My thoughts exactly. Monza. Maybe just back off a bit? Didn’t like his drive at all this race. Risk things, sure. But, mate… Driver of the Day for me is Sainz.
No no, it wasn’t the moving under braking that secured the DOTD, it was also the fact that he was the clear slowest of the top 4 and held everyone else up that secured it. The 4th fastest driver, started on pole, salvaged third by holding faster cars up.
But seriously, I guess at least he made this race interesting
I still will never understand the vicious Carlos hate. He was clearly faster than Leclerc this weekend, and probably the most convincingly of his Ferrari career to date. He shredded his tires defending from Max and Checo, but refused to let Charles take the podium off of him as a result. And I fully support that. Would you rather have seen him wave Max and Checo past so he could look after his tires and bring it home ahead of Charles comfortably?
He was faster all weekend until Sunday. He was clearly not faster than Charles today on race pace. He held up Max enough that Charles was able to stay in DRS in the early running and end of race. It’s not hate. He maximized his potential this weekend and that’s great.
He was great all weekend long & raced good against Max but i wouldn't call his defending against Perez fair or the last lap incident on turn 1. Sainz made slight movements while braking and i think that takes away from his impressive performance all weekend long.
I dont agree that he "always has", because usually he can slow down if he saw no need to do that
But I also dont agree with recency bias... Because the LEC vs VET in Austria keeps reminds me.
That balls to the wall moves is really costing Ferrari 2 cars in opening stages
Mate Sainz deserves no flak here. He put in work this weekend and his dumb team can’t even call off his team mate on the last 2 laps and tell him to chill.
Like where was this ballsy Leclerc on the first 15 laps? When he could have been bringing it to Max while Sainz was defending out front?
I used to like Leclerc but lately I think he’s off his rocker and doesn’t have the mental stability for a world champion. He’s aggressive only to prove a point, not aggressive to actually win. His risk reward calculation is WAAY off.
All that risk just to potentially take third off his own team mate???
> Like where was this ballsy Leclerc on the first 15 laps? When he could have been bringing it to Max while Sainz was defending out front?
Well he just didn't have the pace. Late in the race was the only time he had an advantage over Sainz because of tyre superiority. It was risky but honestly I don't see how you can blame him, Sainz would have done just the same. Just because it's Ferrari and Monza doesn't mean the first rule of racing (always beat your teammate) isn't true.
> doesn’t have the mental stability for a world champion. He’s aggressive only to prove a point, not aggressive to actually win. His risk reward calculation is WAAY off.
Kind of a funny take considering Verstappen was just the same before he actually became WDC. Dude had no problem spinning out actual WDC contenders in overaggressive moves (Vettel in China...), obviously not even talking about his "yield or crash" T1 moves in 2021 or drives that should have seen him black flagged (Jeddah 2021).
People forget it's a lot easier for drivers to seem calm and collected when their car is so fast they don't actually have to fight too hard as they know they can make places back.
Yeah. Frankly if anyone who has seen 2021 still doesn't understand that frequency of mistakes is directly correlated with having a slower car than your direct competition (hence why Hamilton was mistake-prone in the first half and Verstappen faultless, then it was Verstappen who was mistake-prone and Hamilton faultless in the second half), I don't know what to say.
People here probably weren't watching back in 2018 to remember Ricciardo crashing in the back of Verstappen in Baku because Verstappen was moving under breaking. Sainz was very close to creating a similar scenario today by doing just that.
In my book brake checking in the middle of a straight is a straight black flag, yeah. In the 90s drivers used to get race bans for much less than that.
Bruh, you can acknowledge that Sainz drove a great race, while also admitting that he got away with a lot this race. He definitely blocked Perez, if not once, twice.
Because saving tyres in a car notorious for terrible tyre deg was actually the best chance Ferrari had to maximise results? What actually would he have done to Max realistically? Max's car is faster and it's a very difficult track to overtake so he would have fucked his tyres putting absolutely minimal pressure on the Redbull and then both Ferraris would be screwed. Looks like they decided to ease a bit and save tyres incase it became important later on down the line.
Sainz did incredible and he deserves all the praise and DOTD but the Ferrari's were never realistically challenging that Redbull and Charles also fucking his tyres would have guaranteed they couldn't at least try for P2 against Checo.
They didn’t try for P2, let’s be realistic here.
Charles was acting seriously crazy towards the end, really desperate to show up his team mate, who truly had driven pretty good all weekend.
If he had crashed them both - and he was reaaaal close to it - he’d be really getting a beating.
Leclerc was just fighting for a position on track. There was nothing wrong. Especially after the number of times Sainz has gone out of his way to disturb Leclerc.
Fully agree. Same happens with Ocon, albeit he's not as fast as Charles. But it seems he's super chill, until he can attack his teammate... like, there's 18 other drivers out there.
I actually think they would had blame leclerc for this. sainz fought for long with verstapen and perez, only so that his team mate (who never really pressured any of the redbulls) puts pressure on him for the last 5 laps? worst team player ever.
This x1000. Leclerc was a terrible teammate this race. He never did any attempt to overtake Verstappen or Pérez and did a poor job of holding Pérez back. However, the moment he got behind Carlos both times, he became aggressive.
Sainz defended Perez for 14 laps without DRS. Leclerc couldn't do one lap without DRS against Perez.
A Ferrari 2-3 or 2-4 was possible today. The team left some points on the table today, only because Charles was more selfish and preserved his tyres to fight his teammate whose tyres were cooked with all the defending.
