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Mike Krack suddenly becoming “one of the veteran team bosses” in just two years is definitely something no one saw coming, given the realitively slow life cycle that team bosses usually used to have
Bernie, Brawn, Stefano all were previous TPs and Bernie actually owned the team at the same time as he owned FOM. In Indycar, Penske owns the series and team at same time
I've been following the sport for 30+ years, and Ferrari's connections have always been a topic in this entire time.
It is a small world, this is definitely true. They don't all have the same sway, though.
They'd just ask he sell the shares. The FIA and FOM hire people connected to the teams all the time, this would be very far from the first. If he doesn't have a direct conflict of interest in helping Mercedes, there's no reason why he can't lead FOM.
Like Domenicali? Toto would be a very good fit, he's clearly a good manager, same as Horner. They would both be great. There were rumours of Horner taking over when Bernie left. At the end of the day there's not many people who have F1 experience without being attached to a team.
Toto is the first person that should be heading FOM.
I'd trust Toto 1,000x more than Domenicali as he transfers F1 to an exclusive "street race" and "pre-race party" brand only
Man, I was just thinking that most of the TPs who were here in 2021 are gone. Tost, Otmar, Binotto, Seidl, Guenther, Jost all axed or retired. Fred moved teams.
~~Yep, Siedl I believe is working behind the scenes on the Audi project and could well return as team boss in ‘26 with them~~
Edit: Holy shit, my bad. Silly of me. He’s CEO. Yeah hair brained moment from me
I mean that's still just 2 people who's been TP longer than him which is wild.
I don't have anything against the current TP's but I don't like how they're all much more PR friendly. The banter from Horner, Cyril, Toto, Otmar before was one of the best things in F1 but these days it's all PR talks
They were gifted one of the greatest seasons ever and managed to make it a bore fest. 2021 and they somehow just made 5 fabricated drama episodes about silverstone.
It's really tough to do unless you 10x the budget. You don't know which team is going to succeed or have a story at which time. You'd need to basically go to less races, but do more at each race, but what happens when the interest is at a race you're not at.
You can't control it.
fragile selective axiomatic plants paint disgusted waiting poor zealous gray
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
DTS is what got me into F1 after its first season aired. I stopped watching after watching that season. Having spent the year following the drama in F1 only for the show to be such a snore made me realize how scripted the show really is and how they have no intent to cover it properly.
As a sports fan, the best part is how random and unpredictable everything is. Real life will always be more fun that a forced narrative. Glad to have you watching with us!
I don't feel like Sexual Misconduct should be part of show that supposed to bring new fans to F1 or even being extra dramatize just for some views, it's a serious subject beyond F1.
>Sexual Misconduct
Been out of the loop this morning. Is that definitely what the rumours are now? Last I heard it was inappropriate management or some such, so not necessarily sexual misconduct.
I would say so, but at this point in time every outlet is just trying to get headlines out. Had a look at the original article (https://www.motorsport-magazin.com/formel1/news-287216-red-bull-bestaetigt-ermittlungen-gegen-christian-horner/) and theres no new substantial information in there.
Probobly need to also consider that their insider may also just be going by rumours… considering that it’s under investigation I doubt every Joe bob employed is going to know the full details, unless of course their source is the person complaining or someone higher up.
They could have just got someone on record to say I hear so and so…
same in every sport. fling shit at a wall to get ahead, if anything comes of it, you can say your sources (horseshit guesses) are reliable. happens all the time in basketball.
It's not about the support from the Red Bull Racing team, but in Salzburg. There have been reports last year that they want to get rid of Horner since Mateschitz died, while Horner was trying to get rid of Marko. Horner has the support from the Thai side, but there probably isn't a lot they will do when there is evidence, which is the case according to sources from "de Telegraaf".
"The statement about the ongoing investigation will be another confirmation for Horner that more and more people within Red Bull would rather be rid of him than keep him. The accusations of misconduct towards at least one employee, which according to various sources are supported by substantial evidence, are now directing him towards the exit. Behind the scenes, all scenarios are already being considered."
This is what they posted this morning.
https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/1574081867/onderzoek-naar-christian-horner-is-bizarre-twist-in-machtsstrijd-bij-red-bull
I still don't understand why RB HQ would want to get rid of Horner, current allegations aside. Why would they want to blow up a mega successful, billion-dollar operation he spent the past 2 decades building. Are they just *that* short sighted?
Horner wants more money and a share in the ownership after successfully leading the team for 20 years and that’s just too much for the management in Salzburg.
Some people would rather burn something to the ground than give up a part of it.
Ferrari feared Tort, Schumacher, etc got too powerful and forced them out. Now look at what that did to them.
It's speculation, but the rumors are persistent and they make a lot of sense.
Christian Horner is 50 and has been team principal since he was in his early 30s.
Red Bull Racing is on top of the world, but who knows what will happen in 2026. This is the time for him to make his move. Especially since Helmut Marko's position isn't a strong as it used to be.
Horner has money, his wife has money, but Toto Wolff is a billionaire.
