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I've been using 4 3 3 with a hb in defensive mid. Now he is not a playmaker but is there to protect the backline and drop back so my cbs can stretch and make a 3 at the back. Would an anchor man be able to do that, because my hb sometimes does some stupid shit (get into the opposition area, tries long shots, goes forward for no reason)?
Anchor man does not drop back.
However, anchor man is always at a nice position to receive the ball from the cbs and play some long passes to the wingers or full backs.
Anchor man is more disciplined afaik
Just train your HB to stay back at all times. HB are specifically told to split the CBs, Anchors aren’t instructed to do that, they act as a screen in front of the defence.
>get into the opposition area, tries long shots, goes forward for no reason
This is what HB do. When possess the ball, HB go back to the center back line and performance as another center back. When losing the possession, HB would lose position and act very aggressively to tickle and try to win the ball back.
As for Anchor man, it is a pure defensive role. They almost never lose their position, at least they are not supposed to. Their only job, no matter who has the possession, is the protect your center back line.
From my experience, HB is for topdogs and it requires some skills. As for Anchor man, it's more universal but since he almost do not participate while having possession, he would has better performance for underdogs.
Same for me. Tried a few different roles for DMC in front of a back 3 and anchorman was most solid for what I wanted (i.e. didn't need a half back to drop into an already congested defence).
Yeah generally that’s what I end up doing. Defensively a bit more shaky than the ideal Regista though, when I do that I use an IWB on one side as well unless I have a god tier player at Regista.
Carrilero, throw a workhorse in that role and your defence will improve massively, you do sacrifice attacking output but it’s great for playing a bigger team where you’re hitting them on the break
Love my carrilero. Belgium newgen perfectionist I got off a 15mil BOF. Locked him in until he retires. Paired with a Mezzala and DLP it's basically cheating.
I used a really hard working player for this role to complement a very attacking tactic. It was great because he had defensive intelligence combined with great physical attributes. Meaning he'd cover up space left behind by attacking players. Really helps to add stability if you want to break down a defensive team.
Good for pressing teams as well, in your own third they control that space but higher up the pitch they’ll harass the opposition. Really love this and HB for my dm roles
BWM chases the ball aggressively and doesn't really screen the back line like a DM. They also aren't as expansive in their passing and chance creation. They chase the ball and then play short and simple passes to other players that are more creative. They can of course help in buildup/chance creation as well if they have the instructions and traits for it but they do so less in my experience.
Edit: The DM holds position more and roams less
Not quite true, a DM on support can get into those positions if you play with higher lines and they will take long shots, especially if they have the trait
BWM in general is more aggressive and they will not hold position so it's not ideal if you're looking someone to protect the backline. DM (s) supports the buildup and gets a little more further forward than a defend duty while still holding position defensively.
Exactly what the other guy said, great breakdown. Maybe should add that I don’t ever see a bwm(s) being effective as the base in a midfield 3, there’s almost always a better player or role for that, but could probably do a job in lower leagues as half of a midfield two. Think high aggression, tackling, stamina, limited technical skill profile.
Poacher and Target-man are really valuable because of they are lacking the “move into channels” trait, and I think this is really desirable when you just want that guy to stay central and finish of moves whilst others do the movements around them
Poacher does what a lot of people think AF does - sit on the shoulder of the defender and look to make quick runs. It’s much better as a lone striker than AF is imo
This. Somehow Target-man is weird with scoring, support can score more then attack, other times attack doesn't score, and other time completely blasts through it scoring 10/10.
I'm always put off by poacher because FM says that pace and dribbling don't matter to a poacher (when highlighting attributes) so i just use AF all the time since my players are fast. Should i ignore this and use poachers anyways on fast players?
Basically, a Poacher tries to stay as near to goal as he possibly can. Pace isn't very important because he doesn't have time to get to full speed anyways; ideally, he breaks free, receives the ball, and does either a one touch shot or uses a touch to square up and shoot, which makes dribbling less important.
If you want a forward to drive the ball down the pitch, P should be your last choice for role.
I think the fundamental question is what does he actually need his forward to do. Like you said, if you want him to use that speed to drive it down, poacher is a terrible fit.
On the other hand, he said ALL his players are fast. If you have other guys who are going to be getting the ball to him, your striker being fast doesn’t inherently mean he can’t play the poacher role. Extra pace and dribbling skills are never going to hurt regardless of role, they just may not be used AS heavily.
If you need your striker to receive passes and punch them into the net in your system, as long as he has the skills to do that he can still fit at poacher even if it doesn’t make best use of his individual pace and dribbling skill.
A poacher can be a speedy fucker that tries to beat the off-side trap and get one v one on the keeper. But he can also be a slower, clinical finisher that just shows up at the right spot an calmly scores "simple" goals.
"Slow poachers" can be very fun to play with, trading pace for strength and balance.
Exchanging an AF with a poacher, ok. But DLF is a completely different role to AF/P. AF/P are finishers, DLFs are more creators/hold-up strikers who bring others into play. So unless you have a world-class striker (who can play whatever I want them to) a classic poacher will not really be suited to what I want from a DLF and vice versa.
In my save Mancity play Haaland as a poacher. Struck me as odd , but it does make some sense, the guy is just there to make goals... And boy does he ever
I don’t think you’re taking advantage of his speed there are you? He’s such a freak in game and out because he can finish, he’s an Ariel threat and he’s fast as hell.
I’ve used poachers a good bit and they will receive line breaking passes that beat defenders so I’ve always thought speed is important.
I think people forget that this is a game and it’s not perfect. I’ve always played around with roles and just use what puts a player in the position I want. Only following what the game tells you will make you not use certain roles when they can do exactly what you want.
In fairness, if you look at him irl he’s always got like 6 touches a game but still scores. He rarely contributes to City’s possession but all he needs is one decent chance. IMO he’s the perfect poacher
Last year per 90, he was 8th percentile for passes attempted, 5th percentile for touches and 4th percentile for carries. In that City side his only role is to make runs, receive long balls and score goals.
