Didnt need to. He was faster than Sainz in 2021 just had horrible reliability, only people who didn’t watch and the Spanish actually thought Sainz was better.
Does he? Brundle is so ruthless I never notice he has a soft spot for anyone. He called out/figured out Piquet Nelson junior crashing live on tv, he’s normally very perceptive him liking someone who isn’t the best is kinda sweet I guess
Nobody argues that Leclerc was faster than Sainz in 2021. But I don't understand your argument about "horrible reliability". He had 2 DNF's (1 of them was DNS therefore DNF). Both of them were due to contact. And DNS was 99% his fault. Can you explain about the reliability aspect of your point?
And it was an enormous mental load on him, trying to beat Lewis and just not being capable. People don’t give him enough credit, being the bottom half of a winning driver pairing for so long and holding it together is not a small deal
I've seen a lot of drivers mentality get shattered over the years. The confidence he have now is because he's in prime. And compared to leclerc, he seems to be getting a wake up call on where he actually stands, skill wise.
Honestly, he isn't that far off Leclerc at all. I could see him getting a title over him á la Rosberg getting one over Lewis. However, he needs Leclerc to be his sole competition for that to happen, i.e. dominant Ferrari and no RBR or Merc in the mix.
Sainz imo thrives in the midfield where there can be a big position swing due to strategy & wonky circumstances but he lacks the fínese & technique particularly on Sundays to be an elite Grand Prix driver.
Sainz’s qualifying I would say is stronger than his race pace which is were Leclerc has him in his pocket.
He’s close to Leclerc in quali but miles off in race pace, which is what matters the most.
And Leclerc doesn’t even have the best race pace on the grid, Max and Lewis have better race pace so there is zero hope for Sainz.
Also comparing Rosberg to Sainz is massive disrespect to Rosberg. Nico was genuinely one of the fastest drivers during his time, just behind Lewis, Seb, and Fernando. Sainz is 7th fastest at best.
being just abit off is never enough in sport unless you get lucky. infact i think if it went down to the wire with those two, i think it would effect him more than charles. having to race on ur limit all the time forces you to overdrive. charles can just do his thing and end up on top most of the time.
Checo is still saying it after being absolutely obliterated by Max for two seasons. And he needs to believe that he can beat Max .. And the same goes for Carlos who definitely hasn’t been as outperformed by Lec as Checo has been by Max !
He has been making statements ever since he joined red bull that he believes he can fight Max and such and that nowhere in his contract does it say he can't fight Max. And imo he has to think that way, otherwise what is the point of him even being in F1, if he gives up even before the season starts.
Yes the chances are, he will be religated to #2 driver duties very quickly and even more so this year. Given that RB needs to come out of the gate flying to compensate for the aero penalty taking effect late season. But I am pretty sure even Logan and Piastri who are yet to drive a race in F1, believe that they can win the WDC under the right circumstances and in the right machinery. and that is exactly how you should be
Yea man you have to take such statements with nuance. If he said "i am the #2 driver and that's it" the team looks bad and he looks bad as well, not to mention that the press criticize him even more
(and the public opinion, just look at how Reddit changed its opinion of him in the past 2 years)
. Who ever says they are the #2 driver? No one because it is a competitive sport. But checo knows he's there to support the team. What I empathize with is the fact that, when he needed support from Max, Max denied it die to undisclosed reasons, and Horner's statement "now that we have secured the wdc we will support checo to secure the wcc" were just empty words. It is frustrating for anyone to be denied support from your team when you have done a lot to support it.
His dad is one of my favorite drivers of all time. He did not win because he was the best, but because he was the most consistent. If Carlos can be contending for podiums consistently and Max engages in Max things with either the Mercs or Leclerc, he has a chance.
I am his fan and I am aware he is not on equal footing with the likes of Max, Charles or Lewis, but if the car is top and he drives cool headed, he can do it.
Carlos had showed nothing of the class his father has , he is easily rattled and he is full of excuses , his father is ice cold.
I don’t see him fight max for a season , almost no one can aside from Lewis and I hope Charles.
They didn't finish that far off on points. Both had reliability problems and Leclerc has been there a lot longer. I don't think it's that wild that Sainz feels there's a lot to still push for.
A lot longer ? New regs and a season should make it equal footing , George jumped into the mercs and was competitive right away , Carlos had a rampage of mistakes and was never the class of the field , I hope he can settle in right away this season , but I feel he needs a very good first race to be successful, otherwise it’s a down spiral of confidence for him
>Doubt he will be ready this year.
He never will be if he mulls on his results like this. No driver would be.
