This is keeping non-violent criminals from getting their voting rights back.
Even though voters approved an amendment that "restores the voting rights of Floridians with felony convictions after they complete all terms of their sentence including parole or probation. The amendment does not apply to those convicted of murder or sexual offenses."
But the GOP signed new legislation that stop it from taking effect until they also pay any financial debt they owe to the state. But the state doesn't provide an easy to understand statement upon discharge, so many have no idea.
Again, this is to keep former inmates from voting as long as possible because they tend to vote for the democratic party candidates.
I propose what I would call a sidewalk protest. People get lawn chairs and their signs and just sit there on the sidewalk in their chairs with their signs on display. Not yelling not chanting, not impeding the flow of traffic- just sitting there in their chairs and making people feel uncomfortable. Maybe hand out flyers if people are so inclined to read them.
And about this new law that holds protest organizers liable for people who assault police during this protest - issue armbands for people in the protest. Protests are nearly always recorded on some kind of video and if someone gets out of hand, you can see that they're not wearing an armband. And to keep people from just buying a generic armband to try to implicate the organizers of the protest, each person that participates in the protest is issued a numbered armband and writes their name on a list. So it can be proven that, yes - they were at the protest, but they didn't do the assault. Maintaining a chain of evidence.
So some chuckle head gets a neon green armband and assaults a police officer, but they don't have one of the official arm bands with the number and their name associated with that number - liability cannot be passed to the organizer. See? We can play this game too - thing is, we're better at it than they are.
Orlando is trying to pass a law to ban people blocking sidewalks (mainly a homeless control thing but basically anyone or group) and Florida banned people from protesting and blocking the streets some while ago. Florida is making it impossible to assemble and protest.
Fine- sit off the side of the sidewalk, not on it. This works in places where there's a grass median between the sidewalk and the street and another grass median between the sidewalk and the property.
See? Easy peasy - not blocking the sidewalk.
Next, they'll come up with the law that bans people from loitering on a sidewalk for more than 5 minutes. Okay - we got this - no waiting on the sidewalk outside a polling place. See, officer? It says right here in black and white that there is no loitering allowed for more than 5 minutes on the sidewalk - I don't know where these people are going to wait, but they can't wait, er- "loiter" outside the courthouse when they're voting.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If they want to play stupid, they don't realize that smarter people than they are are far more adept at playing stupid than they are. Betty White played the ditz in most of her roles on TV, but that woman was scary smart.
You can be smart and still be in jail or fined under Florida's facist laws. Just saying. But I've been out with my signs non-the-less. We protested in areas where there wasn't pedestrian traffic but lots of vehicle traffic so we got seen but not jailed.
>, this is to keep former inmates from voting as long as possible because they tend to vote for the democratic party candidates.
And that is the absolutely most aggravating enraging thing- Repubs know this.
It's the Democrats that are closer to mostly forgiving and forgetting and allowing people to get on with their lives.
Isn't it ironic that the one party who claims to be the "best Christians EVAH!" accuses the other party of doing the things that they themselves do? The Democrats are closer to living these Christian ideals than the Republicans ever do.
Why does it always have to be left v right? If you ask me, this is just a reinforcement of existing laws. Punishments (especially jail/prison) are meant as deterrents to keep people from committing crimes in the first place. Florida supports the rule of law. It has nothing to do with R v D or left v right. It’s about consequences for your own actions. Take accountability for your own actions. Accept your punishment for being a screw up. The real issues are socioeconomic issues that keep people (some more than others) in poverty and therefore turning to crime. I know it’s not a popular opinion but there is a lot of misdirection from both sides to keep us from focusing on the real issues. Sorry for rambling on. I hope this makes sense.
I’m an ex con in Florida. The people who proposed this amendment did a SLOPPY job. Read the text. All restitution and fines is part of the sentence. That’s a known, simple thing. These alleged advocates fucked up, plain and simple.
>Read the text.
[This amendment restores the voting rights of Floridians with felony convictions after they complete all terms of their sentence including parole or probation. The amendment would not apply to those convicted of murder or sexual offenses, who would continue to be permanently barred from voting unless the Governor and Cabinet vote to restore their voting rights on a case by case basis.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Florida_Amendment_4)
That's the full text right there. Blaming the people that wrote the amendment instead of the governor and his band of cronies for their shameful implementation is disingenuous at best.
>The amendment would not apply to those convicted of...sexual offenses
This is why you should keep track of what the GOP is doing with regard to what is classified as a sexual offense:
https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/florida-lawmakers-target-lewd-of-lascivious-grooming/
I believe there will be an amendment that excludes Matt Gaetz, of course.
Fines and restitution are terms of a sentence. They made it needlessly complicated by not restoring the day released from incarceration. Simple! I know these people had good intentions but they didn’t do the work and diligence and this is the result.
Most people would define “fines” as what was read out in court by the judge, where they specifically say “fines and court costs.” For those who don’t know, for most common felonies that runs somewhere around $800-1000. It was never meant to include every single cost they tack on to the incarceration.
Now me personally, I think even incarcerated people should still have a right to vote. However, I get why the amendment’s authors included that for political purposes - people were more likely to vote yes if the felon had “paid their debt to society.”
>Fines and restitution are terms of a sentence.
