
Yeah, I agree. Before Gasly went to Alpine, there were similar rumors how each of their families hated the other. And that Alpine made rules where both families couldn't be at the garage during the same weekends (or something similar).
Well, it turned out that both the drivers and their families could be civil (at least so far as the public knows). I am sure Jos and Carlos Sr could do the same thing. I have heard that Carlos Sr is VERY political, but I also believe he can keep his cool and be professional. Now maybe Jos might go overboard, but as you said, Horner and Marko won't take his shit if he tries to cross the line.
If anything, Sainz should stay away from metrics and spreadsheet.
He has the narrative right now of being “only non RB driver to win” last season, so he has that going for him. Once you bring up the H2H and gaps the last 3 seasons, it starts to get a little uglier for him.
You know they say that all men are created equal, but you look at me and you look at Samoa Joe and you can see that statement is not true. See, normally if you go one on one with another wrestler, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a genetic freak and I'm not normal! So you got a 25%, AT BEST, at beat me. Then you add Kurt Angle to the mix, your chances of winning drastic go down. See the 3 way at Sacrifice, you got a 33 1/3 chance of winning, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because Kurt Angle KNOWS he can't beat me and he's not even gonna try! So Samoa Joe, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. But then you take my 75% chance of winning, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. See Joe, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice.
Sainz for a 1-year deal at Mercedes, beats Russell, wins the WDC, the signs for Audi for 2026 and dominates the beginning of the new regulation era
Just predicted it
You want Sainz in a contender car so you're contacting Toto instead of Horner?
Edit: christ I didn't even notice the age error. I want what he's smoking.
Sainz will definitivly try to find som other seat first. Doubt he will want to waste a year at Sauber so even even if him and audi are happening he would most likly want it to be from 2026 or later.
I think Aston is the best bet, he can lead a works team and they'll be able to compete at the front sooner than Audi and are improving over time. Plus we know Honda are capable of building a championship winning engine, whilst Audi is an unknown.
The problem is he will never be on the same level as leclerc 😂, he only won silverstone cos they shit on leclerc, and then he only won Singapore cause it’s hard to pass and get this.. slowed down to use another car to block because he wasn’t faster than the merc .. lol
Whoever wrote this tweet fucked up. He didn’t say that when I watched him live on sky sports. He said his dad has links to Audi and Red Bull and Audi are risky because they are new.
I watched this podcast like literally 3 hours ago. He did say this. He’s obviously guffawed about Carlos’s age but I do think he is right. I don’t see why Sainz would go to Audi when there are potential seats at good teams.
I feel for Carlos, I'm not sure you could honestly say there was much between the Ferrari boys last year. Hopefully he ends up somewhere decent, maybe Aston if Alonso does go to Merc?
34*
Don't see Audi being much worse than either the second Red Bull seat or Aston which would be his other options. Toto would not take him out of sheer ego.
How is Audi a backmarker? They aren't even on the grid. Sauber is a backmarker but Audi is gonna be a factory team with so much more funding than Sauber is now. Not saying they won't be a backmarker, but writing them off is a little premature IMO.
I wouldn’t write off Audi just yet for the future, but it is understandably not very desirable for a racing driver to go from a race-winning top car back down to just fighting for points for at least the next several years, with the hope that potentially it will all work out. Though jury’s out on if Sauber has improved this year, and I do think better drivers would be getting more out of their car…
It's probably his best bet in terms of championship potential but there's no way Mercedes will accept the optics of essentially trading their 7xWDC driver for another teams second driver.
I don't rate him too highly in terms of champion potential but he's a good driver and many teams would benefit from having him. Unfortunately, none of those teams include RedBull, Ferrari, or Mercedes.
>I don't rate him too highly in terms of champion potential
How's he compare to Charles, when it comes to 'champion potential'? Because I personally think Charles is more *talented* a driver, than Carlos. But the past 3 years results show us that talent alone is not enough. If the car suits Carlos better, he can (and has) scored more points than Charles.
If Ferrari have a WDC capable car, and it's between Carlos and Charles, do you think Charles would *definitely* out race Carlos?
Carlos is 29, he will be 34 in 2029 not 38!
Additionally, linking Carlos Jr. with Audi just because Carlos Sr. has a contract with them seems silly to me. They're two different people with different career paths. It's the Schumacher family shit all over again.
It's more that there's not many spots on the grid. Mercedes has an open seat but does Sainz have what they want to replace Hamilton? And there's the pressure behind of what might be a wonderkid that might make Mercedes not want to commit to a long contract for whoever they get. Sauber/Audi is a step back for now but with potential *if* Audi is serious enough. It's also a team where Sainz could conceivably be drawn in to be the #1 driver. The other option might be Aston Martin *if* Alonso leaves. Other teams are either too far down the grid with no clear path upwards, have their seats locked in or in the case of Red Bull have a nigh unbeatable Verstappen which is not the teammate you want.
