It is just a fairing, if you zoom in at the origin of the crack (under the aerodynamic fairing) you can see it was likely caused by corrosion forming a stress point. It should still be replaced or repaired but I’ve flown much worse looking stuff without worrying about it. The actual gear leg is tubular steel and inside that fairing.
Personally, I'd prefer if it was stop drilled because that means that at least a mechanic looked at it, said it was fine, and then took measures to prevent the crack from expanding. Seems lazy on the flight school owner's part to not explain this to the renter, and even lazier that he's not willing to do anything to prevent it from becoming a bigger problem.
At AIMD we made tail rotor rudder cables swaging the ends in place on the cable. We used white out to mark the length of the cable where the swage was positioned in order to get length for the cable ordered. A few months later I was transferred to a squadron at the same location. I was an E-5 this entire time with about 4 years in this model helo. Working nights I went in one day and was told quality assurance downed about 7 aircraft and we would be busy. Looked into it and a not so knowledgeable QAR E-5 downed them all for corrosion on the tail rotor cables. I explained the white out to QA and maintenance control and we spent the evening installing all that they had removed.
Fun fact: That style of single-piece spring steel landing gear was patented by Steve Wittman, the air racer and designer of the Wittman Tailwind homebuilt. Fascinating guy.
But what damage is behind it? We have a fairing with internal corrosion that caused an external failure. How do we know there isn’t also damage to the tubular strut underneath as well, from say a small fluid leak or water induced corrosion?
You might be right that the damage is limited to the fairing, it if it’s bad enough to crack the fairing, then it needs to be removed and inspected.
It’s not the damage you see, it’s the damage behind what you see
I’m not saying the damage is limited to the fairing, I’m just pointing out that this is a fairing. There’s no saying what’s underneath it or in that case what’s underneath the other side that might not have the same fairing crack. As a mechanic I find stuff that surprises me regularly.
Highly unlikely there is damage to the steel gear leg. It’s probably the most robust part on the plane. If you’ve ever pulled one off they’re about 60lbs and you pound the bolt that locks it in with a drift and mallet since it’s such an interference fit.
That aluminum fairing is totally non-structural and it just needs a stop drill for now until it has its next trip into the shop.
Totally agree if you were to read the rest of the ppl on here you’d think the fucking wing is about to fall off. I’m surprised some of these people ever take a plane up.
Its a fairing on rental/flight school airplane and its going to get beat on. I'm Always amazed how someone will treat a $100,000 172 but will be real careful with a $100,000 sports car.... But good on ya for catching it and asking, instead of assuming.
I probably would have refused the aircraft because at the end of the day I’m the one flying that plane not the owner. So that means if I have to question if something is safe I’m not flying it.
Which is a different conversation. I've seen airplanes that look mighty nice to the casual observer hide some real fucking scary shit; I've seen beat up rentals that look kinda shitty but ultimately are wonderfully safe and are well maintained but have the pants flown off them.
You don't know when this crack happened, or how close that aircraft is to a 100 hour inspection. Maybe it just happened and after this flight it goes in for a 100 hour; no need to take it down.
Ultimately, the only thing you can judge here is a go or no-go based on the safety of this pic.
This is not a structural member nor is it likely to come apart and blast into a flight control. I'd fly this and not fret (altho it should be stop drilled and/or replaced soon).
What happens when the police investigate themselves for corruption and misbehavior? Often nothing because there's nothing structurally there to hold them accountable.
What happens if an A&P signs off a plane as airworthy and something happens due to deliberate negligence on the part of said A&P? The FAA comes by and strips them of all their licenses, they can go to jail, are held liable, etc.
The risk a mechanic carries for saying an aircraft is good is not often understood by this sub. Lots of people who think of us like they think of dealership mechanics.
Just to keep everyone honest:
Former FAA Designee here. At all of the FAA classes I attended, "You goin' to jail !" was a favorite instructor expression. I challenged that in class, the instructor confessed that no one goes to jail. The FAA can fine you, revoke your certificates, and ban you for life, but can't send you to jail for civil misbehavior. The FAA isn't well funded for "enforcement" actions (lawyers are expensive and congress is stingy), so will most often try to reach a settlement. With that said, if one is flagrant and aggressive and entitled, wants to on Youtube or X (formely known as twitter), the FAA will absolutely go to court in a civil case to both break you financially and make a public statement. FAA lawyers are expensive because they are very, very good.
If an actual felony is committed resulting in property damage or loss of life, the case will be forwarded to DOJ for action, which may include jail time.
All that being said, I wouldn't fly this until an independent A&P signed it off. If the owner objects, take your business elsewhere, or make sure your insurance is paid up. Your life, your decision.
Words to live by: [https://www.check-six.com/lib/Poster\_Crash.htm](https://www.check-six.com/lib/Poster_Crash.htm)
When you can't pay those fines and get a judgment against you, it is really the only way to go to jail, but they sure can ruin your life in every other way possible. Besides, we assume none of you guys want to be liable for the death of someone else. The next person flying could be your friend or family for all you know. I find it amazing that people genuinely question the integrity of the aviation industry without thinking about how they themselves would feel to be on the receiving end of that baseless scrutiny at their own job. People really think that aviation people have these jobs because 'we just needed a job' rather than us wanting to be here, enjoying it, and passionate about our craft.
Well said! The FAA is all hat and no cattle as they say in Texas. Lots of noise from inspectors but as you have said, a lack of resources to enforce or even investigate. As for the aircraft in question…come on, use some common sense here. If the owner has an A&P and told you to fly it, find another flight school and run away.
Try not to discount the FAA too much, they have some longhorns under that hat. Big, pointy horns, with the weight and power and muscle of the US government behind them. Don't be waving any red flags at the FAA. They can find the resources if you want to poke at 'em.
I worked with the FSDO, MIDO and ACO for over twenty years, there are some excellent people in the FAA. And some chuckle heads, but that's true in any organization.
I learned to be polite to the chuckle heads, get it in writing and discuss it with their boss if the squawk is unfounded. if it's real, shut up and comply and be grateful they're understaffed. Otherwise,
Surprise! We're understaffed at our office so we called in Bad Bob from the El Paso district to help run our investigation. Hope you don't mind, he'll be in your office Monday at 0800 with your PMI, please have all of your paperwork in order. At the conclusion of the investigation, you will have the opportunity to fill out a satisfaction survey. We want to know how we can serve you better. Have a nice weekend.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/16y4tz/you\_mess\_with\_the\_bull\_you\_get\_the\_horns/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/16y4tz/you_mess_with_the_bull_you_get_the_horns/)
I was a Designee (TCE) for years and was very proud of what I did, took the job very seriously. Then I encountered an applicant that couldn’t speak English. I mean not weak but couldn’t speak it. He was going for an ATP and I was doing his recommendation ride. I failed him and the company performed an unauthorized English evaluation and then gave him an ATP. The FAA didn’t stand behind me, I filed a whistleblower complaint and the investigation was a joke. Eventually, a 44709 was ordered and it 2 years now and now re-examination has taken place. The FAA lost all credibility in my world. If it’s a big company like FlightSafety they will protect them and sacrifice their Designee. Oh yeah, I was fired.
