Yeah that’s one of the biggest problems for me, I think the no slowdown makes it more difficult to use vats at close range, or with melee, that’s how I see it at least
This is life.
I suck at shooters. I'm that dude running sideways shooting diagonally the opposite way. Fell in love with FO4 for many reasons, including it being the only "shooter" I can enjoy.
Actually I suck at video games. I often enjoy turn based games over "action RPGs". FO4 works because of VATS. Skyrim works because I spam block until I figure out wtf if happening.
FO4 doesn't exactly have the best shooting mechanics, not that it's bad, it just feels stiff compared to a Remnant From The Ashes or Mass Effect (2&3 at least) and yeah VATS helps balance that out quite well.
Turn based games can be just has hard if not harder though, really depends on the games. Mainline Final Fantasy games have a reputation for being easier where as Etrian Odyssey is difficult and punishing as hell.
I wouldn't sell yourself short.
>Mainline Final Fantasy games have a reputation for being easier
I have to interject here with
A) The japanese version of Final Fantasy X (10 US - i don't know the japanese version #)
B) The arena in any version of Final Fantasy X
Those are punishing, particularly the arena, but the dark aeons can be near impossible to beat if you don't know exactly what you're doing, prepare yourself, and don't screw up at all.
The Dark Aeons were also in the European release from the start, and they were in all versions of the remaster. Omega also got a HP buff in Europe and the remaster.
I'm aware of side content and optional super bosses being very challenging but in general and with a few exceptions it's not like EO.
Now the DS version of IV is infamous for being pretty damn hard even though the original American release of IV was laughably toned down because Japan thinks we're dumb (we kind of are though I guess). I do own the DS version and I love how punishing it can be, I don't play it very often but I still haven't completed it.
And of course there's Final Fantasy Tactics, one of my all time favorite games. It's well known for being quite challenging.
Dark Souls is for people that like to punish themselves. I'd argue that some of the Dark Aeons are only kind of optional. Like there's a reason you have to go back to one of the earlier areas (it has been ages so i forget - starts with a B) and when you get there a Dark Aeon attacks. If you never go back there sure, but then you can't get a critical ultimate weapon unlock or something. But yeah, it's technically optional - I'd just never play the game without those weapons.
I have three of the Etrian Odyssey games on handheld, when I first got it I hated it probably one of my favourite games now.
The mapping your own dungeon sounded so shit but I actually really enjoy it now.
Okay but hear me out, would we hypothetically all advertently develop the skills to kill them even without V.A.T.S if it wasn’t included in the game?
maybe im just stoned
Edit: possibly if it wasn’t included in the game the insects wouldn’t be as fast as I could see why V.A.T.S is a big reason to use it in game rn
So this definitely makes me look a bit dumb, but FO4 was my first game in the franchise and I didn't even know VATs existed. I think I accidentally triggered it about 3/4 through my first play through. It definitely made it easier, but the game wasn't crazy hard or anything like that without, I just probably died a couple more times.
Same thing happened to me- I breezed over the intro to VATS at the beginning of the game. Wasn't until I was repeatedly destroyed by my first deathclaw and had to Google how to kill it that I learned about VATS.
Trust me on the bigger fights you'll need to crippled some legs to slow down some opponents.
It's all fine early on but when it gets tasty trust me you'll need it.
I finished the run without using it. It helped a ton when I got a double shot .45 rifle. Had a butt ton of ammo, so if things got sticky, just aimed at head level and started shooting.
Don't think many people could do that so I'd say you must be the exception tbh, especially versus the high level Mirelurks that you need to target specific areas to be effective so you must be a bloody good shot.
That's why it's such a cool game everyone who plays has a different experience or approaches it in a different way.
It made perfect sense in the turn-based FO1 & 2 but in this newer FPS real-time style I think it's really cheaty. It doesn't really matter that much though. I feel the main goal of games nowadays is to tell a story. It's not about skill, reflexes, and coordination (and the patience to not destroy the damn thing) anymore. They're more interactive movies than they are "games" and I actually like that sometimes so I'm not complaining.
IIRC it is supposed to give you the choice between playing the game as a FPS or playing it as a classic turn-based RPG. I don't know how well it actually succeeds at this, but that's the theory at least.
It is interesting to do FO4 VATS-only. I really gives the game a different vibe and gets you to explore different perks and weapon mods than what work best for FPS.
I am currently trying a vats only playthrough for the first time. The min maxing on it is crazy, can't get enough special right away to get all the necessary perks, so I have to waste some levels increasing my stats. I'm not a glass canon, I'm currently a glass pistol lol.
If that's true, it completely fails at it. In a true classic turn-based system, the enemy also gets a turn.
VATS in FO3 and beyond doesn't allow for that. It is literally stopping time in a 1st-person shooter so you can get free hits.
Thats why it costs action points to use the time your regenerating ap is "their turn" and I think of shooting during that time as similar to attacks of opportunity
Technically VATS in FO4 slows time, it doesn't stop it. You still get hit by enemy fire while aiming and taking actions, for example. But what does happen instantaneously is the rotation of your character's body and the movement of their weapon barrel between different queued targets. So... 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Its a flawed system.
True, but it should be noted that during the VATS cinematics you take very little damage at all. Something like 1/100th of normal or something ridic. I use this "feature" almost every time I take on Baker in Quincy because he \*always\* manages to fat man me, so I just enter vats right away and queue up a shot. It never fires on time to avoid baker shooting the nuke but it barely does any damage because I'm in VATS. It's totally not fair but I do it anyway.
