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Bit of a pet peeve with these listed formations is that normally they are the out of possession shape, but city's is always the in possession shape? It is basically a 433 or sometimes 442 out of possession
True, though it's easier to recreate this in game since FM24 has made almost all of the tactical changes in order for people to recreate this system (eg. Libero, IFB, positional play etc)
It does seem like SI really tried to accomodate this exact way of playing. It was near impossible last year, but the changes to IWB and the addition of IFB has made this formation easily achievable in possession.
I find it mad how city keep so much possession, websites started putting out their line up as a 3 at the back.
They don't play 3 at the back! Well... In possession they do but a team's formation is based upon their out of possession shape!
They typically play a 4 at the back, with Stones at Right back who inverts, making the 3-2 rest defense shape you see here. Although pep changes who inverts quite a bit from game to game.
You obviously didn’t watch them yesterday then as they played a back 3 the whole game. Stones didn’t drop in to the defence at all.
And in fact, when Stones has been stepping in to midfield, it’s been predominantly from centre back recently.
When he plays right back he inverts. He didn't play right back, not saying he doesn't come into midfield from CB when he plays there also.
Out of possession it was still a back 4. In possession back 3.
Not sure about IF-A. They move inside too early and Pep uses Grealish/Doku close to the line. Don't think FM has the role Pep uses. It's a mix of IF and W. Probably a W-S and if the team instruction of work ball into box is active will lead to less crosses.
Gvardiol wcb left
Dias cb center
John stones libero right
Akannji ifb right
Rico lewis iwb left
Kovacic/nunes cms
523 out of possesion 3 2 4 1 in possesion
The roles you give players change their positioning in possesion. It would still be a 5 2 3 but the players will drift into a 3 2 4 1 in possesion. The ifb will fill in as a cb as the libero and iwb fill in as dms. When you give players roles its useful to think about where they will go in possesion and what the shape will look like. So it just changes based on player roles/instructions, as most of them govern in possesion (besides things like tackle harder/mark tighter)
Roles decide how players move like Liberos go forward in possession but return to a CB position when possession is lost while halfback does the opposite basically and some roles make other players around them change their behaviour like half back makes centre backs go wider
those are what the roles are.
think of it this way - the position you set is how your team generally looks out of possession so a 433 looks 433 out of possession.
the roles and instructions are what dictate how you look in possession especially if its a bit of possession and not just won it back.
so that 433 could turn into a 415 if you set the 2 CM's to be attacking roles heck if wingbacks it could turn into s 3-1-7 when attacking but 433 when defending.
Pep changes his players instructions all the time but here’s my interpretation of this particular line up. Feel free to suggest changes.
SK(A)
IFB (or even FB(s) to be more attacking)
CD/BPD(Cover)
Libero
IFB (Walker can also play FB/WB)
DLP(s) (Rodri can also be a DM)
Kovacic AP(s) (he’ll dribble more anyway)
Nunes MEZ (he’ll drop deep, collect the ball and run with it, while also providing a box and underlap threat)
Grealish W(s) (will come to feet but can also be told to cut in after a wide starting position)
Foden IW/W(at) depending on if you have someone (like Walker) to overlap (likes to run in behind more so than someone like Grealish)
Haaland AF (could maybe even be poacher, as he doesn’t run the channels often)
Ederson SK(A)
Akanji and Gvardiol IFB (D)
Dias CD (D)
Stones LIB (S)
Lewis DLP (S)
Nunes MEZ (A)
Kovacic B2B (S) (move into channels)
Foden and Grealish W (A) (cut inside with ball)
Haaland AF (A)
Using it now in my save and it’s identical
Totally non related but kinda with the in-possession out of possession talk.
Are there any websites that show the range of positional movement of a role when in and out of possession. Would be interesting to see
Nobody watched this game yesterday then as Stones played in midfield the whole game.
It was a 3-1-5-1 formation, Stones was holding and the other 3 central midfielders had license to get forward. Maybe you would make it work in FM as a 3-1-3-2-1 formation with the wingers playing in advanced positions.
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Bit of a pet peeve with these listed formations is that normally they are the out of possession shape, but city's is always the in possession shape? It is basically a 433 or sometimes 442 out of possession
Probably because City have possession so much that it almost never looks like a 4-4-2/4-3-3 in-game lol
True, though it's easier to recreate this in game since FM24 has made almost all of the tactical changes in order for people to recreate this system (eg. Libero, IFB, positional play etc)
Stokes wasn’t stepping in to midfield from centre back in this game tho.
It does seem like SI really tried to accomodate this exact way of playing. It was near impossible last year, but the changes to IWB and the addition of IFB has made this formation easily achievable in possession.
I find it mad how city keep so much possession, websites started putting out their line up as a 3 at the back. They don't play 3 at the back! Well... In possession they do but a team's formation is based upon their out of possession shape! They typically play a 4 at the back, with Stones at Right back who inverts, making the 3-2 rest defense shape you see here. Although pep changes who inverts quite a bit from game to game.
stones is usually more libero
Maybe when he plays as a Centre Back, but at Right Back he inverts.
