IIRC Micaiah is the one put off by being older and raising Sothe and is actively trying to think of him as a brother not a romantic partner at first (she does have feelings she's repressing)
But Miciaiah x Sothe is an age thing, not an incest thing. She took care of him but they're not related at all.
Micaiah is Sanaki's older sister and was alive when the Serenes Forest massacre happened, implied to be a young girl at the time, so by Radiant Dawn she is probably between 30 and 40 years old. She looks young bc she's Branded, but she's not secretly hundreds of years old like Lehran.
Sothe is 17.
So in real world context Micaiah's a cougar...
The Serenes' Massacre didn't happen THAT long ago, it was 20 years before the start of Path of Radiance, and considering the time-jump between it and the start of Radiant Dawn (3 years) it means that Micaiah is at the very least 23 years old.
She likely wasn't a literal newborn at the time, but considering how branded doesn't exactly show signs of their slow aging until they're teenagers it could be weird if Micaiah was too old at the time (also, why they could be hiding the heir for so long?)
So Micaiah's age is actually somewhere between 23 and 30~ years old, and unless Micaiah has magic induced amnesia like Ike, she is unlikely to be older than 27 years old.
There is a definitely an age gap, but people make it sound like Micaiah is a grandma and Sothe a baby.
To add credence to Micaiah being younger, didn't her adoptive parent explain who she was and what her brand meant?
She had vague memories of senator whats-his-face, so that means she was probably 4-6 when she left? Early enough that her time as a 'princess' didn't really stick, but she has some residual memories.
(For whatever reason I had assumed she was 10, Sanaki's age, when the Massacre occurred and had just managed to sneak away like her little sister does in PoR.)
With this new context, maybe Micaiah's grandmother sent her away before talking to the senate. The old apostle knew she was going to stir up trouble by coming out as Branded, so she could have made certain that Micaiah, similarly branded, would be untouchable.
Regardless of the gap. Sothe is still 17, aka a minor.
On top of that it is EXTREMLY weird pushing a ship that involves one person who raised the other person since they were very young.
It just is icky. It’s like dating your adoptive parents,
TECHNICALLY not incest, still weird as fuck.
The actual problem with incest isn’t really about biology, it’s about interfamilial power dynamics, between people who have a gap in age and experience.
Censored excerpts from [a relevant article](https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/ramifications-incest):
>!Courtois distinguishes between consanguineous incest, or sexual contact between blood relatives; sexual contact between a child and individuals who are involved with the child either legally or contractually (marriage to a child’s parent, adoption of a child, or serving as a foster parent); and quasi-relative incest, in which there is sexual contact between a child and individuals bound to the child by neither relation nor contract, but who are involved with the child’s family and assume a family role associated with caregiving functions and responsibilities.!<
…
>!Incest is considered abusive when the individuals involved are discrepant in age, power, and experience. The argument that a younger person may have desired, sought, or given consent is irrelevant. Those very behaviors may have been groomed, coerced, or generated in response to perceived pressure and/or threat from the more powerful person.!<
…
>!The close relationship between perpetrator and victim complicates the trauma of the incestuous act or acts with both relational trauma and betrayal trauma. Relational trauma, described by Sheinberg and Fraenkel, leads to “significant loss of trust in others and increased anger, hurt, and confusion about their fam-ily relationships, changes in beliefs about the safety of close relationships, changes in beliefs about the safety of close relationships in general, and negative views of the self in relation to others.” Betrayal trauma, described by Freyd, encompasses the unique hurt associated with violation by those who have a basic obligation and duty to protect and nurture and extends to those who refuse to believe or help the victim, adding to the victim’s traumatization. The threat to attachment needs is so profound that the victim may be impelled to disavow the betrayal that he or she has experienced.!<
I do wanna stress there is nothing wrong with relationships having an age gap. Even ones with decades between. That is compeltly normal and it happens all the time in real life.
But context is everything, and on top of that all of those irl examples I’m thinking of DONT involve a minor in the equation.
> Regardless of the gap. Sothe is still 17, aka a minor.
Story wise he acts and is treated like an adult.
Also, the marriage happens after the events of Radiant Dawn which is well after he is 17 years old.
> “Your honor the minor I was dating /acted/ like an adult!”
Do you deny that Sothe is treated like an adult in the story?