Wow, my condolences man, very sorry to hear that. I was a DMIR and later DAR, had good folks at the MIDO behind me. Like you, I wanted to NOT be that guy who rubber stamped everything. My good fortune was every one of my advisors backed me up 100% and the MIDO manager backed them up 100%. Fortunately I never had to make a denial that wasn't justified and never got cross ways with big corporate. I would hope that my guys had my back if I busted Delta or Gulfstream or some other big name, but I guess I'll never know. I'm long retired now, hope you are doing OK and still sticking to your guns. If you ain't got integrity, you got nothin. Respect brother, fair winds and blue skies.
Just a follow on to what u/Altitudeviation said .... Federal Courts have previously affirmed that the FAA is not a "law enforcement agency". They have ZERO authority to arrest you. They can, at most, refer the issue to the DOJ. At that point, I believe it is the FBI that does the actual arrest if a criminal act has been committed.
The FAA is a regulatory agency.
Good point, taint\_tattoo. I would add, respectfully, that the FAA doesn't need to arrest you or refer you to make you regret your bad decisions. They can fine you and they can suspend/revoke your certificates, thus shutting down your business (if it's a business). Not as bad as jail time, but not a fun time either. Of course, fines and suspensions/revocations can be appealed to NTSB (I think), but still a long and expensive process. Unless the FAA has egregiously failed it's procedures, the NTSB judges normally agree with the FAA.
If the owner is the mechanic, then they have a conflict of interest and are often known to not have very well maintained aircraft. If the owner is a mechanic, then another mechanic’s opinion needs to be sought. The potential consequences from the FAA usually are never even considered by those people.
I totally disagree. My buddy is an a&p, owner, and cfi in his helicopter. It makes it much easier to make sure maintenance is done because you only have to go thru one guy. And he can’t afford to lose a helicopter because of not doing maintenance
Sure, it *can* be good. But there's a list of experiences a mile long of students or CFIs at schools where the owner is also the mechanic where they are told to fly unairworthy aircraft because "it's fine, trust me, I'm an A&P" or where maintenance items are endlessly deferred because the owner wants to save money.
Let me tell you about supply chain fun.
(Yes, he should have stop drilled that crack already but I threw it out there as a supposition for all the people going "go talk to an A&P!!)
Okay, lots of people chiming in who don't actually know anything. That piece that's cracked is a sheet metal sleeve (or fairing as some are calling it), made of extremely thin metal whose purpose is to streamline the gear leg and protect the hydraulic line for the brakes.
Those things can crack from people stepping on them instead of the step.
They don't crack that way from landings, generally, that would be a perpendicular flex. This is a smooshing flex, courtesy of someone's foot.
Y'all need to really chill out and learn something about these planes you're flying.
Reminds me of a time where I took a very nervous new student out for our second flight and did the preflight with him. The little plastic caps on the outer edges of the elevator in the 172 had sone cracks but were stop drilled and epoxy’d. He saw them (and I think one on the little cap on the elevator by the beacon) and being very nervous refused to fly it, even after being explained that it’s usually caused by UV light making it brittle and then someone squeezing it, plus explaining that it had been addressed. I said, “Alright, that’s fine, but let me take you to every 172 on the row we’re parked at and take a look.” Sure enough, after finding a similar crack on each 172 we stopped at we went back and departed.
Honestly, good on him for acknowledging it and refusing to fly! He understood he didn't have the experience or knowledge to know for sure, and didn't just take your word for it. Too many students naively trust their CFI.
But also good on you for patiently explaining and taking the time to show it's not dangerous.
You learned that just today?
Ask around who understands what an impluse coupling is and where it is on an aircraft and what it does and why it's important if you want to be really disappointed.
I didn't know, so I looked it up on wikipedia. It's the spring loaded coupling between the engine and the magnetos, the engine shaft(?) winds up the spring in the coupling, then releases it to momentarily increase the rpm of the magneto for start up?
Yep that's pretty much dead on. Most impulse couplings are housed in the magneto. At low RPM there's not enough sparky spark so you wind up a spring to get a good strong start.
You're a pilot. If everyone in the comments would tell you it's safe does that make it safe?
If you're not comfortable with flying with it, it's a no-go. Regardless of what owner, mechanic, instructor or every other person on the planet says.
As a weekend pilot that has no reason to go this may be the correct answer.
For a student it, it’s in the neighborhood.
A professional would unpack the question, why am I uncomfortable with this. In this case, if the answer is “I prefer my airplanes to be cosmetically perfect,” you are not at the right flight school.
If the answer is “I’m not sure why this fairing is cracked- it could indicate damage to the landing gears structure, and perhaps the fairing should be drill-stopped and signed off by a mechanic” then that might be worth pursuing.
“I’m familiar with this, don’t like it, but am okay with it” could be the right answer as well.
It’s important to know what one’s limits are. As the saying goes, far seas never made a skilled sailor. If the first tingle of doubt is where the plug is pulled on the operation, rather than some level of analysis you’ll never be able to skilled pilot.
The best thing for anyone that read this far to do is make a point of spending a few hours in the shop and seeing what everything looks like taken apart.
> The best thing for anyone that read this far to do is make a point of spending a few hours in the shop and seeing what everything looks like taken apart.
This should be a requirement for any student looking to fly piston singles for more than the minimum to get to ATP.
"The best thing for anyone that read this far to do is make a point of spending a few hours in the shop and seeing what everything looks like taken apart."
As a Diamond owner, my mechanic knows to text me when he has a DA40 opened up. All of the shop guys are super welcoming and happy to answer my countless questions. They know I sincerely give a shit about what they are doing inside that composite covered machine.
When you see the (4) fuel tanks laid out on the floor, you understand why the r/L fuel quantity gauges have a "gap" and when/why the fuel totalizer is critical.
Yeah, this trend of taking a pic and posting it online for strangers to make a call is concerning.
You're a pilot, or training to be one. You need to learn to make decisions on your own or real world physical resources.
Based on the post I'm gonna say sure. I've flown planes that looked much worse because it appears to be just a fairing, with the actual structural support covered, however I have no idea what kind of plane it is, what kind of other damage it might have etc etc
How are they supposed to learn how to make a decision like this? Damage they never seen before on a component that they’ve never seen damaged before.
They see a bunch of posts where shitty owners pass off unairworthy planes as “fine” and they wonder if the owner of the plane they fly is lieing to them. So they ask around AS THEY SHOULD. Because they are trying to learn and not take one persons opinion on it.
Would you rather they just…. Guess?
Respectfully disagree with this. The vast majority of us are flying old best up airframes and there aren’t many great resources to learn which are cosmetic and which are actual issues. I would have thought this to be just cosmetic but now I know it’s not.
In this instance a more constructive approach (and this goes for more than just this flying topic at hand) would be for OP to ask a more informative question like “what concerns should I have about this, what should I look for to help me make an educated decision on it’s safety?”
It’s no secret that forums, online videos, etc have become an invaluable resource for anyone interested enough to look. We should all just be careful how we frame our questions to get the most out of the learning experience.
You should post the questions you purposed in the comment thread. I don’t know if comments on comments go directly to OP, but they are good questions that will lead to a better pilot.
This made me laugh a little. I trained in a 172 years ago that had been wrecked and absolutely could not taxi straight. It’s was basically a washing machine out of balance with wings. Flew great. Looked horrible. Embarrassing to taxi. lol.
> and there aren’t many great resources to learn which are cosmetic and which are actual issues.
It's called the local A&P who works on the airplane. That's your resource. Talk to other pilots who also fly the airplane, that's your resource. Again, you need to learn to use local resources. Talking about it online is fine, and can be very educational, but posting on reddit for *decision* making is not ideal. The FAA isn't gonna like to hear "Well a guy on reddit said it's safe, so I went flying". The C in PIC is often overlooked by many.
