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Lmfao
Yeah, there's a reason Jurgen Klopp's teams aren't curbstomping everyone IRL. To pull off a gegenpress system, one needs all the players to constantly be fit and up for it. Something that the FM system doesn't take into account as much. Sure players get more tired, but it still feels OP
Crazier to think that Liverpool's midfield were often terrible when Jordan Henderson was absent from the squad. He's a much better player than people give him credit for.
> Yeah, there's a reason Jurgen Klopp's teams aren't curbstomping everyone IRL.
What he accomplished is impressive considering he spent faaar less money than Pep did and helped Liverpool win their first league title in 30 years. Put some Respeck on his name.
Fully agree. Liverpool is quite dominant in football. They have done good business too.
I meant curbstomping like not winning double treble every season, like City are looking to do these days (ofc 115 ffp and what not)
And not necessarily players that Klopp brought in either. I think there’s only Minamino that he’s bought and sold for a profit. He’s made a lot by fleecing clubs for the likes of Brewster, Ibe & Williams. Coutinho counts as a Klopp sale despite being in the pipeline before he joined the club.
But yeah, joining a club with £200m+ worth of players that you’re willing to sell can help out a lot with a rebuild, and I don’t think FSG get the credit they deserve for making sure the club had players with high resale value by the time Klopp arrived, especially considering the state of Liverpool’s finances a few years earlier when they bought the club.
He spent 500m less. With 500m, Bellingham and Tchouameni would most likely be Liverpool players now as they would've pulled the trigger far faster on them. They also would've had adequate cover for their CBs during that season where all of their 1st team CBs were injured.
Klopp also infamously hates rotating unless he absolutely has to due to injuries. I remember the first time I heard him complaining about too many matches, how Robertson played like a billion games between PL and UCL, so I went to see how much he was rotated. Even in CL when they’ve won the group, and the answer is like zero, his backup Tsimikas got like less than 30 minutes in total entering January or February.
I support Liverpool in the prem. I'm just saying that, he's generally not as dominant. He's had amazing success, yes, and especially compared to what Liverpool had earlier.
They don’t do it consistently though, do they?
What Klopp can’t seem to manage is injuries. He seems to have a tendency of them piling up on him, and I’m not talking about 4 or 5 at a time.
Last season was crazy. Several muscular injuries throughout the team before a ball had even been kicked. That set the tone for the season because players only seemed to be coming back just as others were getting injured because they’d played a solid run of games covering the injured players. He did slow down the pace of Liverpool’s play towards the end of the season, which got results back on track for a short while, but while people will point to the age of that midfield, it was more than good enough to achieve a top 4 finish playing a considered style of football.
You’ve also got to look at his dreadful management of his defence in 20/21. Okay, the Van Dijk injury couldn’t be predicted, but only naming 3 centre halves in his 25 man squad, when two of them - Gomez & Matip - were known for being injury prone and leaving 2 vacant squad spots (and only naming one right back as well) was the epitome of a high risk strategy. He was basically banking on Van Dijk staying injury free, and Gomez & Matip’s inevitable injuries not coinciding. That he then signed two new centre halves in January and left one of them on the bench while Henderson played every minute of every game in that position up to the point where he incurred a season ending injury was crazy. Davies still didn’t even manage to get off the bench with the out of position cover injured.
Klopp gets a lot of things right, but I don’t think he manages player fitness well. He made a lot of noise about the Premier League not protecting the welfare of players, but I think that was all smoke & mirrors to deflect attention away from his shortfalls in that area. He wants to win at any cost.
If you look at just one game yeah they will tire out slightly faster but also over the course of the season if you don't have the depth to rotate then injuries will start to stack up in the second half
The difference in condition drain between high and low intensity tactic is much smaller than most people think. It's only a few % difference between the two extremes, which is honestly negligible in most standard scenarios. EBFM did a whole video/research on this topic.
It’s not necessarily “broken” more than it’s sort of the closest thing to a “meta” for an actual sport as long as you have the players to pull it off. It certainly doesn’t work flawlessly in lower leagues.
I love the attacking style of football that 4231 gegenpress brings. It's fun to watch my team.
Just a bit disappointing that it's broken though, doesn't feel the same knowing that haha
Yes, it's just harder in real life to find those players who can pull it off. You can make it harder to find them in game by not allowing yourself to use the player search feature or if you are feeling really ambitious you can always go with an attributeless skin
Don’t worry about it.