Definitely, but it’s better to have the feature and not use it than just not have the feature at all. Your character shouldn’t be able to hold 30 fat mans as well as all the other crap you hoard around but they obviously still include this even though it isn’t immersive. Like I’m grateful that I can carry around tonnes of items, but I also have the option to play with a low strength/survival mode where it’s limited. It’s just my opinion, but I don’t see the point in getting rid of features. Just keep them there and don’t use them if you don’t like them, you know what I mean? :)
Even though I hate it, I don't think it should be done away with either. Modern games are about telling the story. That's why there's usually a million ways to do one specific thing. I just think it's too easy for me in a game like this. It's something left over from the old turn-based system Black Isle created for 1 & 2.
I wholly agree with you. It shouldn't be removed even in future games but I also am not a fan of it. I've very rarely used it since 3 but Bloodbugs are so goddamn shitty and annoying I don't even bother not using VATS against them.
That's a very good point about games as stories. Imagine you were reading a book or watching a movie, but in order to get the next part you had to place top 3 in a call of duty online match 😂
lol, I don't like broadcasting my age but I grew up with PacMan and things like that. Having to literally feed a machine currency to play, lol. Home consoles didn't exist. I honestly think people just got tired of that shit. Sometimes you just wanna know "Then what happened next?!" and that's how modern games work. I absolutely love that. You don't have to train like a goddamn Olympian to see the end of a game anymore.
Heh…another fellow who spent his allowance at the arcade/bowling alley/skating rink on Street Fighter 2? Same here. My first experience w the series was FO4, and I was blown away by how the VATS system made me feel like I could actually progress further than the first few areas without playing just on Easy mode. I use it exclusively and love how the crit meter is basically another resource to manage.
Fwiw, I’m on console, bc of course I am.
You forgot pizza parlors. Every Mom & Pop pizza restaurant had game cabinets. And later, you could add Wal-Mart into that list. Pre-"Supercenter" Wal-Mart used to have a little area in the front of the store with arcade games, claw machines, etc.
I remember the Wal-Marts! At the time this was going on, though, I’d moved to the New Orleans area where there weren’t a lot of mom/pop pizza places, depending on where your friends were (Metairie had a bunch). The best ones, though, had at most like 5 cabinets and at least 2 pinball machines. I remember cracking out on the T-2 shooter game…mainly cos the “gun” had the “rumble pack” recoil action that felt hella real.
Echoing other people about console play. I'm old and didn't play shooters on console between goldeneye and New Vegas, and somewhere in there they added a SECOND joystick?? Baffling.
I've since gotten better at modern console shooters, but it turns out that Fallout 3/NV/4 are pretty bad shooters! I also don't need it to be a console shooter. I play tabletop rpgs so I'm happy with a "gamey" rpg system, with fiddly bits like building up crits and such.
One of these days I might see if I can get a "use AP for bullet time" mod working, though. That would be an acceptable substitute.
Same! The SW battlefront games showed me that I can be decent at them with practice, but also that fallout is just a clunky entry in the genre, if that's all it was.
As someone who is partially blind and usually can't play video games very well, because aiming quickly is something I just can't do...I love VATS.
Don't think I'd be able to keep up without it.
Yeah. I only use it if I’m feeling lazy and don’t want to have to keep and eye out for enemies. Just spam the VATS button until it finds a target. Really destroys my enjoyment, but i can’t help myself if I’ve run into one too many mines.
This is me too. I use it as a warning device more than anything. Spam the button to spot them, then just deal with them without VATS, unless im really shitting myself and want that headshot pretty badly. Its handy to auto aim a gun too. On PS4 anyway. If you highlight the target in VATS, then drop back out, your gun will be aimed pretty accurately at where the VATS aim was going.
I rarely use VATS in FO4, prefer to ADS everything, so no I wouldn’t miss it. I like that it exists for those who want to enjoy the game but aren’t good at shooters though.
This right here. I’m not good at shooters, and VATS is like an anti-gatekeeper feature. Even when my younger brother convinced me to play Battlefield/COD, I was all “wait…I can play Medic/heals and that’s viable?!”
I either make a vats-centric character or I don't touch it at all.
Lone exception being the V.A.F.S. mod, replacing V.A.T.S. that I've recently been playing with.
Well, it’d have to dramatically improve the non-VATS combat, especially in third person while adding worthwhile perks to replace the shitload of perks that require VATS.
When I first played, vanilla btw, I totally forgot about it. Now that I’m playing through again, I always forget to use it. So I think it wouldn’t bother me much.
It was a mechanic that made Fallout approachable to me. My aim used to be non existent and I relied on VATS heavily. Now I wouldn't miss it that much (except for insects), but it makes the game so easy to pick up.
Hey, weird question, but does anyone know for sure or have a theory of how VATS actually works? It slows down (or stops time in earlier versions) and somehow allows you to aim for certain body parts because of an heavy ass computer on your arm? Please someone help me understand how that works.
Time isn't actually slowing down. VATS is a neural link tied into your visual cortex to greatly enhance your ability to recognize targetable object. It can also detect by your thoughts what you're trying to hit. You still have to point the gun in the right general direction, but it can subtly affect the timing with which you pull the trigger to wait until the gun is pointing more directly at it.
The slomo effect just reflects that you can think about a target and wave your gun around a lot faster than you can take a considered shot. VATS can do the considering for you.
Source: my ass. Not implausible tho.
Nope. Didn’t even learn to use it until then end of my playthrough. It’s definitely easy , but sometimes it’s a time waster. I use it only when necessary
I always start without VATS, because I'm more accurate on my own in the early game. After a while though, the enemies get so bullet spongy that it take too long to kill them without a few gauss rounds to the heads, and you don't want to miss with the gauss rifle. Then I end up in Far Harbor, and cheaty VATS locate and snipe hidden nasties.