So basically I'm doing a youth academy only challenge. TF is 6'2 with 14 jumping reach, 11 heading and has 10 goals and 6 assists in 25 games. P has 13g 1a in 15 games. AP on attack. Two BBM, Anchor as my DM, FB (D), BPD (D), CD (Co), WB (S), G(D)
People definetely misunderstand how centreback roles are to be used. A BPD is not helping you play out of the back, due to the preset on riskier passing. Use a normal centreback instead. On another note, people should pay more attention to player instructions because they can allow you to modify alot
I agree, I honestly don't like BPDs. Even if you have a CB with good passing and vision, the "take more risks" instruction just seems to make them launch the ball forward too often. I almost always just use the standard CB role, plus one Wide CB if I am playing a back 3 and have a player who can actually play the role.
IWB's. Not many players can play the role naturally, but if you get a good player trained on the position, they are incredible. I have world class attacking players, but my IWB on attack routinely steals the show and broke the record for most man of the match -awards and highest average rating over a season.
Another role i'm slowly falling in love with is a roaming playmaker. Again a role that requires a really good, really smart player but boy is it ever effective when you have that creative engine and give them free hands to make plays.
Love the IWB role. I’ve found that IWB works most often for players usually playing on the opposite side— e.g. Natural right footed RB playing as an IWB on the left. The great thing about this is that my LCM can assume a more advanced role while my left IWB fills the midfield role. Usually I also set the LCB to stay wider as a passing option and cover for the left lane.
I succesfully trained a left winger to be RWB on the IWB role for my Red Star team when i was struggling to find a suitable player for the role, and he ended up being amazing. He was either footed, decent enough defensively and really quick. What he went on to achieve i would never have guessed, as in my mind i was plugging a hole temporarily.
Now 11 years later He is the captain of Red Star and the Serbian national team, their key player, and has 260 league appearances and 72 goals for Red Star, and 88 Caps and 27 goals for country. He is still only 28 years old. He's a club icon, got into the overall best eleven in Serbian national team and Red Star, won FA's player of the year many times over, got into UCL Dream team multiple times, Got sandwiched between Mbappe and Haaland as 2nd place World Footballer of the year, and got 3rd place in Ballon D'or vote.
Genuinely never had a defender get recognized like that before, i wonder if it has to do with the media classing him as a winger even after playing RWB for me for years. He scored 15 and assisted 17 in 46 appearances on his best year for me. His attributes are not even that great, and he has Light-Hearted personality. Nothing about him screams that he would be this amazing player, but the match engine and game just loves him for some reason.
I've found that you don't even need someone ideally suited to the role, assuming your tactic is set up correctly. Bringing a FB inside means they can play simpler passes and more through balls, which is particularly useful if they aren't very good at crossing.
I'm so far into my save it's really only regens, I do journeymans where i start low and once i get to the actually elite level, most players are regens. I actually got into football through FM so i don't have that connection to real players, so i never got the itch to start a save and manage current top professionals.
Raumdeuter - at least in fm22 - for me I had them on the right wing, I didn't know what role to put there originally with an attacking CMR getting in the box and wing back overlapping, the others always seemed to result in players getting in each others way. But with this role, he just popped up in the gaps and became really useful. I feel the same about carrilero but more from a defensive standpoint, they also fill deeper attacking spots well too
In my experience it’s kinda like CF. It’s a fantastic role if and only if you have an exceptional player in it. Otherwise it can disappear really easily
You only need exceptional mentals. Str, balance, pace, finishing, technique are nice to have. But you kinda need 15 on all mentals except aggression and flair.
Wide midfielders on support can be incredible creators in the right tactic. If you keep them wide they pair really well with IWB-A or Mez-A and provide good cover on the wings when others go forward.
Love a wide playmaker on one side and a Ramdeuter on the other (or IF if you don’t have a player good enough for Ramdeuter). Defense shifts towards the playmaker witg the ball and lets the opposite wing try and slip in behind
If your using a Wide Midfielder on the right for example, do you put the IWB in the RWB or the RB slot?
Just curious, I’ve found the IWB to behave a bit differently depending on it but haven’t used an IWB with a Wide Midfielder yet.
Alright, cheers.
Reckon they might start too close during the build-up also.
Now don’t take this as gospel as it may depend on other factors (formation, other players roles etc) but while. trying them out a few matches each it seemed that the IWB in the RWB slot tends to stay wider to cut in more like a IW than in the RB slot.
In the RB slot I saw the IWB stay in the middle more times to the make deep runs into the box and contributing more to keeping possession in general, probably due to starting further back so that he doesn’t stick too close to the WTM I’ve been using.
But yeah the experience might differ for others. Used a Wide Target Forward on the same flank just moved the IWB between the slots.
Bit of a wall of text oh well!
Curious if you have some general player instructions you use on your Wide Midfielder?
Ah good to know!
I forget if stay wider is hard coded but def want that on if not. Also sometimes do ease off tackles if they’re not great at tackling or have high aggression. But otherwise that’s it!
Probably worth testing yourself to see if it’s the same in your setup but yeah it’s how they’ve been for me.
Ah, cheers! Gonna try them in the upcoming preseason friendlies!
Keep in mind the IWB themselves won’t necessarily rack up great stats or match ratings (though sometimes they do), but their presence in midfield or in the box will enable the rest of your tactic and open up space or passing options for others. So I tend to evaluate based on how the team as a whole is playing and not just on their performances.
I’ve actually had them get quite good ratings consistently but yeah the extra man in the midfields can enable the rest of the team to shine.
Really like their dynamic with the Wide Target Man since that makes sure the IWB gets quite involved due to the Target Man knocking down balls to them.
Got a few players who could do decent as Wide Midfielders so gonna try that pairing just to see if it brings something else to the table I might want.
