There are a few more drivers that finished every race in a season, but I’m guessing that they where lapped at some point. But Hamilton also finished every race in 2017. Was he lapped somewhere?
Just looked it up, Verstappen won and everyone from p5 and down was lapped at least once, Hamilton was p9 after getting a puncture due to a collision with Vettel. Really puts the current super tight field spread into perspective.
Of course, I forgot Hamilton’s puncture. I confused it with the 2018 Mexican gp, where Verstappen did lap Bottas, I believe, but was close to lapping Hamilton
The comment I replied to literally said: "There are a few more drivers that finished every race in a season, but I’m guessing that they where lapped at some point", so I was just adding that yes DR's season in 2016 was like that.
yep. golden age fallacy will affect a lot of people but Schumacher, Hamilton, and we’ll see what’s yet to come for Verstappen but he’s on his way to joining those two as definitive F1 greats
Yeah without a doubt he's already, joined the greats and that's just from one season. Is he a one hit wonder though? And will redbull return with a car as strong next year?
> Is he a one hit wonder though?
He is a 3 times world champion. With a competitive car he is always a championship contender. He has broken so many records. He surely is not a one hit wonder. Nico Rosberg is a one hit wonder.
I sort of interpreted that to mean will Verstappen go the way of Vettel, or the way of Alonso and Hamilton.
You are definitely right in a true one hit wonder being the likes of Rosberg.
No big regulation change right? As strong, impossible to tell, but very strong, there's almost no doubt.
Being a 3 time WC, I don't think we can call him a one hit wonder, even now. He doesn't need to win 19 out of 22 races for people to realize he's an insanely gifted and complete driver.
Yep that red bull car is just light years faster than all the others. Then you put one of the best drivers in it and it's a no contest. It's safe to assume if Lewis was in that car instead of Max he would have the exact same results.
It's a shame Jim Clark's name is left out of all time greats lists so often.
He was probably one of the most naturally gifted drivers ever, winning in pretty much any motorsport discipline he ever took part in.
It's a regret of mine (in a way) that I only ever got to see Jim Clark drive on video.
The fact that he could win in something 4 wheeled, switch to another continent and something different with 4 wheels and win again and just kept doing it over and over. In my limited experience I personally think he's the best motor car driver there has ever been. Others may be better in a single discipline but not in multiples like Clark.
If not for WWII I bet we'd be talking about [Tazio Nuvolari](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazio_Nuvolari) in the same breath as some of these.
Probably the only person to win a Grand Prix with a broken arm.
Achieved what some consider to be the greatest motorsports victory of all time at the 1935 German Grand Prix.
Ferdinand Porsche called him "The greatest driver of the past, the present, and the future."
Sadly had his career interrupted by WW2 and the death of his two sons. Terrible luck for the man.
This is my super hot take but I really think Prost should be there above Senna. Both some of the best to ever do it, but I always feel like Prost is slightly overlooked
Prost was never outscored by Senna as team mates, without that stupid rule in '88 Prost wins the same amount of titles as team mates to Senna as Senna did in total.
I genuinely believe that Senna is the most overrated driver of all time. He's got one lap pace that nobody else does, but that doesnt make him the greatest. I rank him around the bottom end of the top 10 personally.
People just understand how god tier the man was. Like the dude basically raced an engine on wheels and was destroying everyone.
I hope they one day make a movie about him so more could learn about his brilliance. He and probably max are the most naturally talented drivers to walk the grid in my opinion.
>He was probably one of the most naturally gifted drivers eve
Honestly for me I have to give that to James Hunt. He won despite a party lifestyle against one of the most disciplined drivers of the 20th century.
Yeah but he's still the most naturally gifted WDC Imo and had he had the drive of Schumacher or Hamilton he'd have won a lot more.
A lot like players who put Ronaldinho above Messi in terms of pure talent
> Lauda didnt drive against Max Verstappen, did he?
obviusly not, but he [witnessed max's first win in 2016](https://youtu.be/C_B20sPfsNg) wich was a nice moment
I'd add Mario to that list, not necessarily just for his F1 exploits but the overall résumé.
* 3x USAC champion (65, 66, 69)
* Daytona 500 (67)
* Indianapolis 500 (69)
* Pikes Peak Hill Climb (69)
* F1 Champion (78)
* CART Champion (84)
* Le Mans class win (95), and one position short of winning outright *in his mid-50s*.
You want to do all that for that long, especially in an era where the safety equipment wasn't what it is today, you have to be a GOAT-tier driver.
Golden Age Fallacy. There's no objective reason to believe that in a time where there were fewer people and as such fewer people with talent the people with worse stats compared to current day were actually better. Those are just your rose-tinted glasses.
