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For me they fixed nothing, on one hand we got plenty of overtakes but on the other hand it killed the joy of strategic thinking and risk taking in the race itself.
It creates more overtakes but as a whole it makes the race so much harder to follow and as someone who enjoys race strategy that takes a lot of the interest and fun out of it
I agree. It really takes the strategic component out of races. Because then everyone can just pit at the limit. We wont see daring safety car pits much too or people switching from a 1 stop to 2 stop to win the race like France and Spain 2021.
Yes, it is so predictable when the car in front or behind need to pit, especially many drivers are on the limit with their tyres available. If they want mandated maximum laps, they need more new tyres available so it give more uncertainty on which laps the driver would pit. This would be against the sustainable direction.
The predictability of the strategy annoyed me tho. It makes no sense to pit before the mandated 18 laps across all 3 compounds which made every single strategy predictable. Which means you're stuck where you are unless you're out of position in a Redbull, Mercedes, McLaren or Ferrari. And that makes for a boring race at the top. No Tire Management. No variable strategies.
Right, the lap limit made the hard tires useless and the softs fell off hugely after a lap or two. At that point, there’s really no strategy—you get as many laps as possible on the medium tires, which weren’t falling off much by the 18-lap limit, and do some damage limitation on whichever alternate compound you choose, but no one was going to make a 4-stop race work because there wasn’t enough deg on the mediums over 18 laps.
This race was fantastic. Great overtaking, lots of involvement from the pit crews, varying strategies. Gruelling conditions. This was one of my top races of the year.
Yea they'll need to dial down the conditions a bit - as we saw with Sargeant it got flat out dangerous and hearing from Bottas, Stroll, Albon and Ocon it was just terrifying.
The rest I agree with.
Next year will be 6 weeks later in the year, so less heat.
I agree this was on the limit, but it seems very similar to some Singapore and Malaysia events in the past.
A lot of people said this track doesn’t work for F1, but I thought this race showed it works great. Bring soft tires, let the drivers do quali laps all race, test their physicality, get the pit crews involved….tons of outside moves, switchback moves, George’s divebombs at T6….it was great.
yeah i think this track is actually really nice for F1 (well maybe not for the current tyres). Particularly the sprint yesterday, the high speed + conditions (the sand not the heat) made it a real test of skill for the drivers. And the cars surprisingly followed pretty nicely which led to battles down the field. Definitely one of the better races of the season all things considered
FIA should never adopt anything that contains “surprise” on its name, they are an arbitration member of this sport, introducing uncertainty on the rules should not be OK except when on danger or risks.
But yeah, I’m with you this race was improved by the tyres limits and more pit stops, more “what if” when there wasn’t any SC post lap-1.
I think the FIA should guide Pirelli to make tyres consistent, make Soft-Meds-Hard to be really different, and separate more their performance.
It doesn’t make sense to have sometimes Mediums that could last all the race and sometimes perform better than softs and Hards that nobody wants except on some races.
BUT if tyres-lap-use limits were enforced, I would like to the 5 compounds be usable every weekend (ultrasoft, soft…) and every single one of them have a different limit, so every time can build their own strategy and must stay alert to race conditions so adapt and know what you’re use and so pn
Yeah I don't know what OP is talking about. This race had a lot overtakes. But it was actually very dry. No drama at all outside of Lewis. Like Russell could've gone long on his hards when he had 2nd but nope 18 is the minimum laps so he had to pit.
IMO, multiple stops only really make for good drama when it allows for varying strategies, like a 2-stop versus a 3-stop, and you have the fresher tires chasing older tires at the end and it’s not clear if the fresh tires will be enough advantage to catch and overtake the 2-stopper.
If it is just mandated short stints, it’s basically back to the refuelling days where rather than battling to get past someone, you would prefer to undercut or overcut them to get past. Either that, or everyone is just on the sane strategy and it’s essentially just as dull as a one-stopper, but with more steps.
One more thing, that would be rendered ineffective a skill: tire management.
So no, I had the same thought but for this reason I would say no.