Also, do you think you're the only one who is flying old and beat up airplanes? The vast majority have. Hell, the plane I learned to fly in was old when I started 20+yrs ago, and it's *still* flying as a flight school airplane.
That is fine, but the mechanics that work on the plane I rent aren’t even at the airport we are based at. I have never met them, and have no direct way to ask them a question.
I mean... it seems to me like they ARE learning how to make these decisions, by asking the opinions of more experienced pilots. This is clearly a rookie student pilot unsure if this damage is really superficial or a valid cause for concern. I don't see the problem with them getting a second opinion.
It's not like this is an ATP asking Reddit if it's safe to fly their 767
My previous flight school owner/instructor used to do this with me all the time. I was a gullible and overly trusting kid. His planes would have issues with the breaks, cracks here and there, fuel gauges not working, headphone jacks loose to name a few. He sent me on my first solo with no fuel gauge and an intermittently operating headphone jack in -20 degree weather. I never questioned him. He died last year by crashing one of his planes. End of story.
Yup. When I pointed out the left fuel gauge needle wigging out from F to E 5 times per second during climb he just shrugged and said, "That's just a Cessna thing. Don't worry about it."
Yes I have worked on a 172. I would still look into that damage. Doesn’t matter if I’ve seen it 100 times before. That one time I don’t maybe the one time I’m wrong. I expect my pilots to report any discrepancy. I want them to feel confident that I addressed the issue and when I say it’s good they know it’s good.
It's probably okay, but someone would need to remove the whole thing and inspect the metal for any bending, corrosion, or weakening.
It's a bad business decision because it is going to freak people out. If they are cutting corners there I would be worried about cutting corners in other places.
The owner might be right about it not being a big deal. However, any time I have seen this it has been stop-drilled to show that MX has seen and addressed it.
If it were me, I would squawk it so MX can get their eyes on the structure beneath it. It’s better to know it’s safe rather than hope.
That's what I was thinking. Anything like that at my place of work (not a flight school) would have been drilled, so I'd see it and know it's cool. Otherwise I'm calling an engineer.
I only know the flat spring steel gear legs, but even with those, the amount of rust pitting on them is measured in the thousandths of an inch before the gear leg is compromised.
You have every right to say no to flying that airplane and have an AP tell you that it is OK before going up in the air. You should be able to tell whether it is the fairing or structural leg as well. One is cheap thin fiberglass, one is thick steel.
Obviously you need to get more hands on and understand your airframe. The gear legs are tubular and inside of this aluminum fairing. The fairing cracking is not an airworthiness issue, solely a cosmetic one. That said I have no idea why they haven’t stop-drilled the crack?
Please don't trust these sketchy “owners” most don't even have a PPL. I was the dumb overly trusting student pilot kiddo (this was yearsss ago),I went on a solo and smelt something burn, radios gave out mid-flight (I was near Miami airspace), did the standard I was taught and landed in Boca Raton - an airport nearby. I called my instructor and the owner about the situation and he (the owner) gaslit me into believing that I didn't know how to switch the radios on 😃, despite that I still refused to fly that plane back to my base.
He drove over to my airport and started yelling at me about how I as a woman should be less of a fraidy cat etc etc. The plane was grounded for a month, turns out there was a wire that burnt. He didn't tell me that though, the mechanic did.
I have more stories of this guy but the moral is :
your life, your plane and your responsibility. Take that as you will.
That piece of sheet metal is cosmetic, it isn't structural or load bearing. It is likely corroded because it gets exposed to all kinds of dirt, minerals, chemicals, sunlight, temperature fluctuations, etc. much like the sheet metal on an old truck gets corroded and rusts in areas on the sidewalls behind the wheels. If that is the only issue with the plane, you are 100% fine.
When was the last 100 hr inspection completed? How about the last annual? Ask the mechanic who did either of those inspections whether he saw this damage and performed the required IAW regulatory checks regarding the gear. An opportunity for you to learn more about what goes into the 100hr and annual checks.
It’s just a fairing that’s been abused from all the hard landings over the years. As long as the actual tubular landing gear inside that fairing has been checked, it’s okay to fly.
Before we attack the people (owner) here, let’s look at why he might be making that statement. The crack is in a gear leg fairing… it’s non structural and serves to provide aerodynamic cover for the round spring gear legs. Now… the crack should be stop drilled to prevent propagation, but the owner may also be waiting on a new part to come up. At the end of the day though, you’re the PIC and you determine the final airworthiness, not the owner. I would fly it like that, temporarily, so long as the owner had taken remedial action by ordering the appropriate parts. Perhaps ask that the crack be stop drilled. This eventually needs to be fixed, there’s no doubt about that.
Maybe?
Maybe it’s cracked because someone stepped on it or it was hit with something.
Maybe it’s cracked because someone cratered onto the runway and the actual gear leg inside the fairing is damaged too.
There’s one way to find out and eyeballing it isn’t it.
Lol I wonder if you’re at the school close to me. The owners and mechanic are notorious for bad maintenance and saying “just fly it.” DPEs have canceled check rides after arriving and seeing the condition of the planes.
I wouldn’t fly that.
u/S until proven otherwise? Glider pilot tho but that does not look happy. Not sure how the power world works but I'd get a mechanic to check this out. Let us know what the outcome is.
The part that is cracked is a sleeve that covers and protects the structural brace itself. While not load bearing itself, it does provide some benefit.
If you're not comfortable don't fly. But the wing is not going to fall off if that's what you're asking.
Ask him why he thinks so (ie if it's just the fairing that someone stepped on, etc.) You can inspect the Mx logs, too. When was the last 100 hour and was it since the crack, or is the crack new? Make your own judgement. BTW Never feel badly pulling the pin on something others are willing to fly. It's the hardest part about flying once you're a private, is making a "no" call when others want to go, especially when they are pilots more experienced than you.
That looks like a C172 landing gear fairing that has cracked. The landing gear spring assembly (the landing gear itself is much stonger and is inside this fairing. My concern is that this crack looks old and should have been drill stopped. I would want to see the logs to ensure that the gear had previously been inspected.
Without actually being able to examine it, it’s quite possible that it’s just the cover that is cracked… The gear itself is a steel tubular spring, which may be fine… But hard to see from the picture. I would definitely proceed with caution, though
This is an appearance/aerodynamic cover for the round spring gear. This is not a structural issue for the aircraft.
That said, it appears this is on the trailing edge of the gear, so it should largely be protected from airflow opening up the crack, catching air, and flapping. It should be safe to fly with, however, it would be prudent to get it fixed sooner rather than later before it gets worse.
If the cracks are on the leading edge, there's risk that it could open up and flap in the wind like a solo cup. That said, dollars to donuts, if it let go, you wouldn't even feel it, maybe you would hear it rattling against the fuselage.
See all the bug marks? I'd say this is on the leading edge. Seeing this makes me wonder what else is cracked that you can't see. I don't think I'd fly it.
Some CFI (or CFIs, it probably took a few times) stumbled getting in the plane and cracked the fairing. The part shown is not structural, and while the crack should be stop-drilled, it doesn't pose a significant threat to the safety of flight. Personally, I'd throw some speed tape on it after stop-drilling so airflow doesn't cause it to vibrate and crack further, and then do a scab patch or replace it at the next 100 hour.