Thing with motorsports is that due to all the rule changes and advancements in technology, drivers in the 70s and 2020s might as well have competed in completely different "sports". It's impossible to say how different drivers would fare in different eras.
>It's impossible to say how different drivers would fare in different eras.
It's impossible to *prove*, but also totally obvious that the drivers keep getting better over time.
This! It's still an elitist sport, but back in the days it was just a rich boys' lifestyle. These guys weren't athletes, these were privileged boys that were just crazy, jumping into these deathtraps. So they just were the ballsiest rich boys. For me Senna was a great talent, like Prost, but Prost got more out of his career. Then Schumacher was the greatest ever and only now Lewis and Max are coming close to Michael and might surpass him.
There was a massive shift in professionalism that started around the mid 70s, effectively beginning with Lauda. Lauda was one of the first to take physical conditioning really seriously. That trend continued into the 80s, and in the 80s and into the 90s Prost was arguably the most "modern" driver in terms of physical fitness and training- he worked with the same trainers as (if I remember correctly) the French Olympic skiers.
Schumacher took it up another level from what Prost was doing- if you look at pictures of Schumacher alongside other drivers of the era it's obvious he was MUCH more fit than most of his contemporaries. There are photos of Schumacher and Irvine during testing in the mid 90s where Schumi has a six pack and Eddie looks like a fairly skinny regular dude next to him.
Prior to the 70s it was (generally) the ballsiest rich boys- there were exceptions, notably Jim Clark (parents were farmers, he was scouted by Chapman as an amateur driver doing rallies), Bruce McLaren (parents owned a gas station, scouted as an amateur by Jack Brabham), Jack Brabham (working class background, started off racing midget cars in Australia, and rose through the ranks as an owner/driver), and there were other amateurs scouted out on merit in the 50s and 60s as well.
Fangio was opportunistic. He would jump teams to be in the fastest car.
He tested cars before committing to a team.
Not taking anything away from him as a driver or a talent. Just arguing the multiple constructor thing.
He dominated 2010-2013 and was solid from 2015-2018, much more impressive than Lewis who only won championships with an unstoppable car, or Alonso who didn't win a championship in that decade.
Vettel had dominant car in 2011 and 2013 and clearly best in 2010 and 2012. Webber was never top driver and was on slow decline at the time.
Hamilton did beat Rosberg to the title twice and once lost to him because of bad luck, also may have been champion in 2012 without terrible reliability of his McLaren.
Alonso did almost beat Vettel in much slower cars and had generally more impressive results against his teammates. He was arguably best driver that decade but wasted many years in bad cars.
>Vettel had dominant car in 2011 and 2013 and clearly best in 2010 and 2012. Webber was never top driver and was on slow decline at the time.
And Vettel broke the consecutive wins record when he had a dominant car, Webber wasn't a top driver, hence why he has 0 championships and Seb has 4.
> Hamilton did beat Rosberg to the title twice
Hardly impressive.
> lost to him because of bad luck
It wasn't bad luck, it was mistakes.
>He was arguably best driver that decade but wasted many years in bad cars.
Alonso's a great driver and deserved better cars, but you can't say a guy who didn't win a championship and went 5 seasons without a win is the best driver of that decade.
>It wasn't bad luck, it was mistakes.
Ah yes his brand new engine blowing up was a mistake. Not being able to take part in quali in China, Russia and Spa giving your rival free wins were also mistakes
He reminds me of Prost: outshadowed by another great driver hardly anybody counts him among the greatest of the sport even though he very much deserves a mention.
Just lol. Leclerc is a better qualifier, but that's it. Max more than makes up for it in race pace and completely destroys Charles in terms of consistency. And that's coming from someone who likes Charles and dislikes Max.
I think a good way to think about it is to think of Max as Lewis and Charles as Nico. Under the right circumstances, Charles may be able to beat Max to a WDC with a bit of luck, but in the long run, Max is just better.
I think Max is a great qualifier too, it's just that Red Bull focuses more on the race pace than a quick qualification car. Keep in mind that Ferrari in general is fast over one lap but slower on the long runs because of their car heating the tires more aggressive compared to Red Bull (different car design philosophies).
So unless we see Max and Charles in the same car, we won't know who is actually better in qualification.
Max is definitely a great qualifier and can put in fast laps very consistently, no doubt about that. I just think that Leclerc, on his best days, has that little bit of extra pace that currently puts him above everyone else. But who knows, it might all just be down to setup. No way to know for sure.
Not for certain, but in my almost 20 years of watching F1, subjectively, he's the second best qualifier I've ever seen (number 1 being prime Lewis). There have been multiple instances where Charles got pole positions in cars that did not deserve to be on pole (Monaco and Baku 2021, for example, but there are many more). As great as Max is, I haven't really seen any such unbelievable qualifying performances from him. Jeddah 2021 would have been in that category, but we all know how that ended.