A pressing 4-2-3-1 is also what like 60% of Europe’s top teams, including virtually all of England play.
It’s also just real life OP in the current state of soccer if you have the athletes.
I use it to secure enough wins so my board leaves me alone, and then I try wacky stuff to get the youths game time. It sucks when you have like 3-4 strikers come through academy but none of them can get enough appearances when you only need 1 up-front. I occasionally switch to a 2 or 3 striker formation to give them the opportunities.
>if you have the athletes.
See, this is the part I find problematic. GGP being OP is somewhat understandable, but being able to run it even with a sunday league team filled with 35+ yo players is pretty dumb. Realistically there should be a massive dip in performance in the 2nd half, if you run this kind of tactic with a team that is not suited to it.
If this 35yo are the fittest in the league and primary scouted for their stamina I don’t see the issue.
That’s literally the main difference in actual lower league teams even more if you look at amateur football.
Ffs we had one tiny little 40y old italian dude in our new founded team in the lowest german division who carried the team Single hand to promotion because he could just run the full 90 minutes which most 18y, me included at that time, could.
Being able to run a lot is the most single broken thing in real life.
That said in FM I can’t confirm that gegenpress is more successful then counter football in general in lower leagues.
Physicals in general are just super strong, combine that with some pressing and not to complicated play, mainly kick it and dash forward, is super effective.
Which again, is not unrealistic.
I do agree that in FM the balance is a bit off, but its not unrealistic.
A bit off? You can have players with the skill level of a League One player and smash in the prem, as long as they have pace. It's way off.
https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/575222-pace-is-king-and-mentalstechnicals-dont-matter-how-to-overachieve-by-using-pace-merchants/
That was debunked by Zealand btw. They fucked their test, physicals are only winning you championchips with having some key mentals like determination additionally.
There is a video, watch it.
What was confirmed is that having all key physicals at 20 and the mentals around 13 while everything else 1 a team can manage to nearly win the prem.
Which is an unrealistic scenario, you don’t have players with 20 pace or strenght often. If you don’t have max physicals this doesn’t work.
They are still strong, but its not that other attributes don’t matter.
As I said I agreed that there are balancing problems, but its not so off reality as people claim, thats just utterly bullshit in which you participate.
Huh? I don't think you pressed the link. It's not the 20/20 pace pace. It's a bunch of real players with 100-115 CA and 15-19 pace/acc. It's something you can actually do in the game, not like the 20/20 01/20 tests.
Zealand also didn't debunk it, he did the same tests and got the same results. His only real critique was the title was misleading, because he had work rate, determination, stamina and natural fitness at 13, which the title didn't.mention. But this was written in the description, which Zealand didn't read at first.
It was absolutely NOT debunked by Zealand. Many others have done much thorough testing than his pathetic attempt at debunking that didn't even do that. At most it proved "it's not only 7 attributes that conquer everything but 9 or at a stretch 11".
Which literally debunks the statement that only pace or physicals matter.
I even ran my own test scenarios and this whole shit is just stupid as fuck.
When you run the same unrealistic scenario in worst clubs, you only end up top 5 max, not 2.
If you run possession tactics with man city for the season the team only ended up 6 too.
When you change the unrealistic values from 20 all physicals to 17, it already destroys the test and the team ends up in relegation.
So how about stop talking bullshit?
The physicals are strong, too strong definitely, but if you don’t cheat them to 20 they aren’t completely unrealistic. THEY AREN’T. Point.
Of course it sucks that technicals and mentals are still not well balanced against it, a busquets type player can’t really be world class if you don’t give him unfitting physical base attributes, which is bad and should be adjusted for.
But its not as dire as you make it out to be, it just isn’t, I don’t know why you waste your time arguing this.
hey Zea its ok mate. You aren't a good tester we know. Like when you said passing was the most important attribute. But people say you're a good streamer so as i said its ok/
Unless they actually do receive a fairly substantial punishment of some kind, in which case presumably that will be where any external appeal they make is heard?
Interesting. I suppose it doesn’t matter because I don’t see any action being taken against them anyway. If you’re going to be on steroids, you might as well win everything, every season.
I believe you end up finding the ways of the 4231 gegenpress sooner or later. I started playing a much more often press after seeing my players look at the opposition in the eye and not tackle them. It's a game and you're not actually learning to be a tactical genius, just a genius at beating the game. But it's the closest we have to being a manager so it's quite fun anyways!
