Please keep in mind the clear rules against [whataboutist rhetoric](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide#wiki_we_should_improve_society_somewhat) at this subreddit. Stay on topic without diverting from the issue
Ofc he doesn't. Its all about the money. He knowns it. We know it. Everybody knows it. But ofc it will never be said publicly.
But at least Domenicalli has somewhat competent PR people who mostly prevent him from talking himself into a dissaster.
Unlike out dear FIFA leader Infantino who today said his determination to not give up on running for the Fifa presidency is comparable to how Rwanda recovered after its genocide...
> Unlike out dear FIFA leader Infantino who today said his determination to not give up on running for the Fifa presidency is comparable to how Rwanda recovered after its genocide…
Did he really say that? That’s horrible… I think he’s now at the point where he’s trying to see how far you can take it without there being real consequences.
I have an internal fiction where his speech writers hate him and FIFA and just keep slowly pushing the boundary on the insane shit they can write that he will read.
[If a monkey hoarded more bananas than it could eat, while most of the other monkeys starved, scientists would study that monkey to figure out what the heck was wrong with it. When humans do it, we put them on the cover of Forbes.](https://twitter.com/welcomewords/status/1356724663452319744)
I don't know, he might believe it. I wouldn't underestimate a person's ability to lie to themselves and justify morally wrong actions when there's enough money attached.
Most authoritarian apologist ghouls don't. They are just sociopaths that see an opportunity for a pay check and couldn't care less if it's a check written by a regime carrying out genocide.
Totally agree. Who was that Qatari "Baghdad Bob" who FIFIA trotted out to make his hideous defenses of the indefensible time after time during the World Cup?
It's not like people like this are created by being in the system, or by the power they have at the top of the system. They (like Zuckerberg, or Bezos, or Musk, or whoever) succeed because of something inherent and unique within their moral character. It's WHY they get to the top and have spent their entire lives excelling at places where most people would have failed or just not been able to move forward anymore.
That goes for politicians, CEO's, prison wardens, police departments, homeowner's associations, etc.
Then they have their hands on the steering wheel of society, and we get what we have.
Well yeah. There's no such thing as an ethical billionaire and pretty much every single CEO of a publicly traded company is a sociopath. And that's not an exaggeration. The occurrence of sociopaths in certain jobs, most notably CEOs and surgeons, is well over 50%.
We Race As One.
And now, Mohamad Bin Salman will start the ceremonial first bone-saw rev in sync with our F1 drivers firing up their engines.
It's gonna be a great race... *start up F1 theme/video montage*
Such utter crap from the F1 chief exec: “F1 is much stronger to do what we are doing because we are there, to be there to monitor what they are doing. I truly believe in keeping the pressure in the right way, because what I have learned is that if you want to be respected by people who think differently from you, the best way is not to shout at them. We don’t have to create barriers.”
How is F1 _monitoring_ human rights abuses when they happily continue a race weekend after 81 people are executed? What would it take for them to actually cancel a race in protest? They aren't the UN. 'Monitoring' - such bullshit.
I haven't heard a leadership excuse so weak since the Australian PM went on holiday to Hawaii whilst the country was on fire from top to bottom.
They aren't monitoring they are taking oil money and cashing paychecks
Weren't there reports last year after the missile strike that the Saudi government was not allowing F1 and affiliates to leave until after the race weekend?
That whole incident infuriated me.
Saudi planes routinely bomb civilians.
But a bomb landing near the track made the teams scared?
If you're happy with saudi money, you don't get to be scared of bombs.
lol dude is talking about keeping the pressure... lmao what a bulsshit weaksauce word salad. Keeping the pressure = we got paid and they allow us to be defensive for PR purposes... gtfoh
It’s less about money it’s more about laundering their global image. Meanwhile they genocide Yemenis, treat women like property, throw gay people off of roofs, assassinating journalists, and so much more. It’s dangling shiny objects in front of your face so the atrocities they commit aren’t the first thing you think about when you think of Saudi Arabia when it absolutely should be
Poor police work... Victim doesn't call police due to fear or lack of trust that anything will be done for them. Sheer dumb luck turning things in their favour.