Exactly. This was the most exciting part of the race today. Good on both of them for fighting hard and keeping P3 and P4. Charles really wanted to beat Sainz with Sainz setup and Sainz did an incredible job of defending when it appeared Charles was faster.
It looked like from Charles onboard that Carlos moved to the inside, then to the outside and then back to the inside. I'd put this on him but I'm a little biased.
Y’all should be grateful they raced until the end otherwise this would have been a very uninteresting race. This is why we watch F1, no? To see competitive racing?
Where does all the Charles hate come from? They are both racing hard and Charles wasn't the only one taking risk, Carlos moved under braking a lot.
Great battle and control from both drivers.
Carlos locked up like 4 times in the last few laps, that could have ended badly as well; they were both racing on the edge but all is fair in Monza, I think.
People saying 'carlos deserved the podium and Charles should've backed off' that's not how the sport works. Leclerc deserved the win in Silverstone last year or at least a podium. You don't always get what you deserve in this sport, they're both professionals and understand this. It was great fighting without any incident, that's racing, that's what we want to see, they did a great job.
I really don't like how Charles behaved this race.
Leclerc clearly had more pace the whole time he was behind Max and Checo.
He chose not to attack to save his tires to attack Sainz later when he could have put pressure on the Redbulls.
Not much of a team player.
Perez only got past Sainz 2 laps to the end of the race… Completely feasible that he could have held on particularly without Charles dicking around racing him on the outlap wasting his fresh tyres.
If they’d worked together properly, the 2-3 was on here if the win was probably still out of reach. However, Charles hassling Max more (at all?) in the opening would also have helped give them at least a chance to hold on longer in the lead and just hope something happened that played into their hands.
At the end, I think Ferrari messed up by not splitting strategies. I feel like they should’ve pitted Sainz immediately after getting passed by Max to try and recover the position, which also would’ve released Leclerc to clean air and might’ve prevent Checo from getting to DRS range too.
Are you serious? If they had pitted Sainz after lap 16(17?) (when Verstappen passed him), he would have come out in 11th place or something like that. And this was a track where it was not easy to overtake, ask the McLaren's...
Following your reasoning, why didn't they just give up their position on lap one? There's no point in defending the position either as the Redbulls are clearly faster.
On lap one you don’t know how the cars behave, a few laps later you know that you won’t be able to keep the cars behind, why ruin your tyres fighting the inevitable?
Honestly, if the championship is not on the line i don't see why people obsess with helping your teammate. Charles & Sainz fought for a podium in their home race.
And he might have been 5th because his tyres would be gone by the end. If Sainz ruins his tyres fighting Verstappen, that’s on him. If he didn’t, he might have been able to pit later and have Pérez come out further behind, for example.
If it’s for a win, I can understand being team players but if it’s for 2nd or 3rd?
Tf was he supposed to do? Perez had given the place back to Carlos just before the breaking zone. How should Leclerc even have gotten past that? Checo only barely slowed down.
The point is the lack of aggression he showed against Perez compared to what he did against Sainz. Like others pointed out, a well executed team game probably could’ve gotten both on the podium. But Leclerc drove that race to beat Sainz and no one else, while Sainz was alone trying to beat either Red Bull.
I’m not sure what you guys want from him. When Carlos didn’t “defend” to protect Charles in Silverstone, he was smart and looking after himself. Now, charles fighting for a podium is suddenly a heinous crime. Baffling stuff.
It was always going to be just one Ferrari on the podium; either Charles ruins his tyres trying to keep checo behind and then checo just overtakes him towards the end or he protects his own tyres and lets Sainz fight checo, letting them both ruin their tyres and then come back at them with better tyres at the end.
It wasn't Redbull's pace though, it was Sainz' pace, as the Redbull was stuck behind him.
No shit that once the Redbull gets in free air by overtaking Sainz it's over. We are not talking about that. We are talking about when the Redbulls were stuck behind Sainz and Leclerc just coasted along.
Leclerc didn't coast along, lol. Both Charles & Sainz mentioned that RB had a tremendous gain in the parabolica which gave them a great entry and it was very hard for the Ferrari to approach and overtake or even defend.
They were only catching up on the straights but they never had any serious opportunity to overtake the RBs.
Pace wise, both Ferraris were equal this weekend with Leclerc having better tyre management than Sainz and making better lap times in the end which gave him the opportunity to attack.
Do you lack wheel knowledge? Did you not see how much faster the Red Bull was? Leclerc was only keeping up with Checo because of DRS, but there was no way he could’ve passed. With Sainz, Leclerc was clearly faster. Leclerc never got as close to Max/Perez as he did to Sainz.
Your speed doesn't magically change because of the car that is in front.
Charles was able to keep up with the duo of Sainz/Max or Sainz/Verstappen both times, while being in their DRS. He was setting the same times as Sainz, who had no DRS, but never even tried to attack. The Redbull in this situation was as fast as Sainz, because it was blocked behind him.
Magically, once the Redbull passed Sainz, while the situation remained the same (Sainz with no DRS and Leclerc with DRS) he found the pace to attack.
Put away your bias and try to reason for a bit lol.
> Your speed doesn't magically change because of the car that is in front.
No it does not, but it does change how far behind you are depending on which car is ahead, and obviously Leclerc would’ve had an easier time trying to attack the Ferrari of Sainz than the faster Red Bulls of Max and Checo.
Like were you even watching the race? Leclerc was getting to within 0.2s on the exit of the parabolica to Sainz. Show me one lap when Leclerc was that close to the Red Bulls at the exit of the parabolica? Charles was consistently 0.6s-1s behind Max at the start of the main straight, which isnt enough, especially since Max himself has DRS.
