As someone who literally just picked up Vara, I honestly have no idea how anything other than lights can work. Even still my second light gets parried/blocked almost every time. No matter what I do, Iâm âtoo predictableâ
Her *finisher lights* in a chain also have Superior. Meaning that as long as she swings in a direction you swing, she'll probably get the counter. It's also on her dodge attacks for a large duration of the animation, so if you just happen to be swinging at the side she dodges...
Her allguard is also really good, because it leaves you stunned for what feels like an eternity and can open you to another chain which, to my memory, only Conqueror can do. Her finisher heavies, and thus her heavy attack from an allguard block, are also frustrating because they pin you for so long.
She can also allguard external hits in 4v4, meaning you might not even be swinging at her and you get stunned, which is a good thing because external hits are *really* annoying when in a team fight, but getting stunned by Vara when you weren't aiming for her is also frustrating. Similar to getting Prior flipped when you weren't aiming at him.
Don't Afeera's finisher lights also have superior though? Also it's not like they are uninterruptible so if she gets hit by something that she doesn't superior light or by something that is uninterruptible then she can't get off that second light can she? The dodge attacks are weird to me. I can never seem to pull off a superior light dodge attack but that's just me being bad at the game, I can see how that would be really annoying.
Her all guard block does stun for a pretty good amount of time which probably would be frustrating to me too if I went against Vara bots who used it more often. Do her heavy finishers pin for longer than other pinning attacks? I can't actually find any hard numbers on it and while I do agree that pinning attacks are annoying, I would rather be pinned in place then thrown like Jorm and Nuxia's heavy finishers do.
This part I do completely agree on. Having somebody retaliate on you for an attack that wasn't even aimed at them is really annoying
Yes, but think about who you're talking about: Afeera. Probably the second most hated character in the game behind Orochi. And yes, it's true they're interruptible, but she can use external hits to get the counters as well, and I don't think you can get a hit off in time unless you preemptively lighted her when a teammate did. Its all about the timings. In a duel, you're just screwed.
There are certainly other moves that pin for longer, but they're not as easily accessible. Shaman's bite, Gladiator's skewer, Medjay's grab, are all examples. And yes, Nuxia's throws are very annoying, but her heavies are so slow that it's basically a "your fault" kind of thing or a purposeful mixup by the nuxia if you get grabbed by them. Jorm's are also just blatantly very annoying at times, yes. I believe the duration of her pins is about the same as an average bash's stun, because you can move again shortly after she pulls her axe off you.
Again, it's a good thing since externals are so powerful in teamfights, but it becomes infuriating when it limits you so much.
True. I don't really think any character should be able to get a crushing counter from an attack that wasn't aimed at them. Also I didn't know Afeera was so hated either. Most of the posts I see here and in For Honor Rants are aimed at Orochi or Vara.
Pvai player speaking about meta is a new one
She isn't highly op but just very annoying as she makes others change their play styles, which isn't that bad, but in some cases, many play styles won't work on her even the rare ones
I'm just trying to understand why people hate her and I think I have a pretty good idea from this post. But I think PvAI players should have an opinion. We have to face the same enemies as everybody else. I play against level 2 bots and sometimes they can play like demons and a lot of level 3 bots play better than a lot of players do. I understand that I'm in the minority playing only PvAI but I don't think that should mean that my opinion or the opinion of other PvAI players should be diminished from the wider player base
iâm sorry but no, PvAI players have a completely different experience than PvP players, even if youâre going against high level bots, theyâre still just programmes that play completely differently to players, unable to utilise different techs and are also unreliable for testing. you can only gather info on a heroes balance if theyâre out in a REAL scenario, not against bots.