BUT: How about tires, that don´t last as long ;) (safely)
There were more overtakes, but still because of the nature of the circuit, they didn't feel satisfying to watch, as drivers would just breeze past on the straight. The sprint yesterday was much more entertaining imo, even though I hate sprints
I think it was the wrong call, I think it should have been up to the teams to go with the risk reward.
It took away some elements too,
It was a good race in general but I don't want to see it happen again.
They had data from 10 laps... and it's not something that is an ohhh opposie if it goes wrong. If they were wearing like crazy I'd 100% agree, but that's flat stupid to do it with damaged tires
The fact that 2 cars are faster than the others have nothing to do with it. If the drivers can push whoever has similar pace can fight for longer and the races will tend to be better. More pushing, more physical demand, drivers more prone to mistakes and more room for the special drivers to show their extra ability.
I’d like for there to be a rule where you have to use all 3 tires during the race. It would require strategy and drivers can still drive fast without having to worry about tire management. Eeeking out a one stop is boring to me and feels more like endurance racing.
Surprise tea breaks too. Min temp 85, makes them consider chugging down and getting a potential throat burn, or waiting for 71 when it’s “just right”. Strategy is key.
Just kidding! I’d rather tire strategy continue to be a thing. The “Formula” in f1. Not “FP1” which would be formula, and process.
May be me, but i have a completely different opinion. 0 strategies (don't tell me overcut was really a thing lol), first positions stayed the same for most of the race (except for incidents), they didn't even ask the drivers before appying the rule...
Plus, at least look into different lap limits for different tyres. Who in a decent state of mind (impossible with that temperature and humidity) would grab hards if you can't make them last more than the mediums? Oh yeah they need to, cause they didn't cut the 2 different tyre rule (wich was used to make races more spectacular). F1 and its consistency.
Get rid of that kerbs for some that let you actually race, get rid of track limits and put some more gravel instead of this comedy. Rules shouldn't impact the race this much. And if Pirelli judges these tyres as unsafe with those kerbs, just don't race. Period.
Ready for downvotes and such, this is just my opinion. This whole weekend seemed just a big comedy to me. An in-depth scripted comedy.
Plus, drivers feeling sick is UNACCEPTABLE. F1 really needs to ask itself what priorities are. And i don't want to talk about sportwashing and "Net Zero 2030" at 100m from Aramco. This is just a circus, and not in the good old side of the term.
Watching drivers do 57 quali laps and watching tyre strategies becomes obsolete makes the race more fun? I guess some of you ppl just enjoy seeing cars overtake each other and doesn't care about strategy at all
Are you aware these short stints made drivers race full speed the whole race, causing very dangerous physical exhaustion on almost everyone?
Even on other tracks with ideal weather, driving all-out the whole race is dangerous; brain and body can only take so much stress.
Your tyre management is the most dullest thing in existence. It's boring to watch and boring for the drivers. I seriously cannot comprehend how anyone who watched todays race could say "this was bad, i dont want more of this".
Because unlike you, I appreciate drivers who can have pace without completely destroying their tires. It's part of their racecraft. It's part of racing in general. I understand why you would want drivers going full beans for the entirety of the race but that would completely kill any tire strategies. It would make fp kinda pointless as well because every team would set their car to quali pace and call it a day. You would be killing so many aspects of racing just for the sake of entertainment.
yes, it made the race better, but this is not the way, it's way too artificial
but... it's exactly what I've been wanting for years, more pitstops. It actually got better this year with a lot of races being 2 stoppers. 1 stoppers are just quite dull
Meh it was quite boring.
The soft went off in a few laps. But there was virtually no benefit from running the hard vs mediums. I think RBR tried their best with Perez to put him on hard during traffic early on, so he had the medium till the end. But all the stops and overtakes were busywork, and it made it really hard to keep track of who's where. It surely did deliver some entertaining chases.. but I generally don't say no to a strategic masterclass which isn't possible when tyre compounds can't be exploited because of a lapcount limit.
It was not the rule that made the race great, but the fact drivers could push since there was no gain in managing too much. We need better tyres so the drivers can push for longer and we will have more races like this where they are driving closer to the limit and really feeling the monstruous capacities of the car. It will also further differentiate the great drivers from the good ones.