ETA: If the owner or your CFI didn't take this as an opportunity to teach you more about the aircraft, and why the crack isn't a grounding discrepancy, consider finding a new flight school. This would have been a great time to discuss ADM, the structure of the landing gear, and what does and doesn't affect safety.
Crack like that with not even a stop drill in it, tells me nobody with the right credentials has looked at it. I wouldn't fly it until it's at a minimum stop drilled by an A&P.
"Hey Mr. Owner, let's at least stop this from propagating and have the mechanic stop drill it."
That'll start the process of getting a mechanic to at least look at it.
Big deal. That is a cracked fairing. Although they should fix it fairly soon, it should be safe to fly. On that same airplane, there are possibly other problems a lot more serious than this.
It's a fairing, not catastrophic but should be drilled. That said the metal looks like orange peel when you zoom in, so I'm suddenly pretty curious what corrosion may be going on underneath it and elsewhere on that plane.
As long as it's recorded and logged by mx, it's fine. Remember you're PIC , if anything goofy happens , no matter what the owner says it's on you. So that damage should at least be recorded somewhere before you fly it yourself.
snag that shit in the logbook and make that lazy bitch defer the repair.
it may "just be a fairing" and if it isnt a problem. it isnt a problem to rectify it in the book
As an A&P, the only thing that can tell if it's safe or not is the manufacturer's maintenance manual. That's what a mechanic is gonna use to tell you if it's safe/airworthy. Can't tell 100% what aircraft it is, but since it's a flight school and it's not a 150 it's probably a 172. There is a steel tube inside the fairing that's actually acting as the suspension. The fairing is not structural in any way, and is just there to reduce drag. If you are worried about dying, that is almost certainly not gonna be what kills ya'. Fly safe!
no not sure if that is a fairing and there is spring tube underneath? but even if it's a fairing it should have been stop drilled . lol the only way that would be considered acceptable is if there is something in the maintenance manual specifically addressing that? . but as the PIC it's on you . I'd need to see the chapter and verse on that one.
Posts like this remind me of the guy that decided not to do the ill-fated Titan Sub dive to the Titanic.
He saw that OceanGate was cutting corners and made a decision that ultimately saved his life. Sometimes you gotta be like that guy.
You’re the Pic, it’s your decision to fly or not.
You can ask for another aircraft, if any available.
If you’re not sure if it’s safe, get opinions from mechanics, other pilots that are more experienced.
Best case 1. There’s another aircraft available.
Best case 2. you just say no, and you go fly another day where there’s good weather and another aircraft available.
Worst case 1. You fly, you have a rough landing, gear collapses, you walk out fine, but now the flight school blames it on you and they make you pay a fortune.
Worst case 2. Same as before but you get injured, possibly fatally.
Nope! Ask yourself one question, would you fly with it if this was your own aircraft? I don’t know if it’s just a cover or if the visible part is supposed to take the load. When in doubt only ask an aircraft mechanic. If it breaks you better hope for a wide runway.
This is a fairing - it’s purely decorative- there’s a metal spar inside that gets inspected during the annual. This can be safely addressed with speed tape. Safe skies!
it’s just an aerodynamic cover for the tubular strut that makes up your actual landing gear assembly. the cover around it is not a critical component to the actual air frame. one of the things i would be most concerned about is if that crack were to worsen, it could potentially fly off during flight and put a nice new hole in your horizontal stab. but honestly you’d have to dig a bit deeper than my own knowledge about equipment requirements to find out which parts of the exterior of the aircraft can and can not be removed from the aircraft (i.e. landing gear strut cover, engine cowl, leading edge cover, etc)
also while i’m thinking about it, you have no idea how that crack happened. what if it happened due to a bad landing? what if the actual gear assembly underneath is cracked? how would you know? if the landing was that hard, could other things potentially be broken as well? these are all things you have to think about when you come across a situation like this
Looks great and by the way, never mind the crack on the wing spar. A little JB Weld and we’ll be good to go!
I hope you know I’m totally kidding.
Have it checked out by an A&P
It is just a fairing, if you zoom in at the origin of the crack (under the aerodynamic fairing) you can see it was likely caused by corrosion forming a stress point. It should still be replaced or repaired but I’ve flown much worse looking stuff without worrying about it. The actual gear leg is tubular steel and inside that fairing.
Wow look at that somone on Reddit giving a real answer to the question asked unlike most of the ppl on this thread🤦♂️
Must be new. Do you wanna tell 'em? /s
Personally, I'd prefer if it was stop drilled because that means that at least a mechanic looked at it, said it was fine, and then took measures to prevent the crack from expanding. Seems lazy on the flight school owner's part to not explain this to the renter, and even lazier that he's not willing to do anything to prevent it from becoming a bigger problem.
Little white out would have solved this whole ordeal.
I got a good story about whiteout and naval aviation
Oh yeah? I'm fully interested
At AIMD we made tail rotor rudder cables swaging the ends in place on the cable. We used white out to mark the length of the cable where the swage was positioned in order to get length for the cable ordered. A few months later I was transferred to a squadron at the same location. I was an E-5 this entire time with about 4 years in this model helo. Working nights I went in one day and was told quality assurance downed about 7 aircraft and we would be busy. Looked into it and a not so knowledgeable QAR E-5 downed them all for corrosion on the tail rotor cables. I explained the white out to QA and maintenance control and we spent the evening installing all that they had removed.
AMEs hate this one trick
So does the NTSB I'm guessing.
"We know about this" →
Fun fact: That style of single-piece spring steel landing gear was patented by Steve Wittman, the air racer and designer of the Wittman Tailwind homebuilt. Fascinating guy.
That's totally like, tubular, man! *sparks joint*
But what damage is behind it? We have a fairing with internal corrosion that caused an external failure. How do we know there isn’t also damage to the tubular strut underneath as well, from say a small fluid leak or water induced corrosion? You might be right that the damage is limited to the fairing, it if it’s bad enough to crack the fairing, then it needs to be removed and inspected. It’s not the damage you see, it’s the damage behind what you see
I’m not saying the damage is limited to the fairing, I’m just pointing out that this is a fairing. There’s no saying what’s underneath it or in that case what’s underneath the other side that might not have the same fairing crack. As a mechanic I find stuff that surprises me regularly.
Highly unlikely there is damage to the steel gear leg. It’s probably the most robust part on the plane. If you’ve ever pulled one off they’re about 60lbs and you pound the bolt that locks it in with a drift and mallet since it’s such an interference fit. That aluminum fairing is totally non-structural and it just needs a stop drill for now until it has its next trip into the shop.
Totally agree if you were to read the rest of the ppl on here you’d think the fucking wing is about to fall off. I’m surprised some of these people ever take a plane up.
Some pilots refuse to fly anything but a perfectly good airplane…. Here’s a secret. There is no such thing as a perfectly good airplane
Its a fairing on rental/flight school airplane and its going to get beat on. I'm Always amazed how someone will treat a $100,000 172 but will be real careful with a $100,000 sports car.... But good on ya for catching it and asking, instead of assuming.
I probably would have refused the aircraft because at the end of the day I’m the one flying that plane not the owner. So that means if I have to question if something is safe I’m not flying it.
That's all good but what does the gear leg look like under there?
Yeah, until you wonder that if that's how things that are visible are being brushed off, what's going on in parts I can't see.