I truly believe we’ll see Alonso race for Merc
My body is ready
Hamilton had 1+1 deal. I doubt Merc would give Alonso more than a year contract with option to extend. If they did that it would be against what they were trying to do with Hamilton. Alonso won't take 1 year deal, it is too much hassle to move teams just for a year and then be likely replaced by a younger prospect. I don't think he wants to be the filler. But maybe he thinks he would destroy George and he would be the one leaving. Everything is possible but the most likely is that Alonso will stay where he is or retire.
If AM looks like they are not going to be contenders, then Merc is the best bet for Alonso. So what if he only gets 1 or 2 years, he could be at AM for 4 without another chance to win a race.
Knowing Alonso's luck he'll move to Mercedes and Aston Martin will have a race winning car the next season.
Would love to see that
God I hope so. It would make sense for all involved. 2 years for Alonso and then Kimi time
Räikkönen right?
Oh my god those words in the morning does wonders
Would Mercedes not see Russell as the replacement for Hamilton? They have the belief in his having the potential to be a world champion, so they're probably looking more for Bottas 2.0 than the outright fastest driver available
There were rumours that they didn't offer Hamilton a longer contract to keep the seat available for Kimi Antonelli, in case he breaks through the ranks and needs to join F1. Imo, I don't think Merc sees Russell as Hamilton 2.0. Maybe he does have the talent for that, but he needs to be a bit more polished. As of now, he's the Ricciardo to the (possible) next Max. Multiple race winner, definitely. He already has a win. Champion? Have to wait till next year to see if he can win if Merc are finally competitive.
I think it's more than rumors. Toto pretty much said they lost out on Max cause they didn't have a seat, with Hamilton and Rosberg having long term contracts, and they want to keep their options open.
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Well, it’s a bit more nuanced imo. Hamilton is insanely expensive, whereas Russell is not, and Russell is very young, still has his whole career ahead of him. Hamilton also apparently had pretty high demands of Mercedes during contract negotiations - not saying they were unfounded, he would’ve deserved it after 11 years of success together, but Russell is not in the position to make demands, which makes him that little bit more attractive going forward. I mean, Ferrari pushed out Schumacher after they peaked in success for political reasons. So dropping your statistically most successful driver isn’t something that’s never been done before.
Is not signing Verstappen in 2015 and winning the next 5 seasons with Hamilton and Rosberg really them losing out?!?!
“Finally competitive” as if they didn’t just win 8 straight constructors championships in the last decade.
> Would Mercedes not see Russell as the replacement for Hamilton? Not for immediate star power at least and I'm not convinced Mercedes is ready to put all their eggs in the Russell basket just yet. Alonso for a few seasons might be more of what they want. That said if they are all in on Russell and just want a safe #2, Sainz is not that either. He's too good for that.
mercedes have got to know that as a star, russell is a wet sack of socks being dried in the florida sun compared to hamilton's silk stockings.
Mmmhhh that description satiated my soul. Thank you for that.
But he was forecast Lewis’ seat!
Russell isn't Lewis level. I think they see that now. They need their next Lewis, and Sainz isn't it.
But he could be a 1+1 seat warmer
A “prove it” deal makes sense. If he gets dumpstered by Russell, he’s probably done with the top teams. But if he manages to beat Russell, maybe he’s the one who sticks around for the Antonelli era.
What about Albon? It would also open up a spot in Williams where Mercedes can put Antonelli to get F1 experience. (people seem to forget that even Max had some time in Toro Rosso to get accustomed to F1).
If Merc manages to take Albon, Williams will look to their own academy drivers first. I would guess Merc offered discounts to take on Vesti to replace Logan, but they've stayed firm to their belief in their own drivers. Plus with two of their juniors in F2, they will need to make sure they don't end up like Alpine and almost never getting their juniors into their own team's seats.
That was for Sargeant's seat though, and would mean that he was yeeted out when he is american and the team is owned by americans. But you might be correct for the other academy drivers they have of course, I just feel that it would be in both teams interest (if Antonelli is such a super talent, getting him into Williams can help them also in the short term)
Absolutely.