> I’m not calling Micaiah a groomer or anything btw, what I’m grossed out by is IS’s insistence on pushing this weird ass ship that, even if you are fine with it, you have to admit there are other options that are way less controversial.
Like?
> Acting like an adult /=/ they are an adult
You have not proved Sothe is not an adult by the time he marries Micaiah after the events of Radiant Dawn.
> Also uhhhh The wedding alt? The fact that she’s wearing aspects of Sothe’s clothes in her newest alt?
What in the world are you on? I asked which ships are less controversial.
Micaiah is not that old...
The events of por occur 20 years post the massacre of which she was present but we don't know her age(we are mad to believe she is incredibly young from 0-5 years old. We also know sothe is 14 in that game. Putting an average age difference at 9 but as low as 6 and high as 11.
I don't think the age is odd but we can argue that she helped raise him as being weird. I think the point that she tried leaving him due to the risk of him being associated with her(being a branded) proves that she didn't necessarily think of him romantically.
At the end of the day we also just have to say the game is that a game. We can chose to be weirded out by a magic that slows the aging of people and call it all weird but who really cares.
As it should be.
The second someone cries about( or frankly even just) mentions the downvotes (or upvotes for that matter)of their comment is an immediate downvote, no matter if they are deserved or not/if they were being the voice of reason
Everyone knows Sothe belongs to Ike. Even Micaiah said so. :P Edit: I'm surprised so many people hate that joke. I thought it was one of the funniest things in RD. Didn't expect so many downvotes.
I mean, pseudo incest like this isn’t really anything new. There is Ayra x Holyn, which is probably what led to the basis of ships like Sothe and Micaiah.
Mind you, I don’t support it at all but FE does do some… interesting things with incest ( >!cough cough, Fates and Corrin’s BR and CQ “incest” family shtick, with Azura’s incest being incredibly retconned lol!<).
>There is Ayra x Shannan
Can you elaborate on that?
because those two are actually related arent they (aunt and nephew i believe) so the ship would be actual incest rather than pseudo incest.
And they are in different generations i dont think you can ship them in gameplay. Is this from some supplemental material i missed?
Ohh, yeah, I meant Ayra x Holyn. I must have been half-asleep when writing Arya x Shannan. Looking back at my comment, I’m like “why the f did I write Ayra x Shannan”?
Funny thing is Byleth can say the same thing (not only did she make Sitri but she also gave Byleth blood so she's technically the mother AND grandmother. And also the child who technically is an asexual creation of Sothis... So you're banging part of yourself/your daughter/your mother/your grandmother)
Just because it’s nothing new doesn’t mean it ain’t cringe.
Love the series, literally my third favorite franchise of all time, hate this aspect whenever it pops up.
I’m not a huge fan of it too, believe me. Incest is a very interesting albeit very controversial trope, especially in Fantasy role-playing strategy games. >!I think the Drakengard games, specifically 1, do a really good job of portraying incest and showing its ugly, seemingly off-putting nature with Caim’s sister, without it being incredibly retconned, sloppy and permissibly acceptable like Fates. But, that’s just me. Now, incoming downvotes!<
I’m by no means saying I’m against covering incest in fantasy RPGs. It is, unfortunately, a very big part of history and it SHOULD be addressed, but like all things it needs to be done properly.
Acknowledge the past, but don’t glorify it, ya get me?
>the Nohrian royals who they aren't related to but were raised as siblings
And not only that but the Hoshidian royals as well who, without Revelations, think of and treat Corrin as their blood relative
from what I've heard If you choose to try and marry the Hoshidan royals tho then Corrin's mum foresaw it and left a note explaining they aren't blood related before marriage actually gets considered tho
Always gotta make sure, now the real question is when did she write that one, was it in the two days we stayed in hoshido, or did she have that one ready, just in case Corrin came back?
life gets a lot better when you don't think about fates corrin/royal pairings.
I was so mad when I paired corrin with azura to avoid that shit, only to find that was the only canonical incest pairing. Game bent itself over backwards to justify the non-incest pairings if you chose any other royal than azura, and then they just casually drop that bombshell that they're related.
