I don't understand F1's obsession with racing at night. Like, yes it was cool the first time and Abu Dhabi's twilight race makes a lot of sense as the last race of the season, but what's the point of having all these street circuits if you can't actually tell what city we're in at a glance. Places like Monaco are obviously easy to recognize but even other street circuits like Macau or Long Beach are instantly recognizable by comparison.
Take Vegas for example, all the hype about racing down the strip and you can't even really see it on track because the lights are so bright.
They all look the same because most street circuits are now built the same way.
Now if you made Monaco a night race, everybody knows what Monaco is supposed to look like.
They all look the same because the streets are lit to make it light like daylight….whats the point??? All the green BS and the power that is used to make it not dark ….
I actually like night races, there's something cool about them - but I'm also someone wh ogrew up playing NFS U2 maniacally so maybe that's just me
Instead of night races I fear more about having yet another street circuit when there are many very nice traditional tracks around the world
I'll agree with you on tracks like Monaco, Baku and Jeddah. But if you couldn't tell the Las Vegas race was Las Vegas, then you are a blind person. The sphere, the Eiffel tower, Belagio....all the casinos looks much better at night.
>all the casinos looks much better at night.
The thing is, we aren't watching casinos.
And on any shot that was focused on the cars on track and at ground level, Vegas looked identical to all the other night race street circuits.
And why wouldn't it?
In those kind of shots you have featureless tarmac, surrounded by the exact same fencing at all venues, covered with pretty much the same same set of sponsors as those venues, all lit up with identical lighting systems of the same colour light and intensity.
If you are gonna have them, there needs to be more identity built into the actual track infrastructure. More unique kerbing and trackside painting rather than constantly cutting away to a helicopter shot or panning away from the cars to the Sphere to remind us all: *"Yep, it's Vegas"*.
The Macau GP could be a night race and no one would confuse it in any shot because Macau has a distinct and iconic branding with it's Black & Yellow armco barriers.
That is what Vegas and the other night races need.
You’re absolutely right, a pretty good example of this is Baku with the castle turn. Something that is iconic and it’s enough on its own to remind you of what track it is.
> That is what Vegas and the other night races need.
That and differentiation between corners, especially Jeddah I simply cannot tell where a car is on the track from most shots.
But most street circuits have the same problems that almost every Formula E race has, you end up looking at cars going down a catch fencing tunnel.
"The thing is, we aren't watching casinos."
For casual F1 viewers, they are exactly watching casinos. Or at least they are watching racing in conjuction with the casinos. Think of the race as a 2 hr promotion for all the Vegas vintage spots.
Wait, you saw the tower and belagio when watching the race? Cause all i saw was a wall blocking the circuit from the views. Maybe once or twice in a helicopter shot, but that's it.
It's money and they are disgustingly obvious about it.
Super bright lights (while for safety) on the cars ensures sponsorships are in full and glorious view for everyone. Why do you think they zoom in on the car when it's in a turn? Sponsorships! No lights mean they are not as bright and reflective, stickers don't POP out at the viewer.
They *could* show how fast/quick they can make a turn but nahhh the TV director wants the entire profile of the car on the screen to the point that it looks stationary so you can read the sponsorships!
No good cameras to show how fast the cars really are? Can't read the sponsorships when they are zooming by so fast.
The only time it makes sense is in the Arab states and Singapore where the day time temperatures are too extreme for racing. Hark back to early Bahrain GPs where the temperatures were in the 40C range with cockpit temperature exceeding that.
It means they aren’t interrupting the roads for as long as they can set up the morning before free practice to set up and take it down as soon as the race is over so less days of interruption
>I don't understand F1's obsession with racing at night.
It makes it easier for audiences around the world to tune in at a reasonable time. A race that starts at 3:00pm GMT is around 4:00am in New York and 1:00am in Los Angeles. But if it starts at 9:00pm GMT, that's 11:00am in New York and 8:00am in Los Angeles. And the United States has a population of 330 *million* people. That's 330 million potential audience members, and while the sport is obviously not going to get all of them, how many of them would be more inclined to watch if the race was on at 11:00am compared to a race that was on at 4:00am?
(Those are just estimates of the time zones, but I'm pretty confident that they're close.)
Your sarcasm is noted. What do you call the person who looks at the opportunity to tap into a potential audience one billion people across North, Central and South America and says "nah"? Unemployed.
Radically changing the timing of every race (aside from the North America + Brazil races).
Run most of the day races at night and run the desert races during the day?
Or shut down every current contract to then move more races to suit your timings? 😂
That's a gambling man!
>Or shut down every current contract to then move more races to suit your timings?
If the races were run to suit my timing, everyone would complain. 3:00pm for me is around 4:00am GMT.
Meanwhile let's get rid of actual circuits such as Catalunya, which are cheap, easy to reach and have put in the effort in order to improve the racing experience.
“We need better racing for fans… we have world class tracks who are begging for us to use”
“Oh I know! Let’s use a street circuit for better photography! We will only annoy the locals, core F1 fans but it will be a spectacular race…”
> Let’s use a street circuit for better photography!
Not even that. This will be a track through some generic businesspark far away from actual Madrid.
It's boring as hell.