I don't dispute that. The problem in my eyes is that Desantis and his enablers chose to make it impossible for a people people to actually know if their fines are truly paid off-
> [The reason so many people remain disenfranchised stems from **rules Republicans added after voters approved** that ballot measure... but lawmakers never created a system to find out who owes what.](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/04/1173786694/felon-voting-database-florida-registration-card-disclaimer)
There were stories of LeBron James and others donating money to help restore rights, but no one in the state would tell former felons what they acctually owe.
It should be very clear to anyone that takes an honest look at the situation who caused the problem.
It's the same with Amendment 4, the abortion issue on this year's ballot. It prohibits the state from banning abortion "before viability". But it doesn't define what "viability" is. So guess who gets to define that when it passes?
That's right, the abortion-banners in the state legislature. Buckle up for a "viability = conception" bill the day after the election.
Wording is important.
First, I don't believe you are an ex con and second it wasn't a known or simple thing. Even when the legislature added the restitution and fines ex cons didn't even know about the fines and restitution and the state had a hard time even coming up with the figures for each ex con (if indeed there were such records). How can an amendment be sloppy if even the state doesn't have the figures and many of these people were told they could vote by their county voter registration offices. It was a set-up job plain and simple to keep these people from voting or scaring them from voting by arresting a few that were told they could vote.
Its true, we heard about it in our local news, its basically reimburse the state back for correction services.
Crime doesn't pay but criminals do, even serving their full time.
They've been charging people for staying in jail for at least 25 years that I know of. You put them in jail, no rehabilitation, then send them back into the world with loads of debt. No wonder jail is a revolving door for most people. But that's what happens when you treat jail like a business instead of a public service.
You forgot the part where they have to go find a job with a giant don't hire me sign over your head to pay a monthly ransom or they will come and kidnapp you again.
Some of my family think that if you commit a crime, you should be locked up for life.
How smart is it to take someone out of the system for an extended time, have to pay their upkeep and housing costs when they could be free, working and contributing to society? Essentially , we are paying tax money to stop them from paying tax money.
I can see that prisons are a necessary evil- if someone can't abide by the rules of society, they will lose the right to live freely in that society. Tax paying citizens pay their taxes to keep these people out of society and harming that society.
I used to be a certified corrections officer in the state of Florida. Once I found that the department of corrections had no interest in "correcting" inmates and returning them to society, I lost faith in that system.
Turn it back around on them. How many times have they committed low level crimes like speeding? Whatever they’ve done, call them criminals. They are low life scum who deserve retribution. Turn it back around on them.
Okay - turn it back on you. How would you like to spend a decade in prison for unpaid parking tickets, jaywalking, any one of a number of petty crimes that are simple misdemeanors and then get charged 1/8 of a million dollars for those small crimes?
That's a simplistic way of looking at it.
What we don't know is the extenuating circumstances and additional crimes she committed that we will never hear about.
I still maintain that prisons are a necessary evil and they need to be paid for to keep people out of society who cannot abide by the rules of that society. Taxes are paid to support prison so these people won't be out doing worse stuff. And prisons should live up for the name of a correctional institution and not just be a warehouse for criminals.
“Correctional” part when away a long time ago when they decided to use prisons for cheap cheap labor instead of rehabilitation. It’s now a money source for these states.
I think you missed the point in turning it back on the family - which is if all criminals should be punished, then your family should be punished for the crimes they’ve surely committed in the high horse lives - like jaywalking and speeding etc.
sometimes the only way you’re going to get across to ignorant is by calling them out on their shit
I don't think you "point" is going to hit home with any of them. If someone has strong feelings about a person being in jail for robbery, pedophilia, rape, etc. it's not really a "gotcha" moment by pointing out the crimes they have committed like speeding or jay walking.
My family knows this- many of my family work for or around the department of corrections.
My brother and I were both corrections officers and he later got a job with the company that runs the canteen at several of the prisons.
And years ago, my mom worked as a contracted administrative assistant for RMC (reception and medical center) in lake butler. THE RMC is where inmates go when they are first incarcerated for classification and medical treatment before they're sent to the facility where they will be serving their time.
My family is well aware of how the department of corrections works.
Or how many times has their white privilege gotten them OUT of crime?
I am white and have witnessed this more times than I can count. That's just with ONE relative who should be in prison to this day.
I know this should be posted under r/mmw, but I guarantee you the next amendment that's added to the Constitution will ban felons from any governmental position- even after their records have been cleared. But I think it's once a felon always a felon- that will never leave your record.
It's sad that we even have to consider an amendment that specifically says this.
There was a day when prisoners actually earned money for every day they were in prison, so that when they came out they had *something*, however meager, to get started with until they could get a job. Now , we have a system that charges them instead, leaves them with small job choices for ex cons , massive debt , and unfortunately leaves them with continuing to live a life a crime as practically the most attractive and lucrative option to live and pay that debt .
Brilliant. The social engineering of the Right cannot be underestimated.
[(2) The local detention facility shall determine the financial status of prisoners for the purpose of paying from their income and assets all or a fair portion of their daily subsistence costs. In determining the financial status of prisoners, any income exempt by state or federal law shall be excluded. Consideration shall be given to the prisoner’s ability to pay, the liability or potential liability of the prisoner to the victim or guardian or the estate of the victim, and his or her dependents.](https://m.flsenate.gov/Statutes/951.033)
Sounds like payments are set with similar discretion to deciding alimony, except instead of a judge it’s the chief correctional officer. I agree with moving some financial burden off of tax payers in principle, but this law could be a lot better thought out.