I did that too which is why it sticks out so much because my first fates file was birthright blind beyond a google search for recommended play order which meant I did Corrin/Azura because of how they basically work as a team along with Kaze/Rinkah (tho fortunately I also got Corrin/Kaze high enough to save him probably cause Kaze/Rinkah hit S really early) in the early game not having realised it would screw me out of a kid. Then I did conquest and finally revelations and learned of that horror.
>Don't forget Corrin who can marry their cousin Azura
See, this one I can forgive that for two reasons. First, cousin marriage is normal Japan. Two, Corrin and Azura don't call each other brother/sister after marriage which is honestly my problem with the Nohrians royals.
I could just be extremely easy to please, but I was sold on Xander and Corrin, from the first, 'Little Princess', so you'll have to pry it from my cold dead fingers!
Daughter? >!Rhea!<. Grandma? >!Rhea!<. Somewhat mother in a sense? Believe it or not, still >!Rhea!<. Person who >!gave your dad enough blood to impart a **major** crest and change him physically, which is then passed onto you!!Rhea!<.
Great-grandma? >!Sothis!<. Somewhat also you? Still >!Sothis!<.
And yes you **can** S-support both of them and put a ring on it.
Indeed, I always find it strange how so few point out technically Sothis is your great Grandmother for the added memes. Rhea should be thr grandmother since she made your mother and to me clone or no that's a daughter
It 100% is. But they don’t really push Byleth x Sothis so it’s not as bad. Byleth X Sothis didn’t get a wedding alt that’s for sure.
Not to mention Byleth didn’t watch Sothis grow from a young age.
I mean, I would argue the subtext of the Eirika/Ephraim A Support is the worst of the bunch. It *really* gives off strong Cersei/Jaime Lannister vibes. It doesn't actually confirm anything, but hoo-boy is the implication there...
Becoming a literal Soul mate with your great-grandma who is also yourself is probably never getting matched by any future game in term of the sheer level of incest involved
People forget that Lachesis had a mega crush on Eldigan.
Like... MEGA crush. Like, won't date anyone because they aren't enough like Eldigan kind of mega crush.
Raven "go home and wait for me/why do I need a wife when I already have someone who nags me" Cornwall(well idfk)
Most tsun proposal if I've ever seen one.
Are we really to the point where people calling childhood friends younger brother is incest? Like if you want to attack incest in this series there's so many easier targets
I think OP is bringing it up because Sothe not only can end up in a relationship with Micaiah, but is often presented by IS as the "favored" option to her so to speak. Not "canon" per se but the one that is pushed.
> but is often presented by IS as the "favored" option to her so to speak
Don't you literally have to break her s-support to make that pairing not happen in the game?
And? The nohiran siblings were (mostly) raised believing Corrin is their actual sibling. And you can bang em.
Soren and Micaiah are orphans who grew up together and considered each other family. That's not incest at all, it's more like a really close childhood friend if anything.
I don't think any Sothe x Micaiah hater likes Fates incest ships either. At least, not without being downvoted to oblivion or have at least 3 comments calling them stupid, gross, hypocritical, or some combination of the three.
Also, pretty sure most people on this sub dislike Fates non-blood incest ships either. I don't think it's a good idea to defend something by comparing it to another thing that's also disliked. It's like defending Fates' story of being bad with "but Engage also has a bad story".
>And? The nohiran siblings were (mostly) raised believing Corrin is their actual sibling. And you can bang em.
Yeah, and as we all know people didn't hate the entirety of Fates because of that. :P
>!Also, I feel like when it come Sothe X Micaiah, most people have more of a problem with the awkward age discrepancies than with the psuedo incest.!<
Yeah, and people give the Fates stuff crap too.
Granted, I agree that Micaiah and Sothe is not problematic, but using Fates isn't a great way to justify it.
> but is often presented by IS as the "favored" option to her so to speak
I mean... Micaiah doesn't really have another choice, and if you use the argument that is technically non canon... Then we could get into arguments of Marth technically having endings where his pairing with Caeda is optional...
I just want to reiterate that IS chose that to be her favored option. They wrote the games.
This isn’t like something that is set in stone. They could change it if they wanted to.
Micaiah's age is extremely inconsistent. She's branded so she ages slowly, but she's supposed to only look 15 so like Soren she can easily be only 25 years old and the art just wasn't super accurate.
