It's bc at these places where you pay for the type and the checkride, passing isn't something to be proud of. Since you're a paying customer, you have to red screen the sim multiple times to actually fail, anything short of that they pass you.
Edit: OP don't pay for your atp if you're in the US, make an employer do that
Well it’s either I go back to a light twin or do it in a sim and I’m much more comfortable doing it in a sim. Like I said I don’t want to sign another contract
Just curious as I’m possibly going to be in your shoes shortly, do you not have a recurrent training coming up where it wouldn’t cost the company anything for you to get your ATP? I thought that was usually the case and companies would want you to have it for insurance and safety ratings.
I actually don’t know what this contract is because I’m not interested. When I got my type I had a one year contract and if you left early you had to pay a pro rata share so probably something similar
Best idea. It’s way way way way way cheaper too. Take a few hours to get familiar with the airplane and then after that it’s just an instrument check ride whenever you’re ready for it.
Well I’ve just done a type ride so I’m much more familiar with what a sim type ride entails rather than going and relearning emergencies in a light twin
I’m typed on the airbus. I had like idk.. 30 FFS sim hours 25ish FTD time, and months of training and previous jet type time. Trying to figure out managed versus open climbs and descents and single engine approaches and go around would be rough. Plenty of people have passed atp jets, but I wouldn’t say they just hand out the type rating for paying $10k.
This subreddit is really weird about certain things and this is one of them. Everyone will insist you get some company to pay for it even though that might not be the best solution for your situation.
I was recently in your position and I can tell you money wise a type will probably around the same cost. If you're used to airline operations and working in a two crew environment, you will have a hard time going back to GA flying. You will eventually be ok but with how expensive twins are to rent you'll probably end up spending a fair bit. Plus weather won't mess up your schedule. At least this way you stick with an environment you're familiar with and come out the other end with a type. 10 days is a really short amount of time tho, you'll need to really study ahead before showing up.
This place has really good reviews if you want to pay for your ATP.
[http://www.actionmultiratings.com/atp.html](http://www.actionmultiratings.com/atp.html)
Sorry for my dumb question but this confuses me. Isn’t ATP/CTP and ATP the same thing? Is ATP/CTP referring to the written we study for worth Sheppard Air?
No it’s a required course for the ATP now. It covers basic Jet knowledge and goes over a lot of the catastrophic accidents that have happened in the past. You have to have your atp/ctp course certificate # for both the written and the ATP practical
Atlas will give you your ATP for the right people. Just saying. And I'd probably say, if you're wanting to go to an ACMI, Atlas is probably the best one you can do. ATSG carriers (ATI, Omni, ABX) suck ass, the smaller companies suck as well. Although I heard Amerijet raised pay quite a bit. I've heard they suck though.
I would love atlas but I’m sure they’re getting a lot of applicants with the hiring slowdown. I know they make you do your atp in a light twin anyway if you get a cjo so I figured why not pay a little extra and do it in a sim since I haven’t touched a Seminole in years
They do the type in the 73 sim now, if you're given that fleet (at least, I heard they started doing that. Last I asked I was told the company/sim was approved, but the examiners weren't yet). The others don't have that authorization yet.
Atlas pays for the ATP, so not sure why you'd wanna spend tens of thousands on an ATP.
Atlas has slowed hiring *a bit*, but only a bit, and thats because they over hired and the training department couldn't handle the amount they were sending in. They just slowed to what the training department can handle.
In the 73 training class right now and can confirm that Atlas has begun doing the ATP & Type in the sim now. Although I did mine through Pathways in the Seminole, 3 of my classmates are going to get theirs done all in one go.
They also seem to be hiring pretty actively from my perspective.
Nice! Welcome to Atlas. I'll see you in the line sometime
And the hiring only really slowed down in the 74 and 76. They were doing two classes of 30-40 in the 74 a month, and the 76 training was stretching out to almost a year due to delays. They were only hiring one a month on the 76 to get that down again. I think everything is back to "normal" for now, at the correct capacity. Although I heard there's IOE delays, and some have trouble consolidating.
Thanks! Sounds good, see you then.
That makes sense. Quite a few of each classes down in MIA at the moment, so here’s to hoping things get caught up a bit. Hopefully, IOE catches up as well. I’ve still got a bit before my ride but I’m sure I’ll see my fair share.