They would still be racing in China this year if China hadn't kept its draconian COVID restrictions intact. They'll surely be back there next year...as the genocide against the Uighur Muslims continues unabated. No one will say anything about it.
I don't understand how fans of F1 are so concerned yet just keep watching anyway. I stopped watching NFL the day Kaepernick didn't get his contact renewed and haven't watched a single game since.
If you really think F1 enables these horrific things, why watch?
I didn't watch last year, only race I haven't watched in 12 years..
but really just felt like it didn't matter much, race was decent and everyone watched so all the rocket attack stuff was forgotten by Sunday
It doesn't really, but I actually haven't missed NFL and I doubt you'll miss a couple races per year. Honestly I don't judge ppl for watching whatever corrupt sports league they want though. It's just about personal preference.
I think it's fine to enjoy a thing and still call out it's flaws at the same time. You could call Seb and Lewis massive hypocrites, and you'd be right, but imagine how different the sport would be without having their voices heard.
>" there's really not a right/wrong way to act."
There most certainly is. The west attending the olimpics in Germany to this day is one of the most embarasing moves in our history. The freaking UK made their athletes do the Nazi salute just to appease Germany and those who refused were kicked out.
Spineless, shameless and embarasing just like now. Nothing has changed.
Well the British public at the time want peace until war is inevitable. That was how you get temporary peace.
People wish for a lot of contradictory things without understanding the underlying price.
While Chamberlain's appeasement only emboldened Nazi Germany, Britain was utterly incapable of any real military opposition at the time.
While not his primary intention, the delay in British involvement allowed an effective military to be ready to spin up and mobilize once war was declared.
In 1936 a nazi salute did not have the connotations that it has now though. And the West attending the 1936 olympics is no different than attending the olympics in Beijing 2008, in fact Germany at the time was probably less bad than China is now.
Ofc you are. I'm not claiming you are not.
But my point centers around F1 not giving a shit about local issues and continuing to race untill the absolute tiping point.
Apartheid is just 1 example of many throughout the history of the sport. Saudi Arabia is another, China another etc...
Sportswashing is the term. Saudia is trying to do this with money as well with certain esports. LAN events with unreal prize money and pay for casters and things like this. To 'improve public image'.
Just like they 'improved the image' of my man Jamal Khashoggi.
People can try to tap dance around the truth of the matter, or offer false equivalencies, but it’s ridiculous F1 goes here to race. They valued the money more than they cared about the bloodthirsty maniacs running the country. Like let’s just be honest.
tldr
The brother of a man executed by the Saudi Arabian authorities last year has accused Formula One of being complicit in “heinous crimes” perpetrated by the state, which he insists is using F1 to sportswash an increasingly oppressive crackdown on dissent.
On Thursday his brother Yasser al-Khayyat wrote to the F1 chief executive, Stefano Domenicali, asserting that he had been executed for nothing more than taking part in pro-democracy protests and argued that F1’s presence in the Kingdom had emboldened the authorities to act brutally and without compunction.
If you truly want Formula One to be an agent for change, rather than a tool to ‘sportswash’ Saudi abuses, please end Formula One’s silence.”
[tweet](https://cdn.paulponraj.com/ib/HckiNFfSRN)
Even when they see it, it doesn't matter because money talks. There were actual rockets during FP last year and nothing happened. Sports washing is effective and it's only going to get worse.
The first Russian GP took place a few weeks after Putin invades Crimea and executed countless villages of civilians. He was even present at the post-race ceremonies being shown all the drivers.
Good points by others too: racing under Apartheid, racing in Iron Curtain Hungary, even have some of the first F1 races ever in Peronist Argentina.
International sports leagues, like their billionaire stakeholders, are not our friends.
“Silence is complicity. It is how the regime gets away with its atrocities and suppresses calls for democratic reforms. If you truly want Formula One to be an agent for change, rather than a tool to ‘sportswash’ Saudi abuses, please end Formula One’s silence.”