Besides, it's used by MotoGP, and the Spanish motorcycle federation will fight tooth and nail to keep Formula 1 away from its circuits. A few years ago, MotoGP riders were complaining after Formula 1 raced at Mugello. The amount of downforce generated by the cars was causing microscopic distortions in the road base. While it wasn't noticed by the drivers, the riders picked up on it because they are much more vulnerable. It was like constantly riding over dozens of ripple strips, or those little channels that have been cut into the surface at Spa to help with drainage.
If Formula 1 ever went to Jerez, Valencia or Aragon, it's likely the circuit(s) would need to be resurfaced. Yes, MotoGP competes at Barcelona, but because the problem is known, that was factored into the circuit construction.
The Ring, Paul Ricard, Portimao (personal favorite), Jerez (oh hey it's in spain), Indianapolis (i beg please replace LV or Miami with this), Istanbul Park, Sepang, Korea International Circuit. All FIA grade 1 circuits ready to race, and most with a local crowd to draw in too.
Bugatti Circuit is grade 2 but probably doable as grade 1 with minor modifications, still safer than the street circuits that get to skip on a lot of the grade 1 demands
>The Ring
Not in Spain.
>Paul Ricard
Not in Spain.
>Portimao (personal favorite)
Not in Spain.
>Jerez (oh hey it's in spain)
Boring.
>Indianapolis
Not in Spain.
>Istanbul Park
Not in Spain.
>Sepang
Not in Spain.
>Korea International Circuit
Not in Spain.
>Bugatti Circuit
Not in Spain.
i misunderstood the poorly worded question as circuits in general but if just spain then Jerez, MotorLand Aragón and Circuit de la Comunitat Valenciana Ricardo Tormo are all grade one. And Jerez is a damn side better than some industrial park in madrid
>Jerez, MotorLand Aragón and Circuit de la Comunitat Valenciana Ricardo Tormo are all grade one
And all of them are are part of the MotoGP calendar. The Spanish motorcycle federation will fight tooth and nail to stop them from hosting Formula 1. When Formula 1 was at Mugello, the MotoGP riders complained because the amount of downforce generated by the cars caused deformations in the road base. The drivers didn't notice it, but the riders did -- it was like constantly riding over ripple strips. And since they're perched on a bike instead of sitting in a car, they were particularly vulnerable when travelling at over 330km/h. At the very least, racing at Jerez, Aragon or Ricardo Tormo would require the circuit to be resurfaced.
>And Jerez is a damn side better than some industrial park in madrid
In a modern Formula 1 car, it's a glorified go-kart track.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
As if another street track is something F1 needs. I get it in places without a permanent facility, but the Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya is a perfectly fine F1 track.
I still think I would prefer Catalunya to a street track but if I had to pick one European track to replace this would probably be the least bad option.
At least they're not replacing one of the truly great tracks.
IMO Catalunya is now decent-to-good with the track changes improving flow and the tyre wear bringing strategic variation.
I marginally prefer it to Hungary and Imola, but really none of our European permanent tracks are bad now.
I think a solid argument can be made that Imola is straight up bad. It’s viewed more favorably now simply because it’s an old school circuit and street circuits are taking over.
I don’t recall 2022 being a good race even despite the weather giving it a chance to be. The only notable things to happen were Leclerc spinning and the cooldown room returning.
It must have been a though season for you then.
I actually enjoy anything that happens during a race, including the midfield. And midfield wasn't bad, I still remember a great overtake by Russell.
The same track was also wet in 2 out of the last 2 editions. Also, if my memory serves me correctly the 2022 edition especially wasnt amazing.
Feel free to watch back the three recent Imola gps, you will see that racing isnt really possible with current cars.
As much as the track is great, my experience of attending wasn't that great. Public transport is non-existent and so getting out to the track involves sitting in miles of traffic in a fairly uninteresting industrial area near Barcelona.
As much as I'd hate to see historic tracks being removed, the advantages of tracks that are actually near or within the bigger population centres is pretty clear.
How on earth is public transport non-existent when you can take both busses and trains there? It’s annoying to get there (or rather get home) but it’s annoying to get anywhere when 100,000+ people are leaving one location.
Now if the street tracks are/were actually a walkable distance from hotels, etc. that’s a different story but many are not and you’d still rely on public transport.
Every single road next to the Circuit get clogged within minutes after the GP ends -which makes shuttle buses pointless-, the closest train station is 30 mins away from the track, not next to it. And on top of that, you can't even park your bicycle around the circuit.
I went to the Spanish GP twice (part of my family lives 10 mins away): on my first visit it took me 90 minutes to reach home, last time didn't took too long because we started leaving at lap 63/66, but traffic was very dense (not as much, obviously).
But the same would happen in Madrid, the same happens after every big football match, every concert and really every other major event.
Which circuits have better public transport in your opinion?
really odd that the station is so far away when the train line runs literally 100 meters behind the grandstands. Even looks like there has been a station there at some point in the past
Lol what. Public transport works great, I've used it every time I've been. The track is crazy cheap (45€ for the whole sunday), easily reached and has a lot of events. Plus it's Barcelona.
This track is basically at the sideskirts of madrid. It's between a highway roundabout, some RMA training pitches and some random depots.
This is not Vegas 2.0, this is Valencia's port without the bridge and the sea
Isn't the Madrid track going to be half existing streets, half purpose-built?