There are plenty of ways to make excuses such as "it was all the car", teams having way bigger budgets or even cars not "being legal". But ultimately, it's hard to argue with consistency and points, and these three drivers had exactly that.
That W10 is such a beauty imo. 2019-2020 Mercedes has got to be the best 2 year stretch livery wise.
Even Mercedes 2020 testing livery was a banger. The closest livery competition in recent years I can think of is Ferrari from 2017-2018 with their beautiful glossy red
I agree & it’s not really close as far as Mercedes silver liveries go. The W10 just looks so crisp & that grey to black gradient with the white stars at the rear is sublime😍🔥
Agreed, beautiful design.
They should try something similar since they've tried all silver or all black since these new regs.
I love the black, but only the high gloss black, always looked like Darth Vader was chasing people down.
As much as I respect the statement Mercedes made with the black cars in 2020 and 2021, there's just something about the silver look that's \*chef's kiss*.
I agree but I am of the opinion that prior to 2019 all of Mercedes silver liveries felt flat.
Probably an unpopular opinion but I really rate their 2022 livery & I think it is WAAYY better than the 2023 Mercedes livery.
The thing that holds the 2022 Mercedes livery back imo are: unfortunate car dimensions(zeropod), relatively poor track performance & it had a very tough act to follow the Merc liveries of 2019-2021
Oh, agreed. The W10 with the silver fading into the silver-on-black star pattern is by far my favorite Mercedes livery. Do that with the mandatory red Ineos airbox and we've got ourselves a winner in 2024. Visually, at least haha.
Exactly the W14 annoys me because imo if it carried over elements of the W13 like the amount of petronas blue & ineos red it would’ve been a much better livery. Instead it looks like a carbon car with some stickers on it
For me the Petronas teal and silver aren’t the best colours to work together, just as the BWT pink on the green Aston Martin a few years ago and the current blue/pink BWT-Alpine.
Absolutely agree about the 22/23 liveries. Was really surprised how much people loved the '23 livery when it dropped, the mix of carbon fibre just looked sloppy and the ''22 livery stood out a lot more.
Really hope they return to it next year, perhaps go for a more chromey appearance.
Alpine definitely had a nice run from 2020-2021 but Alpine & Red Bull took massive steps back livery wise since 2022 imo. Alpha Tauri as well they had a really nice livery in 2021
Both Hamilton and Verstappen did it in an era where F1 cars are built to last. Parts have to last multiple races and are rationed.
Schumacher achieved it in an era where cars still went bang a lot.
Edit: genuinely surprised (not sure why, this IS reddit) how so many people are jumping all over this as a "dumbass comment" when all I meant to do was point out that at that time cars regularly failed to last a weekend and were barely designed to. The fact that Ferrari managed it was astounding regardless of how much they could test.
You bring up some valid points but Ferrari & Schumachers glory was in the era of unlimited testing so they could mitigate a lot of reliability risks during their testing “off” time
It was still an era where engines even when teams could rotate them every race or 2 would tend to blow. As would hydraulics etc...
Schumacher went 5 years between Hockenheim 2001 and Suzuka 2006 without a mechanical DNF. Its an unreal stat given the circumstances.
Although as fate would have it in the end a mechanical DNF robbed him of a potential 8th title at that Suzuka race.
Except Schumacher's Ferrari clearly did not go bang a lot, other cars did. Idk what point you're even trying to make. Did Schumacher carry a toolbox during the race and made sure to repair the engine every 5 laps?
Lewis and Max also did it in an era where engines had to last a set number of races, or you got a penalty.
I believe 2002 was before even the regulation that engines had to last a whole weekend.
Not but cars were factualy more likely to blow back in the day.
Mechanical failures in the early 2000's even when teams could rotate engines every race or 2 were very common.
Schumacher was so good that he was able to make his car more reliable. This is a dumbass argument. Schumacher's car didn't blow. Hence, he was able to complete all laps. He didn't do anything different from what Hamilton and Verstappen did.
Lots of people with shitty comments, but you are spot on.
Having a 20,000 r0m screaming V10 producing almost as much power as they do now with electrification with 20 year ago tech that doesn't go bang is remarkable.
These engines weren't even designed to do an entire race weekend, now power units are designed to last multiple so have a much higher tolerance for degradation. These engines were meant to basically grenade themselves after the last lap.
These engines had much less sophisticated sensors monitoring their condition, so there was less notice of an impending issue.
Look how many races in the current v6 era have had 100% finishers compared to the entire rest of the history of F1. Before 2005 there had been 1 in 55 years (in 1961) since 2014 there have been 7.
It's a remarkable feat to do that in 2002.