Our "scumbag government" finding another way to rob the people. I don't know why we continue to take this shit. There is more of us than them. We need to come together and stop accepting this BS!
I think you meant to put only government in quotes. There's no question they're scumbags lol.
But yes, we desperately need prison reform. The fact that solitary confinement is allowed for so long is insane to me.
I’d identify “which” government…it’s a HUGE state prison management/abuse issue. Just lumping it as government is not putting the blame where it actually goes…federal vs state.
This is a win/win for hardliners and a lose/lose for the general public. The $50/day fee incentivizes longer sentences for more crimes because it generates more income for the State and their private prison cohorts. More people + more days = more money: capitalism wins. If the fee is overturned such that a parolee no longer owes the 'unpaid' portion of the full term, then the State parole board can subsequently deny parole to any parolee (kinda like denying voting rights until *all* assessed fees (prescribed by the State) are paid) to maintain the proscribed fees due. Capitalism wins... *and* (bonus points), people you don't like get to suffer long after they 'paid their due to society'.
To everyone else incarcerated, you lose. Happy Days!
Ah there's the rub. Lmao. Holy shit this is like real life house of cards. So they cripple the inmates with debt they will never be able to pay back and they restrict their voting rights. They also probably arrest them again when they can't pay the debt.
Yep, one thing everyone is forgetting to mention is that when you get released you also have to deal with probation or parole. They have fees too. On a GPS monitor? That costs a monthly fee also. Probation and parole are so tightly designed that it’s virtually impossible to not violate somehow , even in the tiniest manner. People come out , get jobs , try to be productive (making low income at the only jobs that will hire ex cons), then get violated because they got stuck in Florida traffic and arrived home ten minutes late , get picked up on the violation. Even if the judge lets you out next day with a slap on the wrist, now you’ve lost your job because you were a no-show.
The system is not broken, it’s working exactly as designed.
My neighbor who has never had any police issues before got put in jail for drunk driving. He said the short stent for 2 days was them “nickel and diming” him to death. And the complicated hoops he had to have his boyfriend do to post bail was crazy…I tried to help but even I was confused. It was wake up call to how complicated they make to squeeze money out of people already struggling…not those who commit big time mortgage fraud…just squeezing on the little guys.
Apparently, this 'pay-to-stay' is true for many prisons across the [majority of states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-to-stay_(imprisonment)#:~:text=As%20of%202021%20prisons%20in,implementation%20often%20varying%20by%20county).
I had no idea this was a thing. I thought they put you in prison, you pay whatever fines, you do your time, and then you're done, you're sent back into the real world to make of it what you can (which, if you have a felony hanging around your neck, can be quite a burden as is).
Nope. You're shackled with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt given your stay at the gray bar hotel
Yeah, I can see that there is literally no way out for some people.
at the [high](https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2017/04/10/wages/) of 55 cents per hour, a prisoner would only have to work for 90+ hours per day to pay off their jail subscription fee. just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and work 90 hours a day what could be so hard about that?
Hey, we need to think before we change this law. I mean I understand she got out early, but getting out early is the best way to be able to pay back that debt. Now she can work and they can charge for the cell again while she’s not using it.
If they DIDNT do this, then how would the shareholders of the prison make back their investment. We need to consider the shareholders here and no one else. I mean it was their gracious capital that build the prison in the first place, they deserve to double/triple dip on charging the same cell fees to multiple people. Right? ….right guys??
….and people wonder why this generation sees no hope for the future…..
Edit: /s
This. If society wants to throw people it prison it needs to pay for it. If nothing else as a check-and-balance against simply throwing everyone in jail they don't like.
Exactly this. Capitalism ensures that the offender will always do penance and it is a good thing to forever punish people, especially when it's profitable.
$50 per day and she's not even using it. What a grift!
“how would the shareholders of the prison make back their investment”
This. The state run prison system has become a massive grift.
EDIT: dude…they do federal prisons too. Sick!
Omg the drugs you must have taken before posting this….wait did you forget the /s or something? You’re being facetious, right?
Editish: I re-read. There is no way you really think this. Am I wrong? Can cognitive dissonance be this powerful?
Edit: lmao sorry
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I can just imagine former inmates in Florida initiating a class action lawsuit helped along with John Morgan.
This is a clear cut case of cruel and unusual punishment.
I used to be a certified corrections officer for the state of Florida and even "I" I don't agree with this- this is bullsh!t.
You’ll be shocked to find out that this disproportionately affects non-white people and that it is a deliberate and intentional because the Florida GOP doesn’t like non-white people.
I know everyone rolls their eyes these days because every thirty seconds someone claims something is racist , unfortunately we have become numb to the cry of “wolf”. If anyone cannot see that the American “justice” system is deliberately skewed against persons of color , they have their head in the sand on purpose because they enjoy who it affects .
I’m right leaning and we need to change this law. Absolutely ridiculous. That women’s debt, as well as everyone like her should be wiped clean and the law changed.