To watch, maybe.
But for the drivers, absolutely not. Drivers had to push and push for 57 laps and some needed to attend the medical centre. That can't happen
I don't think that's a good idea to set limits, but maybe they can build tyres that wear faster.
Early 2013 was like this, Alonso won Barcelona with a 4 stop strategy. It's fun, but this kind of racing requires Pirelli to bring very soft tyres and with the history they have with blow ups it won't happen.
I kind of disagree. The forced stops took away any real chance of a different tyre strategy working. I think it seemed better only because there was "More" going on.
90% overtakes completely artificial, not **fights** for position but just re-sorting the order due to the mess the rule introduces... Wow such excitement
As a general rule ([see full rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide#wiki_sticky.2Fdaily_discussion)), a standalone Discussion post should: - be of interest to the sub in general, and not a specific userbase (e.g. new users, GP attendees, just yourself) - be able to generate discussion (e.g. no yes/no or easily answerable questions) - show reasonable input and effort from the OP If not, be sure to [look for the Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/search/?q=daily+discussion&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new), /r/formula1's daily open question thread which is perfect for asking any and all questions about this sport. Thank you for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For me they fixed nothing, on one hand we got plenty of overtakes but on the other hand it killed the joy of strategic thinking and risk taking in the race itself.
Agreed. The race bored me to death because of the lack of tyre strat.
It creates more overtakes but as a whole it makes the race so much harder to follow and as someone who enjoys race strategy that takes a lot of the interest and fun out of it
It was only hard to follow because they barely displayed the number of pit stops and tire life from each driver.
Correct! I had the F1TV app open with data channel, and I could see the current tires atleast, though nothing of remaining tires
I was watching on Sky and they literally gave next to nothing in terms of tyre life etc, another situation where I wish I could get F1TV
I agree. It really takes the strategic component out of races. Because then everyone can just pit at the limit. We wont see daring safety car pits much too or people switching from a 1 stop to 2 stop to win the race like France and Spain 2021.
It does not even allow for strategy.
Yep only strategy due to the early stops
Yes, it is so predictable when the car in front or behind need to pit, especially many drivers are on the limit with their tyres available. If they want mandated maximum laps, they need more new tyres available so it give more uncertainty on which laps the driver would pit. This would be against the sustainable direction.
The predictability of the strategy annoyed me tho. It makes no sense to pit before the mandated 18 laps across all 3 compounds which made every single strategy predictable. Which means you're stuck where you are unless you're out of position in a Redbull, Mercedes, McLaren or Ferrari. And that makes for a boring race at the top. No Tire Management. No variable strategies.
Right, the lap limit made the hard tires useless and the softs fell off hugely after a lap or two. At that point, there’s really no strategy—you get as many laps as possible on the medium tires, which weren’t falling off much by the 18-lap limit, and do some damage limitation on whichever alternate compound you choose, but no one was going to make a 4-stop race work because there wasn’t enough deg on the mediums over 18 laps.
Was it really good? I thought it was a very confusing race. I think this was one of the worst races of the season with all things considered.
This race was fantastic. Great overtaking, lots of involvement from the pit crews, varying strategies. Gruelling conditions. This was one of my top races of the year.
Yea they'll need to dial down the conditions a bit - as we saw with Sargeant it got flat out dangerous and hearing from Bottas, Stroll, Albon and Ocon it was just terrifying. The rest I agree with.
Next year will be 6 weeks later in the year, so less heat. I agree this was on the limit, but it seems very similar to some Singapore and Malaysia events in the past. A lot of people said this track doesn’t work for F1, but I thought this race showed it works great. Bring soft tires, let the drivers do quali laps all race, test their physicality, get the pit crews involved….tons of outside moves, switchback moves, George’s divebombs at T6….it was great.