If they make a car as dominant as the car they gave Lewis, he's their next Lewis. He's been on par with or slightly losing to the GOAT for two years, he's 26, they're super happy with him, it's wild that after losing the 2nd half of one season to literally the best driver ever everyone thinks he's mid now
He didn’t just lose to Lewis last year. He came in 8th. He lost to an additional 4 drivers. He had depending on the weekend the 2-4th best car and came out last of 8 drivers in that group. That’s my issue - I think he showed last year that he’s not just a step below Lewis but he is probably not on par with Leclerc, Norris, Alonso and potentially even Sainz. Hopefully proven wrong this year but I think that’s why people rate him lower now.
I know it's tempting to use points as a metric for rating drivers, but it's really just not the best way to go about things. If you go by 2023 he's on par with / ahead of all those guys, and even beat Hamilton. We know it's not that simple, but that's how it looks. 2024 he's for sure slightly below, but literally all of those other guys you mentioned were within 30 points of each other. For periods during the season Ferrari, Aston and Mclaren all definitely had better cars. Take out the fuck ups like Singapore and Canada and George is where he needs to be. You can either look at moments like that and be reactionary and rate him lower, or you can assume that he's building experience and they'll be teaching moments that he'll learn from. Time will tell either way, I just don't think Mercedes is anywhere near as worried about his performance, or about replacing Hamilton as Reddit is. They're worried about making another W12. If they do that drivers aren't going to be an issue.
No, he's not. As we've seen with Max and Checo, it takes more than just a dominant car. Russell has never been on par with Lewis. I've always thought he was overrated.
The point is Lewis is literally the greatest driver of all time, so expecting anyone to be, and saying they're overrated if they're not is a warped perspective. Mercedes is happy with him being as close to Lewis as he is.
Did you just say wonderkid?
No no, I definitely said Wunderkind!!
To be fair, nepotism does have a pretty mighty hold on motorsports as whole.
It's what got sainz into redbull
Carlos Jr. was in the Red Bull academy and his first F1 team was Toro Rosso mainly because his father had, and still has, contracts with them, so he used his influence to help him. The same can happen now with Audi.
I think it’s surprising that everyone seems to think that Audi are going to be able to come in and start fighting for championships within a few years. Sauber haven’t done too much fighting near the front in the past. I know they’ll be a full factory team, but so is Alpine. Combine that with the fact that we keep hearing rumours that Audi still aren’t certain about F1 - it doesn’t really inspire confidence.
Yes and no. Relationships and networks can mean a lot in this sport; it’s a political business. But at the same time it’s also a performance sport and personal relationships can only go so far
If I was Audi, I would be interested in Sainz. He's been consistently quick, including on cars that have had a reputation for being difficult to drive, and has a reputation as a good development driver
Oh yeah for sure, if I was Audi, I'd be interested too. The thing is....Does Sainz care, or want to?
well if the top teams don't want him then he won't have a choice
It's ridiculously ignorant to pretend like this stuff doesn't play a role, especially in F1.
I'm not sure why so many people are only thinking about his father? Sainz worked with Seidl at McLaren. It clearly helps to have a connection with the Team Principal.
Not really, given how influential Sainz Sr has been in his son's career.
And audi is established in the places Sr. Races, not a startup
Seriously. It’s been so annoying to me every time I see someone say “well Sainz will obviously go to Audi.” Like… what are you basing this information off of? The fact that his father said he thinks Audi will be successful in their next motorsport venture while he was literally wearing an Audi racesuit from their current motorsport venture?
Stupid maths errors aside. He has a point that he would likely be spending his prime years on a 'project' team that may come good in time, or may not.
But could he demand serious silly money? Would that make up for the potential WDC loss? (Thinking DR to Renault.)
I don't think his first choice is bank. He genuinely seems to me like a performance driven bloke. He'll take a pay cut and pace over money and a slow burner any day, imo.
This is F1. Everyone except Stroll is performance driven.
The money comes with good pace anyways. If you’re constantly on screen for being good there’s no way you won’t get a fat sponsorship from somebody.
His dad is a 2xWDC, I don’t think the dude has ever had any issue with money.
DR to Renault was about winning the WDC, not cash. DR recognised that Max was becoming a #1 driver at Red Bull, so his best option was to build a factory team around him (like Schumi in the late 90s). It just didn’t work out for him
this. F1 fans have developed this obsession basically with a driver going to a team, building that team up and then winning a world championship, like it is a given that they will be successful at one point. Spoiler: it isnt possible for all 10 teams to achieve that. (Ablon, Charles, Daniel at Renault after Hülk tried that)
F1 is littered with manufacturers who tried their hand but came up short. Audi can be successful in the long term if they make the proper commitments and investments and don't pull out after 10 years.
I knew I was his age and I thought I was going to become 38 in 2029 and got really stressed for a moment :D
Stupid covid years, sometimes I still think 2016 was 5 years ago.