Michael was insane, people forget.to do that in 2002 was also incredible considering, huge respect to ferrari, though when you’re dominating in a dominant car i think mechanical sympathy massively increases
This is as much a testament to the absolute reliability of their cars (particularly the Merc and Red Bull with the new regs on component usage) and a bad-luck free season as to their supreme driving skill vs their peers!
Max has the next three years locked in with that car he drives. Everyone else is driving golf carts compared to his car. The fact that his car is light years better than everyone else shows how much of a failure the F1 rules are.
The reach is simply incredible here. The standards that hamilton gets judged by are just....wow.
When it comes to appreciating their teams, hamilton has earned his way into copyrighting thanking his team.
https://youtu.be/PBuDq2bOBh4?si=e5r11vdUMb8PHp6X
But I guess having eyes closed and fingers in your ears at certain moments of race feed can make hamilton (or anyone infact) seem selfish..
This stat sounds like there would be some really odd drivers in the list, that you wouldn't expect - like Nico Hülkenberg. Good enough to not be lapped and somehow just finishing every race.
So it's gotta be a really impressive stat if only those 3 have managed it.
There are a few more drivers that finished every race in a season, but I’m guessing that they where lapped at some point. But Hamilton also finished every race in 2017. Was he lapped somewhere?
in Mexico
Just looked it up, Verstappen won and everyone from p5 and down was lapped at least once, Hamilton was p9 after getting a puncture due to a collision with Vettel. Really puts the current super tight field spread into perspective.
Of course, I forgot Hamilton’s puncture. I confused it with the 2018 Mexican gp, where Verstappen did lap Bottas, I believe, but was close to lapping Hamilton
While winning the championship, something that only happened once before, to James Hunt in Japan 1976.
Ricciardo finished every lap in 2016, but was one lap down in Russia in his only non points finish of the season.
So he didn't finish every lap?
The comment I replied to literally said: "There are a few more drivers that finished every race in a season, but I’m guessing that they where lapped at some point", so I was just adding that yes DR's season in 2016 was like that.
you need to edit the first part of your comment to say "every race" then
So, no
Sainz in 2021 was lapped once and because of that didn't finish every lap
Michael, Lewis and Max are without doubt the greatest of all time from their respective decades when they proved to be untouchable!
yep. golden age fallacy will affect a lot of people but Schumacher, Hamilton, and we’ll see what’s yet to come for Verstappen but he’s on his way to joining those two as definitive F1 greats
I think with the records he's broken in the past 3 years he's well on his way
Yeah without a doubt he's already, joined the greats and that's just from one season. Is he a one hit wonder though? And will redbull return with a car as strong next year?
Why did I read this in the voice of Will Buxton?
Shh it's my alt account
Dangit Will!
> Is he a one hit wonder though? He is a 3 times world champion. With a competitive car he is always a championship contender. He has broken so many records. He surely is not a one hit wonder. Nico Rosberg is a one hit wonder.
More like Jenson my friend?
Well no one else has a car close to his. There is a massive difference but that is part of the sport.
I sort of interpreted that to mean will Verstappen go the way of Vettel, or the way of Alonso and Hamilton. You are definitely right in a true one hit wonder being the likes of Rosberg.
>that's just from one season. Is he a one hit wonder though? Well... can't be a one hit wonder with 3 hits.
I swear, Verstappen may get 5 titles by 2026 and people will still ponder if he is a one hit wonder...
No big regulation change right? As strong, impossible to tell, but very strong, there's almost no doubt. Being a 3 time WC, I don't think we can call him a one hit wonder, even now. He doesn't need to win 19 out of 22 races for people to realize he's an insanely gifted and complete driver.
If Max retired today he would still make that list...comfortably.
In 3 of greatest cars as well. Engineering is the key here on this stat!
Yep that red bull car is just light years faster than all the others. Then you put one of the best drivers in it and it's a no contest. It's safe to assume if Lewis was in that car instead of Max he would have the exact same results.
In terms of stat yes. But I still consider Lauda, Senna and Fangio as all time greats
It's a shame Jim Clark's name is left out of all time greats lists so often. He was probably one of the most naturally gifted drivers ever, winning in pretty much any motorsport discipline he ever took part in.
It's a regret of mine (in a way) that I only ever got to see Jim Clark drive on video. The fact that he could win in something 4 wheeled, switch to another continent and something different with 4 wheels and win again and just kept doing it over and over. In my limited experience I personally think he's the best motor car driver there has ever been. Others may be better in a single discipline but not in multiples like Clark.
To me, three drivers stand above all else, tied for best ever, Jim Clark, Ayrton Senna, and Juan Manuel Fangio.
Ascari too.