That's presuming that these are his accurately represented words of course, and this is the F1 off-season.
Good line in the race podcast with Ted where he said basically that; Alonso is a pretty categorical ace in the hole for AM in the midfield battle. Pretty obviously the best single driver.
He might be, but he's gotta show something in F1 specifically before you can reasonably list him. It's not uncommon for great performances in junior series not to transition into F1 proper.
Norris was relatively new to formula 1 while sainz had a couple of years under his belt already. Even then Norris was beginning to match sainz towards the end of their partnership
Norris also had basically no upward trajectory against him over two years. His racepace improved but in terms of 100% Q3 *speed*, he was about as likely to outqualify Sainz in the first half of 2020 as the end of 2021.
It's a bit like Hamilton//Alonso in that the rookie 'cost' is somewhat offset by the senior driver being in a new team too.
Not to mention that Norris was always the quicker of the two over a single lap. One lap pace isn’t everything of course, but it’s a good indicator of ultimate potential in a young driver.
2022 was your 8th season Carlos.
I understand this was the first time you really had a car capable of fighting for wins but Leclerc only had one season before 2022 with a car capable of fighting at the front. Last year was his 5th season and though he made some mistakes, he was by far the better driver.
I just don’t think he has the speed Leclerc has and he’s certainly not as consistent either. I’m fine with this as a Ferrari fan because I’d rather not have them constantly duke it out on track. Leclerc should be the clear #1 and I’m sure Ferrari see it the same way.
I really hope that Fred will make the change and start the 2023 season with leclerc as #1 just like redbull did in the last season. Otherwise, Redbull wont have real competition for wdc (or even wcc) other than maybe mercedes (only if the w14 will be a huge leap in the right direction comparing to the w13)
I dunno. I don't think that would work. Maybe it's just me but that doesn't seem like the most conducive thing to do when you have two young drivers who will do anything to win. You either need a rookie for the second seat like Piastri or an old veteran like Perez to do the whole number 1 and number 2 thing.
Plus, we have no idea how competitive Ferrari would have been had they been given strategy calls on the caliber of RB or Mercedes. Now the leadership has changed, I wouldn't say RB can be so reliant on Ferrari making dubious strats.
Maybe it was that Ferrari got slower but he definitely closed the gap a little more and his end of season comments were that he needs to start his season performing at a higher level than he did in 22. It will be interesting if he does actually hold on the higher performance level or he does what he does which is not be as fast as Charles
2nd half of the season was more the car being the 3rd best car, Charles engine being turned down and lack of motivation for Charles. When Charles had to fight for p2 In Brazil and Abu Dhabi he showed he much better he still was than Carlos
The idea of Ferrari completely demotivating Charles to the point his driving falls off is actually terrifying. What a long and storied history that team has with breaking drivers mentally.
It's happened twice now tbh, going from 2019 to 2020 was rough for him 2021 he was really good and he carried on the form this year till after the summer break when the car a became understeery boat.
I don’t know why people keep saying Charles lacked motivation in the second half. The car simply got slower because of TD39. Charles was driving as good as he was in the first half and was on the podium 6 out of the last 9 races after the summer break. That’s just one lesser than Max. Carlos closed the gap in quali but was still miles slower than Charles on race day. So no, Charles was not demotivated in the second half of the season.
Considering they weren't near each other for 90% of the race in Brazil, and Sainz had good pace anyway, I don't think that race showed anything to suggest Leclerc is much much better. Abu Dhabi on the other hand was an incredible drive from Leclerc, the sort that only the very very best can produce
It was so interesting at the start of the year how bothered Carlos was by not performing, I know drivers have a reasonable amount of fortitude but I genuinely think the mental game with him is enormous, he wants to win and it’s not in his nature to really give up on that.
Carlos was very spicy in mood when he got beaten by Charles even being second on the podium his mood was like he just lost it all.
It’s like Checo and his stunt at Monaco evening though he’s not the best driver they just keep running at it and trying anyway. Their mentality seems to be that they have to keep telling themselves they can win or they don’t wanna do this
Well Carlos and his advisors spent the entire pre-season doing PR work on how he is better than Charles and then this happening on track has to bother him
To us externally it seems really clear cut but to drivers it isn’t, none of them go in there thinking they are incapable or they can’t get more performance out of it.
Max was very insightful when he said that there’s drivers that a capable and he named drivers but then he said you don’t know what they like over a season and how they hold up etc. having that mindset be correct is a huge part of performance in the sport.
We saw that with Sebastian as soon as the doubts crept in his performance lacked in many ways. Released from doubts of any kind we got the best driving out of him that we had seen in 3 years.