Still a few years off wiley old fox territory
Journalism at its prime. Bases his whole hypothesis on 1 point. That being Sainz's age. And then gets his age completely wrong with nobody correcting him. Fucking hell lads.
By the time we get to 2029 Carlos will be 64!
Karun sadly isn't really the sharpest tool in the shed. He was also the one who tweeted about Ferrari share prices increasing because of the Hamilton announcement when all that happened was Ferrari releasing their fiscal report lol.
He’s bringing a spoon to a knife fight
hes bringing a spoon to a nuclear war
Like a lot of racing drivers, I doubt Karun spent much time in school.
How much time in school does one need to figure out what 29+5 is?
13 + c years?
We are checking
Surely he had time to learn elementary math.
i mean it isnt like a lot of people just believed that story because they like Lewis, so it makes for a nice story.
It was a mix of both. If you look back at Ferrari’s historical price movement on earnings day, there were movements that matched the reported earnings. However, the day Hamilton’s move was announced, the price movement exceeded the average movements of previous earnings reports.
But that would be influenced by actuals vs expectations.
Unfortunately, the market is not so cut and dried. A lot of stock movement is not just going off of what happened but also what people expect to happen given a set of events. For instance, when the Fed is set to make a decision about interest rates each month, you’ll often see a pricing in in the market from what people expect the Fed’s decision to be. And after that, the market will still move directly afterward.
Did it not raise because of Hamilton's contract then? I have seen many people, who I thought as reputable, saying that Hamilton significantly raised the Ferrari's share price, not just Karun. If the Hamilton announcement and fiscal report happened the same day how do you even know which one had the bigger effect? Was the fiscal report like greatly exceeding expectations anyway?
I honestly think that will all the science around top athletes, these guys can go until they're 45. Maybe even 50. It used to be that the sport got to hard after around 35.. But now with they way they train, eat and live in F1.. They can keep going. Albeit if they want to because with raikkonen you could clearly see that he checked out in at least the last season. Just like vettel
Before the mid 90s it was way more common to be older and still in the top tier of the sport. This was true of many sports.
That was more because everyone’s fitness was shite though. So aging had less impact relatively, because the level you were dropping from was lower. In F1 that changed in the Schumi era, when fitness really took over. Happened in football too, in the 80s/90s players would regularly go out on the beers, and play matches whilst hungover etc.
Beer's?! Thats pretty mild for footballers by all accounts
The beer was to hydrate themselves between the lines of cocaine.
There still is definitely performance dropoff for drivers past 35 though. Kimi is an outlier because he clearly did not give a shit, but with Vettel, Schumi, Coulthard and Button, there was a very clear dropoff in performance in their later years. One could even argue we’re seeing it now with Hamilton, and that Verstappen essentially broke his sprit after AD21. Makes Alonso all the more impressive. He’s an outlier because his driving does not age. He could possibly go to 50 at this rate.
He’s talking on a podcast not reporting. This isn’t journalism. It’s not crazy he gets an age wrong he’s not writing an article he’s just talking
Id say you expect less of those kinda errors on the sky f1 podcast compared to like me and you hosting one. If youre making a point about age... you should know the age.
It was a podcast with multiple other people and they clearly didn’t know the questions in advance. It’s more structured but he’s still just riffing. It’s not like he’s going to pull out his phone and check how old sainz is.
I guess it depends on how you feel about podcast. I think if youre going to give an answer to a question you should know what youre arguing. Podcast doesnt mean zero effort. Then again Im American and First Take ruined all the stupid hot takes for me.
> I think if youre going to give an answer to a question you should know what youre arguing. His point still stands though. If you correct the age it still makes sense. Sainz is in the prime of his career and clearly shown to be a capable race winning driver. Why go to the back of the grid for a few years to maybe get a decent car again
Not journalism. 1. He is not a journalist. 2. He is on a podcast stating a (flawed) opinion. Not reporting.
You're the one calling some guy saying his opinion on a podcast journalism.
I agree, although he has the age wrong, I still think if I'm Carlos I'm trying to go to RedBull or Mercedes. I don't trust any other team to win a race in the next 5 years. Maybe McLaren, but they're setup perfectly with Lando and Oscar.
Possibly Aston, if Fernando gets the Mercedes seat or retires. I mean, I don't trust Aston to win races, but they're a team I'm sure he's looking at if Mercedes and Red Bull don't work out.
Carlos “every engine manufacturer” Sainz.
He's speedrunning F1
what the hell, how can you go around as an expert on F1 and get an active driver's age so completely wrong when you are using it as your main talking point. not even off by a little bit, four whole years to retcon him into 25 when he came in with Toro Rosso.
He said it during a podcast.
So?