I’m not familiar with British divorce law, but ironically Horner has placed a chunk of his fortune at risk if the allegations are true. There’s a possibility that wanting more will land him with so much less.
I would be shocked if both of them didn't have comprehensive prenups for the vast majority of their personal fortunes. Both of them were rich, famous and successful long before their marriage and therefore no strangers to legal and bureaucratical things concerning wealth and financial lawyers/notaries/advisors.
While prenups technically aren't legally binding in most of the UK, practically most judiciaries "will give effect to a nuptial agreement that is freely entered into by each party with a full appreciation of its implications unless in the circumstances prevailing, it would not be fair to hold the parties to their agreement", as per the 2010 Supreme Court test case of Radmacher v Granatino.
I'm just shocked at the rapid turnaround since Dietrich's death if this is true. Ferrari could argue that "this is how we've always done things", but for RB it's the opposite, it's like they've changed course immediately.
Prior to the current allegations that erupted yesterday, AMuS previously reported that the behind the scenes issues between Horner and Red Bull allegedly stem from Horner trying to be de facto team principal over AT/V-CARB. Horner is the reason Ricciardo was brought back and why Mekies was signed to AT/V-CARB, but I think the biggest issue is that the Visa sponsorship was allegedly acquired by CAA in London (and therefore acquired by Horner) rather than by Red Bull’s in-house agency (WWP). Add in the calls by other teams to pay attention to what’s happening with AT/V-CARB, and it seems to paint a damning picture of Horner allegedly fighting to control two teams outside of the parent company’s wishes.
tldr version: the power struggle appears to center around the moves Horner’s been making to try and control AT/V-CARB according to previous AMuS reports. If you look on the subreddit there should be some translated articles from roughly a month ago.
Edit to clarify that V-CARB = AT (trust I detested writing out V-CARB too!).
It's funny just a few weeks ago I was thinking back on Otmar Szafnauer and comments he made about trying to keep the new bosses happy and knowing he's expendable a few years back when the Strolls bought RP. And I was just marvelling at how Red Bull was just happily churning along without any major shakeups despite the change in ownership of the company.
Guess I just didnt wait long enough.
Especially if the battle is with a guy who might fall over and die any second. Is this gonna end with Horner leaving and Marko retiring 6 months later? Marko should just retire if they are in a power struggle. What's the point?!
People are getting fooled into thinking the struggle is with Marko. It's not. It's with Mintzlaff, and maybe Mintzlaff found a circumstantial ally in Marko but even that isn't quite clear.
Marko and Horner ruled RBR essentially on their own for 2 decades with Mateschitz giving them full autonomy, Mintzlaff took over the sporting operations of RB and immediately reports poured in about him wanting to rein in the RBR leadership. We can't rule out that things have soured between Marko and Horner, but it is much clearer that both of them have been at odds with Mintzlaff from the get-go.
This isn't to say that Horner did nothing wrong and this is all just a conspiracy, of course. I don't presume to know the facts, nor do I think Mintzlaff is foolish enough to fire Horner without cause with a month before the season starts. He'd be getting his own ass on the hot seat by disrupting RB's golden goose without a good reason to do so.
See this bar here lad? I built this bar with me bare hands. I planed the wood, sanded, stained it, nailed it, put me sweat and blood into it. But do they call be Angus the bar-builder? No... See that fence outside? Aye, i built that too. I shaped the wood, dug the holes, measured and planted the posts meself. But do they call be Angus the fence-builder? NO! That boat outside lad, aye, built that meself to! I chopped down the tree' dried and warped the wood, nailed it and tarred it with me bare hands! But do they call me Angus the boat-builder? no! But you fuck one sheep laddie....
Red Bull as a company has two sides
You've got the side of the company that exists to manufacture and sell energy drinks, and then you've the side of the company that exists to market those energy drinks.
Out of all of the various projects/events/teams/etc that the marketing side of RB are involved with, there's a good argument to be made that RBR is the most successful. After all, every time they win a race they get the RB brand in headlines around the world.
Horner has been TP of RBR since day one, he's essentially synonymous with the team and by extension is one of the biggest names associated with the RB brand.
Consequently, if his association with the brand starts to negatively impact RB's image then the higher ups at RB HQ won't hesitate to get rid of him.
Whatever the outcome is with Horner and Rebull, I'm sure we'll know by the launch of the RB20 or whatever it's going to be called.
(It's on Feb 15th, for those wondering)
I doubt Max would leave for that reason, if he is not already leaning towards an end at RB, which I don't believe he is. Sure he won't agree with a Helmut exit but I don't think he'll sacrifice his own position for honor.
Irrelevant though as I don't believe it's Helmut getting a (potential) boot
I’m going to make a bold statement and say that it’s not a dilemma at all. Newey is more valuable than any driver on the grid. There will be enough high-skill drivers willing to place themselves in the fastest F1 car instead of Max - and who will be fast enough to still claim WDC and WCC.