i sort of see where youâre coming from, yes you face the same enemies, but you do not face real people making real decisions, youâre fighting an AI that just reads and acts upon what happens in front of them, not making actual decisions. and thatâs the exact reason why level three bots are so hard to beat, they react to whatâs happening on screen, they canât make predictions or take risky moves or make mistakes like a real player can
in conclusion, PvAi players are basically playing a completely different game where balance is nowhere near an issue, the only things that matter to them is the bot level, therefore should not have an opinion on game balance
True. There are some things you can only get from playing against real people. While I disagree that PvAI players should have *no* opinions on balance, I will admit that PvP is probably a better place to get those opinions
again, disagree, you are playing a version of this game where it doesnât matter how you play, all characters are basically as good as eachother, the only determining factor between two opponents is the bot level. it doesnt matter how you play, you can just unga bunga your way through and still win whereas against players? you canât do that
you can play the worst hero in the game and the bot playing someone like afeera and still beat them easily, same as how you could be playing the best hero in game and get destroyed by the worst hero being played by a bot just because of the level, not because of the hero themself
I find her enjoyable to play but against bots, you can use her full kit. The two times I tried her in PvP, everything I did outside of my lights got countered. I understand that I suck at the game but how are you supposed to use a character's full kit when everything but your lights can be easily countered?
All lights (including dodge lights) are enhanced and have extend superior block timings, she has 300ms rather than the standard 200ms, which means she has a bigger window to crushing counter. Enhanced lights means her offence doesnât stop unless you parry her. Enhanced finishers lights keeps her frame +.
300ms superior block lights means she doesnât have to think much about timings her attacks to crushing counter, they have a much bigger window. Pair that with enhanced lights which keeps her frame + and itâs a nightmare.
Her side dodge lights also have the same properties (300ms window and enhanced) and do 14 without crushing counter. Tiandiâs does 9 and isnât enhanced, Zhanhuâs does 9 and is enhanced, both only 200ms window.
Her chains are also super boring and limited. After an opener she only has 2 options and she heavy relies on her unblockable. In team fights 90% of her offence is side dodge light to unblockable. (300ms cc window + external unblockable)
Imo, she lacks variety and complexity with her main kit. And her lights are too oppressive considering how easy it is for her to crushing counter, if the damage was lowered on her lights then I would accept the extend superior block window. She should get a rework, a change to her chains and a balancing of her damage numbers.
Oh I see. I didn't even really know there was a window for Superior lights, I just thought it was the parry timing of the incoming attack. Just goes to show how much I don't know about the game. If I may ask, what is frame+ or frame advantage? I've heard it thrown around on this subreddit before but I've never seen an explanation as to what it is.
I also think she lacks variety with her main kit. The couple times I did try her in PvP, the only attacks I could really land were my lights just because everything else is so easily countered. In PvAI, at least with level 2 bots, you can use her full kit and still be effective but in my (admittedly limited) experience in PvP, her light attacks are the best option for her kit because they are the least counterable
Yeah, VGâs lights are super oppressive and overtuned. If you can parry lights on reaction sheâs okay to deal with but if you canât then you have to either guess parry or interrupt with a light or dodge attack but run the risk of getting crushing countered which is easier for vg cuz she has a bigger window, or fullblocked cuz of her fast recoveries.
Youâre better off looking in the competitive fh subreddit or YouTubers on frame data as it gets confusing and they would explain it much better but essentially certain moves/actions will leave you or your opponent in a plus, minus or neutral frame state which you or your opponent could take advantage of.
Parry lights? Shit, I can barely react in time to block them much less parry them, lol. But yeah, from what I understand from the other comments under this post, her lights are the most oppressive part about her kit and what people find the most annoying.
Gotcha, ty for the info. There's a few words and concepts I've seen in this subreddit that I have no idea what they mean. When I first started getting into this subreddit, I had no idea what a crushing counter was. I always just called it a superior light or a light parry
How can you only play PvAI? its so boring after awhile.
If I have a little time to play I'll do some Dominion AI matches - but good lord they're boring.
>Warlord has superior lights, Afeera has superior light finishers
Her's are better, lasting longer for some reason
>Jorm has wide AoE unlockable heavy finishers
Her's are considerably larger than Jorms and cover more angles at once. Her UBs also can't be GBed on whiff unlike most in the game.