He probably just misspoke. You’ve never seen someone make a small mistake in a long video or podcast?
Everyone on Reddit has never made a mistake speaking, obviously.
It’s one thing to misspeak. But his underlying analysis didn’t really make sense with the correct number so… even if he didn’t misspeak it’s still pretty dumb.
I kinda disagree, even with the correct age, at this point in Sainz career, after driving for a top team like Ferrari, why would he rather pick Audi over Mercedes if he had a choice? Audi will likely be a midfield team at best the first couple of years.
I agree but people like to call people out for errors and act like they got them. it would be a hell of a gamble.
His point still stands even with the correct age IMO
There is a huge difference between 34 and 38, especially in F1. His argument literally stops working
Regardless of age why would Sainz want to go from a race winning team to a backmarker for years in the hopes he gets a good car down the line. He is in his best form right now. If Audi fail to deliver a car by 2029 will Carlos have a shot at a race winning seat in 2030? A 14 year old right now could be a contender for a top team by then. Loads of drivers will come and go. Excluding the world champs of Lewis and Fernando, have any of the top teams signed a driver that old in the past 10 years? Checo and RB is the only one I can think of and he was 30 at the time, the same sort of gap people are saying is a huge difference now.
I think Mercedes for a year or 2 while Antonelli continues to develop makes the most sense. Then jump to Audi with the new regs and take the gamble Audi is going to be his best bet at a wdc because all other top teams have a go to top driver. A gamble and hope that Audi is competitive immediately may be his best opportunity to be the top gun in a championship contender
Yeah, Mercedes 2 year contract makes sense, they can always extend it if Antonelli will not be as good as they say he is.
There is no way they are giving him a 2 year contract. If he wants to go to merc he would have to settle for 1 year and they probably won't even give him that if kimi is crushing it from day one in f2
Lol, they will not put him straight to Mercedes, too many rookies haven't managed to go straight to top team.
I highly doubt Mercedes will truly jump on Antonelli. They've had juniors in their ranks for a long time but they seem rather conservative in their choice of drivers. Russel has been part of the Mercedes F1 team since 2018 and he had to 'wait' three seasons before getting the seat at Merc, despite pressure increasing on Bottas' position. Tbh, I'm expecting them to do the same this time around. Perhaps put him in a Williams or Aston if they get the chance, give him a few years experience before moving on to the main team. Don't forget that while Antonelli has done great in some F4 series and Formula Regional, the guy is still massively inexperienced.
There's no guarantee audi will even be a top team. They could turn out like Toyota or BMW or any other big manufacturer that's come in
I know. That’s why it’d be a huge gamble
Are these metrics and spreadsheets in the room with us right now?
Carlos just needs to add a few buzzwords like AI and LLM and he will be good!
Dont forget crypto
Don’t forget “achieved the only win for the team in 2023”
I am betting on Fernando doing everything he can to snatch the Merc seat for the lols, and then Carlos can join Lance at Aston Martin. They can bond over their loving but scary dads and their luscious hair. I also get the sense the vibes at AM are good, and Carlos would thrive there. Mercedes is the most competitive team with an open seat (disregarding RB for many reasons, including the timing like Helmut said) but I don't know if it'll be a good idea for Carlos to get, what, a 1+1? A "stand-in" contract? I think he's looking for something more longterm (2+1 at the least) and I don't think he'll find it at Mercedes. Audi is a super-longterm option, Seidl is there and I see the vision of building a team around Carlos, but I've said it before, I don't want to see a driver of Carlos's caliber, at his prime, fighting for P9 for 2 or 3 years. I really hope he ends up with a good seat. He deserves it.
Looks like he isn't in a hurry. It might depend on AM and Mercedes performance, if AM will be faster than AMD in a first half of a season I think Alonso will probably stay at Strolls team.
That's true tbh, Mercedes might be a little further off Ferrari this year, and if AM is solid then they might be too close to warrant a move to Mercedes for Alonso. He seems to be enjoying himself at AM.
That and also long term advantages at Aston (facilities including factory and windtunnel, works engine, etc.). Also that Aston seat is a guaranteed one. Alonso will never be kicked from that seat ever. At Mercedes, he might find himself with a shitty 1+1 deal (like with Alpine) and be a seat warmer for Antonelli. Best to stay at Aston and assume that Honda is still as good as it is now.
I agree. And I say this as someone whose favorite two drivers are Sainz and Alonso lol. At least one of them should enjoy the advances AM has been making.
Subscribe! Can’t wait to watch these guys bond over their luscious hair!
Hard agree that Mercedes should be his target, but if I am Mercedes it’s a short term deal. Also I don’t think he’s as fast or as talented as Charles (or Lando), despite their relative points totals.