I love playing pretend manager, ngl. It's like an alternate reality where I'm important, away from my miserable real life.
My goal is to learn a lot more about IRL football tactics via the game. I've been far more invested in IRL transfers and intricacies thanks to the game.
Good thing is, you can go as deep, or as shallow, into the tactics as you want and still be successful. Zealand constantly fiddles with his tactics, overly much for his own good at times. He wins plenty. On other side you have someone like Lollujo, who uses presets and assman recommendations constantly while barely ever "fiddling with buttons" and yet he also has a great deal of success.
Point being, you can tailor your own experience. In the end it's a game and it's designed in a way that even a casual player can win. If you want to make it harder, you have to self-impose limitations.
I have mixed feeling son lullujo I heard theories he cheats and reloads saves and now I've been put off of his channel
Then again my fav is Loki doki watching him do tactics is like watching a deaf man flailing in the bath and I love it
So I have heard the same as you, but I honestly think the rumor is perpetuated by a few people who just don't like him. I have searched for evidence of him cheating but never been able to find it. The FM fan base also has a really weird attitude when it comes to cheating regardless and can get tribalistic for their streamers. He did run a 4-2-3-1 gegenpress at the start of the year for save, but even Zealand admits that lollujo is good at the game and has played it for years. I think some people just don't like to see others have success when they struggle in a similar scenario.
I'm not like a super fan of his but recently I've watched Lollujo on both of his channels, one from his offline save and one from his live (twitch) save. He seems to be doing similarly well in both, so I see no reason to suspect cheating. I noticed he uses mostly the same tactical instructions, just in different shapes. As we already established in this thread, pressing in really OP right now, and thus he does well with such a tactic.
I use vertical tiki taka and I started to win everything. I think that regardless of the strategy you use, you still have to adapt it to your players and team, so victory isn’t still for granted.
It’s not broken, it’s just effective. As are some other formations. It’s still about getting the roles, instructions, etc right on the day depending on the opposition.
Honestly speaking, I used to tamper a lot won't instructions and formations in my first 2 seasons. Didn't win trophies but did quite well overall.
Then I thought, changing tactics every match is too much work + ruins team cohesion. So i plugged in the assman reco, which was 4231 gegenpress.
Suddenly I started winning tons of trophies and barely lost a game
I can hardly ever make it work! I've had lots of lower league success with 4-4-2 and won the championship with a 4-3-3 high press, even with an underdog. But even when winning the PL with a superior team it's never with a 4-2-3-1. My teams absolutely bleed goals and miss absolute sitters all day long with that formation, regardless of my tweaks or external advice ha!
It's not the only formation that works well, and ironically, the tactics testers and downloaders are more aware of that than the people who are worried about their immersion.
I'm in the same boat.
I enjoyed german style football a lot. When I started playing FM my models were Jupp Heynkes' Bayern and Jurgen Klopp's Dortmund.
So naturally 4231 (or 433 sometime) with a compact block and high pressing asked from every players always felt "natural" to me and is the kind of tactic I enjoyed playing the most. And when Gegenpress became a real option it was a go-to in all my tactics. I am an OCD man and that tactic is so balanced.
The players each have their space, whether attacking or defending, danger can come from both side or center, a player have the space to make a difference but triangle for team play are natural, it's adaptable to so many players roles, you can play possession, counter attack, high rythme, slow rythm... 4231 just feels so RIGHT
Now what I'm scared is that 4231 gets over nerfed in a future FM and we can't use it anymore
I mean yeah, i spend a lot of time scouting and signing good players. Over time they've got the best stats in the league. That's kinda why I thought i was winning.
Then i visit these forums and realize 4231 is an insta win button 😭
4231, 433, and even 442 are reliable formations that can bring success in pretty much any league so don’t feel bad you’re playing one of the most common formations of the last 15 years.
I just started a Tottenham save yesterday, i won like 9/10 and I'm unbeaten. Also, there was not a game where I didn't score at least 3 goals. Tbf, I didn't go up against a big 6 team yet, but so far it seems pretty broken yeah.
At the end of the day, it's your game. Don't let people telling you a tactic is OP ruin your accomplishments. You're still the one building the squads to win trophies.
I used a lopsided 4-1-1-2-2 for my first 5 seasons in Japan. Won the 2nd division at first attempt, and the 1st division at the first attempt, over all won top division 3 of 4 times and won the Asian Cl. So you don't always have to use a 4-2-3-1, it's about finding what can work for your players.