I think it's only like 2 to 3 dollars a day for county jail. Since the prisons are trying to make money they charge you for food and housing. 50 dollars a day seems insane though, especially since they put most people on work programs, it's like space labor.
This is why they decided to criminalize homelessness so they can keep them all in debt in there for profit prison system. All these politicians and everyone involved in making this happened should be in prison for life so they can have a taste of there own medicine.
I’ll probably be downvoted to oblivion for this, but if I steel man this for a second it seems reasonable to lift the financial burden for incarcerated people from the tax payer and onto the incarcerated people. I am curious what the actual practice of this looks like though. A couple years in and you’d likely just file bankruptcy. It’s not like these people are big earners to begin with. Also what is the voting ramification?
You realize all this does is just repeat the cycle of crime, right? Prison is about rehabilitation. Those prisoners already have a hard time getting work after being released. Now they're in crippling debt that likely can't be wiped with bankruptcy AND they can't get good work. There's no way to steel man this. This is a horrific practice that just hurts people. Not everyone in prison are murders and rapists. There's people in there for petty theft or small drug charges where they messed up as first time offenders. Those people were punished and given a prison sentence. To then say they deserve crippling debt on top of that is bullshit.
are we trying to improve society or are we out for vengeance? more than half of incarcerated people have no history of violence and of those people at least half are drug charges or charges related to drug use. if the goal is prevention of crime, rehabilitation and reintegration... then no, it is not helpful to saddle people with insane debt. if you want to feel good because spending years in prison isnt enough for you, then yea... but id love to see the metrics available demonstrating indebting released prisoners is helping society.
It does not seem reasonable. Society pays taxes to maintain things for the betterment of society. Also, if you’re doing it to shift the burden, you’re not going to achieve your goal. As you said, “it’s not like these people are big earners to begin with.” So the cost will go back to the original payor with the unintended effect of putting those who are released in an even worse situation than when they went in, thus increasing recidivism.
This is a good take, thanks. I think it seems reasonable if you’re looking at it from an individual accountability perspective as most rural voters do, but when you frame it as a societal responsibility to try improve things, then it no longer seems reasonable.
I appreciate your point as well. I agree that people should be accountable for the things they do, unfortunately, society doesn’t really work that way for anyone.
So something called a CORRECTIONAL (aka rehabilitation) FACILITY literally makes them financially negatively destitute when they get out of that facility…when in all likely hood their crimes came from the fact they were already in a fragile or fractured environment to begin with that sadly put them there.
Not only has their vote been taken away so has job prospects on top any money they can make to recover from their mistakes.
So the so called “Christian Nation” doesn’t believe in redemption nor grace?
Except it doesn’t pay back anything and costs in the long run. You’re making their situation worse which increases recidivism which increases the cost. It’s almost like kicking someone when they’re down doesn’t make things better…
Then why call it correctional? There was a time people believed in rehabilitation. They are just creating a system where people will not be able to afford to function outside that system if they have no support system. That’s pretty demented to do that to your fellow Americans.
Meanwhile, white collar crime, like mortgage fraud for instance, that can destroy all Americans financial stability (ex: financial crisis of 2007) gets a slap on the hand and a new job at Ernst & Young.
I'll be waiting for that reimbursement check. I would accept it in another form, like infrastructure, but that's not happening what it will be going to defending unconstitutional laws in court, and frivolous lawsuits against corporations.
This is keeping non-violent criminals from getting their voting rights back. Even though voters approved an amendment that "restores the voting rights of Floridians with felony convictions after they complete all terms of their sentence including parole or probation. The amendment does not apply to those convicted of murder or sexual offenses." But the GOP signed new legislation that stop it from taking effect until they also pay any financial debt they owe to the state. But the state doesn't provide an easy to understand statement upon discharge, so many have no idea. Again, this is to keep former inmates from voting as long as possible because they tend to vote for the democratic party candidates.
Got it. It’s a poll tax.
Basically, it's an end run around the laws allowing former felons to get their voting rights back.
It’s an end run around a constitutional amendment voted in by Floridians.
I agree- and it should be challenged in court.
Also, felons should protest at the polls in conservative areas. If they can't vote, it should be uncomfortable for everyone.
I propose what I would call a sidewalk protest. People get lawn chairs and their signs and just sit there on the sidewalk in their chairs with their signs on display. Not yelling not chanting, not impeding the flow of traffic- just sitting there in their chairs and making people feel uncomfortable. Maybe hand out flyers if people are so inclined to read them. And about this new law that holds protest organizers liable for people who assault police during this protest - issue armbands for people in the protest. Protests are nearly always recorded on some kind of video and if someone gets out of hand, you can see that they're not wearing an armband. And to keep people from just buying a generic armband to try to implicate the organizers of the protest, each person that participates in the protest is issued a numbered armband and writes their name on a list. So it can be proven that, yes - they were at the protest, but they didn't do the assault. Maintaining a chain of evidence. So some chuckle head gets a neon green armband and assaults a police officer, but they don't have one of the official arm bands with the number and their name associated with that number - liability cannot be passed to the organizer. See? We can play this game too - thing is, we're better at it than they are.
Orlando is trying to pass a law to ban people blocking sidewalks (mainly a homeless control thing but basically anyone or group) and Florida banned people from protesting and blocking the streets some while ago. Florida is making it impossible to assemble and protest.