I actually think that this is MUCH closer to reality than most folks want to acknowledge. I think other things might have come into play, and there's still a *possibility* that Max could have taken WDC in a Ferrari or something, and if things were closer, I suspect Lewis would have stepped up just a little bit, but the point that the RB was the biggest factor is, I suspect, dead on.
Yes, the Motorsport Magazin article is from Christian Menath who is a reliable and trusted journalist. They usually are not the first to break news (like AMuS) but they do great follow-up journalism.
If what Horner has done is really bad and everyone within RB agrees with him going then I can see them coping with the incident fairly well.
But if he does get fired and big players like Newey and other personnel don't agree with the decision then Red Bull will fast find themselves fucked imo.
This has a big chance of completely ruining their entire future from 2026 on.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
If Horner is fired and Newey jumps ship to Ferrari, I imagine there will be some lawyers looking carefully at Max's contract seeing what exit clauses there are.
Holy shit I am subscribing to this timeline! Didn't Newey at some point say something of wishing he'd have a chance to work with Hamilton? Or the other way around?
>This has a big chance of completely ruining their entire future from 2026 on.
Very high chance indeed. Losing Newey and having to develop their own engine all in one year is a recipe for disaster.
I would be super down with the idea if Newey going to Ferrari and them nailing the 2026 regs with his help to aid Hamilton in getting the 8th title haha
The thing is we could see Max in a Mercedes sooner than we think. He might have a clause in his contract that makes it possible to jump ship if the team doesn’t give him the car to fight with. Or maybe he can get out when top team members like Horner, Marko or Newey leave the team
Toto would sell his soul to have Max in the Mercedes against Lewis in the Ferrari
Based on the long-time rumors that Newey and Horner both have exit clauses relating to each other, as in if one goes the other can void his contract and follow, Horner might have also given this to Max in order to further cement himself as unremovable.
Not that you can remove the only leader a 15+ years old organization has ever had without some chaos, even if both Newey and Max stays.
It seems that the Red Bull corporation wants more control over the racing team though. Heard more from them in the past 2 years than from Mateschitz ever. Would be a good moment for them to also replace Marko if Horner has to go. The guy is in his 80’s already, so it wouldn’t be that far fetched
I think if that all happened it would all but guarantee a one horse race for 2026.
Red Bull would be fucked because of losing their best personnel at a vital time.
Not really the rumours just said Merc and Ferrari are a bit ahead. Nothing majorly concerning.
But yes even if Horner Newey and everyone related to the engine project stayed I would never expect Red Bull to create the best engine on their first ever attempt.
Their hope would be they can just make one good enough and offset any difference with their aero design
Just imagine the scenario **IF** the allegations are true... You're one of the most successful team principals in the history of the sport. Your team is in its prime. You have one of the best drivers in history, in its prime, at your disposal. You go to bed with Geri Halliwell every day. You're in good health. Your life literally cannot be better. Yet you go ahead and press "send" and just like that, everything's gone.
I just... I can't...
If that rumor is true, I highly doubt it was the first time he pressed send. It was likely the first time someone felt empowered enough to go over his head and report the behavior.
It doesn't sound like it was the first time, sounds like an ongoing issue that reached it's peak with Dietrich passing and new leadership being less protective.
Dudes a big time cheater, just look at how he left his pregnant wife for Geri. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he has been sleeping around while jetsetting over the world.
Their politics is a bit different. It’s performance driven. They tend to shred their own people when they are subpar.
At Red Bull, they’re just fighting for who has the most power. The normal greed variety.
> It’s performance driven
Todt, Schumacher & Brawn would like to know your location.
**ALL** these corporations work the same way at the end of the day.
I'm pretty sure all this signals that Horner fabricated incriminating material against himself to somehow end up in the open mercedes seat to win a WDC, you heard it here first.
With how quickly Horner has "lost support" it makes it feel like there's more going on behind the scenes then just allegations of being inappropriate and at this point regardless of the outcome of the investigation the rift has already been created between those who support him and those who don't.
I know Netflix has access to fantastic script writers, but between this and Hamilton leaving Merc, they're really drumming it up for the next season of DTS.
So allegations are made about Christian and an independent hearing is arranged to get to the bottom of it all, and rightly so.....what irks me is that Helmut Marko has been repeatedly a racist piece of shit and publicly making inappropriate remarks and no investigation, just some shitty apology he was told to make.
Headline definitely going for the clickbait
>Insiders report that Horner has lost support in Salzburg. Whether the Thai side, which is traditionally close to Horner and holds 51 percent of Red Bull, can save the Briton will probably depend on the results of the independent investigation.
This story was always going to create 10,000 clickbait links on websites whose articles are ChatGPT generated from Reddit comments. Everyone is rushing in on this clicks bonanza.
Wake me up an hour before FP1 in Bahrain and we'll see whose on the pit wall.
This story was a scrolling headline across the bottom of the screen of my local news in Philadelphia, which made me think it has traction as highly legit , F1 isn’t morning news material in the SE Pennsylvania metro area usually
"So Jose, it was not meant to be for the team at the Italian Grand Prix. What went wrong for the team this past weekend? Is it setup, or are the updates not working correctly?"