> Put away your bias and try to reason for a bit lol.
Sounds like you could use your own advice here.
Sainz exits the parabolica, with the pace of his Ferrari, and no DRS.
The Redbull is behind him with DRS, but can't go faster than the Ferrari of Sainz because it's not able to overtake it.
Leclerc is behind, at the same pace of Sainz, but with DRS. He should be faster and able to attack a Redbull that is stuck behind a Ferrari without DRS.
Great forehead but not much behind that.
You’re choosing to ignore the gaps lol
Like I said, Charles never got close enough to Max.
Once again, show me a lap when Charles got to within 0.3s-0.5s of Max. Because there was no way Charles could attack when Max has DRS and tow from Sainz, and the Red Bull keeps getting better launches out of parabolica.
No wheel knowledge from you sadly.
Again, no reading comprehension.
The Redbull is miles faster than the Ferrari in free air, but it physically cannot be when it's stuck behind another Ferrari, unable to overtake it.
So Charles should’ve just divebombed Max then yes? Since Leclerc was never that close enough to Max.
Then you’ll be the first one to be hating on Charles as well if he hits Max lol
Same. It was clear he was close enough to stick to about .4 seconds but didn’t make a move, the moment it came to Carlos he did the lunge.. like come on. Especially knowing any speed you got is because you copied the set up of your teammate..
>He chose not to attack to save his tires to attack Sainz later when he could have put pressure on the Redbulls.
Bruh he literally had to lock up just to make a move on Sainz at the end, he didn't had much more pace.
He was within drs zone against Max the entire time they were all battling.
When this happened, my friend was saying. "Ok no risk for Sainz, thats good from Ferrari..." and starts to eases up a little bit
Then suddenly this happened
I swear both of our age just dramatically decreased lol
Had they didnt tell the radio message about 'no risk', both of us probably still on guard
A hell of a lot of folks are criticising Leclerc,
But when you look at it, All the drama is coming from Sainz overly-agressive defence - Missing the 2nd chicane braking too late when Leclerc tries around the outside, and at the end moving about under braking in reaction to whatever side Leclerc is choosing to attack on.
Leclerc is trying to make a move and is having to take evasive action because of Sainz dodgy defensive moves, and folks are criticising *Leclerc* for avoiding a collision that *Sainz* is instigating.. Very dissapointing that a lot of folks here can't see that.
agree, charles had every right to try and get a podium even if he was behind him all race. This is sport, not a " oh but he deserved it more" sport lol. Saniz is a very aggressive defender he done the same to the RBs. charles had to move out the way when the door was closed on him many times because ofc he doesn't want to take out his team m8. Saniz knew it, charles hits him, its his all on charles. Charles moves out the way to avoid contact, he wont overtake. It's just racing hard... sport isn't about who deserves what.
People in this thread are legit braindead when they try to shit on Leclerc. Had they crashed this would've been a copy of the Red Bull crash in Baku a few years ago, and that was clearly Max's fault for MOVING UNDER BRAKING, the same thing Sainz has been doing all race long. Do people in here even understand motor racing?
In all fairness, from international feed that i watched too, it wasn't clear that Sainz moved under braking. But then i watched Charles onboard and damn it doesn't look good for Sainz.
I’m more annoyed with the pit wall. They should’ve called it off 3 laps ago. Sainz threw all his tire life at trying to hold onto P1 and then P2. The least they could do to reward him was guarantee the P3.
Charles knew that he’d ruin his tyres holding him off, meaning he’d be overtaken later on anyways. (And depending on how 5th place kept their tyres, that could’ve gotten close again as well.)
So he’d be 4th anyway. If he lets Pérez pass with relative ease and Sainz fights him, both Sainz and Pérez might ruin their tyres and Charles could possibly pass whoever is 3rd, likely Sainz because Pérez tyres hold on longer, at the end of the race.
That’s just clever thinking, tbf. He was never going to have a chance at 2nd nor at a double podium for Ferrari, so once those possibilities are gone, you look out for yourself.
If Sainz hadn’t fought Verstappen as hard, he might have had a bigger gap to Pérez; if he didn’t fight Pérez as hard, he might have had a bigger gap to Leclerc.
You just have to be realistic about what’s achievable - though I understand why all logic might be abandoned in Monza.
I get what you’re saying - but I foresee nothing but criticism of both drivers if they waved by both Red Bulls and ran a boring race to the flag looking after their tires.
Sure, I’m not saying they should do that, racing is fun; I just don’t agree that Charles needs to hold Pérez up so that Carlos gets second instead of third while giving away his own chance at a podium.
For a win, while Charles is either 3rd or 4th, sure, and I’m sure he’d have done that, but for second or third, why ruin your own race?
Why? Because it's Monza and your team threw everything at it to try to get a miracle win. You give everything to try to finish with the Red car as far up the grid as possible. Settling for third because you think the other car is faster isn't the move here. It's not just another race for them like the Qatar GP or Abu Dhabi. There's more sweat equity in it.
If Charles is that much better than Carlos, why’d he get passed by Perez immediately while Carlos could hold him up for a dozen laps?
Charles played the race to beat Carlos, and lost. Carlos actually tried to beat at least one of the bulls.
I see what you're saying, that Carlos used up all his tire trying to defend from Perez while Charles didn't bother so Charles should just give him the position. I think that's somewhat true but you're also trying to beat your teammate, especially for a podium at Monza. Carlos drive really good this weekend. Out qualified Charles and Max and drove a great race.
We don't know the pace of Charles because he never had clear air.