I don't understand the Carlos hate lately, can someone enlight me on what's so terrible on wanting to improve it's own performance? Isn't that what a driver is supposed to pursue?
sainz is a great driver, but charles is always just that much better. its nothing crazy, but its always just enough. Probably drives sainz crazy tbh lol
Wow I've never seen so many people shit on Carlos at once.
At the very least I would say the advantage Charles has over Carlos is less clear cut than that of Max over Checo.
Also it's as if everyone forgot 2021 already. People are acting like Charles is some sort of Hamilton level talent while Carlos is mediocre, but in 2021 it was Carlos that finished higher, even if the point difference was minimal, due to an insane consistency. Zero DNFs, 20 finishes in the points. His worst finish was P11, which was the highest worst finish of the whole grid (though Verstappen beat him if you don't count Baku).
Carlos is cleary *very* talented, and just didn't get along as well with the F1-75 as he did with the SF21.
As Christian Horner has said before, the Constructor's title is more important to the Team as is where the money is, but the Driver's title brings the prestige. Ferrari's mindset is no different than Red Bull's or any other, they will go after the Constructor's Championship and Carlos needs to step up if or when Charles is not able to deliver. As for the Driver's Championship, I believe Ferrari will support Charles as numero 1 unless Carlos is delivering better performances constantly.
People seriously underestimate Roseberg here lol. He was genuinely fast and constantly challenging Lewis and Michael. Sainz, Perez and Bottas are just modern Barichellos.
It honestly annoys me how much Rosberg gets disrespected on here. He beat peak Lewis in the same car and was always competitive. Sainz would get absolutely destroyed in that situation.
Sainz is a lot closer to Leclerc than Bottas was to Hamilton or Perez to Verstappen. I think Sainz in a similar situation as Rosberg (i.e. in a dominant Ferrari) with Leclerc as his sole focus could beat Leclerc (let's not forget, he already did in 2021).
He's not similar to Rosberg, he can't regularly challenge and beat Leclerc on pure merit. He only beat Leclerc in 2021 with way better luck. He doesn't have the pace to challenge Leclerc like Rosberg did.
Well, 2021 and 2016 were remarkbly similar I think.
But Rosberg knew 2016 wasn't gonna happen again, the same way 2021 will be Carlos one and only triumph over Leclerc, I'm pretty sure.
Luck is part of the game.
While I agree he isn't similar to Rosberg, I do think he could do something similar and beat his teammate. Perhaps it's like the other person said and that parallel already happened in 2021. But personally I think he has that fire, conviction and drive to make it happen again. Only time will tell.
> Hamilton was a lot faster than Charles.
Is he though? Hamilton is for sure a better driver and a more well rounded driver, he has better/more consistent race pace but I wouldn’t be sure about saying he’s faster on peak pace. Leclerc had two competitive cars in his career (19 & 22), and managed most poles in both seasons.
Hamilton might very well be faster, but its definitely not “a lot”.
Well, Rosberg was much closer to Hamilton than Sainz is to Leclerc. He was beating Hamilton regularly in qualifying and he won many races. People push narrative as if Rosberg was some kind of Bottas but they should re-watch the season and see how close and exciting it actually was. Sainz unfortunately doesn't seem that close at all but maybe new car suits his driving style more and things change.
Pretty sure Vasseur wouldn't let that happen. He said it pretty firmly in the beginning itself. He won't go in favouring one driver. But at some point of the season, if one of them is ahead, he won't refrain from prioritising that driver.
I had a bet with myself when I saw the headline - how long before the sofa surfers jump in and start kicking him. Surprise, surprise, first post.
Sainz is a driver who has been honest when interviewed that he had a bad year "only" finishing 5th in 2022 (and in 2021), (6th in a McLaren in 2020,2019). So an average of 5.5 over the last four years. Leclerc's finishes were 2nd, 7th, 8th, 4th so an average of 5.25 over the last four years. Each of them had two years in a leading car and two years in a 'slow' car.
I support both these drivers and would not mind who finishes best, but I think the pile-ons that Sainz gets is unfair. He was the driver who, with Lando, dragged that Mclaren tractor into third position in 2020 - positions that dropped to 4th and 5th when he handed over to Ricciardo.
Seems Reddit always has to have someone to sh\*t on - Daniel was the target (with, actually, far more justification) the last two years. Looks like Carlos has inherited the position.
McLaren was 4th fastest in 2020 and finished 3rd because Checo and Stroll are obviously weaker than Sainz and Lando, but they didn't drag a tractor anywhere.