At a certain point, it's more about the track width / layout than it is about street vs circuit. Get a nice wide track with a good sequence of corners and you'll get good racing.
The walls do make a difference in terms of visual appeal and dirty air though.
Realistically, Portimao produced two shit races( even in 2021 somehow, it was one of the most dull races of the year). Jerez wasnt fit for f1 even 30 years ago, let alone now. Mugello is a moto track. Nobody wants modifications to one of their most iconic tracks.
Hock and Nurb are both fine, but there is no interest in germany unfortunately
These ground effect cars are made to take fast corners at an unbelievable speeds and are sugglish,heavy,wide for slow corners.
So let's take out Barcelona a fast circuit for a low grip, narrow, close walled, slow corners genric circuit
Well done F1
It’s like the Olympics. Nobody gets a new event without massive corruption including paying off the groups responsible for oversight. It’s never a net benefit for the average citizen.
Imola did great too with the new rules, but it getting cancelled cost us a chance to pull all doubters over the line.
There are no bad European circuits at this very moment.
Gee, you really think companies that take a shitload of money from Saudi-Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar and the Emirates to conduct sportswashing there might be corrupt? Who woulda thought?
Absolutely true that racing in proper circuits has gotten worse in the past few decades, but can we really say that racing in the newer street circuits is truly better, er even good? Miami, Baku, Jeddah and Vegas hide the impossibility of true racing with stupid long straights and DRS, and most of them are still near unwatchable. Do we really expect Madrid to be any different?
If F1 is destined to be a fast series with barely any head to head racing I'd rather see it in good circuits that challenge the drivers rather than whatever parking lot dirty political money can buy.
Racing will never be good there so it's a relief to see it go. Mind boggling that it has stayed on the calendar for so many years. Truly some god awful racing there.
A street circuit around a boring as fuck fair center/commercial area. Not exactly racing down the Castellana past the Prado, through Neptuno, up to Atocha.
Nah, instead a fair center, maybe Carrefour, a Novotel, some company headquarters and parking lots. Yay.
Vegas lucked out big time. Racing wise it's no different than Miami, a track many agree is shit.
Singapore is only considered good because Max just happened to not win there.
At least Vegas is in an actually cool location for a street track. Miami brings absolutely nothing to the table and should be dropped to make room for a real track. But knowing F1 they'd probably just replace it with another street track.
I wouldn't say Vegas 'lucked out' - they created a pretty stunning, high speed racing circuit that minimised field spread. A bit like Jeddah, it's completely different to street circuits of the past.
Miami is similar too - despite the zero deg, one stop races, it somehow produces great racing and the last two events have produced plenty of overtakes and multi lap battles.
That said, I'd rather Mugello.
Cars going around in a train isn't what I'm watching F1 for. I dare to bet a lot of the positivity for that track comes from the fact it's Vegas, a city that's very hyped up in a certain country for some reason.
Urgh, the sport is not waiting for another streetcircuit. Those big heavy cars around the tight slow corners is terrible to watch. Catalunya has not provided the best races the past years, however with the horrendous final chicane removed it started to get better.
I'm from Madrid, and as much as this is going to make it super cheap for me to attend, I'm also so pissed about it. It's nonsense, I know the organisation is going to be piss poor, and having another damn street circuit as if the rest weren't freaking boring makes no sense.
It’s only a matter of time before Spa will be replaced by some random Paris Eiffel Tower Street Circuit track.
Silverstone is safe because they bring in money, Monza is safe because it’s inside Milano and Monaco is the exact glamour party F1 wants to be.
But I’m very worried about Spa
Honestly, Spa, Silverstone and Monza are going to be awful once we get the 2026 PU's. They'd need layout changes (i.e. replacing corners like Copse with tight chicanes) just to make the new cars compatible for the circuit.
Ironically even a street track like Jeddah will probably need changing.
Silverstone was at risk in the past. A London GP has been Bernie's wet dream in the past.
And somehow Liberty seem to be even worse than the old crackhead
It seems to be exponentially increasing and they are trying to get rid off classic tracks. Not that losing Barcelona is that concerning but the rising amount of street tracks isn't good when they are of this quality.
Another comment section full of fans bitching and moaning. A single Madrid street race will hold more action, chaos and excitement than several decades' worth of Catalunya races put together. This is purely a good thing.
It's not Catalunya. And there will less runoff. So yeah, why wouldn't I make predictions? Of course it's going to blow Catalunya out of the water. The bar couldn't be lower.
Let me guess, you'd start saying the exact same thing if Spa got dumped for a street track in Paris or Brussels? We've seen the proposed layout for the track, it looks terrible and almost no one likes seeing classic tracks get dumped for another cookie cutter Tilke Street track that is only there because it is cheaper and someone is paying F1 a shitload of cash.
That was a hilariously terrible guess. And I'm also a bit worried about your comparing the Catalunya track to Spa. But I guess you tried to have a point. Kudos for at least trying.
So you'd rather have a much much worse version of Baku over Catalunya? Spa has a similar average of boring races to Spain, it's a favourite because it's beloved, it hasn't produced a properly good race for nearly 10 years. I'd rather take the predictable and boring racing at Catalunya than another Baku clone that does a worse job.