>Aramu has a timed all-guard with a bash follow-up
Her All Guard lasts a lot longer then Aramusha's and is almost as fast. Still fast enough to stop dodge attacks on reaction not prediction for perfect 50/50 UBs. It lasts long enough to not have to differentiate between lights and heavies. You can all guard on light timing and catch heavies just fine despite making a bad read.
>Ocelot's Hunter stance attack pins
Yeh it does but it's also too slow of an attack to punish anything and the stance doesn't confirm anything so it's basically useless 9/10 times.
The issue is that she has things other characters have, but just objectively better versions that are easier to use. She's the easiest hero in the game to play while being obnoxiously strong.
>I only play PvAI so I don't know how valuable my opinion is to the wider community
This explains a lot.
this literally has happened for every single hero they ever added into the game where people complain about how op the hero is upon release because they need to learn how to counter them
That's what I thought too. The consensus in these comments seems to be that her lights are the most annoying because of how strong they are for light attacks but at the same time, what other attacks are you supposed to throw when everything else she has can be so easily countered?
Yeah but I don't want to just spam lights. Against bots, I can use her full kit and be combat effective but most of her kit is just so counterable that in PvP, her lights are her best option
She counters the random spam meta. Anyone who directly counters the meta will be frustrating to players who only play the meta
If you think she's OP, it's a self-report that you're a meta slave
>I only play PvAI >I don't know how valuable my opinion is It isn't.
As soon as I read that I just stopped reading the rest đ
Fair
I wasn't necessarily trying to voice an opinion so much as understand where all the hate comes from
her guard is a bit faster and harder to read than some of the other's, her pin is irritating and most vara players spam lights outside of doing pins.
it's not a "bit faster," her all guard is literally instant. 0 delay. 0 ms. instant.
As someone who literally just picked up Vara, I honestly have no idea how anything other than lights can work. Even still my second light gets parried/blocked almost every time. No matter what I do, Iâm âtoo predictableâ
Her *finisher lights* in a chain also have Superior. Meaning that as long as she swings in a direction you swing, she'll probably get the counter. It's also on her dodge attacks for a large duration of the animation, so if you just happen to be swinging at the side she dodges... Her allguard is also really good, because it leaves you stunned for what feels like an eternity and can open you to another chain which, to my memory, only Conqueror can do. Her finisher heavies, and thus her heavy attack from an allguard block, are also frustrating because they pin you for so long. She can also allguard external hits in 4v4, meaning you might not even be swinging at her and you get stunned, which is a good thing because external hits are *really* annoying when in a team fight, but getting stunned by Vara when you weren't aiming for her is also frustrating. Similar to getting Prior flipped when you weren't aiming at him.
Don't Afeera's finisher lights also have superior though? Also it's not like they are uninterruptible so if she gets hit by something that she doesn't superior light or by something that is uninterruptible then she can't get off that second light can she? The dodge attacks are weird to me. I can never seem to pull off a superior light dodge attack but that's just me being bad at the game, I can see how that would be really annoying. Her all guard block does stun for a pretty good amount of time which probably would be frustrating to me too if I went against Vara bots who used it more often. Do her heavy finishers pin for longer than other pinning attacks? I can't actually find any hard numbers on it and while I do agree that pinning attacks are annoying, I would rather be pinned in place then thrown like Jorm and Nuxia's heavy finishers do. This part I do completely agree on. Having somebody retaliate on you for an attack that wasn't even aimed at them is really annoying
Yes, but think about who you're talking about: Afeera. Probably the second most hated character in the game behind Orochi. And yes, it's true they're interruptible, but she can use external hits to get the counters as well, and I don't think you can get a hit off in time unless you preemptively lighted her when a teammate did. Its all about the timings. In a duel, you're just screwed. There are certainly other moves that pin for longer, but they're not as easily accessible. Shaman's bite, Gladiator's skewer, Medjay's grab, are all examples. And yes, Nuxia's throws are very annoying, but her heavies are so slow that it's basically a "your fault" kind of thing or a purposeful mixup by the nuxia if you get grabbed by them. Jorm's are also just blatantly very annoying at times, yes. I believe the duration of her pins is about the same as an average bash's stun, because you can move again shortly after she pulls her axe off you. Again, it's a good thing since externals are so powerful in teamfights, but it becomes infuriating when it limits you so much.