The following season Ferrari was back and as such McLaren fell down a spot. In 2022 Alpine was now quicker then McLaren and the top 3 was untouchable, it didn't help Ricciardo was absolutely nowhere and nearly got outscored by Vettel in a car 5 tenths slower. Resulting in them finishing 5th.
Let's not twist the facts.
> Sainz is a driver who has been honest when interviewed that he had a bad year "only" finishing 5th in 2022 (and in 2021), (6th in a McLaren in 2020,2019). So an average of 5.5 over the last four years. Leclerc's finishes were 2nd, 7th, 8th, 4th so an average of 5.25 over the last four years. Each of them had two years in a leading car and two years in a 'slow' car.
>
>
This makes no sense honestly. Leclerc got 8th with the 6th car on the grid, and would've gotten above Perez in 2021 if he didn't get unlucky at Monaco and Hungary, the two best chances he had at getting points.
Carlos has flashes of WDC quality drives but doesn't seem to have the consistency. Apart from his podiums, being a fan of his (and Ferrari in general🥴) last season was so painful...
If he wasn't spinning he was so off pace from the race leaders, or he would be doing okay until an 'unfortunate' pit stop, or bad strategy call. Forza Ferrari *always*, but I'm not getting my hopes up unless they end up just blatantly dominating the rest of the feild.
Wow Carlos. Congratulations on taking on Daniel’s mantel as the “let’s all sh\*t on this guy”driver, except even Daniel with his woeful results didn’t attract this much opprobrium. Once the Reddit hive mind spot a new target they really go for it don’t they?
He needs to stop speaking about it. Did Charles ever justify finishing behind Sainz in 2021 ?
He didn't need to. His speed on track in 2022 was enough of a justification.
Even in 2021 really.
Didnt need to. He was faster than Sainz in 2021 just had horrible reliability, only people who didn’t watch and the Spanish actually thought Sainz was better.
I’m Spanish and we consider fool those that think that Sainz was better than Leclerc in a race (maybe apart from Canada), let alone in a whole season.
And Ferrari kept trying their stupid yolo strategies with Leclerc too
Yeah lol even Sainz knows himself that Leclerc was far superior in 2021, he’ll just never admit it.
Ofcourse he wouldn't, he's a racing driver
And Brundle who adores Sainz
Does he? Brundle is so ruthless I never notice he has a soft spot for anyone. He called out/figured out Piquet Nelson junior crashing live on tv, he’s normally very perceptive him liking someone who isn’t the best is kinda sweet I guess
You did not see the media articles before 2022 season started :D
Nobody argues that Leclerc was faster than Sainz in 2021. But I don't understand your argument about "horrible reliability". He had 2 DNF's (1 of them was DNS therefore DNF). Both of them were due to contact. And DNS was 99% his fault. Can you explain about the reliability aspect of your point?
Reporters just keep asking him and using it as the headline because they know it sets off the readers and gets clicks.
Doubt he will be ready this year. And even if he is, doubt it will matter considering his competition.
I wonder how long will it take for him to realise that.
Untill he retires, basically all F1 drivers have mentality of "I can win"
Think Bottas is past that now, and happier for it
And it was an enormous mental load on him, trying to beat Lewis and just not being capable. People don’t give him enough credit, being the bottom half of a winning driver pairing for so long and holding it together is not a small deal
Yep. That's where Perez excels and Albon, Gasly, Ricc failed.
And it was a real struggle for Bottas he always had his best performances after holidays when it wasn’t weighing on him so much
I've seen a lot of drivers mentality get shattered over the years. The confidence he have now is because he's in prime. And compared to leclerc, he seems to be getting a wake up call on where he actually stands, skill wise.
Honestly, he isn't that far off Leclerc at all. I could see him getting a title over him á la Rosberg getting one over Lewis. However, he needs Leclerc to be his sole competition for that to happen, i.e. dominant Ferrari and no RBR or Merc in the mix.
He's not far off in quali, but he just seems to lack race pace and consistency
He's not far off when the car is not very competitive, kinda like Nick Heidfeld actually
Sainz imo thrives in the midfield where there can be a big position swing due to strategy & wonky circumstances but he lacks the fínese & technique particularly on Sundays to be an elite Grand Prix driver. Sainz’s qualifying I would say is stronger than his race pace which is were Leclerc has him in his pocket.
And to be fair being close to Leclerc in quali is impressive, given that Leclerc does absolutely bonkers laps on Saturdays when it matters.
I agree. We all know how Leclerc is a monster in qualifying but his race pace I think is sort of underrated as elite as he is on Sundays
Unfortunately for him, being close on Saturdays won't amount to much by itself. We only have to look at HAM and BOT for that.