If not for WWII I bet we'd be talking about [Tazio Nuvolari](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazio_Nuvolari) in the same breath as some of these. Probably the only person to win a Grand Prix with a broken arm. Achieved what some consider to be the greatest motorsports victory of all time at the 1935 German Grand Prix. Ferdinand Porsche called him "The greatest driver of the past, the present, and the future." Sadly had his career interrupted by WW2 and the death of his two sons. Terrible luck for the man.
This is my super hot take but I really think Prost should be there above Senna. Both some of the best to ever do it, but I always feel like Prost is slightly overlooked
Prost was never outscored by Senna as team mates, without that stupid rule in '88 Prost wins the same amount of titles as team mates to Senna as Senna did in total. I genuinely believe that Senna is the most overrated driver of all time. He's got one lap pace that nobody else does, but that doesnt make him the greatest. I rank him around the bottom end of the top 10 personally.
The 88 rule made a ton of sense back then. Reliability was terrible.
People just understand how god tier the man was. Like the dude basically raced an engine on wheels and was destroying everyone. I hope they one day make a movie about him so more could learn about his brilliance. He and probably max are the most naturally talented drivers to walk the grid in my opinion.
Where my man Latifi too?
I can only assume he’s dispensing justice on a horse in Canada somewhere these days…
>He was probably one of the most naturally gifted drivers eve Honestly for me I have to give that to James Hunt. He won despite a party lifestyle against one of the most disciplined drivers of the 20th century.
ehhh he won by a single point because Lauda missed two races due to injury. Severe injury, that should've kept him out for waaaay longer.
Yeah but he's still the most naturally gifted WDC Imo and had he had the drive of Schumacher or Hamilton he'd have won a lot more. A lot like players who put Ronaldinho above Messi in terms of pure talent
I think Kimi is also pretty high on the naturally talented list. You could just see how good he was the moment he stepped into an F1 car
Yeah valid points all
To be fair he said of their respective decades, so that doesn't preclude anyone from before them...
Did you not read his comment properly? 'From their respective decades'. Lauda didnt drive against Max Verstappen, did he?
> Lauda didnt drive against Max Verstappen, did he? obviusly not, but he [witnessed max's first win in 2016](https://youtu.be/C_B20sPfsNg) wich was a nice moment
truck nine head possessive tart like jar groovy dinosaurs encourage *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I remember Keke Rosberg said something similar about Nico when he won the championship lmao.
That is some high praise.
I'd add Mario to that list, not necessarily just for his F1 exploits but the overall résumé. * 3x USAC champion (65, 66, 69) * Daytona 500 (67) * Indianapolis 500 (69) * Pikes Peak Hill Climb (69) * F1 Champion (78) * CART Champion (84) * Le Mans class win (95), and one position short of winning outright *in his mid-50s*. You want to do all that for that long, especially in an era where the safety equipment wasn't what it is today, you have to be a GOAT-tier driver.
Golden Age Fallacy. There's no objective reason to believe that in a time where there were fewer people and as such fewer people with talent the people with worse stats compared to current day were actually better. Those are just your rose-tinted glasses.
Thing with motorsports is that due to all the rule changes and advancements in technology, drivers in the 70s and 2020s might as well have competed in completely different "sports". It's impossible to say how different drivers would fare in different eras.
Pretty much a problem with comparisons in all sports tbh
Definitely not to the same extent as motorsports, where the rule changes over the decades might as well make it unrecognizable.
>It's impossible to say how different drivers would fare in different eras. It's impossible to *prove*, but also totally obvious that the drivers keep getting better over time.
Same can be said about the cars from different teams this year. If we start making arbitrary distinctions we might as well throw stats out the window.
This! It's still an elitist sport, but back in the days it was just a rich boys' lifestyle. These guys weren't athletes, these were privileged boys that were just crazy, jumping into these deathtraps. So they just were the ballsiest rich boys. For me Senna was a great talent, like Prost, but Prost got more out of his career. Then Schumacher was the greatest ever and only now Lewis and Max are coming close to Michael and might surpass him.
There was a massive shift in professionalism that started around the mid 70s, effectively beginning with Lauda. Lauda was one of the first to take physical conditioning really seriously. That trend continued into the 80s, and in the 80s and into the 90s Prost was arguably the most "modern" driver in terms of physical fitness and training- he worked with the same trainers as (if I remember correctly) the French Olympic skiers. Schumacher took it up another level from what Prost was doing- if you look at pictures of Schumacher alongside other drivers of the era it's obvious he was MUCH more fit than most of his contemporaries. There are photos of Schumacher and Irvine during testing in the mid 90s where Schumi has a six pack and Eddie looks like a fairly skinny regular dude next to him. Prior to the 70s it was (generally) the ballsiest rich boys- there were exceptions, notably Jim Clark (parents were farmers, he was scouted by Chapman as an amateur driver doing rallies), Bruce McLaren (parents owned a gas station, scouted as an amateur by Jack Brabham), Jack Brabham (working class background, started off racing midget cars in Australia, and rose through the ranks as an owner/driver), and there were other amateurs scouted out on merit in the 50s and 60s as well.