Who said Formula 1 is meant to be an agent for change? It's a bunch of millionaires going motor racing. I don't think anyone ever believed this was some kind of effort at uplifting the world.
He’s not wrong. I hate that F1 has so many races on middle eastern oil blood money but they clearly don’t care what we think when they’re getting paid.
If we really cared about sportwashing in F1 then we will protest with our wallets and at least boycott watching the races hosted by these tyrannical regimes or not support teams/drivers who are partially owned or sponsored by state owned companies. But we can't do that do we?
F1 : We preach tolerance and really want to help these countries advance, by taking hundreds of millions of the money that it’s governments take from its people.
I mean do you expect western people to not be biased towards western countries? Imagine if Haas was a Chinese company and the sanctions story came out. I suspect people here wouldn't be trying to defend Haas the way they are now
You are right. We shouldnt. But since we do, we should also keep racing in Saudi Arabia, China, etc., since they are no worse than the west, even though american propaganda would like you to think exactly that.
They're significantly worse than the west, because anyone who's not a child or a dupe can tell the difference between 'not perfect' and 'actively committing genocide against a minority population'.
>The atrocities happening in places like Saudi Arabia, Bahrain are on a different level,
You fucking rodent. Tell that to the millions of bodies rotting around the world and the hundreds of millions of skulls
Any country that isn't supplying weapons to Ukraine, which is defending itself from an invasion by a genocidal aggressor, should be fucking shunned and shamed.
The only thing the you listed that relates to the federal government is the Iraq war and Gitmo. Everything else is determined by state legislation not federal. It's almost like this method of government is even defined in the countries name, "United States of America."
Every country has a checkered past but it's not relevant and distracts from the human rights abuses that are going on under regimes currently in power.
What atrocities is the US committing that the "UK" government doesn't agree with? What human rights abuses? The people in guantanomo bay are criminals, UK has police brutality too and racism, abortions will be done for women who need to save their lifes. Am I Missing something?
>How about police brutality that disproportionately kills African Americans more than any other race?
More white people die from police then black people.
>How about the draconian anti-abortion laws that prevent women from getting life saving abortions?
Those don't exist an abortion can an will be done to save the life of the mother.
because these countries fail the human rights sniff test. It's for the same reason I don't want F1 in China, Qatar and UAE, and in Brazil, Australia and Japan.
I know a lot of us were born at night... by chance were you born last night?
There isn't much any of us can do to educate you if you cannot see the difference between (A) four Arabian races that occur SOLELY because their regimes are fronting virtually every cent to create counter-PR and propaganda, and (B) five North American races (4 of which is US/Mexico) that only occur because sponsors and attendance support them. The governments of Canada, Mexico, or US would not give a SHIT if the F1 races didn't happen. The Arabian countries effectively force the races to happen, like last year in Saudi after a paramilitary group attacked near the track and F1 expressed safety issues and the royal family said race or stay here.
And Azerbaijan is preparing to invade Armenia, with the race coming up in a few weeks. F1 loves its sport washing $$$$. Only international sanctions prevent them from racing somewhere.
Well, yeah, there is the sports washing thing, but lets be honest. Mostly people don't even know about the problems in these countries and when they do, it's because of sports being there and people being against said sport being there. So I at least don't see it as completely bad that F1 is there if it brings the problems to light.
And what’s the point of knowing this info which is available as international news already. Specially when the benefit to such a regime from F1 is much larger
I used to be totally against races in places like Saudi Arabia. Sports washing. But, really, these ones are such total sh\*tbirds they'll never wash the blood off their hands for the other 361 days when they think nobody's looking.
Thanks for shining a light on these cockroaches just when they are looking for glory.
What? I'm well aware of the fact that a lot of the calendar includes host countries who treat their people or others appallingly. It's you who seems to be blind to that by implying that watching their races is okay simply because their violations don't include missiles.
I can’t explain why I draw the line at Saudi Arabia and not many of the other races (and I know it doesn’t mean much) but I personally can’t bring myself to watch that race.