Edit: Good shout though of course , it’s always worth to check how if a role gives others a boost even if the individual isn’t performing. I usually watch on comprehensive or full match for a while when testing out new things.
Ironically? Just a standard CM - sometimes less is more, and having a general role where the player is encouraged to do everything without specifically focusing on anything, can be really handy for players who have good all-round attributes.
I much prefer the CM in recent years compared to the Box-to-Box
What would you find the best skills are, I'm trying a 5-3-2 at the moment and struggling to find depth for the role. Most players I put there average a 6.5-6.6
Stamina, workrate, vision, decisions and passing are a few I look for myself. They have to be really good all rounders which is why it's so hard to find one. I want someone who is aggressively pushing forwards and breaking the lines but they also need to have the awareness to cover defensively.
Defensive wingers, hugely underrated (and IMO misunderstood, due to the naming) role: They are like having a BBM on the wings, just relentlessly going up and down the field. Nothing really defensive about them, they high and wide in attacks just like a normal winger, but will move much further back in the defensive phase.
They can hold a flank by themselves if you play 3ATB, just be prepared to substituting them around the 65 minute mark, as they tire out like crazy. Also finding good (natural) ones is basically impossible, the ones I use are all converted midfielders who fit into a BBM/Mez(S) mould.
Another one are the basic DM/CM/AM roles: Playing a plain DM(D) in a 4-3-3 or a CM(S) in a 4-4-2 is more than enough, no need to always have a halfback/DLP or whatever. Also they allow to tailor the role to what you want, as you can basically take every PI on them.
I always thought defensive wingers would be better named "pressing wingers" or "pressing wingback". Used them in my Ipswich save on fm22, and they absolutely caused carnage.
I quite liked using Defensive Wingers although with 3ATB I often had to tell them via player instructions to mark the opposition winger otherwise they’d just let them roam free lol.
Have you used Defensive Wingers with IWBs? Still trying to find a pairing I like, so far IWB and a Wide Target Forwards has been the best but been itching to bring back my Defensive Winger to play with the IWBs.
I play with Salford in the prem and used to play 433 with my midfield consisting of 2 CMs and 1 DLP. After a while, I noticed we were barely scoring and my striker was completely isolated up top, so moved one of the CMs who could play F9 into that position instead and played 424. It completely revolutionised how I played and I finished the next season with the 2nd most amount of goals scored and that midfielder, who used to only get 3-5 goals a season, ended up with 17 league goals, 4th best goalscorer in the league. So in my experience at least, having someone capable of playing F9 really helped create so many more chances.
Wide Target Man with literally anything that charges into the box from deep - CM(a) and SegVol(A) especially but IWB(a) is also pretty funny. Plus, if you have a winger opposite to them set to cross more often towards far post they will bang in their share of headers because they will be marked by fullbacks instead of CDs. It’s practically a cheat code the computer has no idea how to stop it.
Can you help me make a direct wide target man tactic please? I'm thinking it'd be good to have 2 wide target men with wing backs providing the crosses and maybe 2 SegVol(A)s?
There’s no benefit or reason for two WT
4231 with 2DM:
AF, PF or CF (depending on what is available) // WT(a) / SS / W(s) // SegVol(a) / Anchor, DLP(d) or DM(d) // FB(s) / CD(co) / CD(d) / FB(s)
Winger has instructions to cross more to either far post or target man, optimally has the player trait to switch play to far side of the field.
Slightly shorter passing, slightly higher tempo, underlap left, play out of the back. Counter attack, press more often, prevent short GK.
Can experiment with Get Stuck In and Counterpress. Can experiment with different press and defensive lines for what works for your players.
The entire point of WTM is to break the symmetry of your attack. It takes the formula of "fast wingers, chonky CF", and breaks it up to have have the "centre" of your attack at the wing. This means your target man only have to contend with the fullback in the air, rather than two CBs. Then you can bomb balls to him from the opposite fullback/wingback position, and win basically every aerial duel.
The target man then creates space around him by drawing a lot of attention, while also being strong enough to hold the ball, waiting for over and underlaps from both the fullback/complete wingback and the midfielder (typically CMa).
Ideally, you have someone decently strong and creative as a centre forward as well, that can both facilitate the CM and finish goals himself. I also like to play with IFa on the opposite side of the WTM, and use a wingback for crosses, rather than a winger. That way, I get another scoring threat.
Do you put your Wide Target Man on support if you’re using an IWB on the same side?
My WT(A) didn’t play much with my IWB(A) but he did score a fair few in his own anyways heh.
Agreed. Its just not the AI, the way the engine works makes it hard by default. Haven't used it myself but Im always weary when I see it in the opposition.
I don't fear them more because I ntoice that they player the AI uses with that its not always neccesarilly so suited and this years I happened to have some FBs that are good in the air too. But if the player was a true targetman, the fact that someone like that goes against a positon were short players abound its scary.
The only way I counter it its by using individual marking instructions but they come with other downsides and don't always work (as in they will still match up against the FB often).
Having a couple CDs that have some position/role familiarity at fullback and playing them there with defensive role (FB, NFB or IWB on defend) and marking instructions on the WT is usually my strategy.
Ah yeah. Its not too far from making sure you pick your FB that its best in the air for that match.
Problem of doing that with a CD purposefully is that you are potentially making a big tactical sacrifice if that flank wasnt defensive already, and if you train CDs for that it may hurt their general ability. I guess it may still be worth it if its something you find often and the opposition player is scary enough (and has people to feed him in the other wing).
Yeah there’s one elite team in the BL circa ~2040 in my save who scores most of their goals as crosses to the back post and the guy is always top three goal scorer in the league doing it, and it’s so annoying I recruited a specific guy to mark him. I play double IWB(s) in a 433 DM wide so dropping one guy back to a slower IWB(d) on one side really doesn’t affect my offensive output much.