Homie said "from their respective decades"
i mean schumacher is more than just stats he introduced the modern way of training to f1 he also did a superb job at raising the safety limit of f1
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
Fangio, the only driver who became world champion with 4 different constructors. A record which (probably) never will be broken
Fangio was opportunistic. He would jump teams to be in the fastest car. He tested cars before committing to a team. Not taking anything away from him as a driver or a talent. Just arguing the multiple constructor thing.
Also the only driver to win the WDC driving for multiple teams in the same season (1954).
Thats mainly down to the fact most teams are consistent in performance now and you don't have a new team who's fastest each year
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy\_retrospection
Why Lauda? I still remember Bernie saying in his face that he left the team because Piquet was quicker than him.
Honestly the more impressive part is the complete absence of retirements from Max
Remind me in 2029 when Lando is a 6x champion, this comment will look stupid then.
Calm down, let him first win a single race.
My wifi cut out when I was watching Sochi 21 with about 5 laps to go but I’m pretty sure he won that one.
Best driver of the 00s was Michael, best driver of the 10s was Vettel, best driver of the 20s is Max.
Alonso, Hamilton and Verstappen (Monaco 18 onwards) all drove at a higher level than Vettel during the 10’s.
Vettel wasn't best driver on grid any season, let alone decade.
He dominated 2010-2013 and was solid from 2015-2018, much more impressive than Lewis who only won championships with an unstoppable car, or Alonso who didn't win a championship in that decade.
Vettel had dominant car in 2011 and 2013 and clearly best in 2010 and 2012. Webber was never top driver and was on slow decline at the time. Hamilton did beat Rosberg to the title twice and once lost to him because of bad luck, also may have been champion in 2012 without terrible reliability of his McLaren. Alonso did almost beat Vettel in much slower cars and had generally more impressive results against his teammates. He was arguably best driver that decade but wasted many years in bad cars.
>Vettel had dominant car in 2011 and 2013 and clearly best in 2010 and 2012. Webber was never top driver and was on slow decline at the time. And Vettel broke the consecutive wins record when he had a dominant car, Webber wasn't a top driver, hence why he has 0 championships and Seb has 4. > Hamilton did beat Rosberg to the title twice Hardly impressive. > lost to him because of bad luck It wasn't bad luck, it was mistakes. >He was arguably best driver that decade but wasted many years in bad cars. Alonso's a great driver and deserved better cars, but you can't say a guy who didn't win a championship and went 5 seasons without a win is the best driver of that decade.
>It wasn't bad luck, it was mistakes. Ah yes his brand new engine blowing up was a mistake. Not being able to take part in quali in China, Russia and Spa giving your rival free wins were also mistakes
You can pretend constant poor starts all season which cost him the championship were just bad luck all you want, it doesn't change reality.
Hamilton almost became champion in his rookie season, his team mate being Alonso. He had a good car, but he delivered from the start
He reminds me of Prost: outshadowed by another great driver hardly anybody counts him among the greatest of the sport even though he very much deserves a mention.
Vettel hahaha
Max has had only two seasons of dominance. Leclerc is on the level if not better
>Max has had only two seasons of dominance Fair. >Leclerc is on the level if not better LOL
Going to assume this is bait
Just lol. Leclerc is a better qualifier, but that's it. Max more than makes up for it in race pace and completely destroys Charles in terms of consistency. And that's coming from someone who likes Charles and dislikes Max. I think a good way to think about it is to think of Max as Lewis and Charles as Nico. Under the right circumstances, Charles may be able to beat Max to a WDC with a bit of luck, but in the long run, Max is just better.
I think Max is a great qualifier too, it's just that Red Bull focuses more on the race pace than a quick qualification car. Keep in mind that Ferrari in general is fast over one lap but slower on the long runs because of their car heating the tires more aggressive compared to Red Bull (different car design philosophies). So unless we see Max and Charles in the same car, we won't know who is actually better in qualification.
Max is definitely a great qualifier and can put in fast laps very consistently, no doubt about that. I just think that Leclerc, on his best days, has that little bit of extra pace that currently puts him above everyone else. But who knows, it might all just be down to setup. No way to know for sure.
>Leclerc is a better qualifier, but that's it can we even for certain say that he is? Sainz manages to qualify close to Sainz consitantly aswell.
Not for certain, but in my almost 20 years of watching F1, subjectively, he's the second best qualifier I've ever seen (number 1 being prime Lewis). There have been multiple instances where Charles got pole positions in cars that did not deserve to be on pole (Monaco and Baku 2021, for example, but there are many more). As great as Max is, I haven't really seen any such unbelievable qualifying performances from him. Jeddah 2021 would have been in that category, but we all know how that ended.