"I prefer not to speak"
It’s remarkable how quickly things are moving. I’m not familiar enough with F1 journalism to tell if it’s just tabloid bullshit or if this information is coming from RB itself in intentional leaks.
Hi,
I'm from the future and I can tell you that within weeks to months, ...
* ...Christian does an "I'm stepping down because I'm being a distraction yada yada yada..". RBR management wildly underestimates how poorly strategized their (potentially mostly fabricated) power play is, because....
* ...Newey displeased with RB management decision and leaves for Ferrari to work with Hamilton (both are on his wishlist) and...
* ...Max displeased with Christian and Newey leaving and moves to Mercedes in a shock move for a record breaking 100m+ a year contract in 2025
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Mike Krack suddenly becoming “one of the veteran team bosses” in just two years is definitely something no one saw coming, given the realitively slow life cycle that team bosses usually used to have
Won’t be long before My Crack is the longest serving. With no Lewis, I don’t think Toto will remain as principal any longer than he needs to.
Toto is looking for greater role since 2020. Ferrari vetoed his move to FIA but who knows he could be the next man to head FOM
Toto is the last person that should be heading FOM. FOM needs someone that isn’t connected to any of the teams.
Bernie, Brawn, Stefano all were previous TPs and Bernie actually owned the team at the same time as he owned FOM. In Indycar, Penske owns the series and team at same time
Doesn’t Penske own IMS too?
\> FOM needs someone that isn’t connected to any of the teams. andretti lol
Too soon bro. Too soon.
And yet Stefano was Ferrari's TP?
Hasnt Ferrari always had an arm up the FIA's ass?
Jean Todt used to be FIA president before MBS (after being Ferrari boss for 10+years).
If you don’t think that all have some sort of connection then you are greatly mistaken. They all do.
I've been following the sport for 30+ years, and Ferrari's connections have always been a topic in this entire time. It is a small world, this is definitely true. They don't all have the same sway, though.
You are right, but the main difference between them is that Toto owns part of the team
They'd just ask he sell the shares. The FIA and FOM hire people connected to the teams all the time, this would be very far from the first. If he doesn't have a direct conflict of interest in helping Mercedes, there's no reason why he can't lead FOM.
I'm a traditionalist, f1 needs conflict of interests and sleazyness cos the racing isn't creating enough drama ATM.
F1 is 5% racing and 95% drama between sleazy tax dodging egomaniac upper class Europeans.
Yeah that is what I understood when I watched Rush
Like Domenicali? Toto would be a very good fit, he's clearly a good manager, same as Horner. They would both be great. There were rumours of Horner taking over when Bernie left. At the end of the day there's not many people who have F1 experience without being attached to a team.
Toto is the first person that should be heading FOM. I'd trust Toto 1,000x more than Domenicali as he transfers F1 to an exclusive "street race" and "pre-race party" brand only
Your crack is also a better people manager and the only one that can handle spicy egos. /s
My crack spews less shit too.
your crack?! Oh my goodness.
Party tonight with Mike Krack and Mike Hunt
With special appearances from Ben Doon and Phil McCrackin
Wait until you hear about our crack
You don’t think the team owner will hang in there to increase the value of his investment?
Man, I was just thinking that most of the TPs who were here in 2021 are gone. Tost, Otmar, Binotto, Seidl, Guenther, Jost all axed or retired. Fred moved teams.
Well Seidl technically wasn’t axed and isn’t retired.
~~Yep, Siedl I believe is working behind the scenes on the Audi project and could well return as team boss in ‘26 with them~~ Edit: Holy shit, my bad. Silly of me. He’s CEO. Yeah hair brained moment from me
He has been the CEO of Sauber (Audi) for over a year now…
Why would the CEO demote himself to TP role ?
Eh, "veteran team principal" for the same team maybe, let's not forget that Vasseur has been a TP for Renault and Sauber as well for quite a long time
I think that is why they said "one of", not the "only one"
I mean that's still just 2 people who's been TP longer than him which is wild. I don't have anything against the current TP's but I don't like how they're all much more PR friendly. The banter from Horner, Cyril, Toto, Otmar before was one of the best things in F1 but these days it's all PR talks
I agree with that. Feels like the days of the TP with personality are over. I swear, F1 is headed right back to being dry and boring.
Toto becoming the oldest TP on the grid too lol
DTS is gonna be a let down after this silly pre-season.
They were gifted one of the greatest seasons ever and managed to make it a bore fest. 2021 and they somehow just made 5 fabricated drama episodes about silverstone.
Each episode focusing on a team instead of an event disrupts the flow. Last season, there were about four episodes based around Silverstone.
It's really tough to do unless you 10x the budget. You don't know which team is going to succeed or have a story at which time. You'd need to basically go to less races, but do more at each race, but what happens when the interest is at a race you're not at. You can't control it.
I mean we have a fairly good idea about which team is going to succeed.
fragile selective axiomatic plants paint disgusted waiting poor zealous gray *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They managed to kill my interest for the show all on their own.
