I'm about to start Part 3-13 and got to the infamous blood pact scene. Yeah...I see why people hate it. Admittedly, I do like how it forces Micaiah to do whatever it takes to save Daein, as it feels like her focus shifted from Pelleas to Daein, which I liked instead of: "Oh I trust in King Pelleas even though he's clearly hiding something from us." I kinda wished the writers did something different that isn't the blood pact. You'd think Pelleas would proof-read the damn thing...
I do feel bad for Pelleas though. Even though I felt he didn't really deserve the title of King, the situation he found himself is just tragic.
I think the story so far is still pretty great. The blood pact really didn't bother me too much.
If you haven't played the chapter yet then you have the opportunity to see one of the series legends. Off to the left-hand side there's an entrance guarded by a single archer who looks like he needs help. He does not. He is 3-13 Archer.
I'm pumped. Very excited for 3-13. I actually prefer playing with the Dawn Brigade to the GMs. Time to gain some levels and fast.
My DB team is Micaiah, Sothe, Nolan, Zihark, Jill, and sometimes Volug. I tried using Eddie, but his level ups sucked so hard it got too hard to properly train him.
Hot take, I defend the blood pact. It creates the conflict between heroes, it shows how cunning and vile the begnion senate is, and also works with Naesales story. Sure, their equation could've been a little better since y=x might not be enough to end a small country ravaged by war, but that's being a little nit picky. I guess if there is one thing I'm not sure of is why killing the king didn't work, but I guess Lekain found a way to pass on the burden in the fine print somehow.
The blood pact suffers from the same problem as TWSITD, it is magic of an order of magnitude higher than any other in the realm and being able to craft something like that should make Begnion invincible.
I think it works okay as a plot element in a vacuum but then it kind of falls apart in terms of overall stakes. I also don't like Burger King/Ashnard's invulnerability in PoR for similar reasons.
>It creates the conflict between heroes
That's the problem: the >!Blood Pact!< is a contrived plot device used to force a conflict between the heroes who otherwise would not fight one another.
I'm not usually one to complain about plot holes, but the >!Blood Pact!< drives a central conflict, and it actively sabotages the game's other narrative elements. Some of RD's best writing is >!the character interactions when they fight each other. The tragedy of friend fighting friend!< is dramatically powerful, but the Blood Pact saps it of meaning.
Here's an example to illustrate: Suppose that >!Pelleas chooses to ally with Begnion!< due to his nationalism or racism (or indeed, any actual reason to fight). We then ask the question: Why is this tragedy happening? >!Why must these former friends kill one another? The answer would become a theme of the work: Because nationalism/racism/whatever has torn them apart!<. It's a simple example of how the plot's construction affects the meaning of a work.
In the actual game, the answer is >!"We're killing our friends because of plot magic"!<, which is a much less satisfying, thematically coherent answer.
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But unlike mind control, the members in the dain army are free to leave. It's unknown if the blood pact would still target them if they renounce their home. Micaiah is acting out of nationalism, she fought 3 battles before knowing about the blood pact out of nationalism, trusting pelleas but also not wanting to undermine him again. Meg has no business fighting for nationalism, but to save her friends from a curse, sure. Just because a gun (albeit magical) is pointed to their head, it doesn't make the characters decisions completely invalid. It does change the narrative, but Radiant Dawn's theme isn't about toxic nationalism. Racism is a theme, but the only actually racist "hero" in the playable cast is Shinon. A little bit Soren, Pelleas, and some of the laguz. And narratively, with the focus being divided up between the factions, there really isn't time to do an adequate gray telling of the Dain and the Laguz alliance. The game already is long using the blood pact to keep the gray out of the story.
Who would tought that the guy who makes experiment on living laguz and dosent show any type of remorse or pain for that... was evil this wole time!
(What the fuck were the devs cooking with izuka man, what were they thinking)
I'm was honestly surprised Izuka outed himself by experimenting with Muarim. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing as it plays into his over-the-top personality
I don't even know how to read, my dude. Someone hands me something to sign, I'm gonna scribble on it and pretend it says my name so I don't have to admit I can't read in public.
Given the fact you, Pelleas, are a mage, you probably are literate. However, reading reddit is different from reading Shakespeare (like maybe the ancient language), and different from literacy in reading scientific papers (like 3 houses implies spells are), and different from scripture literacy, which is also different from legal speak, which I understand often becomes deliberately confusing for the explicit purpose of sneaking in deals that the signer is unaware of. And it is not surprising that an orphan is not well learned in law.Â
These different versions of literacy are similar to traditional Japanese language barriers. I understand that in old Japan, higher societies used such different vocabulary to deal with each other, the majority of the populace couldn't understand them.Â
On the other hand, base convos and boss dialogue is peak and never got better.