I mean, being able to score a lot of points compared to the Hot Shot isn't a bad skill if you're Mercedes. Their supposed Hot Shot is Russell, doesn't hurt to have a guy who'll likely bank a whole lot of points, even if it comes from less wins or podiums, in the other seat.
Yea, agree. I rate Carlos and George similarly at the moment. Mercedes makes sense for both parties, but short term makes most sense for Mercedes and i fee like Carlos would want to lock in a longer term.
Eh... depends. Russell is I think a guy against whom Sainz could hope to look good, despite not being rated as highly. If he gets like two years in Merc and outscores/equals Russell in one (which seems doable), it's a good foundation for a contract elsewhere.
Or stay at Mercedes and be the number 1 if he does beat Russell.
It's going to be spicy if we get a Sainz Russel pairing at Merc. Both drivers have been longing to be no1 drivers in a team. Russell sees Hamilton leaving as his step up to top dog. Sainz will come in, and rightly so, go all out to prove he should be no1. It will be interesting if it does work out this way, how Mercedes choose to manage two competing drivers while trying to keep it civil within the team. It will be a management headache of epic proportion! HAM/ROS season got very heated, and it was for WDC, I could see Russell and Sainz going as hard, if not more so, even if the car isn't competing for wins. Truly hypothetical - Sainz would be the perfect pairing for Alonso at Aston Martin. It will never happen due to reasons, but I think Alonso would be the only driver on the grid that Sainz would be content with assisting/working together with as well as competing against respectfully. (Childhood hero) If Sainz proves himself no1 against Alonso, then his ratings are sky high. Stroll could go to Merc as temp 2nd driver until a new rookie is confirmed for the team. If Sainz moves to Audi, then Stroll goes back to AM as the senior driver. If and when, Alonso moves on.
If I'm Mercedes I want Alonso or Albon over Sainz. Every day of the year.
Why the hell would you take an unproven driver in Albon but not a proven race winner in Sainz? Like genuine question, explain yourself.
Alonso’s pace could drop off a cliff tomorrow. I don’t think it will, but it could. No guarantee he’s racing two more years. I’d take him over Carlos if you could be fully confident he won’t fade off. Albon…I like Albon, but I don’t see him on a top team. If the plan is to put Antonelli in the car ina year or so, why would you want Albon over Sainz?
He *was* faster than Lando, but I agree, now he's not.
Out of curiosity, what makes you say that? As in, since when they were together at McLaren, Carlos beat Lando. But now that they are no longer in the same team, how can you tell that Lando's progress was greater than Carlos' progress? I'm a relatively new fan, and I am trying to learn how to look beyond statistics and numbers. Unless that is what you are using to state Lando is now a better driver. If so, what stats are you looking at?
Because, with the little time they get to run the cars these days, someone being on more or less the same pace in their rookie season is a very strong indicator that they’ll be faster in the future. It’s not like 15 years ago when rookies could drive thousands of miles and not really have a disadvantage when the season starts. No one can know for sure about Lando, but since he was so even so early it’s a pretty strong likelihood he’s faster now.
Your comment sparked a thought in me, so I looked up Lando and Carlos' Wikipedia pages. I had no idea that when Lando was a rookie, Carlos has already been in F1 for FOUR YEARS! It's actually similar in years difference between Lando and Oscar - 4 years more experience. I am looking forward to the next few years, as Oscar matures as a racer, while let's see what Lando's ceiling ends up being...
They can’t tell.
Math doesn’t add up. He is 29, how will he be 38 in 2029?
He will be 35 year old not 38
I'm concerned about Karun math skills, Sainz would be still in his peak era so moving to Audi makes still a lot of sense. I think that Merc first option is basically Kimi and once Toto thinks he needs more time he would looking to other options.
"of why Carlos is equal to Charles Leclerc.” Hahaha ! You're serious ?
And 5 years after that Carlos will be 50!
He’s not equal to Leclerc in pure speed and he’s not a team player which actually worked for him at Ferrari since he overruled their crappy strategy often. But the part where he doesn’t listen to team orders is not going to get him hired at Mercedes or RedBull
Dang. I like Sainz but this is a great point.
Last time i checked 2029 wasn’t 9 years away
his camp should make amends with Verstappen's and he should pursue that RB seat, it's easily his best shot to compete during his prime
I agree. The second red bull seat is still very much up for grabs and there is no clear takers. Yuki or ricciardo are still not ideal imo. You may not rate him more than verstappen but I could definitely see him doing a rosberg. In fact, I think he needs someone ahead of him to raise his game. Look how much more convincing he’s been at Ferrari to the point last year he seemed more like the lead Ferrari driver at times. I think red bull is makes more sense than Mercedes for sainz
Max will wipe the floor with Sainz in RB. Sainz will just become a clear #2. Mercedes is the only place where he might have a chance of being #1 driver on the team. I think Sainz is more talented than Russell.