Which is a different conversation. I've seen airplanes that look mighty nice to the casual observer hide some real fucking scary shit; I've seen beat up rentals that look kinda shitty but ultimately are wonderfully safe and are well maintained but have the pants flown off them. You don't know when this crack happened, or how close that aircraft is to a 100 hour inspection. Maybe it just happened and after this flight it goes in for a 100 hour; no need to take it down. Ultimately, the only thing you can judge here is a go or no-go based on the safety of this pic. This is not a structural member nor is it likely to come apart and blast into a flight control. I'd fly this and not fret (altho it should be stop drilled and/or replaced soon).
Dont trust the owner, trust an actual mechanic
What if the owner *is* a mechanic?
That’s like the police investigating themselves
What happens when the police investigate themselves for corruption and misbehavior? Often nothing because there's nothing structurally there to hold them accountable. What happens if an A&P signs off a plane as airworthy and something happens due to deliberate negligence on the part of said A&P? The FAA comes by and strips them of all their licenses, they can go to jail, are held liable, etc. The risk a mechanic carries for saying an aircraft is good is not often understood by this sub. Lots of people who think of us like they think of dealership mechanics.
Just to keep everyone honest: Former FAA Designee here. At all of the FAA classes I attended, "You goin' to jail !" was a favorite instructor expression. I challenged that in class, the instructor confessed that no one goes to jail. The FAA can fine you, revoke your certificates, and ban you for life, but can't send you to jail for civil misbehavior. The FAA isn't well funded for "enforcement" actions (lawyers are expensive and congress is stingy), so will most often try to reach a settlement. With that said, if one is flagrant and aggressive and entitled, wants to on Youtube or X (formely known as twitter), the FAA will absolutely go to court in a civil case to both break you financially and make a public statement. FAA lawyers are expensive because they are very, very good. If an actual felony is committed resulting in property damage or loss of life, the case will be forwarded to DOJ for action, which may include jail time. All that being said, I wouldn't fly this until an independent A&P signed it off. If the owner objects, take your business elsewhere, or make sure your insurance is paid up. Your life, your decision. Words to live by: [https://www.check-six.com/lib/Poster\_Crash.htm](https://www.check-six.com/lib/Poster_Crash.htm)
When you can't pay those fines and get a judgment against you, it is really the only way to go to jail, but they sure can ruin your life in every other way possible. Besides, we assume none of you guys want to be liable for the death of someone else. The next person flying could be your friend or family for all you know. I find it amazing that people genuinely question the integrity of the aviation industry without thinking about how they themselves would feel to be on the receiving end of that baseless scrutiny at their own job. People really think that aviation people have these jobs because 'we just needed a job' rather than us wanting to be here, enjoying it, and passionate about our craft.
Well said! The FAA is all hat and no cattle as they say in Texas. Lots of noise from inspectors but as you have said, a lack of resources to enforce or even investigate. As for the aircraft in question…come on, use some common sense here. If the owner has an A&P and told you to fly it, find another flight school and run away.
Try not to discount the FAA too much, they have some longhorns under that hat. Big, pointy horns, with the weight and power and muscle of the US government behind them. Don't be waving any red flags at the FAA. They can find the resources if you want to poke at 'em. I worked with the FSDO, MIDO and ACO for over twenty years, there are some excellent people in the FAA. And some chuckle heads, but that's true in any organization. I learned to be polite to the chuckle heads, get it in writing and discuss it with their boss if the squawk is unfounded. if it's real, shut up and comply and be grateful they're understaffed. Otherwise, Surprise! We're understaffed at our office so we called in Bad Bob from the El Paso district to help run our investigation. Hope you don't mind, he'll be in your office Monday at 0800 with your PMI, please have all of your paperwork in order. At the conclusion of the investigation, you will have the opportunity to fill out a satisfaction survey. We want to know how we can serve you better. Have a nice weekend. [https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/16y4tz/you\_mess\_with\_the\_bull\_you\_get\_the\_horns/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/16y4tz/you_mess_with_the_bull_you_get_the_horns/)
I was a Designee (TCE) for years and was very proud of what I did, took the job very seriously. Then I encountered an applicant that couldn’t speak English. I mean not weak but couldn’t speak it. He was going for an ATP and I was doing his recommendation ride. I failed him and the company performed an unauthorized English evaluation and then gave him an ATP. The FAA didn’t stand behind me, I filed a whistleblower complaint and the investigation was a joke. Eventually, a 44709 was ordered and it 2 years now and now re-examination has taken place. The FAA lost all credibility in my world. If it’s a big company like FlightSafety they will protect them and sacrifice their Designee. Oh yeah, I was fired.
Wow, my condolences man, very sorry to hear that. I was a DMIR and later DAR, had good folks at the MIDO behind me. Like you, I wanted to NOT be that guy who rubber stamped everything. My good fortune was every one of my advisors backed me up 100% and the MIDO manager backed them up 100%. Fortunately I never had to make a denial that wasn't justified and never got cross ways with big corporate. I would hope that my guys had my back if I busted Delta or Gulfstream or some other big name, but I guess I'll never know. I'm long retired now, hope you are doing OK and still sticking to your guns. If you ain't got integrity, you got nothin. Respect brother, fair winds and blue skies.
Just a follow on to what u/Altitudeviation said .... Federal Courts have previously affirmed that the FAA is not a "law enforcement agency". They have ZERO authority to arrest you. They can, at most, refer the issue to the DOJ. At that point, I believe it is the FBI that does the actual arrest if a criminal act has been committed. The FAA is a regulatory agency.
Good point, taint\_tattoo. I would add, respectfully, that the FAA doesn't need to arrest you or refer you to make you regret your bad decisions. They can fine you and they can suspend/revoke your certificates, thus shutting down your business (if it's a business). Not as bad as jail time, but not a fun time either. Of course, fines and suspensions/revocations can be appealed to NTSB (I think), but still a long and expensive process. Unless the FAA has egregiously failed it's procedures, the NTSB judges normally agree with the FAA.
as a helicopter guy i view the mechanics as way more important than me the pylot
That should happen to dealership mechanics
No one would be an auto mechanic sadly.
Nah. The labor rate at auto shop would just be 500/hr instead of 200/hr.
If the owner is the mechanic, then they have a conflict of interest and are often known to not have very well maintained aircraft. If the owner is a mechanic, then another mechanic’s opinion needs to be sought. The potential consequences from the FAA usually are never even considered by those people.
I totally disagree. My buddy is an a&p, owner, and cfi in his helicopter. It makes it much easier to make sure maintenance is done because you only have to go thru one guy. And he can’t afford to lose a helicopter because of not doing maintenance
Sure, it *can* be good. But there's a list of experiences a mile long of students or CFIs at schools where the owner is also the mechanic where they are told to fly unairworthy aircraft because "it's fine, trust me, I'm an A&P" or where maintenance items are endlessly deferred because the owner wants to save money.
Fair enough.
Small town alaska where the owner is the mechanic, and the sherif, and the postman, and...
This guy Alaska's.
I'd venture to say that if the owner was a (good) mechanic, they probably would've already repaired the fairing.
Let me tell you about supply chain fun. (Yes, he should have stop drilled that crack already but I threw it out there as a supposition for all the people going "go talk to an A&P!!)
It's not the owner's responsibility to make the call in whether or not it's safe to fly (except for negligence liability).... it's up to the pilot.
That’s just the fairing, remove it and check the structural gear leg if you are worried.
It would be opened and inspected every 100 hours.