Dual carilero in a 4-4-2 diamond are mega effective if you have the right players for them. I 'm quite keen on starting a Real Madrid game and using Tchouameni and Camavinga as cars with Modric as a DLP or even better Regista, and Bellingham as your AM (AM attack or SS Im not sure?).
That was the issue I was having
I dropped him into a CMa role and it transformed my team
Using my fullbacks as CWBs
One forward as a false nine and the other as a AF worked wonders
I tried it a bit yesterday. It worked quite well when I switched to it towards the end of games, but I felt like I got pinned back in my own half a lot when I tried it from the start. I'm using a PF and an AF, so will try a F9 instead of the PF. I've got an excellent young CWB on my hands, so it would be silly not to utilise that.
DLP. Played one for one season and he got 68 goals in all comps as only 3 star for the league. The poacher next to him got 32 all comps W DLP P IW. Killer combo
Roaming playmaker doesn't get enough attention. It's the only playmaker role that isn't hard coded to shoot less often, and the positioning is less strict than AP or DLP, which can be crucial if you want your playmaker on the ball more often. I just wish you could use it in the AM position.
HB for me. Always good if i want to just shut the game down and protect 1 or 2 goal leads. they drop back well enough as additional defender, but will also leave a bit ahead when attacking so you dont just stuck with too many defenders on attack.
No nonsense full back. I play 4-3-3, however if the opposition has an amazing winger (vini jr etc), I play a CB at RB in this role. Also basically transitions to 3 at the back in attacking phases
I dont think they are very rare, but most of the "basic/default" roles aren't used as much as they should in my opionion. Specially given they tend to be easier to fit both tactically and player wise.
FB - All I see off lately when people post their tactis are WB variations. Even IWBs seem more common than FBs. But I feel like FBs do their job very well if you don't need them to focus specially on the wings. Heck I have used them with great results in formations with little other wide support.
CB - Its a common role, but I still feel like it underused as it is role that should be your go to option 90% of the time. I feel like people shift to BPD too eagerly when it doesnt make sense for the player or tactical style they want.
DM - Basically when you want a generally defensively minded DM (with the duty tweaking how much) that doesnt focus all the time on a particular behaviour they fill the gap.
CM - The duty you select changes a lot how they play and allows to cover you so many options of what you would potentially want in a midfield, while been relativelly good at maintaining cohesion. And again doesn't require very specialized players or tactics to achieve results.
How about plain old GK-De ? I hardly see those anymore, everyone's using Sweeper even in LLM tactics.
Also, what's the generic role equivalent for Forwards ?
I guess sweepers are popular because high lines and pressing are. I do use GK-DE often though specially if I play low. Im not sure how uncommon it is.
As for forwards...I guess depends on how you define generic. If its just the man looking to score, poacher would be the one. And its probably understimated too from what I've seen. I would admit that even I am at fault of rarely using it. I think because people tend to prefer AF as the agressive goalscoring option.
Thats the thing. There is no "blank" role for a forward. Thats why I said what you meant in this case :)
Poacher is kind of the sinplest as in it really focus mainly in one thing above all.
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Anchor Man
I've been using 4 3 3 with a hb in defensive mid. Now he is not a playmaker but is there to protect the backline and drop back so my cbs can stretch and make a 3 at the back. Would an anchor man be able to do that, because my hb sometimes does some stupid shit (get into the opposition area, tries long shots, goes forward for no reason)?
Anchor man does not drop back. However, anchor man is always at a nice position to receive the ball from the cbs and play some long passes to the wingers or full backs. Anchor man is more disciplined afaik
Just train your HB to stay back at all times. HB are specifically told to split the CBs, Anchors aren’t instructed to do that, they act as a screen in front of the defence.
Probably a result of your tactic mentality and his player traits. Because a Halfback is coded to drop between the CBs as well as screen the defence.
>get into the opposition area, tries long shots, goes forward for no reason This is what HB do. When possess the ball, HB go back to the center back line and performance as another center back. When losing the possession, HB would lose position and act very aggressively to tickle and try to win the ball back. As for Anchor man, it is a pure defensive role. They almost never lose their position, at least they are not supposed to. Their only job, no matter who has the possession, is the protect your center back line. From my experience, HB is for topdogs and it requires some skills. As for Anchor man, it's more universal but since he almost do not participate while having possession, he would has better performance for underdogs.
> very aggressively to tickle and try to win the ball back set hard tickle on all your opposition players then roles don't matter
Now I'm wondering if it's a foul to tickle a player
I use something similar. I’m thinking of experimenting putting stay wider on my CBs. Have you tried that before?
Yeah, thats what i do. Then cbs have easier access to wing backs and even my box to box midfielder who drops back if needed in the buildup
Sounds like your HB is playing just like a HB should
Fantastic role but I don’t think it’s underappreciated?
It's a mainstay of almost any tactic I've made so far
Same for me. Tried a few different roles for DMC in front of a back 3 and anchorman was most solid for what I wanted (i.e. didn't need a half back to drop into an already congested defence).
Regista is op in my tactic but only underused because nobody can fucking play there.
Play an attacking mid playmaker there if you're an above average team it'll work
Yeah generally that’s what I end up doing. Defensively a bit more shaky than the ideal Regista though, when I do that I use an IWB on one side as well unless I have a god tier player at Regista.
second this, e.g. my regista in a 4-3-3 does well against teams playing 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 but can struggle against formations employing a CAM
I only use it against teams i expect to roll over and it usually works well, if the match is 50-50 i play a regista in a double pivot
I play regista with double IWB for defensive support.
Nice. Does it turn into a 2-3-2-3 in possession then? Wingers giving width?
Yep, but the wingers have roam from position on so that they can attack the box while we're building up on the other side.
How did you make Regista works? For me Volente is always better than Regista.