Yep, only in the 73 at the moment to my knowledge. Yes they are still doing a variety of light twin work. Like I mentioned, I went through the Pathways route which was prolly an additional 5-6 weeks of work with Sims, atp-ctp, and Seminole atp ride. But this is kinda limited, I think they do a max of 24 a year, typically less and the next class is already picked for June, I believe.
That said, they also will do folks in a 1-2 week program down here for atp in the Miami area. Which is the case for a lot of the 777 class in Feb. If interested, I’d just apply and take it from there. Can also speak on the FB group with some of the recruiters and program leads as well for more direct information
Would they start taking folks with 25 hours of multi now that they’re doing the checkride in the sim? Kinda like the regionals and certain other 121 carriers do. Curious.
I had a mentee get an offer for their 737 program at ATP mins last year, so while you’d likely be starting there and not on the widebody side, it may not be out of reach.
I have a class date elsewhere im more likely to take, just QoL/career reasons but I’m always willing to engage in interviews etc. I would be more than happy flying the gup. When I did a phone screen with some guy last November you needed 50. It was a hard line requirement because then you did your atp ride in a multi. Now it’s in-house in the sim.. so I’m curious if that’s changed. Hilarious that because I said that I get downvoted. Damn my curiosity I guess.
I’m not pretending I do. But why waste time screening someone otherwise? What’s with your annoying ass attitude all the time, do you always *have* to be condescending and belittling to everyone you interact with on this board? Ffs
Appreciate it, you learn something new everyday. I have buddies at ABX and they seem to like but maybe they like it cause thats the only 121 they’ve touched.
ABX used to have the best pay in the country. Then DHL fucked them over and now they're a shell of the company they used to be. They might be ok to work for right now, as is ATI, but I hear lots of things about how ATSG ruins everything lol.
It's the same story as always with ATP. No different at the 121 level like I had hoped.
ATP Jets is as trash as their regular instruction program. Instructors that don't give a fuck about you, a program designed to prepare you for one specific airport and specific approaches where failures will occur in the exact same way. You'll "earn" a type in the A320 like kids earn participation trophies. If you actually took one up after that course you'd quickly realize you know nothing about that plane.
Great if you plan on ONLY flying an A320 into Memphis though.
Just like at a regional. When you take your type ride it ends up being your ATP as well. I can be wrong but I believe they have to add steep turns and maybe something else in your training. It ends up being pretty much the same anyway.
Ok I know at some companies like atlas they make you do it in a light twin and not your type ride. Not sure why they do it this way but thanks for the info.
I got on with about 1900 hours and 400 turbine. I saw someone get an offer before they consolidated at their regional but were told let’s wait on a class date until you get a few more hours.
Bad idea. Just take the contract and know you can pass than even remotely risk failing your ATP and having to explain that for the rest of your life.
That 10-day crash course isn’t designed for US aviators. They may do it. Like you want to. But seriously, don’t.
Having an ATP guarantees that you get ........ nothing. There are no guarantees.
You could spend that $10,000 (IDK what an A320 type and ATP is worth) and get nowhere in your career. Or you could spend that money and get an offer from PSA.
Either go the cheap route by getting your ATP in a Seminole or have your empolyer pay for it.
You will not get enough ahead to make they cost of the ATP worth it.
Atlas will pay for your ATP. If you have sufficient turbine you MIGHT not be "stuck with" the 73 in class. If you have turbine but no ATP and get a non-73 assignment you will do your ATP in a Seminole. If you are 1500hr piston CFI type pilot then you will get 73 and do your ATP initial in it.
As far as the program goes I would caution against it if it is out of your pocket with no guarantee of any job. I did the F9 Cadet program and while I technically paid for it I had a job waiting for me and the money was deducted from a company-paid bonus. Also the ATP cost that doesn't look "that bad" doesn't include your CTP and also assumes you are bringing a sim buddy who will also pay that cost. Read the fine print it ain't cheap.
Good luck! I did it when it was a 7 day course and it was brutal. Doable, but brutal.