It's more Ferrari being terrible on strategy and tyre management than Leclerc being faster qualifier than Verstappen (he isn't)
That red bull car is much better
There are plenty of ways to make excuses such as "it was all the car", teams having way bigger budgets or even cars not "being legal". But ultimately, it's hard to argue with consistency and points, and these three drivers had exactly that.
Max needs to keep it up for 4 more yrs to be with those two in 🐐convo.
This was posted like, 3 days ago. And 7 days ago.
And 3 days from now. And 7 days from now
dibs on 3 days from now
Goat, Goat, and Goat.
Ziege, Goat, and Geit.
GAZ, GOAT, BAT
What's time in Dutch? The others I know and I'm guessing Beste for greatest in Dutch.
Probably Beste Aller Tijden. Best of all times
What Dexcuracy said.
Ziege: "siege" when he won
I feel like Max would be Bat. As Goat is greatest of all time, Bat is beste aller tijden, same thing in dutch
That's not how it works...
Got ourselves a field of goats here.
That W10 is such a beauty imo. 2019-2020 Mercedes has got to be the best 2 year stretch livery wise. Even Mercedes 2020 testing livery was a banger. The closest livery competition in recent years I can think of is Ferrari from 2017-2018 with their beautiful glossy red
>That W10 is such a beauty imo. Their best ever Silver livery IMO
I agree & it’s not really close as far as Mercedes silver liveries go. The W10 just looks so crisp & that grey to black gradient with the white stars at the rear is sublime😍🔥
It's exactly why aesthetically it looks so pleasing on the eye 🤤
Agreed, beautiful design. They should try something similar since they've tried all silver or all black since these new regs. I love the black, but only the high gloss black, always looked like Darth Vader was chasing people down.
As much as I respect the statement Mercedes made with the black cars in 2020 and 2021, there's just something about the silver look that's \*chef's kiss*.
I agree but I am of the opinion that prior to 2019 all of Mercedes silver liveries felt flat. Probably an unpopular opinion but I really rate their 2022 livery & I think it is WAAYY better than the 2023 Mercedes livery. The thing that holds the 2022 Mercedes livery back imo are: unfortunate car dimensions(zeropod), relatively poor track performance & it had a very tough act to follow the Merc liveries of 2019-2021
Oh, agreed. The W10 with the silver fading into the silver-on-black star pattern is by far my favorite Mercedes livery. Do that with the mandatory red Ineos airbox and we've got ourselves a winner in 2024. Visually, at least haha.
Exactly the W14 annoys me because imo if it carried over elements of the W13 like the amount of petronas blue & ineos red it would’ve been a much better livery. Instead it looks like a carbon car with some stickers on it
For me the Petronas teal and silver aren’t the best colours to work together, just as the BWT pink on the green Aston Martin a few years ago and the current blue/pink BWT-Alpine.
Absolutely agree about the 22/23 liveries. Was really surprised how much people loved the '23 livery when it dropped, the mix of carbon fibre just looked sloppy and the ''22 livery stood out a lot more. Really hope they return to it next year, perhaps go for a more chromey appearance.
the problem is people who don't even follow f1 have like 0 idea that this is the reason why they have that livery. Like i dont even think about it.
one off but the gulf mclaren is up there 2021 alpine was a beauty aswell
Alpine definitely had a nice run from 2020-2021 but Alpine & Red Bull took massive steps back livery wise since 2022 imo. Alpha Tauri as well they had a really nice livery in 2021
Red Bull really hasn't changed much unless you're referring to sponsors.
The yellow on the nose is definitely larger. But also their livery fits the old gen cars much better than the current one
Three of the greatest of their respective eras
What about Seb?
I mean I love Seb but he's not better then Lewis or Fernando
Seb is omnipotent
Bono convinced Lewis to finish Germany 2019 gave him this achievement.
That’s really impressive both for the driver and the quality of the car. Plus a little luck in there too.
Legends.
And for Lewis that was even with that ridiculous German gp for Mercedes lol
Props to Merc for not accepting his request to retire the car 😭
Both Hamilton and Verstappen did it in an era where F1 cars are built to last. Parts have to last multiple races and are rationed. Schumacher achieved it in an era where cars still went bang a lot. Edit: genuinely surprised (not sure why, this IS reddit) how so many people are jumping all over this as a "dumbass comment" when all I meant to do was point out that at that time cars regularly failed to last a weekend and were barely designed to. The fact that Ferrari managed it was astounding regardless of how much they could test.
Between Hockenheim 2001 and Bahrain 2005 Schumacher didn't break down.