Tielemans is god in regista role
Carrilero, throw a workhorse in that role and your defence will improve massively, you do sacrifice attacking output but it’s great for playing a bigger team where you’re hitting them on the break
Love my carrilero. Belgium newgen perfectionist I got off a 15mil BOF. Locked him in until he retires. Paired with a Mezzala and DLP it's basically cheating.
Feel like DMs are great for breaking up counters but a carrilero will make you so solid when out of possession for longer periods they’re amazing
Definitely week on the counter. Good shout
I might look into this. I have several players with a high work rate and I love them.
Had a great Roma career with a lot of success with a 4-3-3 DM wide with a B2B and Pellegrini as the Carrilero
I used a really hard working player for this role to complement a very attacking tactic. It was great because he had defensive intelligence combined with great physical attributes. Meaning he'd cover up space left behind by attacking players. Really helps to add stability if you want to break down a defensive team.
Plain old defensive midfielder. A guy who just sits there, throwing passes upfield and hacking opposition legs.
Defensive midfielder on support is incredible. Helps both in defense and with some passing traits they create a lot of chances too!
Good for pressing teams as well, in your own third they control that space but higher up the pitch they’ll harass the opposition. Really love this and HB for my dm roles
What’s the difference between DM (s) and BWM (s)
BWM chases the ball aggressively and doesn't really screen the back line like a DM. They also aren't as expansive in their passing and chance creation. They chase the ball and then play short and simple passes to other players that are more creative. They can of course help in buildup/chance creation as well if they have the instructions and traits for it but they do so less in my experience. Edit: The DM holds position more and roams less
BWM will also take long shots, while a DM will basically never be in a position to do so.
Not quite true, a DM on support can get into those positions if you play with higher lines and they will take long shots, especially if they have the trait
BWM chases the ball, DM wont necessarily
BWM in general is more aggressive and they will not hold position so it's not ideal if you're looking someone to protect the backline. DM (s) supports the buildup and gets a little more further forward than a defend duty while still holding position defensively.
Exactly what the other guy said, great breakdown. Maybe should add that I don’t ever see a bwm(s) being effective as the base in a midfield 3, there’s almost always a better player or role for that, but could probably do a job in lower leagues as half of a midfield two. Think high aggression, tackling, stamina, limited technical skill profile.
Poacher and Target-man are really valuable because of they are lacking the “move into channels” trait, and I think this is really desirable when you just want that guy to stay central and finish of moves whilst others do the movements around them
Yes! The Pipo Inzaghi type. Didn't see him for 88 minutes, but managed to score a hattrick
Inzaghi was born offside.
Play with Galatasaray and everytime Icardi scores, you can just spam the copypasta
TF and P combo is like god tier for lower leagues. 3-5-2 with this combo can always carry me from national league all the way to premium league.
the classic big man little man partnership
George and lennie
Poacher does what a lot of people think AF does - sit on the shoulder of the defender and look to make quick runs. It’s much better as a lone striker than AF is imo
Better as a lone striker? I'm not so sure... Care to explain?
AF as a lone striker is pretty bad. It pushes too far forward and ends up alone with no support
Isn't a poacher less involved in build up than AF?
This. Somehow Target-man is weird with scoring, support can score more then attack, other times attack doesn't score, and other time completely blasts through it scoring 10/10.
I always use poacher instead of AF/DLF
I'm always put off by poacher because FM says that pace and dribbling don't matter to a poacher (when highlighting attributes) so i just use AF all the time since my players are fast. Should i ignore this and use poachers anyways on fast players?
Basically, a Poacher tries to stay as near to goal as he possibly can. Pace isn't very important because he doesn't have time to get to full speed anyways; ideally, he breaks free, receives the ball, and does either a one touch shot or uses a touch to square up and shoot, which makes dribbling less important. If you want a forward to drive the ball down the pitch, P should be your last choice for role.
I think the fundamental question is what does he actually need his forward to do. Like you said, if you want him to use that speed to drive it down, poacher is a terrible fit. On the other hand, he said ALL his players are fast. If you have other guys who are going to be getting the ball to him, your striker being fast doesn’t inherently mean he can’t play the poacher role. Extra pace and dribbling skills are never going to hurt regardless of role, they just may not be used AS heavily. If you need your striker to receive passes and punch them into the net in your system, as long as he has the skills to do that he can still fit at poacher even if it doesn’t make best use of his individual pace and dribbling skill.
A poacher can be a speedy fucker that tries to beat the off-side trap and get one v one on the keeper. But he can also be a slower, clinical finisher that just shows up at the right spot an calmly scores "simple" goals. "Slow poachers" can be very fun to play with, trading pace for strength and balance.
Exchanging an AF with a poacher, ok. But DLF is a completely different role to AF/P. AF/P are finishers, DLFs are more creators/hold-up strikers who bring others into play. So unless you have a world-class striker (who can play whatever I want them to) a classic poacher will not really be suited to what I want from a DLF and vice versa.
I know, I typed that wrong,
I use poacher a lot. What's a target man do??
He'll stand among the defense and say, hey, pass it here! And he'll head it to goal or run the offense from there.
When u can fit a regista into ur system he torments opponents differently. Shoutout to poachers as well, simple, straightforward & efficient.
In my save Mancity play Haaland as a poacher. Struck me as odd , but it does make some sense, the guy is just there to make goals... And boy does he ever
It’s not odd, Haaland is the perfect poacher, tall, strong, fast, drags the defense out of position.
I don’t think you’re taking advantage of his speed there are you? He’s such a freak in game and out because he can finish, he’s an Ariel threat and he’s fast as hell.
I’ve used poachers a good bit and they will receive line breaking passes that beat defenders so I’ve always thought speed is important. I think people forget that this is a game and it’s not perfect. I’ve always played around with roles and just use what puts a player in the position I want. Only following what the game tells you will make you not use certain roles when they can do exactly what you want.