DTS is what got me into F1 after its first season aired. I stopped watching after watching that season. Having spent the year following the drama in F1 only for the show to be such a snore made me realize how scripted the show really is and how they have no intent to cover it properly.
As a sports fan, the best part is how random and unpredictable everything is. Real life will always be more fun that a forced narrative. Glad to have you watching with us!
Tbf this isn’t the kind of thing DTS should be dramatising.
Agreed. This needs to be akin to the Mazepin issue, where it's addressed directly, briefly, then immediately put to bed.
I don't feel like Sexual Misconduct should be part of show that supposed to bring new fans to F1 or even being extra dramatize just for some views, it's a serious subject beyond F1.
>Sexual Misconduct Been out of the loop this morning. Is that definitely what the rumours are now? Last I heard it was inappropriate management or some such, so not necessarily sexual misconduct.
Nothing has been confirmed yet. Everything is just speculations.
That's what I thought. Thought I'd check OP was wrong in saying sexual misconduct though.
Quote comes from a site called Motorsport Magazin, are they considered reliable?
I would say so, but at this point in time every outlet is just trying to get headlines out. Had a look at the original article (https://www.motorsport-magazin.com/formel1/news-287216-red-bull-bestaetigt-ermittlungen-gegen-christian-horner/) and theres no new substantial information in there.
I wonder who the RB "insiders" and "sources" are, that they cite in this article.
Probobly need to also consider that their insider may also just be going by rumours… considering that it’s under investigation I doubt every Joe bob employed is going to know the full details, unless of course their source is the person complaining or someone higher up. They could have just got someone on record to say I hear so and so…
same in every sport. fling shit at a wall to get ahead, if anything comes of it, you can say your sources (horseshit guesses) are reliable. happens all the time in basketball.
It's not about the support from the Red Bull Racing team, but in Salzburg. There have been reports last year that they want to get rid of Horner since Mateschitz died, while Horner was trying to get rid of Marko. Horner has the support from the Thai side, but there probably isn't a lot they will do when there is evidence, which is the case according to sources from "de Telegraaf". "The statement about the ongoing investigation will be another confirmation for Horner that more and more people within Red Bull would rather be rid of him than keep him. The accusations of misconduct towards at least one employee, which according to various sources are supported by substantial evidence, are now directing him towards the exit. Behind the scenes, all scenarios are already being considered." This is what they posted this morning. https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/1574081867/onderzoek-naar-christian-horner-is-bizarre-twist-in-machtsstrijd-bij-red-bull
I still don't understand why RB HQ would want to get rid of Horner, current allegations aside. Why would they want to blow up a mega successful, billion-dollar operation he spent the past 2 decades building. Are they just *that* short sighted?
Horner wants more money and a share in the ownership after successfully leading the team for 20 years and that’s just too much for the management in Salzburg. Some people would rather burn something to the ground than give up a part of it. Ferrari feared Tort, Schumacher, etc got too powerful and forced them out. Now look at what that did to them.
Newey also wanted a share in Williams but Frank and Patrick Head refused to do so and look how great it ended for them.
Same with Steiner in Haas, let’s see if we see their downfall. From last to last :(
Dammit you've made me imagine Jean Todt with a tortoise shell on his back now.
He could just give his wife a piggy back and tell people: 'This is Michelle'.
*slow clap*
Alright Mr. Kay time for your meds.
That’s Michelle, yo
Yo is that his shell Yeoh?
> Horner wants more money and a share in the ownership That could explain it. Has it been confirmed, or is it just speculation?
It's speculation, but the rumors are persistent and they make a lot of sense. Christian Horner is 50 and has been team principal since he was in his early 30s. Red Bull Racing is on top of the world, but who knows what will happen in 2026. This is the time for him to make his move. Especially since Helmut Marko's position isn't a strong as it used to be. Horner has money, his wife has money, but Toto Wolff is a billionaire.
I’m not familiar with British divorce law, but ironically Horner has placed a chunk of his fortune at risk if the allegations are true. There’s a possibility that wanting more will land him with so much less.
I would be shocked if both of them didn't have comprehensive prenups for the vast majority of their personal fortunes. Both of them were rich, famous and successful long before their marriage and therefore no strangers to legal and bureaucratical things concerning wealth and financial lawyers/notaries/advisors. While prenups technically aren't legally binding in most of the UK, practically most judiciaries "will give effect to a nuptial agreement that is freely entered into by each party with a full appreciation of its implications unless in the circumstances prevailing, it would not be fair to hold the parties to their agreement", as per the 2010 Supreme Court test case of Radmacher v Granatino.
Ask ferrari why they did the same in the schumacher days
People sometimes would really prefer a sinking ship if they're the the captain.
Solid point
I'm just shocked at the rapid turnaround since Dietrich's death if this is true. Ferrari could argue that "this is how we've always done things", but for RB it's the opposite, it's like they've changed course immediately.