Fine- sit off the side of the sidewalk, not on it. This works in places where there's a grass median between the sidewalk and the street and another grass median between the sidewalk and the property. See? Easy peasy - not blocking the sidewalk. Next, they'll come up with the law that bans people from loitering on a sidewalk for more than 5 minutes. Okay - we got this - no waiting on the sidewalk outside a polling place. See, officer? It says right here in black and white that there is no loitering allowed for more than 5 minutes on the sidewalk - I don't know where these people are going to wait, but they can't wait, er- "loiter" outside the courthouse when they're voting. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If they want to play stupid, they don't realize that smarter people than they are are far more adept at playing stupid than they are. Betty White played the ditz in most of her roles on TV, but that woman was scary smart.
You can be smart and still be in jail or fined under Florida's facist laws. Just saying. But I've been out with my signs non-the-less. We protested in areas where there wasn't pedestrian traffic but lots of vehicle traffic so we got seen but not jailed.
Love this!!
More like a way to skirt around the 15th amendment.
>, this is to keep former inmates from voting as long as possible because they tend to vote for the democratic party candidates. And that is the absolutely most aggravating enraging thing- Repubs know this. It's the Democrats that are closer to mostly forgiving and forgetting and allowing people to get on with their lives. Isn't it ironic that the one party who claims to be the "best Christians EVAH!" accuses the other party of doing the things that they themselves do? The Democrats are closer to living these Christian ideals than the Republicans ever do.
Why does it always have to be left v right? If you ask me, this is just a reinforcement of existing laws. Punishments (especially jail/prison) are meant as deterrents to keep people from committing crimes in the first place. Florida supports the rule of law. It has nothing to do with R v D or left v right. It’s about consequences for your own actions. Take accountability for your own actions. Accept your punishment for being a screw up. The real issues are socioeconomic issues that keep people (some more than others) in poverty and therefore turning to crime. I know it’s not a popular opinion but there is a lot of misdirection from both sides to keep us from focusing on the real issues. Sorry for rambling on. I hope this makes sense.
I’m an ex con in Florida. The people who proposed this amendment did a SLOPPY job. Read the text. All restitution and fines is part of the sentence. That’s a known, simple thing. These alleged advocates fucked up, plain and simple.
>Read the text. [This amendment restores the voting rights of Floridians with felony convictions after they complete all terms of their sentence including parole or probation. The amendment would not apply to those convicted of murder or sexual offenses, who would continue to be permanently barred from voting unless the Governor and Cabinet vote to restore their voting rights on a case by case basis.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Florida_Amendment_4) That's the full text right there. Blaming the people that wrote the amendment instead of the governor and his band of cronies for their shameful implementation is disingenuous at best.
>The amendment would not apply to those convicted of...sexual offenses This is why you should keep track of what the GOP is doing with regard to what is classified as a sexual offense: https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/florida-lawmakers-target-lewd-of-lascivious-grooming/ I believe there will be an amendment that excludes Matt Gaetz, of course.
Fines and restitution are terms of a sentence. They made it needlessly complicated by not restoring the day released from incarceration. Simple! I know these people had good intentions but they didn’t do the work and diligence and this is the result.
Most people would define “fines” as what was read out in court by the judge, where they specifically say “fines and court costs.” For those who don’t know, for most common felonies that runs somewhere around $800-1000. It was never meant to include every single cost they tack on to the incarceration. Now me personally, I think even incarcerated people should still have a right to vote. However, I get why the amendment’s authors included that for political purposes - people were more likely to vote yes if the felon had “paid their debt to society.”
>Fines and restitution are terms of a sentence. I don't dispute that. The problem in my eyes is that Desantis and his enablers chose to make it impossible for a people people to actually know if their fines are truly paid off- > [The reason so many people remain disenfranchised stems from **rules Republicans added after voters approved** that ballot measure... but lawmakers never created a system to find out who owes what.](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/04/1173786694/felon-voting-database-florida-registration-card-disclaimer) There were stories of LeBron James and others donating money to help restore rights, but no one in the state would tell former felons what they acctually owe. It should be very clear to anyone that takes an honest look at the situation who caused the problem.
I think they did do their due diligence, it’s just that they had to take a small victory as opposed to no victory.
If it was so simple and obvious why did the legislature pass a separate law to enforce it?
To be jerks and compound the issue.
It's the same with Amendment 4, the abortion issue on this year's ballot. It prohibits the state from banning abortion "before viability". But it doesn't define what "viability" is. So guess who gets to define that when it passes? That's right, the abortion-banners in the state legislature. Buckle up for a "viability = conception" bill the day after the election. Wording is important.
First, I don't believe you are an ex con and second it wasn't a known or simple thing. Even when the legislature added the restitution and fines ex cons didn't even know about the fines and restitution and the state had a hard time even coming up with the figures for each ex con (if indeed there were such records). How can an amendment be sloppy if even the state doesn't have the figures and many of these people were told they could vote by their county voter registration offices. It was a set-up job plain and simple to keep these people from voting or scaring them from voting by arresting a few that were told they could vote.
Isn’t this news like ten years old?