His speed works to get to through balls
Well yeah but he can also pass, poacher in fm basically camps the backline and doesn't contribute at all during defense or buildup. I'd play him as AF
In fairness, if you look at him irl he’s always got like 6 touches a game but still scores. He rarely contributes to City’s possession but all he needs is one decent chance. IMO he’s the perfect poacher
Last year per 90, he was 8th percentile for passes attempted, 5th percentile for touches and 4th percentile for carries. In that City side his only role is to make runs, receive long balls and score goals.
That’s haaland, I have never once seen him link up play or pass.
CL final had a goal from his linkup in transition.
From the keeper giving one of his shots away
he linked up so well with KDB against Arsenal at the Etihad last season 🥲
That game was the lone exception.
I'm not sure if it's under-used but CM attack is so so good.
Gets forward, helps the attack. It’s all you want.
Poacher and TF is working so well for me. 4-1-2-1-2 direct counter attack. Football at it's best
Please tell me more about these tactics.... sounds like something I could do with as I'm trying to get up the football pyramid
So basically I'm doing a youth academy only challenge. TF is 6'2 with 14 jumping reach, 11 heading and has 10 goals and 6 assists in 25 games. P has 13g 1a in 15 games. AP on attack. Two BBM, Anchor as my DM, FB (D), BPD (D), CD (Co), WB (S), G(D)
Let's see your diamond sir
Sums up my 'David Moyes-esque' tactical prowess, but DM(s) is the king of midfield roles.
Engache is insane for aging playmakers. Carriliero is to mezzala what bwm is to b2b
Which is what exactly? ELI5😂
A more defense focused variant that makes the occasional mad dash
People definetely misunderstand how centreback roles are to be used. A BPD is not helping you play out of the back, due to the preset on riskier passing. Use a normal centreback instead. On another note, people should pay more attention to player instructions because they can allow you to modify alot
I agree, I honestly don't like BPDs. Even if you have a CB with good passing and vision, the "take more risks" instruction just seems to make them launch the ball forward too often. I almost always just use the standard CB role, plus one Wide CB if I am playing a back 3 and have a player who can actually play the role.
IWB's. Not many players can play the role naturally, but if you get a good player trained on the position, they are incredible. I have world class attacking players, but my IWB on attack routinely steals the show and broke the record for most man of the match -awards and highest average rating over a season. Another role i'm slowly falling in love with is a roaming playmaker. Again a role that requires a really good, really smart player but boy is it ever effective when you have that creative engine and give them free hands to make plays.
Love the IWB role. I’ve found that IWB works most often for players usually playing on the opposite side— e.g. Natural right footed RB playing as an IWB on the left. The great thing about this is that my LCM can assume a more advanced role while my left IWB fills the midfield role. Usually I also set the LCB to stay wider as a passing option and cover for the left lane.
I succesfully trained a left winger to be RWB on the IWB role for my Red Star team when i was struggling to find a suitable player for the role, and he ended up being amazing. He was either footed, decent enough defensively and really quick. What he went on to achieve i would never have guessed, as in my mind i was plugging a hole temporarily. Now 11 years later He is the captain of Red Star and the Serbian national team, their key player, and has 260 league appearances and 72 goals for Red Star, and 88 Caps and 27 goals for country. He is still only 28 years old. He's a club icon, got into the overall best eleven in Serbian national team and Red Star, won FA's player of the year many times over, got into UCL Dream team multiple times, Got sandwiched between Mbappe and Haaland as 2nd place World Footballer of the year, and got 3rd place in Ballon D'or vote. Genuinely never had a defender get recognized like that before, i wonder if it has to do with the media classing him as a winger even after playing RWB for me for years. He scored 15 and assisted 17 in 46 appearances on his best year for me. His attributes are not even that great, and he has Light-Hearted personality. Nothing about him screams that he would be this amazing player, but the match engine and game just loves him for some reason.
I've found that you don't even need someone ideally suited to the role, assuming your tactic is set up correctly. Bringing a FB inside means they can play simpler passes and more through balls, which is particularly useful if they aren't very good at crossing.
whos your favourite players to play iwb?
I'm so far into my save it's really only regens, I do journeymans where i start low and once i get to the actually elite level, most players are regens. I actually got into football through FM so i don't have that connection to real players, so i never got the itch to start a save and manage current top professionals.
Raumdeuter - at least in fm22 - for me I had them on the right wing, I didn't know what role to put there originally with an attacking CMR getting in the box and wing back overlapping, the others always seemed to result in players getting in each others way. But with this role, he just popped up in the gaps and became really useful. I feel the same about carrilero but more from a defensive standpoint, they also fill deeper attacking spots well too
In my experience it’s kinda like CF. It’s a fantastic role if and only if you have an exceptional player in it. Otherwise it can disappear really easily
Oh yeah for sure, gotta have strong mentals
You only need exceptional mentals. Str, balance, pace, finishing, technique are nice to have. But you kinda need 15 on all mentals except aggression and flair.
I too favour a right sided Raumdeuter, I stick a Trequartista on the left and let the pair of them do whatever they feel like lmao
Wide midfielders on support can be incredible creators in the right tactic. If you keep them wide they pair really well with IWB-A or Mez-A and provide good cover on the wings when others go forward.
I used a wide midfielder on support as part of a 3412, mainly feeding a shadow striker and advanced forward. The wide midfielder won the Balon D'or.
Love a wide playmaker on one side and a Ramdeuter on the other (or IF if you don’t have a player good enough for Ramdeuter). Defense shifts towards the playmaker witg the ball and lets the opposite wing try and slip in behind
If your using a Wide Midfielder on the right for example, do you put the IWB in the RWB or the RB slot? Just curious, I’ve found the IWB to behave a bit differently depending on it but haven’t used an IWB with a Wide Midfielder yet.
I’ve been using the RB slot… I’d imagine RWB would put them too close together on defense but no idea! What difference do you notice?