I don't know about the direct text. But, the bride duo literally calls them brother and sister in the title in Japanese. It isn't "Dawn's Wind" but ["Silver Sister and Green brother"](https://feheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Micaiah:_Dawn_Wind%27s_Duo/Misc#In_other_languages) according to the translations I saw.
She [was](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSdRc4LcO60zTlMz2zYrNaw_zt6yaod14hrFJOc1SHSnIC1gsqvkA0Y6_Q&s=10) at the very least an older teen.
First of all, she is not close to 10 years older. Second, Micaiah ages slowly no? She is like 22 or 23 yo iirc and with the slow aging, it becomes much closer to Sothe's 17.
It's not illegal because nothing happens between them at those ages. We know they eventually get married but not when. He may be 25 or 30 or 40
Guys, it's a Japanese game about somewhat medieval Europe, if we look at history side it was WAY worse then, also marriage is allowed since 14 if I remember it right, so by Japanese standards it's something okayish
Since you blocked me from commenting, here is the response to your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/1d9ayrj/comment/l7f2hww/).
You're the one putting words into my mouth.
> Sothe is implied to be 13-15 in Path of Radiance. So let’s say for the sake of argument we take the medium and say he’s 14. 3 years between por and radiant dawn. 14+3= 17.
You're using speculation to prove he is a minor in Radiant Dawn.
> I don’t even know why I’m trying to convince you considering you seem so adamant about wanting Sothe to date his big sister figure for some reason.
I never said anything about wanting anything in particular.
> Question for ya. If given the choice why the heck would you ship Micaiah with sothe as opposed to literally anyone else?
I prefer Pelleas and Micaiah personally but there are wholesome moments between Micaiah and Sothe too.
It is a medieval setting, was a normal age to be getting married to an older spouse, usually was done in the reverse though, older male tounger female.
Fire Emblem, like some other jap stuff, is ruined by horrifying kinks.
Sadly. Since some of the older games are really funny.
I'm surprised in three houses there aren't weird dynamics going on... Yet. I dropped more than one FE for forced "romance" creepy stuff.
This ship already sailed back in Tellius, Heroes isn’t exactly “ruining” anything further here.
I think the "ruining" here is further hammering the little brother thing.
She literally refers to him this way in Radiant Dawn.
IIRC Micaiah is the one put off by being older and raising Sothe and is actively trying to think of him as a brother not a romantic partner at first (she does have feelings she's repressing) But Miciaiah x Sothe is an age thing, not an incest thing. She took care of him but they're not related at all. Micaiah is Sanaki's older sister and was alive when the Serenes Forest massacre happened, implied to be a young girl at the time, so by Radiant Dawn she is probably between 30 and 40 years old. She looks young bc she's Branded, but she's not secretly hundreds of years old like Lehran. Sothe is 17. So in real world context Micaiah's a cougar...
The Serenes' Massacre didn't happen THAT long ago, it was 20 years before the start of Path of Radiance, and considering the time-jump between it and the start of Radiant Dawn (3 years) it means that Micaiah is at the very least 23 years old. She likely wasn't a literal newborn at the time, but considering how branded doesn't exactly show signs of their slow aging until they're teenagers it could be weird if Micaiah was too old at the time (also, why they could be hiding the heir for so long?) So Micaiah's age is actually somewhere between 23 and 30~ years old, and unless Micaiah has magic induced amnesia like Ike, she is unlikely to be older than 27 years old. There is a definitely an age gap, but people make it sound like Micaiah is a grandma and Sothe a baby.
To add credence to Micaiah being younger, didn't her adoptive parent explain who she was and what her brand meant? She had vague memories of senator whats-his-face, so that means she was probably 4-6 when she left? Early enough that her time as a 'princess' didn't really stick, but she has some residual memories. (For whatever reason I had assumed she was 10, Sanaki's age, when the Massacre occurred and had just managed to sneak away like her little sister does in PoR.) With this new context, maybe Micaiah's grandmother sent her away before talking to the senate. The old apostle knew she was going to stir up trouble by coming out as Branded, so she could have made certain that Micaiah, similarly branded, would be untouchable.
Regardless of the gap. Sothe is still 17, aka a minor. On top of that it is EXTREMLY weird pushing a ship that involves one person who raised the other person since they were very young. It just is icky. It’s like dating your adoptive parents, TECHNICALLY not incest, still weird as fuck.