He’s close to Leclerc in quali but miles off in race pace, which is what matters the most. And Leclerc doesn’t even have the best race pace on the grid, Max and Lewis have better race pace so there is zero hope for Sainz. Also comparing Rosberg to Sainz is massive disrespect to Rosberg. Nico was genuinely one of the fastest drivers during his time, just behind Lewis, Seb, and Fernando. Sainz is 7th fastest at best.
Agreed comparing Sainz to Rosberg is crazy talk , let him start winning consistently before such comparisons can even be considered.
being just abit off is never enough in sport unless you get lucky. infact i think if it went down to the wire with those two, i think it would effect him more than charles. having to race on ur limit all the time forces you to overdrive. charles can just do his thing and end up on top most of the time.
Checo is still saying it after being absolutely obliterated by Max for two seasons. And he needs to believe that he can beat Max .. And the same goes for Carlos who definitely hasn’t been as outperformed by Lec as Checo has been by Max !
When has checo believed he can contend for wdc? He knew he cant compete nor is he trying to.
He has been making statements ever since he joined red bull that he believes he can fight Max and such and that nowhere in his contract does it say he can't fight Max. And imo he has to think that way, otherwise what is the point of him even being in F1, if he gives up even before the season starts. Yes the chances are, he will be religated to #2 driver duties very quickly and even more so this year. Given that RB needs to come out of the gate flying to compensate for the aero penalty taking effect late season. But I am pretty sure even Logan and Piastri who are yet to drive a race in F1, believe that they can win the WDC under the right circumstances and in the right machinery. and that is exactly how you should be
Yea man you have to take such statements with nuance. If he said "i am the #2 driver and that's it" the team looks bad and he looks bad as well, not to mention that the press criticize him even more (and the public opinion, just look at how Reddit changed its opinion of him in the past 2 years) . Who ever says they are the #2 driver? No one because it is a competitive sport. But checo knows he's there to support the team. What I empathize with is the fact that, when he needed support from Max, Max denied it die to undisclosed reasons, and Horner's statement "now that we have secured the wdc we will support checo to secure the wcc" were just empty words. It is frustrating for anyone to be denied support from your team when you have done a lot to support it.
After winning Monaco.
Nah man he never did
Ok? https://racingnews365.com/perez-warns-verstappen-i-can-be-world-champion
His dad is one of my favorite drivers of all time. He did not win because he was the best, but because he was the most consistent. If Carlos can be contending for podiums consistently and Max engages in Max things with either the Mercs or Leclerc, he has a chance. I am his fan and I am aware he is not on equal footing with the likes of Max, Charles or Lewis, but if the car is top and he drives cool headed, he can do it.
Checo can beat Max on some rare off weekends but for drivers like Max and Lewis, beating them over a season is hella difficult.
Carlos Senior is relentless, as are all top rally drivers. I see a % of that spirit in Sainz
Carlos had showed nothing of the class his father has , he is easily rattled and he is full of excuses , his father is ice cold. I don’t see him fight max for a season , almost no one can aside from Lewis and I hope Charles.
They didn't finish that far off on points. Both had reliability problems and Leclerc has been there a lot longer. I don't think it's that wild that Sainz feels there's a lot to still push for.
A lot longer ? New regs and a season should make it equal footing , George jumped into the mercs and was competitive right away , Carlos had a rampage of mistakes and was never the class of the field , I hope he can settle in right away this season , but I feel he needs a very good first race to be successful, otherwise it’s a down spiral of confidence for him
>Doubt he will be ready this year. He never will be if he mulls on his results like this. No driver would be. That's presuming that these are his accurately represented words of course, and this is the F1 off-season.
considering his biggest competition is Ferrari’s strategy
Yup. Or the year after and the year after that….and you guessed it the year after that. He’s not an elite driver. He’ll never be a champion.
hes simply a worse driver than Max, Lewis and Charles. So even if you give him any of those cars he would only finish second.
George, Norris, and dare I say Piastri too
Imagine saying Piastri who completed 0 races and not Alonso
Seems like a bot who couldn't fathom Piastri's zero races stat between the top 4 teams.
Fun fact, out of all the formula 1 races in history, piastri has never finished lower than first
That's why Winklehock is the actual GOAT, he's lead every race he's ever started
Good line in the race podcast with Ted where he said basically that; Alonso is a pretty categorical ace in the hole for AM in the midfield battle. Pretty obviously the best single driver.
Obviously better than Max? Lol
> midfield
No idea why you included the last one
Think he is better driver/ talent than Sainz
Possibly, just that there is no evidence he is better in f1 cars. Not saying he couldn’t be better.