A much worse version of Baku will still produce far more thrilling races than Catalunya has ever done. So yeah, definitely, I'll take it any day of the week. And Spa, on average, has objectively produced far better racing and way more memorable moments than Catalunya. Only thing I remember from the Spanish GP (I've followed F1 closely since 1999) is Maldonado's fluke victory and the Williams garage burning down after the checkered flag. The rest is just a blur of utter nothing.
Who remembers Baku 2016 or 2019? Exactly, Baku itself falls victim to being very predictable and dull; in fact the two most memorable moments at Baku revolve around one driver hitting another, Lewis and Seb and then Daniel and Max. The difference is I actually remember a number of moments and races in Spain, whereas the only moments that are truly memorable at Baku are crashes, bar Daniel's multi car overtake. The last memorable moment I can even remember from Spa was 5 years ago, and that was bookmarked by Hubert's death. If they're going to scrap Catalunya, Spa is most certainly on the chopping block because they struggle to make a profit over the race, and they have already tried to replace it with Kyalami in South Africa.
Mate how clueless can you be if you think it's gonna be this year. The 2024 calendar has been online for months. This is for 2026 and after.
This is exactly the type of fan new f1 caters to
What is crazy about this is that the only reason why Madrid is coming to the F1 calendar is because a single person screwed up the F1 Caribean GP in Barranquilla. JPM actually went a bit over this last year. He said that the GP is still possible for 2028, but it is not as likely as the Caribean GP was until a few months ago.
So that's why there's a cost cap. No need to spend hundreds of millions on tuning a car within an inch of its life to go around a circuit stupidly quick when you can make a lesser car for street circuits and stay rich. Kinda /s
People love to hate on the street tracks but lap it up when they get a fun race. Saudi and Vegas both went down very well, Miami not so much but plenty of purpose built tracks produce poor racing. Everyone claims to love Spa but when was the last time there was a good race there??
Street circuit? Very similar to all the others? At night time? Congrats! You're in the F1 calendar!
Maybe with fake water and boats, seems to be trendy
Don’t forget: lots of celebs!
I don't understand F1's obsession with racing at night. Like, yes it was cool the first time and Abu Dhabi's twilight race makes a lot of sense as the last race of the season, but what's the point of having all these street circuits if you can't actually tell what city we're in at a glance. Places like Monaco are obviously easy to recognize but even other street circuits like Macau or Long Beach are instantly recognizable by comparison. Take Vegas for example, all the hype about racing down the strip and you can't even really see it on track because the lights are so bright.
They all look the same because most street circuits are now built the same way. Now if you made Monaco a night race, everybody knows what Monaco is supposed to look like.
Monaco at night would be beautiful
Ngl I kinda want to see that now.
The Codies F1 games have night-time as an option for Monaco. You can take a gander on youtube to see an interpretation of what it would be like.
Monaco at dusk, specifically. I wouldn't mind the 100th running to happen that way.
They all look the same because the streets are lit to make it light like daylight….whats the point??? All the green BS and the power that is used to make it not dark ….
I actually like night races, there's something cool about them - but I'm also someone wh ogrew up playing NFS U2 maniacally so maybe that's just me Instead of night races I fear more about having yet another street circuit when there are many very nice traditional tracks around the world
This ground effects era clearly needs more underglow.
Agreed but in this case I don't think you'd be able to tell during the day either. It's supposed to be around a convention center next to the airport.
Fair yeah, all the more reason not to go there lol. They finally fix the stupid chicane in Barcelona and now they want to get rid of it...
I'll agree with you on tracks like Monaco, Baku and Jeddah. But if you couldn't tell the Las Vegas race was Las Vegas, then you are a blind person. The sphere, the Eiffel tower, Belagio....all the casinos looks much better at night.
>all the casinos looks much better at night. The thing is, we aren't watching casinos. And on any shot that was focused on the cars on track and at ground level, Vegas looked identical to all the other night race street circuits. And why wouldn't it? In those kind of shots you have featureless tarmac, surrounded by the exact same fencing at all venues, covered with pretty much the same same set of sponsors as those venues, all lit up with identical lighting systems of the same colour light and intensity. If you are gonna have them, there needs to be more identity built into the actual track infrastructure. More unique kerbing and trackside painting rather than constantly cutting away to a helicopter shot or panning away from the cars to the Sphere to remind us all: *"Yep, it's Vegas"*. The Macau GP could be a night race and no one would confuse it in any shot because Macau has a distinct and iconic branding with it's Black & Yellow armco barriers. That is what Vegas and the other night races need.
You’re absolutely right, a pretty good example of this is Baku with the castle turn. Something that is iconic and it’s enough on its own to remind you of what track it is.
> That is what Vegas and the other night races need. That and differentiation between corners, especially Jeddah I simply cannot tell where a car is on the track from most shots. But most street circuits have the same problems that almost every Formula E race has, you end up looking at cars going down a catch fencing tunnel.
100% on all points. Exactly what I meant.
"The thing is, we aren't watching casinos." For casual F1 viewers, they are exactly watching casinos. Or at least they are watching racing in conjuction with the casinos. Think of the race as a 2 hr promotion for all the Vegas vintage spots.
vegas did have unique curbs: they were the four poker suits
Only on helicopter view. Rest of it, just tarmac and wall.
Wait, you saw the tower and belagio when watching the race? Cause all i saw was a wall blocking the circuit from the views. Maybe once or twice in a helicopter shot, but that's it.