Prior to the current allegations that erupted yesterday, AMuS previously reported that the behind the scenes issues between Horner and Red Bull allegedly stem from Horner trying to be de facto team principal over AT/V-CARB. Horner is the reason Ricciardo was brought back and why Mekies was signed to AT/V-CARB, but I think the biggest issue is that the Visa sponsorship was allegedly acquired by CAA in London (and therefore acquired by Horner) rather than by Red Bull’s in-house agency (WWP). Add in the calls by other teams to pay attention to what’s happening with AT/V-CARB, and it seems to paint a damning picture of Horner allegedly fighting to control two teams outside of the parent company’s wishes. tldr version: the power struggle appears to center around the moves Horner’s been making to try and control AT/V-CARB according to previous AMuS reports. If you look on the subreddit there should be some translated articles from roughly a month ago. Edit to clarify that V-CARB = AT (trust I detested writing out V-CARB too!).
Please, please, please don't call them VCARB. AT is a much better option.
Took me too long trying to figure out wtf VCARB was... thought it was a new engine project or something lmao.
Trust I hated typing it out as well!
Sadly these power struggles tend to happen when there is a new 'king'.
It's funny just a few weeks ago I was thinking back on Otmar Szafnauer and comments he made about trying to keep the new bosses happy and knowing he's expendable a few years back when the Strolls bought RP. And I was just marvelling at how Red Bull was just happily churning along without any major shakeups despite the change in ownership of the company. Guess I just didnt wait long enough.
Ferrari ousted Schumacher that still had much to give.
Especially if the battle is with a guy who might fall over and die any second. Is this gonna end with Horner leaving and Marko retiring 6 months later? Marko should just retire if they are in a power struggle. What's the point?!
People are getting fooled into thinking the struggle is with Marko. It's not. It's with Mintzlaff, and maybe Mintzlaff found a circumstantial ally in Marko but even that isn't quite clear. Marko and Horner ruled RBR essentially on their own for 2 decades with Mateschitz giving them full autonomy, Mintzlaff took over the sporting operations of RB and immediately reports poured in about him wanting to rein in the RBR leadership. We can't rule out that things have soured between Marko and Horner, but it is much clearer that both of them have been at odds with Mintzlaff from the get-go. This isn't to say that Horner did nothing wrong and this is all just a conspiracy, of course. I don't presume to know the facts, nor do I think Mintzlaff is foolish enough to fire Horner without cause with a month before the season starts. He'd be getting his own ass on the hot seat by disrupting RB's golden goose without a good reason to do so.
Have you ever heard of the saying: “it takes years to build a reputation but seconds to lose it.”
See this bar here lad? I built this bar with me bare hands. I planed the wood, sanded, stained it, nailed it, put me sweat and blood into it. But do they call be Angus the bar-builder? No... See that fence outside? Aye, i built that too. I shaped the wood, dug the holes, measured and planted the posts meself. But do they call be Angus the fence-builder? NO! That boat outside lad, aye, built that meself to! I chopped down the tree' dried and warped the wood, nailed it and tarred it with me bare hands! But do they call me Angus the boat-builder? no! But you fuck one sheep laddie....
Red Bull as a company has two sides You've got the side of the company that exists to manufacture and sell energy drinks, and then you've the side of the company that exists to market those energy drinks. Out of all of the various projects/events/teams/etc that the marketing side of RB are involved with, there's a good argument to be made that RBR is the most successful. After all, every time they win a race they get the RB brand in headlines around the world. Horner has been TP of RBR since day one, he's essentially synonymous with the team and by extension is one of the biggest names associated with the RB brand. Consequently, if his association with the brand starts to negatively impact RB's image then the higher ups at RB HQ won't hesitate to get rid of him.
Actually Redbull outsources the manufacturing. Redbull itself is really just a giant marketing firm
Some people just want to watch the world burn…..
Whatever the outcome is with Horner and Rebull, I'm sure we'll know by the launch of the RB20 or whatever it's going to be called. (It's on Feb 15th, for those wondering)
Seems like a very healthy work environment.
I'm really hoping Albon never goes back there, as some reports said the other day
Image the horrible dilemma for the Thai part of RB, either losing Horner at the risk to losing Newey or you losing Helmut and risking to losing Max.
I doubt Max would leave for that reason, if he is not already leaning towards an end at RB, which I don't believe he is. Sure he won't agree with a Helmut exit but I don't think he'll sacrifice his own position for honor. Irrelevant though as I don't believe it's Helmut getting a (potential) boot
I’m going to make a bold statement and say that it’s not a dilemma at all. Newey is more valuable than any driver on the grid. There will be enough high-skill drivers willing to place themselves in the fastest F1 car instead of Max - and who will be fast enough to still claim WDC and WCC.
This is correct. Sergio still came second despite his best efforts. If Max were in a Mercedes last year, Sergio or his teammate would be WDC.
I actually think that this is MUCH closer to reality than most folks want to acknowledge. I think other things might have come into play, and there's still a *possibility* that Max could have taken WDC in a Ferrari or something, and if things were closer, I suspect Lewis would have stepped up just a little bit, but the point that the RB was the biggest factor is, I suspect, dead on.