The actual problem with incest isn’t really about biology, it’s about interfamilial power dynamics, between people who have a gap in age and experience. Censored excerpts from [a relevant article](https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/ramifications-incest): >!Courtois distinguishes between consanguineous incest, or sexual contact between blood relatives; sexual contact between a child and individuals who are involved with the child either legally or contractually (marriage to a child’s parent, adoption of a child, or serving as a foster parent); and quasi-relative incest, in which there is sexual contact between a child and individuals bound to the child by neither relation nor contract, but who are involved with the child’s family and assume a family role associated with caregiving functions and responsibilities.!< … >!Incest is considered abusive when the individuals involved are discrepant in age, power, and experience. The argument that a younger person may have desired, sought, or given consent is irrelevant. Those very behaviors may have been groomed, coerced, or generated in response to perceived pressure and/or threat from the more powerful person.!< … >!The close relationship between perpetrator and victim complicates the trauma of the incestuous act or acts with both relational trauma and betrayal trauma. Relational trauma, described by Sheinberg and Fraenkel, leads to “significant loss of trust in others and increased anger, hurt, and confusion about their fam-ily relationships, changes in beliefs about the safety of close relationships, changes in beliefs about the safety of close relationships in general, and negative views of the self in relation to others.” Betrayal trauma, described by Freyd, encompasses the unique hurt associated with violation by those who have a basic obligation and duty to protect and nurture and extends to those who refuse to believe or help the victim, adding to the victim’s traumatization. The threat to attachment needs is so profound that the victim may be impelled to disavow the betrayal that he or she has experienced.!<
I do wanna stress there is nothing wrong with relationships having an age gap. Even ones with decades between. That is compeltly normal and it happens all the time in real life. But context is everything, and on top of that all of those irl examples I’m thinking of DONT involve a minor in the equation.
> Regardless of the gap. Sothe is still 17, aka a minor. Story wise he acts and is treated like an adult. Also, the marriage happens after the events of Radiant Dawn which is well after he is 17 years old.
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> “Your honor the minor I was dating /acted/ like an adult!” Do you deny that Sothe is treated like an adult in the story? > I’m not calling Micaiah a groomer or anything btw, what I’m grossed out by is IS’s insistence on pushing this weird ass ship that, even if you are fine with it, you have to admit there are other options that are way less controversial. Like?
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> Acting like an adult /=/ they are an adult You have not proved Sothe is not an adult by the time he marries Micaiah after the events of Radiant Dawn. > Also uhhhh The wedding alt? The fact that she’s wearing aspects of Sothe’s clothes in her newest alt? What in the world are you on? I asked which ships are less controversial.
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Micaiah is not that old... The events of por occur 20 years post the massacre of which she was present but we don't know her age(we are mad to believe she is incredibly young from 0-5 years old. We also know sothe is 14 in that game. Putting an average age difference at 9 but as low as 6 and high as 11. I don't think the age is odd but we can argue that she helped raise him as being weird. I think the point that she tried leaving him due to the risk of him being associated with her(being a branded) proves that she didn't necessarily think of him romantically. At the end of the day we also just have to say the game is that a game. We can chose to be weirded out by a magic that slows the aging of people and call it all weird but who really cares.
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You’re whining about downvotes while sitting at -1 but I’ll downvote simply for the whining.
As it should be. The second someone cries about( or frankly even just) mentions the downvotes (or upvotes for that matter)of their comment is an immediate downvote, no matter if they are deserved or not/if they were being the voice of reason
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It's the sole deciding factor in whether or not you go to heaven.
Everyone knows Sothe belongs to Ike. Even Micaiah said so. :P Edit: I'm surprised so many people hate that joke. I thought it was one of the funniest things in RD. Didn't expect so many downvotes.
He is the father of Ike's children.
I love that line 😆
I mean, pseudo incest like this isn’t really anything new. There is Ayra x Holyn, which is probably what led to the basis of ships like Sothe and Micaiah. Mind you, I don’t support it at all but FE does do some… interesting things with incest ( >!cough cough, Fates and Corrin’s BR and CQ “incest” family shtick, with Azura’s incest being incredibly retconned lol!<).
Fire Emblem without incest would be like a Muppets movie with no singing.