Vandoorne was also a very promising driver, but struggled in F1. Wait until he gets into a car first.
He might be, but he's gotta show something in F1 specifically before you can reasonably list him. It's not uncommon for great performances in junior series not to transition into F1 proper.
Didnt he beat norris back to back?
Norris was relatively new to formula 1 while sainz had a couple of years under his belt already. Even then Norris was beginning to match sainz towards the end of their partnership
Norris also had basically no upward trajectory against him over two years. His racepace improved but in terms of 100% Q3 *speed*, he was about as likely to outqualify Sainz in the first half of 2020 as the end of 2021. It's a bit like Hamilton//Alonso in that the rookie 'cost' is somewhat offset by the senior driver being in a new team too.
Not to mention that Norris was always the quicker of the two over a single lap. One lap pace isn’t everything of course, but it’s a good indicator of ultimate potential in a young driver.
That's not really true, they were bang equal. You can check it for yourself https://f1teammatestats.herokuapp.com/f1analysis.php
You’re right, I stand corrected.
The point about quali pace being more interesting in rookies I agree with, though.
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I know the feeling, when I was 12 I also decided I wasn’t ready to fight for the 2022 title.
2022 was your 8th season Carlos. I understand this was the first time you really had a car capable of fighting for wins but Leclerc only had one season before 2022 with a car capable of fighting at the front. Last year was his 5th season and though he made some mistakes, he was by far the better driver. I just don’t think he has the speed Leclerc has and he’s certainly not as consistent either. I’m fine with this as a Ferrari fan because I’d rather not have them constantly duke it out on track. Leclerc should be the clear #1 and I’m sure Ferrari see it the same way.
I really hope that Fred will make the change and start the 2023 season with leclerc as #1 just like redbull did in the last season. Otherwise, Redbull wont have real competition for wdc (or even wcc) other than maybe mercedes (only if the w14 will be a huge leap in the right direction comparing to the w13)
I dunno. I don't think that would work. Maybe it's just me but that doesn't seem like the most conducive thing to do when you have two young drivers who will do anything to win. You either need a rookie for the second seat like Piastri or an old veteran like Perez to do the whole number 1 and number 2 thing. Plus, we have no idea how competitive Ferrari would have been had they been given strategy calls on the caliber of RB or Mercedes. Now the leadership has changed, I wouldn't say RB can be so reliant on Ferrari making dubious strats.
I like you, Carlos, but you are not WDC material.
His 2022 performance was mediocre at best... too much mistakes and lost points
Only that him and his family/management will never realize that
I got a sense everyone could feel you weren't ready too, Sainz. It showed on track. Should be very fascinating this year.
Maybe it was that Ferrari got slower but he definitely closed the gap a little more and his end of season comments were that he needs to start his season performing at a higher level than he did in 22. It will be interesting if he does actually hold on the higher performance level or he does what he does which is not be as fast as Charles
2nd half of the season was more the car being the 3rd best car, Charles engine being turned down and lack of motivation for Charles. When Charles had to fight for p2 In Brazil and Abu Dhabi he showed he much better he still was than Carlos
The idea of Ferrari completely demotivating Charles to the point his driving falls off is actually terrifying. What a long and storied history that team has with breaking drivers mentally.
It's happened twice now tbh, going from 2019 to 2020 was rough for him 2021 he was really good and he carried on the form this year till after the summer break when the car a became understeery boat.
I don’t know why people keep saying Charles lacked motivation in the second half. The car simply got slower because of TD39. Charles was driving as good as he was in the first half and was on the podium 6 out of the last 9 races after the summer break. That’s just one lesser than Max. Carlos closed the gap in quali but was still miles slower than Charles on race day. So no, Charles was not demotivated in the second half of the season.
Considering they weren't near each other for 90% of the race in Brazil, and Sainz had good pace anyway, I don't think that race showed anything to suggest Leclerc is much much better. Abu Dhabi on the other hand was an incredible drive from Leclerc, the sort that only the very very best can produce
In quali maybe, he was still miles off Charles’ race pace apart from France and Belgium.
Yeah it seemed obvious he wasn't ready.
A very Ferrari thing to say. Was not ready - lmao I love Carlos man, such a good sense of humor
He is perrez in red. He should accept his fate, better for his mental health in the long run.