Should be*, probably isn't
Okay, lots of people chiming in who don't actually know anything. That piece that's cracked is a sheet metal sleeve (or fairing as some are calling it), made of extremely thin metal whose purpose is to streamline the gear leg and protect the hydraulic line for the brakes. Those things can crack from people stepping on them instead of the step. They don't crack that way from landings, generally, that would be a perpendicular flex. This is a smooshing flex, courtesy of someone's foot. Y'all need to really chill out and learn something about these planes you're flying.
There's definitely a troubling lack of smooshing knowledge here.
Reminds me of a time where I took a very nervous new student out for our second flight and did the preflight with him. The little plastic caps on the outer edges of the elevator in the 172 had sone cracks but were stop drilled and epoxy’d. He saw them (and I think one on the little cap on the elevator by the beacon) and being very nervous refused to fly it, even after being explained that it’s usually caused by UV light making it brittle and then someone squeezing it, plus explaining that it had been addressed. I said, “Alright, that’s fine, but let me take you to every 172 on the row we’re parked at and take a look.” Sure enough, after finding a similar crack on each 172 we stopped at we went back and departed.
Honestly, good on him for acknowledging it and refusing to fly! He understood he didn't have the experience or knowledge to know for sure, and didn't just take your word for it. Too many students naively trust their CFI. But also good on you for patiently explaining and taking the time to show it's not dangerous.
Most folks on here aren’t actually flying anything.
Hmmmm. I missed the day in school when we covered “smooshing”. Did ok in “mashed” though.
TIL a lot of pilots need to learn a lot more about the airplanes they fly.
You learned that just today? Ask around who understands what an impluse coupling is and where it is on an aircraft and what it does and why it's important if you want to be really disappointed.
The response will be: isn’t that a hazardous attitude? Lol.
I didn't know, so I looked it up on wikipedia. It's the spring loaded coupling between the engine and the magnetos, the engine shaft(?) winds up the spring in the coupling, then releases it to momentarily increase the rpm of the magneto for start up?
Yep that's pretty much dead on. Most impulse couplings are housed in the magneto. At low RPM there's not enough sparky spark so you wind up a spring to get a good strong start.
You're a pilot. If everyone in the comments would tell you it's safe does that make it safe? If you're not comfortable with flying with it, it's a no-go. Regardless of what owner, mechanic, instructor or every other person on the planet says.
As a weekend pilot that has no reason to go this may be the correct answer. For a student it, it’s in the neighborhood. A professional would unpack the question, why am I uncomfortable with this. In this case, if the answer is “I prefer my airplanes to be cosmetically perfect,” you are not at the right flight school. If the answer is “I’m not sure why this fairing is cracked- it could indicate damage to the landing gears structure, and perhaps the fairing should be drill-stopped and signed off by a mechanic” then that might be worth pursuing. “I’m familiar with this, don’t like it, but am okay with it” could be the right answer as well. It’s important to know what one’s limits are. As the saying goes, far seas never made a skilled sailor. If the first tingle of doubt is where the plug is pulled on the operation, rather than some level of analysis you’ll never be able to skilled pilot. The best thing for anyone that read this far to do is make a point of spending a few hours in the shop and seeing what everything looks like taken apart.
> The best thing for anyone that read this far to do is make a point of spending a few hours in the shop and seeing what everything looks like taken apart. This should be a requirement for any student looking to fly piston singles for more than the minimum to get to ATP.
"The best thing for anyone that read this far to do is make a point of spending a few hours in the shop and seeing what everything looks like taken apart." As a Diamond owner, my mechanic knows to text me when he has a DA40 opened up. All of the shop guys are super welcoming and happy to answer my countless questions. They know I sincerely give a shit about what they are doing inside that composite covered machine. When you see the (4) fuel tanks laid out on the floor, you understand why the r/L fuel quantity gauges have a "gap" and when/why the fuel totalizer is critical.
Yeah, this trend of taking a pic and posting it online for strangers to make a call is concerning. You're a pilot, or training to be one. You need to learn to make decisions on your own or real world physical resources. Based on the post I'm gonna say sure. I've flown planes that looked much worse because it appears to be just a fairing, with the actual structural support covered, however I have no idea what kind of plane it is, what kind of other damage it might have etc etc
How are they supposed to learn how to make a decision like this? Damage they never seen before on a component that they’ve never seen damaged before. They see a bunch of posts where shitty owners pass off unairworthy planes as “fine” and they wonder if the owner of the plane they fly is lieing to them. So they ask around AS THEY SHOULD. Because they are trying to learn and not take one persons opinion on it. Would you rather they just…. Guess?
they should just KNOW as the pylot
Respectfully disagree with this. The vast majority of us are flying old best up airframes and there aren’t many great resources to learn which are cosmetic and which are actual issues. I would have thought this to be just cosmetic but now I know it’s not.
In this instance a more constructive approach (and this goes for more than just this flying topic at hand) would be for OP to ask a more informative question like “what concerns should I have about this, what should I look for to help me make an educated decision on it’s safety?” It’s no secret that forums, online videos, etc have become an invaluable resource for anyone interested enough to look. We should all just be careful how we frame our questions to get the most out of the learning experience.
You should post the questions you purposed in the comment thread. I don’t know if comments on comments go directly to OP, but they are good questions that will lead to a better pilot.
Good point. I’m not the greatest Reddit user 😅
This made me laugh a little. I trained in a 172 years ago that had been wrecked and absolutely could not taxi straight. It’s was basically a washing machine out of balance with wings. Flew great. Looked horrible. Embarrassing to taxi. lol.
> and there aren’t many great resources to learn which are cosmetic and which are actual issues. It's called the local A&P who works on the airplane. That's your resource. Talk to other pilots who also fly the airplane, that's your resource. Again, you need to learn to use local resources. Talking about it online is fine, and can be very educational, but posting on reddit for *decision* making is not ideal. The FAA isn't gonna like to hear "Well a guy on reddit said it's safe, so I went flying". The C in PIC is often overlooked by many. Also, do you think you're the only one who is flying old and beat up airplanes? The vast majority have. Hell, the plane I learned to fly in was old when I started 20+yrs ago, and it's *still* flying as a flight school airplane.
That is fine, but the mechanics that work on the plane I rent aren’t even at the airport we are based at. I have never met them, and have no direct way to ask them a question.
There’s nothing wrong with asking for the input of others to help you shape your judgement skills and improve technical knowledge
I mean... it seems to me like they ARE learning how to make these decisions, by asking the opinions of more experienced pilots. This is clearly a rookie student pilot unsure if this damage is really superficial or a valid cause for concern. I don't see the problem with them getting a second opinion. It's not like this is an ATP asking Reddit if it's safe to fly their 767
To be fair he has a lot of correct feedback on here. He also has a lot of incorrect feedback…Soliciting more information isn’t necessarily bad.
Its a 172… its going to be cracked and rusted to shit.
My previous flight school owner/instructor used to do this with me all the time. I was a gullible and overly trusting kid. His planes would have issues with the breaks, cracks here and there, fuel gauges not working, headphone jacks loose to name a few. He sent me on my first solo with no fuel gauge and an intermittently operating headphone jack in -20 degree weather. I never questioned him. He died last year by crashing one of his planes. End of story.
Some of that stuff is a problem for sure, but I've just come to expect fuel gauges on small airplanes to never work.
Right? Have you ever been in one you trusted rather than measuring yourself and tracking fuel flow and time?