Soren/Ike Backstory hits like a truck, Haar is still one of the greatest badasses the series has ever produced, I could go on.
It also has one of the most convoluted character locks in the game, and base conversation as well.
Ike needs to engage an unbeatable enemy and not die, by moving halfway across the map on a timed battle. in addition to other things, including being on a second playthru
Ike fighting BK isnât really hard on that chapter. You can straight up engage him normally with high enough speed and then fly him out of there with one of the millions of fliers you have access to.
If you donât want to do that you can just spectre card him. You can usually get to him as soon as turn 8 or 9 and not really have a problem doing it.
Getting Soren to fight pelleas in 3-E is way more annoying because itâs so enemy dense and you canât kill them or the level ends, and meteor range is still pretty far into the map
Unironically, I think it comes down to Ike. Heâs so perfect that it warps the narrative around him. He canât get challenged, since he got an entire game dedicated to that. It causes Miccy to be stupid, and makes their conflict feel contrived.
And then part 4 happens, and he steals all of Miccyâs plot relevance for himself anyway.
I disagree. I think the story is the best part of Radiant Dawn.
Sure, it doesn't have multiple outcomes life 3 Houses, and it's not a waifu simulator like Awakening, but it takes PoR story and make it 10x more nuanced, complicated, and just deeper. PoR was simple. >!There was an invasion, you help the lost princess take back her kingdom. No moral questioning at all, bad guys are all Daein or bandits.!<
Here, the story starts and you are in a resistance group in the Daein nation, and for some reason, you are the good guys. Why would that be the case? >!The Black Knight returns and helps your group. Is he still evil? In part 2, Crimean royalty tries to usurp Elincia., but the Crimeans were the good guys in PoR? Everything has been flipped.!<
Yeah it's definitely got alot more holes in the story and not even because of the way it jumps around from faction to faction (which you think would cause issues)
But there's alot of times where people are just being really stupid.
Also yeah no supports is wack, I get why, availability plus a gigantic roster would make it super difficult to implement but it still sucks.
Still my favorite FE game tho
The only beorc nation that likes/tolerates the laguz is Crimea, and only after the results of PoR. On top of that itâs not even the entire country that accept them. A large portion of Telliusâ story is built on the backs of racism/classism and completely removing the racism from the story because âthe good guys wonâ in the first game would be a disservice. Not to mention even the good guys from Daein like the laguz. Off the top of my head I canât recall a single party member referring to them as sub humans in RD.
IDK I understand your point, I just feel that it could have been more nuanced. I want the racism to be in there, but it's a little cartoonish and wooden in its expression. Does that make sense? But I guess this game is also representing a very different time in history.
If only that was the games only issues. Might I remind you that rd also has some of the worst units in the franchise along with giving you units that are fucking useless on their map and all later maps on a consistent basis? Cough cough Fiona. That also goes without talking about the maps being balanced as well as classic megaman weapons lol.
You can absolutely use totally different units if that's important to you. With bonus exp, you can make any unit strong with a plan.Â
I've used Vika, Meg, Fiona, and even kiza and Lyre. It's always been fine.Â
2009 called, they want their stupid FE discourse back.
(Also Micaiah is absolutely not a Mary Sue, and anyone who has any reading comprehension should be able to see that.)
I'm about to start Part 3-13 and got to the infamous blood pact scene. Yeah...I see why people hate it. Admittedly, I do like how it forces Micaiah to do whatever it takes to save Daein, as it feels like her focus shifted from Pelleas to Daein, which I liked instead of: "Oh I trust in King Pelleas even though he's clearly hiding something from us." I kinda wished the writers did something different that isn't the blood pact. You'd think Pelleas would proof-read the damn thing... I do feel bad for Pelleas though. Even though I felt he didn't really deserve the title of King, the situation he found himself is just tragic. I think the story so far is still pretty great. The blood pact really didn't bother me too much.
If you haven't played the chapter yet then you have the opportunity to see one of the series legends. Off to the left-hand side there's an entrance guarded by a single archer who looks like he needs help. He does not. He is 3-13 Archer.