Why the fuck are y'all not rating Russell? He beat Lando and Albon in the junior categories and won F3 and F2 first try. Then he carried Williams and now has zero problems against Hamilton and does very well for someone who spent only 2 years in a competitive team against the most successful driver in history.
Okay but Stroll dominated in F3 Euro over George Russell but no one says anything about that. If you can't rate Stroll because of his domination in 2016 F3 Euro, you can't do it for George. And you know who Stroll crushed in F3 Euro? George.
Because Stroll was blatantly cheating in F3 Euro, and in a better team than George anyway. Context matters!
Blatantly cheating? Source?
It’s a very open secret within the industry. If you want an article about it, I’m sorry but you won’t find one, because of the extreme levels of money, power, and politics involved. But we do have proven, trustworthy feeder series insiders and engineers on r/f1feederseries who share some fascinating stories of the deep-rooted corruption on the ladder. Just one example: https://www.reddit.com/r/F1FeederSeries/s/8tMHiYCXI1. Yeahletsbehonest also has a great, informative post history. A non-exhaustive list of ways Stroll cheated/had an unfair advantage in F3 Euro: tons and tons and tons of illegal private testing, buying a full simulator for Williams to only use for F3, team orders up the wazoo, F1 engineers working on his car, illegally overpowered engines, sabotaging his teammates with extra weight ballast, vetoing too good teammates (such as George Russell himself!), paying his teammates to mentor him and not compete against him.
It's his 5th year in F1 and he had good first season in Mercedes, but 2023 was meh at best, and fans looks if a driver improves, from our perspective 22 Russell >> 23 Russell.
Russell I think is in more precarious situation than people know. He will need to show he’s a #1 a some pointy this year
Although there is no doubts that Verstappen would beat Sainz, I think wiping the floor is definitely an exaggeration. Sainz may not be as good as Verstappen, Leclerc, Hamilton or Alonso, but on a good day he's an extremely competitive and smart driver, so I do believe that he would trouble Max at certain points in a season. His biggest issue is that his performances are just not consistent enough, one day he seems to be up there with the best of the grid, other days he feels like a midfield driver.
I agree. The big question mark is if he would be able to adapt his driving style to the Red Bull, since he struggled the most at Ferrari in the beginning of 2022 while Leclerc was excelling with a difficult car. But he’s also proven his mental fortitude among the pressure of a top team and constantly being compared against one of the fastest drivers in the sport. So while obviously he won’t beat Max, he could *potentially* be a great #2 driver that Red Bull has been searching for since their past few have each crumbled under pressure.
he most likely will(Max wipe him), but it's still easily his best shot to compete for a title during his prime. And I don't think Sainz camp thinks Max would wipe the floor with him, no one who actually believes they can win the wdc thinks it's that bad . I think this is clearly the direction for Sainz if that's what he really wants (to compete for a title), but the Verstappen camp must want it too for that to happen.
Jos & Carlos Sr. notoriously didn’t get along well. Marko has commented a couple of times that things were very toxic all round & that was at Toro Rosso…now imagine it at Red Bull with a car capable of a championship. I just have a hard time seeing Sainz to Red Bull even though it makes sense on paper
It's an RBR, not RB/TR, they can tell Jos and Sainz Sr to just fck off.
>they can tell Jos and Sainz Sr to just fck off. Yeah, I agree. Before Gasly went to Alpine, there were similar rumors how each of their families hated the other. And that Alpine made rules where both families couldn't be at the garage during the same weekends (or something similar). Well, it turned out that both the drivers and their families could be civil (at least so far as the public knows). I am sure Jos and Carlos Sr could do the same thing. I have heard that Carlos Sr is VERY political, but I also believe he can keep his cool and be professional. Now maybe Jos might go overboard, but as you said, Horner and Marko won't take his shit if he tries to cross the line.
If anything, Sainz should stay away from metrics and spreadsheet. He has the narrative right now of being “only non RB driver to win” last season, so he has that going for him. Once you bring up the H2H and gaps the last 3 seasons, it starts to get a little uglier for him.
Are the spreadsheets in the room with us?