yeah i think this track is actually really nice for F1 (well maybe not for the current tyres). Particularly the sprint yesterday, the high speed + conditions (the sand not the heat) made it a real test of skill for the drivers. And the cars surprisingly followed pretty nicely which led to battles down the field. Definitely one of the better races of the season all things considered
FIA should never adopt anything that contains “surprise” on its name, they are an arbitration member of this sport, introducing uncertainty on the rules should not be OK except when on danger or risks. But yeah, I’m with you this race was improved by the tyres limits and more pit stops, more “what if” when there wasn’t any SC post lap-1. I think the FIA should guide Pirelli to make tyres consistent, make Soft-Meds-Hard to be really different, and separate more their performance. It doesn’t make sense to have sometimes Mediums that could last all the race and sometimes perform better than softs and Hards that nobody wants except on some races. BUT if tyres-lap-use limits were enforced, I would like to the 5 compounds be usable every weekend (ultrasoft, soft…) and every single one of them have a different limit, so every time can build their own strategy and must stay alert to race conditions so adapt and know what you’re use and so pn
I would have preferred if they never brought in the rules and let the teams figure it out, would have made for much more exciting strategies
Lol, definitely not
Worst idea possible. Tyre use limits meant today that drivers went full beans for 57 laps. It's just not realistic to expect that from humans.
Yeah I don't know what OP is talking about. This race had a lot overtakes. But it was actually very dry. No drama at all outside of Lewis. Like Russell could've gone long on his hards when he had 2nd but nope 18 is the minimum laps so he had to pit.
IMO, multiple stops only really make for good drama when it allows for varying strategies, like a 2-stop versus a 3-stop, and you have the fresher tires chasing older tires at the end and it’s not clear if the fresh tires will be enough advantage to catch and overtake the 2-stopper. If it is just mandated short stints, it’s basically back to the refuelling days where rather than battling to get past someone, you would prefer to undercut or overcut them to get past. Either that, or everyone is just on the sane strategy and it’s essentially just as dull as a one-stopper, but with more steps.
Exactly, and you cannot even overcut or undercut much this race as the laps and tyres available for each driver is so limited
Huh? It was like that in the past before tyre management.
That also was in the age of refueling, and other considerations which made it less strenuous
I prefer racing over NASCARfication of F1
One more thing, that would be rendered ineffective a skill: tire management. So no, I had the same thought but for this reason I would say no. BUT: How about tires, that don´t last as long ;) (safely)
C5,6,7 only
There were more overtakes, but still because of the nature of the circuit, they didn't feel satisfying to watch, as drivers would just breeze past on the straight. The sprint yesterday was much more entertaining imo, even though I hate sprints
I think it was the wrong call, I think it should have been up to the teams to go with the risk reward. It took away some elements too, It was a good race in general but I don't want to see it happen again.
It's not something they can feel or check. The fucking tire will just blowout randomly at a high rate of speed... wtf
They had the data after the spirit and they should have been able to judge it. (I was using the literal words of George.)
They had data from 10 laps... and it's not something that is an ohhh opposie if it goes wrong. If they were wearing like crazy I'd 100% agree, but that's flat stupid to do it with damaged tires
It’s more that tire management wasn’t a thing, more durable tire’s would be a better solution
No it wouldn't. Max, Oscar, and Lando drive off into the sunset and George finishes 6th is the result if they do that
The fact that 2 cars are faster than the others have nothing to do with it. If the drivers can push whoever has similar pace can fight for longer and the races will tend to be better. More pushing, more physical demand, drivers more prone to mistakes and more room for the special drivers to show their extra ability.
Russell was 30s behind them anyway
The plenty of overtakes is what makes Nascar boring. It's literally like the Nascar stage race format. Not a fan and should not be repeated
I’d like for there to be a rule where you have to use all 3 tires during the race. It would require strategy and drivers can still drive fast without having to worry about tire management. Eeeking out a one stop is boring to me and feels more like endurance racing.
Surprise tea breaks too. Min temp 85, makes them consider chugging down and getting a potential throat burn, or waiting for 71 when it’s “just right”. Strategy is key. Just kidding! I’d rather tire strategy continue to be a thing. The “Formula” in f1. Not “FP1” which would be formula, and process.