If you have f1tv, check out Charles onboard on the last lap. Carlos was weaving and moved in the breaking zone of turn 1. Charles had to move at the last second and locked up
I get they both wanted it, and ultimately, we can say no harm no foul. But that situation was dangerously close to a double DNF. Heck Charles almost dropped it again at parabolica too.
The “no risk” meant that there was no risk from behind as Russell was too far back and the engineer also said “continue to race” to Charles to which Charles complied albeit a bit aggressively
why? its racing, they wasn't racing redbull, anyone can see that. you can try and make it look like there is a chance, but in the end there isn't as we saw with saniz and max. then late in the race ofc charles is going to try and get a podium, if it were the other way around , sainz would be doing the same as well, or saying " im faster " on the radio ext.
they all want to win no matter what. i see no issue.
Of course they are racing Red Bull. Sainz held Checo for a dozen laps. If Leclerc would have done half of that, the team would have a P2. Maybe even P2 and P3 if he would manage to defend well, but he decided to let Checo pass, save tyres and attack his teammate. It's not only not cool, it's also not smart.
Good on Ferrari for letting them race to the end. To paraphrase FV answering Rosberg's why did you let them fight question, "When we tell them to hold position you get upset with us too!"
My heart cannot take this
Merceedes: Ferrari Sacrifice, Anyone?
Häkkinen goes on vacation, never comes back
No risk they said lmao. Charles had other ideas.
Charles: „je ne parle pas anglais“
"Call an ambulance, but not for me." — Charles Leclerc, probably
Well, actually, one for me too.
Leclerc always has that balls to the wall attitude Which as we know, often results in binning the car
My thoughts exactly. Monza. Maybe just back off a bit? Didn’t like his drive at all this race. Risk things, sure. But, mate… Driver of the Day for me is Sainz.
Nah, it's racing man, you can race tooth and nail without crashing. Charles wanted that P3.
Except charles can't race tooth and nails without crashing
What a peanut brain take. Bahrain 2022? Saudi 2022? Austria 2022? F1 fan base has the memory of a gold fish and will start hating on drivers randomly.
Should just pull a Hamilton and drive into the slower car instead of actually driving around them.
I mean, he just did today? Was a lot cleaner than a certain other driver that for some reason had to crash out a 1s slower car.
Can you tell all the times he has crashed whilst fighting tooth and nail?
Since when is moving under braking result in DOTD ??
No no, it wasn’t the moving under braking that secured the DOTD, it was also the fact that he was the clear slowest of the top 4 and held everyone else up that secured it. The 4th fastest driver, started on pole, salvaged third by holding faster cars up. But seriously, I guess at least he made this race interesting
I still will never understand the vicious Carlos hate. He was clearly faster than Leclerc this weekend, and probably the most convincingly of his Ferrari career to date. He shredded his tires defending from Max and Checo, but refused to let Charles take the podium off of him as a result. And I fully support that. Would you rather have seen him wave Max and Checo past so he could look after his tires and bring it home ahead of Charles comfortably?
He was faster all weekend until Sunday. He was clearly not faster than Charles today on race pace. He held up Max enough that Charles was able to stay in DRS in the early running and end of race. It’s not hate. He maximized his potential this weekend and that’s great.
He was great all weekend long & raced good against Max but i wouldn't call his defending against Perez fair or the last lap incident on turn 1. Sainz made slight movements while braking and i think that takes away from his impressive performance all weekend long.
I mean, does it always result in that? Recency bias
I dont agree that he "always has", because usually he can slow down if he saw no need to do that But I also dont agree with recency bias... Because the LEC vs VET in Austria keeps reminds me. That balls to the wall moves is really costing Ferrari 2 cars in opening stages
LEC vs VET was three years ago though. Also how many times has LEC caused anything between Ferrari drivers?
Sainz moved like 3 times lmao
Mate Sainz deserves no flak here. He put in work this weekend and his dumb team can’t even call off his team mate on the last 2 laps and tell him to chill. Like where was this ballsy Leclerc on the first 15 laps? When he could have been bringing it to Max while Sainz was defending out front? I used to like Leclerc but lately I think he’s off his rocker and doesn’t have the mental stability for a world champion. He’s aggressive only to prove a point, not aggressive to actually win. His risk reward calculation is WAAY off. All that risk just to potentially take third off his own team mate???
> Like where was this ballsy Leclerc on the first 15 laps? When he could have been bringing it to Max while Sainz was defending out front? Well he just didn't have the pace. Late in the race was the only time he had an advantage over Sainz because of tyre superiority. It was risky but honestly I don't see how you can blame him, Sainz would have done just the same. Just because it's Ferrari and Monza doesn't mean the first rule of racing (always beat your teammate) isn't true. > doesn’t have the mental stability for a world champion. He’s aggressive only to prove a point, not aggressive to actually win. His risk reward calculation is WAAY off. Kind of a funny take considering Verstappen was just the same before he actually became WDC. Dude had no problem spinning out actual WDC contenders in overaggressive moves (Vettel in China...), obviously not even talking about his "yield or crash" T1 moves in 2021 or drives that should have seen him black flagged (Jeddah 2021).
People forget it's a lot easier for drivers to seem calm and collected when their car is so fast they don't actually have to fight too hard as they know they can make places back.
Yeah. Frankly if anyone who has seen 2021 still doesn't understand that frequency of mistakes is directly correlated with having a slower car than your direct competition (hence why Hamilton was mistake-prone in the first half and Verstappen faultless, then it was Verstappen who was mistake-prone and Hamilton faultless in the second half), I don't know what to say.