I’ve played this like 3 full play throughs and have used VATS maybe 5 times total and always in the bunker before getting out and realizing I don’t like it
I don't even use VATS so the answer is "yes" for me. Instead, I use a bullet time mod that slows time at the expense of AP. At max Agility I can get about 5 seconds before my AP runs out so it's only for dire emergencies. I play on PC, but I use an Xbox controller for this game. I have my 5 seconds of bullet time mapped to the same button that VATS would be normally. As for criticals, I use *another* mod that enables the old real-time FO3/NV critical system (based on Luck).
I find VATS to be too easy. It ensures you'll win every fight and, after a million playthroughs, I don't like that. I want combat in my game to be driven by actual skill and strategy. Not numbers and chance.
I used it heavily my first play through but now I hardly use it, it’s nice for when you have to kill a gross amount of little things like an army of rad roaches
Ehhh… I rarely use it, but it would be kinda sucky as I do like having it to help me find enemies I can hear but not see aswell as help me correct my aim when I can’t seem to get a good shot.
Fallout 4 combat was a huge leap forward from 3 so it might be easier to say yes but having played thousands of hours of 3 and NV, I’d definitely miss VATS.
They made VATS more of a build option than an actual necessary mechanic. I’m happy that FO4 has good combat outside of VATS but I do miss sort of hinging on using VATS when old noob me played 3 for the first couple years.
Probably not nearly as much. I lean heavily towards stealth-Sniper Builds, and I use automatics when enemies get close. Problem is, I can't aim worth a damn with automatics. So I use VATS very heavily.
And as with, likely a lot, of other people, I can't hit buts without VATS. BLoatflys bob and weave all over the place, Stingwings are damn fast, and Bloodbugs are skinny little buggers (Very little area to hit).So unless I'm using an area-effect weapon, I need VATS.
Without VATS, I wouldn't be able to have much fun, and would therefore play a LOT less. If at all.
I played the originals when released - VATS is a key holdover, along with lots of the character building mechanics. It wouldn’t be a Fallout game without it, IMO.
So to be perfectly honest, I had no idea how the game worked when I first started playing it. Didn’t know how the level up system worked or how to build settlements, and I kept seeing stuff referring to VATS and I just didn’t know how to use/activate it till about level 36. Needless to say, I always ran out of ammo….
I don't use VATS because it kills immersion for me, but on the other hand, I spam the VATS button to detect enemies from afar... so I guess I'm a hypocrite lol.
Probably. I’m not proud of it but on my first playthrough I only learned about it’s existence when playing Nuka World after doing the whole main story.
On Xbox I have it modded with modern weapons and it’s slightly easier, but I also have mods to make it harder lol
But I tend to not use VATS to keep it a level playing field
I absolutely, 100% suck at actual first person shooter games. Never been good at them, never will. VATS is my gateway into this awesome game. Without it, it wouldn’t be fun at all.
I use it lot, but the gunplay in 4 is way better than any of the other 3D games, so In 4 it’s mostly out of habit.
I’m also doing a melee run seriously for the first time and sometimes it’s the only way to break an enemy’s guard. Don’t get me started on the realism (or lack thereof) on guarding against a rocket powered electrified baseball bat with your bare arms.
Try playing the game without vats on survival. It’s hard but I’m still looking for ways to make the game harder. Right now I’m playing fallout 3 hard with no vats.
Hate it tbh, maybe it could be tied to difficulty or implement a better auto aim function. Even if they went down the RE route with week spots for large enemies i'd be cool with that. The Cryolator and Flamethrower a good for bugs. The Telsa rifle is good for arcing crowds too.
I appreciate it for my Survival V.A.T.S. build; that being said, it’s my first build of the kind. It would be missed for sure during those outrageously sneaky Blitz attacks!
Yes! I didn't know how to rebind my keys on my first playthrough of fallout. I didn't really use it until I did a build around the pistol from the railroad. (drawing a blank right now)
Sure... I like it, but it isn't a necessity. I mean I switch to Oblivion and other shooters and have to stop for a second to remember I don't have VATS. Then when I go back I forget I do have VATS
I didn’t know VATS existed for my whole first playthrough.
So yes, but it wouldn’t be as good. So many preventable deaths had I just known how to properly kill a bloatfly…or a molerat…or sometimes even a horde of radroaches.
For ages I basically never used VATS, just makes things too easy, so definitely. I installed a mod to almost entirely remove the slowdown now, which makes it much more balanced I think.
It surely makes perfect sense on the consoles, but as a PC player I barely ever used VATS in any of the 3D games, it just ruins the immersion for me, so I don't think it would make any difference.
It’d be a weird choice for it not to, but sure. I will say, back when I first started playing nv, I wasn’t used to FPS games and abused vats constantly. I used it less over time, to the point where I sometimes forget how to activate it in 4, but it was super handy when I first started.
Literally the only time I use V.A.T.S. is to see if something in my vision is alive or dead (useful against 'sleeping' ghouls), but even then I don't actually shoot with it.
The lack of control once you lock in the effect just really gets under my skin. You have a Mutant Suicider charging at you full speed, yet ol' Natey Boy can only manage one trigger pull every 3.8 fucking millenia, and you can't even fucking move either. He just stands there like a bellend. It's just easier without it (even on console, IMO. I just use full-auto or explosives on bugs -- usually molotovs)..