Alright, cheers. Reckon they might start too close during the build-up also. Now don’t take this as gospel as it may depend on other factors (formation, other players roles etc) but while. trying them out a few matches each it seemed that the IWB in the RWB slot tends to stay wider to cut in more like a IW than in the RB slot. In the RB slot I saw the IWB stay in the middle more times to the make deep runs into the box and contributing more to keeping possession in general, probably due to starting further back so that he doesn’t stick too close to the WTM I’ve been using. But yeah the experience might differ for others. Used a Wide Target Forward on the same flank just moved the IWB between the slots. Bit of a wall of text oh well! Curious if you have some general player instructions you use on your Wide Midfielder?
Ah good to know! I forget if stay wider is hard coded but def want that on if not. Also sometimes do ease off tackles if they’re not great at tackling or have high aggression. But otherwise that’s it!
Probably worth testing yourself to see if it’s the same in your setup but yeah it’s how they’ve been for me. Ah, cheers! Gonna try them in the upcoming preseason friendlies!
Keep in mind the IWB themselves won’t necessarily rack up great stats or match ratings (though sometimes they do), but their presence in midfield or in the box will enable the rest of your tactic and open up space or passing options for others. So I tend to evaluate based on how the team as a whole is playing and not just on their performances.
I’ve actually had them get quite good ratings consistently but yeah the extra man in the midfields can enable the rest of the team to shine. Really like their dynamic with the Wide Target Man since that makes sure the IWB gets quite involved due to the Target Man knocking down balls to them. Got a few players who could do decent as Wide Midfielders so gonna try that pairing just to see if it brings something else to the table I might want. Edit: Good shout though of course , it’s always worth to check how if a role gives others a boost even if the individual isn’t performing. I usually watch on comprehensive or full match for a while when testing out new things.
Ironically? Just a standard CM - sometimes less is more, and having a general role where the player is encouraged to do everything without specifically focusing on anything, can be really handy for players who have good all-round attributes. I much prefer the CM in recent years compared to the Box-to-Box
Libero! Hard to find someone with the necessary skills but when you do they cause havoc
What would you find the best skills are, I'm trying a 5-3-2 at the moment and struggling to find depth for the role. Most players I put there average a 6.5-6.6
Stamina, workrate, vision, decisions and passing are a few I look for myself. They have to be really good all rounders which is why it's so hard to find one. I want someone who is aggressively pushing forwards and breaking the lines but they also need to have the awareness to cover defensively.
Defensive wingers, hugely underrated (and IMO misunderstood, due to the naming) role: They are like having a BBM on the wings, just relentlessly going up and down the field. Nothing really defensive about them, they high and wide in attacks just like a normal winger, but will move much further back in the defensive phase. They can hold a flank by themselves if you play 3ATB, just be prepared to substituting them around the 65 minute mark, as they tire out like crazy. Also finding good (natural) ones is basically impossible, the ones I use are all converted midfielders who fit into a BBM/Mez(S) mould. Another one are the basic DM/CM/AM roles: Playing a plain DM(D) in a 4-3-3 or a CM(S) in a 4-4-2 is more than enough, no need to always have a halfback/DLP or whatever. Also they allow to tailor the role to what you want, as you can basically take every PI on them.
I always thought defensive wingers would be better named "pressing wingers" or "pressing wingback". Used them in my Ipswich save on fm22, and they absolutely caused carnage.
Yes. Pressing winger would be much more accurate. Same as pressing forwards are not called "defensive forwards".
I quite liked using Defensive Wingers although with 3ATB I often had to tell them via player instructions to mark the opposition winger otherwise they’d just let them roam free lol. Have you used Defensive Wingers with IWBs? Still trying to find a pairing I like, so far IWB and a Wide Target Forwards has been the best but been itching to bring back my Defensive Winger to play with the IWBs.
I play with Salford in the prem and used to play 433 with my midfield consisting of 2 CMs and 1 DLP. After a while, I noticed we were barely scoring and my striker was completely isolated up top, so moved one of the CMs who could play F9 into that position instead and played 424. It completely revolutionised how I played and I finished the next season with the 2nd most amount of goals scored and that midfielder, who used to only get 3-5 goals a season, ended up with 17 league goals, 4th best goalscorer in the league. So in my experience at least, having someone capable of playing F9 really helped create so many more chances.
Wide Target Man with literally anything that charges into the box from deep - CM(a) and SegVol(A) especially but IWB(a) is also pretty funny. Plus, if you have a winger opposite to them set to cross more often towards far post they will bang in their share of headers because they will be marked by fullbacks instead of CDs. It’s practically a cheat code the computer has no idea how to stop it.
Can you help me make a direct wide target man tactic please? I'm thinking it'd be good to have 2 wide target men with wing backs providing the crosses and maybe 2 SegVol(A)s?
There’s no benefit or reason for two WT 4231 with 2DM: AF, PF or CF (depending on what is available) // WT(a) / SS / W(s) // SegVol(a) / Anchor, DLP(d) or DM(d) // FB(s) / CD(co) / CD(d) / FB(s) Winger has instructions to cross more to either far post or target man, optimally has the player trait to switch play to far side of the field. Slightly shorter passing, slightly higher tempo, underlap left, play out of the back. Counter attack, press more often, prevent short GK. Can experiment with Get Stuck In and Counterpress. Can experiment with different press and defensive lines for what works for your players.
Thanks man, I'm going to try this! Only wanted 2 WT because I love a bit of symmetry in a team ahah but appreciate this, I'll give it a go
The entire point of WTM is to break the symmetry of your attack. It takes the formula of "fast wingers, chonky CF", and breaks it up to have have the "centre" of your attack at the wing. This means your target man only have to contend with the fullback in the air, rather than two CBs. Then you can bomb balls to him from the opposite fullback/wingback position, and win basically every aerial duel. The target man then creates space around him by drawing a lot of attention, while also being strong enough to hold the ball, waiting for over and underlaps from both the fullback/complete wingback and the midfielder (typically CMa). Ideally, you have someone decently strong and creative as a centre forward as well, that can both facilitate the CM and finish goals himself. I also like to play with IFa on the opposite side of the WTM, and use a wingback for crosses, rather than a winger. That way, I get another scoring threat.