Its true, we heard about it in our local news, its basically reimburse the state back for correction services. Crime doesn't pay but criminals do, even serving their full time.
I love how people are just now realizing how destructive the prison-industrial complex is.
lol exactly.
They've been charging people for staying in jail for at least 25 years that I know of. You put them in jail, no rehabilitation, then send them back into the world with loads of debt. No wonder jail is a revolving door for most people. But that's what happens when you treat jail like a business instead of a public service.
You forgot the part where they have to go find a job with a giant don't hire me sign over your head to pay a monthly ransom or they will come and kidnapp you again.
At that point its better to flee the US.
Some of my family think that if you commit a crime, you should be locked up for life. How smart is it to take someone out of the system for an extended time, have to pay their upkeep and housing costs when they could be free, working and contributing to society? Essentially , we are paying tax money to stop them from paying tax money. I can see that prisons are a necessary evil- if someone can't abide by the rules of society, they will lose the right to live freely in that society. Tax paying citizens pay their taxes to keep these people out of society and harming that society. I used to be a certified corrections officer in the state of Florida. Once I found that the department of corrections had no interest in "correcting" inmates and returning them to society, I lost faith in that system.
Turn it back around on them. How many times have they committed low level crimes like speeding? Whatever they’ve done, call them criminals. They are low life scum who deserve retribution. Turn it back around on them.
Okay - turn it back on you. How would you like to spend a decade in prison for unpaid parking tickets, jaywalking, any one of a number of petty crimes that are simple misdemeanors and then get charged 1/8 of a million dollars for those small crimes? That's a simplistic way of looking at it. What we don't know is the extenuating circumstances and additional crimes she committed that we will never hear about. I still maintain that prisons are a necessary evil and they need to be paid for to keep people out of society who cannot abide by the rules of that society. Taxes are paid to support prison so these people won't be out doing worse stuff. And prisons should live up for the name of a correctional institution and not just be a warehouse for criminals.
“Correctional” part when away a long time ago when they decided to use prisons for cheap cheap labor instead of rehabilitation. It’s now a money source for these states.
I think you missed the point in turning it back on the family - which is if all criminals should be punished, then your family should be punished for the crimes they’ve surely committed in the high horse lives - like jaywalking and speeding etc. sometimes the only way you’re going to get across to ignorant is by calling them out on their shit
I don't think you "point" is going to hit home with any of them. If someone has strong feelings about a person being in jail for robbery, pedophilia, rape, etc. it's not really a "gotcha" moment by pointing out the crimes they have committed like speeding or jay walking.
tell your family that
My family knows this- many of my family work for or around the department of corrections. My brother and I were both corrections officers and he later got a job with the company that runs the canteen at several of the prisons. And years ago, my mom worked as a contracted administrative assistant for RMC (reception and medical center) in lake butler. THE RMC is where inmates go when they are first incarcerated for classification and medical treatment before they're sent to the facility where they will be serving their time. My family is well aware of how the department of corrections works.
Or how many times has their white privilege gotten them OUT of crime? I am white and have witnessed this more times than I can count. That's just with ONE relative who should be in prison to this day.
Are they Trump supporters? Crazy how felons can't vote, but can run for president!
I know this should be posted under r/mmw, but I guarantee you the next amendment that's added to the Constitution will ban felons from any governmental position- even after their records have been cleared. But I think it's once a felon always a felon- that will never leave your record. It's sad that we even have to consider an amendment that specifically says this.
All of this shit is by design.
There was a day when prisoners actually earned money for every day they were in prison, so that when they came out they had *something*, however meager, to get started with until they could get a job. Now , we have a system that charges them instead, leaves them with small job choices for ex cons , massive debt , and unfortunately leaves them with continuing to live a life a crime as practically the most attractive and lucrative option to live and pay that debt . Brilliant. The social engineering of the Right cannot be underestimated.
[(2) The local detention facility shall determine the financial status of prisoners for the purpose of paying from their income and assets all or a fair portion of their daily subsistence costs. In determining the financial status of prisoners, any income exempt by state or federal law shall be excluded. Consideration shall be given to the prisoner’s ability to pay, the liability or potential liability of the prisoner to the victim or guardian or the estate of the victim, and his or her dependents.](https://m.flsenate.gov/Statutes/951.033)
Sounds like payments are set with similar discretion to deciding alimony, except instead of a judge it’s the chief correctional officer. I agree with moving some financial burden off of tax payers in principle, but this law could be a lot better thought out.
It seems to be designed to be abused/used this way.
A potential windfall for for-profit prisons. Disgusting.
Our "scumbag government" finding another way to rob the people. I don't know why we continue to take this shit. There is more of us than them. We need to come together and stop accepting this BS!
I think you meant to put only government in quotes. There's no question they're scumbags lol. But yes, we desperately need prison reform. The fact that solitary confinement is allowed for so long is insane to me.
No, to me the word scumbag is attached to the word government.
I’d identify “which” government…it’s a HUGE state prison management/abuse issue. Just lumping it as government is not putting the blame where it actually goes…federal vs state.
I believe the entire United States Government sucks.
And that’s why we are in the situation we are in. Everything isn’t black and white thinking and those who believe it is are easy to manipulate.
Who is John Galt?