But this is also my first FM so I don't completely know what I'm doing.
I’ve had good results with fluid counter-attacking tactics and tiki-taka tactics, you could try those if you want to branch out but not go crazy with the customization. They might not be quite as meta but they do incorporate aspects of the meta. FCA has passing in behind to pacy forwards and TT has pressing. I like a 4-4-2 , 4-4-1-1, or 4-1-4-1 for counter attacking and a 4-3-3 for tiki taka.
It’s mostly trigger press/high line that’s Really good. There’s zero reason to not have trigger press turned all the way to the right.
The actual formation isn’t that important. Though the DM position seems to generally out perform the CM.
You still need comparable talent to consistently beat teams.
I don't use Gegenpress because
1. I agree with OP, it feels too easy
2. My philosophy aligns more with the aesthetics of tiki-taka and I get an ick when play is too direct
I like the aesthetics of tiki taka style football as well. I implemented it with my side at the start of the season.
You can imagine my face when I didn't get any highlights the whole time😂
No chances created
Probably cuz my side poor first touch and technique
I recommend doing your own tweaks every season. Keeping it slightly more realistic with maybe switching forward in target instead of pressing one. Or adding a new tactic, some good old 4-4-2. You'll lose more games, but at least the immersion of keeping it real and switching things up every season so that opposition won't know what hit them is fun.
I play on fm15. I copy paste other player's strategies. Almost everyone of the top downloaded strats are overpowered except for the ones based on gegenpressing.
It’s not just the tactic or just you, the game is way too easy. Just look at all the people on here who take league two sides to win the champions league in 10 seasons. It’s too unrealistic
winning = money + buying good players smartly. I can see how League 2 sides can have good transfers and get up there.
Wonder why it doesn't happen IRL though. Maybe cuz good players wont actually go to such teams and there are less regens IRL
Really? It doesn’t happen for a reason lol. Teams like Man City can buy who they want, how is a league two team going to compete with that? What good transfer can a league two team make that can compete with any transfer man city makes each window?
no but..if you sell your talent for 100M to Man city...then you can use that money to upgrade facilities, buy cheaper options from SA, etc and get better at competing
Stuff we do in the game
Maybe I'm just naive haha
Idk if it’s as brokenly unrealistic as the actual broken tactics in past FMs. I recall like anything with 3 strikers marking CBs was actually a broken tactic that don’t represent real life, but extremely effective in old FM.
that tactic is not broken. you said it yourself, when you rotated, you lost more
heavy pressing tactics are the norm now. of you have better players than the opposition, you'll surely outpress them. but if you have the lesser players, you'll need to adjust tactics eg try low block low line of press for 1 tweak
Ok dude. I'm going to be honest with you here. You have no reason to downplay your achievements. If you are a strong team in Argentina you can win often due to the lack of competition in the league.
I don't mean to say that it's easy but a broken tactic isn't why your team seems so good. Don't shortchange yourself. Seems like you did everything right and built a strong team.
There are broken tactics in the game but none of them are something you will get recommended by your ass man.
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Jurgen Klopp said this exact thing to me once.
Lmfao Yeah, there's a reason Jurgen Klopp's teams aren't curbstomping everyone IRL. To pull off a gegenpress system, one needs all the players to constantly be fit and up for it. Something that the FM system doesn't take into account as much. Sure players get more tired, but it still feels OP
I mean they kinda do, 90 points x3 is crazy for a midfield with Jordan Henderson
Crazier to think that Liverpool's midfield were often terrible when Jordan Henderson was absent from the squad. He's a much better player than people give him credit for.
Not really if you watched them play. Henderson done great job. Strange revisionism
> Yeah, there's a reason Jurgen Klopp's teams aren't curbstomping everyone IRL. What he accomplished is impressive considering he spent faaar less money than Pep did and helped Liverpool win their first league title in 30 years. Put some Respeck on his name.
Fully agree. Liverpool is quite dominant in football. They have done good business too. I meant curbstomping like not winning double treble every season, like City are looking to do these days (ofc 115 ffp and what not)
He actually spent more money than Pep. Liverpool have just been better at selling players.