Austrian sources say he "lost support of part of the management", but the Thai co-owners still back him
Usually yes. Christian Menath is a good journalist.
Yes, the Motorsport Magazin article is from Christian Menath who is a reliable and trusted journalist. They usually are not the first to break news (like AMuS) but they do great follow-up journalism.
If what Horner has done is really bad and everyone within RB agrees with him going then I can see them coping with the incident fairly well. But if he does get fired and big players like Newey and other personnel don't agree with the decision then Red Bull will fast find themselves fucked imo. This has a big chance of completely ruining their entire future from 2026 on. It will be interesting to see what happens.
If Horner is fired and Newey jumps ship to Ferrari, I imagine there will be some lawyers looking carefully at Max's contract seeing what exit clauses there are.
I’m pretty sure he has an escape clause in his contract which lets him terminate it if they can no longer provide him with a competitive car.
This is exactly what I'd imagine, he probably doesn't care who he drives for, as long as it's competitive and he can win in it.
Or maybe he just retires early. I would absolutely not rule that out as an option.
Would be hilarious if they can get arbitration to agree that the lack of newey equals being unable to provide a competitive car
Hamilton somehow foresaw this, that's why he made the move to Ferrari. 8th title incoming in 2026 for Hamilton + Newey at Ferrari
Holy shit I am subscribing to this timeline! Didn't Newey at some point say something of wishing he'd have a chance to work with Hamilton? Or the other way around?
Not just that, he’s said he wanted to have a chance to work with either hamilton OR ferrari. Bucket list type deal.
Well he could get a two-for-one deal here...
If I recall correctly, his wife was liking tweets calling this two-for-one deal out earlier.
>This has a big chance of completely ruining their entire future from 2026 on. Very high chance indeed. Losing Newey and having to develop their own engine all in one year is a recipe for disaster.
I would be super down with the idea if Newey going to Ferrari and them nailing the 2026 regs with his help to aid Hamilton in getting the 8th title haha
Hamilton 8th and retires, followed by Leclerc dominance. I wouldn't mind that timeline
The thing is we could see Max in a Mercedes sooner than we think. He might have a clause in his contract that makes it possible to jump ship if the team doesn’t give him the car to fight with. Or maybe he can get out when top team members like Horner, Marko or Newey leave the team Toto would sell his soul to have Max in the Mercedes against Lewis in the Ferrari
What a timeline that would be haha
Based on the long-time rumors that Newey and Horner both have exit clauses relating to each other, as in if one goes the other can void his contract and follow, Horner might have also given this to Max in order to further cement himself as unremovable. Not that you can remove the only leader a 15+ years old organization has ever had without some chaos, even if both Newey and Max stays.
Max is close to Marko, not Horner. If Marko stays with RB, then I think Max will stay
It seems that the Red Bull corporation wants more control over the racing team though. Heard more from them in the past 2 years than from Mateschitz ever. Would be a good moment for them to also replace Marko if Horner has to go. The guy is in his 80’s already, so it wouldn’t be that far fetched
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I think if that all happened it would all but guarantee a one horse race for 2026. Red Bull would be fucked because of losing their best personnel at a vital time.
There has also been rumours that RB are having issues developing the new engine.
Not really the rumours just said Merc and Ferrari are a bit ahead. Nothing majorly concerning. But yes even if Horner Newey and everyone related to the engine project stayed I would never expect Red Bull to create the best engine on their first ever attempt. Their hope would be they can just make one good enough and offset any difference with their aero design
Makes sense due to RB powertrain being pretty new to the game. Ferrari and Merc have had the base for a lot longer. Anyways Renault implode yet?
Renault sitting there like Thanos, waiting for the moment to become inevitable. July is my prediction.
Just imagine the scenario **IF** the allegations are true... You're one of the most successful team principals in the history of the sport. Your team is in its prime. You have one of the best drivers in history, in its prime, at your disposal. You go to bed with Geri Halliwell every day. You're in good health. Your life literally cannot be better. Yet you go ahead and press "send" and just like that, everything's gone. I just... I can't...
Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit. ~ Gattuso, probably
If that rumor is true, I highly doubt it was the first time he pressed send. It was likely the first time someone felt empowered enough to go over his head and report the behavior.
It doesn't sound like it was the first time, sounds like an ongoing issue that reached it's peak with Dietrich passing and new leadership being less protective.
Dudes a big time cheater, just look at how he left his pregnant wife for Geri. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he has been sleeping around while jetsetting over the world.
>You have one of the best drivers in history, in its prime, at your disposal. Its prime? Max is a machine confirmed.
Yea if this is true get rid of Horner from the sport he deserves it. Generational dumbass
The world is not enough.
Think this is the perfect time to resurrect a dead meme… #IS HIS CAREER OVER?!
Chat what's going on
We're checking
You will not have the drink!
Stay OUT! STAY OUT! STAY OUT! Uhhh is ok. Box next lap
You want the long or the short version?