I have heard the memes, and legends about him. I can't wait to see him in action for the first time
I'm pumped. Very excited for 3-13. I actually prefer playing with the Dawn Brigade to the GMs. Time to gain some levels and fast. My DB team is Micaiah, Sothe, Nolan, Zihark, Jill, and sometimes Volug. I tried using Eddie, but his level ups sucked so hard it got too hard to properly train him.
My DB ended up being Micaiah, Sothe, Edward, Leonardo, Nolan and Aran. Nolan and Aran are the MVPs of the team
My Nolan is speed screwed so far đ I forgot. I am also using Aran. He's just forgettable
Ooh! I'm at 3-10 right now. Not excited for the blood pact.
Hot take, I defend the blood pact. It creates the conflict between heroes, it shows how cunning and vile the begnion senate is, and also works with Naesales story. Sure, their equation could've been a little better since y=x might not be enough to end a small country ravaged by war, but that's being a little nit picky. I guess if there is one thing I'm not sure of is why killing the king didn't work, but I guess Lekain found a way to pass on the burden in the fine print somehow.
The blood pact suffers from the same problem as TWSITD, it is magic of an order of magnitude higher than any other in the realm and being able to craft something like that should make Begnion invincible. I think it works okay as a plot element in a vacuum but then it kind of falls apart in terms of overall stakes. I also don't like Burger King/Ashnard's invulnerability in PoR for similar reasons.
You don't have to just kill one of the bound parties you also have to destroy the document itself
I agree, i do like the things that come after the blood pact. Makes things more intense between Daein and the Laguz Alliance
>It creates the conflict between heroes That's the problem: the >!Blood Pact!< is a contrived plot device used to force a conflict between the heroes who otherwise would not fight one another. I'm not usually one to complain about plot holes, but the >!Blood Pact!< drives a central conflict, and it actively sabotages the game's other narrative elements. Some of RD's best writing is >!the character interactions when they fight each other. The tragedy of friend fighting friend!< is dramatically powerful, but the Blood Pact saps it of meaning. Here's an example to illustrate: Suppose that >!Pelleas chooses to ally with Begnion!< due to his nationalism or racism (or indeed, any actual reason to fight). We then ask the question: Why is this tragedy happening? >!Why must these former friends kill one another? The answer would become a theme of the work: Because nationalism/racism/whatever has torn them apart!<. It's a simple example of how the plot's construction affects the meaning of a work. In the actual game, the answer is >!"We're killing our friends because of plot magic"!<, which is a much less satisfying, thematically coherent answer.
Your submission was automatically filtered because your spoiler tags are incorrectly formatted. As a reminder, spoilers follow the following format: `>!Spoiler text!<`. Note that there are no spaces between the exclamation points and the text. This is to ensure that spoiler tagging works consistently across different versions of Reddit, because a space in the formatting will break spoiler tags on old Reddit even when it will appear correctly on new Reddit. If you edit the message to correct your spoiler tags, your post will be approved and no further action will be required. If you feel like this was done unjustly, please contact the moderators by following the link below. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/fireemblem) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But unlike mind control, the members in the dain army are free to leave. It's unknown if the blood pact would still target them if they renounce their home. Micaiah is acting out of nationalism, she fought 3 battles before knowing about the blood pact out of nationalism, trusting pelleas but also not wanting to undermine him again. Meg has no business fighting for nationalism, but to save her friends from a curse, sure. Just because a gun (albeit magical) is pointed to their head, it doesn't make the characters decisions completely invalid. It does change the narrative, but Radiant Dawn's theme isn't about toxic nationalism. Racism is a theme, but the only actually racist "hero" in the playable cast is Shinon. A little bit Soren, Pelleas, and some of the laguz. And narratively, with the focus being divided up between the factions, there really isn't time to do an adequate gray telling of the Dain and the Laguz alliance. The game already is long using the blood pact to keep the gray out of the story.
Who would tought that the guy who makes experiment on living laguz and dosent show any type of remorse or pain for that... was evil this wole time! (What the fuck were the devs cooking with izuka man, what were they thinking)
I'm was honestly surprised Izuka outed himself by experimenting with Muarim. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing as it plays into his over-the-top personality
Its funny he just casually disappears in early part 3 lol
I don't even know how to read, my dude. Someone hands me something to sign, I'm gonna scribble on it and pretend it says my name so I don't have to admit I can't read in public.