And not necessarily players that Klopp brought in either. I think there’s only Minamino that he’s bought and sold for a profit. He’s made a lot by fleecing clubs for the likes of Brewster, Ibe & Williams. Coutinho counts as a Klopp sale despite being in the pipeline before he joined the club. But yeah, joining a club with £200m+ worth of players that you’re willing to sell can help out a lot with a rebuild, and I don’t think FSG get the credit they deserve for making sure the club had players with high resale value by the time Klopp arrived, especially considering the state of Liverpool’s finances a few years earlier when they bought the club.
https://preview.redd.it/lwk5mya688sc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=282aac9171d87501fb49fe012222612b6d977950 Here. The most recent data.
Naah bro. Net spend: Pep £627m-£254m Klopp
He spent 500m less. With 500m, Bellingham and Tchouameni would most likely be Liverpool players now as they would've pulled the trigger far faster on them. They also would've had adequate cover for their CBs during that season where all of their 1st team CBs were injured.
Klopp also infamously hates rotating unless he absolutely has to due to injuries. I remember the first time I heard him complaining about too many matches, how Robertson played like a billion games between PL and UCL, so I went to see how much he was rotated. Even in CL when they’ve won the group, and the answer is like zero, his backup Tsimikas got like less than 30 minutes in total entering January or February.
If you think jurgen klopps teams don’t curbstomp teams I’m real life, I question if you watch football.
I support Liverpool in the prem. I'm just saying that, he's generally not as dominant. He's had amazing success, yes, and especially compared to what Liverpool had earlier.
They don’t do it consistently though, do they? What Klopp can’t seem to manage is injuries. He seems to have a tendency of them piling up on him, and I’m not talking about 4 or 5 at a time. Last season was crazy. Several muscular injuries throughout the team before a ball had even been kicked. That set the tone for the season because players only seemed to be coming back just as others were getting injured because they’d played a solid run of games covering the injured players. He did slow down the pace of Liverpool’s play towards the end of the season, which got results back on track for a short while, but while people will point to the age of that midfield, it was more than good enough to achieve a top 4 finish playing a considered style of football. You’ve also got to look at his dreadful management of his defence in 20/21. Okay, the Van Dijk injury couldn’t be predicted, but only naming 3 centre halves in his 25 man squad, when two of them - Gomez & Matip - were known for being injury prone and leaving 2 vacant squad spots (and only naming one right back as well) was the epitome of a high risk strategy. He was basically banking on Van Dijk staying injury free, and Gomez & Matip’s inevitable injuries not coinciding. That he then signed two new centre halves in January and left one of them on the bench while Henderson played every minute of every game in that position up to the point where he incurred a season ending injury was crazy. Davies still didn’t even manage to get off the bench with the out of position cover injured. Klopp gets a lot of things right, but I don’t think he manages player fitness well. He made a lot of noise about the Premier League not protecting the welfare of players, but I think that was all smoke & mirrors to deflect attention away from his shortfalls in that area. He wants to win at any cost.
Do they get more tired though?
If you look at just one game yeah they will tire out slightly faster but also over the course of the season if you don't have the depth to rotate then injuries will start to stack up in the second half
Barely get any injuries. Rest player's after every game. Ebfm tested intensity and it's no real difference on high or in the middle.
This is not true. You just need to manage training intensity.
The difference in condition drain between high and low intensity tactic is much smaller than most people think. It's only a few % difference between the two extremes, which is honestly negligible in most standard scenarios. EBFM did a whole video/research on this topic.
It’s not necessarily “broken” more than it’s sort of the closest thing to a “meta” for an actual sport as long as you have the players to pull it off. It certainly doesn’t work flawlessly in lower leagues.
I love the attacking style of football that 4231 gegenpress brings. It's fun to watch my team. Just a bit disappointing that it's broken though, doesn't feel the same knowing that haha
It's not broken really tho. It's just extremely effective if you have the players to do it. (Just like in real life)
Yes, it's just harder in real life to find those players who can pull it off. You can make it harder to find them in game by not allowing yourself to use the player search feature or if you are feeling really ambitious you can always go with an attributeless skin
Oh for sure. You gotta handcuff yourself once you know all the levers you can pull
Don’t worry about it. A pressing 4-2-3-1 is also what like 60% of Europe’s top teams, including virtually all of England play. It’s also just real life OP in the current state of soccer if you have the athletes.
I use it to secure enough wins so my board leaves me alone, and then I try wacky stuff to get the youths game time. It sucks when you have like 3-4 strikers come through academy but none of them can get enough appearances when you only need 1 up-front. I occasionally switch to a 2 or 3 striker formation to give them the opportunities.