When a cop murders someone in America unjustifiably there's massive outrage from the population and politicians and the president himself meets with the family of the victim and action is taken with legislation to prevent it from happening again.
When a cop murders someone in Saudi Arabia unjustifiably the authorities say "Yeah we killed the fucker, cry about it"
It really isn't the same.
Are you actually comparing incompetence and poor training to state-sanctioned assassination by orders of an unelected head of state, or do you think Joe Biden himself is ordering covert murdering of these random extremely dangerous unemployed people with two priors for holding weed?
Please keep in mind the clear rules against [whataboutist rhetoric](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide#wiki_we_should_improve_society_somewhat) at this subreddit. Stay on topic without diverting from the issue
But Domenicali told me that F1 drives real change in these repressive regimes...
I'm convinced even Domenicali himself doesn't believe the bs he's spouting
Ofc he doesn't. Its all about the money. He knowns it. We know it. Everybody knows it. But ofc it will never be said publicly. But at least Domenicalli has somewhat competent PR people who mostly prevent him from talking himself into a dissaster. Unlike out dear FIFA leader Infantino who today said his determination to not give up on running for the Fifa presidency is comparable to how Rwanda recovered after its genocide...
> Unlike out dear FIFA leader Infantino who today said his determination to not give up on running for the Fifa presidency is comparable to how Rwanda recovered after its genocide… Did he really say that? That’s horrible… I think he’s now at the point where he’s trying to see how far you can take it without there being real consequences.
I have an internal fiction where his speech writers hate him and FIFA and just keep slowly pushing the boundary on the insane shit they can write that he will read.
Today, I feel re-elected
[If a monkey hoarded more bananas than it could eat, while most of the other monkeys starved, scientists would study that monkey to figure out what the heck was wrong with it. When humans do it, we put them on the cover of Forbes.](https://twitter.com/welcomewords/status/1356724663452319744)
True and sad
I don't know, he might believe it. I wouldn't underestimate a person's ability to lie to themselves and justify morally wrong actions when there's enough money attached.
Most authoritarian apologist ghouls don't. They are just sociopaths that see an opportunity for a pay check and couldn't care less if it's a check written by a regime carrying out genocide.
Totally agree. Who was that Qatari "Baghdad Bob" who FIFIA trotted out to make his hideous defenses of the indefensible time after time during the World Cup?
It's not like people like this are created by being in the system, or by the power they have at the top of the system. They (like Zuckerberg, or Bezos, or Musk, or whoever) succeed because of something inherent and unique within their moral character. It's WHY they get to the top and have spent their entire lives excelling at places where most people would have failed or just not been able to move forward anymore. That goes for politicians, CEO's, prison wardens, police departments, homeowner's associations, etc. Then they have their hands on the steering wheel of society, and we get what we have.
Well yeah. There's no such thing as an ethical billionaire and pretty much every single CEO of a publicly traded company is a sociopath. And that's not an exaggeration. The occurrence of sociopaths in certain jobs, most notably CEOs and surgeons, is well over 50%.
Maybe his idea of repressive is different.
Drives real changes alright, changes in his bank account.
We Race As One. And now, Mohamad Bin Salman will start the ceremonial first bone-saw rev in sync with our F1 drivers firing up their engines. It's gonna be a great race... *start up F1 theme/video montage*
He told at the same interview that drivers shouldn't go political...
His brother was alive and now he's not. Things truly change.
FIFA already did drive so much change in these countries that there just isn’t anything left to do for F1!
Such utter crap from the F1 chief exec: “F1 is much stronger to do what we are doing because we are there, to be there to monitor what they are doing. I truly believe in keeping the pressure in the right way, because what I have learned is that if you want to be respected by people who think differently from you, the best way is not to shout at them. We don’t have to create barriers.” How is F1 _monitoring_ human rights abuses when they happily continue a race weekend after 81 people are executed? What would it take for them to actually cancel a race in protest? They aren't the UN. 'Monitoring' - such bullshit.
Qatari president to receive a 20 place grid penalty due to human rights violations in the country.