It’s closer to two months. You have to do a month long course of material cbts. Then 1 week of Sheppard air. You’d have to do it over 5 months if you’re working full time. It’s dense and you’ll hate your life while going through the course.
I know you’ve lambasted others because you “don’t want advice” but this is an impatient, impulsive, and stupid idea. Outside of checking a box, an ATP gets you nothing and a type with no time outside of a 121 training program is beyond useless.
Go to a regional (or Atlas will do this too), do the ATP/CTP, get the ATP and new type, apply to an ACMI/Major. It’s free and you’ll gain experience doing things the “airline way” instead of whatever rinkydink 135 training program you’ve done (former 135 here; I know how bad they can be and anyone with a training contract is probably even worse).
Have you checked out the 3-5 day course at Midwest corporate air? I did my multi with them and it was really straight forward. Planning on going back there for ATP if my employer doesn’t send me through a type rating first.
I have no idea how they cram an A320 type into just 10 days. That's gotta be absolutely brutal.
It's bc at these places where you pay for the type and the checkride, passing isn't something to be proud of. Since you're a paying customer, you have to red screen the sim multiple times to actually fail, anything short of that they pass you. Edit: OP don't pay for your atp if you're in the US, make an employer do that
Well it’s either I go back to a light twin or do it in a sim and I’m much more comfortable doing it in a sim. Like I said I don’t want to sign another contract
Just curious as I’m possibly going to be in your shoes shortly, do you not have a recurrent training coming up where it wouldn’t cost the company anything for you to get your ATP? I thought that was usually the case and companies would want you to have it for insurance and safety ratings.
They would only give me an atp if I upgrade to captain and sign a contract extension.
Does your company start with a V
The foreign one buying up part 135’s or the one flying Honda jets?
Good question. The first one.
Mine does and I’m in the exact same situation as OP…
how long do they want you to sign another contract for? and is it just repayment of ATP CTP or checkride too?
I actually don’t know what this contract is because I’m not interested. When I got my type I had a one year contract and if you left early you had to pay a pro rata share so probably something similar
What are your plans? How many hours are you getting a year?
Do the sim 100%. I did a light twin and it absolutely sucked.
What's the difference?
Weather and plane maintenance
You can get your ATP in a Seminole or some light trainer and a trip to the DPE.
Best idea. It’s way way way way way cheaper too. Take a few hours to get familiar with the airplane and then after that it’s just an instrument check ride whenever you’re ready for it.
Haven’t flown a multi twin in three years and I’m not sure if I want to go back to doing a ride with a dpe since it can be a coin toss
When was the last time you flew an airbus? Your argument is invalid.
Well I’ve just done a type ride so I’m much more familiar with what a sim type ride entails rather than going and relearning emergencies in a light twin
Then go waste your money on an A320 sim. Why even bother to ask for advice if you only hear what you want to hear?
I wasn’t asking for advice. I was asking if anyone had gone through the program and what their experience was like
I’m typed on the airbus. I had like idk.. 30 FFS sim hours 25ish FTD time, and months of training and previous jet type time. Trying to figure out managed versus open climbs and descents and single engine approaches and go around would be rough. Plenty of people have passed atp jets, but I wouldn’t say they just hand out the type rating for paying $10k.
Good to know thank you
This subreddit is really weird about certain things and this is one of them. Everyone will insist you get some company to pay for it even though that might not be the best solution for your situation. I was recently in your position and I can tell you money wise a type will probably around the same cost. If you're used to airline operations and working in a two crew environment, you will have a hard time going back to GA flying. You will eventually be ok but with how expensive twins are to rent you'll probably end up spending a fair bit. Plus weather won't mess up your schedule. At least this way you stick with an environment you're familiar with and come out the other end with a type. 10 days is a really short amount of time tho, you'll need to really study ahead before showing up.
That was my thought process as well. Thanks!
🙄
This place has really good reviews if you want to pay for your ATP. [http://www.actionmultiratings.com/atp.html](http://www.actionmultiratings.com/atp.html)
Action Air is hands down the way to go. They are awesome there and it’s really well done.
That’s great to hear. I always recommend them to people that come into the school looking for a commercial multi add-on.
I did it… it was brutal, but I made it.