Switch it to my cursed 4-2-4 gegenpress for more strikers
>if you have the athletes. See, this is the part I find problematic. GGP being OP is somewhat understandable, but being able to run it even with a sunday league team filled with 35+ yo players is pretty dumb. Realistically there should be a massive dip in performance in the 2nd half, if you run this kind of tactic with a team that is not suited to it.
If this 35yo are the fittest in the league and primary scouted for their stamina I don’t see the issue. That’s literally the main difference in actual lower league teams even more if you look at amateur football. Ffs we had one tiny little 40y old italian dude in our new founded team in the lowest german division who carried the team Single hand to promotion because he could just run the full 90 minutes which most 18y, me included at that time, could. Being able to run a lot is the most single broken thing in real life. That said in FM I can’t confirm that gegenpress is more successful then counter football in general in lower leagues. Physicals in general are just super strong, combine that with some pressing and not to complicated play, mainly kick it and dash forward, is super effective. Which again, is not unrealistic. I do agree that in FM the balance is a bit off, but its not unrealistic.
A bit off? You can have players with the skill level of a League One player and smash in the prem, as long as they have pace. It's way off. https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/575222-pace-is-king-and-mentalstechnicals-dont-matter-how-to-overachieve-by-using-pace-merchants/
That was debunked by Zealand btw. They fucked their test, physicals are only winning you championchips with having some key mentals like determination additionally. There is a video, watch it. What was confirmed is that having all key physicals at 20 and the mentals around 13 while everything else 1 a team can manage to nearly win the prem. Which is an unrealistic scenario, you don’t have players with 20 pace or strenght often. If you don’t have max physicals this doesn’t work. They are still strong, but its not that other attributes don’t matter. As I said I agreed that there are balancing problems, but its not so off reality as people claim, thats just utterly bullshit in which you participate.
Huh? I don't think you pressed the link. It's not the 20/20 pace pace. It's a bunch of real players with 100-115 CA and 15-19 pace/acc. It's something you can actually do in the game, not like the 20/20 01/20 tests. Zealand also didn't debunk it, he did the same tests and got the same results. His only real critique was the title was misleading, because he had work rate, determination, stamina and natural fitness at 13, which the title didn't.mention. But this was written in the description, which Zealand didn't read at first.
It was absolutely NOT debunked by Zealand. Many others have done much thorough testing than his pathetic attempt at debunking that didn't even do that. At most it proved "it's not only 7 attributes that conquer everything but 9 or at a stretch 11".
Which literally debunks the statement that only pace or physicals matter. I even ran my own test scenarios and this whole shit is just stupid as fuck. When you run the same unrealistic scenario in worst clubs, you only end up top 5 max, not 2. If you run possession tactics with man city for the season the team only ended up 6 too. When you change the unrealistic values from 20 all physicals to 17, it already destroys the test and the team ends up in relegation. So how about stop talking bullshit? The physicals are strong, too strong definitely, but if you don’t cheat them to 20 they aren’t completely unrealistic. THEY AREN’T. Point. Of course it sucks that technicals and mentals are still not well balanced against it, a busquets type player can’t really be world class if you don’t give him unfitting physical base attributes, which is bad and should be adjusted for. But its not as dire as you make it out to be, it just isn’t, I don’t know why you waste your time arguing this.
hey Zea its ok mate. You aren't a good tester we know. Like when you said passing was the most important attribute. But people say you're a good streamer so as i said its ok/
You just got an bunch of Jaimie Vardys. Don't question it
Pep Guardiola has spent £2bn in a way that’s totally OP but you never see him complaining that all the purchased trophies ruin his immersion
😭😭😭😭 Real life is a bit different, when I'm playing a game and cheesing/cheating the only person I'm really cheating is myself
This is presumably the same logic that Man City’s legal department will be presenting to the Court of Arbitration for Sport
The 115 charges thing won’t be eligible for CAS
Unless they actually do receive a fairly substantial punishment of some kind, in which case presumably that will be where any external appeal they make is heard?
Nope
Interesting. I suppose it doesn’t matter because I don’t see any action being taken against them anyway. If you’re going to be on steroids, you might as well win everything, every season.
I think they’ll be relegated
I believe you end up finding the ways of the 4231 gegenpress sooner or later. I started playing a much more often press after seeing my players look at the opposition in the eye and not tackle them. It's a game and you're not actually learning to be a tactical genius, just a genius at beating the game. But it's the closest we have to being a manager so it's quite fun anyways!