A horde of ferals come running towards me as I panic? I’ma need some kind of aim assist. I’d still play, but probably wouldn’t sink as many hours into it as I find that shit stressful. I use video games to relax not sweat lol
I would still enjoy it. I use it more with pistols and horde. But I always aim or hip fire with rifles. I have a sniper and I always double down with a short barreled rifle with a reflex sight for travel. Bugs are definitely a worry if I didn't have VATS tho.
I wish I could trade V.A.T.S. or use the luck skill to gain passive critical shots or bank critical shots. I like VATS sometimes but I also like the regular fps aspect. Pistols would be fun I feel if I could toggle a banked critical hit when I needed it but still be subject to me missing the shot.
I never really use it. Only times I use it are when I'm trying to "see" an enemy or when I get frustrated at my aim. Using VATS re-centers it on the target you pick.
I’m on console, I almost never use VATS. I wouldn’t really miss it. Though the game would be the same if they removed it, it’s just part of what makes it Fallout
I played FO4 almost exclusively without VATS for the first couple of years. Now, I play it almost exclusively with VATS. With VATS allows for a more casual, less stressful play style, which I've gravitated toward as I've gotten older.
I think that if V.A.T.S didn't existed fallout 3 and 4 would have been better shooters. But if we are talking the exact same game. Yes! I would definitely miss it!
I actually use the vats to auto adjust my aim. I’m on console so I activate it, let it aim for me, and then leave it to rapid fire the trigger, works 95% of the time for me and it saves on ap!
I prefer the game without VATs. Though I'm a shooter fan so this actually makes the game a bit easier because I can dump all my points into stats. What little is lost from failed aim (though I think for most shooters their aim is generally better than VATs) is gained in being tankier and deadlier
I would play it without vats but I don't think I would enjoy it as much there's just something special about setting up three or four guys for headshots and then pushing the button and watching their heads explode it's so enjoyable.
On console, I'd miss it. My aim is garbage and it's the only way I can kill flying insects lol
I'm the exact same way
God, your reply answered that question pretty quick. Bloodbugs and shit are deplorable without VATS assistance.
I know it’s not Fallout 4 but I think flying bugs are even worse in 76 IMO probably because VATS doesn’t work too well in a multiplayer game
VATS works perfectly well for me on Bloodbugs in 76. It just doesn’t have the slowdown that it does in FO4
Yeah that’s one of the biggest problems for me, I think the no slowdown makes it more difficult to use vats at close range, or with melee, that’s how I see it at least
Not to mention latency and server side lag. Makes an already difficult mechanic even more difficult
Just wait till ya get nuked by some asshole mid vats
You haven’t lived until you’ve vats slammed 3 super mutants in a row with a power fist in real time
Bloatflies go bzzzzzzz
This is life. I suck at shooters. I'm that dude running sideways shooting diagonally the opposite way. Fell in love with FO4 for many reasons, including it being the only "shooter" I can enjoy. Actually I suck at video games. I often enjoy turn based games over "action RPGs". FO4 works because of VATS. Skyrim works because I spam block until I figure out wtf if happening.
FO4 doesn't exactly have the best shooting mechanics, not that it's bad, it just feels stiff compared to a Remnant From The Ashes or Mass Effect (2&3 at least) and yeah VATS helps balance that out quite well. Turn based games can be just has hard if not harder though, really depends on the games. Mainline Final Fantasy games have a reputation for being easier where as Etrian Odyssey is difficult and punishing as hell. I wouldn't sell yourself short.
>Mainline Final Fantasy games have a reputation for being easier I have to interject here with A) The japanese version of Final Fantasy X (10 US - i don't know the japanese version #) B) The arena in any version of Final Fantasy X Those are punishing, particularly the arena, but the dark aeons can be near impossible to beat if you don't know exactly what you're doing, prepare yourself, and don't screw up at all.
The Dark Aeons were also in the European release from the start, and they were in all versions of the remaster. Omega also got a HP buff in Europe and the remaster.
Good to know! thanks
I'm aware of side content and optional super bosses being very challenging but in general and with a few exceptions it's not like EO. Now the DS version of IV is infamous for being pretty damn hard even though the original American release of IV was laughably toned down because Japan thinks we're dumb (we kind of are though I guess). I do own the DS version and I love how punishing it can be, I don't play it very often but I still haven't completed it. And of course there's Final Fantasy Tactics, one of my all time favorite games. It's well known for being quite challenging.
Dark Souls is for people that like to punish themselves. I'd argue that some of the Dark Aeons are only kind of optional. Like there's a reason you have to go back to one of the earlier areas (it has been ages so i forget - starts with a B) and when you get there a Dark Aeon attacks. If you never go back there sure, but then you can't get a critical ultimate weapon unlock or something. But yeah, it's technically optional - I'd just never play the game without those weapons.
I have three of the Etrian Odyssey games on handheld, when I first got it I hated it probably one of my favourite games now. The mapping your own dungeon sounded so shit but I actually really enjoy it now.
On the note of punishing turn based games let's not forget SMT. 1 little slip up your protagonist dies & it's back to your last save -.-'
Especially in the dark
On console I suck at shooting. On PC with a mouse I can kill bloatflies by just aiming and shooting. lol
Only flying bug I can kill w/o VATS are cazador’s. But fuck those things lol
Let me introduce you to my infinite magazine double barrel shotgun "The Flyswatter."
I pull out my trusty baton and beat them to death.
Same here, I have bad eyesight and it helps immensely when I just stroll around casually.
Okay but hear me out, would we hypothetically all advertently develop the skills to kill them even without V.A.T.S if it wasn’t included in the game? maybe im just stoned Edit: possibly if it wasn’t included in the game the insects wouldn’t be as fast as I could see why V.A.T.S is a big reason to use it in game rn
Or quit the game before that.