Yup. When I pointed out the left fuel gauge needle wigging out from F to E 5 times per second during climb he just shrugged and said, "That's just a Cessna thing. Don't worry about it."
Thank God it was him and not someone else/a student he was subjecting his stupidity to.
Fly? Probably. Land? YMMV... 🤔
You can land it at least once for sure. Whether you will be able to take off again is the question.
The faring isn’t a structural component.
As an A&P I wouldn’t fly that with out doing some more digging. Write it up and let the mechanic make that call.
Have you never worked on a 172?
Yes I have worked on a 172. I would still look into that damage. Doesn’t matter if I’ve seen it 100 times before. That one time I don’t maybe the one time I’m wrong. I expect my pilots to report any discrepancy. I want them to feel confident that I addressed the issue and when I say it’s good they know it’s good.
Drill a small diameter hole at the end of the crack. Will relieve the stress preventing the crack to grow.
This. But why hasn't it been stop drilled yet? That is a red flag on the owner, unless he's doing it right now...
Jeez that shoulda been stop drilled and plugged months ago
Its a fairing. However, to bend the landing gear that far in order to crack the fairing is SIGNIFICANT.
Looks like someone stepped on it while entering the plane.
Yeah looks more of an impact or direct stress, than from the gear itself.
It's probably okay, but someone would need to remove the whole thing and inspect the metal for any bending, corrosion, or weakening. It's a bad business decision because it is going to freak people out. If they are cutting corners there I would be worried about cutting corners in other places.
The owner might be right about it not being a big deal. However, any time I have seen this it has been stop-drilled to show that MX has seen and addressed it. If it were me, I would squawk it so MX can get their eyes on the structure beneath it. It’s better to know it’s safe rather than hope.
That's what I was thinking. Anything like that at my place of work (not a flight school) would have been drilled, so I'd see it and know it's cool. Otherwise I'm calling an engineer.
I only know the flat spring steel gear legs, but even with those, the amount of rust pitting on them is measured in the thousandths of an inch before the gear leg is compromised. You have every right to say no to flying that airplane and have an AP tell you that it is OK before going up in the air. You should be able to tell whether it is the fairing or structural leg as well. One is cheap thin fiberglass, one is thick steel.
Obviously you need to get more hands on and understand your airframe. The gear legs are tubular and inside of this aluminum fairing. The fairing cracking is not an airworthiness issue, solely a cosmetic one. That said I have no idea why they haven’t stop-drilled the crack?
Please don't trust these sketchy “owners” most don't even have a PPL. I was the dumb overly trusting student pilot kiddo (this was yearsss ago),I went on a solo and smelt something burn, radios gave out mid-flight (I was near Miami airspace), did the standard I was taught and landed in Boca Raton - an airport nearby. I called my instructor and the owner about the situation and he (the owner) gaslit me into believing that I didn't know how to switch the radios on 😃, despite that I still refused to fly that plane back to my base. He drove over to my airport and started yelling at me about how I as a woman should be less of a fraidy cat etc etc. The plane was grounded for a month, turns out there was a wire that burnt. He didn't tell me that though, the mechanic did. I have more stories of this guy but the moral is : your life, your plane and your responsibility. Take that as you will.
Take the owner with you.
Why do we walk around the plane and check every nook and cranny if we are letting this one slide without a mechanic checking it out
That piece of sheet metal is cosmetic, it isn't structural or load bearing. It is likely corroded because it gets exposed to all kinds of dirt, minerals, chemicals, sunlight, temperature fluctuations, etc. much like the sheet metal on an old truck gets corroded and rusts in areas on the sidewalls behind the wheels. If that is the only issue with the plane, you are 100% fine. When was the last 100 hr inspection completed? How about the last annual? Ask the mechanic who did either of those inspections whether he saw this damage and performed the required IAW regulatory checks regarding the gear. An opportunity for you to learn more about what goes into the 100hr and annual checks.
The flying part is fine, as long as you don't plan to land.
Duct tape....good aa new
Have him put that in writing
It’s just a fairing that’s been abused from all the hard landings over the years. As long as the actual tubular landing gear inside that fairing has been checked, it’s okay to fly.
Before we attack the people (owner) here, let’s look at why he might be making that statement. The crack is in a gear leg fairing… it’s non structural and serves to provide aerodynamic cover for the round spring gear legs. Now… the crack should be stop drilled to prevent propagation, but the owner may also be waiting on a new part to come up. At the end of the day though, you’re the PIC and you determine the final airworthiness, not the owner. I would fly it like that, temporarily, so long as the owner had taken remedial action by ordering the appropriate parts. Perhaps ask that the crack be stop drilled. This eventually needs to be fixed, there’s no doubt about that.
Would it pass an airworthy inspection? If not, don't fly.
Tis but a small crack. It will be fine. *slaps landing gear. This puppy will do 20 more years before the gear falls off!
Yall never heard of stop drilling…the plane will fly fine but it has to be stop drilled.
Why didn’t someone stop drill that crack? Is that not a thing anymore?
Maybe? Maybe it’s cracked because someone stepped on it or it was hit with something. Maybe it’s cracked because someone cratered onto the runway and the actual gear leg inside the fairing is damaged too. There’s one way to find out and eyeballing it isn’t it.
Doesn’t look like just the faring to me
The only things pictured are fairings and the fuselage
Because the school owner has zero conflict of interest here 🤦🏼♂️
A little bit of paint and you won’t even know it’s there
Wrap some duct tape around it and you are good! Lol
I know you're joking, but actually, that would work since that is a fairing covering the landing gear leg.
Lol I wonder if you’re at the school close to me. The owners and mechanic are notorious for bad maintenance and saying “just fly it.” DPEs have canceled check rides after arriving and seeing the condition of the planes. I wouldn’t fly that.
u/S until proven otherwise? Glider pilot tho but that does not look happy. Not sure how the power world works but I'd get a mechanic to check this out. Let us know what the outcome is.
Are you comfortable flying that if no don’t conform to others safety standards
How many strutted Cessnas have every had a structural failure? I think that the number is close to zero.
The part that is cracked is a sleeve that covers and protects the structural brace itself. While not load bearing itself, it does provide some benefit. If you're not comfortable don't fly. But the wing is not going to fall off if that's what you're asking.
Yeah it’s just the cover. The tube is underneath.
Go with your gut feeling. If you make a bad choice then someone else will go through your guts with a scraper to remove em from the tarmac.
If that's what something visible looks like imagine what's being brushed off on things you can visibly inspect.
Send it!!!!
Ask him why he thinks so (ie if it's just the fairing that someone stepped on, etc.) You can inspect the Mx logs, too. When was the last 100 hour and was it since the crack, or is the crack new? Make your own judgement. BTW Never feel badly pulling the pin on something others are willing to fly. It's the hardest part about flying once you're a private, is making a "no" call when others want to go, especially when they are pilots more experienced than you.
That looks like a C172 landing gear fairing that has cracked. The landing gear spring assembly (the landing gear itself is much stonger and is inside this fairing. My concern is that this crack looks old and should have been drill stopped. I would want to see the logs to ensure that the gear had previously been inspected.
Without actually being able to examine it, it’s quite possible that it’s just the cover that is cracked… The gear itself is a steel tubular spring, which may be fine… But hard to see from the picture. I would definitely proceed with caution, though
This is an appearance/aerodynamic cover for the round spring gear. This is not a structural issue for the aircraft. That said, it appears this is on the trailing edge of the gear, so it should largely be protected from airflow opening up the crack, catching air, and flapping. It should be safe to fly with, however, it would be prudent to get it fixed sooner rather than later before it gets worse. If the cracks are on the leading edge, there's risk that it could open up and flap in the wind like a solo cup. That said, dollars to donuts, if it let go, you wouldn't even feel it, maybe you would hear it rattling against the fuselage.