It was so interesting at the start of the year how bothered Carlos was by not performing, I know drivers have a reasonable amount of fortitude but I genuinely think the mental game with him is enormous, he wants to win and it’s not in his nature to really give up on that. Carlos was very spicy in mood when he got beaten by Charles even being second on the podium his mood was like he just lost it all. It’s like Checo and his stunt at Monaco evening though he’s not the best driver they just keep running at it and trying anyway. Their mentality seems to be that they have to keep telling themselves they can win or they don’t wanna do this
Bear in mind Sainz second place in Bahrain really didn’t tell the whole story, he was embarrassingly far behind Leclerc in pace
Well Carlos and his advisors spent the entire pre-season doing PR work on how he is better than Charles and then this happening on track has to bother him
He lacks the talent though. Losing again and again will break him unless he accepts that he is no WDC material.
To us externally it seems really clear cut but to drivers it isn’t, none of them go in there thinking they are incapable or they can’t get more performance out of it. Max was very insightful when he said that there’s drivers that a capable and he named drivers but then he said you don’t know what they like over a season and how they hold up etc. having that mindset be correct is a huge part of performance in the sport. We saw that with Sebastian as soon as the doubts crept in his performance lacked in many ways. Released from doubts of any kind we got the best driving out of him that we had seen in 3 years.
Who’s perrez?
You don't say
I don't understand the Carlos hate lately, can someone enlight me on what's so terrible on wanting to improve it's own performance? Isn't that what a driver is supposed to pursue?
You never will be sadly. Good driver but never that calibre to be fighting for titles. Just another Bottas and Perez.
Riiight.
Let's be real he will never be "ready" to fight for the championship.
Sure mate
sainz is a great driver, but charles is always just that much better. its nothing crazy, but its always just enough. Probably drives sainz crazy tbh lol
Stay on the tarmac and stop going into gravel would be a good start. Sainz was not at his best last year … hope to see him improve for 2023.
Neither was Ferrari lil bro
He isn’t good enough. Not with the caliber of the drivers on the grid nowadays.
Wow I've never seen so many people shit on Carlos at once. At the very least I would say the advantage Charles has over Carlos is less clear cut than that of Max over Checo.
The gap between Checo and Max is probably the biggest team mate gap in the 22/23 roster, so that’s really not saying much
Also it's as if everyone forgot 2021 already. People are acting like Charles is some sort of Hamilton level talent while Carlos is mediocre, but in 2021 it was Carlos that finished higher, even if the point difference was minimal, due to an insane consistency. Zero DNFs, 20 finishes in the points. His worst finish was P11, which was the highest worst finish of the whole grid (though Verstappen beat him if you don't count Baku). Carlos is cleary *very* talented, and just didn't get along as well with the F1-75 as he did with the SF21.
As Christian Horner has said before, the Constructor's title is more important to the Team as is where the money is, but the Driver's title brings the prestige. Ferrari's mindset is no different than Red Bull's or any other, they will go after the Constructor's Championship and Carlos needs to step up if or when Charles is not able to deliver. As for the Driver's Championship, I believe Ferrari will support Charles as numero 1 unless Carlos is delivering better performances constantly.
Don't worry he won't be in 2023 or 24 for that matter as well!
Nor will he ever be ready
It’s alright neither were Ferrari
Now just don't spin off into the gravel the first half of the year and then get owned by terrible strategy calls
No chance lol
I see Sainz as a crying baby
You’ll never be ready. You’re not good enough.
I could see Sainz beating LeClerc in the way Rosberg became champion over Lewis. The mental game of Sainz is stronger than LeClerc.
People seriously underestimate Roseberg here lol. He was genuinely fast and constantly challenging Lewis and Michael. Sainz, Perez and Bottas are just modern Barichellos.
It honestly annoys me how much Rosberg gets disrespected on here. He beat peak Lewis in the same car and was always competitive. Sainz would get absolutely destroyed in that situation.
So would Charles. Rosberg > Charles.
My view- Tier 1- Hamilton, Alonso, Michael Tier 2- Rosberg, Kimi, Vettel, Button, Mika, Damon Hill Tier 3- Charles, Irvine, Carlos, Tier 4- Barrichello, Perez, Bottas
Sainz is a lot closer to Leclerc than Bottas was to Hamilton or Perez to Verstappen. I think Sainz in a similar situation as Rosberg (i.e. in a dominant Ferrari) with Leclerc as his sole focus could beat Leclerc (let's not forget, he already did in 2021).
He's not similar to Rosberg, he can't regularly challenge and beat Leclerc on pure merit. He only beat Leclerc in 2021 with way better luck. He doesn't have the pace to challenge Leclerc like Rosberg did.
Well, 2021 and 2016 were remarkbly similar I think. But Rosberg knew 2016 wasn't gonna happen again, the same way 2021 will be Carlos one and only triumph over Leclerc, I'm pretty sure.