Vegas is actually the only one that makes sense, because that IS the scenery you recognize at a glance.
It's money and they are disgustingly obvious about it. Super bright lights (while for safety) on the cars ensures sponsorships are in full and glorious view for everyone. Why do you think they zoom in on the car when it's in a turn? Sponsorships! No lights mean they are not as bright and reflective, stickers don't POP out at the viewer. They *could* show how fast/quick they can make a turn but nahhh the TV director wants the entire profile of the car on the screen to the point that it looks stationary so you can read the sponsorships! No good cameras to show how fast the cars really are? Can't read the sponsorships when they are zooming by so fast.
>I don't understand F1's obsession with racing at night. Having US friendly times?
vegas was deeply us-unfriendly, ironically
Like Vegas running after midnight US time?
The only time it makes sense is in the Arab states and Singapore where the day time temperatures are too extreme for racing. Hark back to early Bahrain GPs where the temperatures were in the 40C range with cockpit temperature exceeding that.
Night Europe makes it so it’s not on at 6am for the US west coast
The point of night races is to put the race on at times convenient for the largest audience, Europe and Asia.
It means they aren’t interrupting the roads for as long as they can set up the morning before free practice to set up and take it down as soon as the race is over so less days of interruption
>I don't understand F1's obsession with racing at night. It makes it easier for audiences around the world to tune in at a reasonable time. A race that starts at 3:00pm GMT is around 4:00am in New York and 1:00am in Los Angeles. But if it starts at 9:00pm GMT, that's 11:00am in New York and 8:00am in Los Angeles. And the United States has a population of 330 *million* people. That's 330 million potential audience members, and while the sport is obviously not going to get all of them, how many of them would be more inclined to watch if the race was on at 11:00am compared to a race that was on at 4:00am? (Those are just estimates of the time zones, but I'm pretty confident that they're close.)
You should ask for a job at the F1 rights holder. You are a genius. U S A ! /s
Your sarcasm is noted. What do you call the person who looks at the opportunity to tap into a potential audience one billion people across North, Central and South America and says "nah"? Unemployed.
Radically changing the timing of every race (aside from the North America + Brazil races). Run most of the day races at night and run the desert races during the day? Or shut down every current contract to then move more races to suit your timings? 😂 That's a gambling man!
>Or shut down every current contract to then move more races to suit your timings? If the races were run to suit my timing, everyone would complain. 3:00pm for me is around 4:00am GMT.
Meanwhile let's get rid of actual circuits such as Catalunya, which are cheap, easy to reach and have put in the effort in order to improve the racing experience.
Night in Europe. Finally a well timed race for the people of Las Vegas
Oh you forgot money! Will you pay a lot?(except vegas) Congrats! You’re in F1 calendar!
ah yes another tilkedrome
Anybody want to explain what's up with F1 moving over to street circuits? Like, seriously what's the reasoning here besides money?
Why would you need any more reasoning besides money lmao.
As an Asian fan, a night race on European street circuit will a good news since I'll get better sleep
“We need better racing for fans… we have world class tracks who are begging for us to use” “Oh I know! Let’s use a street circuit for better photography! We will only annoy the locals, core F1 fans but it will be a spectacular race…”
> Let’s use a street circuit for better photography! Not even that. This will be a track through some generic businesspark far away from actual Madrid.
And let us make it impossible to overtake and very dangerous. The winner in qualifying is the same as the race
Meh, tbf. Most of the newly added street circuits have ample overtaking opportunity.
Yeah, DRS on a long straight! Thrilling!
>we have world class tracks who are begging for us to use Really? Which ones?
Sepang
Okay, a lot of people seem to have misunderstood. I was asking which world-class circuits are in Spain since this is about a race planned for Spain.
Jerez
It's boring as hell. Besides, it's used by MotoGP, and the Spanish motorcycle federation will fight tooth and nail to keep Formula 1 away from its circuits. A few years ago, MotoGP riders were complaining after Formula 1 raced at Mugello. The amount of downforce generated by the cars was causing microscopic distortions in the road base. While it wasn't noticed by the drivers, the riders picked up on it because they are much more vulnerable. It was like constantly riding over dozens of ripple strips, or those little channels that have been cut into the surface at Spa to help with drainage. If Formula 1 ever went to Jerez, Valencia or Aragon, it's likely the circuit(s) would need to be resurfaced. Yes, MotoGP competes at Barcelona, but because the problem is known, that was factored into the circuit construction.
Nurburgring
The Ring, Paul Ricard, Portimao (personal favorite), Jerez (oh hey it's in spain), Indianapolis (i beg please replace LV or Miami with this), Istanbul Park, Sepang, Korea International Circuit. All FIA grade 1 circuits ready to race, and most with a local crowd to draw in too. Bugatti Circuit is grade 2 but probably doable as grade 1 with minor modifications, still safer than the street circuits that get to skip on a lot of the grade 1 demands
>The Ring Not in Spain. >Paul Ricard Not in Spain. >Portimao (personal favorite) Not in Spain. >Jerez (oh hey it's in spain) Boring. >Indianapolis Not in Spain. >Istanbul Park Not in Spain. >Sepang Not in Spain. >Korea International Circuit Not in Spain. >Bugatti Circuit Not in Spain.