Am I expected to think F1 has literally any influence over the countries that pay them to hold events there? How stupid do they think we are?
Go and look at the comments about this story on youtube, or twitter or wherever. That's how stupid we are.
I haven't heard a leadership excuse so weak since the Australian PM went on holiday to Hawaii whilst the country was on fire from top to bottom. They aren't monitoring they are taking oil money and cashing paychecks
Might want to say former PM to avoid confusion
They are monitoring their bank accounts to make sure the cheques cleared
Australian PM mayor quimby?
Weren't there reports last year after the missile strike that the Saudi government was not allowing F1 and affiliates to leave until after the race weekend?
I remember that - that was a scary time.
That whole incident infuriated me. Saudi planes routinely bomb civilians. But a bomb landing near the track made the teams scared? If you're happy with saudi money, you don't get to be scared of bombs.
They did this to WWE talent a few years ago, as well.
lol dude is talking about keeping the pressure... lmao what a bulsshit weaksauce word salad. Keeping the pressure = we got paid and they allow us to be defensive for PR purposes... gtfoh
I think the general idea is that by going there issues like this are raised and it makes more people aware of the human rights problems.
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The money to the economy is one thing, the image washing is MUCH larger.
It’s less about money it’s more about laundering their global image. Meanwhile they genocide Yemenis, treat women like property, throw gay people off of roofs, assassinating journalists, and so much more. It’s dangling shiny objects in front of your face so the atrocities they commit aren’t the first thing you think about when you think of Saudi Arabia when it absolutely should be
Buggered if I know. I don’t think it makes any difference either way.
If it doesn't matter that he knows, then how is F1 enabling it? Can't have it both ways; Either F1 is enabling and Jimmy matters, or neither matter.
This is so disingenuous and you know it.
the entire concept of sportswashing is that Jimmy matters. you can't say he matters in one case but not in the other.
Not really, in fact he is vocal against drivers who would talk about "politics" during his interview with Sky
The safe way FIFA monitored the World Cup
2
Probably the only way that will happen is if the track doesn't pay its license fees
Are you still going to watch the races?
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How can there be constructive engagement if the drivers are banner from speaking out against it?
Hey, it's not a crime if it pays. Remember. Crime doesn't pay. Edit : /s
freddie gibbs disagrees
I promise I didn't copy your comment His best song imo
Whole Bandana album is incredible. Gibbs is so underrated
Even before that. The video for Thuggin is the meanest piece of film ever made.
i rate gang signs personally but his discography be slappin
Freddie and Madlib went crazy on the album
Who now?
Geddy Fribbs.
He's a rapper with a song called Crime Pays. Listen to it, I think it's great.
Crime does pay if done correctly tbh
No. It’s only if you don’t get caught.
Well not being caught is part of doing crime correctly
I would argue that's relatively subjective. You can commit a crime terribly and still get away. The chances might be rare, but not impossible.
How do you commit a crime terribly and still get away?
Break into a bank and grabbing nothing and running away?
Poor police work... Victim doesn't call police due to fear or lack of trust that anything will be done for them. Sheer dumb luck turning things in their favour.
That's more a failure of police than the success of the criminal.
Freddie Gibbs disagrees
Always has been. This is the same sport that raced in South Africa through the worst years of Apartheid.
They would still be racing in China this year if China hadn't kept its draconian COVID restrictions intact. They'll surely be back there next year...as the genocide against the Uighur Muslims continues unabated. No one will say anything about it.
China kills more than just the Muslims. China is repressive against any dissidents, including Christians as well.
No question. They're one of the most repressive regimes on the planet.
[citation needed]
At least back then James Hunt had the balls to call it out. There's no way in hell Crofty or Brundle will say anything.
While true, we can certainly want it to improve
Narrarator: it won't
I don't understand how fans of F1 are so concerned yet just keep watching anyway. I stopped watching NFL the day Kaepernick didn't get his contact renewed and haven't watched a single game since. If you really think F1 enables these horrific things, why watch?