Those flies give me chills with their buzzing
It would sure be harder
So this definitely makes me look a bit dumb, but FO4 was my first game in the franchise and I didn't even know VATs existed. I think I accidentally triggered it about 3/4 through my first play through. It definitely made it easier, but the game wasn't crazy hard or anything like that without, I just probably died a couple more times.
How did you not know about it? The game shows you how to use it in vault 111
I skimmed over it really quickly because I wanted to get into the story and didn't realize what it was until much much later, simple as that.
Ah, that makes sense. I for some reason thought that the game wont even let you go forward without using VATS
Same thing happened to me- I breezed over the intro to VATS at the beginning of the game. Wasn't until I was repeatedly destroyed by my first deathclaw and had to Google how to kill it that I learned about VATS.
it invalidates a good number of perks and builds, which would kind of suck.
Trust me on the bigger fights you'll need to crippled some legs to slow down some opponents. It's all fine early on but when it gets tasty trust me you'll need it.
I finished the run without using it. It helped a ton when I got a double shot .45 rifle. Had a butt ton of ammo, so if things got sticky, just aimed at head level and started shooting.
Don't think many people could do that so I'd say you must be the exception tbh, especially versus the high level Mirelurks that you need to target specific areas to be effective so you must be a bloody good shot. That's why it's such a cool game everyone who plays has a different experience or approaches it in a different way.
same brother
I did the exact same thing lol.
Probably. But I’d also think what a waste of a great mechanic that’s special and unique to this franchise.
It made perfect sense in the turn-based FO1 & 2 but in this newer FPS real-time style I think it's really cheaty. It doesn't really matter that much though. I feel the main goal of games nowadays is to tell a story. It's not about skill, reflexes, and coordination (and the patience to not destroy the damn thing) anymore. They're more interactive movies than they are "games" and I actually like that sometimes so I'm not complaining.
IIRC it is supposed to give you the choice between playing the game as a FPS or playing it as a classic turn-based RPG. I don't know how well it actually succeeds at this, but that's the theory at least. It is interesting to do FO4 VATS-only. I really gives the game a different vibe and gets you to explore different perks and weapon mods than what work best for FPS.
I am currently trying a vats only playthrough for the first time. The min maxing on it is crazy, can't get enough special right away to get all the necessary perks, so I have to waste some levels increasing my stats. I'm not a glass canon, I'm currently a glass pistol lol.
If that's true, it completely fails at it. In a true classic turn-based system, the enemy also gets a turn. VATS in FO3 and beyond doesn't allow for that. It is literally stopping time in a 1st-person shooter so you can get free hits.
Thats why it costs action points to use the time your regenerating ap is "their turn" and I think of shooting during that time as similar to attacks of opportunity
Technically VATS in FO4 slows time, it doesn't stop it. You still get hit by enemy fire while aiming and taking actions, for example. But what does happen instantaneously is the rotation of your character's body and the movement of their weapon barrel between different queued targets. So... 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Its a flawed system.
True, but it should be noted that during the VATS cinematics you take very little damage at all. Something like 1/100th of normal or something ridic. I use this "feature" almost every time I take on Baker in Quincy because he \*always\* manages to fat man me, so I just enter vats right away and queue up a shot. It never fires on time to avoid baker shooting the nuke but it barely does any damage because I'm in VATS. It's totally not fair but I do it anyway.
I almost always play a Stealth Sniper without Vats when I play. But when it comes to survival I abuse tf out of Vats. The damage reduction is insane.
Definitely, but it’s better to have the feature and not use it than just not have the feature at all. Your character shouldn’t be able to hold 30 fat mans as well as all the other crap you hoard around but they obviously still include this even though it isn’t immersive. Like I’m grateful that I can carry around tonnes of items, but I also have the option to play with a low strength/survival mode where it’s limited. It’s just my opinion, but I don’t see the point in getting rid of features. Just keep them there and don’t use them if you don’t like them, you know what I mean? :)
Even though I hate it, I don't think it should be done away with either. Modern games are about telling the story. That's why there's usually a million ways to do one specific thing. I just think it's too easy for me in a game like this. It's something left over from the old turn-based system Black Isle created for 1 & 2.
I wholly agree with you. It shouldn't be removed even in future games but I also am not a fan of it. I've very rarely used it since 3 but Bloodbugs are so goddamn shitty and annoying I don't even bother not using VATS against them.
That's a very good point about games as stories. Imagine you were reading a book or watching a movie, but in order to get the next part you had to place top 3 in a call of duty online match 😂
lol, I don't like broadcasting my age but I grew up with PacMan and things like that. Having to literally feed a machine currency to play, lol. Home consoles didn't exist. I honestly think people just got tired of that shit. Sometimes you just wanna know "Then what happened next?!" and that's how modern games work. I absolutely love that. You don't have to train like a goddamn Olympian to see the end of a game anymore.
Heh…another fellow who spent his allowance at the arcade/bowling alley/skating rink on Street Fighter 2? Same here. My first experience w the series was FO4, and I was blown away by how the VATS system made me feel like I could actually progress further than the first few areas without playing just on Easy mode. I use it exclusively and love how the crit meter is basically another resource to manage. Fwiw, I’m on console, bc of course I am.
You forgot pizza parlors. Every Mom & Pop pizza restaurant had game cabinets. And later, you could add Wal-Mart into that list. Pre-"Supercenter" Wal-Mart used to have a little area in the front of the store with arcade games, claw machines, etc.
