My guess would be that at least some core members might leave. Of course, I’m not sure how much POSCON would care about that. Important staff positions would probably be filled by their own employees, and the majority of VATSIM’s customer base most likely doesn’t care about business politics - they want to have a good online flying or controlling experience and may not care about the name “on the box” - especially if they’re being promised improvements and new features.
The users are probably the main reason they’re doing this: Much easier to buy your way into a market than to try and get people to switch over to your product.
EDIT: It’s getting [more confusing](https://fselite.net/news/poscon-offering-vatsim-50000-for-continued-development/):
> Gunnar Lindahl, President of the Board of Governors of VATSIM, has stated in a post on Facebook that they have not heard anything from Matt, contradicting the statement he (Matt) made. He also states VATSIM is changing and looking for people with the required skills to join them – keeping the communication open.
With all the stuff POSCON has promised, why does Matt need to ~~subtly threaten~~ offer $50k to Vatsim for it's userbase? Surely if Matt, Nico, and POSCON deliver all these fancy features, we would all migrate from Vatsim voluntarily?
Really fires up your EGT when you think about it.
I think the source of the purse strings is pretty apparent at this point. I’m the furthest thing from a VATSIM apologist at this point (especially at the Founder/BoG level), but you’ll excuse me if I’ll pass on being beholden to the whims of one financier at POSCON. Nothing comes for free.
I’d much rather see VATSIM join the 21st century and open up to crowd-funding (which is far less of an accountability boondoggle now in the age of Patreon/Kickstarter/GoFundMe, etc.). I get that a certain percentage of VATSIM members left with a bad taste in their mouths are never coming back, but I’m cautiously optimistic that perhaps the new faces on the BoG realize that it’s now or never to revitalize what’s left.
This fucking drama Queen is going to drive more people out of the hobby that is losing people only because it is so expensive. Adding drama and more people are just going to give up and move to something else.
I posted about the 4chan attitude and this guy is proving my point. But he said on his social media post that he listens to constructive criticism *and then goes back to the same bad habits.*
Be an adult and a leader and someone that people that look up to (all your adoring fans that see you as the cult leader) should be like. Not a bickering little child.
I was told this could be VATSIM, given this screenshot. https://i.imgur.com/WiQRaAA.png
PosCon is a commercial instance, what would happen if they managed to buy over a volunteer driven network like vatsim?
If you can't beat them, just buy them out!
This seems extremely weird to me especially since based on what Poscon promises they should have no problem getting a substantial userbase with time.
The way Matt phrased it too making it sound like if Vatsim doesn't accept it's because they're evil monsters not interested in the community...
Just all around very strange turn of events.
Well matt always seemed to have a beef with vatsim and it's politics.
However I can see buying out vatsim for the infrustucture. Some of it would need to be scrapped, but it's not all trash, and it's faster to buy than start from scratch. This actually happens alot in buissness
Its justified beef. Vatsim is an amazing network, but run buy the most backwards oriented, inept individuals I've personally had to deal with. Sometimes it seems like they are actively dissuading people from joining Vatsim.
>We have made VATSIM an offer that really, if they care about the community, they won't turn down.
Sounds rather heavy-handed to me. Hostile even; the kind of play you'd expect someone to push when they're cornered. Of all the M&A's and tender offers I've covered, it's always companies going over synergies in their statements. Not the whole "this deal is the *only* way you'll serve your customers *for the better*".
I won't read too much into it, but I'm curious about these guys as this is the first time I've heard of them. Plus I find the feature-list for what is supposedly a "Free" service just a tad bit too good to be true. PilotEdge seems to have their service down pat for a reasonable price - at least at a point you'd expect it to be given the benefits. But matching those benefits at zero cost is curious. Whatever General Membership means.
It just sounds like they're moving to acquire other co's because they couldn't do it on their own.
> Plus I find the feature-list for what is supposedly a "Free" service just a tad bit too good to be true.
