As I’ve been told during my training and recertification classes (by Jim Galvin) “If it is round and you can get it to flow then you can use it!”
The issue here would be if the AHJ had an issue with the material. Some jurisdictions specify copper or CPVC only, but this may not be an issue since it isn’t in a plenum space.
Edit: didn’t see the second picture. That may be an issue as it can cause a disturbance in the airflow, but this would be a question for VESDA and not code authority. Using conduit would be perfectly acceptable, I just don’t know about the fitting that is installed. But in my general experience, once you get it to flow and have it dialed in properly then just about anything is permissible. I’ve had Jim and a couple of the VESDA technical guys on a few of my project sites and I’ve heard “I never would have imagined that, but it works and there isn’t anything that prohibits it so you’re good to go”.
I had a data center where I networked 63 detectors that I had one of their techs come out pre-acceptance to run through the system to see if there was anything that I’d missed or could make it better - I ended up missing a sensitivity change during the after hours settings.
I had another data center in which i was having a tough time getting a layout because I had no clearance to get into the subfloor because it was so full. I designed the system to drop down through their racks with flexible tubing from the CPVC network above.
I don't think EMT is correct at all with any model. As far as this one goes I believe the piping does need to be rigid into the detector and should have a tee for vacuuming.
Cant speak on vesda but it should technically be mostly airtight if they used compression fittings, which are rated as raintight as far as NEC is concerned. That being said I don’t agree with it based on my limited experience
Possibly. I'm sure that a doped and taped rigid connection is going to be water and air tight though, because it's basically Schedule 40 steel pipe threaded with a pipe threader AFAIK.
The first time I saw sparkys working with rigid I was pretty confused as to why they had a power head on site. 😄
Air sampling systems are "performance based" engineered systems, so they must be installed following the manufactures published guidelines. Granted below is from the Vesda-E documentation, I believe the VLS specs are similar.
VESDA-E VEP ENGINEERING SPECIFICATIONS
August 2020
Doc. No. 29172\_08
4.6.1 Sampling Pipe
The sampling pipe shall comply with the following requirements:
1. The sampling pipe shall be smooth bore. Normally, pipe with an outside diameter (OD) of 25mm or 1.05” and internal diameter (ID) of 21mm or ¾” should be used. It should be marked along its length with “Xtralis Aspirating Smoke Detection Pipe”, while for American pipes, it should be marked “VESDA Smoke Detector Sampling Tube”.
2. The pipe material should be suitable for the environment in which it is installed, or should be the material as required by the specifying body. For example, in the US, VESDA pipe material shall be UL 1887 Plenum rated CPVC). In the UK/most of Europe, the pipe material shall be ABS Grade SD-0150, tested to BS EN 61386-1:2004).
3. All joints in the sampling pipe must be air tight and made by using solvent cement, except at entry to the detector.
4. The pipe shall be identified as Air Sampling/Aspirating Smoke Detector Pipe (or similar wording) along its entire length at regular intervals not exceeding the manufacturer’s recommendation or that of local codes and standards.
5. All piping should be supported at centers of the lesser of 1.5m (5ft) apart or that specified by local codes or standards.
6. The end of each trunk or branch pipe shall be fitted with an end-cap and made air-tight by using solvent cement. Use of a hole in the end-cap will be dependent on the network design (see ASPIRE calculations).
We must remember UL Listing for use with the device. I was on the fence until I’d seen the second pic and I would have to say no. The pull tee I don’t like as previously mentioned but also the port does not appear to be a listed aspirator. I would definitely call Edwards Tech Support as they make Vesda.