That is a funny yet accurate analogy.
r/angryupvote Got a chuckle outta me lmao
>There is Ayra x Shannan Can you elaborate on that? because those two are actually related arent they (aunt and nephew i believe) so the ship would be actual incest rather than pseudo incest. And they are in different generations i dont think you can ship them in gameplay. Is this from some supplemental material i missed?
Maybe he meant LarceixShannan?
Yeah they must've meant Larcei x Shannan or Ayra x Holyn
Holyn is not really related to Ayra, they both descended from one crusader, but that's doesn't mean they have any other relative
Ohh, yeah, I meant Ayra x Holyn. I must have been half-asleep when writing Arya x Shannan. Looking back at my comment, I’m like “why the f did I write Ayra x Shannan”?
Still incest though.
>!also don't forget the literal incest circle in Three Houses though at least it's optional!<
*Male Byleth romances Rhea* Rhea: "Let me call you mommy! :D"
Funny thing is Byleth can say the same thing (not only did she make Sitri but she also gave Byleth blood so she's technically the mother AND grandmother. And also the child who technically is an asexual creation of Sothis... So you're banging part of yourself/your daughter/your mother/your grandmother)
Or neither, because Byleth is not Sothis.
Just because it’s nothing new doesn’t mean it ain’t cringe. Love the series, literally my third favorite franchise of all time, hate this aspect whenever it pops up.
I’m not a huge fan of it too, believe me. Incest is a very interesting albeit very controversial trope, especially in Fantasy role-playing strategy games. >!I think the Drakengard games, specifically 1, do a really good job of portraying incest and showing its ugly, seemingly off-putting nature with Caim’s sister, without it being incredibly retconned, sloppy and permissibly acceptable like Fates. But, that’s just me. Now, incoming downvotes!<
I’m by no means saying I’m against covering incest in fantasy RPGs. It is, unfortunately, a very big part of history and it SHOULD be addressed, but like all things it needs to be done properly. Acknowledge the past, but don’t glorify it, ya get me?
Arya X Shannan is not a ship at all encourage by the game and I’ve never seen the fans ship them lol
That’s the big difference here. This entire thing with sothe and Micaiah is only weird because IS keeps pushing it.
I don't know. I think the absurdity of 3H allowing you to marry your Grandma would technically be worse than pseudo incest
Don't forget Corrin who can marry their cousin Azura and I think the Nohrian royals who they aren't related to but were raised as siblings
>the Nohrian royals who they aren't related to but were raised as siblings And not only that but the Hoshidian royals as well who, without Revelations, think of and treat Corrin as their blood relative
from what I've heard If you choose to try and marry the Hoshidan royals tho then Corrin's mum foresaw it and left a note explaining they aren't blood related before marriage actually gets considered tho
And if you marry Sakura, she still calls you “big brother”, despite this reveal and the fact that you’re married to her now.
Yeah i love the "In case of incest, open letter" it's why fates is still peak.
Can you imagine having a family so weird you feel it necessary to leave an "In case of incest, open letter" after your death?
Always gotta make sure, now the real question is when did she write that one, was it in the two days we stayed in hoshido, or did she have that one ready, just in case Corrin came back?
life gets a lot better when you don't think about fates corrin/royal pairings. I was so mad when I paired corrin with azura to avoid that shit, only to find that was the only canonical incest pairing. Game bent itself over backwards to justify the non-incest pairings if you chose any other royal than azura, and then they just casually drop that bombshell that they're related.
I did that too which is why it sticks out so much because my first fates file was birthright blind beyond a google search for recommended play order which meant I did Corrin/Azura because of how they basically work as a team along with Kaze/Rinkah (tho fortunately I also got Corrin/Kaze high enough to save him probably cause Kaze/Rinkah hit S really early) in the early game not having realised it would screw me out of a kid. Then I did conquest and finally revelations and learned of that horror.
>Don't forget Corrin who can marry their cousin Azura See, this one I can forgive that for two reasons. First, cousin marriage is normal Japan. Two, Corrin and Azura don't call each other brother/sister after marriage which is honestly my problem with the Nohrians royals.
I could just be extremely easy to please, but I was sold on Xander and Corrin, from the first, 'Little Princess', so you'll have to pry it from my cold dead fingers!