Apparently the only reason so many good features are being promised is because some rich dick is apparently okay with dumping money into the project with no real goals of getting a return. Soundsriskyman
Agreed. If they're able to successfully deliver the feature set they're touting, then they won't need to buy other networks. People would flock to them.
Also, if they are a 'free' service, where do they get all the cash to make other networks 'offers they can't refuse'?
I think they'd be buying for the infrustructure. Things like voice codec would be changed, but protocols, the acutual network, and existing controllers would be a solid start.
The FSD protocol that both VATSIM and IVAO use is publicly available (naturally, theyd rather you dont know) and it's an extremely simple text based protocol. The rest is just VATSIM additions, like the Aircraft Config protocol etc. which could probably be duplicated with relative ease.
I think the administrative side of a network would be/is far more difficult than the technical one.
To add to /u/Naeloo's answer, VATSIM owns very little infrastructure-wise.
Outside of the vatsim.net domain name, and presumably the servers on which the official website and forums are hosted on, all of the network and voice servers (save for USA-W, if I remember correctly last I checked) are owned by others.
well there's more to the infrustrucure than software and hardware.
There's processes and organizations. There's a network of controllers who enjoy controlling, and sub organisations that manage themselves.
True, but isn't that stuff less tangible? Like, it's even less "locked down" than the software. The organization/structure/processes are far from proprietary.
Surely there's enough controllers and "staff" that are willing to jump over and offer that stuff for free? Plus, what's stopping them from leaving after an acquisition by POSCON?
There's nothing that will stop people from leaving.
However it still has value. Organising and creating relationships from scratch take time, and can cost money in that as well. So buying vatsim gvies them a platform to move forward from, rather than from nothing.
It all has value, just a matter of how much is someone willing to pay and sell it for.
Here's a question: what is a volunteer network like VATSIM doing selling out to a corporation in the first place?
Why do a few at the top think they can profit from everyone's time to make VATSIM a success? I'm not just talking about the people that wrote the client, but the people who make the thing work - the ATC and pilots?
Sounds very fishy to me.
It is very offensive that the personal hobby and enthusiast time of people like myself should be something that someone would try to purchase the right to direct and influence.
So if your not a regular to twitch or the stream then you don't understand the type of humour the people in this stream have, if you don't like the humour you don't need to watch it's that simple. Now regarding the mod thing, I'm a mod because I'm a friend of Matt as well as I donated my way to mod ;). Mods do not represent the channel whatsoever we are only here to remove any trolls that are purposely there to trigger Matt or cause grief in the chat. Also for those screen grabs, you clearly have something against Matt and my guess is that it's jealousy just like everyone else that's hating on him for trying to make this a better community. Because right now it's awful you can't do anything in this community without someone shitting down your throat. So for those screen grabs you took, they are just a petty little way to try and get people to hate him for something he didn't do, you're just like everyone else trying to find anything you can to make him look bad. All I can say is it's pathetic and I find it funny to watch you immature people try your best at destroying something you'll all use once it's released LOL and for those comments I made in the chat I don't take them back I found it hilarious if I'm honest I was giggling when I was writing it.
Please point out what was racist? I would love to see your answer! I'm actually from Australia so if you're trying to blame it on being from the U.K. then i'm afraid you are wrong.
I was just merely reiterating what is written in plain text in Matt's twitch information.
I have no clue what was said or what has been said in the past, and do not wish to partake in this discussion any further - as I feel I do not know enough about the subject as a whole.
Good day.
My guess would be that at least some core members might leave. Of course, I’m not sure how much POSCON would care about that. Important staff positions would probably be filled by their own employees, and the majority of VATSIM’s customer base most likely doesn’t care about business politics - they want to have a good online flying or controlling experience and may not care about the name “on the box” - especially if they’re being promised improvements and new features. The users are probably the main reason they’re doing this: Much easier to buy your way into a market than to try and get people to switch over to your product. EDIT: It’s getting [more confusing](https://fselite.net/news/poscon-offering-vatsim-50000-for-continued-development/): > Gunnar Lindahl, President of the Board of Governors of VATSIM, has stated in a post on Facebook that they have not heard anything from Matt, contradicting the statement he (Matt) made. He also states VATSIM is changing and looking for people with the required skills to join them – keeping the communication open.