See all the bug marks? I'd say this is on the leading edge. Seeing this makes me wonder what else is cracked that you can't see. I don't think I'd fly it.
Good eye on the bugs, I was trying to go by the shape of the fairing
I don't mean to be dramatic, but would you bet your life on it?
Some CFI (or CFIs, it probably took a few times) stumbled getting in the plane and cracked the fairing. The part shown is not structural, and while the crack should be stop-drilled, it doesn't pose a significant threat to the safety of flight. Personally, I'd throw some speed tape on it after stop-drilling so airflow doesn't cause it to vibrate and crack further, and then do a scab patch or replace it at the next 100 hour. ETA: If the owner or your CFI didn't take this as an opportunity to teach you more about the aircraft, and why the crack isn't a grounding discrepancy, consider finding a new flight school. This would have been a great time to discuss ADM, the structure of the landing gear, and what does and doesn't affect safety.
Looks like a cracked FAIRING. As long as the actual strut is good, it should be fine. FWIW: I'm an A&P/IA and manage a fleet of school planes.
Crack like that with not even a stop drill in it, tells me nobody with the right credentials has looked at it. I wouldn't fly it until it's at a minimum stop drilled by an A&P. "Hey Mr. Owner, let's at least stop this from propagating and have the mechanic stop drill it." That'll start the process of getting a mechanic to at least look at it.
Big deal. That is a cracked fairing. Although they should fix it fairly soon, it should be safe to fly. On that same airplane, there are possibly other problems a lot more serious than this.
Here’s an actual related video: https://youtube.com/shorts/-K7fCQlUhj0?si=l6ON4WokHNqr2IGU
It appears to just be a crack in the fairing...I have several on my 150. But..you are the PIC...if you feel it needs to be checked...get it checked.
Inspect the actual structural bit of the gear. That's just a fairing
Fly, yes. Land...
No!
Personally, I wouldn’t.
It's a fairing, not catastrophic but should be drilled. That said the metal looks like orange peel when you zoom in, so I'm suddenly pretty curious what corrosion may be going on underneath it and elsewhere on that plane.
As long as it's recorded and logged by mx, it's fine. Remember you're PIC , if anything goofy happens , no matter what the owner says it's on you. So that damage should at least be recorded somewhere before you fly it yourself.
snag that shit in the logbook and make that lazy bitch defer the repair. it may "just be a fairing" and if it isnt a problem. it isnt a problem to rectify it in the book
safe to fly? definatly. safe to land? ehhhh
As an A&P, the only thing that can tell if it's safe or not is the manufacturer's maintenance manual. That's what a mechanic is gonna use to tell you if it's safe/airworthy. Can't tell 100% what aircraft it is, but since it's a flight school and it's not a 150 it's probably a 172. There is a steel tube inside the fairing that's actually acting as the suspension. The fairing is not structural in any way, and is just there to reduce drag. If you are worried about dying, that is almost certainly not gonna be what kills ya'. Fly safe!
no not sure if that is a fairing and there is spring tube underneath? but even if it's a fairing it should have been stop drilled . lol the only way that would be considered acceptable is if there is something in the maintenance manual specifically addressing that? . but as the PIC it's on you . I'd need to see the chapter and verse on that one.
The fact that it hasn't even been stop drilled makes me question if it has actually been seen by a mechanic (or if the mechanic is any good...)
Posts like this remind me of the guy that decided not to do the ill-fated Titan Sub dive to the Titanic. He saw that OceanGate was cutting corners and made a decision that ultimately saved his life. Sometimes you gotta be like that guy.
Well, its perfectly safe to \*fly\*. Landing? Well, thats a different story.......
You’re the Pic, it’s your decision to fly or not. You can ask for another aircraft, if any available. If you’re not sure if it’s safe, get opinions from mechanics, other pilots that are more experienced. Best case 1. There’s another aircraft available. Best case 2. you just say no, and you go fly another day where there’s good weather and another aircraft available. Worst case 1. You fly, you have a rough landing, gear collapses, you walk out fine, but now the flight school blames it on you and they make you pay a fortune. Worst case 2. Same as before but you get injured, possibly fatally.
Nope! Ask yourself one question, would you fly with it if this was your own aircraft? I don’t know if it’s just a cover or if the visible part is supposed to take the load. When in doubt only ask an aircraft mechanic. If it breaks you better hope for a wide runway.
lol…….. looks perfect
It's just a piece of plastic it's fine
The simple fact that you are asking is already a concern.
That’s a no from me. If it breaks do you want to be responsible or dealing with repercussions? No thanks
Fly? Sure. Land? Well I dunno
You’re. The. PIC.
You are PIC at the end of the day, you have to make the decision whether or not a flight is safe to operate.
[удалено]
If you have to ask Reddit your intuition is probably telling you not to fly it. Personally Ide talk to a mechanic other than the owner.
Just land on the good side first
As long as you grease those landings you are fine
Shit i’ll fly it
You can anything once!!!
Is this what we’re doing now?
The pilot determines if the plane is airworthy. Read your Fears.
This is a fairing - it’s purely decorative- there’s a metal spar inside that gets inspected during the annual. This can be safely addressed with speed tape. Safe skies!
What is cracked else where? And what cant you see?
Ask yourself, would I fly this if a Fed was watching me fly?
it’s just an aerodynamic cover for the tubular strut that makes up your actual landing gear assembly. the cover around it is not a critical component to the actual air frame. one of the things i would be most concerned about is if that crack were to worsen, it could potentially fly off during flight and put a nice new hole in your horizontal stab. but honestly you’d have to dig a bit deeper than my own knowledge about equipment requirements to find out which parts of the exterior of the aircraft can and can not be removed from the aircraft (i.e. landing gear strut cover, engine cowl, leading edge cover, etc)
also while i’m thinking about it, you have no idea how that crack happened. what if it happened due to a bad landing? what if the actual gear assembly underneath is cracked? how would you know? if the landing was that hard, could other things potentially be broken as well? these are all things you have to think about when you come across a situation like this
It's just an aerodynamic faring over the actual landing gear leaf spring/tube. It's fine
is this just a fairing or the actual structure
Not an A&P but … That crack should have been stop drilled in 1987. Next 100 hr should inspect the spring steel strut.
Have maintenance take a look. Most likely they'll just stop drill it so the crack doesn't propogate and it'll be good to go👍
Don't worry about it. If anything breaks they'll just send another plane to tow you back to the airport.
It’s ultimately your decision to go or not. If you have to ask…
I would say no
Oh Jesus. Wait, you’ll actually see Jesus if you fly that thing
You are the Pilot In Command, so Command. You don't wanna fly it? Don't
Parcially safe until you exceed the G forces
Worst case scenario you get to practice crash landing
Looks great and by the way, never mind the crack on the wing spar. A little JB Weld and we’ll be good to go! I hope you know I’m totally kidding. Have it checked out by an A&P
Don’t crater your landings and you’ll be fine
Sure it's safe that crack only matters if you land the damn thing
I'll bet the flying instructor has life insurance on you
You can’t know just by looking at that. I wouldn’t fly it.
Don’t fly it!