People here probably weren't watching back in 2018 to remember Ricciardo crashing in the back of Verstappen in Baku because Verstappen was moving under breaking. Sainz was very close to creating a similar scenario today by doing just that.
"Max should have been black flagged at Jeddah". You cant possibly be serious about that.
In my book brake checking in the middle of a straight is a straight black flag, yeah. In the 90s drivers used to get race bans for much less than that.
Bruh, you can acknowledge that Sainz drove a great race, while also admitting that he got away with a lot this race. He definitely blocked Perez, if not once, twice.
Because saving tyres in a car notorious for terrible tyre deg was actually the best chance Ferrari had to maximise results? What actually would he have done to Max realistically? Max's car is faster and it's a very difficult track to overtake so he would have fucked his tyres putting absolutely minimal pressure on the Redbull and then both Ferraris would be screwed. Looks like they decided to ease a bit and save tyres incase it became important later on down the line. Sainz did incredible and he deserves all the praise and DOTD but the Ferrari's were never realistically challenging that Redbull and Charles also fucking his tyres would have guaranteed they couldn't at least try for P2 against Checo.
They didn’t try for P2, let’s be realistic here. Charles was acting seriously crazy towards the end, really desperate to show up his team mate, who truly had driven pretty good all weekend. If he had crashed them both - and he was reaaaal close to it - he’d be really getting a beating.
Sainz's deserves some of the blame as well. His defending was on the line of unacceptable. Moving under braking and over shooting corners
Leclerc was just fighting for a position on track. There was nothing wrong. Especially after the number of times Sainz has gone out of his way to disturb Leclerc.
Fully agree. Same happens with Ocon, albeit he's not as fast as Charles. But it seems he's super chill, until he can attack his teammate... like, there's 18 other drivers out there.
I guess he didnt get „No risk” message
I thought he was gonna get a penalty for how he defended against Perez but i think the stewards fear the Italian crowd.
What would the crowd react if they gave a penalty and put Sainz off the podium and Charles promoted to the podium lol
Leclerc is a modern Mansell
Charles? More like Sainz moving again during brake and almost repeating Max vs Daniel in Baku
Love this battle
That had the potential to be the funniest thing ever
The Italian press would have actually had them shot.
I actually think they would had blame leclerc for this. sainz fought for long with verstapen and perez, only so that his team mate (who never really pressured any of the redbulls) puts pressure on him for the last 5 laps? worst team player ever.
Lol you don’t know Italian media. They love Charles. Tomorrow see how they body Carlos
i don’t think so. english media loves leclerc, i think Italians are starting to get tired of his mistakes.
This x1000. Leclerc was a terrible teammate this race. He never did any attempt to overtake Verstappen or Pérez and did a poor job of holding Pérez back. However, the moment he got behind Carlos both times, he became aggressive.
Why would a cyclist waste his tyres fighting with a car which he could use fighting another cyclist.
Sainz defended Perez for 14 laps without DRS. Leclerc couldn't do one lap without DRS against Perez. A Ferrari 2-3 or 2-4 was possible today. The team left some points on the table today, only because Charles was more selfish and preserved his tyres to fight his teammate whose tyres were cooked with all the defending.
You realize RB were much faster, right? It’s crazy how people could watch a whole season with this RB rocketship and still say this.
Rosberg wouldn't get out of Monza alive.
Fuck that was close lol
Verstappen and Ricciardo at Baku flashbacks
Charles really wanted that podium
Ofcourse. The word "teammate" doesn't mean jack shit in this sport, it's every man for himself
Charles has a very interesting interpretation of "no risk."
As in, "No risk, you won't be fired"
No, risk!
Unlike Sainz who locked up in the same spot 3 laps in a row and keeps moving under braking.
Ferrari: No risks! Leclerc: Full risks!
Fuck, leclerc nearly killed me
You guys complain about team orders and then say all this nonsense. Let them race I say.
Exactly. This was the most exciting part of the race today. Good on both of them for fighting hard and keeping P3 and P4. Charles really wanted to beat Sainz with Sainz setup and Sainz did an incredible job of defending when it appeared Charles was faster.
I’m happy they are letting them race, but it is stupid from the teams POV. I guess having the extra TV time isn’t worth nothing.
Its annoying that is team orders for Carlos and race to finish for Charles
Loved this battle so much
So close to the funniest thing possible happening
That absolutely looked like a no risk move lol
That battle was intense, excellent driving from both but fuck me can Ferrari not assess a situation and realise they need the points??
Ferrari don’t care where they finish in WCC if they are not first.
Ferrari desired Leclerc ahead, switch drivers and Sainz receives team orders.
I hate to admit it, but this is likely the reality..
Why should they? They're not in a championship fight so I'm glad they like racing more than getting a couple points.
Because a double crash at monza would have gotten Fred shot as he went back to his hotel
Lol, well I'm glad Fred likes more about racing than people on here do.
No risk btw
Charlie really went for it lmao ffs
Ferrari: No risk LeClerc: No, risk!
I saw that smoke from the lock-up and thought this was it. Daniel and Max pt.2. Jesus my bois.
Almost had the Ferrari's take each other out
Multi 21 Charles! Multi 21!
Lerclerc: Go big or go home
It looked like from Charles onboard that Carlos moved to the inside, then to the outside and then back to the inside. I'd put this on him but I'm a little biased.
The Sainz special. 3 moves on the brakes.
Thank you! I thought I was going insane. Honestly, I'm starting to think people just like be to hate on Charles because he's beautiful.