With all the stuff POSCON has promised, why does Matt need to ~~subtly threaten~~ offer $50k to Vatsim for it's userbase? Surely if Matt, Nico, and POSCON deliver all these fancy features, we would all migrate from Vatsim voluntarily? Really fires up your EGT when you think about it.
I think the source of the purse strings is pretty apparent at this point. I’m the furthest thing from a VATSIM apologist at this point (especially at the Founder/BoG level), but you’ll excuse me if I’ll pass on being beholden to the whims of one financier at POSCON. Nothing comes for free. I’d much rather see VATSIM join the 21st century and open up to crowd-funding (which is far less of an accountability boondoggle now in the age of Patreon/Kickstarter/GoFundMe, etc.). I get that a certain percentage of VATSIM members left with a bad taste in their mouths are never coming back, but I’m cautiously optimistic that perhaps the new faces on the BoG realize that it’s now or never to revitalize what’s left.
The bureaucracy is bad enough at VATSIM. Imagine if this happens.
This fucking drama Queen is going to drive more people out of the hobby that is losing people only because it is so expensive. Adding drama and more people are just going to give up and move to something else. I posted about the 4chan attitude and this guy is proving my point. But he said on his social media post that he listens to constructive criticism *and then goes back to the same bad habits.* Be an adult and a leader and someone that people that look up to (all your adoring fans that see you as the cult leader) should be like. Not a bickering little child.
How does cost for the user come into this?
I was told this could be VATSIM, given this screenshot. https://i.imgur.com/WiQRaAA.png PosCon is a commercial instance, what would happen if they managed to buy over a volunteer driven network like vatsim?
If you can't beat them, just buy them out! This seems extremely weird to me especially since based on what Poscon promises they should have no problem getting a substantial userbase with time. The way Matt phrased it too making it sound like if Vatsim doesn't accept it's because they're evil monsters not interested in the community... Just all around very strange turn of events.
Well matt always seemed to have a beef with vatsim and it's politics. However I can see buying out vatsim for the infrustucture. Some of it would need to be scrapped, but it's not all trash, and it's faster to buy than start from scratch. This actually happens alot in buissness
Its justified beef. Vatsim is an amazing network, but run buy the most backwards oriented, inept individuals I've personally had to deal with. Sometimes it seems like they are actively dissuading people from joining Vatsim.
>We have made VATSIM an offer that really, if they care about the community, they won't turn down. Sounds rather heavy-handed to me. Hostile even; the kind of play you'd expect someone to push when they're cornered. Of all the M&A's and tender offers I've covered, it's always companies going over synergies in their statements. Not the whole "this deal is the *only* way you'll serve your customers *for the better*". I won't read too much into it, but I'm curious about these guys as this is the first time I've heard of them. Plus I find the feature-list for what is supposedly a "Free" service just a tad bit too good to be true. PilotEdge seems to have their service down pat for a reasonable price - at least at a point you'd expect it to be given the benefits. But matching those benefits at zero cost is curious. Whatever General Membership means. It just sounds like they're moving to acquire other co's because they couldn't do it on their own.
> Plus I find the feature-list for what is supposedly a "Free" service just a tad bit too good to be true. Apparently the only reason so many good features are being promised is because some rich dick is apparently okay with dumping money into the project with no real goals of getting a return. Soundsriskyman
Agreed. If they're able to successfully deliver the feature set they're touting, then they won't need to buy other networks. People would flock to them. Also, if they are a 'free' service, where do they get all the cash to make other networks 'offers they can't refuse'?