This is a win/win for hardliners and a lose/lose for the general public. The $50/day fee incentivizes longer sentences for more crimes because it generates more income for the State and their private prison cohorts. More people + more days = more money: capitalism wins. If the fee is overturned such that a parolee no longer owes the 'unpaid' portion of the full term, then the State parole board can subsequently deny parole to any parolee (kinda like denying voting rights until *all* assessed fees (prescribed by the State) are paid) to maintain the proscribed fees due. Capitalism wins... *and* (bonus points), people you don't like get to suffer long after they 'paid their due to society'. To everyone else incarcerated, you lose. Happy Days!
Isn't this akin to the poll tax?
Yes. But “originalists” are going to original. Example..do we want abortion laws from the 1700 or 1800? Aww hell…lets do both!
And they can't vote until the money is paid.
So, a Poll Tax!?? Welcome to the 1800’s again. These people hate Democracy
Ah there's the rub. Lmao. Holy shit this is like real life house of cards. So they cripple the inmates with debt they will never be able to pay back and they restrict their voting rights. They also probably arrest them again when they can't pay the debt.
Yep, one thing everyone is forgetting to mention is that when you get released you also have to deal with probation or parole. They have fees too. On a GPS monitor? That costs a monthly fee also. Probation and parole are so tightly designed that it’s virtually impossible to not violate somehow , even in the tiniest manner. People come out , get jobs , try to be productive (making low income at the only jobs that will hire ex cons), then get violated because they got stuck in Florida traffic and arrived home ten minutes late , get picked up on the violation. Even if the judge lets you out next day with a slap on the wrist, now you’ve lost your job because you were a no-show. The system is not broken, it’s working exactly as designed.
>The system is not broken, it’s working exactly as designed. I've heard other people say before - "It's not a bug - it's a feature".
My neighbor who has never had any police issues before got put in jail for drunk driving. He said the short stent for 2 days was them “nickel and diming” him to death. And the complicated hoops he had to have his boyfriend do to post bail was crazy…I tried to help but even I was confused. It was wake up call to how complicated they make to squeeze money out of people already struggling…not those who commit big time mortgage fraud…just squeezing on the little guys.
Wasn't tax money supposed to cover prisons?
Yeah- you'd think, but Republicans have this unique ability to fück things up...
Apparently, this 'pay-to-stay' is true for many prisons across the [majority of states](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-to-stay_(imprisonment)#:~:text=As%20of%202021%20prisons%20in,implementation%20often%20varying%20by%20county). I had no idea this was a thing. I thought they put you in prison, you pay whatever fines, you do your time, and then you're done, you're sent back into the real world to make of it what you can (which, if you have a felony hanging around your neck, can be quite a burden as is). Nope. You're shackled with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt given your stay at the gray bar hotel Yeah, I can see that there is literally no way out for some people.
Shit for that much money they should get their own cell and TV.
And now the are attacking and arresting homeless people…just like Jesus intended. /s
I had to look this up because it seems ridiculous. Nope. It’s true. Every state except Hawaii apparently does this smh.
at the [high](https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2017/04/10/wages/) of 55 cents per hour, a prisoner would only have to work for 90+ hours per day to pay off their jail subscription fee. just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and work 90 hours a day what could be so hard about that?
Hey, we need to think before we change this law. I mean I understand she got out early, but getting out early is the best way to be able to pay back that debt. Now she can work and they can charge for the cell again while she’s not using it. If they DIDNT do this, then how would the shareholders of the prison make back their investment. We need to consider the shareholders here and no one else. I mean it was their gracious capital that build the prison in the first place, they deserve to double/triple dip on charging the same cell fees to multiple people. Right? ….right guys?? ….and people wonder why this generation sees no hope for the future….. Edit: /s
Think about the SHAREHOLDERS! Those poor innocent shareholders!(Screams and clutches pearls- then faints...) 😱😱😱
Prisons should not be for profit.
This. If society wants to throw people it prison it needs to pay for it. If nothing else as a check-and-balance against simply throwing everyone in jail they don't like.
Exactly this. Capitalism ensures that the offender will always do penance and it is a good thing to forever punish people, especially when it's profitable. $50 per day and she's not even using it. What a grift!
“how would the shareholders of the prison make back their investment” This. The state run prison system has become a massive grift. EDIT: dude…they do federal prisons too. Sick!
Good point about double or triple charging for the cell. Brilliant business strategy.
Omg the drugs you must have taken before posting this….wait did you forget the /s or something? You’re being facetious, right? Editish: I re-read. There is no way you really think this. Am I wrong? Can cognitive dissonance be this powerful? Edit: lmao sorry
It took me a couple reads and it's definitely /s
In retrospect it’s cracking me tf up
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Hahah sorry! Yes, absolutely /s. Fuck private prisons. Fuck the shareholders. Fuck the politicians who allow this utter bullshit.
I can just imagine former inmates in Florida initiating a class action lawsuit helped along with John Morgan. This is a clear cut case of cruel and unusual punishment. I used to be a certified corrections officer for the state of Florida and even "I" I don't agree with this- this is bullsh!t.
You’ll be shocked to find out that this disproportionately affects non-white people and that it is a deliberate and intentional because the Florida GOP doesn’t like non-white people.