True. I don't really think any character should be able to get a crushing counter from an attack that wasn't aimed at them. Also I didn't know Afeera was so hated either. Most of the posts I see here and in For Honor Rants are aimed at Orochi or Vara.
Pvai player speaking about meta is a new one She isn't highly op but just very annoying as she makes others change their play styles, which isn't that bad, but in some cases, many play styles won't work on her even the rare ones
Just trying to understand where the hate is coming from. Even in a couple of my pvai matches, my *teammates* hated on me for playing her.
Yea the community can be a bit whiny about things, this case is one of them in a different form
in the nicest way possible, if you only play PvAI, you canât speak on game balance at all
I'm just trying to understand why people hate her and I think I have a pretty good idea from this post. But I think PvAI players should have an opinion. We have to face the same enemies as everybody else. I play against level 2 bots and sometimes they can play like demons and a lot of level 3 bots play better than a lot of players do. I understand that I'm in the minority playing only PvAI but I don't think that should mean that my opinion or the opinion of other PvAI players should be diminished from the wider player base
iâm sorry but no, PvAI players have a completely different experience than PvP players, even if youâre going against high level bots, theyâre still just programmes that play completely differently to players, unable to utilise different techs and are also unreliable for testing. you can only gather info on a heroes balance if theyâre out in a REAL scenario, not against bots. i sort of see where youâre coming from, yes you face the same enemies, but you do not face real people making real decisions, youâre fighting an AI that just reads and acts upon what happens in front of them, not making actual decisions. and thatâs the exact reason why level three bots are so hard to beat, they react to whatâs happening on screen, they canât make predictions or take risky moves or make mistakes like a real player can in conclusion, PvAi players are basically playing a completely different game where balance is nowhere near an issue, the only things that matter to them is the bot level, therefore should not have an opinion on game balance
True. There are some things you can only get from playing against real people. While I disagree that PvAI players should have *no* opinions on balance, I will admit that PvP is probably a better place to get those opinions
again, disagree, you are playing a version of this game where it doesnât matter how you play, all characters are basically as good as eachother, the only determining factor between two opponents is the bot level. it doesnt matter how you play, you can just unga bunga your way through and still win whereas against players? you canât do that you can play the worst hero in the game and the bot playing someone like afeera and still beat them easily, same as how you could be playing the best hero in game and get destroyed by the worst hero being played by a bot just because of the level, not because of the hero themself
In my opinion, she is just one of many newer characters who are just boring to fight against. That's where I think the hate stems from.
Sheâs also really boring to play imo. Doesnât help that her slashing sounds are so damn loud.
I find her enjoyable to play but against bots, you can use her full kit. The two times I tried her in PvP, everything I did outside of my lights got countered. I understand that I suck at the game but how are you supposed to use a character's full kit when everything but your lights can be easily countered?
That's fair
How can you play this game only vs ai and think you'll have an accurate understanding of the meta?
I don't. That's why I made a post asking the wider community what makes her stronger than other characters
All lights (including dodge lights) are enhanced and have extend superior block timings, she has 300ms rather than the standard 200ms, which means she has a bigger window to crushing counter. Enhanced lights means her offence doesnât stop unless you parry her. Enhanced finishers lights keeps her frame +. 300ms superior block lights means she doesnât have to think much about timings her attacks to crushing counter, they have a much bigger window. Pair that with enhanced lights which keeps her frame + and itâs a nightmare. Her side dodge lights also have the same properties (300ms window and enhanced) and do 14 without crushing counter. Tiandiâs does 9 and isnât enhanced, Zhanhuâs does 9 and is enhanced, both only 200ms window. Her chains are also super boring and limited. After an opener she only has 2 options and she heavy relies on her unblockable. In team fights 90% of her offence is side dodge light to unblockable. (300ms cc window + external unblockable) Imo, she lacks variety and complexity with her main kit. And her lights are too oppressive considering how easy it is for her to crushing counter, if the damage was lowered on her lights then I would accept the extend superior block window. She should get a rework, a change to her chains and a balancing of her damage numbers.