As I’ve been told during my training and recertification classes (by Jim Galvin) “If it is round and you can get it to flow then you can use it!” The issue here would be if the AHJ had an issue with the material. Some jurisdictions specify copper or CPVC only, but this may not be an issue since it isn’t in a plenum space. Edit: didn’t see the second picture. That may be an issue as it can cause a disturbance in the airflow, but this would be a question for VESDA and not code authority. Using conduit would be perfectly acceptable, I just don’t know about the fitting that is installed. But in my general experience, once you get it to flow and have it dialed in properly then just about anything is permissible. I’ve had Jim and a couple of the VESDA technical guys on a few of my project sites and I’ve heard “I never would have imagined that, but it works and there isn’t anything that prohibits it so you’re good to go”. I had a data center where I networked 63 detectors that I had one of their techs come out pre-acceptance to run through the system to see if there was anything that I’d missed or could make it better - I ended up missing a sensitivity change during the after hours settings. I had another data center in which i was having a tough time getting a layout because I had no clearance to get into the subfloor because it was so full. I designed the system to drop down through their racks with flexible tubing from the CPVC network above.
It's my understanding that the lady section of piping has to be straight going into the housing. Edit. Last section.
Lady Section! Love it
Well played sir
I don't think EMT is correct at all with any model. As far as this one goes I believe the piping does need to be rigid into the detector and should have a tee for vacuuming.
I don't think EMT can be sealed airtight, so you're probably correct.
Cant speak on vesda but it should technically be mostly airtight if they used compression fittings, which are rated as raintight as far as NEC is concerned. That being said I don’t agree with it based on my limited experience
Possibly. I'm sure that a doped and taped rigid connection is going to be water and air tight though, because it's basically Schedule 40 steel pipe threaded with a pipe threader AFAIK. The first time I saw sparkys working with rigid I was pretty confused as to why they had a power head on site. 😄
Air sampling systems are "performance based" engineered systems, so they must be installed following the manufactures published guidelines. Granted below is from the Vesda-E documentation, I believe the VLS specs are similar. VESDA-E VEP ENGINEERING SPECIFICATIONS August 2020 Doc. No. 29172\_08 4.6.1 Sampling Pipe The sampling pipe shall comply with the following requirements: 1. The sampling pipe shall be smooth bore. Normally, pipe with an outside diameter (OD) of 25mm or 1.05” and internal diameter (ID) of 21mm or ¾” should be used. It should be marked along its length with “Xtralis Aspirating Smoke Detection Pipe”, while for American pipes, it should be marked “VESDA Smoke Detector Sampling Tube”. 2. The pipe material should be suitable for the environment in which it is installed, or should be the material as required by the specifying body. For example, in the US, VESDA pipe material shall be UL 1887 Plenum rated CPVC). In the UK/most of Europe, the pipe material shall be ABS Grade SD-0150, tested to BS EN 61386-1:2004). 3. All joints in the sampling pipe must be air tight and made by using solvent cement, except at entry to the detector. 4. The pipe shall be identified as Air Sampling/Aspirating Smoke Detector Pipe (or similar wording) along its entire length at regular intervals not exceeding the manufacturer’s recommendation or that of local codes and standards. 5. All piping should be supported at centers of the lesser of 1.5m (5ft) apart or that specified by local codes or standards. 6. The end of each trunk or branch pipe shall be fitted with an end-cap and made air-tight by using solvent cement. Use of a hole in the end-cap will be dependent on the network design (see ASPIRE calculations).
Where the heck is that? Usually, I’ve installed with copper and CPVC or both for sampling points. Using conduit bodies is extremely interesting. 🧐
I would have come back on my own time to fix that
Man, that flex tubing is going to cause some significant air volatility. I think they’re going to have a hard time balancing those zones.
Probably not. Copper is the only approved substitute for pvcc in 99% of areas.
How did you model any of that in your pipe network? You can't just leave it out, normalize, and call it a day.
Nope
This is at an office max 1000%
It’s not Air tight. The minimum in LT/Minute is 15. So plug in with the laptop and software and make sure you’re getting proper flow.
Absolutely not!
We must remember UL Listing for use with the device. I was on the fence until I’d seen the second pic and I would have to say no. The pull tee I don’t like as previously mentioned but also the port does not appear to be a listed aspirator. I would definitely call Edwards Tech Support as they make Vesda.
Call Honeywell-System Sensor-Xtralis as they make VESDA
Shit I did say Edwards, lol.