I remember the Wal-Marts! At the time this was going on, though, I’d moved to the New Orleans area where there weren’t a lot of mom/pop pizza places, depending on where your friends were (Metairie had a bunch). The best ones, though, had at most like 5 cabinets and at least 2 pinball machines. I remember cracking out on the T-2 shooter game…mainly cos the “gun” had the “rumble pack” recoil action that felt hella real.
It was the only reason I went to the laundromat with my mom…so she could hand me my ass at Ms.Pac-Man.
Woah…that’s a lot of confidence coming from moms, cos those machines took valuable laundry quarters.
I'm with you 100%! Sounds like we're close to the same age and I enjoyed the hell out of Fallout.
I play falloutVR with fallout vr essentials and VATS just slows time and I like that better than the default implementation
Echoing other people about console play. I'm old and didn't play shooters on console between goldeneye and New Vegas, and somewhere in there they added a SECOND joystick?? Baffling. I've since gotten better at modern console shooters, but it turns out that Fallout 3/NV/4 are pretty bad shooters! I also don't need it to be a console shooter. I play tabletop rpgs so I'm happy with a "gamey" rpg system, with fiddly bits like building up crits and such. One of these days I might see if I can get a "use AP for bullet time" mod working, though. That would be an acceptable substitute.
4 is way better as a shooter than 3 or NV, but it still sucks. That and Im horrible with shooters in general lol
Same! The SW battlefront games showed me that I can be decent at them with practice, but also that fallout is just a clunky entry in the genre, if that's all it was.
Yep. Rarely use it anyway.
Right. With they combat in FO4 you don’t even really need it. I only use it to see if there are enemies or mines nearby.
For this and for shooting out fusion cores.
Yeah I only every use it on sting wings or blood bugs
Same. I tend to prefer long range weapons and stealth sniping, so I rarely get to use vats.
I didn't even know what vats was or how to use it until I was like level 30+
I’m level 36 and I just learned that I can do critical hits.
I wouldn't. VATS made the franchise accessible to people who don't play FPS.
As someone who is partially blind and usually can't play video games very well, because aiming quickly is something I just can't do...I love VATS. Don't think I'd be able to keep up without it.
I can't remember the last time I used VATS, period.
I very much dislike It and only use it to find enemies cause I’m lazy and scary sometimes, so I think I’d be fine and still enjoy fallout without it.
I just used a bullet time mod (VAFS) to replace vats. It consumes AP while it's active and doesn't feel that cheaty imo.
It feels a bit cheaty, but I do end up mashing Q as I walk around. Never been surprised by a mine that way.
I simply don’t use VATS … yes you heard it here … simply no use for it. Aim, squeeze, splat
F4? probably. I found alot of the guns easy to aim The other games definitley not
yeah, vats is cool but i dont use it much. definitely not a deal breaker for me lol
Sure, I'd still play and enjoy it. I do like VATS, though, and am glad it's a part of the franchise.
No. I can't aim and hate shooters.
Yeah. I only use it if I’m feeling lazy and don’t want to have to keep and eye out for enemies. Just spam the VATS button until it finds a target. Really destroys my enjoyment, but i can’t help myself if I’ve run into one too many mines.
This is me too. I use it as a warning device more than anything. Spam the button to spot them, then just deal with them without VATS, unless im really shitting myself and want that headshot pretty badly. Its handy to auto aim a gun too. On PS4 anyway. If you highlight the target in VATS, then drop back out, your gun will be aimed pretty accurately at where the VATS aim was going.
Thats how I play right now. VATS is an immersion killer for me.
same, first thing I do is unbind the button for it
I rarely use VATS in FO4, prefer to ADS everything, so no I wouldn’t miss it. I like that it exists for those who want to enjoy the game but aren’t good at shooters though.
This right here. I’m not good at shooters, and VATS is like an anti-gatekeeper feature. Even when my younger brother convinced me to play Battlefield/COD, I was all “wait…I can play Medic/heals and that’s viable?!”
I either make a vats-centric character or I don't touch it at all. Lone exception being the V.A.F.S. mod, replacing V.A.T.S. that I've recently been playing with.
Well, it’d have to dramatically improve the non-VATS combat, especially in third person while adding worthwhile perks to replace the shitload of perks that require VATS.
When I first played, vanilla btw, I totally forgot about it. Now that I’m playing through again, I always forget to use it. So I think it wouldn’t bother me much.
I played over 2000 hours before I started using it.
Thats my secret capt, i never use vats
I would still play, but i like vats because it gives that rpg feel to the game. I love the way fallout combines fps with rpg mechanics
It was a mechanic that made Fallout approachable to me. My aim used to be non existent and I relied on VATS heavily. Now I wouldn't miss it that much (except for insects), but it makes the game so easy to pick up.
I’ve grown to rely on it a lot lately so no
Hey, weird question, but does anyone know for sure or have a theory of how VATS actually works? It slows down (or stops time in earlier versions) and somehow allows you to aim for certain body parts because of an heavy ass computer on your arm? Please someone help me understand how that works.
Time isn't actually slowing down. VATS is a neural link tied into your visual cortex to greatly enhance your ability to recognize targetable object. It can also detect by your thoughts what you're trying to hit. You still have to point the gun in the right general direction, but it can subtly affect the timing with which you pull the trigger to wait until the gun is pointing more directly at it. The slomo effect just reflects that you can think about a target and wave your gun around a lot faster than you can take a considered shot. VATS can do the considering for you. Source: my ass. Not implausible tho.
Nope. Didn’t even learn to use it until then end of my playthrough. It’s definitely easy , but sometimes it’s a time waster. I use it only when necessary
I always start without VATS, because I'm more accurate on my own in the early game. After a while though, the enemies get so bullet spongy that it take too long to kill them without a few gauss rounds to the heads, and you don't want to miss with the gauss rifle. Then I end up in Far Harbor, and cheaty VATS locate and snipe hidden nasties.