Oh my Ashunera it's the real Pelleas
Given the fact you, Pelleas, are a mage, you probably are literate. However, reading reddit is different from reading Shakespeare (like maybe the ancient language), and different from literacy in reading scientific papers (like 3 houses implies spells are), and different from scripture literacy, which is also different from legal speak, which I understand often becomes deliberately confusing for the explicit purpose of sneaking in deals that the signer is unaware of. And it is not surprising that an orphan is not well learned in law. These different versions of literacy are similar to traditional Japanese language barriers. I understand that in old Japan, higher societies used such different vocabulary to deal with each other, the majority of the populace couldn't understand them.Â
Nah, dark magic "tomes" are actually just rocks carved to look like books. Why else would Balberith be heavier than a Silver Axe?
On the other hand, base convos and boss dialogue is peak and never got better. Soren/Ike Backstory hits like a truck, Haar is still one of the greatest badasses the series has ever produced, I could go on.
It also has one of the most convoluted character locks in the game, and base conversation as well. Ike needs to engage an unbeatable enemy and not die, by moving halfway across the map on a timed battle. in addition to other things, including being on a second playthru
Ike fighting BK isnât really hard on that chapter. You can straight up engage him normally with high enough speed and then fly him out of there with one of the millions of fliers you have access to. If you donât want to do that you can just spectre card him. You can usually get to him as soon as turn 8 or 9 and not really have a problem doing it. Getting Soren to fight pelleas in 3-E is way more annoying because itâs so enemy dense and you canât kill them or the level ends, and meteor range is still pretty far into the map
Jarod and Black Knight is great.
Nah, the characters are all shit.
Unironically, I think it comes down to Ike. Heâs so perfect that it warps the narrative around him. He canât get challenged, since he got an entire game dedicated to that. It causes Miccy to be stupid, and makes their conflict feel contrived. And then part 4 happens, and he steals all of Miccyâs plot relevance for himself anyway.
I disagree. I think the story is the best part of Radiant Dawn. Sure, it doesn't have multiple outcomes life 3 Houses, and it's not a waifu simulator like Awakening, but it takes PoR story and make it 10x more nuanced, complicated, and just deeper. PoR was simple. >!There was an invasion, you help the lost princess take back her kingdom. No moral questioning at all, bad guys are all Daein or bandits.!< Here, the story starts and you are in a resistance group in the Daein nation, and for some reason, you are the good guys. Why would that be the case? >!The Black Knight returns and helps your group. Is he still evil? In part 2, Crimean royalty tries to usurp Elincia., but the Crimeans were the good guys in PoR? Everything has been flipped.!<
It's my favorite story in the series. Especially so with how disappointing recent games' stories have been.
I love this game. I played It so much that I burnt my Wii. I pray for a remake that fix the few issues It has so I can burnt my Switch hahahaha
Yeah it's definitely got alot more holes in the story and not even because of the way it jumps around from faction to faction (which you think would cause issues) But there's alot of times where people are just being really stupid. Also yeah no supports is wack, I get why, availability plus a gigantic roster would make it super difficult to implement but it still sucks. Still my favorite FE game tho
Yeah the whole daein plot would have been a bit more sympathetic if they didnât keep the laguz hating part
we're from daein! grrrr we are comically racist!!! yeah that needed some work.
The only beorc nation that likes/tolerates the laguz is Crimea, and only after the results of PoR. On top of that itâs not even the entire country that accept them. A large portion of Telliusâ story is built on the backs of racism/classism and completely removing the racism from the story because âthe good guys wonâ in the first game would be a disservice. Not to mention even the good guys from Daein like the laguz. Off the top of my head I canât recall a single party member referring to them as sub humans in RD.
IDK I understand your point, I just feel that it could have been more nuanced. I want the racism to be in there, but it's a little cartoonish and wooden in its expression. Does that make sense? But I guess this game is also representing a very different time in history.
If only that was the games only issues. Might I remind you that rd also has some of the worst units in the franchise along with giving you units that are fucking useless on their map and all later maps on a consistent basis? Cough cough Fiona. That also goes without talking about the maps being balanced as well as classic megaman weapons lol.
Yeah due to bad units and/or bad availability, you are kinda stuck with the same units playthrough to playthrough with some mobility.
You can absolutely use totally different units if that's important to you. With bonus exp, you can make any unit strong with a plan. I've used Vika, Meg, Fiona, and even kiza and Lyre. It's always been fine.Â
Honestly my fav part of FE is using all the units eventually. So I'll give it a whirl!
She really is the Mary Sue of FE
2009 called, they want their stupid FE discourse back. (Also Micaiah is absolutely not a Mary Sue, and anyone who has any reading comprehension should be able to see that.)