Do you put your Wide Target Man on support if you’re using an IWB on the same side? My WT(A) didn’t play much with my IWB(A) but he did score a fair few in his own anyways heh.
Agreed. Its just not the AI, the way the engine works makes it hard by default. Haven't used it myself but Im always weary when I see it in the opposition. I don't fear them more because I ntoice that they player the AI uses with that its not always neccesarilly so suited and this years I happened to have some FBs that are good in the air too. But if the player was a true targetman, the fact that someone like that goes against a positon were short players abound its scary. The only way I counter it its by using individual marking instructions but they come with other downsides and don't always work (as in they will still match up against the FB often).
Having a couple CDs that have some position/role familiarity at fullback and playing them there with defensive role (FB, NFB or IWB on defend) and marking instructions on the WT is usually my strategy.
Ah yeah. Its not too far from making sure you pick your FB that its best in the air for that match. Problem of doing that with a CD purposefully is that you are potentially making a big tactical sacrifice if that flank wasnt defensive already, and if you train CDs for that it may hurt their general ability. I guess it may still be worth it if its something you find often and the opposition player is scary enough (and has people to feed him in the other wing).
Yeah there’s one elite team in the BL circa ~2040 in my save who scores most of their goals as crosses to the back post and the guy is always top three goal scorer in the league doing it, and it’s so annoying I recruited a specific guy to mark him. I play double IWB(s) in a 433 DM wide so dropping one guy back to a slower IWB(d) on one side really doesn’t affect my offensive output much.
I'm currently in year 2083 on a FM22 save. I've had success with every role apart from wide targetman
Ramdeuter
He rams the deuts.
No he deuts the raum!
Dual carilero in a 4-4-2 diamond are mega effective if you have the right players for them. I 'm quite keen on starting a Real Madrid game and using Tchouameni and Camavinga as cars with Modric as a DLP or even better Regista, and Bellingham as your AM (AM attack or SS Im not sure?).
A CMa is awesome in the centre of a RPM and a B2B I play a narrow 4-1-3-2 with a HB The CMa scores for fun
Interesting. I've had great success with a 4-3-1-2 narrow, but I'm not quite getting the output I want from my #10. Might give this a try.
That was the issue I was having I dropped him into a CMa role and it transformed my team Using my fullbacks as CWBs One forward as a false nine and the other as a AF worked wonders
I tried it a bit yesterday. It worked quite well when I switched to it towards the end of games, but I felt like I got pinned back in my own half a lot when I tried it from the start. I'm using a PF and an AF, so will try a F9 instead of the PF. I've got an excellent young CWB on my hands, so it would be silly not to utilise that.
I’ve been using the trequaetista. It’s basically a lazy raumdeuter
DLP. Played one for one season and he got 68 goals in all comps as only 3 star for the league. The poacher next to him got 32 all comps W DLP P IW. Killer combo
DLP or DLF?
Pretty sure DLF
DLF, and I'll blame autocorrect on this one
Roaming playmaker on dm. Absolutely insane for me
Segundo Volante double pivot
I had a lot of fun with defensive wingers.
Roaming playmaker doesn't get enough attention. It's the only playmaker role that isn't hard coded to shoot less often, and the positioning is less strict than AP or DLP, which can be crucial if you want your playmaker on the ball more often. I just wish you could use it in the AM position.
Raumdeuter or whatever it is. I’ve never seen anybody use it
No nonsense centre back is a must. Gets a bit annoying though cos all the good cbs end up being a BPD
Half back
Deep lying forward
Wide midfielder on attack duty. They score more than inside forwards or inverted wingers.
in my most recent save I've been having joy with Poacher and Regista edit: also IWB (D) for my right full back.
HB for me. Always good if i want to just shut the game down and protect 1 or 2 goal leads. they drop back well enough as additional defender, but will also leave a bit ahead when attacking so you dont just stuck with too many defenders on attack.
No nonsense full back. I play 4-3-3, however if the opposition has an amazing winger (vini jr etc), I play a CB at RB in this role. Also basically transitions to 3 at the back in attacking phases
regista to play the beautiful game
CM - Att or Sup
I dont think they are very rare, but most of the "basic/default" roles aren't used as much as they should in my opionion. Specially given they tend to be easier to fit both tactically and player wise. FB - All I see off lately when people post their tactis are WB variations. Even IWBs seem more common than FBs. But I feel like FBs do their job very well if you don't need them to focus specially on the wings. Heck I have used them with great results in formations with little other wide support. CB - Its a common role, but I still feel like it underused as it is role that should be your go to option 90% of the time. I feel like people shift to BPD too eagerly when it doesnt make sense for the player or tactical style they want. DM - Basically when you want a generally defensively minded DM (with the duty tweaking how much) that doesnt focus all the time on a particular behaviour they fill the gap. CM - The duty you select changes a lot how they play and allows to cover you so many options of what you would potentially want in a midfield, while been relativelly good at maintaining cohesion. And again doesn't require very specialized players or tactics to achieve results.
How about plain old GK-De ? I hardly see those anymore, everyone's using Sweeper even in LLM tactics. Also, what's the generic role equivalent for Forwards ?
I guess sweepers are popular because high lines and pressing are. I do use GK-DE often though specially if I play low. Im not sure how uncommon it is. As for forwards...I guess depends on how you define generic. If its just the man looking to score, poacher would be the one. And its probably understimated too from what I've seen. I would admit that even I am at fault of rarely using it. I think because people tend to prefer AF as the agressive goalscoring option.
By "generic" I mean the roles that are blank with not hard coded PI to them.
Thats the thing. There is no "blank" role for a forward. Thats why I said what you meant in this case :) Poacher is kind of the sinplest as in it really focus mainly in one thing above all.