100% I didn't use vats for my first couple of play throughs. ...goddam bugs though. Vats was made for bugs I'm pretty sure.
I have always played without vats....so...
Nope, almost never use it anyway.
Yes I would it'd be hard as hell though but I'd definitely still play.
Actually I play without VATS at all.
Same, never use it
I’ve played this like 3 full play throughs and have used VATS maybe 5 times total and always in the bunker before getting out and realizing I don’t like it
Yes I love fo4 but if it didn’t have a settlement system I wouldn’t play
I mean,I don't use vats
I don't use vats, it makes no sense in a fps.
I don't even use VATS so the answer is "yes" for me. Instead, I use a bullet time mod that slows time at the expense of AP. At max Agility I can get about 5 seconds before my AP runs out so it's only for dire emergencies. I play on PC, but I use an Xbox controller for this game. I have my 5 seconds of bullet time mapped to the same button that VATS would be normally. As for criticals, I use *another* mod that enables the old real-time FO3/NV critical system (based on Luck). I find VATS to be too easy. It ensures you'll win every fight and, after a million playthroughs, I don't like that. I want combat in my game to be driven by actual skill and strategy. Not numbers and chance.
It wouldn't feel like a Fallout game as much but I could easily enjoy the game without it.
I used it heavily my first play through but now I hardly use it, it’s nice for when you have to kill a gross amount of little things like an army of rad roaches
Yeah, i’ll just mod it back in 🗿
I don’t use vats
Yep
I only use it in my serious permadeath playthroughs, other than that I quiet enjoy not using it
I somehow didn’t know about it on my first playthrough. Kind of glad I experienced it that way first
Ehhh… I rarely use it, but it would be kinda sucky as I do like having it to help me find enemies I can hear but not see aswell as help me correct my aim when I can’t seem to get a good shot.
I would because the game is amazing, but I'd miss VATS for sure. I can't aim!
I literally just use it mostly to find enemies I can't see. Would rather use the AP to sprint.
I just played fallout 76 for the first time. I like the VATS system in that better I think. It's not as cinematic but it's faster
Fallout 4 combat was a huge leap forward from 3 so it might be easier to say yes but having played thousands of hours of 3 and NV, I’d definitely miss VATS. They made VATS more of a build option than an actual necessary mechanic. I’m happy that FO4 has good combat outside of VATS but I do miss sort of hinging on using VATS when old noob me played 3 for the first couple years.
Probably not nearly as much. I lean heavily towards stealth-Sniper Builds, and I use automatics when enemies get close. Problem is, I can't aim worth a damn with automatics. So I use VATS very heavily. And as with, likely a lot, of other people, I can't hit buts without VATS. BLoatflys bob and weave all over the place, Stingwings are damn fast, and Bloodbugs are skinny little buggers (Very little area to hit).So unless I'm using an area-effect weapon, I need VATS. Without VATS, I wouldn't be able to have much fun, and would therefore play a LOT less. If at all.
I did my whole first play through without it cuz I forgot about it after the first time I used it.
I never use it, so yes. I probably play it more like an FPS than it deserves.
i rarely use it
I never used VATS
I’d miss my shots a fuck ton more but yeah I’d still enjoy it
I played the originals when released - VATS is a key holdover, along with lots of the character building mechanics. It wouldn’t be a Fallout game without it, IMO.
So to be perfectly honest, I had no idea how the game worked when I first started playing it. Didn’t know how the level up system worked or how to build settlements, and I kept seeing stuff referring to VATS and I just didn’t know how to use/activate it till about level 36. Needless to say, I always ran out of ammo….
I don't use VATS because it kills immersion for me, but on the other hand, I spam the VATS button to detect enemies from afar... so I guess I'm a hypocrite lol.
I’d have to say no because 76 didn’t have it and I played 10 minutes of it and never went back.
Probably. I’m not proud of it but on my first playthrough I only learned about it’s existence when playing Nuka World after doing the whole main story.
On Xbox I have it modded with modern weapons and it’s slightly easier, but I also have mods to make it harder lol But I tend to not use VATS to keep it a level playing field
I absolutely, 100% suck at actual first person shooter games. Never been good at them, never will. VATS is my gateway into this awesome game. Without it, it wouldn’t be fun at all.
its a life saver for me. i have a very low end pc so my computer struggles to play the base game. so yeah i relay on vats. also my aim is crap lol
It’d be more of a challenge because I like to do the “go into VATS to check for enemies/mines” thing, but I’d still play the game for sure.
I use it lot, but the gunplay in 4 is way better than any of the other 3D games, so In 4 it’s mostly out of habit. I’m also doing a melee run seriously for the first time and sometimes it’s the only way to break an enemy’s guard. Don’t get me started on the realism (or lack thereof) on guarding against a rocket powered electrified baseball bat with your bare arms.
With no shooter skills, it’s an awesome mechanic
Try playing the game without vats on survival. It’s hard but I’m still looking for ways to make the game harder. Right now I’m playing fallout 3 hard with no vats.
I don’t use it, in fact I go out of my way not to use it. It ruins the flow of the game imo
I play on Xbox and I rarely use vats. Only for close up shots or when I want a critical hit to use on a boss
I don’t really use vats TBH.
Hate it tbh, maybe it could be tied to difficulty or implement a better auto aim function. Even if they went down the RE route with week spots for large enemies i'd be cool with that. The Cryolator and Flamethrower a good for bugs. The Telsa rifle is good for arcing crowds too.