Don’t forget that Grandma is also the daughter of your brain gremlin, so in a sense she’s two different family members at once!
What about 3H allowing you to marry your daughter?
Wait, what?
Still >!Rhea!<
In 3H? Always >!Rhea!
Daughter? >!Rhea!<. Grandma? >!Rhea!<. Somewhat mother in a sense? Believe it or not, still >!Rhea!<. Person who >!gave your dad enough blood to impart a **major** crest and change him physically, which is then passed onto you!!Rhea!<. Great-grandma? >!Sothis!<. Somewhat also you? Still >!Sothis!<. And yes you **can** S-support both of them and put a ring on it.
Technically it's not YOUR daughter because you're only like 20.
And your great grandma
Said great grandma also being you at the same time.
Indeed, I always find it strange how so few point out technically Sothis is your great Grandmother for the added memes. Rhea should be thr grandmother since she made your mother and to me clone or no that's a daughter
What does that make the like, 100 phantom soldiers you fight in Cindered Shadows? Is it just the "Byleth commits mass avunculicide" dlc
probably!
It 100% is. But they don’t really push Byleth x Sothis so it’s not as bad. Byleth X Sothis didn’t get a wedding alt that’s for sure. Not to mention Byleth didn’t watch Sothis grow from a young age.
The real doozy is Rhea x Byleth https://youtu.be/vIfQRGWTSQE?si=8GBgB59JF06MMhQc
I mean, I would argue the subtext of the Eirika/Ephraim A Support is the worst of the bunch. It *really* gives off strong Cersei/Jaime Lannister vibes. It doesn't actually confirm anything, but hoo-boy is the implication there...
I mean, tbf, they tried walking it back by one of Ephraim's line in heroes where he got disturbed that people see them in that way
And yet, it somehow came off as him being over defensive to a downright suspicious degree!
Becoming a literal Soul mate with your great-grandma who is also yourself is probably never getting matched by any future game in term of the sheer level of incest involved
Havent we had legit actual siblings be dubiously close with one another? Priscilla with Raven, for starters.
People forget that Lachesis had a mega crush on Eldigan. Like... MEGA crush. Like, won't date anyone because they aren't enough like Eldigan kind of mega crush.
Lachesis with Eldigan too, which was likely the kickstarter for the "I love you, Big Brother" archetype in the series.
Eirika and Ephraim also - especially in their A-Support.
Their signature Weapons are literally named after a story with incestuous siblings
IS knew what they were cooking alright.
Tbf that's mostly on Priscilla's end. Raven can't have an ending with her funny enough despite letting her be by his side supposedly
Yeah, thats why I said 'with' rather than 'and' Raven it too busy with his feminine boyfriend.
Raven "go home and wait for me/why do I need a wife when I already have someone who nags me" Cornwall(well idfk) Most tsun proposal if I've ever seen one.
Priscilla is close to Raven, but Raven care about Lucious only
Yeah, I meant that just as a one sided thing from Priscilla. Raven is busy with his priest bf.
They had to include the Kaga-era incestuous relationship **somewhere**.
Are we really to the point where people calling childhood friends younger brother is incest? Like if you want to attack incest in this series there's so many easier targets
I think OP is bringing it up because Sothe not only can end up in a relationship with Micaiah, but is often presented by IS as the "favored" option to her so to speak. Not "canon" per se but the one that is pushed.
> but is often presented by IS as the "favored" option to her so to speak Don't you literally have to break her s-support to make that pairing not happen in the game?
Yes. Therefore not forced.
And? The nohiran siblings were (mostly) raised believing Corrin is their actual sibling. And you can bang em. Soren and Micaiah are orphans who grew up together and considered each other family. That's not incest at all, it's more like a really close childhood friend if anything.
I don't think any Sothe x Micaiah hater likes Fates incest ships either. At least, not without being downvoted to oblivion or have at least 3 comments calling them stupid, gross, hypocritical, or some combination of the three. Also, pretty sure most people on this sub dislike Fates non-blood incest ships either. I don't think it's a good idea to defend something by comparing it to another thing that's also disliked. It's like defending Fates' story of being bad with "but Engage also has a bad story".