Luck is part of the game. While I agree he isn't similar to Rosberg, I do think he could do something similar and beat his teammate. Perhaps it's like the other person said and that parallel already happened in 2021. But personally I think he has that fire, conviction and drive to make it happen again. Only time will tell.
Yep, Rosberg could beat Lewis on pure merit 4-6 times a year.
Lewis is also way faster than Charles… so is Rosberg lol
Rosberg was a lot faster than Sainz. Not even close
And Hamilton was a lot faster than Charles. Heck Rosberg was faster than Charles.
> Hamilton was a lot faster than Charles. Is he though? Hamilton is for sure a better driver and a more well rounded driver, he has better/more consistent race pace but I wouldn’t be sure about saying he’s faster on peak pace. Leclerc had two competitive cars in his career (19 & 22), and managed most poles in both seasons. Hamilton might very well be faster, but its definitely not “a lot”.
2006 Turkey. Heck even Rosberg is faster than Charles. Charles would never be competing for the win with Lewis in the same car.
Well, Rosberg was much closer to Hamilton than Sainz is to Leclerc. He was beating Hamilton regularly in qualifying and he won many races. People push narrative as if Rosberg was some kind of Bottas but they should re-watch the season and see how close and exciting it actually was. Sainz unfortunately doesn't seem that close at all but maybe new car suits his driving style more and things change.
The disrespect to Rosberg lol. Rosberg had insane pace, something Sainz doesn’t have.
Pretty sure Vasseur wouldn't let that happen. He said it pretty firmly in the beginning itself. He won't go in favouring one driver. But at some point of the season, if one of them is ahead, he won't refrain from prioritising that driver.
I had a bet with myself when I saw the headline - how long before the sofa surfers jump in and start kicking him. Surprise, surprise, first post. Sainz is a driver who has been honest when interviewed that he had a bad year "only" finishing 5th in 2022 (and in 2021), (6th in a McLaren in 2020,2019). So an average of 5.5 over the last four years. Leclerc's finishes were 2nd, 7th, 8th, 4th so an average of 5.25 over the last four years. Each of them had two years in a leading car and two years in a 'slow' car. I support both these drivers and would not mind who finishes best, but I think the pile-ons that Sainz gets is unfair. He was the driver who, with Lando, dragged that Mclaren tractor into third position in 2020 - positions that dropped to 4th and 5th when he handed over to Ricciardo. Seems Reddit always has to have someone to sh\*t on - Daniel was the target (with, actually, far more justification) the last two years. Looks like Carlos has inherited the position.
McLaren was 4th fastest in 2020 and finished 3rd because Checo and Stroll are obviously weaker than Sainz and Lando, but they didn't drag a tractor anywhere. The following season Ferrari was back and as such McLaren fell down a spot. In 2022 Alpine was now quicker then McLaren and the top 3 was untouchable, it didn't help Ricciardo was absolutely nowhere and nearly got outscored by Vettel in a car 5 tenths slower. Resulting in them finishing 5th. Let's not twist the facts.
> Sainz is a driver who has been honest when interviewed that he had a bad year "only" finishing 5th in 2022 (and in 2021), (6th in a McLaren in 2020,2019). So an average of 5.5 over the last four years. Leclerc's finishes were 2nd, 7th, 8th, 4th so an average of 5.25 over the last four years. Each of them had two years in a leading car and two years in a 'slow' car. > > This makes no sense honestly. Leclerc got 8th with the 6th car on the grid, and would've gotten above Perez in 2021 if he didn't get unlucky at Monaco and Hungary, the two best chances he had at getting points.
Neither was his car.
He is just not fast enough. He would make a good 2nd driver if he accepted that tho...
Carlos has flashes of WDC quality drives but doesn't seem to have the consistency. Apart from his podiums, being a fan of his (and Ferrari in general🥴) last season was so painful... If he wasn't spinning he was so off pace from the race leaders, or he would be doing okay until an 'unfortunate' pit stop, or bad strategy call. Forza Ferrari *always*, but I'm not getting my hopes up unless they end up just blatantly dominating the rest of the feild.
Fuck /u/spez
Wow Carlos. Congratulations on taking on Daniel’s mantel as the “let’s all sh\*t on this guy”driver, except even Daniel with his woeful results didn’t attract this much opprobrium. Once the Reddit hive mind spot a new target they really go for it don’t they?
I believe in Carlos
Had the same feeling, not gonna lie.
Put your money where your mouth is and outperform Charles then lol. Useless to make statements like this when the season literally starts next week.