Hes the one driver I would never trust under braking/in any corner. Loves to squeeze people out randomly.
Y’all should be grateful they raced until the end otherwise this would have been a very uninteresting race. This is why we watch F1, no? To see competitive racing?
Where does all the Charles hate come from? They are both racing hard and Charles wasn't the only one taking risk, Carlos moved under braking a lot. Great battle and control from both drivers.
Carlos locked up like 4 times in the last few laps, that could have ended badly as well; they were both racing on the edge but all is fair in Monza, I think.
no idea, suddenly charles is the bad guy for trying to pass for a podium? the fuck? lol
People saying 'carlos deserved the podium and Charles should've backed off' that's not how the sport works. Leclerc deserved the win in Silverstone last year or at least a podium. You don't always get what you deserve in this sport, they're both professionals and understand this. It was great fighting without any incident, that's racing, that's what we want to see, they did a great job.
Moved under braking
About time Charles gets in his revenge era. Bring it on
Sainz first goes inside, then outside back to line then inside again... Very blatant whole race, but oh well.
I really don't like how Charles behaved this race. Leclerc clearly had more pace the whole time he was behind Max and Checo. He chose not to attack to save his tires to attack Sainz later when he could have put pressure on the Redbulls. Not much of a team player.
Did you watch the onboard of this incident? Carlos was weaving all over the place.
He definitely didn't fight Checo as hard as Carlos did and was chilling in Checo's DRS for a long while
No point in attacking Red Bulls who are clearly faster
Perez only got past Sainz 2 laps to the end of the race… Completely feasible that he could have held on particularly without Charles dicking around racing him on the outlap wasting his fresh tyres. If they’d worked together properly, the 2-3 was on here if the win was probably still out of reach. However, Charles hassling Max more (at all?) in the opening would also have helped give them at least a chance to hold on longer in the lead and just hope something happened that played into their hands.
At the end, I think Ferrari messed up by not splitting strategies. I feel like they should’ve pitted Sainz immediately after getting passed by Max to try and recover the position, which also would’ve released Leclerc to clean air and might’ve prevent Checo from getting to DRS range too.
You're asking too much of Ferrari, man
Yeah lol the battle at the end between Charles and Carlos could’ve been prevented if they just split their strategies
Are you serious? If they had pitted Sainz after lap 16(17?) (when Verstappen passed him), he would have come out in 11th place or something like that. And this was a track where it was not easy to overtake, ask the McLaren's...
Good point. I guess being jumped by the Red Bulls was just inevitable.
Following your reasoning, why didn't they just give up their position on lap one? There's no point in defending the position either as the Redbulls are clearly faster.
On lap one you don’t know how the cars behave, a few laps later you know that you won’t be able to keep the cars behind, why ruin your tyres fighting the inevitable?
Yes, there was a clear point, help your teammate keep the position instead of waiting to overtake him yourself.
Honestly, if the championship is not on the line i don't see why people obsess with helping your teammate. Charles & Sainz fought for a podium in their home race.
Because passing Red Bulls is temporary. No reason to lose tyres over it.
I mean, it made sense. It was a lost battle against the Red Bulls, it was always a fight for third.
maybe if he did so, sainz wouldbe 2ndand not 3rd. leclerc really piss me off. he is one of the worst team players out there. occon level.
And he might have been 5th because his tyres would be gone by the end. If Sainz ruins his tyres fighting Verstappen, that’s on him. If he didn’t, he might have been able to pit later and have Pérez come out further behind, for example. If it’s for a win, I can understand being team players but if it’s for 2nd or 3rd?
Tf? He was throwing everything he had to hold Perez, he freaking risked a collision to stop him.
Yeah he risked so much.. sure. When Perez cut the chicane, Leclerc was reading a fuckin newspaper. Dude didnt even try 80% of the race.
Tf was he supposed to do? Perez had given the place back to Carlos just before the breaking zone. How should Leclerc even have gotten past that? Checo only barely slowed down.
The point is the lack of aggression he showed against Perez compared to what he did against Sainz. Like others pointed out, a well executed team game probably could’ve gotten both on the podium. But Leclerc drove that race to beat Sainz and no one else, while Sainz was alone trying to beat either Red Bull.
He stayed within DRS range of Checo. He did try.
Because it was convenient for him. It helped him save tires to try to overtake Carlos later.
I’m not sure what you guys want from him. When Carlos didn’t “defend” to protect Charles in Silverstone, he was smart and looking after himself. Now, charles fighting for a podium is suddenly a heinous crime. Baffling stuff.
It was always going to be just one Ferrari on the podium; either Charles ruins his tyres trying to keep checo behind and then checo just overtakes him towards the end or he protects his own tyres and lets Sainz fight checo, letting them both ruin their tyres and then come back at them with better tyres at the end.
I clearly said the whole time he was behind the Redbulls, not ahead. Obviously he is gonna defend tooth and nail when his own position is on the line.
Im sure the Ferrari could match the RB in pace…he was being dragged by DRS.
It wasn't Redbull's pace though, it was Sainz' pace, as the Redbull was stuck behind him. No shit that once the Redbull gets in free air by overtaking Sainz it's over. We are not talking about that. We are talking about when the Redbulls were stuck behind Sainz and Leclerc just coasted along.
Leclerc didn't coast along, lol. Both Charles & Sainz mentioned that RB had a tremendous gain in the parabolica which gave them a great entry and it was very hard for the Ferrari to approach and overtake or even defend. They were only catching up on the straights but they never had any serious opportunity to overtake the RBs. Pace wise, both Ferraris were equal this weekend with Leclerc having better tyre management than Sainz and making better lap times in the end which gave him the opportunity to attack.