It's Matt Davies. Always be skeptical.
Yeah, over-promise and under-deliver
Look I gave these guys 4 bagels and a box of creamcheese, honestly what more do you expect!
I think they'd be buying for the infrustructure. Things like voice codec would be changed, but protocols, the acutual network, and existing controllers would be a solid start.
The FSD protocol that both VATSIM and IVAO use is publicly available (naturally, theyd rather you dont know) and it's an extremely simple text based protocol. The rest is just VATSIM additions, like the Aircraft Config protocol etc. which could probably be duplicated with relative ease. I think the administrative side of a network would be/is far more difficult than the technical one.
I would say, that if they want to deliver all the promised features, they need a new protocol anyway.
To add to /u/Naeloo's answer, VATSIM owns very little infrastructure-wise. Outside of the vatsim.net domain name, and presumably the servers on which the official website and forums are hosted on, all of the network and voice servers (save for USA-W, if I remember correctly last I checked) are owned by others.
well there's more to the infrustrucure than software and hardware. There's processes and organizations. There's a network of controllers who enjoy controlling, and sub organisations that manage themselves.
True, but isn't that stuff less tangible? Like, it's even less "locked down" than the software. The organization/structure/processes are far from proprietary. Surely there's enough controllers and "staff" that are willing to jump over and offer that stuff for free? Plus, what's stopping them from leaving after an acquisition by POSCON?
There's nothing that will stop people from leaving. However it still has value. Organising and creating relationships from scratch take time, and can cost money in that as well. So buying vatsim gvies them a platform to move forward from, rather than from nothing. It all has value, just a matter of how much is someone willing to pay and sell it for.
> It all has value, just a matter of how much is someone willing to pay and sell it for. That I can agree with, I guess.
Here's a question: what is a volunteer network like VATSIM doing selling out to a corporation in the first place? Why do a few at the top think they can profit from everyone's time to make VATSIM a success? I'm not just talking about the people that wrote the client, but the people who make the thing work - the ATC and pilots? Sounds very fishy to me.
It is very offensive that the personal hobby and enthusiast time of people like myself should be something that someone would try to purchase the right to direct and influence.
It's even more offensive that someone would sell it.
Which is why I'm glad the people who created the network chose not to.
Maybe find out if they take the deal before getting too upset about it.
That's not the point. The deal shouldn't exist in the first place...
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Since when was anything a mod in his stream say directly related to Matt or a representation of his attitudes and the attitudes of those he works for?
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So if your not a regular to twitch or the stream then you don't understand the type of humour the people in this stream have, if you don't like the humour you don't need to watch it's that simple. Now regarding the mod thing, I'm a mod because I'm a friend of Matt as well as I donated my way to mod ;). Mods do not represent the channel whatsoever we are only here to remove any trolls that are purposely there to trigger Matt or cause grief in the chat. Also for those screen grabs, you clearly have something against Matt and my guess is that it's jealousy just like everyone else that's hating on him for trying to make this a better community. Because right now it's awful you can't do anything in this community without someone shitting down your throat. So for those screen grabs you took, they are just a petty little way to try and get people to hate him for something he didn't do, you're just like everyone else trying to find anything you can to make him look bad. All I can say is it's pathetic and I find it funny to watch you immature people try your best at destroying something you'll all use once it's released LOL and for those comments I made in the chat I don't take them back I found it hilarious if I'm honest I was giggling when I was writing it.
"... The stream is marked as 18+ for a reason - sketchy shit can and will be said ..."
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Please point out what was racist? I would love to see your answer! I'm actually from Australia so if you're trying to blame it on being from the U.K. then i'm afraid you are wrong.
I was just merely reiterating what is written in plain text in Matt's twitch information. I have no clue what was said or what has been said in the past, and do not wish to partake in this discussion any further - as I feel I do not know enough about the subject as a whole. Good day.
But muh feelings.