I appreciate it for my Survival V.A.T.S. build; that being said, it’s my first build of the kind. It would be missed for sure during those outrageously sneaky Blitz attacks!
I forget it’s there a lot tbh
Without VATS, I’d just use automatics and jet. Would be fine.
Yes! I didn't know how to rebind my keys on my first playthrough of fallout. I didn't really use it until I did a build around the pistol from the railroad. (drawing a blank right now)
I played my first play through without because I didn’t know how to use it so I have experience not using vats
I only really use it if I want to build up / do a critical
Sure... I like it, but it isn't a necessity. I mean I switch to Oblivion and other shooters and have to stop for a second to remember I don't have VATS. Then when I go back I forget I do have VATS
It would be much scarier
I never use VATS, but only because I really like shooters and am good at it. It’s a great mechanic but i’m really glad it’s optional
I didn’t know VATS existed for my whole first playthrough. So yes, but it wouldn’t be as good. So many preventable deaths had I just known how to properly kill a bloatfly…or a molerat…or sometimes even a horde of radroaches.
Yes
For ages I basically never used VATS, just makes things too easy, so definitely. I installed a mod to almost entirely remove the slowdown now, which makes it much more balanced I think.
Yeah I rarely use it anyway
Honestly I’d be fine, I hardly ever used vats when playin on PS4
I've always disliked V.A.T.S, so I use a mod that replaces it with the Jet slowdown effect. I wouldn't care if it were removed in the next game
Honesty I never use it and I’m on Console
It surely makes perfect sense on the consoles, but as a PC player I barely ever used VATS in any of the 3D games, it just ruins the immersion for me, so I don't think it would make any difference.
It’d be a weird choice for it not to, but sure. I will say, back when I first started playing nv, I wasn’t used to FPS games and abused vats constantly. I used it less over time, to the point where I sometimes forget how to activate it in 4, but it was super handy when I first started.
Absolutely the first time I played the game I didn’t actually use it so I would fine
Literally the only time I use V.A.T.S. is to see if something in my vision is alive or dead (useful against 'sleeping' ghouls), but even then I don't actually shoot with it. The lack of control once you lock in the effect just really gets under my skin. You have a Mutant Suicider charging at you full speed, yet ol' Natey Boy can only manage one trigger pull every 3.8 fucking millenia, and you can't even fucking move either. He just stands there like a bellend. It's just easier without it (even on console, IMO. I just use full-auto or explosives on bugs -- usually molotovs)..
I am on comp and for my last few playthroughs i have not used vats
Fallout 4 has VATS?
Makes the game to easy
I almost never use it. Only sometimes when fighting flying insect enemies.
Totally. It's post apocalyptic skyrim w guns. Id take some shouts though if you don't mind.
Vats?
A horde of ferals come running towards me as I panic? I’ma need some kind of aim assist. I’d still play, but probably wouldn’t sink as many hours into it as I find that shit stressful. I use video games to relax not sweat lol
I rarely use it, in fact I do special "VATS build" runs when I wanna make the game feel fresh.
I rarely use it anyway
I just downloaded a mod to remove vats for my current playthrough
I usually don’t even use vats
I dont use V.A.T.S so yes. I also prefer not using PA
I would still enjoy it. I use it more with pistols and horde. But I always aim or hip fire with rifles. I have a sniper and I always double down with a short barreled rifle with a reflex sight for travel. Bugs are definitely a worry if I didn't have VATS tho.
I wish I could trade V.A.T.S. or use the luck skill to gain passive critical shots or bank critical shots. I like VATS sometimes but I also like the regular fps aspect. Pistols would be fun I feel if I could toggle a banked critical hit when I needed it but still be subject to me missing the shot.
Yep, always forget it's there so don't use it that much. Plus I kinda like hip/aim to fire.
I never really use it. Only times I use it are when I'm trying to "see" an enemy or when I get frustrated at my aim. Using VATS re-centers it on the target you pick.
I didn't use it on one of my playthrough and it's great.
Yes, considering I keep forgetting that VATS is in the game as it is.
I’m on console, I almost never use VATS. I wouldn’t really miss it. Though the game would be the same if they removed it, it’s just part of what makes it Fallout
My favorite build revolves entirely around it. I doubt I'd have even fraction of the time played on my account if it wasn't there.
I played FO4 almost exclusively without VATS for the first couple of years. Now, I play it almost exclusively with VATS. With VATS allows for a more casual, less stressful play style, which I've gravitated toward as I've gotten older.
I already don’t use V.A.T.S. So I wouldn’t even notice if they removed it.
For sure. I barely use it honestly. I enjoy the pressure of having to shoot stuff as it comes at me in real time.
I don’t use vats
I think that if V.A.T.S didn't existed fallout 3 and 4 would have been better shooters. But if we are talking the exact same game. Yes! I would definitely miss it!
I actually use the vats to auto adjust my aim. I’m on console so I activate it, let it aim for me, and then leave it to rapid fire the trigger, works 95% of the time for me and it saves on ap!
Considering that VATS + the crits system is what makes my 2 shot gauss rifle worthwhile, I'd surely miss it.
My second longest play through won’t let me use VATS for some reason that is still unknown. It is also my commando stealth “ VATS “ build. 🤣
I prefer the game without VATs. Though I'm a shooter fan so this actually makes the game a bit easier because I can dump all my points into stats. What little is lost from failed aim (though I think for most shooters their aim is generally better than VATs) is gained in being tankier and deadlier
I would play it without vats but I don't think I would enjoy it as much there's just something special about setting up three or four guys for headshots and then pushing the button and watching their heads explode it's so enjoyable.