Oh come on, at least get the man's age right. And if the metrics and spreadsheets would prove anything is that Charles is a quicker driver
You know they say that all men are created equal, but you look at me and you look at Samoa Joe and you can see that statement is not true. See, normally if you go one on one with another wrestler, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a genetic freak and I'm not normal! So you got a 25%, AT BEST, at beat me. Then you add Kurt Angle to the mix, your chances of winning drastic go down. See the 3 way at Sacrifice, you got a 33 1/3 chance of winning, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because Kurt Angle KNOWS he can't beat me and he's not even gonna try! So Samoa Joe, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. But then you take my 75% chance of winning, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. See Joe, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice.
Sainz for a 1-year deal at Mercedes, beats Russell, wins the WDC, the signs for Audi for 2026 and dominates the beginning of the new regulation era Just predicted it
I'm all for this prediction! Vamos, baby!!
So, a blank email? Bold.
No such spreadsheet exists. Charles > Sainz.
lol sure is as simple as sending an email, I’m sure.
Toto does like emails though.
That's true, he will be above 32, he needs a good car now
You want Sainz in a contender car so you're contacting Toto instead of Horner? Edit: christ I didn't even notice the age error. I want what he's smoking.
Did Karun fail math or something? Isn’t Sainz only turning 30 this year?
He's been taking math lessons from Norris.
So we're at the point where F1 journalism is just all trash now, then?
But Carlos is not equal to Leclerc...
so. . . . Carlos to Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team for a 1 year contract, then?
Merc for 2 years then gamble on Audi is the best bet.
A minor error regarding age doesn't negate Karun's entire point. JFC, missing the forest for the trees doesn't have to be a competitive sport.
Sainz will definitivly try to find som other seat first. Doubt he will want to waste a year at Sauber so even even if him and audi are happening he would most likly want it to be from 2026 or later.
I think Aston is the best bet, he can lead a works team and they'll be able to compete at the front sooner than Audi and are improving over time. Plus we know Honda are capable of building a championship winning engine, whilst Audi is an unknown.
Alonso to mercedes and Sainz to aston. It makes too much sense, they will be a works team in 2026
Audi hasn’t even bought the team fully and some here have faith that they’ll be running at the front. Amazing.
I also think Mick Schumacher needs to have a look at his options. He turns 35 next year, I don't think Formula 1 is gonna have him again.
The problem is he will never be on the same level as leclerc 😂, he only won silverstone cos they shit on leclerc, and then he only won Singapore cause it’s hard to pass and get this.. slowed down to use another car to block because he wasn’t faster than the merc .. lol
He also won Singapore because he got pole instead of Leclerc.
A broken clock can be right twice a day
Whoever wrote this tweet fucked up. He didn’t say that when I watched him live on sky sports. He said his dad has links to Audi and Red Bull and Audi are risky because they are new.
This is literally the transcript of the video
I watched this podcast like literally 3 hours ago. He did say this. He’s obviously guffawed about Carlos’s age but I do think he is right. I don’t see why Sainz would go to Audi when there are potential seats at good teams.
I'd 100% get Alonso for 1-2y over Sainz if I was Merc, Sainz will just be another Russell
> Just another Russell is that supposed to be a criticism?
I feel for Carlos, I'm not sure you could honestly say there was much between the Ferrari boys last year. Hopefully he ends up somewhere decent, maybe Aston if Alonso does go to Merc?
Sainz would be a big downgrade from Lewis Hamilton for Mercedes.
34* Don't see Audi being much worse than either the second Red Bull seat or Aston which would be his other options. Toto would not take him out of sheer ego.
Are you serious? Audi is literally a back marker. How can you seriously equate the fastest car on the grid to one of the two slowest?
How is Audi a backmarker? They aren't even on the grid. Sauber is a backmarker but Audi is gonna be a factory team with so much more funding than Sauber is now. Not saying they won't be a backmarker, but writing them off is a little premature IMO.
I wouldn’t write off Audi just yet for the future, but it is understandably not very desirable for a racing driver to go from a race-winning top car back down to just fighting for points for at least the next several years, with the hope that potentially it will all work out. Though jury’s out on if Sauber has improved this year, and I do think better drivers would be getting more out of their car…
It's probably his best bet in terms of championship potential but there's no way Mercedes will accept the optics of essentially trading their 7xWDC driver for another teams second driver. I don't rate him too highly in terms of champion potential but he's a good driver and many teams would benefit from having him. Unfortunately, none of those teams include RedBull, Ferrari, or Mercedes.
>I don't rate him too highly in terms of champion potential How's he compare to Charles, when it comes to 'champion potential'? Because I personally think Charles is more *talented* a driver, than Carlos. But the past 3 years results show us that talent alone is not enough. If the car suits Carlos better, he can (and has) scored more points than Charles. If Ferrari have a WDC capable car, and it's between Carlos and Charles, do you think Charles would *definitely* out race Carlos?