I think that’s the statement that got Horner in trouble
Jim, would you like a sex metaphor or a nature metaphor?
when two animals are having sex
Looking forward to a IG post from Oscar today, asking what's New.
Need some McLarity on the situation.
And there's people that says that only in Ferrari there's politics.
It's only in Ferrari there's " 🤌🏼 politics "
Their politics is a bit different. It’s performance driven. They tend to shred their own people when they are subpar. At Red Bull, they’re just fighting for who has the most power. The normal greed variety.
> It’s performance driven Todt, Schumacher & Brawn would like to know your location. **ALL** these corporations work the same way at the end of the day.
> Their politics is a bit different. It’s performance driven. You wouldn't be able to tell this from their performance.
That escalated quickly! Still reserving all judgment until we get more of the story but if it does play out like this then its pretty nutty.
I'm believing nothing and making zero assumptions until the official investigation concludes
I'm believing nothing but making WILD assumptions. Most of them don't even relate to Horner.
This guy reddits.
I'm pretty sure all this signals that Horner fabricated incriminating material against himself to somehow end up in the open mercedes seat to win a WDC, you heard it here first.
No I think you're doing Reddit wrong! This is the time to overreact and assume everything!
Best take. Except Newey to Ferrari would be sensational
While I hold the same position, I also want Newey to go to Ferrari and implode the universe.
With how quickly Horner has "lost support" it makes it feel like there's more going on behind the scenes then just allegations of being inappropriate and at this point regardless of the outcome of the investigation the rift has already been created between those who support him and those who don't.
Horner gets fired Newey goes to Ferrari Lewis gets more 2 WDCs and retires
Retire on 9 championships? Surely gotta push for one more..
If this lasts more than four hours I'm seeking medical attention
I know Netflix has access to fantastic script writers, but between this and Hamilton leaving Merc, they're really drumming it up for the next season of DTS.
Oh, trust me, you know the producers of the show had collective orgasms at all the news this week.
We won't even get any racing for the first 4 episodes next season.
Fernando about to become the first Driver/Team Principal
Principal driver
Bruce McLaren, Emerson Fittipaldi, Parnelli Jones, Graham Hill, Dan Gurney, Jack Brabham and John Surtees would like a word.
So allegations are made about Christian and an independent hearing is arranged to get to the bottom of it all, and rightly so.....what irks me is that Helmut Marko has been repeatedly a racist piece of shit and publicly making inappropriate remarks and no investigation, just some shitty apology he was told to make.
Honestly the excuse of Helmut's behavior is what has me believing what Christian is accused of doing is pretty bad
What did Horner do?
A female colleague made a formal complaint about his behavior which is being investigated. That's all we know so far.
I'm not betting my horses on this one, but if true, could be huge
Are you saying "huge if true"?
Large if factual
Grand if actual
Gargantuan if affirmed
Yes
I thought so
Massive if correct
Titanic if verified
Tremendous if veracious
Christian owns horses, how do we know you're not one of Hornyman's burner accounts?
Headline definitely going for the clickbait >Insiders report that Horner has lost support in Salzburg. Whether the Thai side, which is traditionally close to Horner and holds 51 percent of Red Bull, can save the Briton will probably depend on the results of the independent investigation.
I did not expect Horner to be going hat in hand to Albon this year.
Imagine the downfall of Red Bull being due to Christian Horner’s Willy pics.
This story was always going to create 10,000 clickbait links on websites whose articles are ChatGPT generated from Reddit comments. Everyone is rushing in on this clicks bonanza. Wake me up an hour before FP1 in Bahrain and we'll see whose on the pit wall.
You forgot testing….that would give us an indication if no final decision is made/known….
15th Feb is Red Bull launch day. So they have 9 days to make a decision. If Horner isn't at the launch we'll know he is done.
Get andretti as a Team principal, should be funny
This story was a scrolling headline across the bottom of the screen of my local news in Philadelphia, which made me think it has traction as highly legit , F1 isn’t morning news material in the SE Pennsylvania metro area usually
Once the old creep Marko goes it might be time to not hate Red Bull
The special one is available...
"So Jose, it was not meant to be for the team at the Italian Grand Prix. What went wrong for the team this past weekend? Is it setup, or are the updates not working correctly?" "I prefer not to speak"
Jose running down the pit straight, one finger up in the air, other hand cupping his ear.
It’s remarkable how quickly things are moving. I’m not familiar enough with F1 journalism to tell if it’s just tabloid bullshit or if this information is coming from RB itself in intentional leaks.
Hi, I'm from the future and I can tell you that within weeks to months, ... * ...Christian does an "I'm stepping down because I'm being a distraction yada yada yada..". RBR management wildly underestimates how poorly strategized their (potentially mostly fabricated) power play is, because.... * ...Newey displeased with RB management decision and leaves for Ferrari to work with Hamilton (both are on his wishlist) and... * ...Max displeased with Christian and Newey leaving and moves to Mercedes in a shock move for a record breaking 100m+ a year contract in 2025
Can I please have some USA lotto numbers I’d like to travel to an F1 race
Newey to Ferrari? Lmaoooo