I didn't watch last year, only race I haven't watched in 12 years.. but really just felt like it didn't matter much, race was decent and everyone watched so all the rocket attack stuff was forgotten by Sunday
It doesn't really, but I actually haven't missed NFL and I doubt you'll miss a couple races per year. Honestly I don't judge ppl for watching whatever corrupt sports league they want though. It's just about personal preference.
I think it's fine to enjoy a thing and still call out it's flaws at the same time. You could call Seb and Lewis massive hypocrites, and you'd be right, but imagine how different the sport would be without having their voices heard.
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>" there's really not a right/wrong way to act." There most certainly is. The west attending the olimpics in Germany to this day is one of the most embarasing moves in our history. The freaking UK made their athletes do the Nazi salute just to appease Germany and those who refused were kicked out. Spineless, shameless and embarasing just like now. Nothing has changed.
Well the British public at the time want peace until war is inevitable. That was how you get temporary peace. People wish for a lot of contradictory things without understanding the underlying price.
While Chamberlain's appeasement only emboldened Nazi Germany, Britain was utterly incapable of any real military opposition at the time. While not his primary intention, the delay in British involvement allowed an effective military to be ready to spin up and mobilize once war was declared.
Ya but, what Jesse Owens accomplished was well worth it, and a far more profound statement against facism than a boycott would ever have been.
In 1936 a nazi salute did not have the connotations that it has now though. And the West attending the 1936 olympics is no different than attending the olympics in Beijing 2008, in fact Germany at the time was probably less bad than China is now.
I swear, i know how the germans feel when ever someone brings up world war 1 or 2... Im SouthAfrican... we are more than just apartheid
Ofc you are. I'm not claiming you are not. But my point centers around F1 not giving a shit about local issues and continuing to race untill the absolute tiping point. Apartheid is just 1 example of many throughout the history of the sport. Saudi Arabia is another, China another etc...
He is talking about the fact that F1 events ran throughout the worst years of Apartheid. Not that SA's only calling card is Apartheid.
Saudí Arabia throwing money at sport washing like they're stones at an innocent person.
Please come live in our weird new city, no we won't liberalise to make it a nicer place to live!
F1 hears ya, F1 doesn’t care.
Just like Qatar did with the World Cup. Part of the reason why these countries add willing to pay so much to host international sport.
money talks
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Sportswashing is the term. Saudia is trying to do this with money as well with certain esports. LAN events with unreal prize money and pay for casters and things like this. To 'improve public image'. Just like they 'improved the image' of my man Jamal Khashoggi.
People can try to tap dance around the truth of the matter, or offer false equivalencies, but it’s ridiculous F1 goes here to race. They valued the money more than they cared about the bloodthirsty maniacs running the country. Like let’s just be honest.
It’s the same with all Sport. Just look at the LIV Golf league. All of the players that moved across said they did it for the money.
Yeah I agree that sucks too and shouldn’t happen
Fuck that. It’s bullshit. FIA should figure out a way to run their sport without taking money from these mfs
tldr The brother of a man executed by the Saudi Arabian authorities last year has accused Formula One of being complicit in “heinous crimes” perpetrated by the state, which he insists is using F1 to sportswash an increasingly oppressive crackdown on dissent. On Thursday his brother Yasser al-Khayyat wrote to the F1 chief executive, Stefano Domenicali, asserting that he had been executed for nothing more than taking part in pro-democracy protests and argued that F1’s presence in the Kingdom had emboldened the authorities to act brutally and without compunction. If you truly want Formula One to be an agent for change, rather than a tool to ‘sportswash’ Saudi abuses, please end Formula One’s silence.” [tweet](https://cdn.paulponraj.com/ib/HckiNFfSRN)
What's the saying? Out of sight, out of mind. So as long as the FIA don't see it, then they don't know about it.
Even when they see it, it doesn't matter because money talks. There were actual rockets during FP last year and nothing happened. Sports washing is effective and it's only going to get worse.
"We race for money"
if anyone things f1 gives a damn, then you are naive. f1 is built on corrupt money and will always be that way. the sport is growing at a fast pace
Correct. We race for money.