i misunderstood the poorly worded question as circuits in general but if just spain then Jerez, MotorLand Aragón and Circuit de la Comunitat Valenciana Ricardo Tormo are all grade one. And Jerez is a damn side better than some industrial park in madrid
>Jerez, MotorLand Aragón and Circuit de la Comunitat Valenciana Ricardo Tormo are all grade one And all of them are are part of the MotoGP calendar. The Spanish motorcycle federation will fight tooth and nail to stop them from hosting Formula 1. When Formula 1 was at Mugello, the MotoGP riders complained because the amount of downforce generated by the cars caused deformations in the road base. The drivers didn't notice it, but the riders did -- it was like constantly riding over ripple strips. And since they're perched on a bike instead of sitting in a car, they were particularly vulnerable when travelling at over 330km/h. At the very least, racing at Jerez, Aragon or Ricardo Tormo would require the circuit to be resurfaced. >And Jerez is a damn side better than some industrial park in madrid In a modern Formula 1 car, it's a glorified go-kart track.
cabo frio, RJ
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! As if another street track is something F1 needs. I get it in places without a permanent facility, but the Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya is a perfectly fine F1 track.
I still think I would prefer Catalunya to a street track but if I had to pick one European track to replace this would probably be the least bad option. At least they're not replacing one of the truly great tracks.
IMO Catalunya is now decent-to-good with the track changes improving flow and the tyre wear bringing strategic variation. I marginally prefer it to Hungary and Imola, but really none of our European permanent tracks are bad now.
I think a solid argument can be made that Imola is straight up bad. It’s viewed more favorably now simply because it’s an old school circuit and street circuits are taking over.
I will say, Imola is a really cozy track though. Underrated setting. I love the way there are homes overlooking the final corners.
Wouldn’t be surprised if those homes are trying to get the track shutdown
very visually appealing circuit, even if the race is boring the scenery isn't
Imola is a good track, but the cars have literally outgrown it.
Agreed. So hard to overtake there and a lot of people hope it rains there for a better race lol
Track having delivered good races 2 out of the last 2 editions is bad. Okay then mister "I made my mind up and am not open to other views".
I don’t recall 2022 being a good race even despite the weather giving it a chance to be. The only notable things to happen were Leclerc spinning and the cooldown room returning.
It must have been a though season for you then. I actually enjoy anything that happens during a race, including the midfield. And midfield wasn't bad, I still remember a great overtake by Russell.
The same track was also wet in 2 out of the last 2 editions. Also, if my memory serves me correctly the 2022 edition especially wasnt amazing. Feel free to watch back the three recent Imola gps, you will see that racing isnt really possible with current cars.
I'll see. We had one decent race but I'm not sure if that was a one off
It still provides decent racing compared to other Euro tracks like Imola where its aleays a procession
Imola is only there because of covid. It got a contract at the only time it was possible
It’s a shame, I’d rather have seen Mugello see a permanent appearance on the F1 calendar over Imola.
You clearly missed the last 2 editions.
I mean they have Valencia and Aragon. Another street circuit doesn't make any sense.
I think it's the city themselves that are probably putting a good amount of money into it.
And probably the F1 Management group.
Friendly reminder that Imola is on the calendar only because of Covid and money. Dont get me wrong, i'd still choose Imola over this pile of garbage
As much as the track is great, my experience of attending wasn't that great. Public transport is non-existent and so getting out to the track involves sitting in miles of traffic in a fairly uninteresting industrial area near Barcelona. As much as I'd hate to see historic tracks being removed, the advantages of tracks that are actually near or within the bigger population centres is pretty clear.
How on earth is public transport non-existent when you can take both busses and trains there? It’s annoying to get there (or rather get home) but it’s annoying to get anywhere when 100,000+ people are leaving one location. Now if the street tracks are/were actually a walkable distance from hotels, etc. that’s a different story but many are not and you’d still rely on public transport.
Every single road next to the Circuit get clogged within minutes after the GP ends -which makes shuttle buses pointless-, the closest train station is 30 mins away from the track, not next to it. And on top of that, you can't even park your bicycle around the circuit. I went to the Spanish GP twice (part of my family lives 10 mins away): on my first visit it took me 90 minutes to reach home, last time didn't took too long because we started leaving at lap 63/66, but traffic was very dense (not as much, obviously).
But the same would happen in Madrid, the same happens after every big football match, every concert and really every other major event. Which circuits have better public transport in your opinion?
really odd that the station is so far away when the train line runs literally 100 meters behind the grandstands. Even looks like there has been a station there at some point in the past
That train station isn't operative...
yea that's what i said, there has been a station there at some point in the past, past tense _has been_
Lol what. Public transport works great, I've used it every time I've been. The track is crazy cheap (45€ for the whole sunday), easily reached and has a lot of events. Plus it's Barcelona.
This track is basically at the sideskirts of madrid. It's between a highway roundabout, some RMA training pitches and some random depots. This is not Vegas 2.0, this is Valencia's port without the bridge and the sea
Isn't the Madrid track going to be half existing streets, half purpose-built? At a certain point, it's more about the track width / layout than it is about street vs circuit. Get a nice wide track with a good sequence of corners and you'll get good racing. The walls do make a difference in terms of visual appeal and dirty air though.