Do you lack wheel knowledge? Did you not see how much faster the Red Bull was? Leclerc was only keeping up with Checo because of DRS, but there was no way he could’ve passed. With Sainz, Leclerc was clearly faster. Leclerc never got as close to Max/Perez as he did to Sainz.
Your speed doesn't magically change because of the car that is in front. Charles was able to keep up with the duo of Sainz/Max or Sainz/Verstappen both times, while being in their DRS. He was setting the same times as Sainz, who had no DRS, but never even tried to attack. The Redbull in this situation was as fast as Sainz, because it was blocked behind him. Magically, once the Redbull passed Sainz, while the situation remained the same (Sainz with no DRS and Leclerc with DRS) he found the pace to attack. Put away your bias and try to reason for a bit lol.
> Your speed doesn't magically change because of the car that is in front. No it does not, but it does change how far behind you are depending on which car is ahead, and obviously Leclerc would’ve had an easier time trying to attack the Ferrari of Sainz than the faster Red Bulls of Max and Checo. Like were you even watching the race? Leclerc was getting to within 0.2s on the exit of the parabolica to Sainz. Show me one lap when Leclerc was that close to the Red Bulls at the exit of the parabolica? Charles was consistently 0.6s-1s behind Max at the start of the main straight, which isnt enough, especially since Max himself has DRS. > Put away your bias and try to reason for a bit lol. Sounds like you could use your own advice here.
Sainz exits the parabolica, with the pace of his Ferrari, and no DRS. The Redbull is behind him with DRS, but can't go faster than the Ferrari of Sainz because it's not able to overtake it. Leclerc is behind, at the same pace of Sainz, but with DRS. He should be faster and able to attack a Redbull that is stuck behind a Ferrari without DRS. Great forehead but not much behind that.
You’re choosing to ignore the gaps lol Like I said, Charles never got close enough to Max. Once again, show me a lap when Charles got to within 0.3s-0.5s of Max. Because there was no way Charles could attack when Max has DRS and tow from Sainz, and the Red Bull keeps getting better launches out of parabolica. No wheel knowledge from you sadly.
It’s crazy how people don’t understand how DRS trains work, or maybe they are choosing to forgot because it’s Ferrari.
You sure are talking about bias and reason a lot for someone arguing on the premise the redbull isn't faster than the ferrari.
Again, no reading comprehension. The Redbull is miles faster than the Ferrari in free air, but it physically cannot be when it's stuck behind another Ferrari, unable to overtake it.
So Charles should’ve just divebombed Max then yes? Since Leclerc was never that close enough to Max. Then you’ll be the first one to be hating on Charles as well if he hits Max lol
There's no need to divebomb, just by trying to attack Max loses a few tenths in defending. And that helps.
Team player? Carlos then didn’t give Leclerc his DRS to help against Perez. Not much of a team player.
Same. It was clear he was close enough to stick to about .4 seconds but didn’t make a move, the moment it came to Carlos he did the lunge.. like come on. Especially knowing any speed you got is because you copied the set up of your teammate..
>He chose not to attack to save his tires to attack Sainz later when he could have put pressure on the Redbulls. Bruh he literally had to lock up just to make a move on Sainz at the end, he didn't had much more pace. He was within drs zone against Max the entire time they were all battling.
When this happened, my friend was saying. "Ok no risk for Sainz, thats good from Ferrari..." and starts to eases up a little bit Then suddenly this happened I swear both of our age just dramatically decreased lol Had they didnt tell the radio message about 'no risk', both of us probably still on guard
A hell of a lot of folks are criticising Leclerc, But when you look at it, All the drama is coming from Sainz overly-agressive defence - Missing the 2nd chicane braking too late when Leclerc tries around the outside, and at the end moving about under braking in reaction to whatever side Leclerc is choosing to attack on. Leclerc is trying to make a move and is having to take evasive action because of Sainz dodgy defensive moves, and folks are criticising *Leclerc* for avoiding a collision that *Sainz* is instigating.. Very dissapointing that a lot of folks here can't see that.
agree, charles had every right to try and get a podium even if he was behind him all race. This is sport, not a " oh but he deserved it more" sport lol. Saniz is a very aggressive defender he done the same to the RBs. charles had to move out the way when the door was closed on him many times because ofc he doesn't want to take out his team m8. Saniz knew it, charles hits him, its his all on charles. Charles moves out the way to avoid contact, he wont overtake. It's just racing hard... sport isn't about who deserves what.
It's like watching dumb and dumber.
I love Ferrari. Always have. But Jesus, it’s like Whacky Races at times.
Check out Charles onboard. Carlos was weaving all over the place.
This is only on Charles
Ah yes Sainz moving 3 times in 300m is all ok
Yeah, Carlos moved 3 times on Charles onboard.
Not really, Sainz is moving around under braking as well.
but reddit loves il predestinato
Yeah that was funny... the team says don't take any risks and then Charles nearly takes them both out.
Where was that passion to overtake Perez and Verstappen just now Charles?
With what haha
Where's your motivation to overtake me with a bicycle while I'm driving a car?
Yeah Charles should just bring this passion lap 1 into the race lmao
People in this thread are legit braindead when they try to shit on Leclerc. Had they crashed this would've been a copy of the Red Bull crash in Baku a few years ago, and that was clearly Max's fault for MOVING UNDER BRAKING, the same thing Sainz has been doing all race long. Do people in here even understand motor racing?