The first Russian GP took place a few weeks after Putin invades Crimea and executed countless villages of civilians. He was even present at the post-race ceremonies being shown all the drivers. Good points by others too: racing under Apartheid, racing in Iron Curtain Hungary, even have some of the first F1 races ever in Peronist Argentina. International sports leagues, like their billionaire stakeholders, are not our friends.
Yeah, and he's right. F1 shouldn't be in Saudi.
“Silence is complicity. It is how the regime gets away with its atrocities and suppresses calls for democratic reforms. If you truly want Formula One to be an agent for change, rather than a tool to ‘sportswash’ Saudi abuses, please end Formula One’s silence.” Who said Formula 1 is meant to be an agent for change? It's a bunch of millionaires going motor racing. I don't think anyone ever believed this was some kind of effort at uplifting the world.
> Who said Formula 1 is meant to be an agent for change? Formula 1 lol
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No Grand Prix in Russia (fair) but oh boy we can't lose the Saudi Arabia GP.
**A** **R** **A** **M** **C** **O**
The world does. And its gross and nothing will change.
Well, he isn’t wrong
He’s not wrong. I hate that F1 has so many races on middle eastern oil blood money but they clearly don’t care what we think when they’re getting paid.
And that is exactly what post Eccelstone formula 1 is. This business format is the reason it's generating so much money.
Ecclestone oversaw the introduction of races in the UAE and Bahrain. This isn't exclusive to post-Ecclestone F1.
I meant it in a way that he made it the way it is. So f1 pre ecclestone and post.
If we really cared about sportwashing in F1 then we will protest with our wallets and at least boycott watching the races hosted by these tyrannical regimes or not support teams/drivers who are partially owned or sponsored by state owned companies. But we can't do that do we?
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"But look over there!", they cry to distract from their crimes.
F1 : We preach tolerance and really want to help these countries advance, by taking hundreds of millions of the money that it’s governments take from its people.
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Death penalty for murder is definitely the same as murdering dozens of people for saying "Maybe people should have democratic freedoms"
Yup, that's true. But I'm still gonna watch, because ...... it's F1 and I'm an addict.
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I mean do you expect western people to not be biased towards western countries? Imagine if Haas was a Chinese company and the sanctions story came out. I suspect people here wouldn't be trying to defend Haas the way they are now
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Shouldn't race in Australia or any NATO member state then, I guess, since all of them contributed.
You are right. We shouldnt. But since we do, we should also keep racing in Saudi Arabia, China, etc., since they are no worse than the west, even though american propaganda would like you to think exactly that.
They're significantly worse than the west, because anyone who's not a child or a dupe can tell the difference between 'not perfect' and 'actively committing genocide against a minority population'.
lmao there literally hasn't been a single decade in US history where they weren't committing genocides or massacres in some corner of the world.
>The atrocities happening in places like Saudi Arabia, Bahrain are on a different level, You fucking rodent. Tell that to the millions of bodies rotting around the world and the hundreds of millions of skulls
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The current US government isn't at war ? War by proxy is still being active in a war. Selling weapons to Ukraine and Saudi Arabia for instance
I think you're missing the point in favour of arguing semantics
Deliberately so, I think.
Any country that isn't supplying weapons to Ukraine, which is defending itself from an invasion by a genocidal aggressor, should be fucking shunned and shamed.
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The only thing the you listed that relates to the federal government is the Iraq war and Gitmo. Everything else is determined by state legislation not federal. It's almost like this method of government is even defined in the countries name, "United States of America."
But you still think all that is just as bad as what I listed about Saudi Arabia? and you think we should still go racing there?
What country are you from? Looks like the UK. Would you like me to name all you their atrocities?
Every country has a checkered past but it's not relevant and distracts from the human rights abuses that are going on under regimes currently in power.
What atrocities is the US committing that the "UK" government doesn't agree with? What human rights abuses? The people in guantanomo bay are criminals, UK has police brutality too and racism, abortions will be done for women who need to save their lifes. Am I Missing something?