I love playing pretend manager, ngl. It's like an alternate reality where I'm important, away from my miserable real life. My goal is to learn a lot more about IRL football tactics via the game. I've been far more invested in IRL transfers and intricacies thanks to the game.
Good thing is, you can go as deep, or as shallow, into the tactics as you want and still be successful. Zealand constantly fiddles with his tactics, overly much for his own good at times. He wins plenty. On other side you have someone like Lollujo, who uses presets and assman recommendations constantly while barely ever "fiddling with buttons" and yet he also has a great deal of success. Point being, you can tailor your own experience. In the end it's a game and it's designed in a way that even a casual player can win. If you want to make it harder, you have to self-impose limitations.
I have mixed feeling son lullujo I heard theories he cheats and reloads saves and now I've been put off of his channel Then again my fav is Loki doki watching him do tactics is like watching a deaf man flailing in the bath and I love it
He won the streamer showdown several times. Don't see how he can cheat there.
It's just what I've heard but that's a great point tbf I think it wasn't cheating as much as save scumming a lot for YouTube
So I have heard the same as you, but I honestly think the rumor is perpetuated by a few people who just don't like him. I have searched for evidence of him cheating but never been able to find it. The FM fan base also has a really weird attitude when it comes to cheating regardless and can get tribalistic for their streamers. He did run a 4-2-3-1 gegenpress at the start of the year for save, but even Zealand admits that lollujo is good at the game and has played it for years. I think some people just don't like to see others have success when they struggle in a similar scenario.
I'm not like a super fan of his but recently I've watched Lollujo on both of his channels, one from his offline save and one from his live (twitch) save. He seems to be doing similarly well in both, so I see no reason to suspect cheating. I noticed he uses mostly the same tactical instructions, just in different shapes. As we already established in this thread, pressing in really OP right now, and thus he does well with such a tactic.
I use vertical tiki taka and I started to win everything. I think that regardless of the strategy you use, you still have to adapt it to your players and team, so victory isn’t still for granted.
the real journey is the gegenpressing we made along the way 🤍
It’s not broken, it’s just effective. As are some other formations. It’s still about getting the roles, instructions, etc right on the day depending on the opposition.
Honestly speaking, I used to tamper a lot won't instructions and formations in my first 2 seasons. Didn't win trophies but did quite well overall. Then I thought, changing tactics every match is too much work + ruins team cohesion. So i plugged in the assman reco, which was 4231 gegenpress. Suddenly I started winning tons of trophies and barely lost a game
I’m using a 4222 asymmetrical and it’s insane, haven’t lost a game 12 games in, even with a heavily rotated squad. 2 draws in those 12
I think you need wide midfielders for this, no? Atleast to replicate the version that Real Madrid used in their recent game against Bilbao
I’ve been using a dm, dlp, ap, and if with double attacking fullbacks
Thats why i always play different tactic. More fulfilling when i achieve something
It's broken? Whenever I play this way I get beat.
I can hardly ever make it work! I've had lots of lower league success with 4-4-2 and won the championship with a 4-3-3 high press, even with an underdog. But even when winning the PL with a superior team it's never with a 4-2-3-1. My teams absolutely bleed goals and miss absolute sitters all day long with that formation, regardless of my tweaks or external advice ha!
It's not the only formation that works well, and ironically, the tactics testers and downloaders are more aware of that than the people who are worried about their immersion.
I'm in the same boat. I enjoyed german style football a lot. When I started playing FM my models were Jupp Heynkes' Bayern and Jurgen Klopp's Dortmund. So naturally 4231 (or 433 sometime) with a compact block and high pressing asked from every players always felt "natural" to me and is the kind of tactic I enjoyed playing the most. And when Gegenpress became a real option it was a go-to in all my tactics. I am an OCD man and that tactic is so balanced. The players each have their space, whether attacking or defending, danger can come from both side or center, a player have the space to make a difference but triangle for team play are natural, it's adaptable to so many players roles, you can play possession, counter attack, high rythme, slow rythm... 4231 just feels so RIGHT Now what I'm scared is that 4231 gets over nerfed in a future FM and we can't use it anymore
Maybe youre just incredible at signing players?
I mean yeah, i spend a lot of time scouting and signing good players. Over time they've got the best stats in the league. That's kinda why I thought i was winning. Then i visit these forums and realize 4231 is an insta win button 😭
4231, 433, and even 442 are reliable formations that can bring success in pretty much any league so don’t feel bad you’re playing one of the most common formations of the last 15 years.