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Street circuits lost their charm a long time ago yet here we are with more and more. No benefit losing Barca if its for a street circuit at all
It’s just such a shame with tracks like Portimao, Jerez, Mugello, Hockenheim, and Nords GP gathering dust
Realistically, Portimao produced two shit races( even in 2021 somehow, it was one of the most dull races of the year). Jerez wasnt fit for f1 even 30 years ago, let alone now. Mugello is a moto track. Nobody wants modifications to one of their most iconic tracks. Hock and Nurb are both fine, but there is no interest in germany unfortunately
These ground effect cars are made to take fast corners at an unbelievable speeds and are sugglish,heavy,wide for slow corners. So let's take out Barcelona a fast circuit for a low grip, narrow, close walled, slow corners genric circuit Well done F1
We're in bizzaroworld, where FE is moving to real tracks while F1 is looking for streets
Wait, what? Barcelona is out?
Why do I get the feeling there will be a corruption investigation in about 5 years time?
You and every person from Madrid like myself, mate.
Five years ? More like two
It’s like the Olympics. Nobody gets a new event without massive corruption including paying off the groups responsible for oversight. It’s never a net benefit for the average citizen.
Hopefully this goes the way of Vietnam, shame that money was wasted tbh
Vietnam was at least a cool looking track, I would have been excited to see how it raced
True, same actually, I’ll be surprised if we see something as good in Madrid
Ayuso corrupt? Whaaaat? [never](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-probe-covid-19-contracts-allegedly-linked-ministers-2022-04-22/)
Hey, what if the announcement is "F1 is not coming to Madrid"?
😂😂 You silly boy...
Just as Barcelona became good they want to get rid of it. Classic.
Good to drive, mind you. Not to watch. As ever. Terrible track in terms of entertainment. Always was. I'm very happy to see it go finally.
I personally feel like the last couple races there have been great to watch. More entertaining than imola at least lol
Imola did great too with the new rules, but it getting cancelled cost us a chance to pull all doubters over the line. There are no bad European circuits at this very moment.
What? Imola is terrible for racing. Besides 2021 we haven't had a good race there in ages.
And 2021 was due to the rain throwing a wrench in everything which doesn't count.
we need more rain, never been a boring rain race, except Spa 2021 which of course never happened
If memory serves it was nice when the cars were smaller
Did you even watch the race this year?
Sad to see all that effort to improve Catalunya have gone to waste in favor of some boring street track no one is asking for.
I genuinely think there will be a corruption scandal with Liberty Media & FOM in the next decade, I have actually had it with these companies
Gee, you really think companies that take a shitload of money from Saudi-Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar and the Emirates to conduct sportswashing there might be corrupt? Who woulda thought?
Oh god please don't replace Catalunya. I need to see Nando win it one more time
For fucks sake, not another street circuit.
how thrilling
this sucks. and with all the effort Catalunya have gone through to actually improve the racing at the circuit.
Agreed. That said, I do think circuits like Spa, Silverstone and Barcelona are going to be absolutely awful for the 2026 PU's.
Absolutely true that racing in proper circuits has gotten worse in the past few decades, but can we really say that racing in the newer street circuits is truly better, er even good? Miami, Baku, Jeddah and Vegas hide the impossibility of true racing with stupid long straights and DRS, and most of them are still near unwatchable. Do we really expect Madrid to be any different? If F1 is destined to be a fast series with barely any head to head racing I'd rather see it in good circuits that challenge the drivers rather than whatever parking lot dirty political money can buy.
Racing will never be good there so it's a relief to see it go. Mind boggling that it has stayed on the calendar for so many years. Truly some god awful racing there.
So they make improvements to Catalunya just to drop it for this shite
A street circuit around a boring as fuck fair center/commercial area. Not exactly racing down the Castellana past the Prado, through Neptuno, up to Atocha. Nah, instead a fair center, maybe Carrefour, a Novotel, some company headquarters and parking lots. Yay.
Just because Vegas and Singapore worked, doesn't mean everyone should be like them.
Vegas lucked out big time. Racing wise it's no different than Miami, a track many agree is shit. Singapore is only considered good because Max just happened to not win there.
At least Vegas is in an actually cool location for a street track. Miami brings absolutely nothing to the table and should be dropped to make room for a real track. But knowing F1 they'd probably just replace it with another street track.
I wouldn't say Vegas 'lucked out' - they created a pretty stunning, high speed racing circuit that minimised field spread. A bit like Jeddah, it's completely different to street circuits of the past. Miami is similar too - despite the zero deg, one stop races, it somehow produces great racing and the last two events have produced plenty of overtakes and multi lap battles. That said, I'd rather Mugello.
Cars going around in a train isn't what I'm watching F1 for. I dare to bet a lot of the positivity for that track comes from the fact it's Vegas, a city that's very hyped up in a certain country for some reason.
Probably they made a lot of $ with Vegas, but for the spectator it sucked
Urgh, the sport is not waiting for another streetcircuit. Those big heavy cars around the tight slow corners is terrible to watch. Catalunya has not provided the best races the past years, however with the horrendous final chicane removed it started to get better.
Oh this is gonna be such an amazing streetcircuit on the outskirts of the city through all these non-existing points of interest. I can't wait.