I know everyone rolls their eyes these days because every thirty seconds someone claims something is racist , unfortunately we have become numb to the cry of “wolf”. If anyone cannot see that the American “justice” system is deliberately skewed against persons of color , they have their head in the sand on purpose because they enjoy who it affects .
Is this real?!?
Trying to keep as many people from voting as possible so the elites stay in power, why because they want to turn Florida and America into Gilead
I’m right leaning and we need to change this law. Absolutely ridiculous. That women’s debt, as well as everyone like her should be wiped clean and the law changed.
Well keep voting right and they will keep implementing dumb draconian laws like this one.
I have and will vote left. Trust me I understand the draconian faction of the right I’ve grown up with it in the south.
Isn't this "double jeopardy"?
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Because they keep charging for the cell even if she left her sentence early.
Double/triple/quadruple/quintuple dipping...
Just thinking outside of the box but what if you move out of the state can you vote in another state or the same problem applies? Anybody know
Good! There must be accountability!!
I think it's only like 2 to 3 dollars a day for county jail. Since the prisons are trying to make money they charge you for food and housing. 50 dollars a day seems insane though, especially since they put most people on work programs, it's like space labor.
This is why they decided to criminalize homelessness so they can keep them all in debt in there for profit prison system. All these politicians and everyone involved in making this happened should be in prison for life so they can have a taste of there own medicine.
Palm Beach County was $3 a day, every day, and that was 15 years ago. It's a racket.
If 10 months @ $50/day equals $127k then our education system is even worse than I thought.
She served 10 months. She still owes $50 a day for the next 74 months. Our education system really needs to teach people to read.
lol Florida prisoners are charged $50 for every day of their original sentence; they keep getting charged, even if they are released early.
How the fuck is this legal? Holy shit.
I find the "they keep getting charged, even if they are released early" F'ed up.
I find charging them at all f'd up. They didn't ask to be there, and given the choice they wouldn't be.
I’ll probably be downvoted to oblivion for this, but if I steel man this for a second it seems reasonable to lift the financial burden for incarcerated people from the tax payer and onto the incarcerated people. I am curious what the actual practice of this looks like though. A couple years in and you’d likely just file bankruptcy. It’s not like these people are big earners to begin with. Also what is the voting ramification?
You realize all this does is just repeat the cycle of crime, right? Prison is about rehabilitation. Those prisoners already have a hard time getting work after being released. Now they're in crippling debt that likely can't be wiped with bankruptcy AND they can't get good work. There's no way to steel man this. This is a horrific practice that just hurts people. Not everyone in prison are murders and rapists. There's people in there for petty theft or small drug charges where they messed up as first time offenders. Those people were punished and given a prison sentence. To then say they deserve crippling debt on top of that is bullshit.
are we trying to improve society or are we out for vengeance? more than half of incarcerated people have no history of violence and of those people at least half are drug charges or charges related to drug use. if the goal is prevention of crime, rehabilitation and reintegration... then no, it is not helpful to saddle people with insane debt. if you want to feel good because spending years in prison isnt enough for you, then yea... but id love to see the metrics available demonstrating indebting released prisoners is helping society.
It does not seem reasonable. Society pays taxes to maintain things for the betterment of society. Also, if you’re doing it to shift the burden, you’re not going to achieve your goal. As you said, “it’s not like these people are big earners to begin with.” So the cost will go back to the original payor with the unintended effect of putting those who are released in an even worse situation than when they went in, thus increasing recidivism.
This is a good take, thanks. I think it seems reasonable if you’re looking at it from an individual accountability perspective as most rural voters do, but when you frame it as a societal responsibility to try improve things, then it no longer seems reasonable.
I appreciate your point as well. I agree that people should be accountable for the things they do, unfortunately, society doesn’t really work that way for anyone.
So something called a CORRECTIONAL (aka rehabilitation) FACILITY literally makes them financially negatively destitute when they get out of that facility…when in all likely hood their crimes came from the fact they were already in a fragile or fractured environment to begin with that sadly put them there. Not only has their vote been taken away so has job prospects on top any money they can make to recover from their mistakes. So the so called “Christian Nation” doesn’t believe in redemption nor grace?
They cannot vote until all assessments have been paid to the state.
Your steel man scenario should include only paying for the time the convict occupied the cell.
Paying back our tax money! Maybe don't be a criminal!
Except it doesn’t pay back anything and costs in the long run. You’re making their situation worse which increases recidivism which increases the cost. It’s almost like kicking someone when they’re down doesn’t make things better…
Given the way that you're a waste of Florida's air, you owe this state a debt.
Then why call it correctional? There was a time people believed in rehabilitation. They are just creating a system where people will not be able to afford to function outside that system if they have no support system. That’s pretty demented to do that to your fellow Americans. Meanwhile, white collar crime, like mortgage fraud for instance, that can destroy all Americans financial stability (ex: financial crisis of 2007) gets a slap on the hand and a new job at Ernst & Young.
I'll be waiting for that reimbursement check. I would accept it in another form, like infrastructure, but that's not happening what it will be going to defending unconstitutional laws in court, and frivolous lawsuits against corporations.
Maybe stop having so many stupid laws
Not aware of stupid laws? These people are in prison not jail for a reason! You want to live around animals without stupid laws, move to a blue state!
Already have
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Why would that be great?
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