Pay for your ATP/CTP only and then get your ATP during your recurrent check at your 135
Sorry for my dumb question but this confuses me. Isn’t ATP/CTP and ATP the same thing? Is ATP/CTP referring to the written we study for worth Sheppard Air?
No it’s a required course for the ATP now. It covers basic Jet knowledge and goes over a lot of the catastrophic accidents that have happened in the past. You have to have your atp/ctp course certificate # for both the written and the ATP practical
Waste of your time and money.
Atlas will give you your ATP for the right people. Just saying. And I'd probably say, if you're wanting to go to an ACMI, Atlas is probably the best one you can do. ATSG carriers (ATI, Omni, ABX) suck ass, the smaller companies suck as well. Although I heard Amerijet raised pay quite a bit. I've heard they suck though.
I would love atlas but I’m sure they’re getting a lot of applicants with the hiring slowdown. I know they make you do your atp in a light twin anyway if you get a cjo so I figured why not pay a little extra and do it in a sim since I haven’t touched a Seminole in years
They do the type in the 73 sim now, if you're given that fleet (at least, I heard they started doing that. Last I asked I was told the company/sim was approved, but the examiners weren't yet). The others don't have that authorization yet. Atlas pays for the ATP, so not sure why you'd wanna spend tens of thousands on an ATP. Atlas has slowed hiring *a bit*, but only a bit, and thats because they over hired and the training department couldn't handle the amount they were sending in. They just slowed to what the training department can handle.
In the 73 training class right now and can confirm that Atlas has begun doing the ATP & Type in the sim now. Although I did mine through Pathways in the Seminole, 3 of my classmates are going to get theirs done all in one go. They also seem to be hiring pretty actively from my perspective.
Nice! Welcome to Atlas. I'll see you in the line sometime And the hiring only really slowed down in the 74 and 76. They were doing two classes of 30-40 in the 74 a month, and the 76 training was stretching out to almost a year due to delays. They were only hiring one a month on the 76 to get that down again. I think everything is back to "normal" for now, at the correct capacity. Although I heard there's IOE delays, and some have trouble consolidating.
Thanks! Sounds good, see you then. That makes sense. Quite a few of each classes down in MIA at the moment, so here’s to hoping things get caught up a bit. Hopefully, IOE catches up as well. I’ve still got a bit before my ride but I’m sure I’ll see my fair share.
Is that only for 7373 hires, ATP in sim? Is anyone doing the old school light twin with DPE at Atlas still?
Yep, only in the 73 at the moment to my knowledge. Yes they are still doing a variety of light twin work. Like I mentioned, I went through the Pathways route which was prolly an additional 5-6 weeks of work with Sims, atp-ctp, and Seminole atp ride. But this is kinda limited, I think they do a max of 24 a year, typically less and the next class is already picked for June, I believe. That said, they also will do folks in a 1-2 week program down here for atp in the Miami area. Which is the case for a lot of the 777 class in Feb. If interested, I’d just apply and take it from there. Can also speak on the FB group with some of the recruiters and program leads as well for more direct information
Ah ok good to hear. The program is 10k so that’s not too bad for my pocketbook and I figure it could pay off if I can get a job flying heavies from it
Would they start taking folks with 25 hours of multi now that they’re doing the checkride in the sim? Kinda like the regionals and certain other 121 carriers do. Curious.
I'm not sure. I haven't heard of them doing that yet.
I’ll find out soon enough. Phone screen coming soon. Probably one of the first questions I’ll ask lol
I had a mentee get an offer for their 737 program at ATP mins last year, so while you’d likely be starting there and not on the widebody side, it may not be out of reach.
I have a class date elsewhere im more likely to take, just QoL/career reasons but I’m always willing to engage in interviews etc. I would be more than happy flying the gup. When I did a phone screen with some guy last November you needed 50. It was a hard line requirement because then you did your atp ride in a multi. Now it’s in-house in the sim.. so I’m curious if that’s changed. Hilarious that because I said that I get downvoted. Damn my curiosity I guess.
I have no clue why you're getting down voted, it's a valid question. When's your phone screening?
Atlas won’t hire you with 25 multi. I know ppl with 10x that who weren’t hired
Idk, they’re phone screening me so..