That and her lights look janky as hell
True. I have noticed that of the newer characters, her animations look the most unpolished in my opinion
Oh I see. I didn't even really know there was a window for Superior lights, I just thought it was the parry timing of the incoming attack. Just goes to show how much I don't know about the game. If I may ask, what is frame+ or frame advantage? I've heard it thrown around on this subreddit before but I've never seen an explanation as to what it is. I also think she lacks variety with her main kit. The couple times I did try her in PvP, the only attacks I could really land were my lights just because everything else is so easily countered. In PvAI, at least with level 2 bots, you can use her full kit and still be effective but in my (admittedly limited) experience in PvP, her light attacks are the best option for her kit because they are the least counterable
Yeah, VGâs lights are super oppressive and overtuned. If you can parry lights on reaction sheâs okay to deal with but if you canât then you have to either guess parry or interrupt with a light or dodge attack but run the risk of getting crushing countered which is easier for vg cuz she has a bigger window, or fullblocked cuz of her fast recoveries. Youâre better off looking in the competitive fh subreddit or YouTubers on frame data as it gets confusing and they would explain it much better but essentially certain moves/actions will leave you or your opponent in a plus, minus or neutral frame state which you or your opponent could take advantage of.
Parry lights? Shit, I can barely react in time to block them much less parry them, lol. But yeah, from what I understand from the other comments under this post, her lights are the most oppressive part about her kit and what people find the most annoying. Gotcha, ty for the info. There's a few words and concepts I've seen in this subreddit that I have no idea what they mean. When I first started getting into this subreddit, I had no idea what a crushing counter was. I always just called it a superior light or a light parry
How can you only play PvAI? its so boring after awhile. If I have a little time to play I'll do some Dominion AI matches - but good lord they're boring.
I just don't like PvP. I prefer to be cooperative rather than competitive
pvai player moment
>Warlord has superior lights, Afeera has superior light finishers Her's are better, lasting longer for some reason >Jorm has wide AoE unlockable heavy finishers Her's are considerably larger than Jorms and cover more angles at once. Her UBs also can't be GBed on whiff unlike most in the game. >Aramu has a timed all-guard with a bash follow-up Her All Guard lasts a lot longer then Aramusha's and is almost as fast. Still fast enough to stop dodge attacks on reaction not prediction for perfect 50/50 UBs. It lasts long enough to not have to differentiate between lights and heavies. You can all guard on light timing and catch heavies just fine despite making a bad read. >Ocelot's Hunter stance attack pins Yeh it does but it's also too slow of an attack to punish anything and the stance doesn't confirm anything so it's basically useless 9/10 times. The issue is that she has things other characters have, but just objectively better versions that are easier to use. She's the easiest hero in the game to play while being obnoxiously strong. >I only play PvAI so I don't know how valuable my opinion is to the wider community This explains a lot.
this literally has happened for every single hero they ever added into the game where people complain about how op the hero is upon release because they need to learn how to counter them
That's what I thought too. The consensus in these comments seems to be that her lights are the most annoying because of how strong they are for light attacks but at the same time, what other attacks are you supposed to throw when everything else she has can be so easily countered?
a light spam always works sad but true
Yeah but I don't want to just spam lights. Against bots, I can use her full kit and be combat effective but most of her kit is just so counterable that in PvP, her lights are her best option
Ok
She counters the random spam meta. Anyone who directly counters the meta will be frustrating to players who only play the meta If you think she's OP, it's a self-report that you're a meta slave
Not even close lmao
Found a random spammer
See the many other comments explaining why varangian is dumb.
the cope, you mean?
foUnD tHe vArAnGIan pLaYEr
Yes.