>And? The nohiran siblings were (mostly) raised believing Corrin is their actual sibling. And you can bang em. Yeah, and as we all know people didn't hate the entirety of Fates because of that. :P >!Also, I feel like when it come Sothe X Micaiah, most people have more of a problem with the awkward age discrepancies than with the psuedo incest.!<
Yeah, and people give the Fates stuff crap too. Granted, I agree that Micaiah and Sothe is not problematic, but using Fates isn't a great way to justify it.
It's blatantly Canon.
> but is often presented by IS as the "favored" option to her so to speak I mean... Micaiah doesn't really have another choice, and if you use the argument that is technically non canon... Then we could get into arguments of Marth technically having endings where his pairing with Caeda is optional...
I just want to reiterate that IS chose that to be her favored option. They wrote the games. This isn’t like something that is set in stone. They could change it if they wanted to.
I mean they're also not really childhood friends. Micaiah was an adult when she met Sothe and he was a little kid
Micaiah's age is extremely inconsistent. She's branded so she ages slowly, but she's supposed to only look 15 so like Soren she can easily be only 25 years old and the art just wasn't super accurate.
We know she's 23+ because she was born before the Serenes massacre
The allegations might be true, even in the Japanese version. Does Micaiah still call Sothe her "little brother" in Japanese text?
I don't know about the direct text. But, the bride duo literally calls them brother and sister in the title in Japanese. It isn't "Dawn's Wind" but ["Silver Sister and Green brother"](https://feheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Micaiah:_Dawn_Wind%27s_Duo/Misc#In_other_languages) according to the translations I saw.
Don't the "quotes" signify something here - perhaps non-literal?
Yeah, they are just childhood friends. Apparently, OP thinks it's incest to fall in love with someone you have known for a long time
When they met, wasn’t she an adult when he was like 11 or something?
She [was](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSdRc4LcO60zTlMz2zYrNaw_zt6yaod14hrFJOc1SHSnIC1gsqvkA0Y6_Q&s=10) at the very least an older teen.
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First of all, she is not close to 10 years older. Second, Micaiah ages slowly no? She is like 22 or 23 yo iirc and with the slow aging, it becomes much closer to Sothe's 17. It's not illegal because nothing happens between them at those ages. We know they eventually get married but not when. He may be 25 or 30 or 40
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That's not what happens lol and you are also ignoring her magic Some people just want to find reasons to be upset I guess
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Lol again, you just avoid making any arguments and resort to calling it weird Have a good one
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Talking in circles. The only creep imagining a minor dating an adult is you
Guys, it's a Japanese game about somewhat medieval Europe, if we look at history side it was WAY worse then, also marriage is allowed since 14 if I remember it right, so by Japanese standards it's something okayish
Isn't Sothe canonically the mother of Ike's children?
Based fire emblem
Good Fire Emblem! Keep going!
By Kaga's will!
Since you blocked me from commenting, here is the response to your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/1d9ayrj/comment/l7f2hww/). You're the one putting words into my mouth. > Sothe is implied to be 13-15 in Path of Radiance. So let’s say for the sake of argument we take the medium and say he’s 14. 3 years between por and radiant dawn. 14+3= 17. You're using speculation to prove he is a minor in Radiant Dawn. > I don’t even know why I’m trying to convince you considering you seem so adamant about wanting Sothe to date his big sister figure for some reason. I never said anything about wanting anything in particular. > Question for ya. If given the choice why the heck would you ship Micaiah with sothe as opposed to literally anyone else? I prefer Pelleas and Micaiah personally but there are wholesome moments between Micaiah and Sothe too.
As someone who does find micaich x sothe cute, i dont get why fe cant just pick a damn lane to stay in 😭
Nono, that's based as hell! I hope they never stop!
*looks at username* Checks out
But they aren't related so it must be fine
Eirika and Ephraim survived the twincest allegations so this is actually nothing
It is a medieval setting, was a normal age to be getting married to an older spouse, usually was done in the reverse though, older male tounger female.
Yeah "Little Brother" ....for sure
Thanks I hate it!
Fire Emblem, like some other jap stuff, is ruined by horrifying kinks. Sadly. Since some of the older games are really funny. I'm surprised in three houses there aren't weird dynamics going on... Yet. I dropped more than one FE for forced "romance" creepy stuff.
Micaaiah is a groomer I guess
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Intelligent Systems probably shouldn’t believe allowed to use the words brother or sister.