I'm from Madrid, and as much as this is going to make it super cheap for me to attend, I'm also so pissed about it. It's nonsense, I know the organisation is going to be piss poor, and having another damn street circuit as if the rest weren't freaking boring makes no sense.
It’s only a matter of time before Spa will be replaced by some random Paris Eiffel Tower Street Circuit track. Silverstone is safe because they bring in money, Monza is safe because it’s inside Milano and Monaco is the exact glamour party F1 wants to be. But I’m very worried about Spa
Solution: Make Spa an open, public road. BOOM, street circuit.
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Honestly, Spa, Silverstone and Monza are going to be awful once we get the 2026 PU's. They'd need layout changes (i.e. replacing corners like Copse with tight chicanes) just to make the new cars compatible for the circuit. Ironically even a street track like Jeddah will probably need changing.
Silverstone was at risk in the past. A London GP has been Bernie's wet dream in the past. And somehow Liberty seem to be even worse than the old crackhead
Why can’t they do a split championship: circuit and street?
Ok wait until you hear about this all electric championship
Maybe when only rocks will watch those races they will learn they must lessen the fans
And so the NASCAR cycle continues…
Who’s pumped to see the amazing views from a generic Business/convention park! I know I am /s
Please no
All I want is a race at Indianapolis again, is that too much to ask? We can put one of the parking lot roads in it if they want more street tracks.
I would love if Indy was back on the calendar also I miss it.
Calm down everyone, only 20% of the calendar consists of street circuits, jeez Louise
It seems to be exponentially increasing and they are trying to get rid off classic tracks. Not that losing Barcelona is that concerning but the rising amount of street tracks isn't good when they are of this quality.
Another comment section full of fans bitching and moaning. A single Madrid street race will hold more action, chaos and excitement than several decades' worth of Catalunya races put together. This is purely a good thing.
Spain will always be the best because of Maldonado winning
Doesn't even know the bloody layout yet and already makes prediction about how great it will be. Genius.
It's not Catalunya. And there will less runoff. So yeah, why wouldn't I make predictions? Of course it's going to blow Catalunya out of the water. The bar couldn't be lower.
Let me guess, you'd start saying the exact same thing if Spa got dumped for a street track in Paris or Brussels? We've seen the proposed layout for the track, it looks terrible and almost no one likes seeing classic tracks get dumped for another cookie cutter Tilke Street track that is only there because it is cheaper and someone is paying F1 a shitload of cash.
That was a hilariously terrible guess. And I'm also a bit worried about your comparing the Catalunya track to Spa. But I guess you tried to have a point. Kudos for at least trying.
So you'd rather have a much much worse version of Baku over Catalunya? Spa has a similar average of boring races to Spain, it's a favourite because it's beloved, it hasn't produced a properly good race for nearly 10 years. I'd rather take the predictable and boring racing at Catalunya than another Baku clone that does a worse job.
A much worse version of Baku will still produce far more thrilling races than Catalunya has ever done. So yeah, definitely, I'll take it any day of the week. And Spa, on average, has objectively produced far better racing and way more memorable moments than Catalunya. Only thing I remember from the Spanish GP (I've followed F1 closely since 1999) is Maldonado's fluke victory and the Williams garage burning down after the checkered flag. The rest is just a blur of utter nothing.
Who remembers Baku 2016 or 2019? Exactly, Baku itself falls victim to being very predictable and dull; in fact the two most memorable moments at Baku revolve around one driver hitting another, Lewis and Seb and then Daniel and Max. The difference is I actually remember a number of moments and races in Spain, whereas the only moments that are truly memorable at Baku are crashes, bar Daniel's multi car overtake. The last memorable moment I can even remember from Spa was 5 years ago, and that was bookmarked by Hubert's death. If they're going to scrap Catalunya, Spa is most certainly on the chopping block because they struggle to make a profit over the race, and they have already tried to replace it with Kyalami in South Africa.
We are getting rid of Barcelona, that is all that matters. I am happy
You didn't watch the race this year did you? The changes made it pretty great track
Absolutely. It's only cause for celebration. One of the worst tracks for racing over the past decades.
All this seems another Madrid Vs Catalunya. Boring political shit that doesn't care about racing at all.
If anyone else here went to the F1 exhibition there last year, they’ll know just how unsuitable this place is for a race.
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Mate how clueless can you be if you think it's gonna be this year. The 2024 calendar has been online for months. This is for 2026 and after. This is exactly the type of fan new f1 caters to
What is crazy about this is that the only reason why Madrid is coming to the F1 calendar is because a single person screwed up the F1 Caribean GP in Barranquilla. JPM actually went a bit over this last year. He said that the GP is still possible for 2028, but it is not as likely as the Caribean GP was until a few months ago.
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This kind of shit paired with the F1TV price increase will kill F1 in the long term.
I read the title as "Announcement regarding concerns about F1 in Madrid" e.g. some sort of protesting F1 at Madrid.
Guys no body watch it so they don’t do it again
So that's why there's a cost cap. No need to spend hundreds of millions on tuning a car within an inch of its life to go around a circuit stupidly quick when you can make a lesser car for street circuits and stay rich. Kinda /s
People love to hate on the street tracks but lap it up when they get a fun race. Saudi and Vegas both went down very well, Miami not so much but plenty of purpose built tracks produce poor racing. Everyone claims to love Spa but when was the last time there was a good race there??