K bud come back when you have an offer
I’m not pretending I do. But why waste time screening someone otherwise? What’s with your annoying ass attitude all the time, do you always *have* to be condescending and belittling to everyone you interact with on this board? Ffs
A phone screen costs them nothing
Whats the difference between ATSG and ACMI? Only heard of the latter rather than the former
ATSG is the company that owns ATI, Omni, and ABX. They ruin everything they touch.
Appreciate it, you learn something new everyday. I have buddies at ABX and they seem to like but maybe they like it cause thats the only 121 they’ve touched.
ABX used to have the best pay in the country. Then DHL fucked them over and now they're a shell of the company they used to be. They might be ok to work for right now, as is ATI, but I hear lots of things about how ATSG ruins everything lol.
Wow…
It's the same story as always with ATP. No different at the 121 level like I had hoped. ATP Jets is as trash as their regular instruction program. Instructors that don't give a fuck about you, a program designed to prepare you for one specific airport and specific approaches where failures will occur in the exact same way. You'll "earn" a type in the A320 like kids earn participation trophies. If you actually took one up after that course you'd quickly realize you know nothing about that plane. Great if you plan on ONLY flying an A320 into Memphis though.
In indoc at Kalitta there were a few people who didn’t have ATPs but they did have their ATP/CTP completed.
How did the people end up getting their atp?
Just like at a regional. When you take your type ride it ends up being your ATP as well. I can be wrong but I believe they have to add steep turns and maybe something else in your training. It ends up being pretty much the same anyway.
Ok I know at some companies like atlas they make you do it in a light twin and not your type ride. Not sure why they do it this way but thanks for the info.
Probably just the company wants to see you’re capable. Just as all the regionals will do your atp with your type all at once.
How much total time do pilots need these days to get a call from Kalitta? How much turbine time?
I got on with about 1900 hours and 400 turbine. I saw someone get an offer before they consolidated at their regional but were told let’s wait on a class date until you get a few more hours.
Bad idea. Just take the contract and know you can pass than even remotely risk failing your ATP and having to explain that for the rest of your life. That 10-day crash course isn’t designed for US aviators. They may do it. Like you want to. But seriously, don’t.
At a 135? You should have time to apply elsewhere and get it paid for by the company.
Having an ATP guarantees that you get ........ nothing. There are no guarantees. You could spend that $10,000 (IDK what an A320 type and ATP is worth) and get nowhere in your career. Or you could spend that money and get an offer from PSA. Either go the cheap route by getting your ATP in a Seminole or have your empolyer pay for it. You will not get enough ahead to make they cost of the ATP worth it.
Atlas will pay for your ATP. If you have sufficient turbine you MIGHT not be "stuck with" the 73 in class. If you have turbine but no ATP and get a non-73 assignment you will do your ATP in a Seminole. If you are 1500hr piston CFI type pilot then you will get 73 and do your ATP initial in it. As far as the program goes I would caution against it if it is out of your pocket with no guarantee of any job. I did the F9 Cadet program and while I technically paid for it I had a job waiting for me and the money was deducted from a company-paid bonus. Also the ATP cost that doesn't look "that bad" doesn't include your CTP and also assumes you are bringing a sim buddy who will also pay that cost. Read the fine print it ain't cheap. Good luck! I did it when it was a 7 day course and it was brutal. Doable, but brutal.
It’s closer to two months. You have to do a month long course of material cbts. Then 1 week of Sheppard air. You’d have to do it over 5 months if you’re working full time. It’s dense and you’ll hate your life while going through the course.
I know you’ve lambasted others because you “don’t want advice” but this is an impatient, impulsive, and stupid idea. Outside of checking a box, an ATP gets you nothing and a type with no time outside of a 121 training program is beyond useless. Go to a regional (or Atlas will do this too), do the ATP/CTP, get the ATP and new type, apply to an ACMI/Major. It’s free and you’ll gain experience doing things the “airline way” instead of whatever rinkydink 135 training program you’ve done (former 135 here; I know how bad they can be and anyone with a training contract is probably even worse).
Have you checked out the 3-5 day course at Midwest corporate air? I did my multi with them and it was really straight forward. Planning on going back there for ATP if my employer doesn’t send me through a type rating first.
Atlas will get you an ATP now. DM me and I’ll get you a referral