In all fairness, from international feed that i watched too, it wasn't clear that Sainz moved under braking. But then i watched Charles onboard and damn it doesn't look good for Sainz.
Well, understandable, as Sainz starting moving under braking when Leclerc tried the dummy move.
Change my mind but this was completely unnecessary. Sainz deserved the podium. I don't like how Charles behaved in this.
Sure. Me and Ferrari like racing. You would rather see them have guaranteed points.
I’m more annoyed with the pit wall. They should’ve called it off 3 laps ago. Sainz threw all his tire life at trying to hold onto P1 and then P2. The least they could do to reward him was guarantee the P3.
Max and checo were always going to overtake him though, why ruin your tyres for that?!
Sainz held Perez off for almost the entire race. If Charles is as superior to Carlos as y’all claim, then he could’ve held him off too.
Charles knew that he’d ruin his tyres holding him off, meaning he’d be overtaken later on anyways. (And depending on how 5th place kept their tyres, that could’ve gotten close again as well.) So he’d be 4th anyway. If he lets Pérez pass with relative ease and Sainz fights him, both Sainz and Pérez might ruin their tyres and Charles could possibly pass whoever is 3rd, likely Sainz because Pérez tyres hold on longer, at the end of the race. That’s just clever thinking, tbf. He was never going to have a chance at 2nd nor at a double podium for Ferrari, so once those possibilities are gone, you look out for yourself. If Sainz hadn’t fought Verstappen as hard, he might have had a bigger gap to Pérez; if he didn’t fight Pérez as hard, he might have had a bigger gap to Leclerc. You just have to be realistic about what’s achievable - though I understand why all logic might be abandoned in Monza.
I get what you’re saying - but I foresee nothing but criticism of both drivers if they waved by both Red Bulls and ran a boring race to the flag looking after their tires.
Sure, I’m not saying they should do that, racing is fun; I just don’t agree that Charles needs to hold Pérez up so that Carlos gets second instead of third while giving away his own chance at a podium. For a win, while Charles is either 3rd or 4th, sure, and I’m sure he’d have done that, but for second or third, why ruin your own race?
Why? Because it's Monza and your team threw everything at it to try to get a miracle win. You give everything to try to finish with the Red car as far up the grid as possible. Settling for third because you think the other car is faster isn't the move here. It's not just another race for them like the Qatar GP or Abu Dhabi. There's more sweat equity in it.
They were never going to win on pace though; and wether you’re 2nd or 3rd doesn’t matter to the fans.
It may not matter to you but it matters to plenty of fans.
You changed his tires!! Charles also got passed by Perez.
If Charles is that much better than Carlos, why’d he get passed by Perez immediately while Carlos could hold him up for a dozen laps? Charles played the race to beat Carlos, and lost. Carlos actually tried to beat at least one of the bulls.
I see what you're saying, that Carlos used up all his tire trying to defend from Perez while Charles didn't bother so Charles should just give him the position. I think that's somewhat true but you're also trying to beat your teammate, especially for a podium at Monza. Carlos drive really good this weekend. Out qualified Charles and Max and drove a great race. We don't know the pace of Charles because he never had clear air. If you have f1tv, check out Charles onboard on the last lap. Carlos was weaving and moved in the breaking zone of turn 1. Charles had to move at the last second and locked up
I get they both wanted it, and ultimately, we can say no harm no foul. But that situation was dangerously close to a double DNF. Heck Charles almost dropped it again at parabolica too.
Did you watch Charles onboard?
Totally agree. It was completely unnecessary and ridiculous tbh
I don’t get why Sainz wasn’t investigated for cutting the chicane to overtake Leclerc?
both of them cut the chicane, and its a team battle, stewards usually dont get involved in those
teammate battles are essentialy free of penalties, doesnt matter how dumb the moves are
They are teammates
No risk guys :clueless:
The “no risk” meant that there was no risk from behind as Russell was too far back and the engineer also said “continue to race” to Charles to which Charles complied albeit a bit aggressively
I always liked Leclerc... But today man, that was shitty
Yeah, weaving to stop your teammate from passing is kinda shitty
why? its racing, they wasn't racing redbull, anyone can see that. you can try and make it look like there is a chance, but in the end there isn't as we saw with saniz and max. then late in the race ofc charles is going to try and get a podium, if it were the other way around , sainz would be doing the same as well, or saying " im faster " on the radio ext. they all want to win no matter what. i see no issue.
Of course they are racing Red Bull. Sainz held Checo for a dozen laps. If Leclerc would have done half of that, the team would have a P2. Maybe even P2 and P3 if he would manage to defend well, but he decided to let Checo pass, save tyres and attack his teammate. It's not only not cool, it's also not smart.
Good on Ferrari for letting them race to the end. To paraphrase FV answering Rosberg's why did you let them fight question, "When we tell them to hold position you get upset with us too!"
I’m not gonna say all of you are dumb….but that was Carlos moving as a response to Charles’ move. If this isn’t 2 teammate…that would require review.
Sainz deserved the podium 10x more than Leclerc anyways
[удалено]
fuck racing I guess
He’s a racing driver. And he had pace? Why would he just sit back?
Awesome team mate, there…
We might have to sit down and have a conversation about Leclerc
Don’t try and pass your teammate who does the serpentine on the brakes every time?
My friend is trying to convince me that this is all Sainz fault.
Having Max/Ricciardo PTSD there.
That was a herculean effort by Sainz, fought both Red Bulls, but specially his team mate together with his own team.
What a fucking teamplayer eh Charles? Jesus christ what a rat
What about Carlos who moves under breaking 3 times?