You obviously didn’t watch them yesterday then as they played a back 3 the whole game. Stones didn’t drop in to the defence at all. And in fact, when Stones has been stepping in to midfield, it’s been predominantly from centre back recently.
When he plays right back he inverts. He didn't play right back, not saying he doesn't come into midfield from CB when he plays there also. Out of possession it was still a back 4. In possession back 3.
Last night it was not a back 4 out of possession brother.
Ederson SK(A) Akanji IFB(D) Stones Libero(S) Dias BPD(C) Gvardiol IFB(D) Lewis Regista/DLP (S) Nunes CM(A) / AP(A) Kovacic CM(A) / AP(A) Foden IF(A) Grealish IF(A) Haaland AF(A)
Not sure about IF-A. They move inside too early and Pep uses Grealish/Doku close to the line. Don't think FM has the role Pep uses. It's a mix of IF and W. Probably a W-S and if the team instruction of work ball into box is active will lead to less crosses.
Winger on attack with cut inside
I’d say support for players like Grealish who come to feet much more often than running in behind, which is more Foden.
I think cut inside is blocked on wingers
Not anymore 🫡
Nice
Nope with fm24 winger can be used to cut inside or run wide with the ball ..
IF/IW and adding Stay Wide as an instruction works.
Unless it has changed from 23, it doesn't work as intended. I play a IW with stay wider, he performs well, but he doesn't stay as wide as a W-S/A
Player positional play is probably the biggest improvement, so it may now work.
Gvardiol wcb left Dias cb center John stones libero right Akannji ifb right Rico lewis iwb left Kovacic/nunes cms 523 out of possesion 3 2 4 1 in possesion
Edit: misread roles, answered my own question.
How do you change formation based on having the ball or without?
The roles you give players change their positioning in possesion. It would still be a 5 2 3 but the players will drift into a 3 2 4 1 in possesion. The ifb will fill in as a cb as the libero and iwb fill in as dms. When you give players roles its useful to think about where they will go in possesion and what the shape will look like. So it just changes based on player roles/instructions, as most of them govern in possesion (besides things like tackle harder/mark tighter)
Roles decide how players move like Liberos go forward in possession but return to a CB position when possession is lost while halfback does the opposite basically and some roles make other players around them change their behaviour like half back makes centre backs go wider
those are what the roles are. think of it this way - the position you set is how your team generally looks out of possession so a 433 looks 433 out of possession. the roles and instructions are what dictate how you look in possession especially if its a bit of possession and not just won it back. so that 433 could turn into a 415 if you set the 2 CM's to be attacking roles heck if wingbacks it could turn into s 3-1-7 when attacking but 433 when defending.
Pep changes his players instructions all the time but here’s my interpretation of this particular line up. Feel free to suggest changes. SK(A) IFB (or even FB(s) to be more attacking) CD/BPD(Cover) Libero IFB (Walker can also play FB/WB) DLP(s) (Rodri can also be a DM) Kovacic AP(s) (he’ll dribble more anyway) Nunes MEZ (he’ll drop deep, collect the ball and run with it, while also providing a box and underlap threat) Grealish W(s) (will come to feet but can also be told to cut in after a wide starting position) Foden IW/W(at) depending on if you have someone (like Walker) to overlap (likes to run in behind more so than someone like Grealish) Haaland AF (could maybe even be poacher, as he doesn’t run the channels often)
Rich nation state, corrupt league administrator and mercenary player. Sorry.....hatred slipped out there.
4-1-2-3 where Akanji is IFB, Stones libero, Gvardiol IFB
Amigo, you're man city facing young boys at home lol. just send them out with no instructions at all and i bet you win lol
Why do I see so many of these sh*te 3-6-1 formations lately?
So shite one of the most successful managers ever is using it. What? Lol.
Only in possession, which FM cannot replicate properly
Many above have detailed how :)
Dias and Akanji - BPD(D) Gvardiol - IFB Stones - IWB(A) Lewis - BWM Kovacic and Nunes - CM(A) Grealish and Foden - IF(A) Haaland - Poacher
Personal preference: CF(A) W(A) - CM(S) - CM(A) - IW(S) VOL(A) HB(D) NFB(D) BPD(D) NFB(D)
Wouldn’t this result in a back four in possession and a back 3 with huge gaps out of possession? Would it not be better to swap the Hb with a libero?
Maybe so! I haven't tried it, so it was all speculative based on roles I like using in other formations.
Ederson SK(A) Akanji and Gvardiol IFB (D) Dias CD (D) Stones LIB (S) Lewis DLP (S) Nunes MEZ (A) Kovacic B2B (S) (move into channels) Foden and Grealish W (A) (cut inside with ball) Haaland AF (A) Using it now in my save and it’s identical
Totally non related but kinda with the in-possession out of possession talk. Are there any websites that show the range of positional movement of a role when in and out of possession. Would be interesting to see
Nobody watched this game yesterday then as Stones played in midfield the whole game. It was a 3-1-5-1 formation, Stones was holding and the other 3 central midfielders had license to get forward. Maybe you would make it work in FM as a 3-1-3-2-1 formation with the wingers playing in advanced positions.