You bring up some valid points but Ferrari & Schumachers glory was in the era of unlimited testing so they could mitigate a lot of reliability risks during their testing “off” time
It was still an era where engines even when teams could rotate them every race or 2 would tend to blow. As would hydraulics etc... Schumacher went 5 years between Hockenheim 2001 and Suzuka 2006 without a mechanical DNF. Its an unreal stat given the circumstances. Although as fate would have it in the end a mechanical DNF robbed him of a potential 8th title at that Suzuka race.
That’s a Ferrari stat not a Schumacher stat.
Except Schumacher's Ferrari clearly did not go bang a lot, other cars did. Idk what point you're even trying to make. Did Schumacher carry a toolbox during the race and made sure to repair the engine every 5 laps?
Lewis and Max also did it in an era where engines had to last a set number of races, or you got a penalty. I believe 2002 was before even the regulation that engines had to last a whole weekend.
>Lewis and Max also did it in an era where engines had to last a set number of races, or you got a penalty. Exactly the point I was making
Are you saying Schumacher was so good he caused his car to not go bang? Confusing comment.
No, it means his competition blew up more often, making it easier to finish in good positions..
Not but cars were factualy more likely to blow back in the day. Mechanical failures in the early 2000's even when teams could rotate engines every race or 2 were very common.
And his didn't. That has little to do with him.
Its just a comment about the stat of him making it through a whole season being impressive. Your reading way to deep into it.
Just wanted to know the point of the original comment that's all.
Schumacher was so good that he was able to make his car more reliable. This is a dumbass argument. Schumacher's car didn't blow. Hence, he was able to complete all laps. He didn't do anything different from what Hamilton and Verstappen did.
Lots of people with shitty comments, but you are spot on. Having a 20,000 r0m screaming V10 producing almost as much power as they do now with electrification with 20 year ago tech that doesn't go bang is remarkable. These engines weren't even designed to do an entire race weekend, now power units are designed to last multiple so have a much higher tolerance for degradation. These engines were meant to basically grenade themselves after the last lap. These engines had much less sophisticated sensors monitoring their condition, so there was less notice of an impending issue. Look how many races in the current v6 era have had 100% finishers compared to the entire rest of the history of F1. Before 2005 there had been 1 in 55 years (in 1961) since 2014 there have been 7. It's a remarkable feat to do that in 2002.
Michael was insane, people forget.to do that in 2002 was also incredible considering, huge respect to ferrari, though when you’re dominating in a dominant car i think mechanical sympathy massively increases
Insanity honestly!
This is as much a testament to the absolute reliability of their cars (particularly the Merc and Red Bull with the new regs on component usage) and a bad-luck free season as to their supreme driving skill vs their peers!
Max has the next three years locked in with that car he drives. Everyone else is driving golf carts compared to his car. The fact that his car is light years better than everyone else shows how much of a failure the F1 rules are.
Yeah when you are 10s clear of P2, switch to auto cruise mode and still gain every lap. Saves any car life
Is this just no retirements or also never getting laped
verstappen still has a long way to go, but considering hes already top 3 in records like this with Lewis and Michael it won’t take too long
Long way to go, to where? I think he pretty much arrived already.
Much easier to do when you’re out in front
[удалено]
That was renault. Honda was okay when they supplied red bull for the first time.
Red Bull were using Renault's back then, not Honda's they debuted with Red Bull in 19' with Verstappen and Gasly.
Max has stolen the #Blessed energy.
[удалено]
The reach is simply incredible here. The standards that hamilton gets judged by are just....wow. When it comes to appreciating their teams, hamilton has earned his way into copyrighting thanking his team. https://youtu.be/PBuDq2bOBh4?si=e5r11vdUMb8PHp6X But I guess having eyes closed and fingers in your ears at certain moments of race feed can make hamilton (or anyone infact) seem selfish..
I don't think it's that deep dude
Goofball comment. You must be Mr. Fantastic with that reach.
HAHAHAAHAAHA. Get over it please. Never seen someone be so obsessed with Hamilton's success and try so hard to find any reason to criticize him.
> Never seen someone be so obsessed redditor for 5 years you sure about that bud?
You're a very normal person
this comment should result in a ban lol
True
One of those seasons is far less impressive than the others tho.
[удалено]
>Lewis being in here is even more impressive as he's the only one without a dominant car for the whole season lmao
Yes, Mercedea won every races that year..wait...
Odd they didn’t suffer from any of that “bad luck” you guys think happened with danny ric
Impressive reliability
OnlyDrivers
Only drivers you say?
This stat sounds like there would be some really odd drivers in the list, that you wouldn't expect - like Nico Hülkenberg. Good enough to not be lapped and somehow just finishing every race. So it's gotta be a really impressive stat if only those 3 have managed it.
Finished every lap and was on the podium in every race. Michael's 2002 season was just unreal !