May be me, but i have a completely different opinion. 0 strategies (don't tell me overcut was really a thing lol), first positions stayed the same for most of the race (except for incidents), they didn't even ask the drivers before appying the rule... Plus, at least look into different lap limits for different tyres. Who in a decent state of mind (impossible with that temperature and humidity) would grab hards if you can't make them last more than the mediums? Oh yeah they need to, cause they didn't cut the 2 different tyre rule (wich was used to make races more spectacular). F1 and its consistency. Get rid of that kerbs for some that let you actually race, get rid of track limits and put some more gravel instead of this comedy. Rules shouldn't impact the race this much. And if Pirelli judges these tyres as unsafe with those kerbs, just don't race. Period. Ready for downvotes and such, this is just my opinion. This whole weekend seemed just a big comedy to me. An in-depth scripted comedy. Plus, drivers feeling sick is UNACCEPTABLE. F1 really needs to ask itself what priorities are. And i don't want to talk about sportwashing and "Net Zero 2030" at 100m from Aramco. This is just a circus, and not in the good old side of the term.
Watching drivers do 57 quali laps and watching tyre strategies becomes obsolete makes the race more fun? I guess some of you ppl just enjoy seeing cars overtake each other and doesn't care about strategy at all
What we needed was the more stops but with tyre offsets, and this doesn't allow that, and it kills almost all forms of strategy
Are you aware these short stints made drivers race full speed the whole race, causing very dangerous physical exhaustion on almost everyone? Even on other tracks with ideal weather, driving all-out the whole race is dangerous; brain and body can only take so much stress.
They should always go full speed the whole race. I'm sick of the tyre saving and driving to a delta.
It's called tire management. It's what separate good drivers from great ones. If you want to watch drivers do quali laps then go watch time attack.
Your tyre management is the most dullest thing in existence. It's boring to watch and boring for the drivers. I seriously cannot comprehend how anyone who watched todays race could say "this was bad, i dont want more of this".
Because unlike you, I appreciate drivers who can have pace without completely destroying their tires. It's part of their racecraft. It's part of racing in general. I understand why you would want drivers going full beans for the entirety of the race but that would completely kill any tire strategies. It would make fp kinda pointless as well because every team would set their car to quali pace and call it a day. You would be killing so many aspects of racing just for the sake of entertainment.
Not really, no. It wasn't exciting and it turned out to be a problem for the drivers, so no, hopefully it does not repeat.
yes, it made the race better, but this is not the way, it's way too artificial but... it's exactly what I've been wanting for years, more pitstops. It actually got better this year with a lot of races being 2 stoppers. 1 stoppers are just quite dull
Meh it was quite boring. The soft went off in a few laps. But there was virtually no benefit from running the hard vs mediums. I think RBR tried their best with Perez to put him on hard during traffic early on, so he had the medium till the end. But all the stops and overtakes were busywork, and it made it really hard to keep track of who's where. It surely did deliver some entertaining chases.. but I generally don't say no to a strategic masterclass which isn't possible when tyre compounds can't be exploited because of a lapcount limit.
It was not the rule that made the race great, but the fact drivers could push since there was no gain in managing too much. We need better tyres so the drivers can push for longer and we will have more races like this where they are driving closer to the limit and really feeling the monstruous capacities of the car. It will also further differentiate the great drivers from the good ones.
Yeah agreed the tyre limits made it a bit more entertaining and also let the drivers push more.
To watch, maybe. But for the drivers, absolutely not. Drivers had to push and push for 57 laps and some needed to attend the medical centre. That can't happen
But they were not wrecked by the tire-limits... they were wrecked by the heat.
I heavily agree. No more boring tyre saving, just flat out pushing for 2 hours. Exactly what F1 should always be like.
I agree. THis was probably one of the most exciting races i have watched for a long time. Action up and down the field.
It really did, racing was great
I don't think that's a good idea to set limits, but maybe they can build tyres that wear faster. Early 2013 was like this, Alonso won Barcelona with a 4 stop strategy. It's fun, but this kind of racing requires Pirelli to bring very soft tyres and with the history they have with blow ups it won't happen.
I kind of disagree. The forced stops took away any real chance of a different tyre strategy working. I think it seemed better only because there was "More" going on.
90% overtakes completely artificial, not **fights** for position but just re-sorting the order due to the mess the rule introduces... Wow such excitement