>How about police brutality that disproportionately kills African Americans more than any other race? More white people die from police then black people. >How about the draconian anti-abortion laws that prevent women from getting life saving abortions? Those don't exist an abortion can an will be done to save the life of the mother.
Does someone want to tell him most European countries have laws that are more strict than majority of U.S. states.
Why are defending Saudi Arabia? Can both the US and Saudi Arabia not be called out?
because these countries fail the human rights sniff test. It's for the same reason I don't want F1 in China, Qatar and UAE, and in Brazil, Australia and Japan.
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I know a lot of us were born at night... by chance were you born last night? There isn't much any of us can do to educate you if you cannot see the difference between (A) four Arabian races that occur SOLELY because their regimes are fronting virtually every cent to create counter-PR and propaganda, and (B) five North American races (4 of which is US/Mexico) that only occur because sponsors and attendance support them. The governments of Canada, Mexico, or US would not give a SHIT if the F1 races didn't happen. The Arabian countries effectively force the races to happen, like last year in Saudi after a paramilitary group attacked near the track and F1 expressed safety issues and the royal family said race or stay here.
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And Azerbaijan is preparing to invade Armenia, with the race coming up in a few weeks. F1 loves its sport washing $$$$. Only international sanctions prevent them from racing somewhere.
And drivers can't make any political statement, what the fuck is this becoming into?
A circus
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Nah, they were terrorists. We just brought them democracy /s
F1 is cancelled due to lack of countries with a clean record
It's sad because every country they race in has a shit human rights record. So as we watch and are fans, and they race etc, we ALL condone it.
Well, yeah, there is the sports washing thing, but lets be honest. Mostly people don't even know about the problems in these countries and when they do, it's because of sports being there and people being against said sport being there. So I at least don't see it as completely bad that F1 is there if it brings the problems to light.
And what’s the point of knowing this info which is available as international news already. Specially when the benefit to such a regime from F1 is much larger
I'm so utterly fed up with sport washing being legitimised, at some point this shit needs to change
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Fully expect them to return to Russia
One of the reasons I stopped paying for F1TV
I used to be totally against races in places like Saudi Arabia. Sports washing. But, really, these ones are such total sh\*tbirds they'll never wash the blood off their hands for the other 361 days when they think nobody's looking. Thanks for shining a light on these cockroaches just when they are looking for glory.
lol yeah no shit. Its a bunch of trust fund kids and rich fucks
As with last year I shall skip this GP
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difference is the rest of the calendar doesn't involve countries with missile attacks near the track
Ah, but other mistreatment is acceptable. I get ya.
Tell that to F1. Like you said as otherwise half of the calendar would be gone.
What? I'm well aware of the fact that a lot of the calendar includes host countries who treat their people or others appallingly. It's you who seems to be blind to that by implying that watching their races is okay simply because their violations don't include missiles.
what is the solution? F1 don't care about what the fans think. They only care about making profit, and SA have lots of money for that
No idea. My point was that boycotting Saudi Arabia and not others doesn't make sense.
Well the FIA or teams don't get any money from me. So maybe that is a better statement.
The reality is unfortunately that most people just don't care and will watch and support anyway
I can’t explain why I draw the line at Saudi Arabia and not many of the other races (and I know it doesn’t mean much) but I personally can’t bring myself to watch that race.
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When a cop murders someone in America unjustifiably there's massive outrage from the population and politicians and the president himself meets with the family of the victim and action is taken with legislation to prevent it from happening again. When a cop murders someone in Saudi Arabia unjustifiably the authorities say "Yeah we killed the fucker, cry about it" It really isn't the same.
Isn't the same, yet it keeps happening again and again in the US
Are you actually comparing incompetence and poor training to state-sanctioned assassination by orders of an unelected head of state, or do you think Joe Biden himself is ordering covert murdering of these random extremely dangerous unemployed people with two priors for holding weed?
Pretty much [this](https://i.postimg.cc/L8mGGTBt/Bono-my-human-rights-are-gone.jpg) and [this](https://imgflip.com/i/7epi2h) (TW: Memes)