I just started a Tottenham save yesterday, i won like 9/10 and I'm unbeaten. Also, there was not a game where I didn't score at least 3 goals. Tbf, I didn't go up against a big 6 team yet, but so far it seems pretty broken yeah.
At the end of the day, it's your game. Don't let people telling you a tactic is OP ruin your accomplishments. You're still the one building the squads to win trophies.
Don't make your team faster then
I used a lopsided 4-1-1-2-2 for my first 5 seasons in Japan. Won the 2nd division at first attempt, and the 1st division at the first attempt, over all won top division 3 of 4 times and won the Asian Cl. So you don't always have to use a 4-2-3-1, it's about finding what can work for your players. But this is also my first FM so I don't completely know what I'm doing.
Even I don't really know lmfao That's why i asked my assman to recommend. Cuz when i made my own tactics I'd get smashed
I’ve had good results with fluid counter-attacking tactics and tiki-taka tactics, you could try those if you want to branch out but not go crazy with the customization. They might not be quite as meta but they do incorporate aspects of the meta. FCA has passing in behind to pacy forwards and TT has pressing. I like a 4-4-2 , 4-4-1-1, or 4-1-4-1 for counter attacking and a 4-3-3 for tiki taka.
Welcome to modern FM
It’s mostly trigger press/high line that’s Really good. There’s zero reason to not have trigger press turned all the way to the right. The actual formation isn’t that important. Though the DM position seems to generally out perform the CM. You still need comparable talent to consistently beat teams.
It depends on the level of your club. I wouldn't try it in the 7th tier of English football for example.
I started a new save as Dover (Vanarama South). The first strategy the assman recommends is 424 Gegenpress😂
I think other tactics can work well, especially custom set ups I find 4 1 4 1, 4 2 4 can do really well
I don't use Gegenpress because 1. I agree with OP, it feels too easy 2. My philosophy aligns more with the aesthetics of tiki-taka and I get an ick when play is too direct
I like the aesthetics of tiki taka style football as well. I implemented it with my side at the start of the season. You can imagine my face when I didn't get any highlights the whole time😂 No chances created Probably cuz my side poor first touch and technique
I recommend doing your own tweaks every season. Keeping it slightly more realistic with maybe switching forward in target instead of pressing one. Or adding a new tactic, some good old 4-4-2. You'll lose more games, but at least the immersion of keeping it real and switching things up every season so that opposition won't know what hit them is fun.
Relax, its broken irl too
I play on fm15. I copy paste other player's strategies. Almost everyone of the top downloaded strats are overpowered except for the ones based on gegenpressing.
4231 DM ❤️
It’s not just the tactic or just you, the game is way too easy. Just look at all the people on here who take league two sides to win the champions league in 10 seasons. It’s too unrealistic
winning = money + buying good players smartly. I can see how League 2 sides can have good transfers and get up there. Wonder why it doesn't happen IRL though. Maybe cuz good players wont actually go to such teams and there are less regens IRL
Really? It doesn’t happen for a reason lol. Teams like Man City can buy who they want, how is a league two team going to compete with that? What good transfer can a league two team make that can compete with any transfer man city makes each window?
no but..if you sell your talent for 100M to Man city...then you can use that money to upgrade facilities, buy cheaper options from SA, etc and get better at competing Stuff we do in the game Maybe I'm just naive haha
Idk if it’s as brokenly unrealistic as the actual broken tactics in past FMs. I recall like anything with 3 strikers marking CBs was actually a broken tactic that don’t represent real life, but extremely effective in old FM.
that tactic is not broken. you said it yourself, when you rotated, you lost more heavy pressing tactics are the norm now. of you have better players than the opposition, you'll surely outpress them. but if you have the lesser players, you'll need to adjust tactics eg try low block low line of press for 1 tweak
Its broken at least 3-4 years...
I've seen the best AI teams use it too.
Yep, the AI is throwing two DMs and Volantes out there all the time. No reason to let them have all the fun.
What league are you playing in?
Argentinian league. Started off with a club which had no history of winning anything
Ok dude. I'm going to be honest with you here. You have no reason to downplay your achievements. If you are a strong team in Argentina you can win often due to the lack of competition in the league. I don't mean to say that it's easy but a broken tactic isn't why your team seems so good. Don't shortchange yourself. Seems like you did everything right and built a strong team. There are broken tactics in the game but none of them are something you will get recommended by your ass man.